Guild Wars 2

Cormac.3871:

A friend of mine has a tradition he calls “Dad joke Fridays”, as it is Friday I thought I’d share the bad joke this thread put into my mind:

At a secretive meeting of the largest anti Sylvari guild the imposing Charr president stands before the group and silences the room with an ominous growl.

“I call this meeting of the Dedicated Union of Meat Based Races Of Tyia to order. Over the last couple of hours I have been made aware of some disturbing information that needs to be addressed immediately. So before we get to item 1 on the agenda, Finding a better acronym, we will act on this. It has come to my attention that details of our meetings have been passed on to sylvari within hours. These are details that could only be known by someone attending these meetings.”

“You don’t mean…?”

“Yes, someone in this room is a plant!”

(If you hate me now, you only have yourself to blame for reading past the words “dad joke”)

((ROTFLMAO! I think we’re going to need to start a chain story on these forums! ))

DarcShriek.5829:

Embrace The Bold.7619:

Mad Pig.2890:

So yeah, they kind of do have a reason to be hated and carefully watched.

Carefully watched? Yes. Hated? No. Scarlet was the cause of all this suffering and pain (and a council that mass effect’s would be proud of). One person should not be a representative of all people in that race/group/ethnicity. I’d also like to point out Zojja fought influence from a dragon champion and succeeded. If anything I’d be wary about the nightmare court and trying to warn Marrik’s people of the coming threat.

It was not a fight against just one sylvari. There were numerous sylvari butchering innocent women and children. The Pale Tree did nothing to stop this, she is complicit.

The Pale Tree’s only goal is fighting the dragons. If it has nothing to do with the dragons, she’s not concerned about it. The Firstborn tend to follow her lead and those of us who are younger don’t have any power to create changes in the upper echelons of our society. Sad but true.

It’s the other races’ and governments’ fault for underestimating Scarlet and her Toxic Alliance allies. The Lionguard is especially at fault for ignoring the court back in 1325. I remember when the Lionguard told Caithe, “The Nightmare Court is not our problem.” Many of us Sylvari have always known about the threat Scarlet and her courtier allies posed and tried in vain to take them down with the help of our friends outside our culture.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Never underestimate the power of the Nightmare Court.

Lion’s Arch is a good example of what happens when people ignore terrorist threats.

— Official’s name withheld due to lack of authority to speak on behalf of the Grove

LumAnth.5124:

She says " the dark energy is all I need"

not darkness

ooops! I stand corrected.

I still think of that her words are too similar to what the NPC Courtiers tend to say. If there really is a connection between Mordie and Nightmare, then the Nightmare Courtiers are corrupted Sylvari. Perhaps only the plant dragon can corrupt sylvari.

ThiBash.5634:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Just because one sylvari goes full tyrant on the world does not mean their entire race is to blame. In real life, humans have done things over the course of history that would make you shiver (Looking at you Hitler, Mengele, Staling and many others).

Does that mean the entire human race is to be hated and carefully watched as well?

No, but you’d be surprised how long it takes for people to become trustworthy towards oneanother again. The Dutch for example, had a longstanding resentment towards the Germans. Although not exactly hostile, it’s clear that many Dutch, especially from the WW2 generation, don’t like Germans in general. It has taken almost 70 years for them to completely ‘get over it’.

And don’t forget what happened to Muslims and Sikh people after 9/11. Those two groups are struggling to separate themselves from the terrorists who stole their identities. In the US, there are some outspoken haters who lump the Sikh, moderate Muslims, and the terrorists together. France went extremely far by installing an anti-headscarf law because it supposedly was a symbol of oppression (which is not true btw). In other countries like the UK, there are more subtle versions of discrimination such as expecting Muslim women to show part of their hair even if they don’t want to.

With Sylvari, I’m not sure how people would subtly discriminate against them. But I can see a Pamela Geller-styled group forming and finding ways to blatantly discriminate against the tree people. I can see that Ellyna Graidy NPC in LA’s new cemetery creating an anti-sylvari group.

Conncept.7638:

Y’know this may explain why they chose Scarlet as the villain of this LS. The pact is just too strong to continue creating a compelling story around, it’s basically become the superman of GW2.

However, it just so happens the pact is lead by a Sylvari… and a Sylvari who provided no help against Scarlet at that. If ire continues to rise in all the races against the sylvari race the pact may be broken by internal strife and prejudices, allowing for a much more compelling story arc then ‘Follow Trahearne in to battle again’ as we face the next dragon.

The current situation with the Pact could break it which would weaken the good guys! From a storywriter’s point of view, that’s good! Back in October / November, people were whining to Anet that the Pact was too powerful and it should be broken up. It looks like those people will get their wish!

Aftertouch.5437:

So with the destruction of the city and the grieving citizens naturally looking for a scapegoat to latch on to, it’s been interesting and a little unsettling to see the reactions coming out from the different quarters, such as folks condemning the bigots and folks being racist toward the salads.

I’m hesitantly curious to see just how much ANet’s going to let this wave of discontent rise against the Sylvari and just how bad things could get and what actions could come of it.

Mostly because something like this obviously might hit close to home for people playing and plot points like this could easily backfire if the writers don’t handle it correctly.

At the very least it makes playing a sylvari a heck of a lot more engaging atm and possibly so for the near future. What do you all think?

If Anet does go through with this, I wouldn’t mind. Racism is a subject that myself and many other Americans in this game would be familiar with. Everyone in the US has been discriminated at one time or another. Plus, It’s appropriate to use non-human races to tell the very sensitive human stories. Star Trek did this and succeeded. That show came out when there were major racial tensions between white supremacists and African Americans. That show succeeded in tearing down barriers and brought people together.

To pull this off successfully, the writers in all of the committees will need to RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH!

If Anet goes in this direction, I wish them happy trails and good luck! I hope it succeeds!

BTW, I’m of a mixed background (Latin American / Asian American/ Native American/ Jewish ancestry / Armenian / White). A story like racism wouldn’t hit too close to home. It’s a common experience.

So far, Anet has succeeded in telling a 9/11-styled event (aka the Lion’s Arch / Scarlet event). I lived through 9/11, so I appreciated seeing a fictional version. Seeing something like that is like going back to the grave of an old friend or a close relative. I did get a few PTSD flashbacks during the Escape patch. When my guildees saw me slow down in-game, I got a chance to tell them about the memories that came back to me. I went through therapy a while back, so I know how to handle my PTSD episodes. That patch also helped me remember some important things from 9/11 that I’m including in my own original sci-fi novel.

Steel Fenrir.2791:

For the next Living Story season, could you please give players the option of becoming dragoons, Mordremoth’s champions? There are probably more than one Grove as evidenced by Malyck, so that could become one of our bases. Sort of like the Horde vs the Alliance in WoW (I don’t play WoW, I bought GW1 when I chose between the two).

I’ve made a similar suggestion a few times in the last few months. In my case, I’d love to play Inquest or Nightmare Court. I think it would add the factions thing back into the game by having Anti-Dragon vs Pro-Dragon.

BTW, Mordie’s champs are the Nightmare Court. Info from both the Sylvari PS and the LS imply that the Plant Dragon is behind the Nightmare. If you have fought Scarlet in the last update, you’ll know that she said, “Darkness is all I need”. Courtiers tend to say the same thing. Plus Scarlet’s journal (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scarlet_Briar's_Journal) has this line: “Tonight, I saw it. I started into the abyss, anD it stared back at me. So much power.” If you’ve played TA story dungeon and watched the story, you’ll know that some of the sylvari from the NC conversion pods say something very similar.

Rils.7368:

It’s worth noting as well that toxic krait are also a splinter faction. Just like the toxic courtiers, they were changed by Scarlet. Angel talked about this in one of the other threads here – the “normal” krait see them as fools chasing false and failed gods. Having been enslaved to Scarlet’s will, how would they fare returning to a society who feeds on slavery?

Neither one of these societies will accept back those who joined Scarlet. My guess is that the Toxic Alliance is still around simply because they have nowhere else to go.

I just thought about this as I read your post: What if the Arnold Schwarzenegger-styled Toxic Alliance threatened Faolain’s Court? Given the fact that courtiers do have deadly rivalries with each other, it is plausible that some sort of fight will break out between the two. Play TA up/up and watch the story associated with that dungeon if you don’t believe me. Plus, Faolain is weak from all the pompous “Kings & Queens play” that she and her followers love to do. She isn’t prepared for a war.

Apologies to the all the pro-NC folks (esp. the NC Rpers). It has to be said that Faolain is ridiculously easy to beat in this game esp. if Caithe is in the same room.
The Graveling boss in AC path 2 presents more of challenge than Faolain ever has. (:p) That’s just sad.

X The Manimal.5293:

Minos.5168:

Aveneo.2068:

Now if ESO had been B2P like GW2, it might have been competition. But not when they want to charge you $60 for the box with $15 a month on top of that and a cash-shop.

See: World of Warcraft. (which had 7.8 million subscribers as of December 31st)
Next expansion will be $50. It’s still got a $15/mo subscription AND a cash shop.

7.8 is more than twice the “over 3 million GW2 copies sold”.
And that’s people that are still actively subscribed. Not just people that bought the game.

WoW has been out for YEARS and has developed a strong playerbase that worked so hard to get their gear and rewards. They don’t want to lose it all so they’re obligated to pay and play. I know, because I was one of them until I just didn’t care anymore. It was painful to see my characters go but I had to do it. ESO, however, is a new MMO and has a sub-fee as well as the 60$ box just like WoW. It won’t do so good I’m afraid.

Add to that the fact that ESO has low-budget animation and gameplay. It’s great for long-time fans of the series, but not so great for new players who are spoiled by modern RPGs like GW2. IMO, if a game is going to have a sub fee, I expect high quality animation and excellent gameplay. ESO doesn’t deliver that so I’m not leaving GW2.

Plus, ESO is too grim-dark for some players (like me). It seems as if it’s designed to snag the Skyrim crowd.

In the words of Grand Marshal Trahearne: “It won’t end well.”

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

This would have been the perfect moment. Just saying..

I saw the hairstyles appearing on Dulfy one by one.
First Kasmeer’s hairstyle, YES!
second Taimi’s hairstyle, YES!
I was really expecting Scarlet’s hairstyle after that, but it was not meant to be..

Same here. I liked Ceara’s Wheat pigtails. It made me think of Pippy Longstockings. I think good Sylvari should be allowed to have the same hairstyle.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Go to the new graveyard, talk to the npc’s crying for their lost ones.

One of them gives a good setup for the next season..

Humans vs Salad.

CORRECTION: Vegan vs. Salad

Tom Gore.4035:

Will.6210:

New patch reveals that they do know about the dragon. Some fat chick is investigating.

She’s not fat! She’s voluptuous! Learn the difference.

Or as we say in Latin America: She has curves.

She’s not overweight or flabby though. She looks too athletic to be fat.

lordkrall.7241:

Plagiarised.2865:

I don’t understand why we would go after Mordremoth straight away.

Because it woke up more or less in the backyard of two of the Major races capitals and it got supercharged from the Ley-line?

Don’t forget that Mordie is more likely to target the Pale Tree than Rata Sum. Right now, her life and the life of the unawakened saplings are in danger of being extinguished.

We can’t let Glint’s fate befall the Pale Tree.

It gives me a chance to catch up on writing my GW2 fanfics and an opportunity to join my guild for dungeon / fractals / WvW runs! It will also give me a chance to get mats for my ascended armor!

I’m going to enjoy this LS break while it lasts.

CoffeeMakesMeSmile.8172:

I get that Scarlet was the villain, but I felt horrible listening to Marjory and the others joke about her death.

Previous LS updates established that she’s been driven crazy by some external force that she encountered in the Eternal Alchemy and could no longer mentally fight it. We should pity her or mourn for those she’s killed, not make childish jokes about what it felt like to deliver the death blow.

Not to be rude here, but I’m genuinely curious – do dialogue ideas get checked before they are added? If so, did no one suggest that joking about killing a mentally unstable character might be in poor taste?

Keep in mind that those characters live in the 1300s Tyria, so they’re not educated when it comes to mental illness. We players, on the other hand, live on 21st century Earth where folks are slowly becoming more informed about mental health and people who manage mental disabilities.

I’m satisfied with the choices Anet gave us for this scenario. At least my noble Sylvari character deflected the NPCs’ comments by telling Majory that killing Scarlet wasn’t as good as getting a kiss from her. I love that comment!

To Anet: Thank you for giving us a chance to flirt with Majory! You’ve made my day!

DarcShriek.5829:

I have to disagree with your explanation. Only because I think that the Pale Tree new full well that a dragon was involved from the beginning.

I’m curious: Where is your proof? If you can find in-game proof or evidence from official sources that the PT knew about the dragon, I’d love to hear it.

The PT may have access to the Dream, but she isn’t a goddess. She is just as fallible as any mortal.

deepwinter.9015:

I was a little disappointed to learn that Trahearne spent the past few months, much less the past year, of Scarlet’s rampage twiddling his thumbs down at Fort Trinity.

While I understand that, from a military standpoint, she presented no significant threat requiring The Pact’s support up to her involvement in Kessex Hills, from the Marionette to Lion’s Arch she presented a massive threat to Tyria! Her armies killed thousands and threatened even more.

Wouldn’t the Commander (the player character) have had any say in the matter? We learn from Laranthir that he had to coerce the All-mighty Marshal to send at least one ship to check things out… after the battle was over! From a public relations standpoint, and to steal a line from the Firstborn himself, “this won’t end well.”

Frankly, I think this little amendment to the Living Story is cheap and yet another poor storytelling element to a woefully pitiful story arch. While the end result is greatly welcomed (namely, we got a Dragon – finally), the entire journey has been one big bed of coals we’ve had to suffer walking over. Trahearne has become one of my least favorite characters of all time with this move.

Trahearne is not at fault. He answers to the Pale Tree, and in Sylvari society, every Dreamer listens to the commands of Mama Tree, who motto is “We come into this world to destroy the dragons. We must not lose ourselves in that challenge” (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare#Biology). Most likely, the Pale Tree told her people stay out of the situation because it had nothing to do with dragons (or so she thought).

The Sylvari Dreamer commanders wouldn’t be at fault either. They’re all just following Mama’s orders.

ArtsyAlraune.3940:

Seriously. I am so tired of seeing these things. They’re still in Kessex, Queensdale, Gendarren Fields…! People stopped doing them or caring about them before that patch was even over. They’re a blight and the fact ANet hasn’t bothered to remove them now that Scarlet’s forces are no more is really, really annoying to me.
I’m not asking for Kessex to be back to normal at all. I’m glad they left part of the map damaged by the whole thing— but these events should really be gone by now.

Since we’re going after Modremoth next, it makes sense to keep them around. The Toxic Alliance is the Arnold Schwarzenegger of the Nightmare Court, and the Plant Dragon has some sort of connection to the court as well. I hope we see more of them in the future LS updates!

I really hope Anet decides to name the main leader of the bunch and show us the drama within this group.

mcarswell.3768:

there’s already a topic for this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Cutscene-did-not-play

The title of that other post is very vague and could be referring to any cutscene in the game. I’m concerned that the team would overlook that post.

I wanted to make sure that the folks in charge know that it is the new LA cutscene that is having problems so they can fix it right away. Plus they need to know which servers are having the issue. The more details the team has, the faster the problem can be fixed.

Hi! The cutscene for the current update, Battle for Lion’s Arch— Aftermath, didn’t play when I logged into the game with my lv. 80 character. The release notes stated that players lv 30 and above will see a cutscene when they enter LA, but that didn’t happen for me.

Server: Tarnished Coast
Location: Lion’s Arch

Astral Projections.7320:

It’s because of how the story was written. It wasn’t plotted out by a person, but by the departments. Not only is it a story written by committee, it’s a story written by multiple Living Story committees. There were several different groups working on different segments of this story and each group has an incentive to make the story as streamlined as possible. Adding plot twists and complications on a segment they need to get done in a month is not only extra work but causes problems and extra work for the next group to take up the story.

Sigh

Brace yourselves. I’m actually going to say the honest truth. I’m sorry ahead of time if I offend any devs, but this must be said.

If that’s true, it definitely explains why the LS is such a mess. It’s a case of “too many cooks spoil the stew”. These committees are not working together. It’s almost as if they are each assigned to an update and told to write a story only for the assigned stuff without checking in with the other teams. Plus the plot holes are indicative of lack of story writing experience, lack of life experience, and lack of research. Complex characters like Scarlet and Trahearne fell flat because lots of research was required to pull them off successfully. I recommend that these guys go to http://nanowrimo.org/forums and http://campnanowrimo.org/ to start getting in contact with the NaNoWriMo community. Then Anet should write short RPG stories. Once the gameplay writers get lots of experience, then they can try tackling a large, complex RPG story.

NOTE 1: When I mention “life experience”, I’m referring to an old writer’s adage that says, “Write what you know.” Not every person is familiar with neither the Narcissism Personality Disorder that Ceara had nor Treahearne’s PTSD situation. Both illnesses would require alot a research in order to write about each character in a convincing way.

NOTE 2: The Nanowrimo forums aren’t very active until November, but there are alot of good posts about writing stories. Plus there are good story ideas on there too!

From what I’ve learned in school, video game and animation companies usually require people to specialize in certain areas. There is no such thing as jack-of-all trades in the American video game and animation industries. I’m referring to people who work for established companies, not people who create their own works.

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about: There are computer animators who specialize in modeling, and there are some who specialize in VFX. A person who does VFX very well can’t just change to modeling. It takes years of experience to specialize in certain areas. If a person doesn’t have enough experience in a certain area, it will show in the final product.

Writers should be the only ones to write the gameplay script. For a game this big, Anet needs a team of writers, much like what the television studios do for their shows. The writing team would need one person to lead them.

The programmers can create a developer’s version of the script once the writers are finished with their work. This is similar to what a director does when he/she receives a script from the screenplay writer.

Sariel V.7024:

. I’m not sure how you expect to satisfy the personal fantasies of several thousand players simultaneously. Realistically, only 1 person can deliver the killing blow to Scarlet, so only one can realistically be considered the overall hero of the story. Every player expects that will be he or she.

This is simple to solve! Devise a way for the entire group to peg Scarlet to the floor as a group. Failure to group-stomp her would result in another boss fight. Failure to group-stomp after the second boss fight would result in Scarlet killing the entire group with the ship’s laser attack. It’s important to establish that Scarlet’s Armor doesn’t allow her to killed with a single stomp. FYI— This would all take place in the area where we had to fight Scarlet as a group.

HyruleanHyroe.1473:

Just my two cents, but a straightforward good vs evil story isn’t always a bad thing. Not exactly what this is, but you can’t treat uncomplicated storytelling like it’s a sin.

Oh yes we can. If the game or story is meant for the PG-13 (Teen) audience, then the story needs to be more complicated. Think of other games with the same rating in the RPG genre (like Final Fantasy). Research books in the Young Adult section of the bookstore. Teens are old enough to study the Holocaust, the American Civil War, the Middle East conflict and 9/11 in detail. The high school I went to covered American History in nitty gritty detail without censorship, and I’m sure other schools do the same. Teens often read YA books about death, suicide, drugs, vampires, and other not-so-nice things. Hunger Games, Harry Potter, and Twilight are a few good examples of the YA market.

A straightforward good vs evil story is for children. Stories for a teen audience are a more complicated, emotional affair that have more detailed characters, plot twists, and subplots.

Anet really should of applied Murphy’s Law to the Scarlet storyline as well as show us cutscenes of the bad guys doing their stuff. They should of also named the main leaders of the Aetherblades, Molten Alliance, and Toxic Alliance. We should of also seen Scarlet interacting with these baddies as well.

To create more tension, I would of had the bad guys steal / destroy / threaten the one character or item that the PCs were emotionally attached to such as:

(1) For Asura PCs— During the Escape from LA event, Taimi would hotwire the portals and get onto the Breachmaker to meet Scarlet as she planned. Braham would of alerted the PCs that the kid rushed into LA and is now missing. There would be additional quests to get the Asuran PCs to search for her. While the PCs search, there is a cutscene to show Taimi meeting Scarlet and begging the villainess to let her join her. The cute little asura would of been taken hostage (without her realizing it) and used as a pawn during the fight. The PCs would be required to battle Taimi. Why would Scarlet allow Taimi to live? Scarlet saw herself as an Asura, not as a Sylvari. The short story, “What Scarlet Saw”, implied that she is a narcissist who would of seen Taimi as a tool. If I were in Scarlet’s shoes, I would of made Taimi think I was her friend, then I would backstab her.

(2) For Sylvari PCs — Scarlet would get proud and verbally threaten the Grove via holo-message. To every Dreamer, Mama Tree and the unawakened saplings are the most important thing in the world. Her threats would of put everyone on alert. All the PCs would of been called home to defend the both LA &the Grove. Why would Scarlet do this? Scarlet’s holo-diary implied that she saw herself as invincible thanks to her vision of the Eternal Alchemy. Plus the short story, “What Scarlet Saw”, implied that Scarlet hated her culture.

(3) For Human & Charr PCs — These two groups would of been witnessed to the events within the Council Meeting, which would raise suspicion. An investigation would of ensued and the two groups would join together to make an uneasy militia to defend the city. * Evon Gnashblade would get involved because he wants to defend his business, the Black Lion Trading Post.*

(4)For Norn PCs — I would of introduced a prophet or shaman who saw a vision of LA’s destruction and have them travel to LA to warn the people. This person has to be someone who is very important to the Norn PCs. The prophet gets in trouble, gets tried for disrupting the peace, and the Norn PC would help her out. After this quest, I would have the Norn PCs join the Human & Charr PCs in preparing the city for war. The prophet would of been brutally killed in the lead-up to the final battle (most likely during the Escape event). I haven’t played the Norn storyline, so I don’t know if there are any prophets or shamans that the Norn players are closely connected to. I have to admit that I’m just making a guess.

That’s just a few ideas I would of utilized for the last few Scarlet-related updates. If I could officially re-write this story, I would do it. I have to admit that the LS’s plot holes and lack of use of opportunities drives me nuts.

Fext.3614:

A good idea. I would love to see that.
However there is one drawback: I doubt there would be enough people. At the end of the LA event, people were already bored and almost nobody was doing the quests and there was even not enough people on the knights.
So I think that the archived events would be most likely abandoned.

If that were true, explain why people run the dungeons and fractals even though experienced players have gone through them tons of times. The reason we don’t see many pugs for the dungeons and fractals is because folks prefer to create a team with their fellow guildies. The same goes for Teq, Wurm, and other events in the game. Many guilds have a regular event schedule, but their schedules aren’t known to the general public.

For example, if a person wants to do only Fractals, they join a Fractals-only guild like Fractals of the Mind (FOTM). Some guilds, like Apocalyptic Armageddon (AARM), do a little bit of everything.

Anet could always scale down the fights for both solo players and 5 person teams. As long as the loot is good (read: lots of gold, ascended mats, unique items, etc.), people will replay the LS events.

Equinox.4968:

It’s not about balance, it’s about spending tons of resources modeling, texturing, and writing a story that would have to take into account the PS and LS so far. If they wanted to add tengu, they should have done so at the beginning, when the game was first released.

Anet does have the modeling and texturing resources for the Tengu. The birds were in the last game, so they should have the files for them.

Anet does use Maya and Zbrush. Both programs are standard in the worldwide video game industry. The files can be imported into every existing video game software program (Unity, Unreal, Havok, etc).

I know that Anet uses Havok for GW2 (http://www.havok.com/products/physics), so it wouldn’t be hard to import the stuff from Maya and Zbrush.

Dante.3780:

I really would like to see tengu as playable race, they’ve alredy Dominion of Winds very nice positioned near low lvl areas, so i guess implementing them would be easier than for any other (new or existing) race.

For class it’d be a bit harder due to balance, but i really hope for Dervish and Ritualist to come back to Tyria

What do you guys think? Is ANet going to surprise us with a new race during season 2 of a Living World?

Tengu would be a great race to add to the GW2 lineup because they’ve been around the mainstream Tyrians for so long. I don’t see them as “parrot charr” tho. The Charr are an atheist, war-based society. Tengu society is very very different from the big cats. Tengu are the ninja / samurai race of the Guild Wars series, so there is a good chance they would have a deity that they serve. I can see their society being alot like Edo Period Japan (group-oriented with a strict hierarchy. See this link for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edo_society#Four_class_order). I think it would make all the GW1 Factions / Cantha fans really happy to have the Asian element back in the game.

In my view, the Tengu have more grace and finesse than the charr. In GW1, those birdies were fast, fast, FAST! I used to freak out whenever I saw a group of them rushing towards my female human fire ele.

On a different note: If we do get another playable race, I hope it’s a comic relief race (mainly Skritt and Quaggans). This game definitely needs it. In my view, the LS got too serious at times, and I’m referring to the updates between Nightmare Tower and Escape from LA.

If I wanted to play a grim-dark game, I would play Skyrim or Diablo. As a gamer, I tend to be attracted to games that mix serious stuff with comedy. I’m also attracted to games that can adds a unique art style to a realistic game. Realistic games (Read: too much like RL) may look good on a developer’s resume, but it makes the game boring at times. If I want realism, I would play Saints Row or Secret World.

I realize that some people hate comedy in their game. For example: I’ve read posts where people criticize the funny stuff the Grove NPCs say. These are the type of people that want every game to be super serious like Skyrim. Comedy is necessary for releasing the tension that the player feels during the stressful parts of the game, and it helps to keep the audience’s attention. Anyways, in my professional opinion, I say we need to focus on making this game unique. If it is too similar to other games, then people won’t have a reason to pick up GW2. I’m sure alot of the non-Anet devs who play this game would agree with me.

In closing, if another race is added to the game, I hope it’s a group that would make this game unique.

MAGIK.5740:

Hi, I really got into GW2 when it came out and I loved how you could do random events with tons of people around you, however I stopped playing it for a while and now I’m getting back into it however I remember how back in the day the server I was in had tons of people playing. Now it’s empty, so I was wondering which servers are best for PvE experience that has most people playing??? I heard Blackgate is good?

From what I understand..

Blackgate is mostly for Hardcore players. Most of the guilds on there tend to lean towards serious people.

Tarnished Coast is a mixed server (casual /semi-hardcore / hardcore), and it is the unofficial RP servers for North America. You’ll see lots of RPers in places like Divinity’s Reach or on the maps. Don’t worry. They don’t bite. If RPers annoy you, then this is probably not the server for you.

Jade Quarry is a good all-round server (like Tarnished Coast but I’ve never seen Rpers when I guested on there).

ROTFLMAO! I knew my guild wasn’t the only one who made good use of the Quaggan Tonics!

Next time you’re in Quaggan Mode, use the dodge skill and enjoy the funny animation!

May the Great Mellaggan be with you!

Xyvol.1265:

Moto!

The genius inventor of the Super Adventure Box, a device that uses various technobabble words to create a virtual reality experience. SAB box focuses on “Edutainment,” education and entertainment in the form of an adventure game.

Why not use this technology to make a box that recreates historical moments from the past to archive and study?

Xyvol, you’re a genius!

((gives Xyvol a big hug))

I second this idea. This is exactly what new players need. That way everyone can be on the same page when it comes to understanding the LS. I think alot of complaints about LS are due to the fact that new players missed out on the previous content.

I join GW2 in October 2013, when Twilight Assault came out. The only way for me to understand Scarlet’s storyline was to go onto Youtube and watch gameplay videos that covered the updates before Twilight Assault. Not everyone has the patience or time to do what I did.

Unfortunately, the gameplay videos never covered the subplots with the NPCS (like Marjory x Kasmeer or the friendship between Rox and Braham), so I know I missed out on alot before Twilight Assault. I didn’t know that there was romance between the ladies until this update. I assumed they were really close friends or part of a sisterhood or roommates. Between Nightmare Tower and the Escape update, most of the story involving Jory and Kasmeer weren’t romantic and were very ambiguous. When I mentioned on the forums that the romance seemed so sudden, other players said that the romantic relationship was established prior to Twilight Assault.

The recap video that was released during Wintersday wasn’t enough because it doesn’t allow the players to go through the details of the previous events. It only covered what Scarlet and her minions did. It didn’t cover the other storylines.

Vinny.6924:

This is a pretty simple request.

Please stop adding achievements to this game that are based on other people’s skill level or ability.

I like to complete the achievements set forth in this game, every one of them. I simply can’t do that when I have to kill some big boss with no one getting eaten in an cocoon.

People don’t listen, the average player doesn’t read and does not want to be helped.

Its very aggravating that this is the last one I need and I camp this event all day and some random person causes it to fail.

Vilaptca.6037:

I honestly believe that the majority of our playerbase is illiterate. No matter how much you ask them to not do something in map chat, in say chat or in a whisper, they just keep on trucking.

Failed a lot of holograms fights because of two to three players that wouldn’t stop attacking a color when asked to.

In situations like this, pop the command tag then give written commands in map chat. The command tag is a very important tool to use during these large events. If you don’t have a tag, purchase a tag from the trainers listed here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Commander%27s_Compendium

A majority of players start listening to commands from a player who has this tag.

When I led the charge against the Toxic Spider Queen in LA, I popped the tag and told everyone to range the enemy. Everyone listened, and we all got the achievement.

I do the same thing for the Knights. Some folks don’t realize that the Knights have Condition Reflect during some parts of the battle. So I tell people when to attack with conditions and when to use regular attacks.

Ultravalefor.5038:

This happened, on my server, and no one called me?

I would have LEFT WVW for that!

Next time this occurs please send a tell to “Phaynel” and I will be there in under 5 seconds.

I will definately keep you in mind the next time I catch ERP in the Grove or Rata Sum. LOL.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Why is it that 75% of people are listing what new CONTENT they would like to see and not the FEATURES they would like to see, they are two very different things. EXAMPLES: (FEATURES); enhance the UI interface, skills revamp and fix bugs, (CONTENT); new dungeons, guild halls and GvG.

Thx for clarifying the difference between the two.

To answer your question: The average gamer doesn’t speak “dev talk” or industry lingo. To a player, content and features are the same thing.

Now back to the OP’s question. Here is what I think the game needs feature-wise:

1) Separate chat line for RPers. People RP on the Tarnished Coast server and the Piken Square server despite the game’s limitations. Financially, these people are necessary to keep because they buy the cosmetic stuff for their characters (like skin in the gemstore). Whenever I’m in Divinity’s Reach, the chat box is flooded with both OOC and IC messages (esp. Say chat and Map chat). It would help to know the difference between the two. Plus, a separate chat line will allow RPers to RP during events without interrupting the semi-hardcore and hardcore players.

2) The camera needs to be fixed. I’d like to get a closeup view and aerial view of my characters, but the game doesn’t let me. Plus, the camera acts jumpy and funny whenever my character gets stuck in a corner or tight spot.

3) Solo versions of Fractals and Dungeons. This is necessary for new players to game to get experience and practice before joining a PUG. The PUGs tend to perfer experienced dungeon runners with the best gear (exotic or ascended only), and they drop players for not having enough achievement points. There are puggers who will kick people off their team because they sold that player’s spot to someone else for gold. The current actions of unscrupulous puggers keeps new players from enjoying endgame content.

Rauderi.8706:

I realize this has been talked to death, but somewhere I started hearing rumors that maybe, just maybe, ANet was going to slow down their content patches to give the non-obsessives some time to finish things.

And yet, I’m still seeing the same old, tiring behavior as they continue to the finish of Living Story, season 1.

Here’s to hoping season 2 is actually paced well and interesting enough to warrant three- or four-week rotations.

I think a good alternative to 3-4 week rotations is making LS content a permanent part of the game (like the Aetherblade dungeon in TA). That way, casual players can take their time getting their achieves and catching up with the LS.

There also needs to be a good balance between skilled solo content and zerg content.

Spira.4578:

Cynz.9437:

.. i never pretended to be good…. or did i?

This makes two of us.

So you two are finally admitting you’re part of the Nightmare Court? :P

voidwater.2064:

They should add a “divorce arena” as well, where former couples can engage in trial by combat to determine the asset split.

ROTFLMAO! This would be something exclusive for Charr and Norn couples. I can definately see this happening in their society. Humans, Asura, and Sylvari wouldn’t do this.

If marriage is ever included in this game, I also want an option so my main and secondary characters could be officially married. I tend to RP those two as a married couple anyways.

Palador.2170:

For an example, I too have a sylvari that knew Ceara. He awakened around the same time as her, and discussed philosophy with her during her time in the Grove. Despite having some common ground at first, their outlooks on life diverged and eventually Ceara left to pursue her own agenda. He regrets that she went down the path she took, and wonders how close he’s come to the same mistakes.

The difference between the two characters is that mine was never an important part of Ceara’s life, and it meshes with the known lore about her. It’s stated that she studied during her time at the grove, and it’s easy to guess that she may have talked philosophy with people during that time, as she learned all she could from her fellow sylvari. In the end, a minor footnote, not worthy of recording.

Ah! Another person with a connection to an NPC! I knew my character wasn’t the only one with a connection. When I first mentioned my character’s connection to other RPers, I thought I was going to meet other players who made similliar connections with their PCs. Oh well.

BTW, it’s nice to meet you.

To me, the both of our characters are the same. In my view, a PC that was a servant of someone is a minor footnote. All the connection did was create a compelling motivation for my character — something that the Living Story never provides to players. It gave me and my character a personal reason to go after Scarlet.

Just to clarify, the word “lapdog” just describes what kind of servant he was — someone who was used as an entertaining pet.

The story “What Scarlet Saw” implies that Ceara was dysfunctional long before she became evil, so I never broke the lore at all. After she learned everything she could from a teacher, she threw the relationship away. That tells me alot about her morals and character. Ceara was a user. Most likely, she saw herself as superior to others. Karma (or the Universe or the Gods) eventually came back to bite her when Omadd decided to use her for his infamous experiment. She probably perceived him as a friend until after the experiment. During the Madness update, there was a picture of Omadd with daggers in his eyes.

In my personal RP experience, the Escape update was the first time I’ve met RPers who are sensitive about connections. In all other games (including Warcraft) people don’t care what others do as long as it doesn’t break the lore. And it’s not bad etiquette either. Just so everyone know, I’ve been RPing for about 20 years (I’m 37 years old in RL), so I know my stuff. The lore in this game has so many plot holes and gaps, so it’s tempting for RPers and writers to fill in those gaps. To me, the plot holes bother me so much that my inner author / editor has to appear and write stuff in.

Palador.2170:

You have to use a light touch when adding yourself to lore and backstory, to avoid conflict. Not everyone can be the Hero of Shaemoor, or the Slayer of Issomir, so most RPers simply skip that. It was someone else, not them.

Noted. I understand what you’re trying to say.

With humans, Norn, Charr, and Asura, this is easy to avoid because the social structure is very individualistic and encourages cliques (like mainstream American culture). Knowing Logan, Eir, Rytlock, or Zoija would be like winning the lotto in those socieites. The most connection any PC would have is being acquainted with who these guys are.

Sylvari, on the other hand, have a more communal culture (similar to RL Japanese culture or small-town American culture) where everyone has some connection to everyone (thanks to the Dream). Some people compare their culture to a beehive. You can observe this in the Grove when some NPCs talk about Caithe. Gossip is also rife in Sylvari culture, so everyone will have some sort of reaction to her. Plus, she is involved in every Sylvari PC’s storyline which makes her a Sapling Nanny. Trahearne is another one who would be well known among Sylvari thanks to his status and fame. Priory sylvari get double brownie points and the best treatment from him. A sylvari PC would also know who the menders are (esp. the menders who attend the character’s awakening— this was demonstrated in the short story “What Scarlet Saw”). A sylvari’s cycle would also get them close to one of the Luminaries who personally take up the role of teaching the saplings during their first few months of existence.

The point I’m trying to make: It’s impossible to avoid the inclusion of NPCs in an RP Sylvari’s background. That’s why the current taboo in the Tarnished Coast Rp community doesn’t make sense to me, a Sylvari RPer.

I’m only posting my experience here, so new Rpers can be aware of the situation on TC server.

bullyrook.2165:

Nah, it all makes sense now that they are being set up as dragon minions. Imagine the shock! Your closest allies, even yourself, may turn out to have been created by the world’s gravest threat.

Maybe they are children of Modremoth.

I’ve been getting this idea that Mordremoth is either the Pale Tree’s dark side or her evil ex-husband. I don’t think the tree is a dragon champion because she has 4 champions who protect her (aka the Luminaries). It’s curious that Pale Tree insists on assigning her children the role of dragon-slayers.

Palador.2170:

(Note: Yes, there are jerk RPers. No group is perfect.)

Yes, there are RP j___ and Lore Police. Luckily, they are a small elitist group on the Tarnished Coast server. If you encounter these guys, don’t let them get to you.

I encounter a few during the Escape from LA event. I got verbally fried for saying that my Sylvari Engie was once Ceara’s lapdog / servant and he was dead set in stopping her. Elitists got mad because I created a connection between an NPC and my main. Apparently, that’s a taboo on the Tarnished Coast server.

I don’t listen to them tho. I paid for access to this game, so I’ll RP how I want. If people refuse to RP with me then I will resort to writing fanfiction and share with those who love to read GWstories.

Silvercyclone.1462:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

I hope they release consistent updates on making the new LA into what we players decide. They could even have in game events that compete with each other for the design layout. For example, one massive multiserver wide event if it beats the other one at the time means la will have blue stone walls and the other event if it wins could mean la will have black metal walls. They could have a bunch of these massive events in-game over the span of a couple months until LA is rebuilt in the player approved style.

Anet could also make LA a guild instance and give it to us as sort of a guild hall. Very unlikely but it could happen.

Does the characters know Mordremoth rose? From what I understand they know the drill was for a drgon but it didnt say it was for Mordremoth. Is it possible they think it was to feed another dragon?

No, only Engineer Player Characters know this. There are no Engie Living Story NPCS at this time.

In the Scarlet’s Demise instance, an Engie PC can get access to the ship’s computer AFTER the NPCS leave. The computer tells everything: Scarlet was dragon hunting (It doesn’t mention Mordremoth by name tho).

HumaCarrionEater.8254:

I love Kas and Jory, but they’re not exactly breaking the mold. I think conventionally attractive women in a lesbian relationship is a lot easier for most people to accept. However, what I personally would love to see is a gay male relationship in the spotlight, where neither party is a stereotype, i.e. where neither of them is expected to play ‘the woman.’ or act flamboyantly. I’d also ideally like them to be human, because I find that other species don’t really ‘count’ to the average person.

Good job Anet on inclusion so far, just another hopeful suggestion from a queer player who is desperate to see gay men in an actual romance, as opposed to portrayed negatively or in a way that’s oriented around sex.

Like the good ol’ Sephiroth x Cloud stuff or Zack x Cloud stuff from Final Fantasy 7.

I’ll be really happy if they included (at the very least) a borderline gay relationship like what is seen in Genshiken Season 2 (http://www.crunchyroll.com/genshiken-second-season) . I like to be kept guessing if a relationship is LGBT or not.

Malediktus.9250:

I heared Scarlet cloned herself a few dozen times before attacking LA. Stay tuned!

You know, this up there with Scarlet being a new incarnation of Abaddon. Did anyone notice that her helmet (aka Scarlet’s Veil) looked an awful lot like Abaddon?

I’ve also heard rumors that Scarlet is on her way to becoming the 7th God.

Since it looks like we’re going to be going to the Magumma some time soon, here are some other possible villians for the future LS:

— The White Mantle: This group has a historical connection to the Magumma.

— Faolain and her Nightmare Court: I can definitely see these guys returning for round 2 thanks to Mordremoth’s awakening. We would definately get more Faolain x Caithe stuff. It’s also possible that Caithe’s secret is that she is already part of the Nightmare Court in order to stay by her lover and that Caithe’s statement during the TA dungeon story was false.

— The Toxic Alliance: These guys could come back since they’re a buffed-up offshoot of the original Nightmare Court. If this happens, hopefully we’ll see get to know the leaders of the group, their goals now that Scarlet is gone, and the drama than ensues within.

Lasica.5068:

They hardly just met, one of the conversations in game says they met 6 months ago. That is plenty of time for a business relationship to move to a friendship and on to a more intimate relationship especially with an obvious attraction between the two (as evidenced by their flirty conversations in updates last year which you obviously missed if you say there has been no meaningful buildup since October 2013).

As for a casual relationship… well they are living together now (the sign on Marjory’s door shows this) although this development is more recent and happened after the Marionette fight (in game dialogue showed them taking this step).

There have also been a lot of conversations (e.g. around the fire in Lornar’s pass during Escape from LA, and at the Lion’s Shadow Inn for the last 2 updates) that have progressed their relationship, but a lot of people missed that because they didn’t take the time to visit those location or stick around and listing to NPC conversations.

NOTE: I’m only posting this to clarify my previous comment / post.
—————————————————————————————————————————

That’s why I stressed the words “from my point of view”. I started playing GW2 in October 2013. Unfortunately, there is no way for me to go back to previous updates and watched what happened between these two characters. The content for most of the Scarlet arc was temporary. The only Scarlet arc item that is permanent is the Aetherblade Dungeon and (maybe) the Scarlet invasions (which doesn’t involve Majory or Kasmeer).

I was introduced to Majory and Kasmeer during the Nightmare Begins update. I’ve seen all the story instances involving our lesbian pair from that point on, but most of the stuff was involving the story, not romantic scenes. The relationship was ambiguous until the current update. The only way I know that the relationship is sexualized is because of the french kiss. Filmmakers in the US often use the kiss to symbolize a sexual relationship without resorting to bedroom scenes. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_kiss for more info)

Why I stress the need for building up healthy LGBT relationships: It’s no secret in the US that the LGBT relationships (fiction and non-fictional) are often exploited for cheap porn. Hollywood does this all the time to get people to pay for theater seats or watch their shows. The problem with portrayals that focus on only sex is that the religious right uses these images to say that the LGBT community is perverted and often use the images to hamper the LGBT rights. I’m a human right activist in RL, so I hate it when the media spreads images that give the haters fuel to deny LGBT people their rights.

The other issue I have is that GW2 is marketed to teens. For some of the teen players, this game may be the only time they ever see LGBT people in their life. Positive, healthy LGBT relationships are necessary to show that these folks are just the hetero folks. This game could help break down the stereotypes these kids are exposed to via the media and haters in their communities.

Then there is the fact that some of the teen players could be LGBT themselves. I remember when I was a teen. During those years, I would look at media to find and relate to celebs and fictional characters that were similar to me in some way. I did alot of this sub-consciously.

If GW2 was marketed only to adults, I wouldn’t be worried about the portrayal.

Sorry if I sounded like a mom.

Futrzasty.6034:

What do You people think?

This game is too dependent on the Living Story and the regular changes in gameplay. Without the LS, the player base would disappear due to boredom. Unlike GW1, there isn’t enough difficult content to last until the next expansion. I personally thought that LS would be used to add more permanent content to this game. Instead, the LS is used as a temporary content side-show which is majorly disappointing.

Farming and map clearing was allowed in the last game to help pass the time between expansions. I vividly remember farming Raptors for rare loot, and the dinosaurs were often buffed. It was impossible to kill a monster within seconds. GW2, on the other hand, doesn’t allow farming or map clearing. Farming and map clearing are supposed to yeild rewards like special loot, reputation points, and legendary skills / spells with certain groups. If I were to go to the GW2 version of Orr and start killing off undead, I hardly get any drops.

Eye of the North, the epic expansion for advanced GW players, was extremely difficult to get through and very time-consuming to get the reputation points to get certain prizes and titles. The dungeons took a good 2 hours or more to get through. Plus the dungeons had different levels to navigate (like the Nightmare Tower did), and there was a death penalty that made things more challenging.

In GW2, the content is way too easy for hard core gamers to get through. It’s too easy to level. I’m a semi-hardcore player and I was able to get from lv. 40 to lv. 80 within a week thanks to WvW! Many of my fellow guildees can get through a dungeon run within a half hour or less! A Fractal run takes about an hour and a half if there are experienced people in the group. Even Teq can be easily defeated by an experienced group within a short amount of time. The Twisted Marionette, The Triple Wurm, and Aetherblade dungeon are the only events that pose a challenge for hardcore and semi-hardcore gamers. Plus, this game doesn’t have enough solo content for times when our fellow guildies and friends aren’t online.

I think there has been a major change over in developers and creative talent for this game. The style of video game programming is very different, and I don’t think it’s due to the Havoc software either. I can tell that more of the people working at Anet are not video game programmers (no offense Anet). The inexperience shows in the updates having so many bugs, the gameplay for the base game is too easy, and the LS achievements can be finished a couple days after the update is released. Video game developers beta test their games with experienced testers to iron out bugs and determine how hard the game really is before the game update is released. Apologies to the Anet devs. I’m not trying to be mean. As an experienced, long-time gamer, this had to be said. All the other T-rated RPGs on the market have more challenging, time consuming content than this game.

Futrzasty.6034:

Do You also hate LS as I do?

No I don’t. The LS is unique. It’s just that the RPG story presentation needs work. People are getting confused the storyline, and folks aren’t paying attention to details. Players don’t have an emotional connection to the NPCs. Plus, we only get one side of the story: We only see what the PCs see. There really need to be cutscenes that show the bad guys, their personalities, goals, and plans. That’s standard in every story-based RPG I’ve ever played including MMOs like Warcraft.

I like how the gameplay is changed with each update. It looks as if the devs are learning alot from Nintendo and how that company changes their gameplay content while presenting the same characters and storylines.

Futrzasty.6034:

Do you also think it is detrminetal for this game?

No, the game is dependent on the LS.

Futrzasty.6034:

How many of You would like to see expansion instead?

Waiting for an expansion would kill this game’s player base.

RedSpectrum.1975:

I have no words for that magazine…….I- does that say sylvariphilia._.?

Yep! The word should be lachanophilia, which means obsessive love of vegetables. But Sylvari-phillia is more recognizable.

lakdav.3694:

The rumbling background sound akin to bubbles forming under the sea. The sea-blue color sceme instead of the usual green we would assign to forests. The brush-strokes not defining enough to see the difference at first glance, and most people might not care enough to take a second glance. Thats about all the reasons i can think of.

It could be that the colors on the computer were off. The computer color needs to be adjusted OR a new graphics card may need to installed.

On my computer, I saw the green forests, glowing insects, and trees. I automatically recognized the old Reactor as well as Twilight Arbor.

Plus the official GW2 wiki confirms that it’s Mordremoth that has woken up: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jungle_dragon

Bobby.3721:

Is there some kind of forum joke that people are in on? Every thread that basically talks about the elder dragon at the end cutscene always has these people saying that this is the elder sea dragon (bubbles). How in the hell can you watch that and rationally think to yourself “hmm that looks like the ocean it must be bubbles.” ?

I’ve said it before in a thread a while ago, the layline goes through Queensdale, through Metrica Province, and straight into the Maguuma Wastes. I can remember a video where a member of arena net specifically says that there is a jungle dragon in the Maguuma wastes.

It’s even fairly obvious in the cutscene that the area has plants, glowing insects, fallen trees, and there is even a butterfly.

Please someone explain to me why people think this might be in the ocean.

They’re probably the same people who think that Largos will be introduced as PCs when the heroes go to fight Bubbles. They want Bubbles so badly, that they chose to ignore the information in front of them.

Now I know why people didn’t understand the Scarlet story: They weren’t paying attention to all the visual and written details. Paying attention to detail is a required skill for every RPG game.

Archon.6480:

DarcShriek.5829:

Don’t simplfy Sylvari, kill them. Kill them all. Sylvari are dangerous. Look what they did to Lions Arch. Start with the pale tree and hunt down the rest.

Sylvari can’t be druid descendants. Sylvari came from seeds. They were created by the previously unknown god Monsanto. Which of course means that if a pale tree grows in your yard, you will be sued for patent infringement.

LOL, this had me in tears! Yes, and if you squeeze the too hard Canola oil comes out!

If you think that’s funny, go to the similar thread DarcShreik started in the Sylvari forum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/sylvari/Sylvari-are-evil-and-should-be-exterminated/first#post3745130

Now I’ve heard a rumor that if you squeeze a Sylvari just right, salad dressing comes out.

Daulnay.4971:

I agree, ANET should add a story/quest line where players can help someone enslave Quaggans (and remove them from a zone).

If we ever get a chance to play a Nightmare Court character, I want this to be the first quest on the list.

And when the Quaggans are removed, our Nightmare PC could terrorize a whole group of them by making one of the quaggans into a Quaggan Burger.

OldSomalia.6180:

I’m more interested in why a seemingly huge body of people would obsess over Quaggans in the first place; there is little interesting about them.

Quaggans could be removed and I wouldn’t even notice.

Play an Order of Whispers Sylvari to find out why. When the Order asks the PC which minor race they want to help, make sure to pick Quaggan.

Saving Quaggans with Tybalt’s help = GIANT WIN!

Advent.6193:

She probably was, until Faolain went all Nightmare-mode. Remember that love and hate are sides of the same coin

I bet you the two are still in a long distance relationship. Caithe does have a book in her house called Long Distance Relationships: 10 ways to Make It Work. See the picture below for proof.