Guild Wars 2

Like repicking up a target that was in stealth because for obvious reasons dropping target when people go to stealth should happen.

Also look for any sigils that stack/titles under name and to see if they have an off hand weapon. Clones have none of these. Also world completion badges. That is like a huge target over the players head.

Yeah I have it was my main and I got bored with the game play of it (shocker I know according to Anet I was “Doing it wrong”) But in any case look at the daze duration. 1.5 seconds is still 50% longer than the daze duration of any class most of which are capped at 1 second. And the ability to choose to return to shadow trap instead of instantly going there no matter what sounds pretty good to me and adds to mobility for the most mobile class in the game.

Vision.3541:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

“blink is fine” nerf the one that takes skill?

sorry i dissagree. blink is so easy to use and illusionary leap to actually use it as a stun break which very few mesmers do actually is quite impressive i wouldnt consider taking that away from them.

Phase retreat doesnt take skill, its one button

swap takes 2 buttons, both are imbalanced

How many stun breakers take skill really? Wouldn’t it defeat the purpose of a stun breaker being just that if you had to press more than a 1 button at a time to do it? Also as far as weapons are concerned mesmers have VERY few instant abilities the only auto attack that is instant is the freaking sword one every other auto attack is channeled somewhat. Actually the only two instant weapon ablities we have are the swapping and PR both of which have to do with teleporting and clone placement. I think there is a pattern here and one that is intentional. And the short CD on these used to be shorter until they got nerfed.

Mesmers rely on illusions in order to accomplish their goals. They need illusions to accomplish some of their highest damage and control, and without the illusions, they become fairly fragile. They can deal with enemy boons better than most classes, but enemy conditions can often be a problem. They share some of the stealth and mobility that the Thief enjoys, but suffer from a low health pool if you get past all their tricks.

So you stunned the mesmer but they still have a trick up their sleeve. According to the devs. Things like phase retreat are working as intended. And Swap I believe that is also working as intended… No just thinking here when considering Visions statement
“I do feel however when youve got the 12 second teleport on top of whichever stun breakers youre running, the avoidance skill cycle recharges faster than most melee classes abilities to hold you.” What melee class are you referring to? Essentially all melee classes auto attacks hit more than one target directly in front of them and griping about our abilities to use clones and swap with them is griping about how the class is supposed to function… Kinda ridiculous if you ask me. I don’t gripe about how I get insta downed by a warrior also we don’t have other classes ability to block as often as they do so our way of dmg mitigation is things like PR and the Swap after IL but usually that swap is something we don’t see as a stun breaker but a gap closer and an Immob. And these skills have behaved this way since BWE1 which gives me the impression that they are most likely working as intended or if they are not working as intended then they either A) Wont be dealt with at all and you should just figure out when to time your stuns. or B.) are so far down the priority list that you shouldn’t hold your breath. We are an extremely fragile class and if we have CD’s just like everyone else except well thieves so if you learn to counter us and know when we have used what we have used you will be fine. But coming to the forums whining about iLeap which yes this is a whine thread I don’t care how you try to paint it is ridiculous as in it is one of smallest problems people have with mesmers if anyone else really does have this problem.

I’m down with that. But you do not decide what we as a class can or cannot keep. And this is the first thread I have seen where ANYONE gripes about an iLeap in terms of it being too powerful or that its working better than what you think. It really is the first I’ve seen it in PVP WVW or the mesmer threads.

APPLAUSE Yeah these 3 classes are really stuck in one build… :/ And its sad.

And both are key to a mesmers play style which is distraction and confusion. And we have VERY few abilities that grant mobility in combat aside from these two. Blink is instant and breaks stun. These other two are not OP as they give a squishy class some semblance of survivability.

Caps are for emphasis apologies for that. In any case you may not feel these abilities hold a candle to portal when they really do (look at CD duration of option to return and so on). And if thieves are so selfish and the mechanic would stay for thief only then why even get it? You already have several instant transport options. You don’t need another and you don’t need a mod to make it seem like stealth is even more powerful than it is now.

Single target melee? Mmmm… Sounds like a thief! Sucks when someone does the poof he’s gone to you guys huh?

Yeah in other areas but not mobility. I am sorry portal for the thieves just no. You guys have enough in that area. And nerfing burst damage should be accompanied with buffs SOMEWHERE else… I hear P/P thieves feel left out. But the 20 stacks of might for shattering was removed almost immediately. Sadly we actually felt like we could compete with thieves in burst. But if you look on the thief forum they are asking for thieves to get the mesmer portal. I just say no. Give it to necros or engies but not an exact cookie cutter replica. Thieves you guys are fine where you are fine but need buffs some where and definite nerfs in other areas. Just like mesmers, just like eles, just like guardians, just like warriors. Rangers, Necros, and engis need buffs all the way around.

Except some Immobs such as binding roots depend on destroying what traps you. Not arguing that there needs to be some tweaking but I think that since its instant cast which many other classes have it is able to be used while stunned… I think this is an oversight.

ensoriki.5789:

You can’t compare 17s, Shadow Return’s to Portal.
Well you can, but they obviously cannot compete with Portal for it’s goal.
Shadow Trap is the most like it, and it wonky for a couple reasons, including the profession it being on, being arguably the most fragile. They’re also 1-person only, and Shadow Trap is useless unless someone so happens to trigger it.

Actually I can compare shadow returns 17s To portal. WHY? Because portal says in the tool tip that the exit portal lasts for 20 seconds… Really though it only lasts for 10… You were saying? Wonky for a couple of reasons? Shadow trap has just as much if not more tactical advantage than portal because of the length of time its there and while you guys may be OH SO FRAGILE it brings you back and you are immediately in stealth and able to do your CnD steal backstab instagib combo that I hear everyone griping about. Thieves aren’t meant for group utility they are assassins rogues… ninjas if you will. NOT MEANT TO HAVE MASS GROUP TRANSIT. You guys are fine and do not need this mechanic shared because you already have so much in demand for pvp. It needs to be given to engi’s or necros… End of story. Thieves may like getting it but it will do nothing but enrage most of the community a large majority of which already hate the profession not for the people playing it but the extreme flaws that come with it making it over the top.

Tell me what other class does? Mesmer mobility in combat relies on clones… Without those our mobility is laughable at best. MAYBE D/D eles can match you but that is barely so and ANet already said that D/D ele’s were on their watch list… So NERF INCOMING FOR THEM. So out of skills that I gave you that INSTANTLY move you to a target location plus a freaking signet that grants 25% passive increase in speed plus ALL THE BUFFS YOU GET from traiting in your stealth line that bolster things for you while in stealth please tell me how you are lacking mobility in and out of combat? Don’t even try to talk about mesmer blink at a measley 900 range. And our portal relying on us dropping a second one else where. Give me a specific example of a class that has better mobility than you in as many respects as you guys get. PLEASE.

As a mesmer… I must say fighting a tanky necro is extremely annoying especially since most mesmers run shatter heavy which leaves little room for condi removal. I use signet of illusions which is a big help in keeping clones up longer and possibly fooling you guys however (and I am giving away trade secrets shhhh!) if a mesmer has a map completion star, a title such as combat healer or been there done that. It does not show on the clones. Hopefully this can help. I know mesmers are good in some respects but we are still just as vulnerable as other classes when you learn to exploit our weaknesses.

WHICH APPARENTLY THE DEVS think it so because they are sharing it. I agree though. Rangers should not get it. They should however get love in other respects.

killcannon.2576:

Snow White.9680:

Northlander.4619:

Snow White.9680:

Actually, I play a pve mesmer.

I play PvE mesmer as well using staff and scepter/focus as my weapons. It is true that the AoEs in the weapons itself are not highly prevalent but all shatters are AoEs as well. They have about same radius as untraited lava font has.

I’ve focused on clone generation which means I can push out both mind wrack and cry of frustration with three clones both pretty much the moment I open battle. This means that in events I hit most of the enemies in a group since they like to hug. Additionally I can drop chaos storm and phantasmal warden for extra AoE damage.

I understand that is it POSSIBLE to aoe on a mesmer. The problem is the amount of time / set up. Especially since other classes can hit 1 spell and do equal or more dmg.

So should classes be brought to a middle ground? Should ele’s then have clones? Should Warriors have stealth? Should engies then have portals? Mesmers can do things that other classes can not do. It’s the nature of having distinct professions that certain classes should excel in certain areas that other do not, and vice versa. I would not give up my main ele’s ability to lay down effective aoe to do single target damage in line with a thief. That’s what the thief profession excels at, as it should be.

Well said… All professions have certain class mechanics that should make them special… Trying to Nerf something to bring it in line with other classes is a bad design philosophy. Nerfing something to bring it inline within the class…. Better but still a bad design philosophy. Buffing something to bring it on par with the highly favorable builds inside the class… There is something worth looking at… And I hope is something they do. Balance needs to be within classes before between classes and even then it should not be PERFECTLY balanced which will lead to extremely stale play. There needs to be some form of imbalance even if only slight. To keep it interesting.

Last class deserving of portal is thief. You guys have it in several different aspects for yourselves giving you the current best mobility in and out of combat. To give portal mechanic to the thief would be too much and much of the community especially mesmers which I think should have a big impact on where it goes since it is OUR MECHANIC getting shared think that Engineers or Necros should get something similar to portal not an exact replica but close enough to where people stop whining about mesmers (which still won’t happen). But thieves teleporting abilities

Shadow Step/Shadow Return: AoE requires LOS but still has good range and can be a quick retreat card if necessary.
Infiltrators strike: Same concept as shadow step/return but target oriented.
Infiltrators Signet: Doesn’t give ability to return but still instantly teleports to foe.
Shadow Trap: Placed and can be left when triggered the thief has 10 seconds to choose to return to the position of the trap while stealthed. Very portal esque right here except it doesn’t require the thief to place a secondary trap down and the thief can move in any direction with in a certain range of that trap and come back IF he knows an enemy is there.

Come now thieves… Let other classes get some love you guys will be fine and dandy and still HATED by most other classes. I sincerely feel you should be asking ANet to buff your less popular builds back up not wondering if you will get a portal type mechanic since you already have so many (even if they aren’t group friendly)

LOL… yeah seriously… Do the game designers and people calling the shots have a crazy obsession with the thieves? Its ridiculous all classes EVEN some thieves think that some thief traits need toned down while others need buffed to be made viable. But from left field… they decide that AOE is a problem. Not stealth… Not a GC thief’s ability to insta down any bunker in the game… Bunkers are a response to a bigger problem… Burst….

It doesn’t break the stun but it is useful for when you are trapped inside a crystal in a dungeon (things of that effect are terrible) and few other skills are able to do that. Even after you do the retreat you are still stunned and not attacking for the duration of the stun… I think that because it is an instant cast and the way Anet designed instant cast abilities they work during stun even if they don’t break stun… So I don’t feel it is a class specific thing but any class that has instant cast abilities.

Archaon.6245:

jportell.2197:

I am sick of mesmers getting nerfed while all these classes get buffed and they clearly dont need it lol.

Can’t remember one sigle patch were thieves got buffed…please tell me wtf are you talking about. 20 might shatter uh? Talkin’ bs much?

From the Nov. 15 patch updates (Just started as far back as I could go.)

Shadow Trap:This skill no longer shadowsteps the thief when the trap is triggered. This skill now has two additional abilities: The first ability becomes available when Shadow Trap is cast and will destroy the current trap. The second ability, Shadow Pursuit, becomes available when an enemy triggers the trap. The thief may choose to activate this ability and shadowstep to the enemy that triggered the trap. If this ability is not activated after 10 seconds, the ability will fade and Shadow Trap will be available.

Sounds like a buff to me to have the ability to choose to go back or not. Also sounds kind of like a portal ability giving the thief the option to go back or not what’s even BETTER for the thief is the cooldown is MUCH MUCH MUCH shorter than mesmer and the trap lasts exponentially longer than our freaking portal.

Stab: Damage for this skill has been normalized so that it doesn’t deal less damage from behind the target.

Again sounds like a buff.

Tactical Strike:This skill’s damage has been increased by 10% in all formats. This skill’s daze duration has been reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP.
Okay so you got a half second nerf in daze duration. As far as I know though this is the ONLY SKILL in the game that dazes for longer than a second. So please tell me how you think thieves are so horribly off or never get buffed.

I can think of one maybe 2 examples where mesmers got ACTUAL buffs… The first of which was the shattered strength which was an unintended bug but when they “fixed” said bug we were worse off than before it’s existence. HIGHLY ANNOYING. Portal gotten nerfed repeatedly and now it is getting shared. I also hear that THIEVES think they should get the portal mechanic and their class is most deserving YOU ALREADY HAVE IT IN 3 different formats! Infiltrators strike. Shadow Step/Shadow Return/ Shadow Trap. Please tell me you are joking and don’t honestly believe that your class should get ANOTHER portal mechanic.

The theory behind the mesmer is distraction and confusion having said that. When the sword 3 stun breaker which I suppose is fine if it isnt but DON’T even think about griping with phase retreat that is our saving grace. Now back to sword three the ability to swap it lasts for a VERY VERY short amount of time and often times because iLeap is SO buggy when the mesmer does swap the clone is behind the actual mesmer (happened to me a lot) or not even to the target… So as far as iLeap is concerned Anet has a lot of work to do with fixing the way this skill performs. If they didn’t intend it as a stun breaker then either fix that it does break stun or fix the tool tip. But also they need to fix how it behaves to begin with.

Runcore.5107:

I just want for thieves some compensation and I dont care if this compensation will be portal or something else but Necromancers, Rangers and Elementalists have our +25% speed signets so I want something from them in return for our original signet and this portal is nice candidate for give to thieves as compensation for our stolen speed signet. They have something which belong to thief so thief want something what belong to other clasess. Its so easy. Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.

I dont know on which dream cloud you live now but we live on world of trade which mean I give you something and you give me something in return. Developers still owe something to thieves for steal their original signet and giving it to other classes.

THE LAST GOD kitten THING THAT THIEVES NEED IS MORE MOBILITY WITH THE PORTAL LIKE MECHANIC! JUST NO! You have shadow step you have shadow trap you have scorpion wire you have shadow shot. JUST NO! Give it to classes that are severely lacking in demand which thieves are MOST DEF NOT! You have the highest burst the best mobility in and out of combat and an invisible shield in stealth because most players are too kitten stupid to be proactive and move once a thief goes stealth to help ensure they don’t get their BS combo off. NOT TO MENTION you have a million traits that encourage stealth like regen initiative while stealth REGEN HEALTH while stealthed. 100% chance to crit when attacking from stealth JUST NO. You should not get it to compensate for anything because in most respects even in the god awful AOE argument you still do more damage than most other classes with the freaking cluster bomb, and are WAY WAY WAY better off than over half the classes in this circus show of a game.

^And I know that Jon Sharp and others have said it will not be blanket here but they said in the video that it is across the board. The post here looks more like saving face over what was said in the video. I want numbers I want classes they are looking at in terms of the AOE damage and how they will balance inside the classes out if they go through with the nerf.

Okay so I have followed this thread from beginning until the post just above me… AOE… OP? Really? I main a mes and we have 3 reliable AOE abilities 2 of which depend on our weap choices… Our slot skill AOES do 0 count it 0 direct damage but depend on the enemy to do something in reaction. So let me lay out the AOE abilities we have… Mind Wrack does High AOE damage. But can be blocked dodged and so on. Plus clones can be killed before reaching the target making it much less effective. The only way to really be stuck in a mindwrack is if you are crippled or immobilized. Mind Stab GS#3 if anyone EVER thought that this ability was OP then well they are doing it wrong. Damage is less than our effing auto attack and it removes a boon on hit but the cast time is SO LONG as well as the effect to trigger that by the time it actually pops out of the ground at your target location the enemy is already 500 units in the opposite direction. Chaos storm apply random boons to yourself and allies and random conditions to your foes. This is the only way a mesmer can innately apply more than 1 or 2 damaging conditions at a time and none of these conditions last for longer than a few seconds. ANet devs…. I will believe your AOE needs to be nerfed philosophy when my chaos storm is as crazy damaging as the kitten risen illusionists in the Ruined City of Arah… Now I know its a dungeon and the enemies are supposed to be challenging…. But 1 second inside that chaos storm dropped over half my health not geared as a glass cannon…. You can let me believe you care about balance when you take a hard look at how you balance the power in several of your NPC mobs. Until then I take all comments you make about balance with a grain of salt. That being said balance WITHIN classes. SURE thats great! Make the mesmer glamour or mantra build more viable. Balance BETWEEN classes…. Tread lightly friends. A game where all classes are perfectly balanced leads to stale play. If class A can do one thing AMAZINGLY well but class B cannot you do not balance to where class B now has an exact cookie cutter replica of class A. You day okay what can class B do that class A cannot? How do we change the way that skill performs to bring it that one skill up so that people look at class B and go Wow they do this amazingly well and it really helps us deal with class A. It needs to be handled case by case not blanket.

So if they nerf AOE damage… Then Nerf Bunkers… Then nerf Burst…. Doesn’t that put us to where we are right now?

Mister Mustard.7203:

As I’ve said before, I wish they’d just completely scrap the ability, and give us a different mobility ability that fits the Mesmer theme instead. Maybe a mimic of RTL that sends you in one direction and a clone in the opposite.

Does the game really benefit from people using Portal as a crutch to move either large groups in WvW or for the Mesmer to cover multiple points in SPvP? I think the class needs an ability which can be used tactfully to gain a maneuverability advantage on the opponent, but I don’t see that the game benefits from relying on Portal at all.

Like phase retreat but better? And maybe make it so we can choose the direction we go like in RTL… It would be cool if they removed one of the torch skills and replaced it with what you just said. I applaud thee.

^That right there…. Thieves seem to rule this game and it is annoying. It is why I take particular satisfaction in destroying thieves.

Adding to Mesmer:
1. Duelist Discipline: Increase the range and damage of your “pitol” skills (including phantasm) Recharge 20% faster First issue. It DECREASES the damage of the phantasmal duelist significantly. On the mesmer bugs thread there are screen shots showing proof it also makes it a 100% combo finisher. This bug needs fixed extremely fast as it really hurts mesmers use as a pistol but also makes the duelist “OP” as some would put by making it a 100% projectile finisher. If they increased the damage by using duelist discipline and kept it as a 20% physical projectile finisher I think most pistol mesmers would be happy.

2. Signet of illusions: Passively grants more health to illusions. It does but it takes about 10 seconds from the time the illusion is summoned for them to actually get the extra health.

3. Illusionary Leap: Creat a clone that leaps to your foe and cripples them. If it is on any sort of slant be it up or down and the mesmer is running the clone will just stay put sometimes for 5 seconds before moving.

Well the devs said in the broadcast that before it happens they will do balancing WITHIN classes to make certain builds and traits more viable than they were before when compared to other builds with in the same class. So I feel like engi’s and rangers should be getting some love in that as well as necros.

Thieves have shadow step and shadow trap one of which has a longer range both of which have a longer range than mesmer blink and one of which they can choose to return to for a longer amount of time. So I do not think thieves or Ele’s should get any access to this mechanic in any way.

Mesmers only have 2 reliable AOE skills that are weapons based and our mind wrack is target based but the explosion hits other characters…. I just hope that they don’t nerf us further. Also D/D eles sorry but your guy’s damage is way bigger than a thieves… It is true. And it is more sustainable. But I hope they make more weapons/builds viable for classes before the nerf bat comes out.

And the reflection is only good if you know you are gonna be fighting ranged players… I would personally rather still have the MW has a higher crit chance by 10%.

So now… Nerf thieves AND Ele’s cuz I am sick of mesmers getting nerfed while all these classes get buffed and they clearly dont need it lol. Seriously though. Mesmers can’t hope to have near that much burst damage that often…

I would prefer that portal got rebuffed especially now that they HAVE confirmed it will be a mechanic that other classes have access to. Its a great get out of jail free card for us and other classes in the game already have much better mobility but I think a necro portal type thing would be cool since they are obviously very neglected.

And the fact that it comes at a cost to the players still makes mesmers a better choice but doesn’t force teams to bring us so maybe ppl will stop whining.

Okay so I just did some dungeons with mimic… This thing has just earned a place on my skill bar… U have to tank the first projectile but it blocks the rest after and what ever damage you took on the first projectile gets thrown back in the target of your choosings face. One scenario I did 3k damage just off of that to a boss. It is really a good skill if those that have looked at it scoffingly haven’t tried it try it against a projectile enemy it is 110% more effective then feed back (which i notice still lets projectiles through if you start it after they start a chain attack which… WTF?) But mimic will still reflect even if they are in a chain projectile attack. Seriously TRY IT.

Which is something all the PvP qq mesmer threads seem to ignore…

This is something I am not happy with at all really but I must live with it I guess. However if you go on the mesmer forums there are about 20 some odd pages of issues that have not been fixed many of which have been there since launch some of them even BWE2… :/ Anet really needs to fix all the bad things about our class before they start sharing what few good things we have.

Oh I never said anything about removing RTL if you look at my other posts. I have actually used it as examples of classes that have great mobility compared to mesmers while trying to defend the keep portal as a mesmer only mechanic. If they are giving portal to any class it should be a necro or an engi as those guys just need some love in general. Guardians do not need t because their entire purpose is to sit on one point and take as much damage as possible without dying. Ele’s and thieves don’t need it because they already move around the map better than any other classes in the game.

How do you think mesmers feel about us having the portal mechanic given to other classes… And seriously if Ele’s or thieves get portal type skills I am going to scream.

Because people will still whine that they can’t do mechanic A, B, or C. But other classes can which is why you pick your classes wisely and learn to play that class.

Maybe then give them something like that. But as long as Ele’s have access to RTL and that huge group swiftness boon that they can get with the staff (i know its two diff weapon sets) they do not need portal esque mechanics.

This is very true which Is why i hope they leave mind wrack alone because mesmers have to choose how they evade and if there are any enemies closer to them than their target if they can reposition better to evade… I hope it is a bug that gets fixed and not something they did intentionally.

I would like something that is in the traits that can be used outside of battle. We have the compounding celerity trait that makes us move faster for each active illusion but it only works inside battle since our illusions can’t follow us outside of it. If they buffed the focus in other ways as well I would like number 1 most.

The fact that Ele’s can burst, bunker, and have mobility to match a thieves w/o a portal mechanic already makes them too much. Also in general mesmers that slot portal are not going to be as burst heavy as mesmers that slot for burst or mesmers that slot all defensive skills (null field/feed back/arc thievery). My point is D/d ele’s don’t need anything else to make them more viable. The only class that can bunker better than them are guardians and even then it isn’t by much and they can spit half a map distance instantaneously with out having to drop an initial portal somewhere. IDK if you play ele so you are bias in that way but now that I know some aspects of portal are going to be shared to other classes the last classes that should get it are ele’s. You have had sound reasoning else where but giving this type of mechanic to a class that already exceeds most others at burst/mobility/bunkering is ludicrous and is something that I hope no dev in their right mind would do.

Yeah this has seriously kitten me off… We have no reliable way to gain speed buffs. Hell even engineers can have CONSTANT swiftness on kit swaps in the adept trait line. We have to go all the way in grandmaster to get our focus skills reduced to give us longer speed buffs. cuz well Signet of Insp can suck it.

I thought it didn’t feel like 20s when portal was being used… lol… Do we know if they are going to increase our glamour durations with all these fixes?

Mindwrack damage increases with the max number of illusions but the illusions individual damage decreases with the number of illusions that are out. Sounds fairly balanced to me…

Sharing portal. Classes I would like to see get it. Engi/Necro. Different ways of working of course and by god it better not have the same group utility… If a necro gets something along the lines of a thievees shadow step/shadow return that may be cool. Someone mentioned and Engineer portal kit or some form of mass transit like that. Sounds cool but a little too gimmicky to work properly. Warriors they need other buffs to help them out not a mass transit ability. Guardians are meant to be bunkers stay in one place and be unkillable. Eles… Don’t need it because they outmatch thieves in mobility (d/d eles) and thieves have their kitten shadow refuge.