Guild Wars 2

Phantom.8130:

my favotite class to target is whatever class is trying to build a ram within range of my catapult, or a catapult withing range of my treb. or the one person who brought a golem and tried to solo a door within range of my cannon. i think she was an elementalist, because she mist formed from the down state back into the golem. which ended up killing the golem when it wore off.

i’m on TC, so i ended up imagining up that character’s perspective. a down trodden waif, who had recently decided to join the military and wanted nothing more than to prove herself to high command by singlehandedly capturing the target that the rest of her allies were unable to, despite countless tries. perhaps there were even nay-sayers and bullies who would attempt to demoralize her and play mean pranks on her back at the barracks. her success would prove all of them wrong, which made it all the more important. so she got herself a golem, we’ll call him sal. she went and captured a camp, or remained in a camp after it had already been taken, building and nurturing sal, teaching him to read and helping him take his first steps. the time was right, so she brought sal to her chosen destination, more determined than ever, and then she found me there, the living embodiment of her oppression. who ruthlessly cut her and sal down in the prime of their lives with my evil cannon of doom. such a dramatic tragedy….

either that, or it was someone that was new to WvW who had gotten a free golem blueprint from completing the trahearne storyline, and figured they’d give a shot. but i prefer my version better.

Your version makes it so much better, LOL. +1

As for the topic, i’d say I go out of my way to get Thieves. I’ve always targetted the strong class in every MMO i’ve played. That, and alot of Thieves go down in a single burst rotation.

sinister.9216:

I feel kinda bad for SoS. Doesn’t matter how well you all are doing this week, no matter what happens, win or lose, you all still wont be considered legit. If you do win, SBI and JQ will blame it on fractal dungeons and Thanksgiving, attempting to trivialize your victory. If you somehow manage to lose at this point, you will be labeled as a bandwagon server.

Also, I heard that [Agg] is on your server now. I’d been wondering where our biggest WvW guild went. Funny that they bail on us when we hit T1, and now that they’re on your server, you’re in T1. Did [TDA] transfer there as well?

Anyway, Unless JQQ steps it up next week, looks like Blackgate will be back in T1 sooner than we thought.

Unfortunately Blackgate doesn’t really belong in T1, huh? :/

IomegadriveOne.5291:

DivineBeing.2086:

glock.2089:

DivineBeing.2086:

glock.2089:

DivineBeing.2086:

You are in the same boat as BG was.

BG won = we are hackers.
BG lost = we suck.

JQ and SBI are filled with excuses. Welcome to Tier 1.

only problem with this analogy is BG won nothing, legends in their own minds only.

If you even read the forums during BG’s first week, then you would see why many of BG’s wvw guilds transferred off, leaving what, that’s right, a ghost town of a server. And if the guilds didn’t transfer off, they merely stopped playing to drop to tier 2 (hence why they’re holding their ground there) because of all the whine.

Sorry but majority of players like to pride in their server. If your server was being accused of hacking and everyone would just dismiss the win based on that, than what’s the point of trying?

P.S. All servers had their hackers.

So yes, this analogy does in fact work since BG would have won.

The spoiled brat defense: blame everyone except yourself for your server’s inability to win in T1. Mommy Mommmy bad men accused our server of cheating which caused people to leave which caused us to lose…coulda shoulda woulda… its always the same with you guys.

What an incredible disservice this attitude has done to BG’s reputation…in the end its still self inflicted wounds and no one is buying it.

I shouldn’t have such expectations for a response from someone like you lol.

Typical, you can’t see the facts. BG = dominating T2. BG = had a higher point lead than what SoS has right now, MID WEEK. Than all of a sudden BG dropped off the face of the Earth running out manned buff and no commanders online remainder of the week? Sorry, it isn’t hard to destroy an empty server.

BG dominating in T2? They can’t be with the numbers BG had in T1, not even possible.

Fact is, BG got killed by SBI and JQ’s exploit whining. BG’s main wvw guilds stop playing or transfer off, SBI demolish BG in a sheer numbers game at that point.

Proof? Look at the whining towards SoS.SoS is doing great! They are going to win so seriously suck it up and realize you aren’t the bes and learn from this.

Is nobody from BG posting here? Or are a bunch of kids just spouting nonsense they don’t know about?

At the beginning of our T1 battle we were accused of exploiting, hacking, cheating, ect, ect, ect. BG ignored it because it was nothing but a bunch of sore losers on the other servers at the time. At the end of week one we noticed some forum threads popping up on some fansites offering an alliance with JQ to push BG to T2. We thought nothing of it. We barely even visited the forums, and those who did were usually trolling SBI and JQ causing more drama. Until week 2 started, and multiple reports of 2v1 scenarios were reported. Again, we thought nothing of it until it continued for 3 days straight. Then we started reporting it on the forums to which, SBI, and JQ commanders obviously denied it despite the number of screenshots and reports we had. This carried on for week 2 and most of week 3 until the end where they realized we were not going to play their game and actually started to fight each other in a serious manner and not take 1 or 2 supply camps in EB from each other. The map was near 50/50 between SBI and JQ. Dividing EB and BGBL in half between the 2 for most of the time spent.

BG is a close server and we can call people into WvW when we wanted to. This time however at the end of Week 2, many guilds and commanders ordered the players to stand down and drop from T1 during week 3, we no longer wanted to be apart of the drama ridden T1 grouping at the time until SBI or JQ was knocked from T1, which we are patently waiting for. Not many guilds transferred off to my knowledge, but those so called bandwagoners took their place in SBI’s rankings. Week 3 we had the outmanned buff because people did what they were asked, because fighting a 2 week long 2v1 is an obvious losing battle. Now we are back and doing fine.

Sadly this is what happens when a group of childish commanders on other servers enter the forums and spread rumors that apparently everyone on a single server is hacking. But I hope SoS kicks someone out of T1 so we can have a good fight and see who truly is the best.

So, TLDR; You got pushed out of Tier 1 because your server didn’t have the goods, and you’re blaming a 2v1 conspiracy theory? LMAO! Blackgate didn’t belong in a matchup with JQ and SBI, SoS does…because they’re proving it rather than crying on the forums about being ganged up on.

Raven Paradox.1860:

Depends on what you’re looking for. Blackgate’s weakest time isn’t always NA pacific, but we for sure could use some borderland help around the clock. Blackgate has a great community (seriously, I think I’m the biggest jackkitten there and everyone thinks I’m the nicest guy they’ve met in real life). We’re a mature community and work well together. We recently had a guild leave to SoS because they only cared about winning. Blackgate cares about winning for Blackgate and improving as a community.

SoR seems like nice folk as well. They fight well and I haven’t heard anything bad about them. They’re currently against us, but they’ve put up some fun battles.

Overall, I think those two would be your best bet. They’re in T2, but currently aren’t T1 material.

I wouldn’t join JQ however. Not to be trolling, but from what I’ve seen they kind of cower in T1. They seem to like making excuses and even tried to team up with SBI. You’d just be another bandwagon guild in the rest of Guild Wars 2’s communities eyes if you joined them.

LET.IT.GO. Seriously. How long are you gonna cry about getting kicked out of T1? You’ve been whining non-stop in this forum for quite some time. JQ has been in Tier 1 for months, and has been within the top 3 WvW servers since launch. I’m sorry you and Blackgate weren’t as good as you thought you were.

vespers.1759:

Onshidesigns.1069:

mulch.2586:

Umm… then why would I grind fractals?

I kinda actually do want something to “work” toward.

I can see that ascended gear really isn’t going to matter much, but at least it’s something.

Work?
This is a game. Do you also want to work while playing your alts?

not sure if trolling or just clueless.

It’s called sarcasm. He’s alluding to the fact that the quoted poster wanted something to ‘work’ toward, in a videogame. The very notion that someone would want to actually WORK in a videogame, seems pretty ridiculous to those of us that have actual jobs where we’re expected to ACTUALLY work 40-60 hours per week. For US, working in a videogame basically defeats the purpose of why we PLAY in the first place. Make more sense now?

I just can’t believe, that after 10+ years of this garbage with various MMOs, I bought into it again. I’m really at a loss that ANET went this direction with GW2. That they so completely departed from everything they promised. That they so swiftly sold out their staunchest supporters, and left us out in the cold. Ascended is a gear grind, it is the very definition of a gear grind…no amount of PR or semantics are going to change that. Really tough pill to swallow, huh guys? Question is, will you ever trust another gaming company to deliver on its word again?

I’ll join others here and say that i’m pretty disappointed with this. I did alot of research on this game and it seemed to be exactly what I was looking for in an MMO. I’m fed up with gear grinds in other MMOs, and ANet was apparently catering to my demographic (and the demographic of many, many others as well). And then this. After all their pledges, after all their talk, after their Manifesto…they pull this. We all know how this ends, if you’ve been playing MMOs for any significant amount of time. Yet another complete and utter waste of time crafted in the form of entertainment. Sure, you don’t HAVE to get this gear, but then, if you want to compete in the highest end content, be it WvW or PvE, you do. It is a gear treadmill, pure and simple. In fact, it fits the definition perfectly.

One question I have. With all the hundreds and hundreds of options available to players that enjoy gear treadmills, why must they always end up changing every game I seem to end up in?

I all honesty, this is probably it for me when it comes to MMOs. Folks, with this, I think it’s clear that there is no TRUE innovation on the horizon. You either enjoy this garbage, or you don’t. And if you don’t, then you don’t enjoy MMOs apparently. I suppose I don’t enjoy MMOs.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

kuroi.5467:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

As a general rule for PvE you don’t go hammer/anything. Hammer has no CDs to recharge on swap and the auto isn’t strong enough to justify sitting on for ten seconds only.

If you do want to use hammer you should commit to going 100% full support and just auto-attack to spam protection, and give up on DPS, because it isn’t going to happen, not with a hammer. If you want to do a support/DPS hybrid mace/scepter/gs + staff is probably your best best.

this guy is unbelievably wrong. mighty blow in your hammer’s light field is some of (if not THE) highest DPS available to a guardian. to be honest, there’s a sticky up at the top called “AH hammer gameplay” or something like that which will show you basically exactly how to do what you’re asking with ridiculous detail. i actually just started playing around with it yesterday in dungeons (been running a guardian since head start only used hammer sparringly) and found that i could not only out-dps my GS, but that the hammer really does support altruistic healing better than just about any other weapon. if that doesn’t form the core of support based DPS, i’m not sure what does.

That guide is based on so many wrong assumptions I don’t even know where to begin with it. I suspect hammer is popular just because it’s an easy weapon to use (you can just run in and auto-attack) but it’s not actually that good compared to the other options you have as guardian.

As a matter of fact if you do want to run a hammer build you’ll have to resign yourself to taking ten minutes to kill anything. You could go Hammer/GS and just never actually use the hammer? I dunno.

You have obviously NOT tried the AH ‘Crithammer’ build. Plenty of DPS and support. You could not be more wrong in these assumptions.

Thanks alot for this. My Mesmer is my main, and I have a lvl 60 Guardian that was just kind of collecting dust because I couldn’t really settle on what kind of role/playstyle I wanted to accomplish with him. Read this guide, and I can say that this is right up my alley. I tried for years to make a 2H Hammer Warrior Priest work well in WAR, and it was an uphill battle…not so in GW2. Even at lvl 60 with level appropriate rares the ‘Crithammer’ is proving formidable, can only imagine what it’s gonna look like at 80 and geared.

Yaos.4528:

Yes, mesmers are very overpowered. When one can stay invisible and kill you in about 10 seconds that’s pretty overpowered.

I need that 10 second invisibility…can you tell me where to get it? Can’t seem to find it anywhere on my Mesmer, oh wait…

Niim.9260:

crewthief.8649:

You’re relying on an overpowered profession to carry you in PvP, and you aren’t helping yourself improve any. I’d reiterate WHY it’s overpowered, but that would get me absolutely nowhere with you, so I won’t bother. When the nerfhammer is leveled…you aren’t gonna know what to do. Then YOU’LL be on this board spamming QQ threads.

You might be careful what you enjoy, because imo mesmers are thieves with permanent thieves guild and the moment the QQ train shifts from theives, it will be an over night express heading for mesmers. The only reason mesmers are not cried about as much in regards to the rendering issue is because most people are so confused about which is the real you, they haven’t noticed your not there.

There was a ton of QQ about Mesmers at launch man, where you been? We were adjusted…several times. The Phantasm build was nerfed, and it needed to be. I’m still playing the profession and will continue to, I appreciate the concept. And I do feel that there are a couple of other things that could use toning down. Moa Morph should have a shorter duration, maybe 5 seconds instead of 10, and Portal needs to be adjusted for sPvP.

Ichishi.9613:

i am feeling exactly what Narkosys.5173 said. I know it is pointless most of the time to bring in argument and defend something, but if I don’t do that I will have to blame myself is something bad really happens (assa signet was rebalanced as per suggetions, but pistol whip was nerfed to the ground with qq)

So, you believe that the nerf threads are entirely wrong and EVERYONE else is just out to get you? Some sort of conspiracy against GW2 Thieves, is it? That’s a very believeable theory. Quite possible too. That theory isn’t ridiculous or anything.

bwillb.2165:

crewthief.8649:

lonewolf.2601:

tagnut.8621:

Most of the thief players i know admit they are very overpowered – and its one of the reasons so many have switched to them.

A nerf – a big one – would be most welcome by 90% of the community.

Sorry but your friends do not how to play this game.
A big nerf would only make things worse for the whole game, but I don’t think anet has the intention to ruin their game, they seem to have learned from other companies mistakes.

Of course not. The only people who know how to play the game are Thief players, right? I know plenty of very good players, and most of them believe Thieves are due a nerf. Sorry to break it to you.

The only people in this conversation that know how to play the game are Thief players. Non-thief players are good at the game too, but they just play the game instead of trying to get nerfs to a class that is obviously not overpowered.

Ichishi.9613:

you demand nerf for a thiefs that can’t do anything to you? or nerf for yourself?

Yes, this seems quite prevalent here… “I can easily kill almost all thieves I run across but NERF THIEVES OMFG!!!!111?”

The ONLY people in this thread that know how to play are Thief players? Really, that’s your argument? So good non-Thief players just play the game, but good Thief players hang around in the forums and respond to threads. Can you see the fatal flaw in your argument? Look around your sub-forum, then look around in the other professions’ sub-forums. No other profession even comes close to the amount of nerf threads as this sub-forum. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. You’re relying on an overpowered profession to carry you in PvP, and you aren’t helping yourself improve any. I’d reiterate WHY it’s overpowered, but that would get me absolutely nowhere with you, so I won’t bother. When the nerfhammer is leveled…you aren’t gonna know what to do. Then YOU’LL be on this board spamming QQ threads.

bwillb.2165:

crewthief.8649:

Malkavian.3751:

> Designs class around high damage, low survivability
> Nerfs skills and damage repeatability
> Class becomes useless. Can role a warrior and do just as much (or more) damage with much higher survivability. Why play a class with mediocre damage AND low survivability?

Thieves do not have low survivability. If you do, you’re doing it wrong.

Thieves do have low survivability. If you can’t kill a thief, you’re doing it wrong.

Not from what i’ve seen. Countless escapes and harassment of large groups on a fairly regular basis. You need to adjust your analysis. I think you just want to keep your ‘easymode’ to be honest. You can’t possibly be this clueless.

Malkavian.3751:

> Designs class around high damage, low survivability
> Nerfs skills and damage repeatability
> Class becomes useless. Can role a warrior and do just as much (or more) damage with much higher survivability. Why play a class with mediocre damage AND low survivability?

Thieves do not have low survivability. If you do, you’re doing it wrong.

@NightyNight

well, not everyone has a knockdown ability. I typically dodge roll immediately and/or Decoy and reset the fight.I pretty much always dodge, as it evades damage (obviously), and allows me to reposition so I can set up the battlefield. And I disagree, Thieves are a bit out of hand…

Ichishi.9613:

I am not against nerf. I am against bs nerf (because its my only attack in non glass-cannon build), against steal nerf (its me only way to get caltrops to one-shotting boss) and against mug nerf (i need it to counter bs glass cannon thieves that i never played yet). Maybe you want C’n’D nerf? Suggest something that won’t ruin my builds that were never mentioned in your posts and I’ll agree.

Revealed debuff doubled and CnD interruptible by Steal?

NightyNight.1823:

Aha..haha
quickness you say? Say buh bye to dodge.Then 1 knockdown buh bye quickness , buhbye last utility skill.If you know how to do your fights ,no thief can harm you.After you made him burn all his resources in the first seconds of the fight he’s all yours.

So basically, Thieves should be a free kill to a good player 100% of the time? Come on man, stop playing up like your class isn’t crazy good at what it does.

@ TheGuy

Nailed it dude. Can’t wait to see the response.

@Shilian

I could not have said it better myself! THAT is my entire problem with Thieves, the manner in which stealth is attained in GW2. If that were reworked, it’d fix 75% of the complaints i’d think.

I’m really sick of seeing this tired argument that the BS build is ONLY good versus noobs/bads. Come on man, D/D Thieves are one of the most common roamers in tPvP for a reason.

yertle.5837:

crewthief.8649:

Hang on a second…so you’re saying they’re being nerfed because Anet is bad at balancing? Interesting theory. The best part is all these Thief players calling other players ‘bad’, LOL. I have noticed one common sentiment out of 90% of the PvP population in GW2, that i’ve run into (not Thief players mind you, obviously, lol), they feel the Thief is overpowered. ALL those people are incorrect and/or bad players??? really?

So what happened to Pistol Whip was good game balance?

I don’t think anyone is claiming how Thief is currently (buggy/broken rendering etc) is perfectly balanced. But its pretty kitten funny how many warriors/guardians complain about glass cannon backstab thieves when they’re the rock to that build’s scissors.

Also, people like to bring up “18k backstabs”. Is that even possible after signet nerf? It is kinda silly to complain about balance using numbers from pre-nerf abilities.

Glass cannon Thief currently is an extremely pubstomp build which suffers hugely vs skilled players, AKA the forums will be deluged with complaints until the build is completely obliterated.

So…the only people that die to a glass cannon Thief are brand new and/or terrible at the game? You sure of that?

lonewolf.2601:

Break what? I don’t care if thieves get nerfed or anything. I am not a kid that will come here to cry if that happens. I will defend some points I know that are right though, when clueless people talk about a class that they haven’t played or don’t know how to counter.

If you think thieves should be nerfed because they are very good at 1vs1 then do it. But this game is mostly about massive battles, on which thieves are no problem at all.

Also, if you want this game to become wow-ish with weekly class revamps be my guest but I prefer to play the same class I started the game with. If something is wrong with balance, then it’s anets fault.

I’m sorry, but balancing this game is not going to suddenly turn it into WoW, don’t be such a drama queen. I win way more than I lose versus Thieves (most of them being FoTM rerollers), but that isn’t the point. I can see from a mile away, that they’re a bit much. The survivability that they have through in-combat stealth, the superior mobility they possess…that, coupled with the burst damage that you’d expect from a stealther class, make them simply over-the-top. The only folks I see arguing to the contrary are Thief players. Honestly, what do you really give up for the amount of burst you get in a BS burst spec? Mobility? Nope. Survivability? Nope (you get stealth, and lots of it). And if you argue that stealth doesn’t equate to survivability, then I don’t know what to say. What defense is possibly better than your opponent NOT being able to see you? My problem with Thieves is NOT their amount of burst, I expect that from the class…my issue is the fact that you sacrifice nothing in order to attain it.

lonewolf.2601:

tagnut.8621:

Most of the thief players i know admit they are very overpowered – and its one of the reasons so many have switched to them.

A nerf – a big one – would be most welcome by 90% of the community.

Sorry but your friends do not how to play this game.
A big nerf would only make things worse for the whole game, but I don’t think anet has the intention to ruin their game, they seem to have learned from other companies mistakes.

Of course not. The only people who know how to play the game are Thief players, right? I know plenty of very good players, and most of them believe Thieves are due a nerf. Sorry to break it to you.

@TakaEagle

We’d be utterly useless if they implemented LoS on iZerker? Really?

@Nuka Cola

Since you’re obviously an expert…what’s wrong with Sword/Pistol? I beat all kinds of GS/Staff Mesmers with it. And Thieves. And every other class. Blurred Frenzy is great defense/damage on a glass cannon, iDuelist is a very good Phantasm, and Trick Shot is nice in all sorts of situations. And oh yeah, with Pistol offhand, you don’t have to waste a utility slot on Signet of Domination.

Hang on a second…so you’re saying they’re being nerfed because Anet is bad at balancing? Interesting theory. The best part is all these Thief players calling other players ‘bad’, LOL. I have noticed one common sentiment out of 90% of the PvP population in GW2, that i’ve run into (not Thief players mind you, obviously, lol), they feel the Thief is overpowered. ALL those people are incorrect and/or bad players??? really?

I’ll definitely be checking this thread out the moment Anet ‘adjusts’ Thieves, LOL. Wonder how many Thief players will stick with the class…

bwillb.2165:

Some ppl just here for ego trips. There are not even a handful of people in this thread that actuly want to get the thief balanced. They just dont want to miss their instagibs.

Thieves ARE balanced. You just want to be able to stomp over thieves as easily as you do every other class, o mighty warrior. I mean, your latest argument is basically: “Thieves are easy to kill but sometimes extremely skilled thieves can run away before I get a chance to obliterate them.”

Apparently they are NOT balanced…they’re being adjusted very soon, according to Anet, LOL. But all the pros in this thread will be fine, right? I mean, they’ll obviously adapt instead of relying on an OP crutch, right?

@Echo Truth

Ah yes, the ‘maybe <insert game name here> is more suited for you’ argument. Funny, the only people that seem to be vehemently defending Thief on a constant basis are Thief players. Do you see the same amount of QQ in ANY of the other profession sub-forums? I’m aware there’s QQ toward stealthers in other MMOs, been playing them for 10 years. One thing i’ll tell you, i’ve never seen a stealther in another MMO that i’ve played with the amount of in-combat stealth that GW2 Thieves possess. But hey, maybe you’re right…MAYBE this is a learn-to-play issue for EVERYONE else and the Thief community as a whole is just on a totally different skill level. I suspect that isn’t the case though. What are you going to reroll to when they nerf the BS build?

There’s an old saying, it’s been around for a long time for good reason; Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

Kontrolle.3514:

Of cpurse there are alot players defending the thief. Its basiicly half of the game population right now.

From 10 Enemies i encounter in WvW there are 6 thieves, 2 mesmers, 1 guardian and 1 spot for the rest of classes. The only people i know in person which didnt rolled a thief are the ones that are afraid of loosing thier dignity.

Its just the noobclasses thief and mesmer that are totally inbalanced, compared to an elementalist or engineer they need no skill at all.

just take a look ingame look at the dude right of you, now turn left and look to the other dude, right. Srsly in WvW there are complete zergs which consist of mesmers and thieves.

Oh really, a zerg of nothing but Mesmers and Thieves? Screenshot? Seriously, roll up a full on glass cannon Shatter Mesmer and jump into sPvP…I eat FotM rerollers for lunch.

Echo Truth.9645:

crewthief.8649:

Echo Truth.9645:

If you are still getting face rolled by a BS thief it is a L2P issue.

If you haven’t figured out by now that you need to move away when they stealth. L2P
If you don’t layout any AOE for a thief you realized is stealth. L2P
If you run without a stun break and/or damage mitigation skill in PvP. L2P
If you are running 30/30/x/x/x spec with zerk amulet and are getting gibbed. L2P
If you don’t know any of the sound cues for the CnD, steal, BS combo, you probably wont know when to dodge. L2P
A thief misses CnD or BS he screwed. If you don’t use blinds for thieves. L2P
If you survive the initial burst and don’t use any form of CC after. L2P

Once you have survived the burst thieves can only do like once every 45 secs, give him a paper cut and you win.

Unfortunately, according to a post in this sub forum, Anet disagrees with you.

Link to the post?

Pretty much, if you DO use that argument, the first time you pull it out…people will stop reading right there.

[/quote]

Maybe that’s the problem. Instead of learning how to counter a class people just QQ forums. If good advice is included with a L2P comment then it might be worth your while to take a look.

Furthermore, the title of the post has L2P in it. If you stopped reading right there, why are you here trolling?[/quote]

Well, I did say ‘most people’…didn’t say, ‘ME’. Reading comprehension perhaps? And the thread i’m referring to is in this very sub forum, lmao. 5-6 threads down, the one with the Anet response in it. They’re toning down your classes spike damage (at least BS, from what I got), sorry :/ Of course, if most of you are as pro as you claim to be, the nerf will do very little to affect how much you faceroll your opponent…right?

NightyNight.1823:

@crewthief he just explained you what to do to counter a thief in detail.

I don’t need that explained to me.

Echo Truth.9645:

If you are still getting face rolled by a BS thief it is a L2P issue.

If you haven’t figured out by now that you need to move away when they stealth. L2P
If you don’t layout any AOE for a thief you realized is stealth. L2P
If you run without a stun break and/or damage mitigation skill in PvP. L2P
If you are running 30/30/x/x/x spec with zerk amulet and are getting gibbed. L2P
If you don’t know any of the sound cues for the CnD, steal, BS combo, you probably wont know when to dodge. L2P
A thief misses CnD or BS he screwed. If you don’t use blinds for thieves. L2P
If you survive the initial burst and don’t use any form of CC after. L2P

Once you have survived the burst thieves can only do like once every 45 secs, give him a paper cut and you win.

Unfortunately, according to a post in this sub forum, Anet disagrees with you. L2P is a very, very tired argument dude. Pretty much, if you DO use that argument, the first time you pull it out…most people will stop reading right there.

bwillb.2165:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

Okay, fair enough. So do you feel that a Thief sacrifices as much as a Warrior when speccing full-on glass cannon? I don’t believe they do, not even close. In fact, with the amount of mobility and innate survivability (stealth) that a Thief has, I don’t see any reason why anyone would ever NOT run a glass cannon as a Backstab spec…

Stealth isn’t innate, you have to activate it through one of a few slot or weapon skills. And it certainly isn’t survivability. It doesn’t block a single point of damage. It’s a positioning tool. The current rendering issues cause it to be more effective than it should be, and most thieves against nerfs will agree that that issue needs to be fixed.
The warrior, on the other hand, is at least as mobile as the thief in combat (greatsword alone has at least two rush abilities that DON’T take resources away from their burst attacks), plus true innate passive survivability (extremely high health pool and the strongest armor in the game), PLUS abilities that directly block ALL incoming damage.

Dude, stealth relates directly to survivability. I’ve mained stealth classes in every other MMO but this one. I understand the inherent benefits to stealth. If you aren’t using this capability to it’s fullest extent, you’re missing out.

Nah, I like the fact that you have to think ahead and setup your shatter…rather than a fire and forget. An auto-hit Mind Wrack would be OP, imo.

Sorry OP, I didn’t have the experience you’ve had, while levelling my Mesmer. Of course, I did play during BWEs 2 and 3, so I came into launch with a decent grasp of the playstyle required. The profession is a very active one, you have to stay on the move, dodge, and swap weapons on a fairly frequent basis. If you’re going into a fight, unwilling to weapon swap and take advantage of weapon synergies…you’re purposely kittening yourself. Staff is excellent when paired with Sword/Pistol. That’s what I run. Open with Chaos Storm, Phase Retreat out as a combo finisher granting you Chaos Armor (if i’m outside the area of my Chaos Storm, i’ll dodge roll into it to Phase Retreat out), pull out your Illusionary Warlock, kite a bit then apply Chaos Armor when the CA from your combo finisher falls off, swap to Sword/Pistol…Illusionary Duelist, Illusionary Leap, swap with your clone, Blurred Frenzy to Mind Wrack during your BF channel. An example of an attack chain that will amply melt face.

It takes time to get really good with this class, in spite of what SOME people think. Always stay moving, use dodge often, and shatter as much as you can. Those are the keys to my success, and they work in both PvE AND PvP.

I use the 10-30-0-0-30, works like a charm. There are multiple viable Staff + Sword/Pistol shatter builds, however. I’d agree with Osicat, that the inclusion of Illusionary Persona is almost a must for a shatter build though.

I’ve got a level 54 Guardian. He’s quite a bit of fun, but my Mesmer is and always will be my ‘go-to toon’ especially for WvW/sPvP.

Probably shorten the duration of Moa Morph, this would at least shut the vocal minority up. Otherwise, we’ve been nerfed quite alot the past several patches (the Phantasm Build), not really sure anything else needs nerfing.

Yeah, I saw…and i’d think Anet is aware of that as well. Hopefully they don’t just blindly nerf things without any further investigation…which I have faith they will.

Tulisin.6945:

crewthief.8649:

Can we all agree that lifespan on a glass cannon Thief versus a glass cannon Warrior isn’t really a fair comparison? The Thief can escape SO many situations that a Warrior in the same situation would die in.

They’re comparable but via two entirely different scaling mechanisms. Warriors (even glass cannon ones) benefit from innate durability and scale well with stats. Thieves (even glass cannon ones) benefit from innate mobility and scale best with skill. As a result, at lower skill levels the warrior benefits more from their innate defensive characteristics, whereas at high skill levels the thief benefits more.

I can see how the skill level of the individual Thief player would greatly impact their overall survivability…but couldn’t that be said for any profession?

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

crewthief.8649:

I understand that Warriors can dish out alot of damage. Are you dismissing all the other goodies you get with the Thief profession? Do you think a Warrior does that kind of damage AND has an equal amount of mobility, utility, and survivability as a Thief?

Your heavy armour helps you with the your superior health also, and if you want mobility look no further to your greatsword skill 5, just lost your target hit 5, hit 3 if need be and thanks to signet of range you probably still have over 20 seconds of swiftness and your gone.
Thieves do have shadow refuge, but all you need is a knock back before 5 pulses and the thief is revealed, and a lot of people dont even bother swinging randomly in the refuge…

Yeah, I do that every time…and have gotten alot of kills by doing it. Honestly, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think a glass cannon Thief has a much better go of it than a glass cannon Warrior. Armor doesn’t mean a whole hell of alot in this game in my experience.

Can we all agree that lifespan on a glass cannon Thief versus a glass cannon Warrior isn’t really a fair comparison? The Thief can escape SO many situations that a Warrior in the same situation would die in.

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

Okay, fair enough. So do you feel that a Thief sacrifices as much as a Warrior when speccing full-on glass cannon? I don’t believe they do, not even close. In fact, with the amount of mobility and innate survivability (stealth) that a Thief has, I don’t see any reason why anyone would ever NOT run a glass cannon as a Backstab spec…

Backstab is all about glass cannon, you’re right on that. I’m just trying to point out that the only real danger you face with coming accross a thief is the initial burst, and after that it goes downhill for them. Either they run because they know they lost, or they try and stay and get destroyed. Trust me, even my non backstab condition build was rather squishy. I’ve seen many warriors that I can take on because they would make careless mistakes (running from a thief, evading forward(tip against thieves for anyone out there: Always evade backwards), being hesistant. Thieves are very opportunistic, they take what they can get, and the biggest thing that gets people killed be thieves are small stupid mistakes.

I do believe in fact that thieves sacrifice more when going full glass cannon simply because they are naturally squishier than warriors, but we also have stealth, and it’s all up to interpretation. That’s why Anet should not nerf raw damage just yet. They should fix the rendering issues first, wait a little, then move on from there.

Yeah, you and I definitely agree on the need for a fix to the rendering issue. Perhaps a fix on that would bring stealth into perspective some (in terms of whether or not it truly is over the top).

@Judas

And the well-rounded Thieves will rise to the top when Anet adjusts your profession. For top players, the adjustment won’t matter much and they’ll still faceroll. The FotM rerolls, will reroll to something else.

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

I understand that Warriors can dish out alot of damage. Are you dismissing all the other goodies you get with the Thief profession? Do you think a Warrior does that kind of damage AND has an equal amount of mobility, utility, and survivability as a Thief?

The only survivability that thief has is stealth. Glass cannon builds = almost no defense. A proper backstab uses your elite, and if you want the real damage you see on most of these pictures, probably using 3 signets to get maximum stacks of might. You’d still have some initiative, your stolen skill, and that’s about it. The warrior at this point probably has almost all his skills. I am a thief, and believe me or not, but the biggest burst killer is someone who knows how to counter it. If a warrior knows the range of steal, and knows how to use endure pain, you might as well walk away.

See, that’s the thing…I don’t have a particularly tough time against Thieves (very good players obviously can give me hell, but that’s true for any profession), but I DO recognize that they seem to have a bit more of everything than most of the other classes. You can’t discount stealth as your “only” form of survivability…it is an amazing aspect of the Thief class. I run Decoy and Mass Invisibility on my Mesmer…and those two have saved my butt a TON in WvW, I understand the magnitude of stealth in PvP.

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

Okay, fair enough. So do you feel that a Thief sacrifices as much as a Warrior when speccing full-on glass cannon? I don’t believe they do, not even close. In fact, with the amount of mobility and innate survivability (stealth) that a Thief has, I don’t see any reason why anyone would ever NOT run a glass cannon as a Backstab spec…

I understand that Warriors can dish out alot of damage. Are you dismissing all the other goodies you get with the Thief profession? Do you think a Warrior does that kind of damage AND has an equal amount of mobility, utility, and survivability as a Thief?

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.