Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

One of the things that makes this different from tab targetting games is that you can use skills without targeting anything. Most of them anyway.

Glorified tab targeting game. As in the mechanics have hardly improved over current tab targetting games. They added skill activation without a target, but that is hardly ground breaking conisdering most tab targetting games had aoe spells and movement abilities that didn’t require targets. GW2 mechanics are very similar to WoW, but with anytime skill activation and no cast time, yet they don’t move much beyond games like wow. Interactions between player and npcs is about the same, they did add a universal dodge though.

We end up with a game that is easier to play and more fluid than standard tab targetting, but lacks the depth of an action combat game. How often is the ability to move and attack useful in most pve dungeons? Stack stack stack. For a game that one ups traditional mmos with more fluid mechanics it sure leaves a lot to be desired with meaningful combat encounters.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Tera does have a comparable action-based combat system. It’s not perfect, though I do like the feeling of having a targeting reticle which always determines where my character’s attacks are aimed. However, it sacrifices as much as it gains. You get locked into animations with some attacks, making it feel awkward and clunky at times. And there’s no real way to target a specific AoE spell — it just appears at a set distance from your character, reducing aiming to visual guesswork.

Besides combat, and some very nice visuals, there is very little to enjoy. Story is virtually non-existant. Quests are just “kill 10 of this, collect 15 of that,” ripped from the MMOs of a decade ago. Crafting is not worth doing. I don’t think you’re allowed in PvP until max level. There is no reason to explore or pay attention to the lore/environment. Monsters are mostly all palette swaps of a few different types. Other players are a bad thing to have around 90% of the time, as they steal mobs and gathering nodes — yet you need help to take down open-world mini-bosses as the game progresses. Playing Tera just makes me feel sad that it didn’t turn out to be more.

Well I’m not here to debate the overall condition of each game, I just wanted to point out that what we have in gw2 is far closer to tab targeting than a true action combat system. I do happen to enjoy action combat better, but that doesn’t make or break the game for me.

Beldin.5498:

hazenvirus.8154:

Beldin.5498:

Personally i don’t like the combat in games like Tera, Vindictus and Neverwinter.
First i need a clickable hotbar .. then i hate that my camera shakes whenever i
move my mouse ..
And also the combat often doesn’t really let me move while fighting instead it
forced me to move forward on a lot of skills.

Before i played GW2 the first time it was my greatest fear that the combat here
was also something like that .. and i was so happy it was not.

I’m not saying that gw2 combat system is bad for an mmo, but I don’t think it is really action combat. As I said before, glorified tab targetting.

As somebody who never really liked shooters and played MMOs for very long time
i’m a fan of tab-targeting. GW2 for me just did it right with moving while fighting
just like champions online

Well that is fine, I’m not against the gw2 combat system. I just don’t consider it real action combat.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

Um no, you are rooted only if you use spells that root you. Just like 100 blades on warrior in gw2. Tera makes use of having to complete a certain part of each attack before you can react and cancel or dodge. This isn’t a bad thing becuase it makes timing and positioning important, adding a level of skill beyond pressing the highest damage ability as soon as it it off cooldown. Auto attacks in Tera are also different for some of classes, warrior for instance can move while auto attacking although slower. Also many of Tera’s skills have built in mobility allowing you to use them for more than just attacking, much like a warriors whirlwind in gw2.

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

Thats not true, I have a warrior over there and when I attack I am rooted no matter what. I understand you prefer Tera over GW2 as you should understand I prefer GW2 over Tera and nothing can be disputed when it comes to Tera’s combat roots the character while attacking.

Oh yeah, might I add, you’re stuck with one weapon set in Tera. For example, warriors can only melee over there, they have no range, which puts you at a disadvantage in pvp in my opinion.

I just got done playing an hour of Tera on my warrior, attacking doesn’t root, but it does force you to move in the direction of a specific attack. If that is rooting then gw2 warrior rush is rooting and so is whirlwind…

Beldin.5498:

Personally i don’t like the combat in games like Tera, Vindictus and Neverwinter.
First i need a clickable hotbar .. then i hate that my camera shakes whenever i
move my mouse ..
And also the combat often doesn’t really let me move while fighting instead it
forced me to move forward on a lot of skills.

Before i played GW2 the first time it was my greatest fear that the combat here
was also something like that .. and i was so happy it was not.

I’m not saying that gw2 combat system is bad for an mmo, but I don’t think it is really action combat. As I said before, glorified tab targetting. The idea behind skills moving you is that everything you do effects positioning it makes combat more dynamic and even allows you to anticipate an enemies movement, allowing you to use it to your advantage.

The real downfall of gw2 combat for me is in the zerging I see in wvw, which is for the most part completely mindless spamming of 1. The other part of stacking I hate is in pve, stack up at point blank and spam skill in a corner… there is nothing engaging or interesting about this kind of combat.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

Um no, you are rooted only if you use spells that root you. Just like 100 blades on warrior in gw2. Tera makes use of having to complete a certain part of each attack before you can react and cancel or dodge. This isn’t a bad thing becuase it makes timing and positioning important, adding a level of skill beyond pressing the highest damage ability as soon as it is off cooldown. Auto attacks in Tera are also different for some of classes, warrior for instance can move while auto attacking although slower. Also many of Tera’s skills have built in mobility allowing you to use them for more than just attacking, much like a warriors whirlwind in gw2.

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

laokoko.7403:

hazenvirus.8154:

laokoko.7403:

hazenvirus.8154:

laokoko.7403:

hazenvirus.8154:

Except they aren’t skins anymore. Anet has made them into what are supposed to be the best weapons that should never need to be replaced. The problem is you are better off replacing them with ascended…. We can’t go backwards so we might as well go forwards and make them the end all be all weapons they are supposed to be.

Yes and Anet says they want the best gear to be easily obtainable and if anyone want pretty skins and willing to farm or grind till infinity that’s their problem.

I don’t know what you mean by you are better of replacing them with ascended. You are suppose to use ascended and just apply the skin to it, Because it is just a skin

No you see the weapon lets you select any stat combination. It used to just be a skin when they were exotic. They have made it into something more whether you like it or not. People like to use selectable stats and BiS as a reason why legendaries are so special, but the problem is they are not that special because you can only put one sigil in the legendary. So if any build you might want to change to has a different sigil you have to destroy your old sigil to use an ideal build. If anet is willing to say there is no value in the legendary weapon beyond the skin and that we should all make ascended weapons instead of using our legendary then I guess I’m okay with that. If they believe there is value, and they told me as much then they need to update legendaries so we can swap sigils without destruction or they are worse than making many ascended weapons and many times more expensive.

and anet will probably keep ignoring you, weather you like it or not.

They are good at that, but I’ll keep trying… as long as there is weather I like?

Have you tried sending in customer support, asking them to add it because you think legendary is more than just a skin?

quite honestly, I just think they just got tired of answering players question why their legendary weapon have the stats they don’t want.

I think you might need to check on the QoL changes and posts regarding it before you assume they just did it to shut people up. Sigil swapping is the final step that makes Legendary Weapons the end all be all and until they change it they will be second best to ascended for anyone that wants to play several ideal builds with their legendary that require different sigils. I am just looking see if other players agree that the change would be a good idea. If all you have to say is anet won’t do it, then you aren’t really adding anything of value to this topic anymore. We appreciate your opinion, thanks and goodbye.

laokoko.7403:

hazenvirus.8154:

laokoko.7403:

hazenvirus.8154:

Except they aren’t skins anymore. Anet has made them into what are supposed to be the best weapons that should never need to be replaced. The problem is you are better off replacing them with ascended…. We can’t go backwards so we might as well go forwards and make them the end all be all weapons they are supposed to be.

Yes and Anet says they want the best gear to be easily obtainable and if anyone want pretty skins and willing to farm or grind till infinity that’s their problem.

I don’t know what you mean by you are better of replacing them with ascended. You are suppose to use ascended and just apply the skin to it, Because it is just a skin

No you see the weapon lets you select any stat combination. It used to just be a skin when they were exotic. They have made it into something more whether you like it or not. People like to use selectable stats and BiS as a reason why legendaries are so special, but the problem is they are not that special because you can only put one sigil in the legendary. So if any build you might want to change to has a different sigil you have to destroy your old sigil to use an ideal build. If anet is willing to say there is no value in the legendary weapon beyond the skin and that we should all make ascended weapons instead of using our legendary then I guess I’m okay with that. If they believe there is value, and they told me as much then they need to update legendaries so we can swap sigils without destruction or they are worse than making many ascended weapons and many times more expensive.

and anet will probably keep ignoring you, weather you like it or not.

They are good at that, but I’ll keep trying… as long as there is weather I like?

laokoko.7403:

hazenvirus.8154:

Except they aren’t skins anymore. Anet has made them into what are supposed to be the best weapons that should never need to be replaced. The problem is you are better off replacing them with ascended…. We can’t go backwards so we might as well go forwards and make them the end all be all weapons they are supposed to be.

Yes and Anet says they want the best gear to be easily obtainable and if anyone want pretty skins and willing to farm or grind till infinity that’s their problem.

I don’t know what you mean by you are better of replacing them with ascended. You are suppose to use ascended and just apply the skin to it, Because it is just a skin

No you see the weapon lets you select any stat combination. It used to just be a skin when they were exotic. They have made it into something more whether you like it or not. People like to use selectable stats and BiS as a reason why legendaries are so special, but the problem is they are not that special because you can only put one sigil in the legendary. So if any build you might want to change to has a different sigil you have to destroy your old sigil to use an ideal build. If anet is willing to say there is no value in the legendary weapon beyond the skin and that we should all make ascended weapons instead of using our legendary then I guess I’m okay with that. If they believe there is value, and they told me as much then they need to update legendaries so we can swap sigils without destruction or they are worse than making many ascended weapons and many times more expensive.

Except they aren’t skins anymore. Anet has made them into what are supposed to be the best weapons that should never need to be replaced. The problem is you are better off replacing them with ascended…. We can’t go backwards so we might as well go forwards and make them the end all be all weapons they are supposed to be.

laokoko.7403:

hazenvirus.8154:

LostBalloon.6423:

Morsus.5106:

hazenvirus.8154:

Travis the Terrible.4739:

No. We don’t need another reason for legendary weapons to become more and more common. They’re already becoming pennies in a coin jar at this point, but we dont need more of them because you no longer need to buy sigils.

It would only make them equivelent to ascended. Right now they are effectivley worse because it costs more to make a legendary than the several ascended weapons you need for multiple build. Not to mention each ascended weapon gets a good sigil for that build.

At one point Legendaries had the same stats as exotics. Let’s keep that in mind.

Let’s also keep in mind that Legendaries “will always be equivalent to the highest tier of stats available” on top of its added QoL stuff like stats swapping.

My point is that without this change the stat swapping isn’t very useful.

That’s the point. If you really want a different stats, craft another ascended weapon and add in the sigil like everyone else.

The stat swapping shouldn’t be there in the first place. You already got what you want for a legendary weapon, which is the skin.

I don’t mind if ascended gear can stats or sigil swap too. But if legendary can do it… It’s like you are crafting legendary to save money.

I dont’ think the stats/sigil swapping is big now. But if they added legendary armor etc. And you can swap a full sets of gear. That is quite big. People’ll actually get it for the convenient and not the skin.

Well anet decided that the value of a legendary is more than a skin. I was told this by customer support. Anet went half way with swapping, now they need to finish the deal with sigils.

laokoko.7403:

legendaries is just skins right?

make another ascended weapon. put in the proper sigil and add the skin to it.

Nope they aren’t just skins they have this thing called stat swapping that looks good on paper, but functions poorly in practice because of sigils.

LostBalloon.6423:

Morsus.5106:

hazenvirus.8154:

Travis the Terrible.4739:

No. We don’t need another reason for legendary weapons to become more and more common. They’re already becoming pennies in a coin jar at this point, but we dont need more of them because you no longer need to buy sigils.

It would only make them equivelent to ascended. Right now they are effectivley worse because it costs more to make a legendary than the several ascended weapons you need for multiple build. Not to mention each ascended weapon gets a good sigil for that build.

At one point Legendaries had the same stats as exotics. Let’s keep that in mind.

Let’s also keep in mind that Legendaries “will always be equivalent to the highest tier of stats available” on top of its added QoL stuff like stats swapping.

My point is that without this change the stat swapping isn’t very useful.

Morsus.5106:

hazenvirus.8154:

Travis the Terrible.4739:

No. We don’t need another reason for legendary weapons to become more and more common. They’re already becoming pennies in a coin jar at this point, but we dont need more of them because you no longer need to buy sigils.

It would only make them equivelent to ascended. Right now they are effectivley worse because it costs more to make a legendary than the several ascended weapons you need for multiple build. Not to mention each ascended weapon gets a good sigil for that build.

At one point Legendaries had the same stats as exotics. Let’s keep that in mind.

What point are you trying to make?

Travis the Terrible.4739:

No. We don’t need another reason for legendary weapons to become more and more common. They’re already becoming pennies in a coin jar at this point, but we dont need more of them because you no longer need to buy sigils.

It would only make them equivelent to ascended. Right now they are effectivley worse because it costs more to make a legendary than the several ascended weapons you need for multiple build. Not to mention each ascended weapon gets a good sigil for that build.

TooBz.3065:

I’ve been thinking about this, because it comes up all the time, what if each different stat set had it’s own sigil slots.

So if you are on berzerker stats and you but on a sigil of bloodlust then swapped to, say, soldier or rabid stats, the sigil would go away. And of course, return again when you swapped to berzerker stats.

That would be an excellent solution and make the legendary at least as functional as multiple ascended weapons.

Zui.9245:

Legendary weapons should be what they were always intended to be. A fancy skin, and that’s it.

The stat swapping on legendary weapons should carry over to all ascended gear. Your sigil swapping idea should carry over to all ascended weapons, and all ascended armor should be capable of rune swapping. All ascended gear should also be capable of infusion swapping.

As it is, getting a full set of ascended gear isn’t that much of a grind; it’s within the realm of reasonable grind IMO. Getting a full set of close to optimized ascended gear for dungeons and fractals in a team setting is a colossal grind. Getting a second set of ascended armor with Strength runes for solo and uncoordinated group play is an additional grind, but it’s not as bad as getting a ton of ascended weapons (even if you more or less skimp and just get say force/frailty, force/justice, force/night, and force/undead combos, along with a bit more weapons you normally won’t use for situational purposes).

Then we’ve got WvW, which is going to demand at least one different set of gear, because you’re probably not going to want the same stat combinations you would in PvE, nor are you going to want the same sigil/rune combinations. And we’ve got WvW infusions, too, which can make a noticable difference when taking things like fully upgraded camps with a lowish number of people. And we must consider that hey, perhaps someone might want to run different builds in WvW, and in many cases, this again demands another set of gear…

Let’s not forget people with multiple characters, who want to do lots of different things with those characters, either.

For example, I might really want to play a condition warrior in WvW in addition to what I normally play there. It could be very fun for skirmish-style play. But I’m not going to invest in a set of rabid gear with runes of the krait, and some weapons with doom/earth sigils to do it. Especially not ascended gear, which due to WvW infusions (what does one typically do in small group WvW play? Take camps. NPC damage reduction and damage increase helps.), and a few percent damage reduction over exotic gear, and ~6% damage increase, would really shine here. I’m sure it’d be fun and interesting to play. But is it worth even the time cost of doing it in Exotic gear, much less Ascended gear? Not even close.

One of the appeals of Guild Wars for me, was the ability to run an optimal (as best as I could determine it) setup on any character I wanted with relative ease, allowing for a great deal of fun experimentation playing different builds with the same class, even different classes, and knowing that it was my player actions that dictated success.

Lots of grind to play different builds and classes? Not fun. Extreme tediousness of managing all the items? Not fun. I thought that ANET said grind wasn’t fun, and they didn’t make grindy games. Well, the grind for ascended isn’t too bad, until you factor in how compounded that grind gets for multiple builds and multiple characters, and it’s really unfortunate. As far as I’m concerned, this is mostly a design oversight on their part. An oversight they really should fix.

I wouldn’t mind legendaries just being skins, and adding more ways for all a weapons and armor to support different builds and playstyles is a good step forward for more build diversity. A lot of people find the best cookie cutter build they can think of and make one ascended set because it is such a pain to grind. Furthermore the cost of runes and sigils can be extremely expensive. Even if you wanted to play a different build with the same set of gear you could spend hundreds reslotting it with proper runes and sigils

Zhaitan fight should have been more personal. I understand we needed plot device laser to harm the elder dragon, but after being fire bombed a bit he should have leapt the the aircraft and pulled it down with him. After the crash we find ourselves in a narrow canyon with a badly wounded Zhaitan staring us down. Then fight him to the death in close quarters.

Please make the Mordremoth fight more personal this time. I can understand a plot device to wound it, but let us deal the finishing blows. People want to stare down the dragon and kill it with their own hands.

Eglesia.5049:

They are considered “Bugs” in Arena-Net’s terms.

I found a video which shows how to enter Fort Vandal.

For those of us that know about hidden areas, there isn’t much incentive to reveal them on the forums. About all I can expect is for them to get fixed. If you find someone in game to show you that is great, but…

PLEASE DO NOT bring undue attention to these places or they won’t be around in the future for people to enjoy or stumble upon on their own.

tekfan.3179:

I’ve seen “hostilities” in other games, but I never experienced it this build-centric.
Mostly I’ve been kicked out of parties to make room for random friends of the trinity-setup in other games.

As for GW2 I found some of the people kicking out of gear-/build-reasons being among the worst players. If they can’t hide behind a zerker-party that kills off mobs faster than they are actively able to die.

I got two builds I’m running with, one is a zerker-build and one is a tank/support-build with full celestial gear. In the first one I can shred through mobs easily.
When I run with the second build in dungeons I often get comments from people who leave because of it.
However, no one complains if the four other zerkers have basically no conditions on them, get might on occasion, mobs being controlled to stay away from non-melee classes and an earth-elemental tanking the boss while I run around in water-attunement to pick the downed ones back up.

I can understand people preferring a specific build like zerker, but people not being open-minded that other builds can be just as effective in a party are simply annoying.

Part of the zerker meta problem is that for most content stacking is so ideal and you can use it all the time. Stacking ensures better healing, damage, survivability. Because you have the extra survivability when stacked you don’t need tanky stats as long as the mob perishes quickly and you can dodge burst attacks.

The problem with other more support oriented builds not being accepted as meta is because of game mechanics and dungeon design. Condition damage is easily accidently overwritten. Stuns have to be very well coordinated to be effective and for pug it isn’t effective enough to be a requirment. AI needs spells that discourage stacking except for brief moments where you can maximize dps on a crippled boss. Anti cc stacks on bosses need to change. CC should cause different effects to bosses that open up weaknesses. Boss damage needs to be more consistent and less bursty. Obviously there has to be a cooldown and maximjm debuff time for CC on bosses, but imagine if you could cause a boss to take more damage from a certain cc effect and disorient the boss for long enough to stack and get a big damage chain off before having to spread out again and continue surviving and poking away at boss hp. Maybe each individual CC debuff effect has a cooldown. So while the bonus damage debuff and disorient is on cooldown, you use something that causes boss damage to be reduced by a flat amount plus missing more attacks. This allows you to survive better until the next burn phase.

TLDR, we need more dynamic AI, boss abilities that are threatening to stacked oponents, revamped CC system, and more periodic damage from bosses.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Sunshine.4680:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you think you can go into a real MMO, where your intentionally being useless will actively cause the team to fail and wipe and be forced to restart the dungeon from scratch, and not end up on the personal kitten list of everyone on the server, you’ve got another thing coming.

Go on and try it though. I’d love to hear how it goes.

When did the OP say they were going to run a useless build?

It’s right there in his signature lol.

Good catch, I actually cited that as one of the things not to run in my earlier post and I didn’t even realize it was the OPs build. OP: If that is what you run then understand why people kick you. It is not because they are taking mindless agression out on you it is because no matter how good you play with that build your primary damage source stacks in duration only and any low damage burn will overwrite it and totally eliminate your dps. This has nothing to do with people being unaccepting, the build you use has so many problems in that the class and game mechanics doesn’t support it well at all.

Wanderer.3248:

Without any targeting, leaping would be a problem. Generally you want to leap into your target, not over them. I don’t think soft targeting would be accurate enough for leaping.

The way skills are designed can solve this for instance you can have the skill leap to the target if it is within a specific range left or right of the direct line of sight. Of course if you aren’t aiming right you could pay the price and miss completely. That is part of what makes action combat fun. The reward for mastering your abilities, positioning, and movement is far greater than in traditional tab target mmos.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

Belzebu.3912:

It is called “Action Combat”.
Many MMOs claim to have it but it is usually half truth.

Agreed. Seems like GW2 has mastered it.

GW2 combat is what I call “glorified tab targeting.” It is a step up from traditional mmos, but it is not even close to action combat. If you took WoW and added the cleaving, mobile casting, and a dodge you would pretty much have GW2 combat.

Examples of action combat:
TERA
Vindictus
Black Desert Online

Those games have real action combat.

Blaeys.3102:

Sounds like you need better people to play this game with.

Yes, much of the pug community – and some others – feel they have some innate right to tell you how to play – but most players do not. The issue is those players are all in established guilds playing alongside people who feel they way they do.

My advice – find a guild that understands how freeform and friendly this game can be – while still being fun.

To be honest it is a lot less in this game. Why? Because this game is so easy you can stand in a corner with your friends and faceroll most of the pve content with almost any build. A while back a guild group had a conversation about dps and dungeons and we decided to just play whatever we wanted. I ran banner regen condi war and I don’t think anyone else was running a “ideal” dungeon build. I never had to dodge in any of the dungeons we did. Stuff died almost as fast as with ideal builds and I could literally roll my face on the keyboard and win.

That isn’t to say every group of builds can do what we did. We still had solid gear for our choices and our weapons synergized with our build. For instance I would expect condition guardians to fail quite badly in any content, but if you don’t mind working with your group and have an unorthodox build that doesn’t mean it can’t work.

That being said I wouldn’t run that with a pug unless I wanted to troll them. When people see things they consider bad and if it, in their minds, correlates to failure or other poor runs that is why you get kicked. The best way to avoid this is to learn the dungeon with a meta build. Once you have been led through a couple times and know it, make your own parties and do what you want. If you are confident and can explain a rational strategy to new players and play your build well then that is all you need to accomplish the dungeon. If your group stacks up in a corner and you run 1500 yards away and shoot arrows while your bear attacks and then the group wipes, guess what they will remember…

I have run my condi war build before in pug that didn’t mind and many lulz were had as I face rolled my way through the dungeon with 300+ group hps and a nearly unkillable warrior with 900+ hps.

Jack.9628:

I know these words might seem alien to these forums but, you know you can play other games, right?

-evacuates to bomb shelter-

The best part is you can play other games and still continue to criticize the elements of this game that caused you to quit or offer suggestions to improve mechanics in that area. I do both and don’t even play this game right now. I do hope I have a good reason to return in the future because there is a lot I like in this game. Just because someone doesn’t play doesn’t mean they don’t have a good understanding of the game and what could be done to improve it. When I see that the game has made the minor changes I need to enjoy it then I will start spending money on it again. Until then I will play Archeage and Black Desert and spend money on them. You can still find time to post on the forums and play other games. I only post because I still care about and enjoy parts of the game. It is just too bad some of the pasteries make me want to vomit now.

syndicates.9826:

Don’t worry hazen, I’m in the same boat as you.

They’ve already shut off my ticket and future ones related to the topic, but I still have hope of changes.

I might be able to get past it if they add sigil swapping to legendary weapons at some point. That would at least make the stat swapping useful for me… until then I won’t consider returning to gw2.

Ashen.2907:

hazenvirus.8154:

I could handle the outcome being different if I was given a good reason why. If there was a defect with your car shared by other people and you had the option to request a refund and you did at the same time as your friend and he recieved a refund, but instead of giving you one they simple said sorry we can’t give you a refund or tell you why… well you might understand our frustration.

There is no defect in this situation. The item you purchased still functions as it did when you purchased it. In your example I would be owed some form of compensation for the defect. A company’s refusal to offer one would be a breach of the purchase contract (unless the item was sold, “as is.”). Whether or not they offered a refund to anyone else who purchased the car would have no bearing on the company owing me a refund. The functionality of someone else’s car is irrelevant to my interaction and my purchase contract with the car maker.

Anet does not owe you a reason why. Their interactions with a customer that is not you are between them and that customer.

If they gave compensation for duplicate armor skins why couldn’t they give compensation for duplicate legendary skins (actually they did). I’m not even talking about the exchanges I even just asked for a new skin. Wouldn’t that be like refunding a duplicate armor skin? I mean everyone says the value is the Legendary quality, so what would a new skin for my wardrobe matter if I didn’t get a full stated legendary to go with it?

You’re right they could ban all our accounts for no reason or delete all our characters and not have to say anything. I’m just expressing my disappointment in the situation as is my right to do until they decide I shouldn’t be allowed to voice my opinion on the forums. It will probably accomplish nothing, but I can try.

JusticarArkiel.1564:

there is no entitlement for you to even get a title, since you either: a) made the duplicate legendaries a long time before wardrobe was even a thought in the anet dev’s heads, or b) you made it during the announcement of the feature patch and just didn’t think about the possibility. if its the former, stop complaining, you now have 2 items with stats that are better than exotic (not by much, but still), and now you have a title. if its the latter, you should’ve used logic and realized the wardrobe was coming, hell, i figured it would come on day one of me playing this game since the transmutation stone/crystal system was so inefficient. also, in the former’s case, do RL stores give you a full refund of a REAL item you bought with REAL money a year before the next version of it was to come out? no they do not, so stop complaining about losing all the virtual money to make the duplicates, nobody forced you to make the second bolt, incinerator, etc.

Just give me a good reason why some people were refunded, who agree with me that their situation was no different, and I will happily stop posting. Also tell me how getting a new skin for a legendary weapon is different than someone who applied two gem store armor skins onto different armors? They still have skins on their armor. Technically they lost nothing if you believe the skins have zero value. ANet clearly thought the refunds were important for gem store armor, so how is getting a new legendary skin (just the skin) out of line?

Teknomancer.4895:

We can’t dye weapons and that’s probably not going to change, but for those of us who want a color-coordinated look, it would be nice to know which colors those weapons actually use. For example, the Viridian weapons (toughness) don’t appear to actually use Viridian Dye, there is no such thing as Citrine dye to compare to the Citrine weapons (precision), the Crimson weapons (power) don’t match the crazy expensive Crimson dye etc.

Any ideas on which armor dyes are the closest visual matches for Ascended weapons? I know Lt/Med/Hvy armors all show colors differently because of the different materials, but there has to be some way to at least get close.

It wouldn’t be too difficult to add a custom dye that allowed players to create a new dye color from rgb sliders. I imagine you might get to see this in the future as a gem store item or maybe from a high level crafting profession. If nothing else ANet could make a lot of money doing this.

Ashen.2907:

I am not sure that I believe that compensation of any sort is owed in a situation of this sort. Player A bought item(s) X. Item X continues to function. Player A retains possession of item X.

If player A still has what he paid for then why is he somehow being mistreated by not receiving further compensation ?

If I buy a computer and a year later it goes on sale am I owed a refund, upgrade, or some other form of recompense ?

As to some people reportedly receiving some form of compensation and others not…

Every commercial transaction between a player and Anet is between that player and Anet on a case by case basis. We as players are not siblings, receiving bowls of ice cream from a parent, arguing over who got the biggest scoop. What happens between Anet and a customer that is not me in a situation of this sort that is not really my business in my opinion.

I could handle the outcome being different if I was given a good reason why. If there was a defect with your car shared by other people and you had the option to request a refund and you did at the same time as your friend and he recieved a refund, but instead of giving you one they simple said sorry we can’t give you a refund or tell you why… well you might understand our frustration.

Also comparing a electronic item that does not depreciate from normal wear or new products to a computer is a poor comparison. A better comparison would be the refund for duplicate gem store purchases, which anet provided at request. They clearly felt that duplicates warranted a refund in that case because you lost money due to the wardrobe making duplicate skins obsolete. Legendaries might have stats, but the truth is we lost money on the value of the skin even if we retain legendary stats. To say otherwise is to say the gem store refunds were done without cause. We have the same situation for the skin portion, the least they could have done would be to let each player with a duplicate add a legendary skin to their wardrobe (not a full legendary weapon, just the skin).

leng jai.2961:

At least you guys got something. I made 2 Infinite Lights for my Mesmer and the second one is literally worthless now.

I feel for you. I personally think they should have made exceptions for all the most expensive skins. I mean there is really no good reason to make a second of any of the most expensive weapons in the game. It would have been easy to look at skins over say 200g and refund them. The number of people with duplicates would have been a drop in the bucket to people looking for gem store refunds and other issues. It just doesn’t make sense when you look at the actions that were taken. All we can do now is express our dissatisfaction, so issues like this don’t occur in the future.

Vayne.8563:

Not sure but maybe the criteria is how long you’ve had the weapon for. That sort of makes sense. If you’ve been using it for an entire year, you might be less entitled to “return it” than someone who’s only using it for a month.

Just a possibility I’m suggesting, I have no idea of it’s true or not.

I think I finished my Bolts later than my friends had finished their Incinerators, but that seems like something that would have been easy to tell me. Like, hey sorry but you have had your weapon too long. I doubt it was this and I was well mannered initially. I calmly explained the situation and citied the reasons I felt made my situation refund worthy. Even going so far as to mathematically prove how much cheaper it would have been to make ascended weapons and showing how I couldn’t even use the stat swapping correctly if I wanted to, since the only other character that could use it was my mesmer, but I wasn’t willing to swap out expensive condition sigils for power because of how costly that would be. The truth is the stats swapping went almost entirely unused and wasn’t utilized effectively. The swords were used almost entirely as dire stats and only when I felt like running around faster or just enjoying their effect in dungeons would I bother using them outside wvw. If it hadn’t been for the look ascended would have served me far better at several thousand gold less. Of course after many emails back and forth I became more annoyed that they couldn’t even give me a reason. My calm and collected responses broke down a little as I tried to figure out why I was being treated differently.

Azrael.4960:

syndicates.9826:

Azrael.4960:

Sorry to say that Anet doesn’t have to do diddly squat. Some people got a refund some people didn’t. Only moderators read the forums and only then to delete posts or lock threads. Rather than go on and on about it in the forums, you’d be better off spending the same effort submitting tickets.

(Personally though, I don’t think you really deserve a refund, but that’s not what this thread is about so that’s a discussion for another thread and another day)

Whether we deserve it or not is not the case here. It’s a matter of why are some players being treated unequal than some in this specific case. They are not disclosing any information even though one of the players that were reimbursed shared the exact same situation as I have.

Please read the comment in parentheses. I already said it a discussion for another thread on another day.

Back on the topic, Anet has never been consistent in how situations that lie outside of the TOS and their rules are dealt with. To be frank, I think it comes down to whichever customer support officer you wind up with

That is honestly their own fault then. Treating customers fairly should be an important goal for them. This issue was also brought up a long time before the patch hit. How difficult would it have been to send out a refund guideline email to support before the patch hit? I could accept no refunds, but not luck of the draw refunds. What happened wasn’t right or I wouldn’t be submitting tickets or complaining.

Azrael.4960:

Sorry to say that Anet doesn’t have to do diddly squat. Some people got a refund some people didn’t. Only moderators read the forums and only then to delete posts or lock threads. Rather than go on and on about it in the forums, you’d be better off spending the same effort submitting tickets.

(Personally though, I don’t think you really deserve a refund, but that’s not what this thread is about so that’s a discussion for another thread and another day)

Well that’s just like your opinion man…

I also continue to submit tickets until anet can tell me what the difference is between my situation and those that got refunds or they compensate me. I would probably quit if they gave me a good reason.

TooBz.3065:

IDK, I think that you got to have two legendaries at a time when nobody else did. You still have two weapons which are guaranteed to remain BiS…

I have difficulty understanding why you need compensation.

ANet has already been compensating people, we also made our weapons for the skins. Wardrobe makes the extra skin useless. We would rather just get a new skin to replace our now useless one. We have two overpriced weapons and one is redundant. I could make every ascended weapon combo I desired for thousands less than a duplicate legendary weapon and the ascended weapons would be more functional because I could have the ideal sigil for each of my builds. If ANet added swappable sigils, like stats for legendaries, then this issue would go away for me. As it stands, however, the second legendary is inferior to ascended and has no unique skin thanks to the wardrobe patch.

syndicates.9826:

After going back and forth with support, I have felt betrayed by the customer service and treated unequally to those who gained a favorable response.

Not only did I not play for months (even missing the update which caused all this drama) but having had my two incinerators since 2013 and now having one of them obsolete is unfair. The time and money spent crafting the second one could have been used for better things.

All I simply requested was just to unbind the duplicate so that I can have the freedom to choose between selling it or having a lackluster Twice-told title. Instead, I get the canned responses and undisclosed reasons as to why I am being treated indifferently.

I know exactly how you feel. As much as I enjoy my guild and parts of the game I am moving on to other games. If ANet decides to take action and fix the situation I would be happy to explore Guild Wars 2 again, but I doubt this will be the case, fortunately there are a lot of upcomming mmos I am looking forward to trying.

Ashen.2907:

hazenvirus.8154:

People like to imagine ANet didn’t say ascended was the final tier. They won’t make another tier if the keep to their word.

“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on. "

-Chris Whiteside

That is the only quote I could find (admittedly I did not spend hours searching) with a quote referencing new tiers of gear. It does not state that there will not be new tiers.

I would honestly love to see a quote that states definitively that there will never be another gear tier.

As to keeping their word, we were supposed to have BiS gear by level 80 and any grind would be for cosmetics, not stats.

I think you are right they have been very careful to avoid it and this is the quote I remembered. “That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve.”

data.4093:

If you have legendaries, THAT IS YOUR TROPHY. If you have more than 2 legendaries(like the OP, who has 8 ) what are you whining about? The legendary IS your trophy, not the title. The title is just for people who have 2 identical ones. You still have the best stats in the game that can be changed at will and you are still protected against further vertical progression.

People like to imagine ANet didn’t say ascended was the final tier. They won’t make another tier if the keep to their word. The title and AP is junk in both cases anyway. Making several legendaries is quite a process if you do it legitimately and aren’t lucky.

cesmode.4257:

Belenwyn.8674:

cesmode.4257:

As a sort of former player(not playing with any intentions of getting back into it anytime soon, but possibly in the future)…. I firmly believe that this company has no sense of what it wants to achieve. They want to be an industry leader with more content patches than any other game. Yet, the amount of content, new perma content, in the game is abysmally low.

Yes, with an expansion you may get a load of content all at once, and then nothing for maybe 6months to a year before a large content patch…. but its REAL meaty content. Its dungeons, skills, classes, races, story, zones, perma stuff. I know Anet is working toward more perma stuff, but for 2 years its been very temporary, no new dungeons if you exclude fractals (which isnt for everyone), two new zones(one abandoned in southshore and one that is being released incrementally), no new skills(don’t talk to me about the one or two silly healing skills that have no impact on my builds), no new races or classes, and a breadcrumb-like story.

Yeah, Id rather have that expansion now. I pay 60 bucks for it.

Where does this unlimited confidence come from that an expansion would be so much better and would satisfy all desires? An expansion would simply be the sum of all episodes of season 2 plus a feature pack of unknown size. If Arenanet is not able to deliver meaty stuff step by step, they are for sure not able the deliver it in one big batch. These are the same people. Simply casting the word “expansion” as a magical formula will not transform the employees in other persons in a magical way.

I would be able to play the expansion all at once for several weeks or a couple of months straight if I wanted. Fully immersed and excited in the game. After im done with that expansion content, I’ll either do what I would do now, or take a break. In its current form, I would play LS for a day or two, and then wait around until the next one.

At least the content would have some cohesiveness to it. All together, nicely nit and sewn…not sprinkled across a year like bread crumbs. “oh yah this happened in the story 3.5 months ago…”

Yeah! Imagine trying to read A Song of Fire and Ice if Martin released one chapter every three months. I have to read over the books now before the next to make sure I recall everything, but at least I can really dig into it when it is out. Right now that is what Living Story is only worse, more like a couple pages from a poorly written chapter. The method of delivery is such that I’ve never felt attached to the living story to the point that it feels like a chore to even try and pay attention. I honestly can’t wait for living story events to end when they are released.

cesmode.4257:

As a sort of former player(not playing with any intentions of getting back into it anytime soon, but possibly in the future)…. I firmly believe that this company has no sense of what it wants to achieve. They want to be an industry leader with more content patches than any other game. Yet, the amount of content, new perma content, in the game is abysmally low.

Yes, with an expansion you may get a load of content all at once, and then nothing for maybe 6months to a year before a large content patch…. but its REAL meaty content. Its dungeons, skills, classes, races, story, zones, perma stuff. I know Anet is working toward more perma stuff, but for 2 years its been very temporary, no new dungeons if you exclude fractals (which isnt for everyone), two new zones(one abandoned in southshore and one that is being released incrementally), no new skills(don’t talk to me about the one or two silly healing skills that have no impact on my builds), no new races or classes, and a breadcrumb-like story.

Yeah, Id rather have that expansion now. I pay 60 bucks for it.

Developing more immersive combat would be a start. I don’t feel very heroic stacked into a corner with 4 other people. Granted some fights have mechanics, but the boss stun immunity buff needs to be adjusted to allow more interesting gameplay choices beyond dps with utility skills making up all the support.

All I do now is log in look at my legendary weapons, say to my self kitten those look awesome. Realize the combat in the game is stale, wish anet had refunded my duplicate legendary so I had one more to look at, and then wonder what the difference was between my duplicate legendary and the people’s who got refunds. Then log out and play a different game.

ANet needs to make a mini pet squire that bashes two coconuts together for everyone that wants a mount.

Azhure.1857:

Light.7493:

I always thought my kasmeer staff was better than legend. 75% of the ingame population isn’t using it. It has a feather trail which sets it apart from other trails like footprints and that glowy thing.

Less and less people seem to care about the details in weaponry, or armor for that matter, because its now all about being flashier than your peers. “Keeping up with the Joneses” comes into play in Tyria too…

Player A: I have a weapon with special effects!
Player B: Maaaaaan…. I want that!
Player A: /flex
months later
Player B: Hey, look. * flashes new weapon with special effects * I got it!
Player A: That’s nice…. but check this out. * flashes multiple legendaries and their effects on armor/footprints *
Players C-P: * admires the free laser light show *
Player B: ….. Dude, that’s awesome! I’ve so gotta have that now.
Player Q: /facepalm

…. eventually we won’t be able to see “characters” anymore because giant masses of flame, light, darkness, etc etc will be all we’ll be able to see.

Actually it is possible to stack the auras of certain legendary weapons to the point where all you see is your character’s outline in a giant laser light show bubble.

Black Teagan.9215:

xil.5140:

Black Teagan.9215:

You could also try this: Buy an ascalonian weapon and transform the skin from Bolt on it.

In dungeons and at the night, the effect of Bolt is much stronger than normal, but I’m not sure if this have the same effect of that what you saw.

I believe this was actually fixed a few patches ago.

Oh, really!?

No, you can still activate the effects of your non-active weapon and underwater weapon sets at will. The issue is swapping weapons again will remove the effect. The effects can also be stacked using certain tonics and transformations. Another trick is that if you enter the water after stacking an effect on land it will remain even if you change you are swapping your underwater weapons and vis versa on land.

Another thing to note is that the effects are different for everyone. I’ve had people ask about auras I had going when I couldn’t see any and times where I could see them and others couldn’t. I think this has to do with when and where a player loads in as well as when you activate the effect. Someone that loads in after you activated a non-active weapon aura might not see it until you re-activate it again.

Plok.5873:

I generally like the weapon and will build it, however I’d love to see a blunderbuss or shotgun variant for the engineer.
Shooting a sniper rifle from the hip is somewhat inappropriate, indeed.

The animations need to be adjusted for Engineers although it looks great on warriors. The footsteps can be very difficult to see though and could really use some more love.

Pennry.9215:

I don’t understand people’s counter arguments to the OP.

First: The OP is comparing what’s gained in the Achievements category, nowhere else. So why bring up other categories for comparison?

Second: Why does everyone bring up just the skins? I know some people probably still craft them solely for the skin, but you gain so much more now. You get the skin, the ascended stats with promise that they will forever be top-tier stats, and the ability to change these stats to any available combination.

So, someone who created two of the same Legendary didn’t lose anything with the Wardrobe addition. Unless they crafted the second Legendary solely for the skin, then they just lost time/effort; but if you’re going to compare the whole picture, you have to include the fact that they still gained the other Legendary benefits.

As someone who’s created more than two Legendaries, looking at the Achievements panel is kind of insulting. If I compare everything else, I still come out on top. However, I do not understand the reasoning for compensating people that opted to make a duplicate Legendary just for the skin, when you’ve already enhanced the Legendaries beyond mere skins.

It is is cheaper and more functional to make a bunch of ascended weapons in place a second legendary weapon. You can make every stat combo for much less than an ascended weapon like Bolt or Incinerator and have the most ideal sigils for each build in your ascended weapons. The cost of swapping sigils everytime you change builds makes Legendary weapons obsolete in functionality and cost. Look at the price of the best sigils for condition and power builds and ask yourself if the cost of overwriting those sigils is worth 5g if you go back and forth between a condi and power build at least daily.

Allanon.9072:

Gang.2415:

I’ve crafted 8 legendaries and received only 25AP, and now people who made duplicate legendaries receive the same AP and a tittle.

What the hell? I mean 6 legendaries of difference and they receive more?

At least if you guys want to use this logic, make Eternity count for this achiev too … and yes i know eternity is not duplicate but you need 2 legendaries to make it.

Be happy at least you got something you greedy ppl don’t forget NO ONE forced you to craft double legendaries or ANY legendary

Actually lots of people received full refunds for their duplicate legendary weapons. If you look for my thread about the title there is some information about it. Most of the people who got refunds were allowed to pick a legendary of equal or lesser value to replace their duplicate. The title is a poor substitute against players who received this treatment.

Legendary weapons deserved to have this feature from the point they added stat swapping. It sounds great that you can swap to any stat until you realize that going between different builds like power and condition require very different and expensive runes for the build to be ideal. Right now the only reason to make a Legendary over ascended is the look and maybe if you think you can get away with the same rune for all your builds. Personally, I would rather have several cheap ascended weapons than make a Legendary for stat swapping. This is because each ascended weapon could have a sigil tailored to the build as opposed to a Legendary where you might destory some very nice runes, like going between strength and tormenting. It is worth noting that it is cheaper by far to make every useful stat combo in ascended than it is to craft a legendary.

TLDR
Sigils of this nature would make Legendary weapons the true end all be all ideal weapon, while right now they are prohibitively expensive compared to a bunch of ascended weapons and also less functional because of sigils.

Edit: “ckittene” (c a n … u s e) is censored…

Raziel.4216:

Now that’s real evidence.
Disturbing indeed, everyone should get their refund

Exactly what I was thinking. It should be all or nothing.

Raziel.4216:

Actually I have.
- You claim Anet refunded some people.
- I call you out on your lack of evidence.
- You pull the “I saw it card”
Here we can see you go from easy-to-edit to anecdotal and you’re unable to provide any hard-evidence to back up your claims. Hitchens’ quote applies here, "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

Now you expect me to go away because you’re unable to refute anything. Really?

Still looking forward to that evidence

Would you accept if I provided screenshots of the emails with original header information originating from Guild Wars 2 Support? Then you can trace the ip address and confirm it originated from them. I will try to find someone with a screenshot in the meantime. In the end though I know it is true, you don’t have to take my word for it. I’m looking to move on from the game soon anyway.