Guild Wars 2

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

Prysin.8542:

jkctmc.8754:

Eurantien.4632:

jkctmc.8754:

No good player dies to the Ranger. I still havn’t lost a fight to one. Not even when I am playing my Ranger.

Quality troll sir. Go play tPvP.

sPvP is for the people who can’t be bothered to level, or can’t handle the full damage of WvW. There is nothing like fighting harder hitting players under the damage of siege, and still surviving.

If I can survive a Thieves burst in Glass Canon build, that does easily 50% more than they do in sPvP, while dodging cat shots, and treb shots, what makes you think a Ranger could ever kill me in sPvP?

I’ve never lost a single fight with a Ranger, nor an Engineer. I’ve only lost three fights against Necromancers. You see, I attend fight clubs virtually every other day, and spend hours at fight clubs on weekends.

Sir, may i remind you that in WvW, most glass cannon rangers are half dead when you encounter them?! Not to mention the fact that most rangers are actually playing the class quite horribly. Only recently, has the ranger community itself started to re-vitalize by refining gears and sharing tactics. With time, we will grow into a mighty foe.

As for your “uberness”, claiming to be pro, without evidence, is like claiming to own a ferrari without showing it to anyone. Post vid, then claim to be pro. If not, your skill is subject to your own ego. And most people aren’t sincere enough to say that they are about average.

I couldn’t agree more. Thanks for actually seeing the light. I’m an aggressive writer and people here tend to think I’m a troll but the fact is that you’re closer to the truth than they are.

I think it’s funny that people make all these claims about ranger but never show any proof. But the moment I try to apply logic and math to this profession, I get shot down.

And for everyone else: we’re not claiming all of the professions are exactly balanced equally such that every possible build has a chance versus every other build when played optimally. That’s just not true! Of course some professions have more potential for DPS than others given a set of boundary conditions. This much is obvious.

Rather, what I’m saying, and I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I really believe that the DIFFERENCE between professions is smaller than mainstream thought as of March 13, 2013, makes it out to be.

I know for a fact there is more of a skill gap between average players and good players of ANY profession than there is from the POTENTIAL for damage from ranger when compared to, say, warrior.

The fact is, you’re more likely to notice less DPS coming out of a newer/mediocre player than the difference in DPS between a skilled warrior and a skilled ranger.

That’s just it, Xsorus has proven to be good with the Ranger, with videos. He then jumped on a Thief, and showed he could do ten times better on another class, and you guys laugh it off, and make excuses.

So why bother?

Please explain the math behind your “10x” better quote?

In his videos he struggles fighting three players with his Ranger, but in his Thief video he fights zergs with 20+ players in it, and living, while downing people. But even though he has videos of this, you guys make excuses because the proof isn’t enough.

I mean seriously.

I gave a video of a four man group, through the eyes of a Warrior killing 20-30 people, and you guys said, but, but, but, but……. I mean come on. You don’t want the truth, you want to BS.

You have never provided counter videos to the ones I’ve posted, ever.

Okay…anecdotal evidence doesn’t fly in the court of law, friend. Let me try to explain why.

A lot of thieves have it super easy in a large zerg because they can stealth and run away if they have to or just stealth to lose targets. No one, in a big battle, is going to explicitly target the assassin coming into and out of existence. That’s just a waste of time—and that’s the best thing thieves do for the team. They waste the opponent’s time.

Every profession has a role. You should open your eyes to things ranger can do well…I mean, by your logic, every profession needs to be able to kill 20+ players at once to be “balanced”. That doesn’t sound like a fun game to me, bro.

More excuses. Provide proof that the Ranger is fine in WvW. We’ve provided proof that the other classes are much better, with the exception of Engineer, and Necromancer.

The ball is in your court. You say others don’t provide proof, YET THEY DO, without ever providing proof yourself.

All the other classes provide much more to a WvW group than a Ranger, so what role does the Ranger serve, other classes in WvW do not do better?

Chopps.5047:

jkctmc.8754:

Chopps.5047:

Prysin.8542:

jkctmc.8754:

Eurantien.4632:

jkctmc.8754:

No good player dies to the Ranger. I still havn’t lost a fight to one. Not even when I am playing my Ranger.

Quality troll sir. Go play tPvP.

sPvP is for the people who can’t be bothered to level, or can’t handle the full damage of WvW. There is nothing like fighting harder hitting players under the damage of siege, and still surviving.

If I can survive a Thieves burst in Glass Canon build, that does easily 50% more than they do in sPvP, while dodging cat shots, and treb shots, what makes you think a Ranger could ever kill me in sPvP?

I’ve never lost a single fight with a Ranger, nor an Engineer. I’ve only lost three fights against Necromancers. You see, I attend fight clubs virtually every other day, and spend hours at fight clubs on weekends.

Sir, may i remind you that in WvW, most glass cannon rangers are half dead when you encounter them?! Not to mention the fact that most rangers are actually playing the class quite horribly. Only recently, has the ranger community itself started to re-vitalize by refining gears and sharing tactics. With time, we will grow into a mighty foe.

As for your “uberness”, claiming to be pro, without evidence, is like claiming to own a ferrari without showing it to anyone. Post vid, then claim to be pro. If not, your skill is subject to your own ego. And most people aren’t sincere enough to say that they are about average.

I couldn’t agree more. Thanks for actually seeing the light. I’m an aggressive writer and people here tend to think I’m a troll but the fact is that you’re closer to the truth than they are.

I think it’s funny that people make all these claims about ranger but never show any proof. But the moment I try to apply logic and math to this profession, I get shot down.

And for everyone else: we’re not claiming all of the professions are exactly balanced equally such that every possible build has a chance versus every other build when played optimally. That’s just not true! Of course some professions have more potential for DPS than others given a set of boundary conditions. This much is obvious.

Rather, what I’m saying, and I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I really believe that the DIFFERENCE between professions is smaller than mainstream thought as of March 13, 2013, makes it out to be.

I know for a fact there is more of a skill gap between average players and good players of ANY profession than there is from the POTENTIAL for damage from ranger when compared to, say, warrior.

The fact is, you’re more likely to notice less DPS coming out of a newer/mediocre player than the difference in DPS between a skilled warrior and a skilled ranger.

That’s just it, Xsorus has proven to be good with the Ranger, with videos. He then jumped on a Thief, and showed he could do ten times better on another class, and you guys laugh it off, and make excuses.

So why bother?

Please explain the math behind your “10x” better quote?

In his videos he struggles fighting three players with his Ranger, but in his Thief video he fights zergs with 20+ players in it, and living, while downing people. But even though he has videos of this, you guys make excuses because the proof isn’t enough.

I mean seriously.

I gave a video of a four man group, through the eyes of a Warrior killing 20-30 people, and you guys said, but, but, but, but……. I mean come on. You don’t want the truth, you want to BS.

You have never provided counter videos to the ones I’ve posted, ever. You seem to have good knowledge in PvE, but lack that knowledge in WvW.

Chopps.5047:

Prysin.8542:

jkctmc.8754:

Eurantien.4632:

jkctmc.8754:

No good player dies to the Ranger. I still havn’t lost a fight to one. Not even when I am playing my Ranger.

Quality troll sir. Go play tPvP.

sPvP is for the people who can’t be bothered to level, or can’t handle the full damage of WvW. There is nothing like fighting harder hitting players under the damage of siege, and still surviving.

If I can survive a Thieves burst in Glass Canon build, that does easily 50% more than they do in sPvP, while dodging cat shots, and treb shots, what makes you think a Ranger could ever kill me in sPvP?

I’ve never lost a single fight with a Ranger, nor an Engineer. I’ve only lost three fights against Necromancers. You see, I attend fight clubs virtually every other day, and spend hours at fight clubs on weekends.

Sir, may i remind you that in WvW, most glass cannon rangers are half dead when you encounter them?! Not to mention the fact that most rangers are actually playing the class quite horribly. Only recently, has the ranger community itself started to re-vitalize by refining gears and sharing tactics. With time, we will grow into a mighty foe.

As for your “uberness”, claiming to be pro, without evidence, is like claiming to own a ferrari without showing it to anyone. Post vid, then claim to be pro. If not, your skill is subject to your own ego. And most people aren’t sincere enough to say that they are about average.

I couldn’t agree more. Thanks for actually seeing the light. I’m an aggressive writer and people here tend to think I’m a troll but the fact is that you’re closer to the truth than they are.

I think it’s funny that people make all these claims about ranger but never show any proof. But the moment I try to apply logic and math to this profession, I get shot down.

And for everyone else: we’re not claiming all of the professions are exactly balanced equally such that every possible build has a chance versus every other build when played optimally. That’s just not true! Of course some professions have more potential for DPS than others given a set of boundary conditions. This much is obvious.

Rather, what I’m saying, and I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I really believe that the DIFFERENCE between professions is smaller than mainstream thought as of March 13, 2013, makes it out to be.

I know for a fact there is more of a skill gap between average players and good players of ANY profession than there is from the POTENTIAL for damage from ranger when compared to, say, warrior.

The fact is, you’re more likely to notice less DPS coming out of a newer/mediocre player than the difference in DPS between a skilled warrior and a skilled ranger.

That’s just it, Xsorus has proven to be good with the Ranger, with videos. He then jumped on a Thief, and showed he could do ten times better on another class, and you guys laugh it off, and make excuses.

So why bother?

You come off as someone trying to claim the Warrior is underpowered, while beating down the Ranger.

Prysin.8542:

jkctmc.8754:

Eurantien.4632:

jkctmc.8754:

No good player dies to the Ranger. I still havn’t lost a fight to one. Not even when I am playing my Ranger.

Quality troll sir. Go play tPvP.

sPvP is for the people who can’t be bothered to level, or can’t handle the full damage of WvW. There is nothing like fighting harder hitting players under the damage of siege, and still surviving.

If I can survive a Thieves burst in Glass Canon build, that does easily 50% more than they do in sPvP, while dodging cat shots, and treb shots, what makes you think a Ranger could ever kill me in sPvP?

I’ve never lost a single fight with a Ranger, nor an Engineer. I’ve only lost three fights against Necromancers. You see, I attend fight clubs virtually every other day, and spend hours at fight clubs on weekends.

Sir, may i remind you that in WvW, most glass cannon rangers are half dead when you encounter them?! Not to mention the fact that most rangers are actually playing the class quite horribly. Only recently, has the ranger community itself started to re-vitalize by refining gears and sharing tactics. With time, we will grow into a mighty foe.

As for your “uberness”, claiming to be pro, without evidence, is like claiming to own a ferrari without showing it to anyone. Post vid, then claim to be pro. If not, your skill is subject to your own ego. And most people aren’t sincere enough to say that they are about average.

I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a glass canon Ranger. I do love the old argument used in every MMO though, that you continue to use here; (You must fight baddies, while I fight the best players in the world). Quit using that argument, it only discredits anything you ever have to say. Sure, I fight baddies, just like I fight good players.

You could always duel me on any of my toons, and post the video yourself.

Criminal.5627:

lol thats exactly right nerva, good rangers in WvW dont usually go off alone if they do they usually are moving from one location to another and have the utility and weapon skills to get away from groups or foes that try to jump them.

also i just want to mention WvW can not be a mesurement of skill. Just for the fact that you are not fighting all LvL 80’s (alot of them are lower lvled and trying to level to 80 so they run around looking for events) so no, not everyone is in exotices and karma exotics do not have the best stats anyways for WvW…rangers really need spicific stats to make weapons work, they are not like other classes where you can mix stats and still be efficent with any of your weapons.

What stats do the Karma merchants not have?

Strzalka.9451:

Who need’s traps?
:)

Granted it’s not a tournament but the only ss I have of a tournament match, other team got rolled so bad 2 of them quit.

It looks like only a few on the opposing team played, and one didn’t play.

Nothing stacks higher than 25, Bleeds, Might, Vulnerability.

With a high enough condition duration you only need Axe + Focus to get to 20+ stacks of Vunlerability.

I refuse to do PvE, and I don’t have Ascended Gear. That said, I compete just fine with those who have it, and I run solo a lot in WvW. My issue with Ascended Gear is that it has created a situation where far too many people leave WvW for PvE, and that sucks for the WvW community.

I want those people out of PvE, and back in WvW.

Criminal.5627:

jkctmc.8754:

Eurantien.4632:

jkctmc.8754:

No good player dies to the Ranger. I still havn’t lost a fight to one. Not even when I am playing my Ranger.

Quality troll sir. Go play tPvP.

sPvP is for the people who can’t be bothered to level, or can’t handle the full damage of WvW. There is nothing like fighting harder hitting players under the damage of siege, and still surviving.

If I can survive a Thieves burst in Glass Canon build, that does easily 50% more than they do in sPvP, while dodging cat shots, and treb shots, what makes you think a Ranger could ever kill me in sPvP?

I’ve never lost a single fight with a Ranger, nor an Engineer. I’ve only lost three fights against Necromancers. You see, I attend fight clubs virtually every other day, and spend hours at fight clubs on weekends.

so wait wait wait… so you never actually fought a ranger in sPvP where all gear is standard and there is no gear gaps and people are rather skilled at fighting other people and not npcs? hahaha go play some sPvP see how well rangers treat you mate

First; There are not gear gaps in WvW, unless you believe the minor percent people get off Ascended some how matters. I have no Ascended, and I beat those geared in it on a regular basis. I’ve leveled 6 toons from 1-80 in WvW doing zero PvE, and I have never felt like there was a gear gap, even when I was wearing greens. Did you know that 1-80 doing camps in WvW gives you enough Karma for 6-8 pieces of Exotic gear you get from Orr merchants.

Second; Are you honestly trying to say sPvP players are skilled, and WvW players are not? I hope not, it will only destroy your stance before it even begins.

Third; Yes, I’ve fought them in sPvP, learn to dodge those traps. You know how to dodge right? There is no excuse crying about the Ranger, none. If you are having issues with traps, slot Sigil of Purity, it helps. I’ll go back into sPvP when it isn’t boring, and they create 5v5s. and/or 10v10s where you have to fight within a well coordinated group, rather than protect control points, with boring bunker vs bunker fighting.

Fourth; If you believe WvW players only fight NPCs, you are not worth talking to.

Eurantien.4632:

jkctmc… come on man. 90% of those rangers don’t know how to play. Of course you win one on one. Got to be more clear. Psh..

Because you only fight skilled players, and I fight unskilled players, amirite? <laughs>

Use a better argument, not an old one that means absolutely squat. Use what ever excuse you want, it still doesn’t excuse the fact that I have never lost to a Ranger, or Engineer, and have only lost three fights to a Necromancer with 6 Exotic geared level 80s, that leveled solely in WvW. Everyone on my server, and my opponents know I run solo 95% of the time, and it isn’t uncommon for me to log in, and have a dozen offers for 1v1.

I’m sick and tired of the anti-Rangers making threads like this. It is absurd considering the issues behind the class.

I’m willing to be proven wrong though. I accept any 1v1 offered to me. Just message me in game.

Eurantien.4632:

jkctmc.8754:

No good player dies to the Ranger. I still havn’t lost a fight to one. Not even when I am playing my Ranger.

Quality troll sir. Go play tPvP.

sPvP is for the people who can’t be bothered to level, or can’t handle the full damage of WvW. There is nothing like fighting harder hitting players under the damage of siege, and still surviving.

If I can survive a Thieves burst in Glass Canon build, that does easily 50% more than they do in sPvP, while dodging cat shots, and treb shots, what makes you think a Ranger could ever kill me in sPvP?

I’ve never lost a single fight with a Ranger, nor an Engineer. I’ve only lost three fights against Necromancers. You see, I attend fight clubs virtually every other day, and spend hours at fight clubs on weekends.

No good player dies to the Ranger. I still havn’t lost a fight to one. Not even when I am playing my Ranger.

It’s just fortunate for the Ranger community that there are a lot of bad players out there, so they are allowed to win quite a few fights because of this, and still feel good about playing the class.

If you do that, you might as well not have walls, or gates, and just have nothing but open field PvP.

At this point in time I think I would be happy if they’d at the very least put Condition Damage, Vitality, Toughness gear on the PvP merchants.

I’m not expecting much to be honest.

Lopez.7369:

Pendragon.8735:

Balancing for bad players is impossible yes, but I’m pretty sure its not the case that more bad players randomly roll up Necromancers than other professions. Because it seems clear that more people struggle with this class (and maybe 1 or 2 others), up until or unless they stick with it long enough to get very good, vs certain other profs.

If enough people are ever going to care about this game to be interested in high level tourneys, you first are going to need a flourishing casual game to cultivate that interest. Which is harder to do when any Joe Shmoe can easily jump on a warrior or thief and do well off the bat, but not so much with Necro or other professions. In fact, I think it hurts a profession like the warrior to be so built or dependent on such simple good/bad mechanics like 100B, where there the dividing line of its effectiveness is so much in the hands of the opponent.

This actually isn’t true at all. League of Legends has ridiculously complicated mechanics that most people don’t come close to understanding, and it’s hugely successful. Some heroes and positions are completely impossible for bad or new players to manage.

Same deal with Starcraft 2. One race in particular is considered much more difficult than the other two, and some of the strategies and tactics professional players do would be simply impossible for low-level players to grasp.

If there’s one profession that most new players don’t grasp but the best players can pick up later and really get a use out of, that’s fine. It’s normal for any competitive game or sport.

A game needs to have some level of casual play, but it doesn’t have to include every class and role. It’s fine if some classes just aren’t accessible to worse players. That kind of diversity in challenge is good for the game.

The difference though is in the skill ceiling. For example; no player will ever reach the skill ceiling in Starcraft 2, a celing only a computer can reach, getting 10,000 APM. In GW2, there is a very disturbingly easy skill ceiling, that most players, including casual players can reach.

Players who make 200k to 400k or more a year playing eSports practice as little as 8 hours a day, to as much as 10 hours a day, or unbelievably, reported by Americans who’ve joined Korean houses, they have reported Korean players practicing for as much as 14 to 16 hours a day.

They even purchase houses, and move in players with equal, or better skill to play against during this time, to hone thier skills.

The perception of imbalance in games like LoL, and GW2 only happens when someone hasn’t put in the time needed to compete with those that are defeating them on a regular basis.

It’s a night, and day difference than playing a relaxing, casual game like GW2.

I like talking to the enemy. <shrug>

Your enemy is your friend, without him you wouldn’t have a game.

What Bas is doing is great for the game, and great for the players. The first step for any game, or player base wanting to get into eSports is to open up a dialogue, and talk about it.

Why would you want to get GW2 into eSports at a very high competitive level? Starcraft 2 paid out more than $2 Million last year to its winners, not to mention other deals winners got from companies like Logitech, Gigabyte, and so on wanting them for advertisement.

Lopez.7369:

I was never bragging. I was qualifying. But I do find it different how many psychological defense mechanisms kick in when someone brings up a game that someone else failed at or never quite grasped.

The difference between a professional sports player and a professional e-sports player is that professional sports are generally much easier to understand. What’s happening on the screen is readily apparent due to the stricter structure of professional sports. That doesn’t apply to Guild Wars 2; most people don’t come close to grasping elements like positioning or playing defensively with offense in MMORPGs. (I would be surprised if 90 percent of GW2 players even thought about proper positioning for one second.)

It would be one thing if the hosts were just playing devil’s advocate. That’s fine. But almost every conversation was ended with one of the hosts saying he disagrees. Silly.

It’s obvious this lack of humility will never change, so I’ll leave it at that.

First, and foremost, I never played WoW. There was nothing to grasp. But every person I have ever seen brag about being good at WoW, sucked playing any other PvP atmosphere in every PvP game I have ever played. Worst, they can’t even raid well in other PvE games that has top raiding content.

WoW, and GW2 have nothing on the eSports scene. If you’re good at gaming, test your might against the high APM Koreans in Starcraft 2, or test your might in League of Legends. WoW, and GW2 are never going to compete on those levels, in eSports, and players who think they’re good could never compete professionally in games like Starcraft 2, and LoL because they really are not good at games like they think they are. Hell you probably laugh at someone clicking, even though Koreans can click, and spread Marines against a baneling rush, losing very few Marines. That’s the difference in a professional eSports player, and you.

You need to open your eyes and realize how weak sPvP is, and why most of the population doesn’t play it, but like myself still play LoL, and Starcraft 2 at a much higher skill level than you will ever attain. GW2 is too easy and this allows for a large portion of the population to be good at it. It’s nothing more than another timesink MMO and is not, and never will be balanced.

I come here to play this game when I need to relax, and play something easy.

Lopez, no one cares what your rank was in World of Worthless players, the worst PvP game to date. Go back to WoW, if you want to chest thump, and quit crapping on threads with this nonsense.

If you have an issue with being asked questions, or to explaining your point of view, don’t put yourself, and your ideas in the publics view. You don’t see pro-football players crying about critiques from the general public.

Coaches are the most knowledgeable people in the world in virtually every aspect of any game, even if they can’t play it as well as those they coach. So get off your high horse. It gets old that you can’t discuss anything without people like you coming in with this nonsense.

anthsss.1564:

Dovgan.8605:

@anthsss How’s 4th … oh that’s right …

This explains a ton, I now see why you guys are content with coming in 2nd, you think that you are tier 1. Also, you have to remember that DH was “4th” before this week, good job losing to them this week

Wow, you must really be upset that Anvil Rock has always remained in this tier, and you can’t. Don’t worry, even though you got guild transfers from Anvil Rock, to Northern Shiverpeaks, we’ll still stay in this tier, while you fall below us, wishing you were up here. <winks>

DH thank Borlis for helping you get Bay back, and stopping AR from taking your BLs tonight.

Anvil Pants.3426:

Anvil Rock has had this set of troll guilds for weeks. Last week’s matchup thread contained nearly two pages (prior to their deletion) of Anvil Rock’s [Charr] speaking cheezeburger (google it) with some of NSP’s trolls.

Trolls recognize their kind, and befriend their kind. They meet inside and outside the game, and their fun at your expense is not limited to the imaginary confines of ANet’s server loyalty and boundaries.

We’ve had trolls team up before, and so has every other server. I’d bet on that.

That makes sense. I took over a week off (was planning on taking off until the next big patch in March), and my wife coerced me into leveling her Necro the last two days. So I’ve missed a lot .

That doesn’t explain the cheating I’ve seen though.

Fraeg.9837:

Zanydachico.7304:

Anvil Rock? More like Anvil Squishy…(Lame Joke)
Anyways, I’ve played long enough to say it.

Where your good players at?
I’ve seen coordination from both sides. Impressive. Yes but C’mon when it comes to Zerg on Zerg or small group fights, whatever I’ve been involved in so far. Pfft. Impress me. BP now they make your Butt Clench when you achieve a win! Muahahahjaahhahjaha cough

You are fooling yourself if you don’t think Ar has some great players. We have been fighting Ar for a month plus, and there are some rock solid folks on Ar

It’s funny seeing them say that. I was on my wifes Necro (she’s coercing me to level it), running around with an 80 Elementalist, and we were killing groups twice, and even three times our size. We picked up a Guardian, and they couldn’t kill us without thier large zerg.

Aeros.2046:

I can’t speak for AR, but I know BP was having shenanigans last night too. It is a stretch to say DH is somehow able to sabotage two servers, but they definitely had some help from the troll brigade irregardless.

We’ve been seeing a lot of odd stuff. We’ve got a large group of people who pretty much go chase ghosts so they can get the evidence to report it, and I think this issue alone is hurting us drastically. It also seems we have two Troll guilds now on Anvil Rock.

Makes you miss the BP vs NSP vs AR match up because we didn’t do these things.

There is no way in hell any less than level 80 could kill any of my level 80s. It just isn’t possible. I don’t thing two upleveled toons could kill any of my level 80s. Glass Canons will hit uplevels for average 9k or higher hits.

You’re either exaggerating, or you’re fighting undergeared level 80s, and thinking they’re fully geared.

Dark Aidget.3879:

jkctmc.8754:

It seems we have a new troll guild on Anvil Rock now. They took the place of that guild that left for NSP I guess. Could be part of that old guild, who knows.

Well that just sucks. This game has enough frustrations without people in your own server making you want to scream.

It is what it is I guess.

Rashagal.5867:

Actium.8765:

jkctmc.8754:

Rashagal.5867:

jkctmc.8754:

Was a good match up until an entire guild decided to sabotage our siege supply by putting up a ton of rams, and trolling our chat constantly, with a commander of this guild we’ve never seen before leading people to their deaths.

They’ve been doing this for weeks.

It’s going to be humorous when they lose, after pulling stunts like this.

Either way, BP, or Anvil Rock will beat them, if not both.

What makes you think DH is the one doing this? :\ that’s just wrong when you jump to conclusions like that.

Its not DH. Its the same EB trolls that 2G deals with that always go for grub instead of defending towers or our valley keep. To be fair, though, [SoS] wouldn’t know that because they generally avoid EB like the plague. lol.

I had a misclick, or poor judgement when I went into there. It seems we have a new troll guild on Anvil Rock now. They took the place of that guild that left for NSP I guess. Could be part of that old guild, who knows.

Rashagal.5867:

jkctmc.8754:

Was a good match up until an entire guild decided to sabotage our siege supply by putting up a ton of rams, and trolling our chat constantly, with a commander of this guild we’ve never seen before leading people to their deaths.

They’ve been doing this for weeks.

It’s going to be humorous when they lose, after pulling stunts like this.

Either way, BP, or Anvil Rock will beat them, if not both.

Was a good match up until an entire guild decided to sabotage our siege supply by putting up a ton of rams, and trolling our chat constantly, with a commander of this guild we’ve never seen before leading people to their deaths.

Actium.8765:

When we last played we had just went through darkhavens third guild exodus so was in the process of loosing a bunch of people with our moral plummeting. Since we stabilized in the tier with GoM and HoD we have grown our numbers and worked hard on getting our moral back up.

I can honestly say that GoM and HoD helped reshape what you see now. But atleast it’s not a steamroll like last time.

Didn’t you guys pick up a guild or two from Kaining?

PeculiarFox.1578:

Well….I’d only be getting 3 hours anyways, so staying up it is.

I’m glad I can corrupt someone else to a sleepless night. <love>

PeculiarFox.1578:

Probably, I’m debating at whether or not I should go to sleep or get back on to go wvw against you all xD decisions decisions…

Stay up.

Gothahm.6274:

Does DH have a beef with AR or something? I’m so confused.

I love the fights. They’ll regret not focusing on you guys though.

titanlectro.5029:

I kept telling my guild-mates that DH would jump to the top of T6. Looks like I might be right… We shall see.

Borlis Pass always starts out slow at reset, and currently DH is allowing BP to stay very close to them in score, while focusing a lot of might on AR during the nighttime hours. I’m pretty sure this will cost them the match later this week, once BP comes out swinging during the weekdays.

Dual.8953:

Columba.9730:

Oozo.7856:

The thing I love about these kinds of threads are the large number of people who decide to play a class even though “it’s only good at killing noobs.”

Wouldn’t you rather play a class that is good at killing good players?

I guess there are just a lot of people out there willing to put themselves at a disadvantage in this game. Here’s to all the mesmers and thieves out there fighting that uphill battle.

This one’s for you. /tips the glass

TLDR: Thieves are very strong 1vN classes, but are actually pretty balanced in group fights.

The thing I dislike about these threads are self-appointed experts who basically rehash l2p when even players of their own class admit that the class is overpowered.

The thing I don’t like it ignorant players who know little about other classes slandering them and trying to ruin them so they’ll be brought down to thier level. I don’t complain about other classes or challenges. I analyse them and figure out how to deal with them. I have no respect for those who don’t do the same.

What about those of us who actually play the class extremely well, and don’t understand how others are having issues playing the class???

Arpheus.6918:

I was able to test the new behaviour of our pets during quite some fights and in my opinion the changes are really decent. Finally the rangers pet brings us a real advantage. The pet keeps track of thieves and mesmers to find them once they leave stealth.

I had the following situations:
Mesmer turns invisible + blink or whatever that ability is called. My pet attacks some illusion but as soon as he left stealth the pet immediately follows the real mesmer. I love it. No more guessing which is the real one. Our pet knows which is the real one as if he would smell it.
I really hope this won’t be changed any more because thats finally something that makes playing a ranger worth it.

Same with thieves. Once they leave stealth the pet follows them. That way you usually know in which direction the thief tried to escape

There is one thing that is important. Once the mesmer or thief goes into hide don’t give any commands to your pet. Just let it do whatever it wants. If you tell him to attack another target it will lose track, same if you switch pet. But if you let the pet do what it wants it will find the unstealthed character for you
I really start to like pets

Mesmers have some MAJOR bugs right now, but as a Thief, I’m not seeing the same things you are.

Solandri.9640:

jkctmc.8754:

I played my Thief, and not once did I experience this from Rangers.

If the ranger highlights and attacks a new target after the thief stealths, the pet will now have that as its primary target.

After the new primary target dies, the pet may resume chasing the previous target. This behavior hasn’t been consistent enough for me to draw any conclusions about it. Sometimes it doesn’t work, sometimes it survives even F3, and I have to call the pet back after each kill. Swapping pets always clears it.

It seems like the pet goes after anything that attacks it, regardless of what the Ranger does. I’d imagine Thieves who’ve put a condition that is still ticking on the pet, causing it to reagro once the Thief comes visible.

I still havn’t seen a Ranger pet to after my Thief, so it has to have something to do with whether or not the Thief has done damage to it, and a lingering condition still exists when they break stealth.

Xsorus.2507:

jkctmc.8754:

oZii.2864:

Daeqar.8965:

When it comes to thieves in WvW, they are what is likely the best class at executing a losing strategy. That strategy being lonewolf PvP in a large scale gametype.

If you want to move around the field alone, quickly, and potentially pick off stragglers, I can’t think of anything better than a thief. This does have some niche value in WvW for things like murdering dolyaks at low personnel costs, but if even a disproportionate fraction of a server is running these lonewolf spec thieves, they will get absolutely destroyed in WvW by the server running a tight, unstoppable ball of team specs like hammer warriors, guardians, eles, necros, etc. that support each other and play together. If folks ditch the narcissistic attitudes, they would realize that thieves are actually a very limited value class when it comes to winning WvW. The game is called Guild Wars for a reason.

Pretty much the only opportunity a thief has for a useful role in that winning, tightly-knit teamplay is just for on-demand blast finishers with shortbow. (No permastealth or burst combos here.) Bring two shortbow thieves: role filled. Everyone else re-roll a more useful class or be a scout/dolyak-killer (better yet, let pugs do it) and miss out on all mega-bag drops.

Hit the nail on the head but people will come with a counter argument that nobody cares about the objectives in WvW and everyone is just looking for small team fights/1vX.

We need to balance WvW around 1vX and 5v5’s and solo roamers that is what matters in WvW according to this thread.

You can take any camp with 2 people, and prior to the patch you could open any wall, or gate with four people, now you can do it with up to 25 people. You guys really think you need a Zerg to accomplish anything in WvW? O.O

I can solo any camp in WvW with my thief or ranger..I’m sure other classes don’t have trouble with it either.

Hell I can blow down a wall at a keep on my thief or ranger and take the keep just the same

I can do the same thing. I was just making sure I covered other peoples lack of skill. Anyone regardless of skill can do what I said above with those numbers.

oZii.2864:

Daeqar.8965:

When it comes to thieves in WvW, they are what is likely the best class at executing a losing strategy. That strategy being lonewolf PvP in a large scale gametype.

If you want to move around the field alone, quickly, and potentially pick off stragglers, I can’t think of anything better than a thief. This does have some niche value in WvW for things like murdering dolyaks at low personnel costs, but if even a disproportionate fraction of a server is running these lonewolf spec thieves, they will get absolutely destroyed in WvW by the server running a tight, unstoppable ball of team specs like hammer warriors, guardians, eles, necros, etc. that support each other and play together. If folks ditch the narcissistic attitudes, they would realize that thieves are actually a very limited value class when it comes to winning WvW. The game is called Guild Wars for a reason.

Pretty much the only opportunity a thief has for a useful role in that winning, tightly-knit teamplay is just for on-demand blast finishers with shortbow. (No permastealth or burst combos here.) Bring two shortbow thieves: role filled. Everyone else re-roll a more useful class or be a scout/dolyak-killer (better yet, let pugs do it) and miss out on all mega-bag drops.

Hit the nail on the head but people will come with a counter argument that nobody cares about the objectives in WvW and everyone is just looking for small team fights/1vX.

We need to balance WvW around 1vX and 5v5’s and solo roamers that is what matters in WvW according to this thread.

You can take any camp with 2 people, and prior to the patch you could open any wall, or gate with four people, now you can do it with up to 25 people. You guys really think you need a Zerg to accomplish anything in WvW? O.O

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.

The problem are in cooldowns. I can reapply conditions between the 16 second (Guardian), and the long 30 second cooldowns. I can apply a lot of Bleeds, Burning, and Poison between those cooldowns. Not to mention the other conditions. The Theif is the only class that doesn’t suffer from the 66% reuse on skills from Chill that the other classes do. That’s why I try to have as close to a permanent uptime on Chill that I can on any of my classes, and the primary reason I dominate Elementalists.

Not sure what class you are playing? Guard? The good Ele’s I’ve fought all have like 80% condition duration reduction anyway so none of that stuff matters :P I think Engies can pull off 80%+ as well.

Sure chill CD reduction doesn’t hurt a thief but same goes for a root on an Ele. It never sticks (it’s suppose to be their big counter). Just part of profession dynamics imo.

Don’t root the Elementalist, you Cripple, and Chill them. And there seems to be a hard cap to how far you can reduce the duration on conditions, because I don’t see them fall off as fast as you’re suggesting. My Guardian is a Meditation build designed around removing Conditions, and even I still see conditions a lot more than you’re saying.

See my sig for the classes I play.

Maybe they aren’t popular in your matchup. Anyone can get 65% reduction using food (40%) and Melandru runes (25%) then Eles can spec Geomancer’s Freedom which is another 33% reduction on Cripple, Chill and Root. They literally just run right through those conditions.

I’ll run some tests, but I’m pretty sure there is a hard cap to condition reduction.

But can we drop the nonsense. Your Elementalists are no better than mine, and mine are no better than yours. Everyone practically uses the same builds listed on the forums nowadays.

Straegen.2938:

This has been said before several times, but stealth is not an issue at all in sPvP. The only reason it is a significant issue in WvW is culling (soon to be removed) and Power/Crit stacking. Put a soft cap on Power/Crit and suddenly super builds that have insane damage out of nowhere no longer exist.

This is not sPvP, it is WvW.

In sPvP it is 100% about control points where stealth becomes a hinderance, so you do not want to stealth. Because of this, it lessens the desire to stealth, therefore in a round about way, stealth is greatly nerfed because you don’t want to stealth for fear of losing ground on the control points.

Karolis.4261:

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

The thing about thief con removal trait is it’s still based on hitting someone. Hide in shadows doesn’t really matter because it already removes most stuff. So blinding powder and refuge are the only con removals on demand without hitting someone. Refuge opens you up to a counter (luck based on dodge timing) so you are looking at blinding powder (which many don’t take) as the only sure thing along with Hide in Shadows.

People who block/immune/dodge C&D also stop the thief from blinding/healing/con-remove. It’s a huge part of fighting one. I love running into a trolly thief in the open field. Wait for them to use their heal then I mass invis everyone after second and you have trolly thief just either standing there or a refuge pops I get to try to punt him from. Then they eat a nice little burst combo and it’s time to either be bad and die or shadow-step and try to run away.

Basically the entire shadow arts line is only super erserm if people allow you melee them or fight near mobs.

Don’t forget combo fields that give stealth.

Oh yea d/p. I just go stand near those. Get hit by a Heartseeker at full health and revel them. Teleport near it to really surprise them.

The cool thing about Heartseeker, I can target something far away, and jump that direction, and not hit you.

Don’t forget the shortbow also has a blast finisher, that creates an Area Stealth. Works great with a utility I bet you havn’t considered.

You can target anyone you want, you will still hit that person that you land near, not the one you have on target.

You completely missed the point. You do not have to jump near someone. Do you guys really not know how this works, and how effective it is?

slingblade.1437:

firebreathz.7692:

slingblade.1437:

I watched my fern hound track and hit a thief at 1500 range last night. It was pretty cool because there were a half dozen allies around me that had no idea where the thief was, but I watched my good puppy dog run in a straight line down a slight ridge, out of sight, and then saw white numbers pop up. It may not work all the time, but it works part of the time, at least.

thats culling… not stealth..

It was most likely both. We fought the thief. My pet kept picking him up without me having to retarget him. When he realized he was in a fight he couldn’t win, he stealthed, fled, came out of stealth (but was culled) while still in aggro range of the pet, so the pet charged after him.

Some of the thieves are qqing about it:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Pet-chasing-me-to-the-end-of-the-world/first#post1548241

I played my Thief, and not once did I experience this from Rangers.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Columba.9730:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jportell.2197:

Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

The problem is, the people who want stealth for thieves nerfed will only settle with stealth being nerfed immensely without agreeing to any compromises or following up on any suggestions. They just want nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. And don’t even know specifically what they want. They just want Anet to nerf nerf nerf. Come on guys, you can use your heads, pose a solution instead of a whine and insult.

Completely untrue. I advocate a small change to one stealth timer, test and see if this prevents permastealthing. Yet the thief apologists act like the NRA and scream that any nerf destroys the class.

Nah, not completely. I actually agree to some of the viewpoints of people with suggestions, I just haven’t seen one by Xsorus except his agreement with phasing, which I’d have to go back and see what phasing even is.

I thought Xsorus was the one who suggested Caltrops and Choking Gas should break stealth?

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

The thing about thief con removal trait is it’s still based on hitting someone. Hide in shadows doesn’t really matter because it already removes most stuff. So blinding powder and refuge are the only con removals on demand without hitting someone. Refuge opens you up to a counter (luck based on dodge timing) so you are looking at blinding powder (which many don’t take) as the only sure thing along with Hide in Shadows.

People who block/immune/dodge C&D also stop the thief from blinding/healing/con-remove. It’s a huge part of fighting one. I love running into a trolly thief in the open field. Wait for them to use their heal then I mass invis everyone after second and you have trolly thief just either standing there or a refuge pops I get to try to punt him from. Then they eat a nice little burst combo and it’s time to either be bad and die or shadow-step and try to run away.

Basically the entire shadow arts line is only super erserm if people allow you melee them or fight near mobs.

Don’t forget combo fields that give stealth.

Oh yea d/p. I just go stand near those. Get hit by a Heartseeker at full health and revel them. Teleport near it to really surprise them.

The cool thing about Heartseeker, I can target something far away, and jump that direction, and not hit you.

Don’t forget the shortbow also has a blast finisher, that creates an Area Stealth. Works great with a utility I bet you havn’t considered.

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.

The problem are in cooldowns. I can reapply conditions between the 16 second (Guardian), and the long 30 second cooldowns. I can apply a lot of Bleeds, Burning, and Poison between those cooldowns. Not to mention the other conditions. The Theif is the only class that doesn’t suffer from the 66% reuse on skills from Chill that the other classes do. That’s why I try to have as close to a permanent uptime on Chill that I can on any of my classes, and the primary reason I dominate Elementalists.

Not sure what class you are playing? Guard? The good Ele’s I’ve fought all have like 80% condition duration reduction anyway so none of that stuff matters :P I think Engies can pull off 80%+ as well.

Sure chill CD reduction doesn’t hurt a thief but same goes for a root on an Ele. It never sticks (it’s suppose to be their big counter). Just part of profession dynamics imo.

Don’t root the Elementalist, you Cripple, and Chill them. And there seems to be a hard cap to how far you can reduce the duration on conditions, because I don’t see them fall off as fast as you’re suggesting. My Guardian is a Meditation build designed around removing Conditions, and even I still see conditions a lot more than you’re saying.

See my sig for the classes I play.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

jportell.2197:

jkctmc.8754:

Roysten.3456:

jportell.2197:

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.

I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.

Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.

Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.

The problem are in cooldowns. I can reapply conditions between the 16 second (Guardian), and the long 30 second cooldowns. I can apply a lot of Bleeds, Burning, and Poison between those cooldowns. Not to mention the other conditions. The Theif is the only class that doesn’t suffer from the 66% reuse on skills from Chill that the other classes do. That’s why I try to have as close to a permanent uptime on Chill that I can on any of my classes, and the primary reason I dominate Elementalists.

What initiative regen are you running/do you have the +3 initiative trait? jw

I will have to go look at my build when I get home. Been playing my wifes Necromancer the last two days, after taking a week off the game while waiting for the March patch.

My Thief is not a condition Thief, when I’m talking about reapplying conditions, I’m talking about my other classes, and their builds. My Thief is a crit/bunker build that utilizes Omnom Pie, and other crit Sigils to be more effective.

Stiv.1820:

The thing about thief con removal trait is it’s still based on hitting someone. Hide in shadows doesn’t really matter because it already removes most stuff. So blinding powder and refuge are the only con removals on demand without hitting someone. Refuge opens you up to a counter (luck based on dodge timing) so you are looking at blinding powder (which many don’t take) as the only sure thing along with Hide in Shadows.

People who block/immune/dodge C&D also stop the thief from blinding/healing/con-remove. It’s a huge part of fighting one. I love running into a trolly thief in the open field. Wait for them to use their heal then I mass invis everyone after second and you have trolly thief just either standing there or a refuge pops I get to try to punt him from. Then they eat a nice little burst combo and it’s time to either be bad and die or shadow-step and try to run away.

Basically the entire shadow arts line is only super erserm if people allow you melee them or fight near mobs.

Don’t forget combo fields that give stealth.

Stiv.1820:

jportell.2197:

jkctmc.8754:

Roysten.3456:

jportell.2197:

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.

I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.

Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.

Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.

The problem are in cooldowns. I can reapply conditions between the 16 second (Guardian), and the long 30 second cooldowns. I can apply a lot of Bleeds, Burning, and Poison between those cooldowns. Not to mention the other conditions. The Theif is the only class that doesn’t suffer from the 66% reuse on skills from Chill that the other classes do. That’s why I try to have as close to a permanent uptime on Chill that I can on any of my classes, and the primary reason I dominate Elementalists.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jportell.2197:

Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.

No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.

That’s the cards you’re playing. You’re doing everything in your power to make the thread unconstructive, so you can go cry to the mods to close it. Wow you really should take a look at yourself now.

I’ve said repeatedly I disagree with Xsorus on nerfing the Thief, but I’ll be kitten if I’ll sit back and watch you, and others downplay the strength of the Thief to make your points. There is nothing I dislike more, than people who will lie to get ahead in life, and this makes gaming no exception.

I even pleaded with you to quit the nonsense you’ve been spewing, and try to convince Xsorus that getting buffs for other classes like the Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer is a better course of action. But you’re more inclined to throw around the l2p, or umad nonsense because you can’t construct a reasonable argument.

My only quarrel with you is that you always seem mad, and you don’t make your points clear. You throw insults like no tomorrow and you don’t seem to try to understand my frustration with various things. My arguments are directed towards differnt people because they all have different views. You took my stance against Xsorus and made it into your own battle when it didn’t even direct attention towards you. That’s what pushes my buttons.

And like before, I agree with your method of improvement. I am not trying to downplay the thief. I am just trying to bring it to the level where it really is. It is not a God Tier. But it’s a lot better than most classes.

What a lot of people have showed interest in is nerfing stealth, which I do not agree with because for once we have a game that almost does stealth justice. If we revert back to a transparency/fake stealth or remove it totally, it would just make me sad as to how adventurous gw2 seems to be in the combat design. I don’t mind buffing other classes, or modding other areas to make stealth less potent. But I still want a thief to be able to disappear when he stealhes. We can remove CnD, lower stealth attacks, inc reveal debuff, remove infiltraitor’s arrow, etc. But the mechanic works well and it’s refreshing to see in a game for once.

There you go playing the umad bro card again. Do you know how silly that is? Words generally convey no emotions, and those emotions are generally applied by the reader, rather than the writer, unless the writer is a professional, and knows how to play on the readers emotions. If you’re seeing anger, maybe you’re the one having the issue?

As discussed with another poster, and I agree with him, at this point in the games timeline we should be balancing classes with themselves. First by fixing traits, and weapon choices so that everything is viable to certain builds, and nothing is worthless. Start with classes who have the greatest issues, like the Ranger, Necromancer, and Engineer, and move on to the other classes, yes even the Thief.

For example the Thief P/P is rather worthless, and needs a complete revamp.

jportell.2197:

jkctmc.8754:

Roysten.3456:

jportell.2197:

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.

I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.

Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.

I think the change would pigeon hole all Thieves into taking Hide in Shadows, unlike my build performs better with Signet of Malice. I would rather see the Mesmer, and other classes get more reliable condition removals instead.