Guild Wars 2

I had a long argument with another person about keeping the portal mechanic mesmer… Not long after it was stated that the portal mechanic is getting shared.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/illusionaryleap-disabled-while-stunned/page/2#post1261518

Please go to the thread and voice your opinion! If enough of us are heard then maybe some wack job idea like this will never come to fruition.

No and Yes.

I want them to address the long list of bugs that have plagued the mesmer class since BWE1. Duelist Discipline trait isn’t ever freaking spelled correctly and the tooltip reads “Increases range and power of pitol skills” It not only doesn’t do that but it changes it to a 100% combo finisher but cuts the damage in half. So it makes it to powerful but useless in the same trait. I want illusionary leap to actually be able to work on the z-axis instead of just standing there for 3 seconds if you are on a freaking slope (maybe then I would be okay with the swap not breaking stun). I want the clone generated from deceptive evasion to attack what I am targeted on not some random bunny then disappearing making that clone useless. I want our phase retreat to not teleport us into walls there by rendering us useless to our teams. I want our stealth skills to stack like a thieves (unless ANet doesn’t want that to be so). I want our skills that state they block/reflect projectiles to actually do that. If we get hit with barrage from a ranger neither feed back nor mimic work properly. So it wastes our utility slot. Do I think that mesmers are sooo terribly bad off right now absolutely not. But I do hope that we don’t continually suffer nerfs seeing as we have gotten them in every patch since release and there by becoming a useless class.

Also for your reading pleasure a note from Jonathan Sharp in regards to Mesmers and other classes slipperiness:

We want the Thief to be the class that most “slips through your fingers”. Other classes like the Ele and Mes have some of it too (and rightly so), but if anyone is escaping a fight, that should be a slippery Thief.

And I feel this is true thieves can disengage fights much more easily than us (actually we can’t disengage at all seeing as we have no speed buff unless we use a focus thereby forcing us into a weapon choice). So we should be slippery we should be able to open gaps if we get stunned. We aren’t meant to just stand there and let you pound on us stunned or not.

daydream.2938:

jportell.2197:

^Because players determine meta game not developers. The number of combinations with every class for builds are really limitless people are just so narrow minded

The number of viable specs isnt nearly limitless.

Viable is a matter of perspective and possible with all classes just depends on traits armor skills weapons and runes. Now that being said some classes need balanced within themselves before being balanced between each other.

Okay so if you look on the sPvP thread under Illusionary Leap Disabled while stunned. I am having a very heated argument with someone that
A. Wants illusionary leap to get some form of nerf because the swap breaks stun and he doesn’t see that as fair because we can do it so often and the tool tip doesn’t mention it.
B. Wants phase retreat to not be used while stunned because while it doesn’t break stun it moves us out of melee.

I have told him several times that these are instant cast abilities and that is why they work while stunned because this is universal to all instant cast abilities whether they break stun or not. So I’m thinking that to get them to not work while stunned Anet would have to do some serious fancy foot work to change that. So his rebuttal was increase the CD to match say Shield Bash on a Warrior which is 25 seconds. That would mean that on a staff mesmers would only have one skill available aside from auto attack under 20 seconds which is iWarlock which only does decent damage if the target has lots of conditions. Please tell me I am not alone in seeing this as ridiculously hurting mesmers especially staff mesmers because our cooldowns have gotten nerfed there across the board once. And the fact that he has an issue with iLeap and swap a skill that works 50% of the time if the stars align just baffles me So am I being unreasonable here?

^Because players determine meta game not developers. The number of combinations with every class for builds are really limitless people are just so narrow minded

and how many classes have weapon skill that recharges faster than that? pretty much all… you are essentially saying that no weapon skill on the staff should recharge faster than 20 seconds aside from one. HOW IS THAT FAIR TO STAFF MESMERS?

It doesn’t BREAK the stun it just moves you. Once you moved you are still stunned and unable to do anything else. And if they increase the kittening cooldown to say 30 seconds then only one skill on the staff aside from auto attack will be available in under 30 seconds NOW HOW IS THAT FAIR?

Did you miss the broadcast saying portal is gonna get shared? And yeah I am everywhere sorry but I hate when people feel it necessary to single out a class for no reason.

TO CHANGE THIS THEY WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE HOW ALL INSTANT CAST ABILITIES WORK. DO you understand that? The staff has gotten nerfed for mesmer and Ileap/swap is buggy and works maybe 50% of the time if the stars align. Just give up on it you are asking for something to be addressed that is bigger than what you are thinking. Do you not understand that?

Portal is getting shared with other classes and other classes have quickness/haste but with drawbacks because they are not elites. Stop whining and figure out how to counter. Sick of it… Srsly.

Im not comparing to thief I am comparing to instant cast. Which as it happens is in all classes. I am just more familiar with the thief. You seem intent on singling out mesmers which is ridiculous.

daydream.2938:

The thief skill i think hes referring to is sword/dagger skill 2?

That teleports you to your opponent so might not dodge the burst, and generally, thiefs dont run sword/dagger, its considered not particularly useful weapon combo.
So unless another thief skill allows for this, im not sure its an issue, a thief is already at a disadvantage for running that weapon set up.

no not referring to that skill referring to steal.

IDC if you are looking at me I am talking about instant cast abilities and this just so happens to be one of them for the thief that fits the same lines as the mesmer skills you are griping about. So I am talking across the board sir. You feel the need to single out our class well I am showing you that it is not just our class yet you seem intent on ignoring said evidence so why I ask? Do you play a thief and don’t want people to notice this? It is instant cast abilities across the board that have this problem. Stop trying to single out mesmers.

Yes steal also does this! Maybe on a longer cooldown but my point is any ability that is instant cast and instant move is going to do the same things regarding stun. It is not just mesmers but any class that has instant cast abilities can use them while stunned.

So because you don’t want to talk about a thief skill that can do the same thing only better the people defending their class can’t say anything? Hogwash sir. It is clear what this thread was from the beginning even if you ever so subtly tried to say other wise. Block is three seconds depending on the class. Say for instance warriors block lasts 3 seconds no matter how many hits they take. Engineers with a shield have to blocks one for projectiles one for melee that stuns. THEN ON TOP OF THAT if they have toolkit equipped they have one that lasts a whopping 4 seconds. The ONE ability that mesmers have to block only lasts 2 seconds and if they take a hit it generates a clone. To the person that stated thief uses steal offensively not defensively same thing goes for the majority of mesmers and iLeap. And the class has already been looked at for its “balancing” issue and they have stated they are sharing the reason that we are unbalanced to other classes (portal). And this class sees a lot of play? Not compared to the number of instagib thieves, bunker eles, bunker guardians, and warriors. Also if we want to compare weaponskills that break stun yup I’m bringing up the thief again it says in there that infiltrators strike and the subsequent return break stun on top of this the skills that they have that already to break stun are steal (intentional or not) infiltrators signet, and shadow return also I noticed that most thief signets can be used while stunned many of which don’t mention this but they are INSTANT cast abilities.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that any ability in ANY class that is either A. Instant cast or B. An instant movement ability ignores the rules of stun or breaks stun. Now is this an oversight? Maybe but maybe the way it was designed they couldn’t make these instant cast/instant move abilities be what they are INSTANT and also not be used during stun. So they made an executive decision an implemented the skills anyways because they felt that the benefit of it outweighed the risk. Now in order for them to do what you are asking would mean they would have to look at all instant cast/instant movement abilities. And the only reason I bring the thief up so much is because it was my first character so it is what I am most familiar with outside of the mesmer.

Vision.3541:

Darnis.4056:

It’s an instant ability… I think other instant abilities can still be used while stunned, like… Steal ?

I get that we have a weapon with a unique ability, but It’s a very defensive weapon.. and heavily changed and moved around since beta..

Except that steal cant be used to erase a well placed and carefully planned skull crack like retreat and leap can

YES IT CAN! While playing last night on my thief without it being traited steal would not only break the stun but make me invisible upon using it. THIS WAS WITHOUT IT BEING TRAITED (which it should only stealth you upon use it you have it traited.) So yes it can be used to erase a will placed skull crack. NOT ONLY THAT but because it made me go stealth it set me up for the instagib combo which can still do more damage and be pulled off faster than any mesmer.

Only a mesmer uses butterflies to blow kitten up.

Arsenic.8259:

QQing about a thief when there are a lot more classes that can get higher burst. Really? Maybe you should not be a glass cannon yourself.

Alot more? Ummm the only ones I can think of is 100B warrior… mesmer has a strong shatter but that is about it and it isn’t even close to as damaging as a thieves insta-gib combo.

Woops didn’t know necros didn’t have that in general I think that class needs some serious love though. Other classes such as rangers and engis do as well. If I said that nerfing mindwrack was a step in the right direction I must have been drunk. Mindwrack has already been nerfed I do not wish to see it become more so. But what you are saying is dodging is an option when facing mesmers? Wow… I guess most people don’t think to do that. This is really a thread about skills that break stun when they shouldn’t the OP just felt the need to single out mesmers no clue what class he plays but while playing on my thief I found that steal breaks stun and the tool tip never mentioned stun… I really do think though that all instant cast abilities on all classes can still be used while stunned.

This 1,000 times. People need to start wondering about how professions should get buffs not nerfs.

Vision.3541:

hharry.1967:

Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.

Dont think its a bug, thieves get the same thing with their sword skill. Its just not as problematic against thieves

Woah woah woah not as problematic? I hadn’t read all your posts but every twelve seconds is nowhere near as fast as just as often as you’d like because you don’t use cooldowns. Sorry man. This seems really bias to me.

As soon as you tell me why steal breaks stun when it clearly says nowhere in the tooltip that it does… Shouldn’t this be fixed as well? Hmmmmm…. :P Food for thought coming from me playing on my thief right now. But noone seems to be griping about this… But I bet if the Backstab damage and mug and what not ever get nerf it will be griped about.

Edit: When I first posted this I had only used it on knockdowns. Went to the BL’s in WvW and got stunned by a few krait and guards on purpose. YES STEAL DOES BREAK STUN so this is not only a mesmer issue on having skills that break stun when it doesn’t state so. You just seem to have it out for us and I am prolly not the first one that noticed this about thieves but because you are so keen to pick out mesmers for this I thought I should point another class that I know for sure can do this when it doesn’t say so. I am sure there are other classes with the same bugs and/or inaccurate tool tips.

Please keep it coming the more people on this thread that argue against nerfing an already buggy skill thus pulling the useful weapons for mesmers down to wait for it 2. GS and Staff the better off mesmers will be. And if they get PR nerfed then mesmers just as well give up and reroll what ever the entire community thinks you should play because we are obviously the redheaded step child of the player base.

Ahh… I guess I can see that… But I hope you would agree that the insane thief damage should be higher up. And I am not defending ANets design of necros or ele’s but as order of importance and causing player problems I would think the thief is higher than the AOE.

AoE was never high up on anyones complaints really. Except for those that were already squishy but that is their fault for being squishy

Please keep these coming. I don’t hate on thieves much but I agree here something must be done. And I guess we haven’t generated enough grief as of yet to warrant a change. I hope that this can grab someone’s attention because there comes a point when it isn’t L2P if you don’t even know the person is there to start with.

Sorry AOE is on the top of ANets list of things to fix. Even though the complaints about this greatly out number any other complaint in game. I really wish they would do something here.

Most mesmers I know of don’t really gripe about AOE this isn’t a general population poll but just the ones that I play with.

Razor.9132:

Benjamin.7893:

It should stay so why? Because you play mesmer and don’t want to loose the necessity of having one in every spvp team? Stop being selfish.

I’m a guardian and I’m against homogenizing. There are other ways around it, but keeping professions unique is the right way to go here.

However, since comments won’t change ANets opinion about the portals here’s something that would move a mesmer a bit forward:

Signet of Illusions’ passive could give 25% movement speed and boost illusions’ health pool outside of the signet.

THIS THIS THIS THIS! YEs please this I so want this give me that speed boost I always run Sig of illusions and love the passive health but OMG if it gave a speed boost just YES YES

So we are to base the viability of class specs on whether or not the smallest percentage of players in the game use them? I am so glad that they can make decisions on class mechanics and viability for us.

Mesmer is here to stay. And I still believe that the mesmer that did the swap on the iLeap did it so fast he prolly didn’t even notice the stun. It is also inside the description on the Wiki that it breaks stun even though the tool tip in game doesn’t say it. And I generalize groups of players based on what I see. With the people that I play with which granted isn’t the ENTIRE population of this game and thank god for that. And we shouldn’t be able to use this skills once we have been caught? Seriously? Do you know how many skills a mesmer has for general condition removal? 3! We don’t have a cleanse or anything of the sort aside from arcane thievery which requires a target and null field which only removes one condition per pulse. Only one class OFFICIALLY has weapon skills that break stun and that is dun dun dun THIEVES. The class that has the most stuns? Warriors. As mesmers we only have 1 weapon skill and one utility skill that cause stun. Aside from thieves and ele’s and guardians (2 of which can give themselves so many boons that who cares about their health it will never lower) we have the lowest health in the game. As far as skills that break stun we have the most. For good reason. Without these skills we would have the least number of ways to mitigate damage from people. Other classes damage mitigation utilities and weapon skills are much longer than ours and all of our damage mitigation focuses on stun breaking. Sorry man but I think all of these skills are working as intended (which is odd for a mesmer since most things are buggy beyond belief) and they will not and most definitely should not change because it will leave us severely hampered when it comes to damage mitigation. And how can you see a shield bash coming for one it has a 1/2 second cast time which if you take in human response acting perfectly .2 seconds to see and .2 seconds to react maybe! So that gives us one .1 second of wiggle room friend which is nothing. Please leave my class alone. Also to the person that thinks shatter mesmer is a LOW skill cap. And considers the list of her other classes a high skill cap. Being a shatter mesmer takes the MOST battle field awareness because you want to get the most out of your clones before they die and are able to shatter them. You not only have to look at your health but the health of 3 other individuals and look for their location so you can appropriately time your skills. Necros have their minions but the health of them doesn’t matter because they don’t get punished in damage if they die before the necro wants. Rangers have a pet health bar right above their skills and are only penalized if they swap pets when one is severely injured. And any warrior spec having a high skill cap? Really? The mesmer has some of the highest amount moving parts to it which requires timing and fast decision making but in reality this game really only requires that we be able to quickly press 10 different buttons on our keyboard. Doesn’t take a lot of skill to do no matter what class it is (even mesmers) but if we are comparing skill cap of mesmers to other professions I say yes mesmers have one of the highest in the game.

Ummm… Warriors are the Only classes that I have seen able to solo dungeons… I think you guys need some buffs somewhere but I’d say if any class can solo dungeons they are doing alright.

Yet if you look in the PvP thread people are complaining about the swap breaking stun yet here we are saying the iLeap is broken beyond belief.

They probably didn’t change the combat log readouts. It was a mesmer using illusionary beserker. It use to be called imagined burden and had the name switch and the skill as well. Just look on the wiki for imagined burden and it says it there.

Everyone wants to see that. But instead of screaming for nerfs which just keep coming in anyways. Ask for a buff to the classes and specs that need it? You also just completely dismissed everything else I said about mesmers and their counters.

Posts in the thief thread about thieves being candidates for portal maybe not from you but others are what is bugging me most.

To me it sounds like the “low skill cap” classes are the ones that just beat you. The high AOE on a mesmer can be avoided our burst is not as sustainable as one would think. Definitely doesn’t match thieves or warriors. Thieves by the way only have to wait three seconds to repeat their burst damage. Portal is getting spread to other classes. Thieves can drop target and reset the fight more often. We can do it twice if we have decoy and mass invis which would mean we don’t have time warp. Spammable means it can be hit repeatedly all shatters have a cooldown on them which means it’s not spammable and our only really damaging shatter can be used once every 15 seconds. Therefore I just gave you a sound argument that countered everything you just said. And a warrior spec with high skill cap? All warriors that I run dungeons with just sit there and tank while beating on the boss a lot of them just have signets across the board meaning they only have to use their weapon skills and adrenaline when its full. Mesmers have been nerfed and toned down look at the hotfix that ONLY addressed mesmers.

So how about throwing a fit and asking it to get fixed instead of demanding portal be spread to your class?

My engineer is so bad that the flame burst from his pistol does more damage than the flamethrower.

I run a GC mesmer… If I go down because I got ganked or because I know I am a Glass Cannon. I’m fine with it. It should be a give and take. I can have insane damage but I also better know that I am squishy and will go down super quick. I hope other glass cannons have that mind set but I feel like they want to do insane damage and want to feel entitled to not get killed. It’s kind of ridiculous.

Visionary.5681:

Condition necro needs tweaking.

Power necro needs steroids. Its a sad state of play when you have all these buttons , yet you loose dps by pressing any of them. An auto attack class? Really? Ow the fun

I really feel like that is what people want is to just forget the skills and have everyone go around pressing one. It is a sad state of affairs. Having said that I will say that as a mesmer I have an extremely hard time killing Condi necros because mesmers have limited condition removal options and your guys health is just ridiculous. But you need love in general.

Visionary.5681:

jportell.2197:

Essentially all melee classes auto attacks hit more than one target directly in front of them and griping about our abilities to use clones and swap with them is griping about how the class is supposed to function… Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

Awsome , i’ll let my Necro know his Dagger is allowed to cleave now

Sorry forgot about that. Theives and necros with daggers are the only ones that don’t. I honestly could care less about thieves but kitten the necros need some love!

@Ensoriki Way to take what I said out of context I said you have Tons of instant transport options and you don’t need another or a mod to make stealth even more powerful than it is. Let me explain that you have:
1. Steal
2. Infiltrators Strike
3. Shadow Shot
4. Shadow Step/Return
5. Shadow trap/Pursuit
All of these have a shorter cooldown that portal mesmers some of these stealth you upon use depending on your traits. And all are instant travel abilities and several have the option to go between the starting point and the target point. Essentially portal. This is why you don’t need portal. And if it means so little for your profession to get then why are you arguing for getting it? It would just be another reason for people to dislike this profession and more so loathe Anet.

Low skill cap? What class has an absolutely high skill cap in this game? Warriors and guardians just sit there and beat on each other without moving or thinking tactically. Thieves have stealth and the ability to spam certain attacks over and over and over, engineer takes skill for some of the kits but honestly they can just sit there and beat on people as well. Ele’s need to time attunement swaps thats essentially it plus they have the WIDEST range of weapon skills with the three conjure (weapon skills), Rangers just keep you at range and sick the pets on you (not much skill there), Necros I can’t say much on because I haven’t played them but I rarely see a necro in Death Shroud aside from moving around faster. Shatter mesmers have 4 available to them all of which depend on the number of illusions active things we have to watch for are A) Illusions health (more battle field awareness than any class) Illusions location (for things like diversion that if all 3 illusions are together and shatter then it is just the same as a 1 illusion shatter) C) what illusion summoning abilities are immediately available to us. For portal most mesmers hate being asked to switch to it because we would rather have an offensive or defensive slot available and it is on such a LONG cool down. Time warp really you people still are griping about that? It is our only quickness option while other classes have some available in their utility and very situational plus it can be countered which I am not going into here there are other threads about it. And a damage decrease in mind wrack wouldn’t be a step in the right direction how about instead of qqing about a mesmer spec you say why does everyone roll this spec why not your other options available. Then most mesmers will tell you because the other options are terrible. You should instead hope Anet brings other options up so that we look at those and say wow. I like this now because its useful. WE are still not as powerful as thieves, 100B warriors, and I have seen a couple D/D and S/D eles that have burned people down faster than any as you put it “face rolling mesmer” ever could. So get your panties out of a bunch and look globally and you will see that because of imbalance WITHIN classes certain specs and builds are just the only options available. Continually nerfing a class into the ground isn’t the answer and it never will be. The only justified nerf I can think of is the shattered strength nerf which was a bug fix as well as the0.25 sec GCD on shatters. Everything and I mean EVERYTHING that the “faceroll” mesmer spec you whine about can be dealt with by simply thinking on your feet instead of expecting the class to stand there and let you take turns beating on each other. This ain’t that type of game. Say for instance the shatter chain we have two shatters that we line up and use one get 3 more clones up and use the other. Most people that I use this on NEVER EVER dodge… Its like they forget that its an option when in PvP or WvW. You have two dodges available before endurance runs out and all shatters can be dodged but its like people just freeze because they see all these clones running at them.

ensoriki.5789:

jportell.2197:

Yeah I have it was my main and I got bored with the game play of it (shocker I know according to Anet I was “Doing it wrong”) But in any case look at the daze duration. 1.5 seconds is still 50% longer than the daze duration of any class most of which are capped at 1 second. And the ability to choose to return to shadow trap instead of instantly going there no matter what sounds pretty good to me and adds to mobility for the most mobile class in the game.

Lol wtf are you doing?
Stahp it.
Tactical strike wasn’t buffed. Best case for it is on S/P where it was doing nothing due to Stability against some priority targets so now it does nothing 10% harder, which totally makes up for the 15% reduction on the PW they’re walking out of in Stability anyways with it’s heavy wind up and other issues such as weakness.

Shadow Trap is unreliable outside of live combat, that’s where it excels, tagging a guy and getting that stealth offensively or defensively. As a warp? Doesn’t even work sometimes due to range limitations and other factors pertaining to the nature of shadowstepping that Portal isn’t bound to. It’s anorexic shape that mean’s an opponent has quite a good chance to never trigger it as well? Not bad.

The range on it is 10,000 units… The range on portal is radar range… 10,000 units in this game is farther. Nature of shadow stepping that portal isn’t bound to? Like WHAT? You are not limited on where you go for 360 degrees and just stay with in a 10,000 unit distance of your trap? How many PVP maps are bigger than 10,000 units? From what I can tell they are all very compact and have a lot of tight corners and teams can run from one side to the other fairly quickly. Not to mention the duration of shadow trap is infinite before it gets tripped. Portal we still have a time limit to drop the second portal and even then only 10 seconds after to use the second portal because it is buggy and doesn’t last the full 20 seconds. The only thing that portal is better than this is the sense that it can move more than one person. So in shadow trap we have longer range, infinite duration and you are stealthed upon return to it there for saving one of your stealthing skills for after you open on the poor soul. In portal we have a bright purple circle on the ground the need to place it at a target location and a longer cooldown. I’m sorry shadow trap is all you guys need and everything has situational uses just like portal but I can imagine shadow trap being way better tactically for thieves.

You must have missed the nerf time warp threads , share portal threads, and so on. Illusionary leap is an offensive ability number one. 99.9% of mesmers wouldn’t use it as a stun breaker and I bet you the mesmer that did pressed the swap so fast he or she didn’t even notice that you stunned them. Number two most mesmers use ALOT of their stun breakers to open up a fight because we have one weapon skill per set that creates a clone and one that creates a phantasm. Kinda like thieves have you know one that stealths them? Anyways this means that chances are we opened up on you with Mirror images and Phase Retreat if we were using a staff. So that means we have a full load of clones to deliver our first CC for a daze. Unfortunately these don’t stack in duration so all 3 clones will daze you at once for one second. Now after that we have prolly dodge rolled to create two more clones thus draining our endurance swapped to a sword and used ILeap and the Swap to do a blurred frenzy Mind Wrack combo. Now here if you aren’t dead yet this is prolly the first chance we have given you to use your stuns. We just swapped weapons. So thats on cool down and used Ileap so that is also on cool down. We only have one way left to make a clone to confuse you and use as a stun breaker (if you think all mesmers work the same.) You as a warrior now have skull crack and shield bash and so on to wail on me with. And I have few options and no endurance left to dodge and one MAYBE 2 options for a stun breaker… How is it you think you are bad off again? You gotta remember mesmers aren’t gonna sit there with their thumbs up their kitten for the opening of a fight because the slower we are to do our damage to you the more time it gives you to ID us and burn us down. Now I just gave you a perfect opposite example of the perfect example you gave me. And as several others have stated here. Ileap is so buggy that it works maybe 50 percent of the time. ALSO we don’t have the evasion ability of thieves (the only weapon that helps us with evading attacks is sword #2). And we have ONE weapon option for blocking in an off hand sword. Which does not last for as long as warriors, guardians, or even engineers with an OH shield and the gear shield tool kit. So that being said I can see how they intended for us to have these stun breakers/teleport abilities because we are severely lacking in what the other classes do have.

It is a possibility. I have thought of doing it but it meant that I would have to give up on illusionary persona for shattering. Something IDK if I want to do but please try it tell me if it really does make a difference.

No duplicate never have an off hand. And if you are fighting under water they don’t even have a weapon at all! I hope both of these are an oversight on the part of Anet.

Stick with mental torment. The minor trait for causing 5 stacks of vuln when you daze a target in the master tier of dom works really well if you shatter diversion then pop 3 more clones for Mindwrack. It is insane how well the vuln works. But don’t take the major trait for it because simply doing your shatters in a different order will give you the same effect as choosing the rending shatter trait.