Guild Wars 2

Now this is a tough one
Now that u mention it gtchill is right

If there’s anyone that’s going to kick our behinds it’s most likely going to be ehmry bay.

So do we go settle old scores with the old neighborhood bully
Or let logic take over and fight the new bully instead

The thought of kain and devona working together hand in hand to fight this looming threat flashes across my mind

/pukes

Lol judge your right guards mostly likely would heal more than warriors
But even by your math it’s 1300 ish heals versus 1000ish heals.
Not that gamebreaking to me

I’d also want to point out that you gave guards an unfair advantage
When u decided to count water runes and sigils for guards and not for warriors
Subtract that too and the difference gets smaller

And again the major turnoff for me to play a healer guardian is the dps. Like many posters said above the staff which you’ll be locked into at least half of the time is just a terrible dps weapon

You want to know how much I hit on a staff? 1.5k. Crits and 600-700 without crit. This is your staff autoattack. Now before you say this is awesome damage for a healer these numbers are from my guard in full zerkers ruby jewels and 45 pts in zeal and radiance

It is up to my imagination how much a support traited and and healpower geared guardian can do. But I assure u it must be ridiculously low

Things are surely different here in higher tiers
And i guess i too experience some of what Ralloff is saying too

Some of us , well actually maybe quite a bit of us from old Kaineng tier 8 were essentially puggers. Now i understand that major guilds are far more effective in most everything compared to us. I now feel that the puggers, once a major defense force against DR in tier 8 times has now became more or less of a liability to a certain extent.

Im a pugger too. And now with major guild like WM, RE, and SOS etc running around. I feel like im in a pretty embarrasing spot.

We dont really build ourselves to maximize our team effectiveness with the zerg. Most of us are more soloist self sustaining builds. Better for small scale strikes.
We also lack the communication and organization the bigger guilds have.

I guess its now the era of the big guilds and most of our matches will be decided by them up in tier 5. And randoms like us dont serve too much function anymore besides adding to the bodies heap.

Oh well…. i guess it could also be fun that way too. Id be going to boost that body bag count.

too much math cough…too much work

and these are estimates like their exact cos they most likely arent
while its true that warrior heals less hps when taking into cooldowns and stuff
considering 20 sec cooldown on shouts
according to wiki 1500 hp power
Vigorous shouts 2392×2 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Shouts
Banner heal 3840+650 http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compassionate_Banner
thats 4800 + 4500 burst heal right there
hey thats around 10k heal right in 10 second time span

…….wait it should be
In time span of 20 seconds
Warrior:
Timer start:
2x shouts 4800, banner heal 4500 = 9300
10seconds in
banner heal again 9300+4500 = 13800
20seconds in 2x shouts , banner heal 13800 + 9300 = 23100heals around 20 something seconds
banner heal 1 sec cast and shouts instant…so it should be around 23100 heals in about 22 secs

Compare with guardian
Timer start:
Empower 3-4k heal 3 sec cast 16 second cooldown = 3-4k heal
2dodge rolls 2 × 2k heals = 4000 + 4000 = 8000
staff 2 heal = round 10000 total
so empower 3 sec cast, 2 dodges about 2 sec cast, and staff 2 around 1 sec cast
6 seconds in
cooldown waiting time >>>>>
about 16 seconds in repeat all the above to get around 20k heals over 20ish seconds
You’d most likely heal more with guardians though when you fit in symbols and mace autoattack heals. Maybe hold the line too. But then those dont heal for really that much
maybe you can add 3-4k for guardians

Id say warrior heals give guardian heals a good run for their money though guardians should be healing more

meanwhile engineers heals for around 300hp bomb heals each second just by spamming bomb 1
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Elixir-Infused_Bombs
20 × 300 = 6000
medikit with 1.5k healing power = 1750 × 9 in about 25-26 seconds = 16000
elixer gun stuff = add 2k
so around 24000 heals in around 25-6 seconds

Dont want to do the math for eles but healwise but i believe they heal the most out of these 4 classes

Elementalist > guards > warriors > engineers
with prob 1-2k heal difference in 20 second time span

But heals alone arent all of the equation in a PVE dunguen environment

theres DPS in which
Engineer (bomb aoe spam) > warrior (longbow, rifle etc) > eles >>>>> guardians

and condition application where
Engineer > ele >>>>> warrior = guardian

Offensive support
Engineer = warrior => guardian >> ele
(tossup between whether you like fury or might)

Rez ability
only engineer has that one

The engineer does lag behind the other heal specs in terms of raw healing
But bosses in this game takes the extra healing you get on your ele, or guard in
half a hit

Maybe a matter of preference
But id take engineer superior dps, condition application, rez ability(which is huge in dunguens) over a healer guardian which heals for like 5-6k more but hits for next to nothing with staff and mace. And also with barely any condition or CC.

And then theres this thread made by engineers about engineer defense support PVE
which kinda echoes my theories about the class

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Defensive-Engineer-for-PvE-and-Dungeons/first

well sorry if im wrong about the engineer. I only have a lvl 10 one but i still think they can support ok

i tested medikit in WvW without any healing power. 1k heal per pack on 12 second cooldown. Shouldnt heal little when you do have healing power heal.

And that bomb spam heal trait still gives most likely what 2-300 heals per second?

also offensive support with runes of altruism?

the best heals guards got are selfless daring for like 2k every 5 seconds or so
4-5k heals in 10 seconds arent really that much. Empower on staff is good but its 16 second cooldown even when traited. prob heals for 3-4k
Sanctuary cooldown is too long to even worth considering in a healing contest. Same thing with elites.

So in 10 seconds we heal for about 10k when you add in prob symbols and stuff

not much difference from warrior
with 2k shouts and healing banner heal
or eles with all their trait heals
or engineers with medikit and elixer gun heals

And even if the guardian heals more than engineers
The healer engineer would still dish out much more dps than the guardian
Has access to probably every condition in game via bomb kit and elixer gun
while stilll having an utility slot for an easy rez
and has built in “for great justice” on group via runes of altrusim

I fail to see how guardians are superior support to engineers
Not mentioning eles too

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Still missing my main point.

This class is a role instead of a play style. All of the skills are pushing towards the role of being a supporter, whether that’s healing or protection doesn’t matter. The point is that it does it better than any other class, which severely limits the options available to other classes. I mean christ, one of the skills gives the guardian practically every boon in the game. It’s the ultimate support class in a game where every class is suppose to be able to fill any role. Sure other classes can do it, but this one does it WAY better.

So far the only proof that you have given to argue that guardians are the best healers and support class in the game is telling us that save yourselves gives every single boon available to guess what the guardian. Id be in the camp of people that thinks “You dont know what you are talking about”.

Since when did Save yourselves become a support skill? =.=

And i find it ironic that this is coming from an Engineer out of all classes.

IDK in my view Engineers best healer imo

You just have

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_Bandages
I dont have lvl 80 engineering but according to my understanding of the description:
3 X 1k heals in on 12 second cooldown
scales 50% with healing power for christs sake which would easily bump it to
3 X >1.5k heals in 12 seconds (idk how much healing power you can get at 80 but 1000 extra healing power should be no problem. In fact it should be more than 1.5k =.=)
it can be thrown too OMG which gives it a degree of targeting
So you can heal someone 4-5k on a 12 second cooldown.(not including toolbelt self heals) Its pretty good since most other class’s 6 skill only does that amount of healing evey 30 second or so.

And then you have elixer gun heals
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Super_Elixir
on 20 sec cooldown
and elixer gun toolbelt skill on 40 sec cooldown for aoe heals

Not to mention you can spam 300+ aoe heals every second with no cooldown at all
with a bomb trait according to this thread
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46740-elixir-infused-bombs/

Last but not least you have probably the bestest rez ability in the game
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R
Instant cast
1200 range
Lowest cooldown (2mins) rez out of all professions

Guardian best healer?? What are you talking about man?

All we get is staff heals on long cooldowns. Symbol heals which doesnt even tick for that much. A dodge heal for 2k. Virtue 3k heal on 60 scond cooldown. And tome of courage!!!! Wait thats actually pretty good heals too……..

But elementalists heal just as good. And engineers are still the best healers when specced for it

Oh yeah and how could i have forgotten……….

Engineers can take the trait which lets them bomb spam heal for 30 pts
which leaves them to go 30 pts more in you know that bomb tree
and 10 more points left for watever else you prefer

Healer guardians do next to no damage
Healer engineers could could heal like a pro and still dps like a pro

Get all healing power equipment and get 1000 hp. Get hp stack sigil and 250 more. Food for 50. Remember your traits to get you the bomb heal? well that line gives you extra 300hp. Add Dwayna runes for about 200 more hp and also its superior synergy with medi-kit.(5sec group regen everytime u use heal skill on 10 sec cooldown. What can i say? its just tailor-made for the engineer medi-kit)

wait…..scratch that use medi-kit with these runes
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Altruism
wow groupwide 100% 3 stack might uptime and 50% fury uptime……OP

1800hp translates to roughly 2k bandage drops and 300+ bomb spam heals.
All the while doing spectacular aoe bomb damage.

Id say it again. Engineer best healer.

Sumwun.3846:

Binafus.8153:

Kain is a server that is made up mainly of people who favor WvW and as we have more success there will most likely be more people join with the same mindset.

We have the makings of a great server community.

whats your map chat like in WvW? – i’m currently in the market for a new lawn.

My my our old enemy. Now looking to transfer here eh? /Raises an eyebrow

But i guess from reading the forums i think you one of the more nicer and reasonable DR weve had the chance to meet. I was looking at the Dev/borlis/maguma thread today. Good stuff. Drama is highly entertaining, especially when it doesnt concern you.

I wouldnt take sides in your server arguments. But yeah us at Kain know how u feel. Well weve been through weeks and weeks of Devona kitten talk. They were winning all that time too, which makes them go all out. Its weird here as your former enemy that i can share the same sentiments you feel towards that guy whose name starts with a “D” which also belongs in that guild who starts with a “P” Now theres more guys in “P” which are a bit kitten too but ill let that slide.

And no im not talking about who you think im talking about.
Im talking about Darwinism. He’s a total kitten!
Ok you guys can stop writing that flame post against me now

…………….i guess were buddies in a sense, we think alike.

About the current matchup.

Sometimes its fun when GOM can field some nice numbers. Most of the time its me waiting at spawn desperately for someone on the other side to come out. While telling the other 5 kains also waiting there to get in line cos i was there first…….in my mind.

Yeah I spawncamp. Problem? Spawn camp with siege though is a No though thats just cheap.

Not much fun. Guy from GOM just partied me to trakittenalk tonight too!. Man months in WvW and i havenet even got trakittenalk whispers ever. This a first. Lol so Mads

Not much fun, but ill bear with it, need ta move up. Or i use my free agent status again to find some more balanced fights and then only come back round tier 5.

….that sounds good

Aha

then u guys should stay at your spawn and dont come out

So that we move up faster yes.

While i understand the viewpoint from HOD and GOM and also feel that imbalanced matchups are not fun for anyone. Its more an issue with Anet’s transfer system then a KAIN problem. And i encourage you guys on the losing servers to stick it out. While its natural to vent in forums about how outnumbered you. You shouldnt be stopping there. Its important to keep fighting and keep the server morale up.

Devona and Kain has traditionally been tier 8 servers. For as long as anyone could remember. Many of us learnt to stick it out when were getting rolled and keep fighting. Its no coincidence that our population increased overtime. Both from transfers and from native homegrown pvpers. And your attitude in face of difficulty affects whether your server will grow or whether it will continue to diminish.

A bit of tier 8 history.

It came with Fergusons dropping to our tier. Kain was improving somewhat.(taking blue for once which seemed like a server first) Back then the fergusons still outnumbered us and Devonas was pretty much left in the dust. (Yes theyve been there too)

It was then that the PR campaigns by Fubuki were sent out and more people came to the server. Mind you this didnt change things overnight. Even with transfers we could only take 2nd place.

And then came the week……..prob the week that changed it all, the diverging point when Kain won for the first time.

It was not the transfers, it was not of a population advantage.
It was SoS and the nightcap…….and also the complete lack of presence of Ferg Asian timeslot

Ferg still outnumbered us at that time. I remember on Tuesday or wednesday. The Score was still lopsided 60k plus in favor of them. But then Chastor SoS and the Asian
army sprang out of the woodwork for the first time in history. We got 600pts tallies every night gaining 20k points every night. And we barely managed to force a win with 20k points over Fergies.

And we thought we would have good times ahead. How we were wrong! An unexpected monster was lurking in the shadows.

………..It was that server both we and Ferg rolled over the last week.

The Devonas…….

I still never got what exactly happened in that fateful week. I heard Devonas got some transfers. Which probably spurred up all their natives. And then Kain and ferg was slacking somewhat because of events.

But Devonas……that kid which we ganged up on turned into the bully overnight and resulted in 9-10 weeks of losses on our part. Complete with some first rate forum drama.

Now the morale of the story is…..you gotta stick through the hard times and do your best with what you have

Some lesser more fair-weathered people would have made the Kain story end right here by choosing to give up. Kinda like Fergusons now, they used to be the strongest of us 3 in tier 8. And now theyve lost enough that they cant beat SF now. A shame. In fact the small guild im in has already transfered for a month or 2 to BP and now im more of a free agent who goes to different servers but intends to come back to Kain when the fighting is going to get more rough in tier 6.

Youve faced DR before. You know how much people they can put out and how strong they are. We faced the same for 9-10 weeks. Were we destroyed? Yes. Did some people leave? Yes. (My guild left) But did a lot of stay there to fight against the odds and generally have fun doing it? Yes doubly so!

In those 10 weeks against DR. It was rare that we lost by more than 100k pts. We mostly were able to get around 200 point tallies around the clock. There were many of us still fighting. Ferg also was rather tenacious in defending their borderlands at that time and it was never a real steamroll. We held the DR which swept through tier 7 in a week for 9-10 weeks. And our best effort against them was in week 7 or 8 where we lost by about 20-30k pts. Most of the Devonas can attest to that. Us and Ferg most likely put up more resistance against them compared to some tier 6-7 servers they fought.

Kaineng had arguably less population then Ferg and was a true tier 8 server in a way before those 10 weeks of getting destroyed by Devonas.

After those 10 weeks. We are what we are now.

We GAINED population when we were getting destroyed.
Food for thought right there.

And now with transfers with WM and DE. I’d like to thank them now for coming since i hadnt done it before. We are probably looking at having 2 times or even maybe 3 times the population we had before those 10 weeks of defeat. (Id never had queues before ever)

So HOD/GOM guys. Dont feel too bad, well be moving soon. And keep your spirits up!
You may well be like Devona who rose up overnight. Or like Kain who actually got stronger through those 9 weeks of defeat.

And i patiently await the day for my rematch with the Devonas.
Gotta send them back to tier 8. Where they belong. duh!

I sense bias on necros. They can also man siege

No line of warding doesn’t stop them shooting

I know it drops but that’s what the might duration is for
Were talking about 90% increased duration here

Dont know if these affect combo fields but

20seconds from combo fields even without duration buff
6stacks time to cast is about 5seconds
Then 12stacks from staff 4, these last for more than 12 secs
4sec cast
18stacks and 10+seconds still on combo buffs
Virtue of justice is instant 3 more stacks

Easy 21stack buff in9 seconds
With about 10 more seconds till might stacks where off

I haven’t tested it but I’m sure 90% might duration is going to make it longer than 10secs

If u are still not convinced do it like this
swap save yourselves with purging flames
Hallowed ground>purging flames>2x mighty blow

Double fire field and blast finisher gives 12 20second might stacks out the gate(I think that’s how it works)
Now staff 4 for the rest

Easy 20 might stacks most of the time since purging flames and hallowed ground is on 32and64 sec cooldown respectively. Those 6 stacks from combo fields will have nearly no downtime because they last 20secs without might duration. And if they are affected by might duration their length would be doubled. They’ll last longer than your purging flame cooldown.

With double combo field with no downtime. Staff 4 buff with basically no downtime ,
voj 3 stack buf on 23sec cooldown even without refreshes. And empowering might proc.(these last for 9 secs btw)

20+stacks around the clock should be achievable

You should have
You don’t even need to use voj and empowering might

Probably not as bad as it seems at first glance
Extreme might stacking builds are fairly possible
If i go full support in WvW it would look like this.

need lots of dedicated gear though

Full WvW offensive support build!

Traits
20 in radiance
Renewed justice makes virtue of justice best support spell in whole game when things are dying all around you. Couple it with inspired virtues and might duration stack and its possible to get 10+ might stacks from this trait alone, like in supply camp taking. And dont forget that in total 25 second burn for team for each justice. Most underrated guardian dunguen trait everrrr. The extra precision also helps fuel empowering might.

30 in honor
I want Empowering might and two hand mastery.(explained in might stacking strategy section) And selfless daring too. Dodge all the time and heal your teammates.
(i thought about going 30pt for battle presence but i kinda believe its too weak a heal to change much)

20 in virtues
Mostly for the boon duration. Also Inspired virtues. Master of consecrations would seem a solid choice though since wall of reflection = pretty much best support skill guardian has in WvW . The trait also helps with hallowed ground duration and cooldown.
Now to gear choice….the fun part

Gear and utility skills
Weapon: Hammer and staff

Utility skills:
Reflection wall (cos its best support you can find)
Hallowed ground ( For fire field, stability is a plus)
Save your selves (optional…….but i always feel its good for charging, and the fury helps pump up crit rate for Empowering might. And then all those boons last extra long with your boon duration stack)

Armor and trinkets:
Hmm hard call for armor Stack Precision though lots and lots of it. For empower of course and the Crit for vigor trait > more vigor = more dodgeroll heals. Get other stats of your preference.

IMPORTANT!
search the trading post for the word “winter”
You should see some exotic jewelry which gives 2% boon duration per piece. Use those to stack boon duration longer.

Sigils:
+ crit chance sigils would be best. You really need high crit to fuel empowering might.

Runes:
Might duration stack
2x rune of the fire = 20%
2x rune of hoelbrak = 20%
2x rune of strength = 20%
20pts in virtues = extra 20%
Giver trinkets = 12%

90% might duration total. Making all your might buffs last longer.

Your mass might buff rotation should go like this:

Use hallowed ground first itll last for 12 seconds. Take out your hammer. Might blow for 3 might. wait 4 seconds, mighty blow again for 3 more. (If you dont know why its because of Fire combo fields and blast finisher)
6 stacks
Switch to staff and give 12 more stacks to everyone with staff 4
18 stacks
Activate Virtue of justice
And with inpired virtues your now up to 21 stacks

Now press 1111111 on ranger pets, necro minions etc crit on them and for 25 stacks of might from empowering might trait.

You have now reached the 25 might stack cap for five of your teammates. Now proceed to 111111 on staff. Or take out your hammer and deal some damage with your increased power. Rinse and repeat might buff process when it wears off. Staff 4 shouldnt even have a cooldown in might buffing at all with the increased might duration and decreased skill cooldown from 2hand mastery. So with staff 4 and staff 111111 alone you should easily be able to maintain about 15 stacks of might for 5 people with 0 downtime.

Spam your Justice virtue whenever possible. Tag everyone and everything. Your investment in virtue line would make the cooldown rather low for starters and every time something dies you can use it again becuase of renewed justice.

Yes and remember to spam your wall of reflection whenever its up.

The only downside though is that this leaves exactly no room for either AH or monks focus. Toughness and crit damage woulkd also be a bit on the low side. But i guess you cant have everything and 25 stacks of might on your group makes up for it in its own way.

We have queues now!!!??? o.o

guess i should come back soon before the server goes full

To me, WvW is the place where mostly any kind of build or playstyle will work. Many many builds are situationally good and as long as you stick to your builds strengths and play accordingly, you will always be useful in someway.

Like my main the guardian.

While its cookie cutter mainstream build is to go tanky and support. There are other more niche builds which do something else better.

AH, meditation tank builds are best as frontliner

but there are other builds too

Like, spirit weapon builds, concecration dedicated builds for walls and shieldss
….lol resser builds for ressing. Burst judgebomb builds. Soloer roaming 1 on 1 builds.
Full-support major healing boon stacking builds etc.

Your cookie cutter build is best for tanking
But your support build is better for support
your solo build is best for small skirmishes
Your judgebomb build lets you play lieke a backstab thief
and your wall builds are good gimmicks for zergs

I can not say that one playstyle or build is more valuable then the other in a team setting. Especially when its so zergy in WvW freeing up more people to not go with the most standard builds.

Most of the QQ in WvW amounts to people trying to do what their build doesnt allow them. Its a give and take. There is no BEST build.

Like fighting a thief.

Youll survive better with bunker. But glass cannons finish them much easier.

Balanced builds are jack of all trades. Support is good team player. But sucks major solo. Glass cannon ranged classes excel in a 20 man zerg or in siege defense. But are terrible in small skirmishes.

There is no build that could do everything. Its all about finding your niche.

And i would also say that most of the builds you listed would be viable. You just have to stick to your strategy and not to do something you are not built to do.

Ill list why most of them would be useful in its own way and their strong points.

Turret engineer. I dont agree that grenades are the only way to go. As a guardian Net turrets are one of the most threatining stuff on the other side more than anything. Its auto lock meaning everytime i charge itll hit me. Also picks up theives who dont render too. The immobolise is the difference of killing that meelee charging into your zerg and letting him walk away. TLDR. Net turrets are great anti-meelee. Healing turrets i suppose would also be good support. And i see no reason that you cant mix turrets with grenades.

Phantasm mesmers are like the hardest class to kill in a zerg. It also has the effect of making your zerg look bigger. And blocks attacks for your team since many people tab target and waste their attacks on you phantasms.

I dont know about banner warriors on the other side. But every time i see a banner warrior on my zerg im happy. Cos i know im a bit stronger.

…………………Summon weapons elementalist………….
bah…..maybe this wouldnt work…….but its flashy

Summon necromancer. Id say you would prob be more useful applying mass conditions on the other team. But i guess your minions would make good distractions in a zerg fight along the same vein as Phantasm mesmers.

I guess ive been fighting either with or against the Fergusons to be quite fond of them in a sense.

So ill be cheering for you guys when Kain eventually moves up. Who knows, when the Devonas left, we became strongest this tier. When Kain moves up it migt be Fergs.

Support

depends on the aoe

i find my guardian binding blade(does this count as aoe) which hits thieves in stealth too and then Whirling wrath combo wildly effective against them

but i can see how staff ele meteor storm, fire 2. Ranger arrow storm
……..or lets just say any aoe which puts a red circle on the ground telling everyone to stay away from it to be pretty much useless against thieves

I dont know why people are always saying glass cannons do terribly against thieves
this is speaking from a glass cannon guardian with less then 11k hp

We kill glass cannon backstab thieves just as fast as they kill us

Any thief who isnt specced tanky is a dead thief to me when they render

And tanky thieves dont really kill anyone so i choose to ignore those

90% of my thief encounters in WvW goes like this

Some backstab burst thief opens up on squishies like rangers,,, staff eles stuff like that
kills their target

meanwhile neglecting their true threat which is me and i buff up and stuff
Judeges intervention on top of them and kill them before they finish their stake animation

Its just a matter of going glass cannon……..WAIT FOR THE THIEF TO UNLOAD ON THE GUY NEXT TO YOU AND RENDERS. AND PUSH 1 2 3 4 5 ON YOUR KEYBOARD FOR PROFIT. (this sentence is in caps for emphasis because it is the core skill/strategy as a glass cannon to win against a thief)

If you arent killing a backstab thief with 1 2 3 4 5 combo, my guess is you arent a glass cannon and you are actually a tank. Or the thief you are fighting isnt a glass canon backstab and so that would also solve your problem of getting 13k steal>backstab>hearseeker instagib.

nah bunkers and glass cannons serve different purposes in WvW

saying bunkers > glass cannons out-right isnt really true

in fact …… i kinda feel any kind of build works in WvW when your part of a 20 man zerg as long as you know what you are doing

Bunkers>glass cannons maybe in Spvp and small group fights

But i dont think its true in zerg vs zerg fights which is usually what WvW is about

well not really tired of losing 1on1s…..prob win more than i lose
but ive seen people mention spirit builds are best for guardian 1v1

Why?? Whats the reasoning behind it???

Air.6452:

Seems like there is a lot of tension between ET and Kain this week.

Why all the hate?

You should have seen our drama with the devonas

The hate is really tame atm

im actually kinda missing the drama. It used to be like a reality TV show. It was amusing as much as it was stupid.

CaptainOok.1048:

I play both pve and spvp, so why shouldn’t I get gold for doing spvp?

Because you simply dont use gold in spvp?? You get all your gear for FREE???

Not like its hard to understand

If we dont get gold in WvW

WvWers would:

1. all be running around naked because when we die, we pay repair bills, not like in spvp
2. no one places siege since they use gold
3. no one upgrades stuff anymore because they require gold
4. the only gear we can get is now Pow, Vit, Toughness gear since we can only get 1 set
through badges. And no money to buy gear anymore
5. forget about legendaries and ascended gear too
6. You better be making your own foods, runes and sigils because you have no money to buy them off the TP, and no we dont get those from badges
7. Forget about accessories too since you cant get those in WvW, and yes we dont get those from badges too

Did i miss anything? most likely i did…….

As it stands now……the only thing you can get with badges now is 1 set of ugly armor and a few pieces of siege

Remove gold gain from WvW and you might as well delete the whole game mode

Not to mention its much easier to get money in PVE compared to WvW
and its also much much much easier to get an armor set from dunguen tokens rather than badges

With the terrible effort to reward ratio in WvW compared to PVE in truth what is really happening is PVE stealing all the WvW population

Look at the WvW forums, look at how everyone is saying WvW is dying because it isnt rewarding enough.

And yes i personally make a lot more money in PVE compared to WvW
Since its siege dreaming bay for an hour, racking up repair bills and making 6 silver when we finally take it omg…..nevermind all the 24s trebs, 12s cats and 6s rams the other people are putting down, im barely scrapping a living out of this mess
Compared to killing a karka in Southsun cove, and looting a karka shell worth 4 silver in 10 seconds

This post! This post!!

Yes! i agree 100%

@Chaster
“Oh, just another fun convo I had with someone on the battle field the other day
SomeNewPlayer: Hey, I’m new, what is the best guild in Kaineng?
Me: There are no best guild in Kaineng.
SomeNewPlayer: Not even Kain? KR? SoS? CNB?
Me: Nope, because everyone is equally great.
SomeNewPlayer: But I mean what is the main force for Kaineng?
Me: Everyone that have spend even just one second in WvW is part of the main force.
SomeNewPlayer: Eh, how about what good guild in WvW?
Me: Every guild that are willing to sacrifice their time and effort in WvW, is a good guild.
Me: FOR KAINENG!
And that, is what WvW is all about. Every bit counts. So if you have stepped in WvW in just one second, you should feel proud, even if you did nothing. "

That was touching . /Cries

tries to see if i can put it in my sig

just need to shorten it while not losing out on the feeling …. hmmm

Sigh….well at least we still have quite a bit of people who is willing to fight when times are tough

What i have learnt by now is that most of our Kaineng large guilds are not to be relied on. Just have seen it happen too much.

Kwbh = transfer to dev
Ispy/Warr = dump us using dispute with Kain as excuse
Larp/Noqq = idk…….we want to fight other people
SoS = well there still here…….but i guess there not the type to fight when the going is rough

Not to mention that Kain/Ispy/Warr etc never even fielded huge numbers in the first place

Stand strong Kaineng randoms, puggers, casuals, id say we are the backbone of our force

We have got some mighty numbers this week………i guess DR leaving has made everyone come out again

It has been so long in tier 8 and id say these months of Devona, Kaineng, Ferg battles has made all 3 of us stronger. Now with Devona gone and proving what us in old tier 8 are capable of in tier 7, i wont be surprised that Kain and Ferg move up eventually too.

I shall take pride in being a part of tier 8 history, we’d have some stories to tell the next generation about.

Well props to everyone this week for fighting good fights. Fergs are still dangerous as ever. And itll be nice if you guys can keep up the competition since youll want your ratings anyway.

ET also has some pretty strong players here and there. Dont see you guys around too much though.

GL to all. Months have i fought in Kaineng trying to improve and also for the fun of killing.

I still remember when i was lvl 30 and entered WvW for the first time. Our first win ever against Ferg no less due to SoS nightcap lol. Having nearly lvled 30-80 through WvW alone lol. And all our drama with the Devonas and those grueling weeks we endured under their superior zerg……….

Proud to fight in Kain and be a part of tier 8 history. And now as Kaineng comes closer to our second win EVAR and its looking like we are now not one of the suckiest server
in NA and is now looking to move up a tier or too. I shall wipe an emotional tear from my eye and know that these months of fighting have not been meaningless.

GG

1.20/25/25/0/0 traits
2. berzerkers ruby everything, offensive runes sigils
3. offensive foods and oils
4. Greatsword, staff, charge up with empower before burst
5. Offensive racial elites
6. Offensive ultilites like Save yourselves, JI, Purging flames
7.. good skill rotation to maximise damage from traits, like blind exposure,

The burst you could do is actually really high if you go this way, but then again you have to be a bit crazy like me to dare do something like this……..

And the traits are very very important.

1.20pts in zeal for added power, 15% damage increase in Fiery wrth and greatsword trait
25pts in radiance for crit and radiant power for extr 10% damage
25pts in honor?? or is it value for crit damage

2. self explanatory

3. same as above

4. empower gives 12 stacks of might which is a big deal, GS is still your best burst weapon

5. not gamebreaking, but having something like Hounds of balthazar does boost damage even further

6. Save yourselves is obligatory, Purging flames and JI burn ticks off 5-6k hp by itself which is like half the health of thieves,

7. GS blind and Vitue of justice gives 6% vulnerability now after patch, precasting some offensive skill before your JI also helps

@Shady C “And I’d wager at least 90% of WvW’ers are just PvE’ers who want to casually participate in the Big Boy Game of PvP”

You have no idea what you are talking about

bah,, Spvp elitists

WvW arent casual at all

ever tried fighting a 30 man zerg with a 10 men group? and said 30 man group is online to kill you 24/7

makes Spvp look casual

if you want balanced pvp go to spvp

with that said WvW is still easy since getting to 80 and gearing up in exotics is still not much of a grind compared to most other games

not like low lvls are useless either….
just follow the zerg

if your not 80 and is running alone, your just doing it wrong

Ehh transferred to a winning server this week following my guild buddies………
And guess what , the PVdoor and 20 steamroll 5 people gets boring really really fast
WvW became so boring that its more fun to grind mobs over and over again for mats

So when is Devona moving up a tier?

Ill be waiting with enthusiam for my transfer timer to refresh.

Its either GoM to stalk Devs which we have lots of scores to settle with

Or back to Kain to face a new imposing, threat. aka eredons terrace
Tough decision
Sounds fun though

Oh and Isdfir u left? Im not amused

I guess there is nothing really wrong with vertical progression. Like 99% of mmos do it. Not something that is wrong. But lets just say that is doesnt really work in this game.
Right now, we are getting a mix of vertical progression and horizontal progression. With the developers too scared to go throughout on either.

So what results is getting the worst of both worlds.

If it was real horizontal progression, it would have been an easy mode grind with next to nothing stat increase.If it was real vertical progression, it would be a much harder grind, but when you do get the gear. You get to be super leet with your super leet stats, and pew pew 2 shot anything that stands in your way.

In guild wars 2 gear is,

As hard to get as gear in vertical progression games (legendary grind like one of the hugest grinds ive ever seen)

While offering kitten stats on said very hard to get gear. Which doesnt satisfy my desire to 2 shot people at all.

Basically the result is = you get to grind months for some stupid item which is practically useless = very boring

Yeah, doesnt seem like a good use of my time.

And this is totally why im a glass cannon guardian in WvW….
Well as glass cannon as a guardian can get anyway…..

Since were pure meelee dps, we end up taking most of the fire most of the time.

The trick is to have enough damage to waltz into the zerg and be able to deal a significant amount of damage in a short timeframe before you get focuse fired.

Compare with a more tanky set up which does half the damage i do.

With burst build i prob need 3-4 seconds inside a zerg to do something significant.
With tanky builds i need twice the amount of time to do the same thing.

3-4 seconds in a zerg = most people havent tabbed you out yet due to the element of surprise.. ( Judges intervention works wonders, there is no counter to it you blink in instantly, with the element of surprise, you would probably have finished your job before your opponents have reacted.)

if your a more tanky build you will likely need 6-8 seconds to do the same damage. And it gives too much time for your target and the zerg to react to you. Your target will heal up, and the zerg will have targetted you out by now. And that extra tankiness isnt going to save you when 10 people are shooting at you really. As youve explained in your post.

While i do not advocate more offensive builds over tanky builds in WvW. Tanky builds seems to favor larger more coordinated groups for backup and support for it to be effective. It should be pretty great when you have multiple meelee charging in at the same time to divert the attention which is where tanky builds will more likely shine.

For me and what is likely the situation of the OP. You are probably charging into the zerg solo. And this is where an offensive build shines.

Sometimes the old saying is true.

Offense is the best defense.

Like my motto with thieves. Dead thieves do no damage. You mitigate more thief damage by killing him more than any amount of toughness.

The same works against the zerg.

By killing my target in 3-4 seconds instead of 8 seconds. I dont need to suffer from the extra 4 seconds of concentrated fire from 10 people. Arguably im probably more survivable than a tanky person because i expose myself to open fire from 10 people much less than them.

Its pretty much blink in > kill someone in 5 seconds > get out before everyone knows what happened > profit

im under the assumption that the projectiles add to the range of the move……….
well in reality it probably doesnt……….idk seems to miss a lot to me

but anyway id keep the projectiles.
Since its a projectile finisher, and projectile finisher, means more effects in either your fire field or light field.

So no to pure meelee

I mean it wouldnt make sense for it to be a finisher that shoots out flaming bolts or condition removing bolts if its a meelee move right.

Am i like the only one who actually really loves the GW2 guild system?

I personally think being able to represent or stand down from a guild is one of the best things to happen in this game.

I usually hang out in a smaller guild who i run dunguens with, are most familiar with, talk in chat with.

But i also have a bigger guild which purpose is for me to go WvW with since they can field bigger numbers and has commanders and stuff.

And then theres the other random guilds that invited me which i dont know well but im still happy to meet some new people there.

Idk, it seems awesome to me.

Blaming guild hopping and guilds failing on this system doesnt seem right to me. If you want someone to represent your guild more you can always whisper him. And i see more guild hopping in games without this system.

Like WoW in which the article writer played.

New players would join the guild. Find that the guild doesnt give them what they want. Leave the next day. The turnover rate is really really high when you can only be in 1 guild.

With the GW2 system, people are not forced to leave guild when they want to go somewhere else. And all it takes is a whisper to people in your guild list not representing and you can find them somewhere.

I think the GW2 guild system discourages guild hopping actually.
I agree that a dunguen finder here would be gret though.

Im farming 250 powerful bloods for an ascended backpiece. And you bet its very very boring. I get about 1 blood every half an hour. Yeah and i can guess how long it will take me to get 250.

I have probably spent a week on and off grinding these bloods. got about 50 now. Joy.
And i neccessarily have to take breaks now and then, do other more fun stuff to not make myself quit this game.

Meanwhile. The 3 bots grinding next to me 24/7 have no doubt grinded out more than 250 bloods now. Yes i didnt bother to report them.

The irony of legendary weapons………..

Its supposed to be very legendary. An achievement that only the best of the best can attain.

Well not in this game. Dumb bots can get legendary weapons faster than all of you can…….
How legendary is that?

Provided that your not pro TP player and make 100g an hour that is

Lets just say there is very little reason to go for a burn build over your standard precision/power/crit damage build

Burn will do much less damage however you gear or trait for compared to your meelee direct hits

And i say this from experience…….

I already use Purging flames and Judge Intervention in pvp
Coupled with fire combo field and finishers its about 13-14 seconds of burn for about
6-7k damage.
And this 6-7k damage is with me already with about +400 condition damage with 20pts in zeal and 12 stacks of might

Not bad right..?

But then your greatsword swings hit for 2k crits doing the same damage in 3 seconds and you realize your burn damage is essentially crap…

With full condition damage gear you could probably boost it up to like 8-10k over 15seconds???? not that it matters though since i can crit 8k on 2 second whirling wrath anyway =.=

Its a nice supplement for our damage but i see no point in building your entire character over it

makes me wonder how i used to pay 2g a piece for my draconic armor and ruby accesories. Given those stuff need 30 ectos per piece. Those crafters are selling at a loss or something.

Oh and farming everything yourself does NOT mean its free. You can farm all the mats and craft it for no money. But you could otherwise have sold all the mats on TP if you didnt craft the stuff so your losing money anyway.

In other words……Crafting is useless now, nothing more than huge money sink for little gain. Not profitable at all.

Either way,, this game is getting really really grindy. So grindy that im feeling its much on par with AION, another really grindy game rather than others…..

Working on 250 vials of powerful blood
Gets a rare from grinding mobs like once every 2 hours?……..
50 ectos making it even more expensive…..ouch

So much for ascended gear requiring minimal grind

It probably should be increased in pve

but leave pvp alone

removing the stack cap on bleeding or buffing poison/burn in some way would make them too strong in pvp

So much drama everywhere again. Cant have 1 week without it.

Lol at all the DR chiming in on our guild drama though its none of your business.

And LARP ok you guys are now KOS. You want a fight? Your gonna get it now.

And Drednyte, no i refuse to attack Ferg. Im in tier 8, im not afraid of going down a tier becos its impossible. I also prefer to go after the biggest server. Rather than picking on the server with the lowest Pop. In the 1 and only week that Kaineng won, i personally focused on Ferg and tried to ignore Devonas whenever i could for the same reason. First or nothing, dont care for second place. Lol stop trying to incite us into fighting each other all the time. Were not gonna fall for it

And to everyone on all servers. That was some seriously intense fighting last week. Got lots of fights everywhere 24/7 last week. We’re all trying really hard to win this. Everyone really brought in good fights.

And props also to my fellow comrades of Kaineng. I see many of you play much more than you should last week and the result shows. Only lost by about 15k points. I had hope that wed win on thursday lol but nice try anyway. People like Darx, Sbullet, Valak, Kouge, CnB guys, Noqq guys, Skorse and many other people are always out there when i log on. Great fighting last week from everyone also all the other people and the low lvl people too. You guys help a lot too.

We put up a great fight last week. Lets not let guild drama get the best of us now.

Sadly……i think i need to farm some 250 powerful bloods this week for an ascended backpiece so less fighting this week……the horror! Still ill go fight some Devona now and then anyway. Well not like a random person in a random guild like me makes an impact anyway.

Anyway rock on Kaineng. Were gonna try hard till eventually Devonas moves up……..

Oh and have fun everyone on all 3 servers. There really is a lot of hostility nowadays between the 3 servers. Well mostly Kains and DRs. Its a game guys. Dont need to go insult each other on forums getting all cranky and angry each week. High blood pressure is bad for your health.

Regards to everyone, Representative of Kaineng randoms : Guardian Leysrit

i play WvW and dont Spvp, so take my comments as that

kinda hard to get same answers to your question though since we play different builds, gear differently etc. So the experience could be quite different

FYI. I run a full offense build in WvW with 20/25/25/0/0 traits and zerker evrything
Yes its a no vitality DPS monster

1. Depends if you count lowbie kills too
if you count all the scaled up lowbies i easily kill. id say 90% win rate
80s only i could still prob boast of 70-80% win rate
prob depends on the general quality of your opponents though /shrugs
Id say the only class which i fear to face 1 on 1 is a mesmer…………..

2. Id say its very viable. Greatsword guardians there everywhere

3. I run with 11k hp. Warriors easily have twice as much as me.
Doesnt stop me from killing them 1 on 1 though. Id say not an issue
Ive also run more tanky 0/0/30/30/10 builds before. Those make you quite tanky even with low hp pool

4. If you run a burst build like mine its DPS is very high. I mean it. Try it out yourself.
Decent DPS for your normal 0/0/30/30/10 builds.

5. Whether something is faceroll or not is very subjective. No comment.

my favorite is reaper of grenth

chill and poison for more than 10 seconds makes most ranged classes easy kills

Id say that most class would be good one way or the other as a low lvl. Depends on your preference. What i feel what differentiates between a good low lvl or a bad low lvl though is WvW awareness.

Which could be summed up as not doing stupid stuff.

Some simple pointers to follow and low lvls can help too

1. Always have 10 supply
2. Do supply runs to repair doors, walls
3. Do NOT take supplies from towers/keeps
4. Dont hit on doors without siege
5. Develop the habit to scout for enemies behind you instead of autoattacking doors
6. Stay with the zerg
7. Stay in middle of the zerg (half of my WvW kills are from low lvls who walked too far out)
8. Roll/dodge/heal when arrow cart/ballista is firing at u (9/10 who gets killed by arrow carts are low lvls)
9. If by chance i die to an arrow cart. DONT try to rez me. You will die too.
10. Rez people if u can.

hmm something like this

Now you know what it feels like to play a guardian in a siege. And we have less attacks to hit people on the wall.

Dont worry, you guys will get used to it just like us.

I still think you guys are better at hitting stuff on walls though.

If there ever was an alliance……….

It surely was a very ineffective one

we just kill Fergs less because we run into them much less than Devonas. But when we do run into each other…… Its ON!

Every time i see a Ferg, they try to kill me. Really.

Ah well, speaking from somebody from the lesser guilds. You usually find me representing MWF Meowanfish. Bet you havent heard of it right. Us randoms do appreciate all the bigger guilds out there putting up a fight. Whether its Kain, Ispy, War, Noqq, Larp, SoS etc. Props to everyone still fighting and also to the randoms too. Many good players out there.

Were all in this together. Lets not start some stupid inner-server guild drama.

Also, nice fight in EB just then. You know if your there, props to the people defending Danelon. Was a fun meatgrinder. Though it saddens me everytime i look at the score. I mostly WvW for the fun of killing some people. And looking at 5-6 devona bodies lying there cheers me up.

And to the Devonas, I have probably fought you guys long enough to grow a bit fond of you. Might be a bit sad to see you move up a tier. But ill be secretly rooting for you guys when you go up to tier 7 against BP and GoM. Ill also miss your lowbies.

I guess its just work/school/sleep issues on weekdays. And the fact that many people go all out during the weekends to somewhat boost the score a bit.

I represented KR on Friday night, it was Saturday afternoon for me. But many of their guys stayed up late till 3-4am where they lived.

Our WvW population isnt that big. On weekdays it mostly goes like this. A bit outnumbered during US prime time. Could barely hold out Devonas. Usually Devonas get 100 pt lead during this period. During the transition between US and Asia primetime. (Primetime in my definition is 7-12pm of a place) Theres a pretty big gap to fill in our population. Mostly you dont get more than 10 people defending or attacking and you lose a lot of points. In Asia primetime, our numbers are actually still quite low and SoS guild is the only thing which salvages this timeslot. With them, we can take most of EB and get a surge in points. But without them, Devonas get a lead also. And i know these numbers from experience since i dont work on all weekdays.

Id say not to get discourages Chastor. SoS is VERY important to fill Asia primetime timeslot.

But of course theres the fair weather players who dont come out unless theres a huge zerg train capping objectives so that they can get easy xp and karma. Cant help with that though.

I also go very aggressive against thieves. Although more toughness and vitality should work very well against those guys too.

Dead thieves and thieves running for their lives do no damage.

Most of the time i find the guardian class to be a very good thief counter. The only problem is that they could be very slippery and be able to get away. Luckily that doesnt happen too much.

glass cannon actually works pretty well in WvW
quite underrated i think

dont recommend the palidan 2.0 build though. Going 30 pts in zeal isnt a good idea. OK for pve but not good for WvW

use the build like this guy in this video

Valor line is too good to pass up. It increases your armor. Your damage via crit damage. And opens up AH or monks focus. The extra power you get from Zeal doesnt justify not putting points into the Valor line. It is very likely that the extra 25% crit damage will do as much damage as 200 power anyway.

FYI i go full glass with 20/25/25/0/0 traits. And power up with staff 4 before charging in.
But you might want to go with the build in the video instead as its less risky

wow it gives much more stats than i previously thought o.o

doesnt even have infusion in it too

Im a bit of a judegebomb guardian like the poster above. I spec very offensively and frequently find myself charging headfirst into the zerg………usually solo and try to land a kill quick and get out. (I love wall of reflection too, but it gets boring after a while)

So my priority of targets are things which i can kill really really fast :

1. Anything that has green arrow beside their name
If im going to risk my life charging into group of 10 people. I want someone down FAST, lowbies we can kill in a few seconds are top priority

2. rangers
there squishy, dont run away fast, dont hit me too hard. good target

3. thiefs
they do have stealth on their side. But 90% of them are glass cannons. And im a glass cannon too. = we kill each other 3seconds flat. They are the perfect target for me to JI blink into their face and kill because the majority of them die in a burst rotation.

Some i dont like to jump.

Necros. Because of lich form, takes too long to kill. The zerg will kill me before i finish them. Warriors, they have their invulnerability, impossible to pick them off before they run back into the zerg. Guardians for obvious reasons.

And engineers are on low priority because some of them are quite tanky somehow. Mesmers are also troublesome with clones.

nah id rather they have stealth cap removed. Yesterday was rolling around in group of
7-8, 1 single thief prevented the capture by 10 minutes.

Well yeah, maybe we were quite awful at catching him. But when thieves can spec for perma invisibilty without ever hitting someone. its hard for anything that isnt a 20 man zerg to throw aoes randomly on the ground in the hopes that he will actually die. Damage on the thief doesnt even reveal him. Mix this in with the render issues and it becomes ridiculous.

No other class can do stupid stuff like this.

Anet has failed to fix game mechanics like rendering and stealth cap in WvW. As a result, everyone on the forums comes to QQ about thieves on a daily basis leading to Anet nerfing you guys into the ground because of game mechanics but not even the class itself.

Are thieves OP without the render bug?? Debatable. With render bug ? Yes they are OP. result = nerf thief skills rather than fix the game rendering which i guess is too hard for them to do and they dont want to admit it.

Fix the stealth cap, and the community can leave your permastealthing thieves in peace. Win Win? Nice compromise?