Guild Wars 2

Feanor.2358:

lucadiro.4519:

Feanor.2358:

Eles are certainly not “required” for any raid content. That’s to say, you can clear everything without ever having an ele in your squad. You can also clear everything with one, of course.

You can clear every encounter without any specific DPS class, you can clear every encounter without be in 10 and you can clear every encounter even without chornos and warriors.

But unlike the ele, a missing PS or Chrono would require a lot more skill from the players.

Yes, and you can change the word “ele” and insert “ANY other DPS class” and you sentence Will not change.

To the op: don’t let people influence your choose. If you like ele, and you like master an hard class to play, ele is still optimal both in pvp and end PvE.
In PvE Tempest is still the best choose in fractals as DPS.
Yes we have to say that there are some raid encounter where take ele as DPS is not very optimal (Mursat overseer, Deimos) and other encounter where take ele is Just brainless stupid (cairn, Matthias).
But even in cairn and Deimos you can Just choose to take a magi ecquip and do the kiter role, that is Just good as a revenant is at doing that.
For PvP you have to play a support role since DPS ele (aka fresh air) is underpower vs the powercreep around. But healbot Tempest is the best support class in pvp.

Feanor.2358:

Eles are certainly not “required” for any raid content. That’s to say, you can clear everything without ever having an ele in your squad. You can also clear everything with one, of course.

You can clear every encounter without any specific DPS class, you can clear every encounter without be in 10 and you can clear every encounter even without chornos and warriors.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

For revenant – a trait that basically makes torment tick full damage if enemy is under movement impairing condition like cripple, chill or immob.

Totaly agree, is since the release of revenant that it Need a ONLY PVE trait that make you do full torment damage even if target doesn’t move.
Tons of people already asked for that in revenant subforum.
Hope arenanet Will listen One day

zealex.9410:

lucadiro.4519:

zealex.9410:

lucadiro.4519:

zealex.9410:

lucadiro.4519:

Sublimatio.6981:

i disagree, i love current necro build. blood magic is pathetic because it revolves around downed state, which is something nobody should be doing in the first place.

Totaly agree
I played necro back in the past before lichfrom Nerf and to me it was really boring.
Now I reageared up it again, and I falled in love with the new gs soul reapering rotation.

i would change deathly chill to make it so aplying chill aplies dmg and make it scale with power boom power necro is viable as kitten

Taking in Mind that gs AA applies chill, with that change you are killing the condi build (fun rotation) with a Just brainless 1111111 build.
No thanks, Just change fields and finisher to prioritize your own ones and then make some adjustement if Needed.

the rotation stays the exact same you just swich scepter dagger for a power weapon set. The fact that you came up with this statement makes me wonder if you even know how the class plays in the first place.

A trait that give damage at each chill apllication Will Just promote the more possible chill apllication with the weapon set that can give Also the more possible DPS (aka gs)
So the rotation Will be Just AA on GS with eventually RS 5+4.
No more weapon swap, no more RS AA.
While remove the bleed from chill Will Just kill the condi build.

You don’t Need much knowledge of Necro to understand that. And maybe you should Wonder about YOUR knowledge about the whole game, not Just reaper.

just because the aa has a chill at its end doenst mean that it will still be the best dmg the shroud aa is much faster compaired to the gs aa which is one of the slowest if not the slowest aa chain in game just like now with its current form gs aa is hardly part of the rotation just like that it will still not be a bg part of that rotation

You see? You Just showed, again, you don’t know what are you talking about.
Actually the best DPS rotation for Power reaper is Just Camp GS AA using skill 2+4 off cd. (And Wells) then start to spam GS 2 After 50%.
Using shroud AA is a DPS Loss, same for swap to any other weaponset.
Your suggestion “chill a foe applies damage to that foe” would push camping GS AA even more.
While totally killing the condi build that live thanks by bleeds from chill trait and consequently kill a fun and fresh Dynamic build that involve 2 weaponset swap, AA and 5+4 on RS and the use of the whole utility skill bar.
Again, the best buff necro can get is the fields prioritize, that, as someone more experienced than me already said, is something about 4k dps in real raid scenario.
Sbam, necro become instantly more viable, and very competitive.

zealex.9410:

lucadiro.4519:

zealex.9410:

lucadiro.4519:

Sublimatio.6981:

i disagree, i love current necro build. blood magic is pathetic because it revolves around downed state, which is something nobody should be doing in the first place.

Totaly agree
I played necro back in the past before lichfrom Nerf and to me it was really boring.
Now I reageared up it again, and I falled in love with the new gs soul reapering rotation.

i would change deathly chill to make it so aplying chill aplies dmg and make it scale with power boom power necro is viable as kitten

Taking in Mind that gs AA applies chill, with that change you are killing the condi build (fun rotation) with a Just brainless 1111111 build.
No thanks, Just change fields and finisher to prioritize your own ones and then make some adjustement if Needed.

the rotation stays the exact same you just swich scepter dagger for a power weapon set. The fact that you came up with this statement makes me wonder if you even know how the class plays in the first place.

A trait that give damage at each chill apllication Will Just promote the more possible chill apllication with the weapon set that can give Also the more possible DPS (aka gs)
So the rotation Will be Just AA on GS with eventually RS 5+4.
No more weapon swap, no more RS AA.
While remove the bleed from chill Will Just kill the condi build.

You don’t Need much knowledge of Necro to understand that. And maybe you should Wonder about YOUR knowledge about the whole game, not Just reaper.

zealex.9410:

lucadiro.4519:

Sublimatio.6981:

i disagree, i love current necro build. blood magic is pathetic because it revolves around downed state, which is something nobody should be doing in the first place.

Totaly agree
I played necro back in the past before lichfrom Nerf and to me it was really boring.
Now I reageared up it again, and I falled in love with the new gs soul reapering rotation.

i would change deathly chill to make it so aplying chill aplies dmg and make it scale with power boom power necro is viable as kitten

Taking in Mind that gs AA applies chill, with that change you are killing the condi build (fun rotation) with a Just brainless 1111111 build.
No thanks, Just change fields and finisher to prioritize your own ones and then make some adjustement if Needed.

Sublimatio.6981:

i disagree, i love current necro build. blood magic is pathetic because it revolves around downed state, which is something nobody should be doing in the first place.

Totaly agree
I played necro back in the past before lichfrom Nerf and to me it was really boring.
Now I reageared up it again, and I falled in love with the new gs soul reapering rotation.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Given it’s on a 6 second cooldown, it’s easy to argue that it’s overloaded already. 600 range dash, AoE Blind, decent damage, and projectile blocking.

At most, all I would change is that you don’t stop moving on the very first hit on your target, instead continuing to move if they are no longer getting hit.

Use without target and you will not stop at the First hit

You said your point is thief don’t deserve ele numbers since they Just autoattack.
While you can’t see ele (even rangers) is far superior not only for the DPS Number, that can be more or less comparable, but for what they can actually do in a real raid scenario.
There are lot of raid Groups that run 3-4 Tempest or 3-4 cranger… While run 3-4 thieves is Just stupid.

I mean, thieves are for sure a good entry level DPS class but they are far to be optimal in mostly encounters

Feanor.2358:

First and foremost, we were discussing survivability. Check the link in my last post to see a thief clearing shards on Xera easily.

Aside from that, yes, range and cleave are nice to have, though their absence hardly warrants doing the same dps by only pressing “1”.

Do you realize that for cleans orbs at xera it have to stop DPS xera? Meaning in a DPS Loss overall? And he porbably Will Also lack gotl and maybe quickness when it come back?
And cleave is not only nice to have, but in some encounters it can means that secondary mobs die slower, doing more damage at the whole group, meaning again, an overoall DPS Lost.

Feanor.2358:

.
Theif is melee, true, but so is the ele, really. First of all, you don’t want to leave the group or you lose wells, heals and buffs in general. Second, to get the most out of your Wildfire you need to be in melee range. So while you technically can move further away, you never really do. I’d call this a tie, too.

The fact ele, and ranger, have some range means that in some encounter you can stay in melee group while doing specific e task
I mean if a thief go in greens in VG means is doing cose to 0 DPS. Also:
Thief can’t clear orbs at gorseval
Thief can’t cleave mobs at slothasor
Thief can’t clear orbs at xera nor go on plat (without stop DPS)
Thief can’t damage staute (without stop DPS MO)
Some range is helpfull at Deimos, so is have cleave.
Thief have poor cleave so it is Also not very good at trio and escort

So have a range option, and good cleave, is helpfull 8/13 encounters.
Go 2 chronos 2 cps 2 druid 4 thieves in ANY encounter is Just brainless stupid, but still have One is a good source of solid DPS, and this is a good thing that the game promote some diversity.

Also Tempest that do 12k DPS at gorseval are not average, are bad, and I’m sure the same person would do terrible DPS even on other classes

Feanor.2358:

Trust me, if you can do 30k on Gorse you’re nothing like average.

Obviusly I was talking about First phase only, After that it always drop a bit to me (even 5k lower sometimes)
But I’m pretty sure a lot of people can do it, Just usually people do slow cc, while you Need to breackbar instantly.

Feanor.2358:

Crinn.7864:

With the exception of thief, the mechanical complexity of tempest is hardly any different than any of the other classes that are competitive with tempest.

Really? Other classes have to rely on abusing mechanics like double-hitting Wildfire and maximizing Phoenix hits? Condi rangers aren’t simple, huh? No targeting quirks, you don’t lose 10% damage every time something hits you or you stop moving. And why would a thief get downed more with the same base hp and higher armor values?

Condi ranger as already said, are Simply the easier class and most effective to play, and as I already said, They can maybe have some soft Nerf. ( Just don’t make racial skill usable in raid would be probably enough but i don’t really know how much DPS does take root provide since my cranger is human)
Thieves in other hands, have no range at all and have poor cleave, 2 things that already make them less desiderable in most of raids encounter, since out of sabetha cannon they can’t do specific task as Tempest and cranger can, also they don’t have any kind of group utility. If you Nerf them your are Just deleting them from raids.
About engie, if you think they deserve a Nerf you should really try one, not on golem but in a raid scenario.
DH I think is in a good spot, no Need to Nerf nor buff.
Revenant lack disperatly some damage buff to bè in pair, at least, of DH.
Reaper Also Need some love, something like make their combo finisher prioritize their fields can already help them a lot (I’m playing One myself these days and 90% of the time your fields get covered)
These are my tought.

So I would really love to know what you think Arenanet should do…. They should Nerf what? Or should they Just buff Tempest? Or make it easier to play?

Savach.7219:

lucadiro. If you believe that doing DPS in raids yourself is strongly mistaken. A quarter of the players are working on your buffs, and you have a dps with their work.. You cling to the raid in all comments forgetting about everything else. But if you want then remove the druid from the raid and see who will die last to have an idea of what I wrote earlier. I think all your damage will not be comparable to your immediate loss =)

Maybe, Just maybe, I have some knowledge of how raids work and with bad pugs I can not even touch 25k(sometime can’t get even 20k depends of the squad)… But still all’ the squad DPS is lower.
And still you have a druid in your squad every time so your post is pointless

Savach.7219:

I do not understand what you can discuss with a person who believes that a necromancer needs a damage buff o_0. Do you talk about it based on your experience or on a digital DPS meter?
I raised the issue not to dispute the assessment of the elementalist on a particular boss or the SPVP.
Quote from the chat with the question of the newcomer and the answer of the old-timers:
-Why in fact often gather a group of 1 druid and 4 necromancers?
-Because they can pass it as quickly as the Elementalists with the Messmer. But drinking tea on the way..
If you are seriously discussing the advantages of tempest in raids, then probably you do not go to them there at all. Or relying on the DPS-meter, you have no idea what exactly an elementalist does in your group to get these numbers .
Come back here when you know about the subject of discussion -_-

4 necro 1 Rangers is not a things because DPS, is Just Easy, and you litteraly can do something else in the while.
So why there arent 8 necros 2 druid raids? If they should provide more DPS everyone would run it.
Necro DPS is the second lowest DPS in the game, only superior at revenant dps.
Pulling out a DPS of 30k on necros in a raid boss require coordinated epidemic cast with another necro + steal icebow from tempests and perfect buffs and rotation.
With Tempest you can reach 30k DPS even without be a Qt member. I can pull 30k DPS with Tempest on gorseval, even more in VG, 28k on sabetha, same fo other my Friends that are, again, not doing low man kill or speedclears. So we are average players.

In the end if you get outdpsed from every necros you are Just a bad ele, I’m Sorry but you should face the Truth.

P.s: Just bè honest, are you a troll right?

@ Feanor:
I really don’t want to argue again in every single boss, since I THINK that tempest is very viable if not the best class to pick in 9/11 encounters while YOU THINK it is not.
Probably you can’t get good number with Tempest, same for the people you play with, then you think 95% of raiders that use Tempest sucks. But this is you opinion and you don’t have any proof of it.
But it’s ok I don’t want everyone think the same as me so take your opinion, I don’t care.

Just, please, pick you Tempest, go in the lfg and try to join as Tempest DPS in every encounter that is not cairn, Deimos or MO and then come back to tell us how much times you get kicked because you are on Tempest or how much time people Ask you to reroll.

Then do the same with necro or revenant

Lemmi clear my point for everyone here, since no one seems to understand.

TALKING ABOUT PVE I really think, and Pretty sure most of the people that do raids and fractals agree with me, that tempest doesn’t Need any damage buff.
I really think the balance we have in PVE is One of the best since a lot of classes can bè, and are, took as fill the DPS spots.
Does condi ranger Need a very small Nerf since it is Easy to play a way less squishy than other classes? Yes I think a small Nerf can bè done.
Does classes like DH, thieves engie Need Nerf in damage?
No i don’t think they Need any Nerf.

Again the only classes that Need damage buff (in PvE) are necro and revenant

Savach.7219:

Well, how does the discussion work? Give engineers more DPS because I play them?
Against the arguments you have very shaky statements..

You see? you guys can’t even read.
I was talking about Tempest in PvE and that guy quote me to say CORE ELE is not fine in pvp/wvw… What have that to do with what I’m saying?

And btw Yes I play engie, as I play EVERY class in this game, while my main is still ele.
I don’t think engie Need more damage, nor more damage Need tempest, PVE talking.
Maybe condi ranger can have a very soft Nerf, very soft.

The only classes that Need more damage are revenant and necro (in PvE)

Savach.7219:

lucadiro, You really do not understand the relationship between risk and benefit, because it’s hard to discuss with you. Viability in terms of DPS and simply viable should be inversely proportional to this and this is balance.
A good engineer has a survival rate higher than an elementalist. And that’s the proof of 4 years of observations and campaigns in different groups, if you shield otherwise, maybe you do not know the engineer or game content very well, because to learn the rotation is not to learn the character yet.
How often do you change the build? I every time, depending on the group, and sometimes a couple of times during the hike depending on the situation.
But how much do you have dps if you for some reason (for example, someone is rez) you do not beat the enemy? And you knew that in the same situation, the elementalist dps is 0?Why does the condy cause damage even after the impact? This is such a mechanics you will say. But why with such an advantage (hit and do what you want) do you want a sapostovimy DPS with direct damage where you need to work out the goal until her death? I repeat: did you hear about the nickname of the elementalist “glass cannon”? Can you tell why it was given and for what? And remembering the same time you were not accidentally of those engineers who passed the maximum level of the fractal (50) solo, selling seats?

Sorry, hmmm, I did not understood part of your post.
Anyway Glass cannon in MMO game (think it’s mostly used on pvp tbh) is litteraly take ANY CLASS and take only the skills, traits, and Gear that maximize the damage output without use any difensive things.
Now every DPS build, in any class, in the PVE metà is basically a glasscannon build, is that condi or is that raw damage.
Soooo, hmmm I don’t get the point?

Btw ress One time, even 2 time, in an encounter has not a significative impact on your final DPS (maybe try to not interrupt an overload to ress, if you are already casting it wait One second to ress chance nothing)
Obviusly if you are ressing people alone all the time Yes, your DPS would be kittenty, but I’m Pretty sure your while party DPS is kittenty in this case.

Btw I don’t think engie has anyway more survability (in PvE) of Tempest if we talk about the metà build.
If you start to talk about change skills (I did not understood this part?) Tempest Can have even more.

That said, again, I sincerely don’t get what are you saying and the point of your post…
Do you think Tempest is not viable or desiderable in PvE?

apharma.3741:

“1 if you do low DPS in golem in a raid scenario you do even more DPS”

For your sake I hope this was either a typo or some kind of troll. He will not do more DPS in a real raid setting for 2 reasons. Firstly he won’t have as many buffs and other damage mods as he was testing with all buffs which include assassins presence, glyph of empowerment and depending on stones extra toughness feeding into power. Secondly if he cannot manage a rotation when he has no mechanics to deal with then he’s going to perform poorly when he has mechanics to deal with interrupting what is a heavily rotation based class.

No that was a writing mistake. I letteraly wanted to write:
“If you do low dps on golem you do even LESS in raid scenario” meaning that better you learn your rotation on golem, better you do in a real boss scenario.

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Oh boy..

VG: if you distort Green or not, Tempest is still is better than any condi ranger since VG has no toughness. IF someone for idk wich reason is using rebound Can prevent a full wipe if a Green fail.
Gorseval: if you do insta cc both staff and scepter, even dagger, Win any DPS competition, if you do slow cc, then condi ranger Win, but then it’s not a problem of the class.
But even if you do slow cc Tempest can prevent a full wipe thanks rebound. Is Also the class that lose less DPS at doing orbs.
Sabetha: have a Blink Just make safer doing cannons, maybe here condi ranger Can outdps you, but still Tempest is a safe, and good, choise at doing cannons thanks by teleport (Can avoid flamewall)
Slothasor: you Can outdps any condi class both in target and cleave. Gale Song is a strong utility here.
Trio: noting to Say.
Matthias: here Tempest is not very good, condi Mesmer and condi ranger wins.
Escort: nothing to. say
Keep construct: do I really have to Say something?
Xera: rebound in buttons, good for clearing orbs and adds while dpsing sabetha.
Cairn: very mediocre here, still with revenant the best kiter so far.
Mursat overseer: at the same level of trio or escort, not going to talk about it.
Samarog: Tempest Win DPS so far, Gale Song Can Also help here.
Deimos: while I don’t have much exp, killed it only One time, seems condi ranger are better here.. still with revenant the best hands kiter.

Sooooo if we left trio and escort, and lets Say mursat overseer is a “raid boss”, Tempest is Viable and One of the best (if not the best) DPS spec on 7/11 bosses.
While is Just the best DPS class so far in fractals.

Now you answers me… Be very viable, if not the best dps class, in 7/11 raid boss is not enough for you?
And be honest, are you sure you Just don’t want to go back in the old 4Tempest metà because you are a crybaby and you don’t want competition vs other classes?
Is far for you that Tempest was the only viable DPS class back in those days?
Isn’t a good, health, and fair thing that Also other classes have a spot in raids?
What do you think about the fact that Revenant, necro, and sometime Also DH and thieves, are not allowed in any “real” raid bosses?
Is that fair?

Still a very small part of the game… and core ele is the problem here tempest aol is not.

Again!?? Again??? I can’t belive this…. Can you stop qoute me? You Just can’t read and can’t understand how a discussion work.
Feanor Ask me about Raid encounter in the specific and this is my answers.
Then said that fractals + dungeon + raids are a small parte of the game make me laugh.
But again if you want to talk about pvp/wvw Just qoute someone else BECAUSE I’M NOT F….G TALKING ABOUT IT

vesica tempestas.1563:

Raiding is a small fraction of gw2 and no dps rotations is not what pve is all about (rotations!) a lot of the most interesting pve play is reactive not prescriptive, ie not trying to cast 1 then 2 then 5 then 2 then 4 then 2 then 1 then 2 then 5 etc etc etc. Do you think having rotations rote bound into your muscle memory is interesting dynamic gameplay?

Yes, since perform a good rotation in an actually real encounter (raids, fractals, dungeon) is a reactive thing that Also involve muscles Memory, and is very challenging (aka fun) to adapt it.

And btw have a good muscles Memory is very important also in pvp/wvw even if there you don’t use any DPS rotation.
Some things, like Dodge, use blocks, evades, breack stuns for any good player are Just became passive, since they do it in an automatic way.
When you have to think at what to, you are slow and you get outplayed.
That’s it’s true in video games in the same way it’s true in real Life sports.

Pretty sure in video 2 he cast epidemic on the golem near you.
For the First video, I think it is Also epidemic, I Just don’t see on Who he casted it.

I Just finished to Gear up my viper necro for raids. I still don’t get very good numbers but I have to practice more the rotation.
But Just a question, during the rotation, to maximize the dps, when is the right moment to “steal” the icebow to eles?

I Also pugged most of my LI here some advice:

1- if you don’t have an ascended set, Just buy a full magi exotic ecquipment for your druid.
In most encounter magi druid is Just the easier class to play, you don’t have to care about nothing if not heal teammates and place spirits.

2 Then as people said before start with easier encounter. Watch videos in YouTube about the encounter you have to do, with possibly the PoV of your class. Also read guides if possible, so you can know things that maybe you don’t see in the video.

3 Try to always to be in the same pixel of where other people are.

4- Just don’t lie about your LI or your experience… If people Ask you to ping don’t use fake codes, Just be honest. People tend to kick liers and are more incline ti accept someone that is honest

5- Once you get a decent experience on some encounter and you are confident with them, buy a tag a make your own groups. People usually never Ask for the Commander to ping Kp or LI. But again, do it if you are confident with the encounter, basically because is not a nice thing make other people carry you while them expect you to bè good, and aslo because if people spot you are inexperienced they Will leave the group or kick you next time they see you.

vesica tempestas.1563:

FullMetalToast.4918:

Hi guys! I’m creating this post because I leveled an elementalist to lvl 80 and geared her but I have some questions about my damage, because I feel that I don’t deal any.

I’m using Berserker’s exotic gear wirh ascended trinkets, scholar runes and sigil of force/air. My favourite weapon loadout is D/Wh and I learned qt’s build rotation. So I went to the training golem with Seaweed Salad and Toxic Sharpening Tool but I don’t know if my results are normal, I get ~7’5k DPS without buffs and ~25k DPS with all buffs. Are those great numbers?
I’ve done some fractals and it seems that I don’t do anything, I can die and the boss dies as fast as if I was dealing damage. I feel like I make no difference, and that makes me question about continuing playing ele because I may be bad at it

I know I should practise a lot more, and I really love D/Wh rotation, so, am I doing something wrong?

the problem is your are worrying too much about damage meters, outside of raids it dps just doesn’t matter, what matters is that you enjoy playing the style in that you play. Also if you were to wvw/spvp you would be slaughtered each and every time if you tried to do ‘rotations’. Man i hate the influence raids has on this game.

Wich influence? Try to improved ourself is a bad thing since when? If he doesn’t like to be a dead weight he is right to try to learn better his rotation… Is a good thing and every player that care about PVE should do, not only in raid but even fractals and dungeon.
Then I totaly agree 200% that since it is a game he should play the class he like and the build he like.
But why blame raids if poeple like to improve their rotations.

Both the things I think.

Oh boy..

VG: if you distort Green or not, Tempest is still is better than any condi ranger since VG has no toughness. IF someone for idk wich reason is using rebound Can prevent a full wipe if a Green fail.
Gorseval: if you do insta cc both staff and scepter, even dagger, Win any DPS competition, if you do slow cc, then condi ranger Win, but then it’s not a problem of the class.
But even if you do slow cc Tempest can prevent a full wipe thanks rebound. Is Also the class that lose less DPS at doing orbs.
Sabetha: have a Blink Just make safer doing cannons, maybe here condi ranger Can outdps you, but still Tempest is a safe, and good, choise at doing cannons thanks by teleport (Can avoid flamewall)
Slothasor: you Can outdps any condi class both in target and cleave. Gale Song is a strong utility here.
Trio: noting to Say.
Matthias: here Tempest is not very good, condi Mesmer and condi ranger wins.
Escort: nothing to. say
Keep construct: do I really have to Say something?
Xera: rebound in buttons, good for clearing orbs and adds while dpsing sabetha.
Cairn: very mediocre here, still with revenant the best kiter so far.
Mursat overseer: at the same level of trio or escort, not going to talk about it.
Samarog: Tempest Win DPS so far, Gale Song Can Also help here.
Deimos: while I don’t have much exp, killed it only One time, seems condi ranger are better here.. still with revenant the best hands kiter.

Sooooo if we left trio and escort, and lets Say mursat overseer is a “raid boss”, Tempest is Viable and One of the best (if not the best) DPS spec on 7/11 bosses.
While is Just the best DPS class so far in fractals.

Now you answers me… Be very viable, if not the best dps class, in 7/11 raid boss is not enough for you?
And be honest, are you sure you Just don’t want to go back in the old 4Tempest metà because you are a crybaby and you don’t want competition vs other classes?
Is far for you that Tempest was the only viable DPS class back in those days?
Isn’t a good, health, and fair thing that Also other classes have a spot in raids?
What do you think about the fact that Revenant, necro, and sometime Also DH and thieves, are not allowed in any “real” raid bosses?
Is that fair?

Feanor.2358:

And how is your “have no real basis” any different than “isn’t viable”? Both are just subjective assessments. Both aren’t strictly true in that they are both too extreme.

Tempest is still viable, meaning you can still beat all the content with it and produce more or less competitive dps. That’s a fact.

However, in terms of risk/reward, picking a Tempest now is much harder to justify and many groups have recognized that and shifted toward condi rangers (including fractal groups, but that’s just mindless bandwagon-ing). This, also, is a fact.

Does it seem fair for this to outperform this , if only by a hair’s breadth? Forget the group utilities and survivability, just look at the execution. A problem exists and rejecting it on the basis that Tempest is “viable” is exactly the same clown fiesta type of discussion you’re complaining about.

I’m starting to cry now really…. How Can be people so hard to understand.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FACT TEMPEST IS STILL A VERY VIABLE AND ONE OF THE BEST DPS CLASS IN PVE.

Is it right or is it not right?

Then, I Just pointed out that, you and another guy are saying have an harder rotation should you reward with an higher dps.
While I Can partially agree, because Tempest Can still do some task other classes can’t do or do worst than a Tempest, you have to admit that, for your Logic, Tempest DPS in large hitboxes should bè nerfed to stay under engie DPS, since it is universal accepted, engie had by far the hardest DPS rotation.

Now you all Can go on to cry about Tempest is not anymore top DPS in every encounter…. I don’t care about it really, do what you want.
But no one can Say Tempest is not viable in pve because it is Just a ridicolous lie, and there isn’t any basis that Can prove it.

Man, there was a guy saying Tempest is unviable in pve. I replied to him saying how this is not true putting in argoments, instead of Just “no It is viable” then YOU ALL start to quote my argoments outside of the discussion ti talk about things I was not refering to.
It’s like you Say “dogs run”, then I qoute you saying “that’s not true birds doenst run, they fly”.
Make discussion with people like this is impossible and Just wasted time.

You all seems think Tempest is an underpower DPS spec IN PVE and you are all acting like no one want Tempest in his group, 2 things that thanks god have no real basis and are not true at all, since Tempest, with cranger, are the 2 most required DPS class in raids, and tempest is Simply the best class so far for DPS in fractals.

So again, I’m out from this clown fiesta discussion, have fun with It.

Ok guys you won. This the situation of PVE Tempest:
No One ask for Tempest anymore, and if we try to join a group we get kicked everytime
If people allow us to play Tempest, it is so squishy that we insta die once the encounter start.
If for some reason we dont insta die we provide so poor dps that even ministrell Chrono outdps us, probably because you have to be beethoven to get about 60% of the full Tempest potential.
And obviusly people that get good numbers are using cheats….

How could I have so blind to don’t see this?

Ok I’m out from this clown fiesta, have a nice day.

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Omfg….. What they have more is only hp and armor… If you talk about fractals and raid have stab, stealth or REVEAL (lol) is totaly useless.
Instead ele can have blocks, a Blink, AoE blinds, passive AOE stunbreack, good AoE heals, the best AoE damage in game etc etc etc…

BUT THE POINT isn’t Who have this or Who have that….
Just want to make you know that if for you guys AN HARDER ROTATION should reward with an higher dps, then engie should deserve more DPS than ele

When did I mention anything about raids or fractals? If you’re going to compare balance that affects all game modes then you have to consider more than just fractals and raids. Switching kits with no cooldown isn’t more difficult than switching attunements that have cd. Having a higher hp and armor is a big advantage in any game mode. Risk vs reward no an engi should not have more dps than ele

Oh god this forum is gettin ridicolous…..
Again I was talking with a guy about PVE things…. Do I have to specific It in every post I make or can you Just read better and stop quote me about how sad is your Life while you play pvp?

Hp and armor are advantages in pve. I have no trouble reading perhaps you should try not comparing two classes when the only thing they have in common is a higher rotation? If you don’t want your comments remarked upon you could always consider not posting in an open forum.

Ok then if we talk about PVE, even if engie has a bit more armor and hp their survability is Pretty comparable.
I have to remember you that metà condi engie has not any stun breack nor stab nor evades.
Ele get for free a stunbreack + stab + protection with overloads.
It has One powerfull evade in staff Fire 4 that is also a crazy mobility tool and help in a lot of situation with out lose dps (hello sloth’s poison, gorseval Smash, samarog spear Attack, Just to list some)
can have more selfsusistain running a GM trait in Tempest that doesn’t impact in your DPS.
Also, if running rebound, you can prevent a full wipe.

Also we also have to take in Mind that since we have dedicated healers, if you die with ANY CLASS is Just because you fail at mechanics or not dodging crucial attacks, not because you are squishy.
But do mechanics and Dodge crucial skill is way harder to do while you have also to do an harder DPS rotation.

And I’m not complain about poeple remark my comment. I complain if I talk about One thing and 2 poeple quote me TO TALK ABOUT TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS that has nothing about what I was talking about.
Because Yes, pvp and pve are 2 different things even if they are about the same game.

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Omfg….. What they have more is only hp and armor… If you talk about fractals and raid have stab, stealth or REVEAL (lol) is totaly useless.
Instead ele can have blocks, a Blink, AoE blinds, passive AOE stunbreack, good AoE heals, the best AoE damage in game etc etc etc…

BUT THE POINT isn’t Who have this or Who have that….
Just want to make you know that if for you guys AN HARDER ROTATION should reward with an higher dps, then engie should deserve more DPS than ele

When did I mention anything about raids or fractals? If you’re going to compare balance that affects all game modes then you have to consider more than just fractals and raids. Switching kits with no cooldown isn’t more difficult than switching attunements that have cd. Having a higher hp and armor is a big advantage in any game mode. Risk vs reward no an engi should not have more dps than ele

Oh god this forum is gettin ridicolous…..
Again I was talking with a guy about PVE things…. Do I have to specific It in every post I make or can you Just read better and stop quote me about how sad is your Life while you play pvp?

Keadron.9570:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

If you’re going to compare ele to engi don’t forget to factor in their extra health, armor, stealth, reveal, stability, etc. Sure their rotation is also complex but they aren’t near as squishy. So does engi deserve more dps than ele no.

Omfg….. What they have more is only hp and armor… If you talk about fractals and raid have stab, stealth or REVEAL (lol) is totaly useless.
Instead ele can have blocks, a Blink, AoE blinds, passive AOE stunbreack, good AoE heals, the best AoE damage in game etc etc etc…

BUT THE POINT isn’t Who have this or Who have that….
Just want to make you know that if for you guys AN HARDER ROTATION should reward with an higher dps, then engie should deserve more DPS than ele

soulknight.9620:

If by “worth” you mean being top tier and doing fine in Spvp and raiding then NO its not worth it. Other things can be done by almost any class.

How is not worth? Tempest is mandatory in every pvp team, and It still is One of the best DPS classes in pve. Are you playing a different game than me?

If you like support your teammates (with heals, protection and cleans) while providing about 0 DPS then Tempest is the class to go for in pvp.

While in pve is One of the best DPS class

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

Sorry for my english but..
I write here as the support has advised, but I do not believe in that that that that to change
I no longer understand the meaning of the word balance in GW2:
I’m curious about what it was to do an elementalist so useless for the group, once the glass cannon remained glassy but ..
In comparison with other classes it is practically useless:
Fractals are much easier to pass by necromancers, in which DPS is higher than in Elementalist in 9 out of 10 cases
2 guardians destroy mobs in dungeons faster than the elementalist has time to do anything
As a buffer it is better to take a druid or PS warrior and messmer
and all these classes are more tenacious.
So why did remove the class from the game for experienced players who were able to realize their potential dd to the fullest with crystal compatibility?

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Only true for 1/3 (maybe less due to raids only being part of pve) of the game and even that not the best class for pve raids but for most of the game ele is a weak dps class (spvp wvw and open pve).

Don’t quote me If you can’t read at Who I’m refering.
He was clearing talking about PVE where ele is One of the best class (even in raid Yes) and thanks god THERE IS NOT A BEST CLASS anymore in raid, since what is best or what is not depends totaly from the encounter we are talking about, for example Tempest is the best classes in KC while is terribile at Matthias.

About PVP I ALWAYS SAID ele is not fine.

Still very important to talk about the game over all if your going to just talk about a very small part of the game and act as if ele is ok as is over all your missing ALOT of the game.
Ele is good in some raids not all as dps but its bad in every thing else as dps spvp wvw open world events. This game is not just raids in fact nothing about this game is build for raids they where simply added in after many years of not having them and classes where more balanced for open world and spvp. If any thing raids have caused more problems them good when it comes to balancing in that often open world pve and wvw are getting effected by raids something that can be self contestant balanced but its not and often its killing types of builds in other moods of gw2.

So i will quote you if your going to act like ele is ok because its able to dps a bit better then other classes in a very small and limited part of the game because your not using a real point of view for gw2 over all and it needs to be pointed out.

Lol are you for real???
I was talking with the other guys about PVE thing and you come here to Say me “I said ele is fine in pvp/wvw”.
So please Just stop It.

p.s.: Just check my post’s history so you can read every post I made talking about how DPS ele is not fine in pvp

Savach.7219:

Here is the discussion of situations and particulars…
As I understood the nerf was due to the presence of large bosses in the raids. In dungeons and fractals, there are fewer than few )
We estimate the hit of a meteor that was “corrected” by this patch on a small hitbox, divided by 2 from behind the cd, comparable to the time of caste meteorite rain in a standing position in battle with 11k life, and laugh if the mob came out from aoe.
For 4 years from the elementalist half remained, despite the addition of a new specialization -_-

I see a lot of elementalists in fractals… And dungeon is something arenanet doesn’t care anymore.
But even in dungeon and fractals, if we talk about Speed clearing, Tempest is still One of the best, if not the best,, class, for sure better than any condi classes, since burst damage there is everything.
If we don’t talk about speedclear then what are we talking about? Everything is viable in dungeon and fractals.
For example 4 necro 1 druids fractals is something people run, not because It is better or faster, is Just a brainless Easy way to do them.

About meteorshower you have tons of tools for cast It in a safe way both in dungeon and fractals where all’ the people can, and should, stack and AOE blinds can prevent you to take any damage.
If you die everytime you cast is a L2P issue.

Savach.7219:

lucadiro.4519:

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Removed not literally, but
Probably you play recently, if you do not see the difference.
Dps is close but more often smaller than the rest, while the Elementalist will still play on the “piano” polka, the necromancer languidly pressing a pair of buttons will cause more damage O_o it is a fact
I play elementalist ele-out of habit, in DPS I overtake only the lazy and novice

Gear up an condi engie and try his rotation.
That is a “piano” rotation, and now tell me If It doesn’t deserve better dps numbers of ele.
You have to Press more skills, remember more cooldowns and It is all more Dynamic and fast than every ele rotation but still a good engie can’t outdps a good ele in big hitboxes

Jski.6180:

lucadiro.4519:

Savach.7219:

Sorry for my english but..
I write here as the support has advised, but I do not believe in that that that that to change
I no longer understand the meaning of the word balance in GW2:
I’m curious about what it was to do an elementalist so useless for the group, once the glass cannon remained glassy but ..
In comparison with other classes it is practically useless:
Fractals are much easier to pass by necromancers, in which DPS is higher than in Elementalist in 9 out of 10 cases
2 guardians destroy mobs in dungeons faster than the elementalist has time to do anything
As a buffer it is better to take a druid or PS warrior and messmer
and all these classes are more tenacious.
So why did remove the class from the game for experienced players who were able to realize their potential dd to the fullest with crystal compatibility?

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

Only true for 1/3 (maybe less due to raids only being part of pve) of the game and even that not the best class for pve raids but for most of the game ele is a weak dps class (spvp wvw and open pve).

Don’t quote me If you can’t read at Who I’m refering.
He was clearing talking about PVE where ele is One of the best class (even in raid Yes) and thanks god THERE IS NOT A BEST CLASS anymore in raid, since what is best or what is not depends totaly from the encounter we are talking about, for example Tempest is the best classes in KC while is terribile at Matthias.

About PVP I ALWAYS SAID ele is not fine.

Savach.7219:

I play as an elementalist from the release, on a golem 48k I do it like that .. from a friend of a necromancer with whom we often go for instance dps 2-3k higher, while he does not need to stand close to the goal and the presence of shuraud survival is an order of magnitude higher (this is for example). Guards give out 58k dps traps in dungeons, after 2-3 seconds to beat already no one . that can be made an elementalist during this time? Is it necessary to talk about the survivability of the guard at the same time?
About the raid .. I was the only elementalist in static (until it came out) and at the same time I was often asked to change the character to the same druid. Statics passes 13 bosses (among other things)
Top DPS elementalist maximum on the golem .. and then controversially. And the efficiency completely ridiculous.
Play with equipared people who have other classes with the included DPSM, and learn the difference of potentials -_-

Man I play every class in raids with a DPS meter, and in the First 3 Wing where I have lot of experience It’s really rare that I get outdps’ed if I play ele.
Even if I have to do specific task (like Green on VG, cannons in sabetha etc etc) I can do comparable dps of Who Just stay melee.
And I both raid with a team and pugs.
In Matthias condi classes are Just better to go yes, but for the rest elementalist is One of the best dps class.
In Wing 4 I have less exp so even if I killed each bosses I don’t do good numbers, but I still have to learn better mechanics.
So you see, FOR MY EXPERIENCE ele is fine.
I never got kicked, I have no difficult to find groups, and I always do well with It. As a lot of other eles.

Savach.7219:

Sorry for my english but..
I write here as the support has advised, but I do not believe in that that that that to change
I no longer understand the meaning of the word balance in GW2:
I’m curious about what it was to do an elementalist so useless for the group, once the glass cannon remained glassy but ..
In comparison with other classes it is practically useless:
Fractals are much easier to pass by necromancers, in which DPS is higher than in Elementalist in 9 out of 10 cases
2 guardians destroy mobs in dungeons faster than the elementalist has time to do anything
As a buffer it is better to take a druid or PS warrior and messmer
and all these classes are more tenacious.
So why did remove the class from the game for experienced players who were able to realize their potential dd to the fullest with crystal compatibility?

They didnt remove the class from the game lol… It still is One of the best class to the DPS role.
And “experienced players that can realize their potential” are mostly still playing ele.

pspshadowman.2701:

25k with ALL buffs is actually kind of low. Something to remember is being max range to get the most out of Air 5, lining Fire 5 up correctly on large hitbox to get the double ticks, rotate your camera to the top to minimize Fire 3 distance so you can swap back to Air auto attack and still be in range and lastly maximize when your using/picking up conjured weapons and how they fit in your rotation.

Also don’t take qT benchmarks so serious. They cherry pick their videos through various amounts of RNG, so don’t assume you need to hit their numbers. Also your in exotics and ascended weapons add a sizeable chunk of damage over exotic.

Lastly tempest is a very squishy class in raids and d/wh tends to put you into bad situations to maximize dps. You need to learn the mechanics of the fight more which will allow you to know what you can and can’t get away with as far as maxing dps.

1 if you do low DPS in golem in a raid scenario you do even more DPS, so try to learn better the rotation is a good thing, since higher your dps is in golem higher It Will be on a raid boss/fractals.

2 the fact that d/Wh is a melee weapon set change nothing in the end, since you should stay melee with every weaponset to get heals and buffs.
Stay ranged with staff or scepter is One of the best way to die (cuz no heals from druid, nor distortion from chronos) or to do a poor dps since you are going to miss every buffs

https://youtu.be/Ab5CdXkALoo
Here the rotation (with not all’ buff) , is not hard so look the video and try to copy what the guy does.
Even if you are on exotic Gear your number Can be improved!

Lol think at me that I’m also colorblind! I have to zoom in at maximum to spot them.

Feanor.2358:

The fact remains that only recently I started having trouble finding a group to do daily fractals. 4N1D has existed since before, but before it was fast and easy to assemble a proper group. Now it isn’t. At the very least, it proves a problem now exist which didn’t before.

I also doubt very much that the people who did 10k on staff pre-patch would ever hit 28k on Sc/W.

Again that’s not a fact is your experience and opinion.
I don’t have problem to find a Group/people for fractals.

And the First time I used a DPS meter I was so depressed about my DPS.
That was before the Nerf. Then I took some of my time to learn better ele’s rotation and train them and I improved a lot.
And I’m not a very good player… I Just only put some effort to train myself.

That’s what I’m trying to say at everybody. If you care about doing a good DPS you can’t Jump on S/Wh and think to do top DPS.

A 10k DPS ele player has never learned nor tried the rotation at the golem.
But still there are people that doesn’t have so many time to play, so for them it’s a good thing that there are some easier DPS classes to play.
But even a condi ranger that never trained his rotation, is not able to get more than 10k dps.

Feanor.2358:

lucadiro.4519:

Feanor.2358:

Because who wouldn’t want 4 eles doing 10k dps each in their raid, right?

There must be an incentive to use a harder/more complex build. Otherwise people will always go for the easy one, because it gives consistent results. Meaning, no, you don’t have 3 builds to choose from, you have one. Of course, you can always be a special snowflake like me and insist on playing scepter, but it doesn’t change the big picture.

But go ahead, praise a balance which defies basic game design logic.

First of all if you do 10k DPS in your ele you should think about what are you doing, because even if you never tried ele rotation you Just can’t do such poor DPS.

And I still Can see tons of elementalist playing in raid, (and doing well) but finally also other classes are viable and wellcome.

And Yes I also play scepter warhorn, but i don’t cry because OMG I HAD A SUCH DIFFICULT ROTaTION I SHOULD DO 50k!1!1

First of all, I’m not the only ele out there. The average ele, back on the 4 ele meta, was simply terrible. We just had no means to tell that. Now, however, we do. So the meta was going to die anyway and the terrible eles would shift to easier and more reliable dps options. Like they did.

The point is, if the complex rotations had a larger advantage in potential output, we’d see players trying to master these. Now we’re seeing players flocking to condi rangers, thieves and mostly d/w eles. ‘Cause, you know, it’s easy. And there’s no real point in doing much more for the same deeps.

You might think it’s not a problem, but it actually is. Fractal LFG is full of looking for condis. Sure, that’s just because of dumb people, but “why” hardly matters for me, does it? I gave up on doing fractals last night after 15 mins in LFG and not being able to assemble a proper group. So yeah, great balance and great diversity.

That’s your opinion, and doesn’t mean it’s true.
A lot of ele would have rerolled anyway with DPS meter realeased yes, BUT mostly of them would have tried to improve, like me, you and a lot of other people have done.
FTW players would exist anyway.

If you push up maximum potential also basic potential raise up…. Meaning, for example, that if you buff S/Wh max potential to 35k (on smallhitboxes) to be over condi ranger, even average player that Can do 80% of the potential Can reach 28k…
So what? S/Wh Will become another Easy build to play, because you know you don’t Need 100% potential to gets boss kills, so anyway there wouldn’t be an incentive ti master it.

Again I see in lfg a lot of player asking for “DPS class” and that’s a very good thing because finally lot of classes are viable at DPS role. But still I see lot of eles everywhere and a lot of them do well pushing out good DPS. Yes there are a lot of terribile ones, but there are also a lot of condi ranger or thieves do terribile.
Then everyone know that fractals lfg are a clown fiesta and there are still tons of people running 4necro1druid so please don’t use it to prove anything

Malchior.5732:

lucadiro.4519:

Lol on large hitboxes is way more Easy both to Land Phoenix and wildfire.

The problem was never with landing Phoenix and Wildfire. It’s that you lose a lot of damage by not placing them pixel perfect to maximize hits.
Phoenix can drop from 13 hits all the way to 9 or worse while Wildfire needs to hit twice to do top DPS. Both are not necessarily realistic to pull off consistently in raids.

Again… You don’t Need 12hit phoenix to get 30+k DPS.
And on large hitboxes both Phoenix and wildifre positioning is way easier.
What make people lose DPS is slow down their rotation, mostly because they try perfect positioning on skills.