Guild Wars 2

Saunby.5306:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Saunby.5306:

Hello fellow Ele’s, what classes would you say you feel you struggle against more in pvp? I think mine is probably thief and decent necro players!

What build do you play? Just ele isn’t telling much.

I play s/f Meta’s Fresh Air Dps with some of my own moderations and tweaks

Do you run A/E/Ar or A/W/Ar? Because if you run earth and you are Having problems with necro you can swap it for water for more cleans… and honestly I find run water far superior even vs thieves

AliamRationem.5172:

I find power warriors to be the most dangerous. Checking the combat log and seeing arc divider crits for 8-12k (depending if they are using boon strip to remove protection) is discouraging. And apparently that’s AFTER a power nerf!

Well at least arc divider is easy to dodge now

Lord Velar.1509:

If you said thief, you have a bit of work to do, a thief shouldn’t be able to handle you well on his own

As for 1v1 or counters in any situation, that would be necros, they can rip more of your boons than you can apply

Kite reapershroud, blind/dodge staff’s marks and elite skill, interrupt his heal= necro freekill. S/f fresh air Ele has always countered necro (probably only not when mercenary amulet was a thing and chill was doing damage)

Good Thieves in other hands are more a dangerous of necros, if they they wait you burn your difensive cooldowns

Since I play mostly core Ele fresh scepter focus/scepter dagger in 1v1 scenario I only have problems with condì Mesmer since illusions with superspeed make them unkitable and difficult to dodge + confusion condition is in general a counter to Ele fresh since you use a lot of skills. And actually I’m facing a lot of very goods mesmer.
Different thing is with warriors, that usually are not a problem, since mostly of warriors I face are pretty brainless, IF you don’t have to contest the point. Good ones instead can, espacially power wars, can eat you alive with few skills if they have a good timing.
Druids and scrapper are usually a stalemate, since with focus earth skilss and focus air 4 you can avoid most of their damage but hardly you have enough pressure to kill then.
Thieves and necros are a problem only in team fight since a thief can instadown you if he catch you out of cd, and necros can Apply tons of chill (another counter to Ele) but both of them are usually not a problem in 1v1.
Dh in general are freekills if you dont mess up.

I only agree with Fire Grab… Since it has long CD and the requiriment of have burning applied to the enemy to do full damege, It really Need to be easier to Land, idk if increase the cone or the range, but something should be done about it

I’m Also not saying S/d is viable… Is totally not lol… I’m Just saying that most of the time you play healbot Tempest you are not going to have a big impact since teammates are going to die anyway even if you heal and support them.
While play a DPS build that burst down very fast people is most of the time more usefull.
Surely It Is not at higher levels when people start to Dodge skills and focus you.
And yes I play in EU, mostly solo q

scorekeeper.6524:

Waisenpai.6028:

D/D ele is still not viable in spvp

Everything is viable in lower ranks. Supp ele in low ranks is a waste, since most people don’t know how to take advantage of it OR the ele is bad himself. In low ranks, it really is just pew pew pew.

Agree… I’m Platinum tier 1 and since Gold untill now I played mostly scepter/dagger core fresh air and I have to say that the burst potential you throw in teamfight Is way better than any support you Can give at teammates Who are going to die anyway most of the time.

Feanor.2358:

lucadiro.4519:

In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

It has always been like this, it’s not something changed with the introduction of raids.

You are wrong. Before HoT mostly elementalist Nerf/buff (since we are in ele subforum) were pvp focused.
Icebow4 and FGS4 are exceptions obviously

How can people say this game is balanced around pvp while there isn’t even a pvp balance team of dev lol.
The balance of pvp in this game is just around change/removal/add sigils, Runes and amulets.
In every patch we had since raid release the balancing of skills and trait is 90% focus in PvE and 10% on pvp with really soft impact on it.

Are you trolling right?

zoomborg.9462:

Umm viper reaper can’t even compete with power tempest, let alone condi tempest.
Also someone above said that condi reaper dps is not the best but its decent….

Its not a decent dps build when u get oudpsed by condi ps 24/7, especially on fights were u dont even have to interrupt your rotation.

Condi reaper is really decent dps. Is not Easy to pull out (but even S/W Tempest is Easy) since you have to learn how combo finisher your field (as I said before) but once you get it you can do way more DPS than a condi PS.
Then if you get outdpsed from a condi PS means you are making mistake on your rotation, but even on Power Tempest if you mess up with your rotation you can get lower numbers than a condi ps, since it is Also a very unforgiving rotation.
To not mention how usefull is epidemic in some encounter, and without taking in discussion the fact that have a Tempest in group that give you icebow can push your DPS even more.

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

Fully minmaxed I beleive it’s a mix of Viper and Sinister, because the only condition it causes is burning and +burning duration is easy to get. But yeah I went full Viper too :-P

Rings + shoulder + One accessory: sinister
Weapons armor amulet back and One accessory: viper
Sigil of smoldering + burattini and berserker runes

Condi tempest is actually with condi thief the 2 top DPS build of the moment, and it has One of the easier rotation of the game.
That said a very good rotation in Power Tempest can provide a competitive dps, while bringing more cc and team utility

Honestly for get a spot in raid with condi tempest is more simple.
It’s Also way more easier to play and can pull off a Crazy DPS.
With condi reaper you have for sure less DPS, so mostly of raid pug Groups Will not May allow you to play it, things that, even if I understand, is a bit stupid since condi reaper can pull a very decent DPS, have tons of cc and in some fight it is really usefull thanks by epidemic.

So in the end if you mostly pug raid and fractal T4 i suggest you condi tempest.
Even if I found it not funny at all’ to play since the brainless rotation it has.
Btw both of them use the same armor with same Runes and both use a dagger (make sure to not ecquip the more expansive sigil here), so you can eventually Gear up One, try it, then move Gear to the other class and choose wich One touch prefere.

p.s.: for the combo finisher things, you can fix it in this way: start to cast RS 5 while moving a bit away from the group, so there Will be a small Ice field free where you can start to cast RS4 while moving into boss’kittenboxe.
In this way you Will get your combo field finisher 100% of the times.

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Ryou.2398:

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Blue.1207:

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Omega Zoa.3859:

Whats the point that it gets 30k? Every other condi spec beats rev. Everything beats rev at this point.

That’s just not true. 30k at the moment is it’s baseline on a non moving target meaning any boss that moves will take higher amounts than that. If condi ranger can make their tiny bonfires work on moving targets condi rev sure as hell can make their mace 2 work on them, plus gain the benefit of 20k torment ticks during movement.

Sure it’s not going to be used for QT speed clears most likely, but it’s comparable if not better than several other condi and power dps options I’ve seen pugs and organized groups use over the past few months.

Yeah, no. Once the boss moves out of your fire fields the DPS increase will be negligible if not non existent.

You clearly haven’t tested it or played condi ranger/condi engi/condi ele in actual raids

Ele condi got s recent netf after big patch fixed some what.

True but it’s still hitting 33k -39k depending on target size

Yep can confirm, condi tempest is still Crazy good.

Well I’m still playing the Qt One, F/Ar/T with signet arcane Power and glyph, and it is still impressive

Btw did some tested it After Nerf?

Akeno.4962:

Edit: I just wondered when has this game become a math challenge where everything is measured in still golem dps. Having fun in a videogame? How ludicrous.

Honesty for me, as I already said, condi rev problem is not the bit lower DPS, that is still very solid, but instead the fact at least with Power revenant, or other DPS classes, you have a bit more of flexibility talking about rotation while with condi rev you are forced Just to do your rotation.
I Will explain better: with Power rev for example, when was viable, you could swap to staff if your group needed more cc or do things like share protection.
With other classes, for example Tempest, you can swap utility skill (like for example lighting flash for sabetha, hammer for samarog etc etc) if the encounter, and your group Need it.
With cranger for example you can quickdraw SB 5 or swap pet if you Need more cc, or even take an other utility skill (search and rescue for samarog cm as example)
With condi revenant you are Just top forced into your damage rotation, that is Also very unforgiving.
So MY problem with condi revenant is that is just not flexibile, aka boring.
And I got bored already while testing it on golem

Zintrothen.1056:

""Arcane Power: The number of stacks this ability applies has been reduced from 5 to 4.
Elemental Surge: The duration of burning this ability applies has been reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds."

Yep, already nerfed. I feel like a mesmer again.

Meh, when I wrote “they Will fix it soon” I had the hope I would take more time

Condi ele Will be fixed soon.
The real problem of condi revenant IMO is that actually it’s rotation is very unforgiving so it is not that Easy to adapt at bosses mechanics + doesn’t provide any cc since axe 5 being part of rotation and swap to staff would bè terrible for your DPS.
I think it Need some Energy cost reduction on rotation’s skills to make it a bit more flexible.
Btw I really think is a solid DPS class now in the right hands. Not for everyone.

Lol I tried this evening in raids… Is the most op build I ever played in gw2, Pretty sure they Will fix it very soon

Miki Zu Heltzer.4018:

I used a similar gear setup to test condi rev for PvE, managed to hit 30k on a stationary golem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EEgZnGmxjU

Nice man! Got similar numbers taking condition infusions and adding axe 5 in my rotation.
Still, sadly, I think the rotation is really unforgiving and Just a Little mistake can you male lose way too much dps.
Didin’t actually already tested it in real raid scenario, since I’m busy at trying other classes, but I think it can work really well IF you can adapt perfecty the rotation at bosses’s mechanics…
So I really think condi revenant is very viable now, yes you Need actually some good skill to put out good DPS since I think real raid bosses would require you a perfect Energy management.
Really hope arenanet will soon lower the Energy cost of some rotation’s skills a bit, since other condi classes, that are still in working progress, can already push out from 35k to 38k DPS, while also providing more cc.
Btw a very huge step for condi rev, that finally seems can be a sold pick as DPS.

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

I’m curious, why the Jalis hammers? You could increase your DPS with Herald via boons + popping F2 / Elements. To my knowledge, hammers wouldn’t do much for a Condi build?

We’re talking in a raid scenario with buffs from 4 other teammates. Glint seems to underperform when you can take invocation/devastation/corruption instead of herald. The hammers do a surprising amount of damage in full viper especially with the buffs from devastation.

For pvp or wvw I would definitely take herald over devastation and potentially switch invocation to retribution.

For any non raid pve I take invocation/corruption/herald.

This^
Also jalis hammers make you proc a lot of torment with crits.

emkelly.2371:

meanwhile, i still get 100%-0% by air overload as a warrior.

Did you forgot to use endure pain, shield block, any cc, GS3, a Dodge, or Just walking away the AoE?

So Just want to share my test with people.
-I used full viper Gear (sinister shoulder)
-Runes of berserker + smoldering/malice
-Mace/axe with mallyx/jalis
- corruption: 3,2,1 invocation 1,3,1 devastation 1,3,1
-pizza + toxic
-no infusions
I got in this way 100% duration on burning poison and torment.
My rotation was basically start on mallyx, pop elite, AA, spam 2+3 off cd wait untill demonic inferno pop 2nd time, swap to jalis pop hammers until mallyx up and repeat.
Got around 26k DPS with small static golem and around 28 with the moving One (but it was dieng to fast since low hp)
I personally found Herald trait line a DPS loss.
Think there is a lot of room to improve so I would love to listen about your tought and suggestions.
Will make a video of the rotation in the next days if I Will get higher numbers.

Tomiyou.3790:

You have no idea, do you? Obsi flesh and earth protection aren’t that big of a deal.

As a zerk scepter focus ele I’d be more afraid of the fact that there is NO MORE PROC SIGILS = 30% of the damage is gone.

This^

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Indeed, I never understood how people could think zerk staff is ez mode. Even in PvE, the high DPS rotation is not easy to get at all compared to many other professions.

Well actually before the old Nerf to lava font uptime, staff was really Easy to use (still hard to maximize) since with only perma lavafont + AA + meteorshower +Fire overload you could have got Crazy numbers.
I wasn’t running a DPS meter back in these past days but Simply the fact people could do gorseval without updraft without even know wich DPS rotation do, says already a lot

Now things are changed and to get decent numbers you have to put some effort in it

I have considered to join any kind of group, no one wanted a revenant as DPS class. For sure After trying and trying you May find a group, but again spend more time to find a group instead of playing is not something funny, since with another classes you can be instantly accepted.
And is not about speedrun group.

Actually I exagerated with the magi thief thing, but is to make you get the point, that you seem to not understand.
As a 10th player of a raid squad you can litteraly play everything, because 9man are already enough to kill easily any raid encounter in this game (maybe only samarog on cm is not).
You can play even d/d celestial ele or rifle Warrior or what you want. But the fact you can get a kill with it doesn’t mean you are playing a viable DPS, you can use it, Yes… So is USABLE.
You are playing a VIABLE DPS BUILD when you can get AT LEAST more DPS than supportive classes, and supportive classes (aka cps Warrior) Will always outdps both power and condi revenant (taking in Mind everyone know to play his class) and other players have to make up for the DPS you are missing.
USABLE: you can play it, provide mediocre or terrible dps and get the kill (every class can listed here, even magi thief)
VIABLE: you are providing actually more DPS than supportive classes
OPTIMAL: mostly get top DPS vs other classes or builds
So Yes condi revenant is usable, but not viable and this is the reason why no one want it.
While maybe Power revenant can be viable in most of average groups (while get carried when all people in squad know to play their class well)
You can not care about speedruns (i don’t care about them) but if your are providing poor DPS as a DPS class you have to know that someone else in your group have to make up for it.

That said I have nothing more to say to you. I already said I think every class can be usable in raids, but i think condi revenant is not viable while you think it is.
Every One have his point of you I don’t want to change my, since I trust I true, and you seems don’t want to change yours so gg.

Past week. I have 250li and kp of every boss,even 3cm.
I tried to join a lot of group and every group asked me to reroll. Only One allowed me, on trio, to cc Mortars lol.
Do you trust me or I have to start posting screenshot?
Instead when was last time you tried to join a pug group?

I can put on a full magi set on my thief, Camp staff auto and get my dps carried by other 9 people in the group, and kill every encounter without any issue!
Yay magi thief is viable!

Please man….

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Blablablabla

Still 99% of Groups on lfg Ask you to reroll if you Ask to play as condi revenant.
So it is usable, that means you can get a kill using it, while you can Also get a kill in 4players.
It is not viable nor accepted since close to no one allow you to play it.

Again the fact you can play it with your raid team means it is usable, not viable nor accepted.

You know most people out of here that pugs raids doesn’t want to wait 2h to find a group in lfg that allow you to play revenant, while they can find instantly a group with any other DPS class.

And I’m not being pessimist or negative or call revenant trash. The fact you can’t find raid Groups on lfg with revenant is not even my opinion is a fact.

You can have your point of view about what revenant can provide to your group, but mayority of the players think it is not worth to give a DPS spot to a revenant. And this means revenant’s players can’t find a group, that means it is not accepted, that means it is not viable.

So we can stop here to talk or we can go on Forever to say it is or it isn’t viable but in the while in lfg no one Ask or accept revenant (if not as kiter for Deimos and cairn).
But at least I suggested something to help revenant balance while you are only saying it is already ok,thing that is obviusly untrue since benchmark DPS for condi revenant seems to be 24k while for the most used class start from 30k and go higher.

Yeah ok so for you most of players that pug raids are Dead weight, and no one accept revenant because of that.
But still condi revenant is not accepted in pugs, that’s mean that at least in pugs is not viable, and this the reason why I made this post.

Then you are free to play it with your raid team, but please don’t come here to say us condi revenant is viable, since me, and every other player that pug raid, can’t never get a group while on Power revenant, and this could be even worse with condi revenant.

@In nerfing time: as “competitive” DPS I mean the ability of a class to provide more or less the same DPS of other classes, to “compete” for get the spot in raids reserved for DPS classes.
And revenant is not competitive in this sense.
All’ what you say it’s nice, Yes rev help a lot. But in the end he does cover the DPS role, without gettin any near at other DPS classes. And have a revenant in party that make other supportive classes focus for more DPS doesn’t provide more sqaud DPS overall, if not all top guilds would run One, and you know what? No one run it.
Again I’m totally in the mentality of “play what you want”
But since me, and a lot of other players, mostly pug raids, 99% times when you try to join with a revenant people Ask you to reroll or kick you.
So to be honest we can easily say that for pug raids revenant is not even viable or usable, since no one Will accept you.
Just go with your condi revenant and try to join pug groups, people Will laugh at you kick you.

Also what you mean with “other classes can focus more in DPS and less in provide boon”?
You mean change their rotation or change their gear?

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Rev can make some slight alterations to it’s rotation/build to upkeep protection well with only a minor dps loss, making it comparable to hammer guard (since hammer guard is lower dps than rev anyway).

My bad I want clear I was talking taking in Mind the 24k DPS Number of condi rev the guy posted before.

narcx.3570:

Seeing the little bit of Renegade that was leaked, it seems like they’re just going to way overcompensate in the new expansion and condi rev will be massively OP when that comes out.

While what you say can bè true, I feel wired to balance a game through expansions pack instead of normal balance patch.
I mean, you can fix revenant damage output only with a simple numbers buff, you don’t even Need to rework anything

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

lucadiro.4519:

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

The guy above me did tests, although an imperfect rotation as he stated. I run Glint/Mallynx with pure Viper set, Condi duration/damage food, 4x runes of nightmare and 2x runes of trapper.

I lead off with Glint immediately then pop down Mace #2 for Burning, Poison treated Mace hits gives me 3x Conditions at that point, and I constantly move in the Field for constant burning. Throw in the Elemental drop, then Elite again when it recovers.

Your aim is generally to keep them moving in the Burning field, Might buff yourself with 3, and watch the damage go up.

Ignoring what other idiots say in the Rev forum, it is capable Condi, Power or Support.

Taking in Mind raids, running both condi or Power revenant make you Just cripple your squad.
If the numbers of the guy before are right, you do less DPS than a condi PS Warrior, that is a support class lol, there is not even a competition with other DPS class.
You obviusly can run and play whatever you want in Open Pve, fractals and even in raid, where in mostly encounters there isn’t any DPS check.
So revenant is viable? Yes it is, I mean litteraly everything is viable in this game.
But Is revenant a competitive DPS class in pve? No, is far away to bè any competitive.

See – that’s the problem right there. It IS competitively viable. The problem far too many have is that they see “viable” as “kills 5 seconds faster”. Bringing a Rev is NEVER a detriment to the squad, ever. It allows squads to focus more on DPS and less on buff upkeep and spamming because the Rev handles it at once.

Focus less on speedrunning, more on the actual game. Speed running, how fast you do it in, doesn’t matter.

How 24dps benchmark is competitive? While Also mostly moving bosses would run away from your Fire fields and stationary bosses would not proc torment bonus damage, so real DPS would be even lower.
In the end the difference in time would be way more than “5sec”, time that open more space for mistakes and eventually a wipe.

Then I, again, I really belive that everything is usable in this game, I mean you can kill all’ raid bosses without even bè in 10, or even running wired builds.
There were Also a group that killed Deimos with 10 revenant so trust me, I’m honest when I say revenant is usable in raid.
But if we talk about bè a COMPETITIVE DPS DEALER, then revenant is not competitive, and this not an opinion, it is a fact.
Also ok, revenant is a nice for boons generation, but that said we already have, in raids, 6 dedicated support classes (and 2 of them provide already more DPS than revenant) that doesn’t Need any help to provide their buffs.
I mean revenant only help with protection (since druids can already help better with might generation and Fury) where run a ministrell Chrono or a hammer DH would be a better DPS choose with a better protection uptime.

So if someone want to play a DPS class, that actually provide a competitive DPS, there are a lot of better choices. So I don’t get why I can’t Ask for some DPS buff to revenant… Maybe you can explain that to me?

Depend on wich fractal honestly.
In my opinion both staff and dagger warhorn are better on any fractals where you Need to cleave mobs (like urban battleground for example) while scepter/warhorn is better on fractals where you Need a single target damage (swampland for example).
So I usually swap builds between fractals, but if I have to give you a preference, while I love scepter/warhorn gameplay, I think standard staff build is still the more versatile One.
That said feanor already gave you a link where you can find builds and video of the rotation

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

The guy above me did tests, although an imperfect rotation as he stated. I run Glint/Mallynx with pure Viper set, Condi duration/damage food, 4x runes of nightmare and 2x runes of trapper.

I lead off with Glint immediately then pop down Mace #2 for Burning, Poison treated Mace hits gives me 3x Conditions at that point, and I constantly move in the Field for constant burning. Throw in the Elemental drop, then Elite again when it recovers.

Your aim is generally to keep them moving in the Burning field, Might buff yourself with 3, and watch the damage go up.

Ignoring what other idiots say in the Rev forum, it is capable Condi, Power or Support.

Taking in Mind raids, running both condi or Power revenant make you Just cripple your squad.
If the numbers of the guy before are right, you do less DPS than a condi PS Warrior, that is a support class lol, there is not even a competition with other DPS class.
You obviusly can run and play whatever you want in Open Pve, fractals and even in raid, where in mostly encounters there isn’t any DPS check.
So revenant is viable? Yes it is, I mean litteraly everything is viable in this game.
But Is revenant a competitive DPS class in pve? No, is far away to bè any competitive.

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Tested condi rev pretty extensively yesterday using realistic buffs on the stationary large 4mil hp golem and the mobile 1mil hp golem.

Stationary: 23.5k
Mobile: 24.5k

The mobile golem unfortunately doesn’t have a higher hp option, so I imagine the actual dps would be .5 to 1k higher since it just dies too fast to get a really accurate number. My rotations weren’t perfect, so I imagine if someone with even better rotations came in they could manage 1-2k more on both golems. Overall it seems to be nearly comparable to Power Rev.

Build was Devastation/Corruption/Invocation. Mallyx/Jalis, geomancy/smoldering, veggie pizza toxic focusing. I found Glint to be a 1.5-2k dps loss over Jalis and the Herald traitline to be less dps than Invocation even with Jalis.

Condi rev might actually do well on Matthias or VG; gonna try it with my guild soon to see what types of numbers I get.

So it is even worse than what I expected
Not even full torment damage can make it viable (read as a competitive DPS dealer).

Sooo since a balance patch is, probably, near… Please arenanet remember to add a GM trait in corruption line that make torment does full damage in pve only.
Oh and Also fixe mace2 terrain issues please.
Thanks have nice day

Sublimatio.6981:

how do you have energy complaining about legendary insights while provisioner tokens still exist in this game

This ^

apharma.3741:

Who said it was 9k on VG? I mainly see that low number on gorseval when they get blown up by retal and start casting something as a damage field comes up to them either forcing them to move or stop.

I didn’t say it wasn’t viable just that you have to be good to play ele and that’s the point that both Feanor and I are making, you have to do a lot more and the risk is a lot higher on ele than on other classes atm. Look at the D/D power thief rotation and how much damage it can do, it is actually 3 buttons for the entire thing, no long casts, no channels just stand behind and press 3 buttons. This is why they are dropping out of favour and this is why I would never ever ask someone to bring ele unless they were known to me.

Doing 9k DPS on gorseval prove even more my point. This is not a problem related to Tempest, you are talking about someone that has 0 knowledge of the encounter.
As you said, he was dieng to reta , got Black fields and stoped to dpsing. And probably he got Also all’ gorseval’s Smash.
I’m Wondering wich DPS you expect from someone like this, for sure he would have pushed out around 10k dps even on cranger, so again is not a rotation’s complex issue, probably he was using his skills without any logical sense.
Also people still have to realize that Tempest, and any other Power class, lose tons of damage by doing the slow cc strat at gorseval, and if you have 4 Tempest in your squad you have better chance to phase him (without use updraft) by insta cc.

I’m well Aware about differents difficulties of rotation’s execution between the classes. But again, it doesn’t prevent Tempest viability. Everyone that enjoy the class and put some effort in it can make it viable.

Then you are free to complain about the fact is not fair thieves have a comparable dps with easier rotation, I don’t care about this discussion.
I would maybe want to point out that at least they are both viable while there classes like necro that have more difficult to find Groups and class like revenant that are not wanted at all.
But since this post is about ele viability I stop here.
I Just find hilarious, and this is why I’m writing, that there are people trying to say Tempest is not viable in pvp and pve, while it is still One of the best classes to go.

Doesn’t change the fact this post is about ele viability, not the difficult about his rotation.
And ele is viable for everyone that put actually some effort on it.

Feanor.2358:

I’m not convinced on that. I picked a staff thief on purpose, having zero experience on the class and brought it to VG. I was only autoattacking and dodging, nothing more. I didn’t even use utilities. And I was doing 20k+.

OK, well, I’ve been raiding for months and I have some general knowledge of the mechanics. But just how bad can you screw an autoattack chain? You press ‘1’. Then you watch. If a red circle appears, you step out. I just don’t see much potential for being that bad at this.

You see, you Just prove my point.
You actually have your knowledge about VG mecanichs, so you know to Dodge blues, to don’t stand in front of the boss, don’t stand on seekers, and you are keep dpsing the boss.
I mean, on VG you can get 15k + DPS on standard staff Just using AA + lava font.
If someone do 9k DPS on VG means he is constantly getting teleported, stand on seekers, spend most of the time in downstate etc etc.
So is not a rotation problem, they probably don’t even know whats a rotation is.
I mean I saw myself Tempest, cranger and thieves pushing out terrible DPS, but they were failing at mechanics in First place.

As I said, you can only see the difference of harder rotation in terms of DPS only once basic mechanics of the encounter are archived.

Feanor.2358:

lucadiro.4519:

Player that push out 9k DPS with full buff, are not average are Just bad players

They aren’t average on skill. They are what you get when pugging, on average.

I guess it shouldn’t even be surprising. Players who are invested enough to become good eventually end up in more or less static groups. There are exceptions to that, of course. Which is why you can sometimes “top-deck” a great pug ele.

What you don’t understand is the same player that use ele and push out 9k (with full buffs) would push out the same numbers even on a thief or a ranger.
That low number is not even a problem of rotation, he Just doenst even know wich videogame is playing.

Have a Tempest doing 22k DPS and a cranger is the same party pushing out 26+k DPS is something related ALSO at the rotation’s difficulty.

Trust me 9k DPS is not a problem of hard rotation lol

apharma.3741:

Ele has been falling out of favour in PvE except maybe KC since people realised 1) Most average people are terrible at ele pulling 9k DPS even when fully buffed and 2) since the last “balance” patch nerfing ele damage.

I won’t say ele isn’t viable in PvE but you do have to be good with ele to get the high damage they are capable of, compare this to something like D/D power thief which presses 3 buttons, power engy pressing 2 or 3 buttons, condi thief/ranger with a fairly simple rotation.

A necro is a complete counter to ele, always has been and you will always loss to one with even a small amount of LF. I’m not complaining g that there are counters just pointing out that the counters atm are very common especially warriors which allows you to shut down an eles advantage pretty easily. This makes scrapper and druid much more competitive especially when paired with a necro as they both have better ways to deal with classes that are common in solo/duo queue. Ele is not mandatory and it’s easy to deal with or at least I always find them easy to deal with killing them in about 10s and the only reason it takes that long is because of obsidian flesh.

Ele is not falling out of anything, is Just no optimal for cairn, MO, and Matthias. Raid Groups for the First 3 wings are still asking and accepting eles, but Yes now we have some diversity so finally even other classes are viable.
Player that push out 9k DPS with full buff, are not average are Just bad players, since you can push out more DPS even messing up the whole rotation…. If someone push out 9k DPS as Tempest he probably don’t even know any mechanics and never tried his rotation at golem, so he would have a terrible DPS even on d/d thief.
And the fact rangers and thieves have simple rotation doesn’t mean ele is not viable. Harder to play doesn’t mean impossible to play, it Just Need more dedication and effort.

First of all’ lets say that as Tempest you would never 1v1 anyone since your are playing a support build (it’s like pretend to 1v1 with a support guard) where ele actually Excel and nor druid nor scrapper are on pair of it.
Yes reaper and Warrior counter ele, but even that die in 10 sec to a necro or a Warrior is a l2p issue.
And Just since you mention it, druid is way more countered from both reaper and condi Warrior

Exciton.8942:

I have a different problem. I can’t get the Mursaat overseer’s achievement because my teammate always forgot to do protection and refuses to let me do it.

I feel you, same problem here

apharma.3741:

lucadiro.4519:

Anti SJW.8207:

zoopop.5630:

been away for a year, looking for a new class to main for PvP arena/advance Pve. Is this class still consider great or no go?

In PVE = Yes
In WvW = Uhm kinda…
In PvP = Nope (Every other class will eat you alive)

This is pure disinformation…. You can both like or not the metà healbot Tempest build (I personally hate it) but you can’t say is not Great for PvP while it is mandatory in every team.

Mandatory in what teams? The pro league and esports has been dead for 6 months so all you have now is solo/duo where it is 100% not mandatory as you have no idea who you will be with.

I don’t agree every class will eat you alive but ele has some pretty strong counters floating around atm. Most necros will eat an ele with very little issue with even a small amount of LF, condi warrior destroys ele due to excessive daze spam but ele can hold on quite a while vs power. Generally ele is countered heavily by CC spam which is one of the reasons I ditched invigorating torrents for harmonious conduit and pure healing with aura share and careful use of water attunement.

Man even if now we don’t have tournaments it doesn’t change the fact that is from season 2 (or 3 i don’t rember honestly) Tempest has been mandatory for every serious team.
Even now that we only have solo/duo have a Tempest in team is Just gamechanging since his support contribution in teamfight is so High.
To not mention that the viability of class like revenant or necro is totally dependent from have a ele or not in team.
And in the very First moment they Will remove solo/duo you can bet tempest Will again hold a spot in every team.

So since this topic is about someone asking if Tempest is viable or not in pvp and pve no one can say Tempest isn’t viable because is false and you all’ know that.

p.s.: If you are talking about 1v1 I hardly see how a necro, both Power or condi, with low Life Force can eat a Tempest alive and in few second.
Even a condi Warrior alone can’t really down you very Easy, or fast, even if I admit that vs a cWarrior ele has an harder time.
These 2 classes are a good counter for ele only in the middle of a teamfight, where you know, is normal that if the enemy team focus you, you die, if not you would be op.

Anti SJW.8207:

zoopop.5630:

been away for a year, looking for a new class to main for PvP arena/advance Pve. Is this class still consider great or no go?

In PVE = Yes
In WvW = Uhm kinda…
In PvP = Nope (Every other class will eat you alive)

This is pure disinformation…. You can both like or not the metà healbot Tempest build (I personally hate it) but you can’t say is not Great for PvP while it is mandatory in every team.

That’s why I said to the op “if you like to master an hard class”

katniss.6735:

I would definitely not go ele for pvp reasons. But they are required for a lot of raid content. I don’t know what your current class is. Maybe try rev if you just got HoT recently.

You can dislike the gamplay ele has in pvp (i really dislike it for example) but ele is still a very good class for PvP , have an healbot Tempest in team is gamechanging? and would be mandatory for every team if we are not forced to solo/duo queue.