Guild Wars 2

Why some people feel like everything needs to be dodgeable or needs direct counterplay I’ll never understand. Game is riddled with stupid passive defenses and invulnerabilities (combined with actives right after passive procs it takes up to 10 seconds to be able to hit someone), so undodgeable, unpredictable and below belt attacks are needed. It adds depth to combat and makes people more active and aware of situation.

Daredevil is as close as it gets to proper ninja before it gets ridiculous. It would be waste of elite specialisation if they made another daredevil.

Silv.9207:

Atm, Guardian at low level, then Warrior, Thief and Druid.

Oh god, please don’t encourage people to play guardians. It’s already 4 guardians per game in every silver match.

Aenaos.8160:

Thief is definitely hard to master.Spamming that dodge button can be challenging.

Regular class: dodge, dodge,… die.
Thief: dodge, dodge, dodge,… die.
Such spam. Very evade. Much wow.
But I’m sure it’s much more challenging to master passive invulns for 5 seconds when someone drops you under 50%.

Lol, people still think macros give some special abilities and edge to players that use them. Macros can’t execute anything that a regular person with proper keybinds wouldn’t be able to do by pressing 2 or more buttons. You just need to understand your skills and how you can use more of them with proper timings. Macros might help you a bit at start but I’m sure actually learning and manually using these same skills pressing multiple buttons yields better results.
GW2 isn’t WoW where you need to bind 7 cooldowns, potion, trinkets and engineering buff to single button to make burst.

Oh I think majority of people already have some of those ready. For example: “Thief close.” is pretty common one.

I’m and idealist so sometimes I type: “Pls don’t wipe mid at start.”
Sometimes they listen.

In all seriousness, I don’t think writing a tip at the start of match will help that much. If you get team that needs to be told that it’s better to leave point than die on it, then you’ve already lost the game.

4v4 wouldn’t work on current maps. It would be too empty. 6v6 would mean one person has less impact on game outcome meaning stuck even more if you solo que.

2v2 and 3v3 on the other hand would work out on arena-style maps. It’s kinda weird that the game with combat of such great caliber doesn’t have arena-styled mode.

Right now what we have is basically mini-battleground where you’re kinda stuck if you solo-que, and then there is oversized battleground where your presence doesn’t matter and basically has no rules (WvW). And it’s weird. Why wasn’t arena-styled mode implemented for competitive play? It’s a waste of game potential and great combat system that the game has.

Lol these threads. There should be some system in place that if person plays a thief and makes thread like this he/she would get a box of glitter delivered to his home address, and in addition be permanently banned from making thief ever again.

Hardly OP. It’s just lame and annoying. Just like Vault spammers and Unload spammers. It’s a really lazy weapon set design. If you took away 4 other skills from these weapon sets they would still perform at 90% performance and that’s just sad from the game design point of view.
I think hate should be directed to the anet, not the players who discovered they can play decently against many people just by pressing 1 button.

Lol, you know stuff is becoming alarming when it’s hard to tell if op is being serious or not.

Is getting/losing same amount of points every single game like this normal? This is going on for the past 30-40 games (after update I think it started).
Numbers range from 15 to 12, 15 and 14 happening maybe once each, rest was 12 for win, 13 for losing.
Last two games for example; one was steamrolling them, other was pretty evenly matched.

Oh sorry zinks, didn’t catch at first that you never played thief.

zinkz.7045:

Julius.5931:

Why does ranger rapid fire still track cloaked thief, lets say when you cloak during mid flight of the first arrow? So unrealistic. It even gives away positioning.

Because being stealthy equating to total invisibility is massively realistic…

Beyond that stealth has very little real counters in this game this is one of the few things that marginally reduces the ez-mode that stealth is in GW2, other games have way more in terms of counterplay, because invisibility is a massively one sided mechanic.

Being stealthy equating to total invisibility is perfectly realistic in this given universe. Tracing is a broken mechanic, so it’s not realistic. Simple.
Stealth has a lot of counters and requires investment, it doesn’t come free. Also, remember that when you’re stealthed you can’t do much in terms of offense (positioning only).
Thieves have stealth, other classes have stabilities and sustain.

Got placed into low silver, doing babysteps to climb up. Some games are just not possible to carry. Sure if you’re top player you might climb faster, but average good player with some average awareness and game understanding is seriouslykittenked. It’s basically 50:50 whether you win or lose. You skills can add up to maybe 15% in favour of wins.

Sndrenerr is top PvP player for a reason. Duels really don’t matter much for thieves as far as PvP goes, so if someone is good at dueling it doesn’t guarantee he/she is good thief. WvW thieves are generally better at dueling, but that doesn’t really guarantee they are good in PvP. Rotations win games, not dueling a druid for a minute.

Class dailies bring nothing good to the game. It was a waste of coding, propagates bad matchups and fix is as easy as replacing it with just a win with any class.

Ash.8127:

babazhook.6805:

Ash.8127:

hey,

i feel that pulmonary impact in its current form is too strong/rewards headshotspam vs certain classes. as proven by many other threads a lot of players agree.

so here is my suggestion:
let it work similar to powerblock, i.e. it only works on interrupted skills that have a cooldown.

that way u can at least autoattack him and are not that much of a sitting duck anymore (especially on necro^^).

what do you think?

Nothing has been proven in other threads as to whether it PI to powerful. People have just expressed opinions on their matter which is different than proof. Spamming a headshot does lss overall damage then spamming an unload or spamming a shadowshot or spamming ones AA especaiily if one factors in the fact that not all those headshots will interrupt in order to get that interrupt applied one has to get past an extra boon called stability which something lie Shadwoshot, Unload or an AA attack does not have to concern itself with this.

The damage is fine. The skill is fine. By design the thief was made so that they can use the same skill several times in a row. That is what makes them dangerous and that also has downsides that can be seen as a weakness.

if you are interested in a serious discussion about this matter please read other users input properly. if u happen to be unable to comprehend the context thats another matter
in which case you should just refrain from this discussion. thanks.

OP, you make thread seeking discussion and then you immidiately try to shut down someone that gives you different opinion than yours? Nice move.

Babazhook is right, people only complain here about PI and nobody really gave good explanation’s why it’s op, if it really is op. Know why is that? Because it isn’t really op. Some autoattacks hit harder that PI.
PI comes at a cost and is never guaranteed damage (it also comes at a cost of giving up on very good condi cleanse in same trait tier). If someone would somehow manage to calculate the average of the damage it does (counting all the hits and misses as well as calculating in the cost) I’m sure the damage wouldn’t be nearly as impressive as many people here on forum try to make it look like.

But if enough people open threads about it in frustration after getting killed by PI, I’m sure eventually you’ll get your nerfs passed and PI will become yet another skill that nobody will take because there’s much better alternative in the same tier.

Why is stealth stacking such big issue? Is it breaking game in some way? Why isn’t any other boon stacking problem?
For example why isn’t protection stacking problem? Protection is much more active way of dealing with stuff. Or quickness? Or blocks galore? Or stabilities? Or resistance?
From your opening post it looks like ghost thieves are reason for this suggestion, and everyone knows an easy fix for ghost thieves. And traps wouldn’t be nerfed in any way if you add damage portion to them. Even better, give them large damage portion and it’ll be a welcomed buff for spike trap. Other traps can stay without damage, they are irrelevant.

Thieves are finally getting some action and immidiately there are suggestions for nerfs left and right. Let’s then just delete stealth, give thieves armor and vitality to replace for the loss of defense through stealth and… actually just copy stats from warriors and we’re good.

DeceiverX.8361:

As far as having an easy and cheap OOC stealth tool in general like the OP is suggesting, it’s really not a good idea. Stealth is a powerful effect. It should require some investment and risk to achieve it, and should reward using it at the right times.

I agree that Pistol 5 giving stealth is not good idea, but stealth does require investment and risk, you seem like very experienced thief and you should know that. Even with traiting into stealth a lot, you still need lots of resources to maintain that stealth. Standard D/P build pretty much uses up all initiative to get barely 10 seconds of stealth. And that includes jumping around a red marker on the floor that tells enemies ‘Smash here’.

Either that or give each legend another set of utilities, so people can actually make choice and customize their gameplay a bit more.
It’s been a while since release and I think it’s about time the class gets finished.
Anet is talking about balancing skills separately for PvP and PvE and yet it locks Revs to run same skills in PvE and PvP. Take any class and weapon set, and utilities they choose for PvP and PvE will usually be different in 80%+ cases.

Why every week someone comes up with elaborate way nerfing the ghost thief and at the same time breaking the whole class? Ghost thief nerf is so simple and yet it doesn’t affect anything else in the slightest bit – add damage to caltrops and spike trap. Done.

But I guess it’s easier to revamp the whole stealth mechanic, rather than fix the real ‘issue’.

Stealth stacking is fine, when you’re stealthed you’re not doing anything much, except running around. All these talks about limiting stealth are silly.

Looks like if some people here on forums were deciding, all classes would have same normalised attacks and access equally to everything. This isn’t politics.

WvW is hardly a benchmark for anything. You might have stumbled upon low levels or barely geared or low skilled people. Too much variables there.
If you think you’re so good without much skill go try sPvP and see how dueling there will be. Just look at Sindrener streams when he plays, he is best thief around but still avoids most duels for a reason.

Who got the shaft? Thief got the shaft!

Ah, another person proposing to nerf D/P just because other weaponsets are subpar (at best).
There’s a reason everyone uses D/P. It’s not because it’s op and needs nerf, it’s simply because other sets are bad and they have no real use in PvP other than crippling your own team.

And people cry so much about PI like it’s free damage. It costs 4 ini points, needs to interrupt something, and also comes at a cost of not getting that valuable condi cleanse. PI isn’t baseline, it has costs so it’s only natural that there’s some use from it. Reduce damage or make it have ICD and it’ll become yet another unused trait.

You should have named the thread “How to destroy thief”.

I agree on few points, but majority is just silly.

Also, I’m curious about this: “Stealth attack skills now have a 4-second recharge if they successfully hit.” You do know it’s pretty much impossible to land 2 stealth attacks in 4 seconds interval?

Never underestimate the nerf-hammer. It strikes mercilessly and likes to pick on the weak.

Now that thief is finally somewhat making it’s way into competitive play it’s great opportunity to smash it back into dirt.

Chase.8415:

…
Majority of the game focuses on one class and does not swap even when you feel they should. Therefore if they went with yee, the majority of the game would not notice a difference except having a lot more balanced matches and the ability to having ratings for each profession.

I don’t see how voting ‘Yes’ would improve matchmaking? Because improved matchmaking can be done regardless of lock.

Looks to me that majority of people imagined there’s more to this poll than it really is. There are arguments thrown left and right in this whole thread which are neither related to ‘yes’ or ‘no’, and most of these arguments and changes people seem to ship exclusively with voting for one option, but can be done regardless of end result of the poll.

Wolfric.9380:

A no on this poll is showing a comunity not looking forward and being selfish …. No means stagnation.
Going for a profession MMR is a base feature to allow moving forward and improve PvP.

Sometimes stagnation is better than shooting yourself in the foot.
Poll is really bad and will not solve anything. If anything, it will introduce mass of other problems that people who votes yes will realise only after it’s implemented (if it gets implemented).
Before they start locking professions they need to deal with many other problems that lead to bad matchups. When those get solved then profession locking will not be question any more as it won’t be needed.
This is just putting bandage on your forehead when you have flu. It’s not really helping, but hey, it looks like progress is being done!

“Hm, I’m bored today. I should suggest stupid things on forum.” – OP, before posting this.

Seriously op, leave.

I’m chill, I’m just supporting people losing their chill regarding this. Because they have all the right to do so.
People don’t like to be kept in dark. Doesn’t matter if Anet comes out and says we gonna do this and that and it causes riots, but then at least people know where they stand.
Right now it’s Schroddinger’s PvP. Could be dead or could be alive. We won’t know until someone starts communicating with community.

TwiceDead.1963:

martin.1653:

People play human male characters when human female meta is so strong? Mind blown.

I don’t regret it.

I had the same mindset. Then I realised I could be looking at nice pair of virtual bo0bs instead of a guy that looked like his face went through plastic many times.

Kir Sakar.3647:

Chill, you realize that a new LS episode came out? And a new raid? …

Why chill? Is it so hard to make couple of posts about their plans? Is the information in some way confidential? Is someone gonna get stabbed in the eye if they release information on future plans?

Are they building up some momentum for something? Because so far the only momentum building up is people leaving because it’s hard to say few words to community.

Baffling how a company that big that lives off community doesn’t know basics of community communication.

Last time I did the meta event to get my piece was maybe 3-4 months ago and I doubt much has changed since then, but there is always good groups that steamroll through the event. They just don’t happen on every cycle.
edit: make sure you’re doing it at least close to peak hours.

Get into organised map through LFG. Random maps will never hit T4 because people usually participate in organised maps.
I did few runs hoping random map will hit T4 until I realised I should just wait until organised map pops on LFG and from there on it was easy.

It’s so easy nowadays to call everything bad design. Airship parts are too easy to come by and making whole set aquirable that way would be really no effort and map meta event wouldn have less incentive to be played.

Azukas.1426:

Bound > Dash in fighting period. Dash is only used for the mobility. Thieves are very weak in even number fights so that ability to +1 on the map fast is why Dash is taken.

If you removed the ability for dash to get thief from A to B at such a significantly faster pace then you would see Bound being used exclusively.

I’m starting to think you are new to thief.

What kind of logic is this “If you removed the ability for dash to get thief from A to B at such a significantly faster pace” ? If you removed damage from Bound then nobody would take it. Makes no sense to even make comparison like that.
Also, if you’re to slow to be somewhere to +1 then you can’t really +1.
And as I mentioned in last post, 1v1 scenario bound is prolly better. But thief shouldn’t relly 1v1 in PvP match, so that’s why Dash is superior. (D/P is still most effective meta for thief afaik).

It would open way to many exploits, but partially could be implemented to reduce the loss for people who work overtime for their hopeless team.
Gameplay can’t be that easily quantified with numbers, so if this ever gets implemented make sure it’s extremely limited and has minimum impact.

Good idea, terrible poll.
First thing you need to remove is the class daily win. It’s completely and utterly pointless and causes needless classes to be over represented when their daily is up. Just make it into daily win. This from the start removes part of the problem.

Second thing is fix the match making system. Make it 2 max of the same class to be put on same team, and even that only to be allowed when there’s no other people of similar mmr and of other class queued at the given moment.

Third thing, make teams after all 10 players agree on the match (I think some dev here on forum said they will look into this recently). Create teams only when everyone is pilled up – their rankings averages same on both teams, and equal number of 2-man teams on both sides.

This poll seems like healing, when it should be prevention.

People play human male characters when human female meta is so strong? Mind blown.

Djinn.9245:

vesica tempestas.1563:

i didnt say the same level, and it could take 5 minutes to learn an attack pattern to kill the frog, it could take an hour, it doesn’t really matter, my point was that it will be more rewarding than killing a bunny rabbit.

To you.

Best troll EU.

Azukas.1426:

martin.1653:

Azukas.1426:

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design
The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Why is it bad design if you can’t interrupt stealth? Why should it be interruptible? Not everything needs a counterplay.

Azukas.1426:

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

Crippled thief is a dead thief.

It’s bad design because a good balanced PvP game has counter play. DP with HS through the field is balanced in my book due to it being highly telegraphed and interruptible. When bound is introduced not only does the combo become a guaranteed stealth, but its much faster than BP>HS after they removed the aftercast on BP ^^

If you are losing duels due to cripple then you need to practice more.

So you’re saying that every skill/combo in this game needs counterplay? It already costs resources to perform this combo. Isn’t that enough? I don’t understand what exactly would be counterplay for some skills. You want it to be more telegraphed so you can interrupt? Then why not put telegraph on every skill in game so we can interrupt everything and everything has counterplay then.
Getting killed, stunned, lacking initiative or endurance before you can perform combo is counterplay. Remember you still need smoke field on the ground, and that is usually red flag for everyone and people generally know what follows after pistol 5.
I know counterplays are important for balance, but you can’t just slap some specific ‘counterplay’ on everything.

As for arranged duels, not that interested in them. They carry little value in this game. In sPvP/WvW Dash is almost every time superior. (if you refered exclusively to duels, then you’re probably right about bound).
edit: having to use shadowstep or some other condi clear for cripple or chill seems like a waste when you can just dodge away and clear that while still keeping condi clears for important stuffs.

Don’t go Svanir and Chief unless necessary. Easy.
When I spot enemy player going for one of them I go and get easy kill.

If you don’t think you can kill beast easily and get the kill shot then don’t go and try to kill it. If match is even and you’re spending time trying to kill beast while your team is outnumbered and dying, then you deserve to get ganked at the beast and have the beast kill stolen from under your nose.

Acrisor.8097:

If it is allowed by developers, go ahead and exploit it. I have seen a lot of people with exploits, from going through walls and avoiding line of sight, to stomping while moving and casting multiple spells at the same time. If others can be good in GW2 PvP manipulation, so can you. Just search the web, it and you will find a lot of informations and softwares.

You do know you can use for example mesmer portal or thief teleport during stomp?

So, what op is basically saying: “I want everything and I want it now.”

I think Anet made one crucial mistake in their marketing. They didn’t tell us it’s multiplayer game. So when next expansion is announced then Anet should market it under “Multiplayer Game” tag. That way people will be less confused when they buy the this MMORPG’s expa… oh wait.

Azukas.1426:

The problem with bound being a leap finisher is you can’t interrupt the stealth.

THATS bad design
The balance with OH pistol has always been you can stop the on demand stealth. When they introduced bound that went away. That’s not a good thing

Why is it bad design if you can’t interrupt stealth? Why should it be interruptible? Not everything needs a counterplay.

Azukas.1426:

Also if you ever noticed any decent thief dueling build uses bound. Thief isn’t winning duels with Dash.

Crippled thief is a dead thief.

If you add finisher to Dash every thief and their mom will run it forever and DD traitline will be even more cemented into every single build.

IMO cluster needs to go away in favour of making this into some kind of high velocity explosive shot. There isn’t much gain from clusters, you lose finisher and it’s only good when detonating above your head. Damage of single cluster is not worth the bother, and even if it were there’s random chance it will not even hit.

Standard D/P build makes for fairly interesting and decent gameplay and isn’t cheesy. Take Marauder to gain some HP.
With dash you got tons of mobility. With other spinny-jumpy-damage one you get more damage and easier stealth. Either works. Just preference. Most people take Dash with D/P.
D/P It’s mostly focused on single target, but if you get sorounded by mobs just pistol 5 to keep them blinded.
Staff is also strong, but then again it’s another evade build pretty much.
Power D/D isn’t bad either, it’s stealth focused so you gotta practice them backstabs and landing 5.
Runes all depend, Scholar is always good option (still expensive?). I took Traveler when I didn’t have access to swiftness. And even played Infiltration some time time, it’s cheap so you can test it out (gets you 12-13% damage on enemies lower than 50%, and is decent in combination with Executioner trait).
Exact traits and 6-10 skills would all depend on PvP or PvE

Hitman.5829:

I just fought a thief and every second or so he kept evading evading, evading and breaking out of the stunts:

• Head but
• Bull’s charge
• Shield bash
• Skull crack

Not to mention blocks and a kitten ton of blinds.
And if that is not enough it could do a kitten ton of damage with critical hits in the range of 2k-3k.

What has this game become? Unbelievable!

Truly unbelievable!

Warrior clearly needs 3 more stuns. Make it stun on autoattack for proper balance!
And if you think crits of 2-3k damage is a lot, go ask light armor classes how much damage they take from thieves. Or even better, ask your fellow warriors how much they hit on thieves. Puts the things in perpective.

If you add zero after 20 or 30 then it could maybe become combat-worthy. Until then it’s just finisher under feet, nothing more.

If the jade bow appears, die, wait outside for your pals to kill it then enter.

Fight is such terribly designed. Seemed like it was off to a good start with only Caudecus, but then machine gun snipers and jade bow appeared that target exclusively you and just you, which makes this fight complete pain to play through. Playing on my thief, I died probably 20+ times (not that I’m proud), and most of the times it was: die, enter portal, instantly die again after initial evade from middle. Rinse and repeat. If Jade and snipers were up I would at most get few evades and few autoattacks on whoever I managed to reach before getting insta-downed. Again, rinse and repeat until your party actually kills them.

Is this how a fight should be?
I know I prolly did something terribly wrong in the process of fighting, but what can you do when jade bow appears, knocks you and before you can get up you’re dead. There’s only so much evades one can do.
And even with Jade Bow, you had to add the cherry on top – snipers. In that whole mess when you realise chunks of hp are ticking down you’re already dead. Took two snipers like 2-3 seconds to down me. Yes, they are squishy, but can easily kill before you even reach them.

Hard fights are fun and entertaining, but this was just stupid attrition fight that completely kills all immersion in the story and gameplay when you have to spam reset yourself and run into that portal like fool only to die before even making a single attack.

And teleporting into the middle where Caudecus is doing his stuff really doesn’t help.
Feels like fight was tested and balanced on a single class and single build and they called it a day after successfully beating it.

/rant

edit: to add, it was supposed to be a Caudecus fight, but you managed to make it into getting CC kitten d by Jade Bow and ignoring Caudecus fight. Nice.

JTGuevara.9018:

Come on, man. Did anyone actually think these pro-leaguers were looking out for this community? NOPE, they’re in it for themselves. They just want to get paid. They don’t care about making the basic features and structural changes that pvp needs that benefit the majority of people. So now that the cash dries up, they leave.

Dude, they don’t owe you or anyone else anything. Not a dime. It was their skill that got them on top and ONLY their good will that they even got involved in trying to keep the competitive scene strong and teaching us plebs how to play the game instead of sucking hard.
They gave suggestions and constructive feedback, just like majority of community did. Anet didn’t listen much. What else is there for them?
If they have chance to earn money playing games somewhere else they have all the freedom to do so. Absolutely nothing binds them to the GW2 game. If anything community and Anet owe them – because these players shared a lot of their knowledge with anyone willing to learn.

gebrechen.5643:

martin.1653:

I really hope this is a good troll to make Anet wake up.
Smite looks like a bad joke.

Smite is a fantastic game. End of story. The only reason I stopped playing it wasn’t anything balance or gameplay related but a problem with their launcher and patching system.
It’s one of the better MOBA out there – imho the best one.

Could be just the moba hater in me voicing opinion, but it’s really hard to believe one could go from GW2 combat to Smite combat. It’s like jumping from a horse to a lame donkey.