It’s logical extrapolation. Gods made of magic, Dragons eat magic, ergo: dragons eat gods. Can you think of a better reason for the gods making themselves scarce?
Dude, I eat cows. It doesn’t mean I could kill and eat a rhino with my bare hands, whole. Your logic is flawed.
…can’t take down anyone 1v1 in spvp and even in a support role…
Pet issues aside, of which there are many, I’m not sure what class you’re playing because I’m awesome in 1v1 sPVP.
Well…..
If walls and gates are up, there is supposed to be now way into an enemy fortification. Using “guard” bugs your pet and allows him in.
This isn’t “using tools” at your disposal. It’s simply exploiting an issue that hasn’t been resolved.
Good tip though on the guard + rescue. This accounts for a lot of mysteries in WvW :j
Given that I can fall off a cliff and survive but sometimes my hawk will die… I think Anet can give us this one.
I like how you wait until opponents are in melee and then hit vines. It catches them off guard. I’ll have to try that tactic.
I love doing that, if I’m running a trap build (without targeted traps, which I only use if I’m zerging) I’ll wait till they are in melee range, hit vines and then drop a spike and fire trap on them, then hit either Protect Me or Lightning Reflexes if I’m in trouble, depending on my build.
Timed right even those that are quick to get out of the vines will take a heap of damage.
an already weak pvp class…
lol.
You’re walking away? Good. Finally, we, the people who realize that the class is bad and keeps on getting worse, can continue our discussions without you.
Yeah right, despite the fact that we all end up playing the same servers, T1 and T2 in my case, we all play the same players in sPVP and we all play the same players in tPVP it’s the people that think the class is bad that are right, not those that are perfectly capable of performing well with the class.
Don’t even get me started on how every single forum in this game has the same posts saying the same things, “<insert class here> is bad”, from the same sorts of players. There are issues with rangers that do need looking at, pets and a limited number of builds are just two, but your problems with rangers go far deeper than class balance.
But no no, you’ve played for 100s of hours. It couldn’t possibly just be you are bad.
I dunno if it’s just been F2 with me, I’m no ranger hater but something is difficulty not feeling right. It was like my hawk had hit its head or something, I kept thinking, where the hell is my pet, why is my pet not attacking.
I kept checking to see if attack or passive was on when a thief was attacking me in sPVP
Same here. Noticed it after patch.
TU is godly for some builds if its used correctly, ie proactively. You use it the moment someone looks at you, and if you’re still in combat when it comes up again, use it again. You don’t wait for things to go bad, use TU correctly with the right build and things won’t turn bad in the first place.
I like how TC has given a superior attitude to servers they have beat in the past, but now that they get it….not so fun.
SoR gamed the system, it has nothing to do with winning or losing.
T1 servers want SoR in T1, SoR should be in T1 and some on SoR gamed the system.
You wouldn’t be faring any better if BG was in T2 this week anyways. I don’t get why you folks keep railing on this. Without that third competitive server (sorry SBI), you were going to get beat this week if it was SoR or BG. Drop the act already on this.
Please note the part where I said, it has nothing to do with winning or losing.
Drop the act where you pretend that gaming the system shouldn’t make a server gain justified hate.
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Not as good as the thief sword movement skill (unsurprisingly) but still good once you get used to it. In pvp it is very helpful for getting out of a jam. Trigger it to jump back, turn around and double click your screen to clear target then trigger the skill again to leap far forward (away from enemies). Use lightning reflexes before or after this and you should be setting up a good escape.
:O OMG, I never knew you could double click screen to cancel target. I always press Escape. This will make my life so much easier, thanks Yasha!
Yeah, it makes the skill very useful. I’ve mapped a key on my Noso keypad as esc so it’s easier to clear my target and make my get away when I need to. Once you get the hang of it it becomes a far better skill than the GS can offer.
I like how TC has given a superior attitude to servers they have beat in the past, but now that they get it….not so fun.
SoR gamed the system, it has nothing to do with winning or losing.
T1 servers want SoR in T1, SoR should be in T1 and some on SoR gamed the system.
What he said isn’t false. Lots of people on this forum say stuff such as “i destroy stealth thieves bla bla bla” but this is all lies or they’re killing a theif that is already being attacked by many other players. You need to be new to the game/new to a thief to lose against a ranger on one. Thief has counters to everything a ranger can do, ranger can’t even do anything to immobilize lol. There’s not point of even dualing a thief on a ranger, reroll to a mes or d/d ele and then see sup.
Blah blah, the only thief that can kill me is the one that uses culling over and over.
It’s basically clear that people simply want to play ranger the same as they play other classes and then want the class changing when they can’t make it work for them.
Meh, I don’t use the HoM pets since their stats are inferior. The only time I’ve use it is for armour skins – if I pick up something I don’t like, I can often find something I prefer in the HoM. Did that with my charr med armour yesterday.
Double raven blind and burst makes the ravens one of the best pets in the game. The only reason I run hawk and eagle is because I prefer the faster cooldowns.
in pvp you are usually comparing a glass power thief to a condi trap ranger.
of course the thief will do more power dmg, it’s what he’s specced for. it’s like complaining that a power thief’s bleeds can’t compare with traps.
if you want to test actual ranged power numbers, run 20/25/20/0/5 with berserkers & QZ. you say thief can do 12k with 3 shortbow attacks, ranger can do 12k with 1 longbow attack that tracks stealth & pierces targets. full power barrage is 1.2k crits on light armor ( ranger equiv of a power well ). and shortbow isn’t as bursty but very high pressure in a power spec.
while line aoe isn’t quite as strong as true aoe, it is still quite strong in teamfights & against bodyblock classes ( thieves guild, mesmer, ranger, necro ).
icing on the cake is that yes, pets are ranged dps. if you really want to compare ranged power dmg, ranger can win easily. but thief has stronger utility.
No I am comparing glass canon to glass canon. QZ is a CD, thief doesn’t need to blow a CD or use a special class mechanic (traited BM) to do good damage from range. In fact, if my thief is pure class canon he will do more than the 9-12k damage I mentioned, and have much, much more survivability than a glass canon ranger. Note that thief also has a quickness CD and that rapid fire burst is pretty easy to avoid and has a CD. Also note that shortbow 1 with QZ does just as much or more damage than long-bow. Indeed lb is probably the worst ranger weapon imo.
Please note that if you don’t like it, go play your thief or roll a warrior. Honestly, that is the answer to just about all the whines we have to put up with here on this forum.
I’ll carry on killing thieves and warriors.
Until you play a class without that lunge, you don’t know how bloody good it actually is.
I’d be super POed if they removed it from Sword.
Same. It’s awesome, it’s a leap, you’ve committed to it, you can’t dodge once you leap. Deal with it and adapt. If you don’t like leaping when you don’t want to leap, turn off auto attack, but Ranger sword 1 is one of the best melee abilities in the game and if they changed it because people want everything easier I’d be pretty annoyed.
Honestly the issue I keep going over in my head over GS or Sword and offhand axe is driving me crazy. I love both and if it wasn’t for my love of bows as well, I’d go full melee.
There is no class I fear as a sword/axe and short bow ranger with my slightly off norm build. My survivbility is very high and my damage remains good without any loss in my survivbility using my pet properly and +damage traits and runes.
That’s far away from the topic
but, if i take your advice serious then a ranger have to switch to offhandaxe to be better with his shortbow than a thief?
I also currently run GS and SB, so no.
Ranger and thief is like chalk and cheese, ranger can maintain high damage while using a survival build and thief’s can maintain survivability through stealth while using a glass cannon build and they do it in totally different ways, simply saying “omg every class is better at range than us” shows a player up as a bad ranger.
It doesn’t matter how much better you think a thief is at range, the only thief that can kill me is one that outputs its burst during culling. The ones that try and range me are just lol funny, and don’t get me started on Dagger Storm thieves when I’m running my off hand axe. They either kill themselves, or you totally null their long cooldown, so called “OP”, elite.
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Not sure Guff knows what he’s talking about, you can’t “avoid” a trap rangers traps because an actual trap ranger build is throwing them not dropping them and you’re not really “using traps in WvW” unless you’re going to use a build built for using traps in WvW.
You’re using them the same way an aoe class uses their aoe, not the same way an untraited ranger uses traps.
another one who didnt realize yet that WD reflects projectiles …
seriously just reflect ONE unload from a thief to turn the fight instantly into a win, and unlike thieves daggerstorm our reflect skill doesnt have 90 sec cd.
So you switch weapons to offhandax and doing what after wd? maybe dancing till the cd for the next weaponswitch is over?
Not to mention most don’t use axe off hand in favor of dagger or horn…
Pretty sure any class going up against a ranger with axe axe is sitting there grinning waiting for their free badges after they stop spinning.
There is no class I fear as a sword/axe and short bow ranger with my slightly off norm build. My survivbility is very high and my damage remains good without any loss in my survivbility using my pet properly and +damage traits and runes.
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Because they can’t balance this game for kitten.
Warrior and Thief both have better ranged combat, 2 total melee classes.
If you can’t beat a ranged warrior or thief at range with a ranger then you need to roll a different class because the problem is with you, not the class.
The 25% speed signet was just something they held off for months. It shouldve been like this from the start so it’s not even a buff.
You have some really strange logic.
We’re also not the only class to have a res ability to start on cooldown.
Whenever a thief tries to range me I laugh athe them with my Whirling Defence and then kill them. Thinking about it I kill most of them when they try and melee as well.
this thread is about range vs range though that does not fall under the catagory of range WD is at your location
Dude, if you can’t beat a ranged thief at range with a ranger then the player is doing something wrong and the fault is with them, not the ranger.
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Honestly not sure I’d want their attacks doing anything else, I use them BECAUSE they are high raw damage and most importantly on very very low cool downs. When traited right in BM I don’t think I’ve ever pressed F2 needing the burst and not had it available.
If you add on a effect it would needed a higher cooldown and their are other birds for that. Plus, I think they cause a small vulnerability with their normal attacks already.
Whenever a thief tries to range me I laugh athe them with my Whirling Defence and then kill them. Thinking about it I kill most of them when they try and melee as well.
Turn off auto attack.
I’m sorry but how does that help?
…the comment was, “If you need to dodge fast in middle of chain and you can’t then it’s a hindrance”. Turning off auto attack allows you to break the chain and dodge during the chain. What is it that you don’t get?
And PvE dungeons. Don’t forget they bring virtually nothing to PvE dungeons
Traps, condition damage, Healing Spring, DPS. That’s all I’ve ever needed to get into a dungeon run.
LOL seriously ? nothing of this is useful by ranger… it’s garbage, and DPS is not even close balanced to war.
I was playing WvW and PvP when guardian shoot me on roof with staff for more dmg than i done it with my bow or short bow… aren’t rangers masters of range??? wtf… and let me mention that guard didnt use any reflect dmg…
You don’t know how to play ranger. It’s likely not the class for you, sorry.
For any melee based skill auto-attack rotation to limit your ability to dodge for all/part of it is just ridiculous.
It should be fixed.
It is in no way a hindrance, it is the perfect skill for stopping the enemy escaping from you. Because some cant use it properly doesn’t mean it needs to be fixed, turn off auto attack if you have that much trouble with it and I mean that without trolling, it doesn’t need fixing or changing it’s one of the most effective melee attacks in the game and we have it.
That’s a nice opinion, bro, but its not a fact!
So while I respect your opinion it is hardly a fact concerning the use of Sword and Dagger together.
He’s right though, if you need yet another evade then you likely have bigger problems, and if you don’t need the extra evade then dagger is a waste and the off hand is better spent on a axe for Whirling Defence, horn for buffs and speed or torch for burning fields.
If you need to dodge fast in middle of chain and you cant then its a hindrance. As much as its good tool for hounding it can get you killed easy.
Turn off auto attack.
People usually die with Troll Ungent because they use it when they need to actually heal, you should use it before you have to actually heal. If im goin against a high dps foe i throw up troll after a couple hits.
Conditions never were a problem for me enough to use healing spring…I have The Dreamer and it has sigil of purity which removes conditions and I was scared if i changed the sigils it would revert it back to exotic like it would if you transmuted it. So i kept purity on it and it helps tremendously with conditions.
Totally agree, TU should be used often and constantly, I use it as I enter a fight and when it stops ticking I have full health even after taking damage from a backstabbing or other bursts. The short cooldown combined with training and dodges is godly, I never use it because I’m in trouble, I use it simply because I’ve entered combat.
WvW or PvP ?
I am not a fan of traps. Number one problem is you can see them. Numerous times I have chased a trapper Ranger. As he runs he lays he traps. I see them and step around them. One time I was very motivated to kill a specific Ranger. He layed the trap and I said screw it and ran right over it. Damage is a mosquito bite.
Thiefs don’t fear traps with their stealth condition purges.
You’re not talking about a trap build, trap builds don’t wait for you to run over the trap, they throw them at you.
Ranger has bugs and the pet is a considerable pain but we are not at all as bad as people say.
For any melee based skill auto-attack rotation to limit your ability to dodge for all/part of it is just ridiculous.
It should be fixed.
It is in no way a hindrance, it is the perfect skill for stopping the enemy escaping from you. Because some cant use it properly doesn’t mean it needs to be fixed, turn off auto attack if you have that much trouble with it and I mean that without trolling, it doesn’t need fixing or changing it’s one of the most effective melee attacks in the game and we have it.
That’s a nice opinion, bro, but its not a fact!
So while I respect your opinion it is hardly a fact concerning the use of Sword and Dagger together.
He’s right though, if you need yet another evade then you likely have bigger problems, and if you don’t need the extra evade then dagger is a waste and the off hand is better spent on a axe for Whirling Defence, horn for buffs and speed or torch for burning fields.
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Glad to see plenty of people getting somewhere with the ranger, I was starting to worry this was the Jedi Knight forum all over again. Lots of moaning we’re useless and a few people, you just need to look at the class a little differently than you do the others.
I find plenty of use as a ranger in WvW, either as a trap throwing build, or as a BM build really annoying the enemy when they try and put up siege.
Whirling Defence is the reason I use an off hand axe and don’t want it changing to anything like warriors 100 Blades, Whirling Defence is not sub par and is perfect for killing other rangers and more importantly, dumb thieves.
100 Blades is only any use when timed with Frenzy. If you really want burst for it, time it with your pet swap with Zephyr’s Speed or Quickening Zephyr, that’s one extra option warriors don’t get.
I find it comical that skills I consider vital to my build and success are considered subpar or not viable but I’m also expected to believe that ranger is utterly broken and useless.
And you are using an axe oh instead of what? Wd is only decent cos 90% of players don’t even know how that skill works (yes even rangers). Pos is way worse than wd, pos is actually really bad. I don’t need wd at all to kill bad thieves and even more so ranged rangers.
So much more to it than anything you’ve said.
Combo field whirl effect and when combined with a pet swap Zephyr burst that also lands a 12% vulnerability in high speed being three of them.
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You guys do know that all Blind does in WvW is make the next attack miss, right? It doesn’t actually make the character who uses Blind disappear from sight.
Only “Stealth” and “Invisibility” effects make you disappear from sight of other players. The “Blind” effect simply makes attacks whiff, but you can still see the other player.
Hence why we said stealth and blind and not, stealth…
These guys lost to all the stealth and blinds rangers have. I’m sorry you other classes don’t know what skills we have access to. You were simply blinded and punished for not having condition removal.
How’s it feel to learn that rangers can be a powerful class when properly played? I won’t explain to you how this is done so our rangers have a chance to keep doing it to other classes. Muahhaa
It seems many Rangers don’t know what skills we have either, as you said we have many ways to stealth and blind. When we are played well we are a very deadly class, we have many way to blind and stealth, many rangers just don’t seem to have a clue about them because they are not staring you in the face.
That said, all rangers should have access to the white raven.
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Whirling Defence is the reason I use an off hand axe and don’t want it changing to anything like warriors 100 Blades, Whirling Defence is not sub par and is perfect for killing other rangers and more importantly, dumb thieves.
100 Blades is only any use when timed with Frenzy. If you really want burst for it, time it with your pet swap with Zephyr’s Speed or Quickening Zephyr, that’s one extra option warriors don’t get.
I find it comical that skills I consider vital to my build and success are considered subpar or not viable but I’m also expected to believe that ranger is utterly broken and useless.
Interesting, this is the kind of perspective I like to hear.
Your point on skill #4 is valid, it’s next to useless.
Whirling Defence is the reason I use an off hand axe and don’t want it changing to anything like warriors 100 Blades, Whirling Defence is not sub par and is perfect for killing other rangers and more importantly, dumb thieves.
100 Blades is only any use when timed with Frenzy. If you really want burst for it, time it with your pet swap with Zephyr’s Speed or Quickening Zephyr, that’s one extra option warriors don’t get.
I find it comical that skills I consider vital to my build and success are considered subpar or not viable but I’m also expected to believe that ranger is utterly broken and useless.
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I run a 0/30/30/10/0 build for WvW and find it does very well for my play style. It allows me to swap between pretty much any weapon set I am going to need depending on the situation I plan on entering (keep defense, siege, zerg, roam, etc.). I use zerker gear and knights melee weapons, zerker ranged.
I get plenty of kills and survival is pretty good too.
I often run this build in WvW (although I drop the 10 to 5 and put the other 5 in BM, I find the swap of pets for the quickness to be natural and invaluable to me now) and also a full BM build.
I find both builds deadly and the main reason I don’t play my thief or warrior much.
I did used to run with traps but find that they are just not worth it in WvW and much prefer some decent signets (speed, healing or condition removal depending on what I’m doing) or Lightening Reflexes.
I run either 0/30/30/5/5 or more often 10/0/30/5/25. The latter with a focus on power, toughness and healing. I drop the last 5 in BM and pick up Steady Focus, that with Peek Strength and Natures Wrath as well as your boosted pet means you’re very hard to kill but still can put out a decent output of damage when needed and with tricks like Zephyr’s Speed you can output a fair amount of burst.
Of course, other specs and classes will out damage you, but that’s not the point, your damage is decent, your pet is a killer (watching people run from my birds burst while I’m ressing people never gets old) and I’m nearly always the last one standing.
My heal is Troll Unguents, the trick to using this is to use it all the time every time, you don’t wait until you need a heal, as soon as you enter a fight and take some damage, pop it, the low cool down and very powerful tick of health will keep you at almost full health, after 10 seconds your other regens will be keeping you alive (and you should still have high health at that point) you can use it again in another 15 seconds.
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Yeah I know it’s only a little bug that isn’t game breaking, but the lose of name really really gets on my nerves.
It’s such a peculiar ability to begin with. It reflects projectiles, so coming to the conclusion that it’s an anti-projectile ability is merely logical. However, it also applies vulnerability to targets that are in melee, on top of dealing melee damage. It’s plain weird.
It would make sense however if you were to be able to move while casting it, because then it would essentially be a gap-closer against projectile-users: you’d be reflecting their projectiles on the move and once you’d reach them, you’d start doing melee damage and applying vulnerability.
As it is right now it sucks. The no.4 sucks as well. It’s pretty sad, considering I absolutely love both abilities, but only purely because of their animations.
Yeah I agree with all your points, I use an off hand axe but the 4 is useless and 5 as awesome as it is, is kind of a strange attack.
@ Agadar.4931
It does not reflect projectiles, it only blocks them. There is a big difference.
Tell that to the warrior that killed himself with his own killshot that hit my Whirling Defence last night.
I agree with many of the things you’ve said, but yes we do need work to get rid of some of the pointless frustrations mostly to do with pets. I run a non-fotM spec.
The endless forum whine is just as frustrating as the pets though I agree, but then welcome to MMOs in the 21st century. The warrior forum is often whiny as well.
So you all have survivibility but take forever to kill anyone… Ya just not my playstyle..
Welcome to the ranger.
You don’t take forever to kill anyone, due to the way our class works when we gear and spec for survival your pet still does good damage (very good damage with 30 in BM), a large amount of our damage output comes from out pet meaning you’re playing support to your pet but still dealing good damage.
I’m not saying that I like it this way but you can still keep up decent damage output while lasting.
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The trick to TU is to be proactive with it, you get no burst heal or condition removal so pop it often and soon in a fight, don’t wait for the crap to hit the fan, the lower cool down is there for a reason.
Keep in mind that 100 heal for you is ~200 for your pet, and if you have natural rejuv from your traits that even MORE, and I calculated that if you have 1300 health as a ranger you can get up to ~650 or so health regen going constantly and over 1k health regen if you pop out your spirit elite making you a god amongst mere mortals, it’s pretty sexy.
Personally I think LR is over rated, I don’t find it as that good of a skill, I much prefer sig of the wild and just eating the damage especially since no one can reduce my healing due to Evasive Purity.
I tried LR last night actually and I found I didn’t need it much, I’m just used to working without it and don’t need that extra leap or energy. I’m looking at removing my Runes of the Undead and Shaman Amulet to drop my condition damage down and lifting my healing power up instead. My build is 0/30/30/10/0 though and I might just give in and go 0/0/30/10/30.
My other weapon set is Sword/Axe … I know not the most used, but I absolutely love it.
Ha same, for the reasons you stated. I love it. Love watching rangers and warriors kill themselves on it.
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energy on both main hands, corruption on offhand.
Energy is great, although I like to have a Superior Sigil of Hydromancy somewhere, I find it useful for getting away or at least forcing them to blow a cooldown.
Ok, well obviously you havent done archery at all. Im done having this conversation with a wannabe. Good day.
Of course you are, I’m also sure you’re totally unable to back up your “shortbows were used for small children at best” with any actual facts given that shortbows were in use on horseback and for hunting and fighting in tight forest and high bush all over Britain where longbows were impractical and are to date one of the most popular selling bows in the world.
So lets just be clear, you opened with, paraphrased “shortbows are not real bows and are only for children at best” which totally differs from historical fact and then make up some random rubbish about “the only kind of bows used in combat were longbows/recurves/composite/compound bows” like for some reason shortbows can’t be recurves or composite or even composite recurve, like they have been for thousands of years.
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In both real life and fantasy, shortbows were used for practice and small children at best. The only kind of bows used in combat were longbows/recurves/composite/compound bows.
Utter rubbish.
For a start, the length of a bow has nothing to do with if it’s a short or a longbow. It’s the string angle at full draw which defines a long or shortbow.
Both bows are capable of shooting as accurately and as powerfully as each other BUT it would take a better archer to achieve the same effect with a shortbow.
Shortbows were regularly used where longbows were impractical.
As for the ranger class, we need some work, some bug fixes, pet issues but the whine that we need a complete and total rebuild is pretty comical and isn’t going to happen.
That isnt utter rubbish, learn your archery.
Utter rubbish. The difference between a longbow and a shortbow is string pinch, string angle at full draw is what differs the two, that is both historically correct and is set down in national competitions around the world and really has nothing to do with the ranger class in this game.
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My vote is jump in the water, lol, after trying and trying and trying without luck against a thief in the eternal JP I found my only chance was to jump in the water, I got her down to 20% health about 50 times and she always had stealth ready for it, I even respeced to every freaking setup possible to try and counter this one but they all proved equally useless, burst, condition, survival, healing, BM doesn’t matter she’ll run off stealth and cleanse everytime she gets low anyway and none of the pets could even reach her for a second, totally hopeless fight I even needed to take 3 days off from GW2 it was so aggravating.
It’s understandable, they are the typical MMO class that requires very little skill or effort to make work but the players of them insist that their success is all done to their own skill.
I say this as someone who does well against them, it’s Mesmer’s that give the most trouble.
Many here have issues with rangers, show us your build, some work much better than others.
I’ve just swapped out runes of the Dolyak for Rune of Dwayna
(1): +25 Healing
(2): +20% Regeneration Duration
(3): +50 Healing
(4): 5% chance to gain regeneration for 10 seconds when hit. (Cooldown: 30s)
(5): +90 Healing
(6): When you use a healing skill, you and all nearby allies gain regeneration for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 10s)the +20% regen duration and +33% from the trait natures bounty works very well together
I run a 0 /0 /30/ 20 /20 i dropped the pet buff on the BM tree for the +33% regen and protection for 5 secs combo in the NM tree
I have the shaman amulet for max toughness then healing and condition damage.
weapon sigil’s you want both + healing and +condi on diff weps if you kill with each wep you buffs on both
mainly you want healing sigil and the signet of the wild for a nice constant heal
I’m contemplating dropping Signet of the Wild for Lightening Reflexes, I’m honestly not sure the (around 100) heal I get from it is worth it and I use two traps in my other slots.