Guild Wars 2

Roysten.3456:

jportell.2197:

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.

I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jportell.2197:

Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.

No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.

That’s the cards you’re playing. You’re doing everything in your power to make the thread unconstructive, so you can go cry to the mods to close it. Wow you really should take a look at yourself now.

I’ve said repeatedly I disagree with Xsorus on nerfing the Thief, but I’ll be kitten if I’ll sit back and watch you, and others downplay the strength of the Thief to make your points. There is nothing I dislike more, than people who will lie to get ahead in life, and this makes gaming no exception.

I even pleaded with you to quit the nonsense you’ve been spewing, and try to convince Xsorus that getting buffs for other classes like the Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer is a better course of action. But you’re more inclined to throw around the l2p, or umad nonsense because you can’t construct a reasonable argument.

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

Art.9820:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Lol @ thread.

If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.

Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.

The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).

This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.

Heals a little?

I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…

To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.

You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)

you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.

And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision

When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?

He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.

When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.

An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.

I can kill any elementalist solo, on my Ranger. I absolutely dominate them on my Thief, and Mesmer, though could fight them for ever on my Guardian, and no one dies.

There is no way in hell a Elementalist could fight more than two people, if I was there. You’re either lying, or you really do suck at playing the Thief.

You honestly can’t see the benefit of my five man Thief team killing a Zerg, who tries for a camp, and fails because of us? You really can not see the benefit of this? Holy mother of God, take of the blinders, and see the world around you.

A five man group of Thieves can starve an entire map of its most precious resources, and take towers to boot, or even open the wall of a keep for their Zerg to come hit at their leisure. If you think that doesn’t contribute to WvW, I don’t know what to say.

5 Thieves is cool and all but it’s not needed and less powerful than many many other mixes. Having a couple thieves in a 5 man is great for refuge and zerg juking. I have two other thieves and I ran my thief with for a long time. We recently did 2 thieves 1 Mesmer which outperforms 3 thieves. As long as you are organised having more profs is better but yes, you still need a couple thieves for burst and/or zerg juking.

You’re correct. Anytime you can pick up a single Mesmer, it strengthens the team ten-fold.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Why are you so angry all the time. Since your first post, you just seem sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo freaking kitten for whatever reason. Screw stealth, take a chill pill as my advice first. Then actually face a good ele. Oh and I’ll play your card, if the ele doesn’t get away after facing a zerg and messing with them, they must REALLY SUCK with an ele. And using a camp npc for distraction isn’t really fighting a zerg head on. Show me a video or this can go on for 12 more pages bud. Oh and fyi take a chill pill if you forgot by the time you read this sentence.

hahahahahah

Now you’re playing the umad bro card? Wow!!!

I guess all the elementalists I fight are bad, and all the ones you fight are good. I get your line of arguments now, I really do.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

Art.9820:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Lol @ thread.

If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.

Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.

The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).

This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.

Heals a little?

I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…

To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.

You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)

you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.

And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision

When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?

He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.

When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.

Oh yea.. imagine 5 poison arrows.. oh no….. one condition clear…

I now know why you suck at playing the Thief.

Dude, you are calling everyone who doesn’t play your thief, a bad thief. Seriously stop it and provide better feedback.

And you’re saying he isn’t contributing anything, when in fact he is, and can.

You have not provided anything yet, but to say no, no, no, no. What ideas have you given to fix the game as it stands now?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

Art.9820:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Lol @ thread.

If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.

Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.

The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).

This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.

Heals a little?

I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…

To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.

You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)

you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.

And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision

When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?

He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.

When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.

An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.

I can kill any elementalist solo, on my Ranger. I absolutely dominate them on my Thief, and Mesmer, though could fight them for ever on my Guardian, and no one dies.

There is no way in hell an Elementalist could fight more than two people, if I was there. You’re either lying, or you really do suck at playing the Thief.

You honestly can’t see the benefit of my five man Thief team killing a Zerg, who tries for a camp, and fails because of us? You really can not see the benefit of this? Holy mother of God, take off the blinders, and see the world around you.

A five man group of Thieves can starve an entire map of its most precious resources, and take towers to boot, or even open the wall of a keep for their Zerg to come hit at their leisure. If you think that doesn’t contribute to WvW, I don’t know what to say.

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

Art.9820:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Lol @ thread.

If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.

Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.

The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).

This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.

Heals a little?

I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…

To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.

You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)

you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.

And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision

When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?

He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.

When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.

Oh yea.. imagine 5 poison arrows.. oh no….. one condition clear…

I now know why you suck at playing the Thief.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus, have you ever tried to learn how to overcome current thieves. If Anet never fixed this in the next decade and you wanted to pvp. What would you do to take down a thief? Or would you just quit or play a thief. Because a real player would learn how to fight a thief on his main—which I assume is your ranger. But seems like you already took the short route and rolled a thief believing it’s stealth mechanic is the best in the game.

Also, I have no idea why you think running away for you is a win. If you ran away, in retrospect, the enemy got away from you as well and they can continue onward to do whatever they want. You may have slowed him down, but he also prevented you from harassing others who you could have potentially killed. I see all your points very close minded and not considering other perspectives. I would enjoy having a better dicussion if you would answer things through the light of opposing perspectives instead of your stubborn “My opinions are right, you guys don’t get it at all, sarcasm sarcasm grin” attitude.

And to support the other side as a decent player, fine, if you want a stealth nerf, at most increase the revealed debuff, or make them more weak/vulnerable in stealth aka take more damage, do less damage with stealthed skills. And any skill/utility move proc the revealed debuff. I do not believe in changing the stealth mechanic though.

He’s one person fighting 10 to 30 people, and living. Are you really going to use this kind of argument? Imagine if there were five, or even ten doing this. My five man Thief team often destroys entire Zergs.

Art.9820:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Lol @ thread.

If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.

Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.

The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).

This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.

Heals a little?

I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…

To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.

You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)

you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.

And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision

When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?

He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.

When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.

@jcbroe

I can get behind that. There are so many traits that are useless, or subpar to others, it isn’t funny. Not to mention weapons, or weapon sets that just don’t make sense, or are useless. See my proposed change for Warriors, and banners.

That’s pretty much what I want for the Ranger to be honest, and I believe that alone would fix a lot of the issues with the Ranger.

dunnberry.2964:

Really like how ARBL looks right now, very good mix of red and green

How hard do the doors hit?

Garrison had one person in it, defending it. <laughs>

I’ll have to test this to see if it is true.

oZii.2864:

jkctmc.8754:

As far as I knew xiv, like Xsorus are both Thieves, and Xsorus has already provided videos of him face rolling on his Thief, and feeling it is wrong. These guys are not approaching this as losing to a Thief a tired, old argument that does not help us out, but instead they’re approaching this as a Thief, and thinking what they are able to do is wrong.

If you’re having issues killing other classes and builds, I’m sure someone can help you out. Maybe these two can help you attain what they’re doing with the Thief?

Their arguments are all based on small skirmishes 1v1 scenarios, 2v2, etc. even xsorus who says he can 1v7 is trolling 1v7 he certainly isn’t killing 7 people in a 1v7.

Which me and a few other tried to point out isn’t what WvW is about. I don’t know don’t know a whole lot about guardians but I have seen guardians tank 10 people. Does that mean guardian is op cause he can tank 10 people and a engi can’t? No cause thats not how you should look at class balance.

Also claims that thieves break WvW is well silly. The problem with the people that play thieves that make claims of their OPness in actuality aren’t OP at all. Just cause you can run around trolling some people doesn’t mean your OP. If you kill someone unsuspecting or with cooldowns not up or someone that is just a bad player that doesn’t mean your OP.

Look at Xsorus video at the camp most people already picked it apart that alot of the people he downed where either upleveled or had no situational awareness. How can you claim that what you are doing is OP when you don’t know the skill level of your opponent? You don’t know what gear they are wearing? You don’t know what level they are just that they aren’t 80. You are running food buffs but they aren’t etc.

Is the sigil of bloodlust OP? If I am fighting a duel and I have 250 extra power and he isn’t running sigil of bloodlust same build same class am I more powerful than him absolutely in that context yes can he still beat me yup. 250 extra power is almost like having 2 power trait lines. Does that matter in WvW nope. In that little scenario to me and him it matters but in WvW it doesn’t thats why you can’t just balance of the scenarios presented in here.

There are so many factors in WvW environment that you can’t just say this class can do this but this class can’t need nerf. Everyone making statements to nerf thief pretty much all use this “If I was on my alt guardian he would have died” well if your guardian and your thief where the same class why would you need to make different class in the first place?

So why not convince them the other classes they play, like in the case of Xsorus, the Ranger need buffs?

You guys are approaching this all wrong in saying a Thief can’t do this, can’t do that, needs this, needs that because it is all wrong. Find a new approach.

In every MMO I’ve played, people like you argue just like you do, and you know what? Classes get nerfed, and gutted to uselessness. I warn them every time to change thier approach, but no one listens. I’m pleading with you now to change the behavior, and lets get buffs out to classes that need it.

jcbroe.4329:

@jkctmc;
Rangers, when built correctly, have the potential to be one of the top duelists in the game in pvp. Xsorus even makes multiple videos showing the ability to duel on the class and how effective the class can be.

I’m actually glad you brought that up. Look at what Xsorus can do on his Thief.

He can’t do anything close to that on a Ranger, no one can. It’s not that the Ranger isn’t viable, it is what we can do with other classes is so far above what you can do with the Ranger that really frustrates us.

I mean hell brother, I was playing my wifes 52 Necro today, a class that is supposed to have a lot of issues, got it to 57, running solo in WvW a lot, and killed every single Ranger I came across solo. I mean come on man, I’m able to pull off some pretty stupid things with the other classes I play (see my sig), and when I play my Ranger I can’t help but feel wanting. Unless for some reason when I play the other classes, I all of a sudden become a God, but am a fumbling fool when I play the Ranger.

LOCO.1785:

jkctmc.8754:

As far as I knew xiv, like Xsorus are both Thieves, and Xsorus has already provided videos of him face rolling on his Thief, and feeling it is wrong. These guys are not approaching this as losing to a Thief a tired, old argument that does not help us out, but instead they’re approaching this as a Thief, and thinking what they are able to do is wrong.

If you’re having issues killing other classes and builds, I’m sure someone can help you out. Maybe these two can help you attain what they’re doing with the Thief?

And LOL at insinuating I’m struggling with other classes. Where did you get that idea or are you just trying to troll?

Now I remember why I loathe visiting this forum.

Now you understand how you make others feel using the stupidity that they must suck at the game, if they’re complaining about Thieves, because they probably died to them?

Funny how the tide turns when your type of words are used against you. Maybe you shouldn’t visit the forums, I agree.

But provide those videos first.

Dual.8953:

jkctmc.8754:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

Columba. I extend that challenge to you too. S/D Theif, TA, Orr, no stealth, recorded. No hiding behind your party. Make it happen.

It’s very easy btw.

You must either be new to thief or not very good.

You’re skirting the issue. If it’s so easy then prove it.

Sorry but I’m not making a video showing you evasive build thief. There’s already a few around and they can facetank PVE crap all day, better than most other classes.

So you can’t prove it then.
As you should know, S/D’s only decent attack skills are its auto-attack and tactical strike. In that respect it’s the more defensive of the 2 sword sets, lacking a true burst move and needing stealth to achieve its control style gameplay. The fact that it requires stealth to Daze unlike S/P, makes it more in tune with the traits in the Shadow Arts tree, where kitten P’s access to blind and daze without stealth and having Pistol Whip makes the set more offensively oriented out of necessity.

This is a glass canon build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGzvpWAjjR4

Slot Signet of Malice, and his health would probably never drop. I have a bunker build, and when I come up to a camp, I switch to Signet of Malice, and take the entire game with ease, solo.

Why do you have an issue with the Thief in PvE?

That is not Sword/Dagger.

Use the tool for the job. You could easily duplicate the same thing with D/D because of the quick double attack of the Dagger auto attack. I’ll try it with S/D tomorrow, but I primarily run S/P+Shortbow for the teleports. If I remember right, Flanking Strike is actually pretty nice against tougher, single mobs like Veterans or some Champions, and Sword auto attack hits multiple targets if you position right, so I’m pretty sure it is doable with my current build.

LOCO.1785:

Are you talking about the video of them rolling under leveled/geared terrible players?

Because there’s hundreds of those vids floating around the net for every class. Hardly a case to nerf anything.

Anyway, I’m done for w/e. I’m off to actually enjoy the game.

Can you link these videos of Rangers, Engineers, and Necromancers killing, or fighting as many people as Xsorus does in his video, for that length of time, and living, and/or scoring kills?

I’d love to see them.

LOCO.1785:

jkctmc.8754:

LOCO.1785:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

There is so much wrong with this post, I have to address it.

Thieves don’t dominate the top end tiers of sPvP, because those players are skilled and actually know how to counter stealth with ease. You won’t find any GC cookie cutter thieves running around there, because it’s a gimmick build designed to instagib noobs.

You do realize a sPvP Thief does nearly half the damage of a WvW Thief, right? Why in the hell are you guys bringing up sPvP, in the WvW forums? They nerfed sPvP so the carebears could better handle the game.

I didn’t bring it up, xiv did. I was just calling him out on his BS, which he totally ignored because he knows he’s wrong.

Just demanding nerfs, because he doesn’t know how to deal with thieves. It’s sad.

As far as I knew xiv, like Xsorus are both Thieves, and Xsorus has already provided videos of him face rolling on his Thief, and feeling it is wrong. These guys are not approaching this as losing to a Thief a tired, old argument that does not help us out, but instead they’re approaching this as a Thief, and thinking what they are able to do is wrong.

If you’re having issues killing other classes and builds, I’m sure someone can help you out. Maybe these two can help you attain what they’re doing with the Thief?

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

xiv.7136:

Dual.8953:

Columba. I extend that challenge to you too. S/D Theif, TA, Orr, no stealth, recorded. No hiding behind your party. Make it happen.

It’s very easy btw.

You must either be new to thief or not very good.

You’re skirting the issue. If it’s so easy then prove it.

Sorry but I’m not making a video showing you evasive build thief. There’s already a few around and they can facetank PVE crap all day, better than most other classes.

So you can’t prove it then.
As you should know, S/D’s only decent attack skills are its auto-attack and tactical strike. In that respect it’s the more defensive of the 2 sword sets, lacking a true burst move and needing stealth to achieve its control style gameplay. The fact that it requires stealth to Daze unlike S/P, makes it more in tune with the traits in the Shadow Arts tree, where kitten P’s access to blind and daze without stealth and having Pistol Whip makes the set more offensively oriented out of necessity.

This is a glass canon build.

Slot Signet of Malice, and his health would probably never drop. I have a bunker build, and when I come up to a camp, I switch to Signet of Malice, and take the entire game with ease, solo.

Why do you have an issue with the Thief in PvE?

LOCO.1785:

xiv.7136:

Xsorus is right.

Lots of thieves in here trying too hard to defend the indefensible.

No, nerfing stealth will not destroy the thief class.

The class mechanic is steal by the way, not stealth – the same way the necro mechanic is DS and not fear.

But that’s neither here nor there.

Stealth can be nerfed just fine without invalidating thieves. Right now, it’s too strong.

The only reason thieves don’t dominate the sPVP/tPVP meta is because you can’t cap a point in stealth. In WVW this isn’t a major weakness.

Also viability in PVE? You can finish a dungeon run with 5 untraited thieves in green gear. Who the hell cares about PVE balance.

There is so much wrong with this post, I have to address it.

Thieves don’t dominate the top end tiers of sPvP, because those players are skilled and actually know how to counter stealth with ease. You won’t find any GC cookie cutter thieves running around there, because it’s a gimmick build designed to instagib noobs.

You do realize a sPvP Thief does nearly half the damage of a WvW Thief, right? Why in the hell are you guys bringing up sPvP, in the WvW forums? They nerfed sPvP so the carebears could better handle the game.

A Thief does not need stealth to do well guys, seriously drop that BS. I have not, nor will I ever call for a nerf to any class, in any game. But for crying out loud, I run a bunker Thief, that only has one stealth, my heal. I do better than a Bunker Guardian, so drop the nonsense.

Doomdesire.9365:

jkctmc.8754:

Doom, I’ll take that deal. I eat Guardians for lunch on my Bunker Thief.

Sure. You versus me and my warrior friend. Anytime spvp(not on reset night). If you want wvw you will have to wait until i gear and level him.

sPvP is far, far, far different than WvW. I’m sick and tired of people bringing up sPvP in the WvW forums. I’ll wait for you to level.

Doom, I’ll take that deal. I eat Guardians for lunch on my Bunker Thief.

Narcissus.1058:

This has probably been said, but a nerf for stealth is a nerf to the entire thief class, without it they are nothing

This isn’t true. I run a bunker Thief, with my heal being my only stealth, and do just fine. My Mesmer now has more stealth than my Thief.

jcbroe.4329:

jkctmc.8754:

@jcbroe

The issue though is with people like even Jazenn, who have said in a round about way that if you feel there is something wrong with the Ranger, you just suck playing the Ranger. That is why things get blown out of proportions. This very thread pretty much says the same thing, just quietly so.

The issue isn’t playing the Ranger well, it is that you can do it so much easier, and better with the other classes.

I even laid out a thread with some ideas to choose from.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Changes-the-Ranger-needs-for-WVW/first

And in this thread I lay out changes I’d like to see in WvW period.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Requesting-WvW-status-update/page/2#post1485377

I would honestly have to agree with the sentiment that a large majority of the community sucks at playing the ranger.
From posts I have read by the people I mentioned in my previous post, it seems that they have accepted that there are changes that the class needs. Factually, there is not a single class in the game that the doesn’t need balance and mechanic changes.

The majority of the issues with the ranger come from, as a generalized summary, lack of effective build versatility. I have already previously stated in full detail the issues I personally have in this very thread, people are more than welcome to disagree with me. I can only state the impressions I get from my own experiences with the class, as well as the other classes that I do play. Saying that, I can honestly say that the breakdown post (that is like 3 posts long) highlights in extremity the only things I feel are wrong with the class from a mostly pvp perspective.

There is only one person I have found on the forums that I find over-exaggerates the rangers capabilities to use their opinion and biases to insult and derail other peoples constructive criticism. Out of respect (and forum rules) I will not name that person, although it wouldn’t be overly difficult for an active forum member in the ranger section to figure out who that person is.

There is no doubt there are novice players playing the Ranger, that need to get better. There is no doubt in my mind this exists, but this is not an issue solely owned by the Ranger profession. The difference is, a novice player on other classes, most noticeable, the Thief, and/or the Mesmer have a much easier time on those classes until they learn them.

This also solidifies, and shines a very bright light on another issue with the Ranger. Once you get to the best you possibly can on the class, you can do so much better on other classes (D/D, P/D, S/D) Thieves, (Confusion AE, Invulnerability) Mesmers, and so on.

You mention jack of all trades as if it is a strength of the Ranger, yet there isn’t anything you can’t do equally, or better on other classes, and some classes have some of the best weapon choices in the game, that provide both damage, and CC, like the Warrior hammer, or extreme mobility far beyond what you can gain with the Ranger.

I think people need to quit trolling the Ranger forums, and recognize the class needs some help, just like the Engineer. I just got done fighting an 80 Engineer I know who is fully geared, with a new 52 Necro to a draw, eventually running away because he got help by a Ranger, and I got away from both of them. It was the first time playing the Necro because it was my wifes toon. I don’t see why people are opposed to buffing classes like the Ranger, and Engineer when it is glaringly obvious they are lacking in some, if not many areas.

@jcbroe

The issue though is with people like even Jazenn, who have said in a round about way that if you feel there is something wrong with the Ranger, you just suck playing the Ranger. That is why things get blown out of proportions. This very thread pretty much says the same thing, just quietly so.

The issue isn’t playing the Ranger well, it is that you can do it so much easier, and better with the other classes.

I even laid out a thread with some ideas to choose from.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Changes-the-Ranger-needs-for-WVW/first

And in this thread I lay out changes I’d like to see in WvW period.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Requesting-WvW-status-update/page/2#post1485377

Was a let down to see nerfs this last patch.

Xsorus.2507:

jkctmc.8754:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

My Bunker Thief can kill d/d Elementalists, there is no reason the other builds can’t. Hell, I beat D/D Elementalists on my Ranger easier than I kill Warriors.

Some D/D ele’s can be tough, I know I’ve fought them kitten D and could kill some of them, Some of them though were frankly impossible to bring down, and while they couldn’t kill me, I couldn’t kill them.

P/D though i’ve not ran into that though, I’ve walked over all the D/D ele’s ive come across, It could also be because i’ve not ran into a large amount of good ones either, They’re a bit more FOTM now so with more numbers of them out, the more often you’ll run into crappier ones.

It’s funny to see Thieves complain about the D/D Elementalist, as if they’re OP considering.

As a Bunker Thief I can’t kill a P/D Thief, but he can’t kill me either, and I generally force D/D Thieves to run, though I’ve had a few take my 22k HP, and 3300 Armor down to below 1k health in a short amount of time. I absolutely dominate D/D Elementalists, though I’ve had a few who were extremely hard to kill, or they ran.

As a Ranger, a P/D Thief is unkillable, and he can kill me. Because I’m also bunker build, if I time my dodges correctly, my pet eats up D/D Thieves, but a smart one isn’t going to stick around to die. I litterally eat D/D Elementalists with Shortbow, even though some fights can be long.

My Mesmer… Some days I feel invulnerable, other days I feel like I can’t stay alive. The only Thief that gives me trouble the most are P/D Thieves, and the occasional 20k in 2 second Thieves.

My Warrior… I blow people up in seconds, or they blow me up in seconds. I absolutely dominate bunker builds with this guy, especially D/D Elementalists.

My Guardian… I havn’t played since my builds have felt the nerfs to Guardian the most.

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

My Bunker Thief can kill d/d Elementalists, there is no reason the other builds can’t. Hell, I beat D/D Elementalists on my Ranger easier than I kill Warriors.

jcbroe; There has been much more feedback from developers on the Thief forums, asking them how to make the Thief better, with very little on the Ranger forums. How long should we wait before we get tired of it? I’ve been playing my Mesmer, and Thief a lot lately, and quite frankly it is nonesense. I play the Ranger very well, but my GOD is it kitten easy to play the other classes in comparison.

Keep in mind, I only WvW. My friends, and guild have to literally beg me for hours before I do PvE, and sPvP is so boring, it isn’t funny. Though WvW is getting just as boring too.

Npac.3476:

@jkctmc

PAXA thief here. What fight are are you talking about?

Whatever it was I honestly have no memory of it (don’t really 1v1 or remember individual fights). Not trying to be rude, just wanted to clarify this argument ha.

It was south ruins, by the water. Very long fight between me, and the Thief. Eventually another Mesmer, from Anvil Rock came in, and attacked the Thief, I sat down, and watched the fight, and watched the Thief kill the Mesmer. Afterwards we both <bow> and go out seperate ways.

You were with I believe a Guardian when I initially engaged. I stealth, and move at a great distance from you, you followed, the Guardian went off towards the camp.

I’m the Ranger who dueled several of you as well behind the windmill, weeks before this.

osif.8673:

Sorry, I don’t remember every conversation I have in a video game let alone real life. I remember giving you tips about how to fight thieves as a mesmer. I don’t control the actions of my guildies… who knows? Maybe he missed your post completely.

Edit: you can add an invader to your party by having them targeted->open party menu->click invite. And yes, I do not think any upscale would every beat or draw a PAXA member. That’s why I asked you to elaborate. Didn’t expect you to act so defensively.

Well it happened. <shrug>

osif.8673:

jkctmc.8754:

I stopped reading at the point you state I must be lying about my upleveled 76, even though I sent you a tell in game when it happened, and even sent a message on the forums. I wanted to talk to him/her to see if there was anything I should work on with the class, and thought the fight was awesome.

But you prove my point. Unless it is caught on video, you deny it. You know kitten well I wouldn’t lie about something like that.

It looks to me like you never even began to read my post. I never even insinuated you were lying. I asked you to elaborate on the situation because I find the scenario hard to believe from what you had written. I do not remember every conversations I have had with you. If you wanted to speak with him, you could have simply invited him to your group. I haven’t proven anything to your point. You seem to be just closed minded and only hear what you want to hear.

First, how do you invite someone in game, without knowing their personal information? Second, we talked about it more than once. It happened at the ruins, when I engaged him, and a PAXA guardian, stealthing away the Thief chased me, and we fought by the water for a long time. After awhile, a Mesmer from my side showed up, a level 80 and engaged him. I stopped attacking, went over, sat down and watched them fight, and watched him kill the other Mesmer.

Shortly after making a post on the forums to talk to him, I talked to you in-game because I saw you log on. You were busy fighting, so sent you an in-game mail, and a private message on the forums. On the forums you said this particular person reads the forums, and that he’ll probably talk to me when he had time. That never happened, and now you don’t even remember the conversation we had on it.

I went back and read it all. As for Godfather, I’m not sure what is up his ars. I havn’t been on in what, a week, and half, maybe two weeks? The culling now is not fun for me since I run solo almost all the time, so I’m taking a short break until the WvW patch happens. I just jumped on the forums because I heard there was a patch, and decided to read everything, and get caught up.

You did say; but no upscaled would ever beat or draw any PAXA member., did you not?

Was a mistake. Same old BS, different day.

osif.8673:

jkctmc.8754:

With all due respect, I have never seen a single time PAXA has admitted to losing an equal fight, that wasn’t caught on video. That was a whole two times, in months.

I can point out some of our loses if you’d like. We have lost to AD (I think that’s what you meant by the whole “video” comment) and NEWL have given us memorable even fight losses, albiet that was a long time ago. A more recent fight that we had against HUNT which started out as a 3v6 which turned into a 4v6 once our thief decided to come back from AFK can make a claim that they beat us. It was fair-ish. Once we had our 5th come online that tipped the scales to our favor. I haven’t been part of any other even-ish fights that we have lost, so like I said before; I cannot say that we have not lost any, but I do doubt the claims of some people.

jkctmc.8754:

I couldn’t even get your Thief to say; “Good fight”, when I fought him to a draw, on my then 76 Mesmer, even after another 80 Mesmer showed up, and I sat down and watched him kill that Mesmer, only to bow, and go our seperate ways.

The majority of PAXA doesn’t care for 1v1s. Me and a couple others like them. If it was one of our 80 thieves that you fought to a draw with your then 76 mesmer, I find that extremely hard to believe. It’s not a knock against you, but no upscaled would ever beat or draw any PAXA member. But I cannot comment on the situation with the other mesmer showing up and the circumstances of the fight, so you might have to elaborate on that one.

jkctmc.8754:

A lot of people from both Anvil Rock, and Borlis Pass have given PAXA props, but to my knowledge, and I’m on the forums a lot, I have yet to see PAXA give anyone props, well unless the fights were caught on video.

Maybe you should read the forums a little more carefully, Jscull gave HUNT props in this thread even I believe. We give credit where credit is due. We don’t always come to the forums to give props, doesn’t mean we don’t know a good fight when we have one. I encountered an ALS scepter/dagger ele yesterday while roaming on my warrior who played against me very well and killed me twice (+1 more person from ALS aside from an asura mesmer who has some skill. 2 total I’ve seen so far ). Just because I didn’t come to the forums doesn’t mean that I didn’t give props. A simple /bow I think did well enough to get the message across.

jkctmc.8754:

That is the major issue many have with PAXA to be honest, and the only issue I have ever had with the guild.

The major issue that PAXA has is that we argue with gentlemen (I would use a different word of coice if I didn’t think my post would get deleted for it) such as Godfather, who is actually in your guild so it seems. While I for one believe he is just trying to troll, he comes off as quite the baddy who doesn’t understand game mechanics. Not to mention the countless other people that like to come rage on the forums after we wipe them.

I stopped reading at the point you state I must be lying about my upleveled 76, even though I sent you a tell in game when it happened, and even sent a message on the forums. I wanted to talk to him/her to see if there was anything I should work on with the class, and thought the fight was awesome.

But you prove my point. Unless it is caught on video, you deny it. You know kitten well I wouldn’t lie about something like that.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

This is the WvW forums, NOT the nerfed, and dumbed down state sPvP is. Why would you even bring up the boring aspect of sPvP, in the WvW forums?

You act as if you know what WvW is about—which obviously you don’t. I said if you really want to say a class is OP, play in sPvP where the class actually matters—not where the equipment, food buffs, culling, huge maps, etc come into play.

No matter how much you want to make WvW a balanced pvp-zone, it’s not going to be unless Anet puts a lvl req on WvW and an equipment req. And frankly, a lot of people in WvW do not know how to fight as mentioned by some others. Most of them really suck at fighting and kudos to you for owning them.

Seriously guys, L2P. and for you jkctmc, get over yourself.

I have never, nor will I ever say any class is OP, in any game. Learn to read.

All I’m saying is this. If you’re dying as a Thief, enough that you believe other classes don’t need some kind of buff, you need to learn how to play. I have to be both tired, and drunk to die on my Thief, even then, I rarely ever die.

Quit bringing up sPvP in a WvW forums. No one cares about that carebear system.

Why would other classes need a buff and not the thief, if the class wasn’t OP? Why is thief not OP if you can literally wreck anyone unless you are tired or drunk? Are you sure you aren’t inebriated currently? And way to ignore my other points.

Don’t talk about class balancing when you are playing a game field that isn’t balanced. sPvP does it a lot better than WvW (newsflash). And regardless if you hate sPvP or not, the way it sets up armor/equipment/stats is more equal than WvW will ever be. If you really want to know which class needs a buff you need to play them on an equal playing field. I’ll take buffs any day just for the sake of buffs, but not because Thief is at a better state than any other class (because it’s not)

A server of many really good thieves can still not stop a good WvW servers from stomping points and winning. What part of that do you not understand. Quit bringing deathmatches into WvW forum. This is about capturing points, learn to play that game first.

For starters, sPvP is the illusion of balance, so saying it is epitome of balance only ruins your argument. You are correct, the current format is a zerg vs zerg format. Grats, you have figured it out man. You’re da man. Wish I had thought of it. I mean after DAoC, War, and so on, who would have thought to come up with such an idea?

I could easily take 20 Thieves, and catpure points, as easy as any other group made up of a scattering of classes. Hell, I take keeps/towers in my Karma train runs with people levels 1-80, when everyone is leveling alts. Doing points is easy, and anyone can do it. I’m not sure why you’re even going there, but ok.

You can not judge a class in sPvP, in regards to WvW. Quit even suggesting it. It’s not even worth discussing it.

As for classes needing buffed, pointing to OP classes, that is a very odd way to look at things. I don’t see any class as OP, but see a lot of bugs that need fixed, and classes like the Engineer, and Ranger needing buffs. Why is that so hard to understand?

osif.8673:

Vigrith.8136:

Done and Done.
I would say that GOAT has lost to and beat PAXA with equal (give or take a few) numbers regularly. The issue as I see it is that PAXA (or maybe just Jscull) seem to suffer from some type of group-size dysmorphia wherein they (or just Jscull) perceive that when they win their group was always smaller than those they beat and therefore it was their skill that allowed them to win. Conversely when they lose they are always outnumbered and therefore their skills cannot be questioned. I see PAXA (or just Jscull) criticizing GOAT for the same reasons they criticize BURN and ALS, yet our roster is a tiny fraction of theirs. GOAT routinely runs with groups of just 5-10 just as often as we run with 10-20 and a whole lot more than we run with 30+ which we may be able to muster once a week. Maybe this is just an isolated phenomenon with GOAT and we are the puffer fish of WvW guilds. I would guess the issue is more about PAXA (or just Jscull) always having a built in excuse because they depend so much on their image of the super strike team that destroys zergs and only loses when it was a foregone conclusion anyway.

I’m not going to say that PAXA has never lost to an even GOAT group since I’m not in every PAXA group. I will say that I have never been in any of those fights. I’m not trying to say that I make a difference, I am saying that everyone in PAXA has no problem with admitting defeat, as we have before, and usually talk about it when we do lose. If there has been a situation that a PAXA group has lost to an even-ish sized GOAT group, I have not heard about it and I do doubt your word on beating us in a fair fight.

With all due respect, I have never seen a single time PAXA has admitted to losing an equal fight, that wasn’t caught on video. That was a whole two times, in months.

I couldn’t even get your Thief to say; “Good fight”, when I fought him to a draw, on my then 76 Mesmer, even after another 80 Mesmer showed up, and I sat down and watched him kill that Mesmer, only to bow, and go our seperate ways.

A lot of people from both Anvil Rock, and Borlis Pass have given PAXA props, but to my knowledge, and I’m on the forums a lot, I have yet to see PAXA give anyone props, well unless the fights were caught on video.

That is the major issue many have with PAXA to be honest, and the only issue I have ever had with the guild.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

This is the WvW forums, NOT the nerfed, and dumbed down state sPvP is. Why would you even bring up the boring aspect of sPvP, in the WvW forums?

You act as if you know what WvW is about—which obviously you don’t. I said if you really want to say a class is OP, play in sPvP where the class actually matters—not where the equipment, food buffs, culling, huge maps, etc come into play.

No matter how much you want to make WvW a balanced pvp-zone, it’s not going to be unless Anet puts a lvl req on WvW and an equipment req. And frankly, a lot of people in WvW do not know how to fight as mentioned by some others. Most of them really suck at fighting and kudos to you for owning them.

Seriously guys, L2P. and for you jkctmc, get over yourself.

I have never, nor will I ever say any class is OP, in any game. Learn to read.

All I’m saying is this. If you’re dying as a Thief, enough that you believe other classes don’t need some kind of buff, you need to learn how to play. I have to be both tired, and drunk to die on my Thief, even then, I rarely ever die.

Quit bringing up sPvP in a WvW forums. No one cares about that carebear system.

Daecollo.9578:

Ranger Pet’s and NPCs can now track stealth thieves, we did get a nerf.

I havn’t seen this yet. Proof?

Jazenn.7526:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jazenn.7526:

Dahkeus.8243:

Also, if you’re still unclear on it, this is why people make groups with 4x warrior + 1 mesmer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EUhUj1aL0yA

The group can stack 25 might immediately plus fury. If a group like that hits harder content and needs more healing/protective support, they will bring a guardian or ele.

Wow that is impressive damage. I don’t know if 4 of any other class can do that, I guess that is what the warrior excels at. Damage. However, I think that if you group together any of the same class like that, the results can be suprising. Damage does seem to stand out against NPC and in dungeons, but in wvw or spvp, I think some other professions can really shine when grouped, and even in PvE situations that involve many enemies. For example, 4 necros with constant aoe conditions, perma chill, constant fear, epidemic, and 25 stacks of vulnerability would be insane. 4 mesmers all spamming clones and illusions. Which one is real? 25 stacks of confusion and damage coming in from everywhere, seems like a tough fight. 4 rangers, every step you take is a trap, 25 stacks of bleed plus burn, poison, and chill distributed around. Perma regen and condi removal from all the healings springs. Entangle spam, 4 rampaging rangers with jags and QZ, 4 nature spirits giving 2k aoe regen a second. Seems nice thinking about all of that.

Well, here’s a guardian in the same group setup. Sadly, the profession that is heavily support focused can outdps us as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ac2NGGjjPsU

Even with full berserker gear, a ranger won’t deal this kind of damage largely because the game is designed to favor melee…

…which would be fine if we had a melee build that could dps like this, but the only melee builds we have for PvE pretty much require a serious investment into Wilderness Survival and/or Nature Magic for toughness/vitality.

I will honestly argue that. A feline pet plus damage specced ranger under time warp. Jag stealth, Rao, and Sick ’em. I think a ranger can put out similar to that guardian

I would love to see the video of this.

Xsorus.2507:

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

DAoC, among other MMOs also had a see stealth class.

Sifu.6527:

jkctmc.8754:

I run a bunker style Thief now, with very little stealth, running primary sword to teleport around, and confuse the enemy. My bunker Thief outperforms my bunker Guardian, and Bunker Warrior ten-fold. Thieves who know how to play the class will be perfectly fine.

Even running very little, to no stealth, I die rarely, if at all. Hell, I have more stealth on my Mesmer now, than I do my Thief.

Quit being bads, and learn the Thief please. You don’t need stealth to win fights.

“This is what a good Thief looks like, and how noobish he makes the Ranger class look”

You made the above comment in response to a dagger/dagger thief video. The thief in the video uses stealth heavily.

So what is it? Is the thief in the video bad and need to learn the thief??? Make up your mind.

I never once said they couldn’t do great with stealth, just that they don’t need it to do great things. My current Thief build utilizes a bunker style of play, while utilizing teleportation with Shortbow, and Sword “2” ability (which by the way is our best stun break) to confuse those I’m fighting. It’s worked so great, it pains me to get on my bunker Guardian, and bunker Warrior. I exploit the hell out of stealth on my Mesmer though.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

jkctmc.8754:

There are videos in WvW of any class but the Ranger, and Engineer killing 20-50 players with only four of them. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos in WvW of Thieves fighting 1v20, or 1v30, scoring kills, and staying alive for a long time, sometimes getting away. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos of Warriors soloing boss mobs groups have issues with. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

The fastest dungeon runs have been done with 4 Warriors, with videos to prove it. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

It’s easy to say you can do something, but there is no proof. If it can be done, and you know this, then provide the proof.

Who are you speaking too?

OP, and those who support him like Jazenn.

There are videos in WvW of any class but the Ranger, and Engineer killing 20-50 players with only four of them. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos in WvW of Thieves fighting 1v20, or 1v30, scoring kills, and staying alive for a long time, sometimes getting away. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

There are videos of Warriors soloing boss mobs groups have issues with. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

The fastest dungeon runs have been done with 4 Warriors, with videos to prove it. When will you provide a video that compares for the Ranger?

It’s easy to say you can do something, but there is no proof. If it can be done, and you know this, then provide the proof. The biggest issues that revolve around the Ranger are in WvW, and their lack of utility compared to other classes, on top of the lack of group buffage in WvW, that other classes provide, without giving up much, if anything at all.

iCryptik.1496:

jkctmc.8754:

iCryptik.1496:

All the videos I see posted are people posting vids on some of the most skilled thiefs out there, or posting vids of them losing to thiefs, when they are using a build that may be the weakest to fight a thief.

tl;dr – Different builds fair better against thiefs than other builds. If your constantly losing to a thief, rethink your build and use a different one. Or die, and deal with it.

Funny that huh. Xsorus posted a video of himself, on his thief.

I don’t get what’s “funny” about it. I’m not really sure what your insinuating really. A good thief is a deadly opponent, they are tricky to counter, but can be countered. I main multiple lvl 80’s and have every class except engi and thief to 80. I have learned over time that if I use X build on this class, I’ll have trouble with class A, B, and sometimes C, but not D – E – F – or G.

The point I’m making is that certain builds are strong against certain class types, while being weak against others. If you find yourself losing to X or Y class, use a build that strongly counters that class.

If you don’t, then you deserve to be killed by a thief or any other class.

You completely miss the point. You said that people are losing to Thieves, yet Xsorus you know the original poster you insulted puts up a video of his Thief, you know him playing the Thief, doing the very things he thinks is overpowered, and you still believe it is because he died to a Thief, without watching his videos of killing Thieves on his Ranger, you know one of the weakest classes in WvW.

I mean seriously. I rarely if ever die on my Thief. With over 10k kills, I have less than 100 deaths.

How in the world do you die on your Thief?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

This is the WvW forums, NOT the nerfed, and dumbed down state sPvP is. Why would you even bring up the boring aspect of sPvP, in the WvW forums?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

iCryptik.1496:

All the videos I see posted are people posting vids on some of the most skilled thiefs out there, or posting vids of them losing to thiefs, when they are using a build that may be the weakest to fight a thief.

tl;dr – Different builds fair better against thiefs than other builds. If your constantly losing to a thief, rethink your build and use a different one. Or die, and deal with it.

Funny that huh. Xsorus posted a video of himself, on his thief.

I run a bunker style Thief now, with very little stealth, running primary sword to teleport around, and confuse the enemy. My bunker Thief outperforms my bunker Guardian, and Bunker Warrior ten-fold. Thieves who know how to play the class will be perfectly fine.

Even running very little, to no stealth, I die rarely, if at all. Hell, I have more stealth on my Mesmer now, than I do my Thief.

Quit being bads, and learn the Thief please. You don’t need stealth to win fights.

Wow, there are a lot of bad Thieves in here. You should rarely, if ever die as a Thief. If you do, don’t post in this thread because you are bad.

Tribio.8531:

jkctmc.8754:

I usually just run in, kill the archers while everything is on my pet, switch pets after they’re dead, and tank the rest. Thanks to Omnom Pie, the more melee on me, the more heals I get.

I’m quite amazed that you would let your pet die, gives you the recharge of 60 seconds.. Also, I try not to be dependant of whatever snack I used.. :p Mostly in WvW I actually never use any consumable..
Pure play, I like! ;-)

I don’t let the pet die, I switch it after the archers are dead, before finishing off the rest of the camp.

they’re = archers