Guild Wars 2

notebene.3190:

Really? Just logging trees too? I’ll keep an eye out for that, and be sure not to skip logging any trees as I’m looking for herbs.

You can’t get “herbs” from trees, but you can get some other cooking ingredients such as cinnamon and walnuts. I don’t believe I’ve ever gotten peppercorns from a tree.

cesmode.4257:

One more thing to add…

To those of you that might say “you can either CHOOSE to log in or not, or CHOOSE to pay the gems…its up to you…”

I can also CHOOSE to wipe my rear-end after going to the bathroom, or CHOOSE not to. But the ladder will result in stinky pants. I NEED to wipe.

Sick comparison, but it gets the message across. If you want to see the content, its not a choice. You either must remember to log in, if you are even able to log in, or you must pay the gems. The content is behind a gate, any way you slice it.

Invalid analogy.

A correct pant-wiping analogy would be this:

I can choose to wipe myself.
I can choose to pay someone else to wipe me.
I can choose to trade some monopoly money in exchange for someone else wiping me.

Honestly, of all the unfounded complaints I’ve seen in my many years using the internet, yours stands tall as a particularly unfounded one.

They are giving you TWO methods of getting the content COMPLETELY 100% FREE and one method of paying for it and you accuse them of being greedy? Seriously?

If I were designing the boss blitz, I would have added a 7th event area that occupies the center of the pavilion. Mobs of the various 6 varieties continually spawn and seek to capture the center ring (where the WP is). If they succeed, all 6 of the boss events FAIL immediately and NO REWARD is given.

This defense event would allow the players who are not fighting the bosses to contribute towards the event as well without the need to tag a boss or afk in the middle.

I’d also make all of the event circles one big event, so that you’d only ever get event credit once per cycle (meaning pick one circle and stay there as moving to the others won’t get you any additional EXP, Karma, coins, or other rewards).

DarkSpirit.7046:

The whole point of this thread is to improve the product, not setting any price point, just read the OP. If you are just talking about the price point then you are derailing the thread and going out of topic.

Furthermore, if you consider the current price of BL key as already optimal, then the best way to help the OP (and others) out of his predicament is to improve the product. The BL key is notorious among players for not being worth its price.

I was responding directly to your comment that “the minority funding the game is crap” and explaining that it is not “crap” but a highly successful business model. I’m not talking about anything that you hadn’t already started talking about

Yes, Black Lion Keys are not worth the asking price to most players, but there are enough players willing to pay the asking price that it is more profitable to simply ignore people like you and I who want more out of the chests or want to pay less for the keys.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Not true.

Returning more valuable rewards from BL chests would increase the sales of BL keys without needing to decrease the price of BL keys. It is all virtual items anyway.

You’re talking about changing the product then, which means that your comments regarding minority/majority split on sales numbers (and my completely true response to them) were irrelevant.

If you change the product there will be a WHOLE NEW price point that maximizes revenue based on the increased or decreased demand resultant from the change.

Sure, it’s just a digital box containing virtual items, but people want those items and are willing to pay real money to get them, thus they have value. Making them more valuable means that some people are willing to pay more. If you improve the product then the new scenario becomes: would you rather have 1000 people pay $1.10 for widget 2.0s or 100 people pay $12.00 for widget 2.0s?

There is always a price point that returns maximum revenue, and it is almost never the one that ensures maximum number of sales because all markets represent a range of prices that the customers are willing to pay.

Here is my suggestion for a death penalty:

On WP resurrection (not player revives), get 10 stacks of “unlucky”. Each stack reduces your Magic Find by 10% (of the total Magic Find, meaning you will have 0% right after death). A stack is removed every time you kill a foe.

This would let death have a negative consequence in that your loot is suppressed until you work off the rigor mortis while not affecting your combat effectiveness.

DarkSpirit.7046:

If ANet wants to increase their sales, they should fix their gem store. The old excuse of the minority subsidizing for the majority is a load of crap, as it ridiculously assumes that ANet sets a boundary to their earnings which they decided never to exceed. Too much money a problem?

“WE” meaning those who know better.

No, it assumes that there is a price point that returns maximum revenue and that point is not the same as the price point that returns maximum number of sales.

The minority supporting the game model works because the minority is willing to spend a LOT more per transaction than the majority will, so catering to the minority returns more revenue.

Would you rather sell 1,000 widgets at $1 each or 200 widgets at $6 each?

Freeelancer.2860:

Right, it looks like I should’ve elaborated a bit more on my situation. My apologies for being too laconic.

By lazy I mean I don’t like to click a bunch of times for 10000 silver ingots or to open 1250 heavy loot bags or craft 750 rare lv73 swords… and then rinse and repeat day in/day out.
Upgrading materials, making items in bulk, buying low, refining/crafting/salvaging and selling high may all be a great investment… but, while finding a market may be somewhat exciting (not really, there’s tons of ways to make money on TP) the rest of the process is terribly time consuming and mind-numbingly dull for me.
I’m looking for something bigger and I don’t mind lower margins or whatever.. After all, in my mind, it’s better to get 1% ROI on 5000g item that I can sell in a few days then having 50% ROI on 500g bulk items that sell like hot cakes, but having to work my kitten off. I hope I’m making sense..

In short, what I’m trying to say is that I’d rather work as an investment banker then a meat packing king who prefers to get down and dirty instead of managing his empire from his villa.

EDIT: I guess another way to describe what I’m looking for is a market that values time investment over raw profits.

Rare skins speculation.

High upfront cost, low maintenance, decent profit potential, but low volume.

Basically, buy up some rare skins when they are dropping (i.e. cheap) then hold on to them until the price goes up.

The only real risk is ArenaNet dropping a new source of the skin, but that’s pretty infrequent and somewhat predictable going forward.

Frostfang.5109:

Take away the ability buy black lion keys from Black lion Company.

Only have them as rare drops.

Change the content in the chestas so that they ALAWYS contain something useful (Like makeover/harstyle kits, boosts, ticket scraps etc – not like box-o-fun, single-use tonics etc)…
I never buy them. And the VERY few drops that I have got of them have given me mostly junk… I’ve had 3 tickets scraps and i have been a frequent player since release.

Also make it impossible to farm them by starting new characters over and over again – it’s being abused. Take them away as personal story reward.

If they stopped selling keys for $, then they would need to find new ways to replace the lost revenue, which will be massive.

Keys are definitely one of the best selling items in the gem store so unless you can come up with a way to generate several million dollars a month by NOT selling them, your idea is DOA.

Phlogus.2371:

OP- How long have you been on our server? DO you know where we have come from? GoM is nothing but a target rich environment.

Most definitely so. I managed to get nearly all of my Spring 2014 achieves in GoM borderlands causing havoc!

DR certainly has the talent and organization necessary to make our GoM matchups competitive.

Johje Holan.4607:

GoM can’t be that big. They’re only beating DR by less than 20K. That’s pretty close. The only match closer is T1 and T8.

“Big” is a relative term.

GoM isn’t big when compared to the gold servers, but population-wise it is huge compared to the bronze servers.

Some of the bronze servers were able to make the matchups competitive, but it required exceptional organization (kudos to the DR commanders on that front btw).

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Yeah, I remember farming gold to buy my awesomeness in EverQuest as well as World of Warcraft.

Oh wait that never happened. I actually had to go out and do all this hard content to earn my prestige. If only I had been able to flip my way to success…

I’ve never played those two games before. Was in-game currency that useless? If so, what’s the point in playing if there’s no money system?

The big difference between those games and GW2 in terms of gear (other than the obvious treadmill that comes with a subscription game) is that in those games you need to grind Activity A over and over and hope for Item A to drop whereas in GW2 you can grind Activity A-Z and use the gold generated to buy Item A-Z.

Some people feel like grinding one activity for each item is better (heaven knows why). Other people realize that GW2 gives you MORE options for getting your gear and appreciate that they can do the stuff they like doing to get the stuff they like having.

I think that ArenaNet should use “Average number of players in WvW” as the primary metric for tier grouping, not win/loss ratios (which should still be a metric, but secondary in the calculation).

It is quite disheartening knowing that all the organization in the world won’t help you against superior numbers of the order of magnitude GoM brings against the other Bronze tier servers.

Azhure.1857:

That is true, they do need players to pay in order for them to operate. However they ARE getting money from game sales and from gem shop purchaces. You can’t convince me that their earnings are low.

No one said that their earnings were low. The whole point of running a business is to make as much money as possible. They aren’t running some kind of charity where they only need to cover the operational costs, they want to cover those and then get as much additional revenue as they can.

laokoko.7403:

silvermember.8941:

Also, increasing supply would only increase the price as well. You can find the topic somewhere here.

Please explain, and don’t tell me just because some one said so.

Increasing the supply of Precursors would increase the COST of crafting a Legendary.

It works like this:

More Precursors means more people working on a Legendary.
More people working on a Legendary means more people buying T6 materials.
T6 materials are not efficiently farmed, thus the supply rate will only increase slightly while the demand will increase significantly.
Ergo, the price of T6 will rise steeply causing the cost of Legendary crafting to increase. Additionally, since T6 materials are also used to craft many other things, those things will also go up in price as well.

Essentially, demand for T6 is currently bottlenecked by the Precursor drop rate which is keeping T6 prices low. Remove the bottleneck and the demand spike will result in higher prices for almost all end game crafted content.

Xenon.4537:

Even if converting more gems in to gold is good for the gold/gem market, it still stinks of greed. It still requires people to pay real money to make more gems. Advertising it just looks like a cheap, desperate cash grab.

Just so you are aware, ArenaNet is not a not for profit entity. They need players to pay real money in order to operate their business and provide profits for their shareholders.

Hope that cleared things up for you.

Zoe.8310:

Hmm, I wonder why they didn’t just flat out replace the old red rings then?

Because that would be too cluttered, visually.

They are trying to use the new rings in places where you REALLY need to know to move away. They haven’t taken the time to go back over all the existing content and make that determination yet.

Duke Nukem.6783:

“hey dont listen to these guys because they have their own hidden agenda”

What’s my agenda then, since you are so certain in your fallacy that you clearly have access to more knowledge of my own position than I do?

Zephyron.7081:

Anet should use a f2p/b2p subscription model similar to swtor. They can make revenue with gem store items, but they won’t have to rely on strictly the gem store due to a strong dedicated base of players paying $15 a month. Subscribers should get discounts at the gem store and other perks. With Anet securing a consistent flow of income they should be able to afford the additions and modifications to GW2 that we have been asking for.

I specifically left SWTOR because their changed subscription system made the F2P people second class citizens who couldn’t play the game. I would still be playing it had they correctly implemented the F2P model like GW2 did.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

I wish one gaming company online would have the courage to say “We don’t want an economy, we won’t foster greed in the players. We won’t be a part of this downward spiral of the human condition. We care about creating a world to visit and journey through. A world of what could be, not reflecting what is. A world where there is a uniting force, a unified goal, bringing all the different facets of all that is good and laudable in those walking it’s imaginary streets.” I guess I truly live in a fantasy world, since it seems the reality is, greed and avarice are all that matters to gaming companies today. It is no longer an art form, a form of expression and experience. It’s just another revenue stream, that has no redeeming effect and no positive influence. Guild wars 1, was a wonderful world. While there are glimpses of it in Guild Wars 2, sadly they are far and few between. Greed is the underlying factor, it motivates every step in the game, it drives every story, and infests every journey. It is to weep.. Too bad the BLTC made it through the LA attack. I wouldn’t have missed it at all.

So… you want a game that has no loot system at all? It’s called “Halo” and it is right over there >>>>

I would have paid to have my crafting recipes and levels made account bound. I won’t pay for having 3 active crafts.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

mtpelion.4562:

They are reminding players that you can convert cash into gold legitimately in order to combat the spike in gold sellers.

Sorry, do not agree. Anyone who is going to buy gold illegitimately is going to do so to save money, and will not change their actions based on ads from ANet. I’ve played this game since launch and I can see the path to gold get more and more narrow every single patch. Granted, this is a B2P game, and they are relying on the gem shop sales to fund future stuff. Fine. But let’s call it as it is shall we?

I am calling it like it is. The correlation is between gold seller activity and ANet announcements.

Gold sources versus sinks is a separate issue that has been very well balanced so far. It seems like it hurts a bit right now since they just removed a passive (i.e. bad) source of gold generation (champ bags) and the prices haven’t adjusted downwards yet to reflect the reduction in gold supply.

They are reminding players that you can convert cash into gold legitimately in order to combat the spike in gold sellers.

Wanze.8410:

I dont hide funds, i invest them:

A rare look into Wanze’s banks! This is a real treat!

TheGrimm.5624:

Have to disagree, if anything I would like to see additional F&N options as well as other categories of consumables. Anytime you are able to allow people to further customize their characters with options that are interesting and of value you extend game play as people can try content one way and then re-try content with an altered character. In that light more categories of consumables would further options for customization. Now another aspect to this is that consumables are also a trade line that helps the game rotate funds and items in and out of the game as their resources need to be refreshed since once used are gone. To crafters and traders that makes those lines of some additional interest over others potentially.
2 cents, good hunting!

Adding more options will do nothing because food/potions currently provide standard stat boosts just like any other piece of equipment. With the current design, there will always be 1 BiS food/potion type for each type of content (PvE,WvW,PVP, etc.).

This is why I think food/potions should not directly buff any stats and should instead be used to customize HOW you play not how much damage you can deal/take.

More gear slots is not “better”… it’s just more gear slots.

Duke Nukem.6783:

its also important to notice that this is the forum where the TP barons hang out not the common man. so the opinion we see here is unrepresentative of the majority of the game….but im sure some of the posters here would like to forget that =)

Is this supposed to be some kind of inverted appeal to authority? “Hey, don’t listen to these guys because they know what they are doing!”

I do think that the food and potion design could be significantly improved.

If it were my call, potions would only be of the “slayer” variety and would come with a variety of “offsets” (due to those caustic chemicals, don’t ya know?).

An example would be:
1. Vapid Potion of Undead Slaying
a. +5% Damage to Undead
b. +5% Defense Against Undead
c. -10% Endurance Regeneration

or

2. Limp Potion of Undead Slaying
a. +5% Damage to Undead
b. +5% Defense Against Undead
c. -10% Combat Movement Speed

Instead of changing the % with each tier, you would uncover different offsets allowing you to customize your potion usage based on your spec.

Food should provide no direct damage buffs but should instead be based around increasing Karma, Gold, Magic Find and granting random Boons and providing resistances to specific conditions.

Potions and Food should keep their Exp boosts.

Pandaman.4758:

Think I missed the point, but how does having more players justify a borderline-punitive drop rate? Regardless of how many people are around you, it doesn’t change how you – as an individual player – would perceive a 1/20 chance versus a 1/100000 chance for a good reward.

You want rare loot to be rare. If you have 4 people playing a game then 1/20 is rare.

If you have 1,000,000 people playing a game, 1/20 is no longer rare.

This is primarily due to the difference in samples. With 4 loot rolls in total on a 1/20 chance item, it most likely won’t drop. With 1,000,000 loot rolls in total on a 1/20 chance item, you’re going to have approximately 50,000 items dropping.

Duke Nukem.6783:

haha no, they absolutly exist and people HAVE made threads on this before and people DO complain about it in game. stop trying to undermine the issue by saying it isnt an issue, its an issue to me and u need to respect that

People, in general, want to receive the most amount of money possible and spend the least amount of money possible whenever they engage in a financial transaction.

Sure, there are those who want to cheat themselves for various reasons, but they represent a statistical aberration, not the norm.

What you are suggesting is that all gloves ever made should have 3 fingers and a thumb on them, because some people have lost a finger.

skullmount.1758:

Yeah, RNG has gotten really old. The same few people have all the luck and the rest of us get squat.

Being lucky is hard work.

Can you guys please stop picking on Mike? You’re driving him into the Black Lion forums.

Megis.9264:

Only because a few people manipulate it up to those prices.

They haven’t manipulated anything, they have bought and sold goods at prices that other players were happy to receive and spend.

The fact that those prices were higher than what you can afford is not manipulation, it is a result of supply and demand.

ZilentNight.5089:

So everyone I have spoken to has gotten a Wvw chest and even though I completed not just the meta but every single achievement, I have nothing to show for…..

I also did not transfer servers at all….

Have you opened a Support ticket? The forum cannot help you with resolving this issue. Click on the Support link at the top of the page and create a ticket.

Megis.9264:

It won’t get filled if the people selling them for 2500g, keep buying them for 1300g

Which means you are wrong, it is not worth 100g, it is worth between 1300 and 2500g, depending on how fast you want it.

Megis.9264:

And everyone that doesn’t have 1300g just lying around and would still love the item, which would otherwise have been 100g tops, isn’t.

Everything is worth what the purchaser is willing to pay for it.

If a purchaser is willing to pay 1300g, then it is worth 1300g.
If you feel that it is worth 100g, feel free to place a buy order. If it gets filled then you are correct. If it does not get filled then you are incorrect.

Megis.9264:

As relating to the game, at the very least I would say that there should be restrictions on buying items, and selling those same items with a profit, at the same time.
The people listing items for sale at 2500g+, are the same ones as those buying it for 1300g.

Let’s say that is the case (which you actually don’t know and thus can’t state for certain). Why is that bad?

They just gave some guy the 1300g he asked for so he is happy. They also just relisted it so that someone with a lot of coins can buy it instantly and he is happy. Meanwhile the flipper made 825g in profit so he is also happy.

Person A = Happy to get the gold he asked for right now.
Person B = Happy to get the item he asked for right now.
Person C = Happy to make a profit for facilitating Person A and B.

Everyone who is a party to the transaction walked away with exactly what they wanted.

Megis.9264:

I could have sworn people tended to get arrested for market manipulation. Unless you’re a fortune 500 company, then it’s suddenly okay.

Define your terminology.

Spoofing rarity for necessities in real life is bad, because people MUST buy necessities.

Spoofing rarity for luxury items in a luxury recreational activity is not bad because it is a luxury item in a luxury recreational activity. You don’t NEED CoL and the only people who are being hurt by the spoofing are people with more coins than brains (because people with brains would have placed a buy order rather than purchased an overpriced sell listing). When it is all said and done though, the real fact of the matter is that all transactions occur between a seller and a buyer who are in agreement to exchange X for Y gold.

Oddflame.3601:

As simple as it sounds, I would like to know how to remove the transmagraphy thingy and just see my items change as I equip them.

You can’t “remove” the transmutation, however you can apply the original skin back onto the item as a new transmutation which achieves the result you are looking for.

Tachii.3506:

LordByron.8369:

It would lower T6 price and boost precursor price and any luxury item price.
Also skins and put gems Exchange out of reach for non TP speculators.

Not really. You can simply sell the rares/ectos/t6 for money. It also probably won’t increase precursor price considering there will be more rares and exotics on the market.

Cheaper T6 could increase demand for precursors, however there will definitely be an offset since exotics will be cheaper which will drive down the cost to forge a precursor. The question then becomes, does the offset negate the demand increase or not?

Soulbound is a flat out BAD mechanic in any game. When you include Accountbound in the same game, Soulbound really sticks out as being BAD.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Taygus.4571:

RyuDragnier.9476:

They need to make precursors craftable, it’d fix the problem in a heartbeat.

and triple (if not more) the prices of mats in a heartbeat.

So what? If T6 soars in price more people will farm the mats. This is a weak argument against fixing the lame precursor situation we have now.

T6 fine materials aren’t readily farmable.
They are used in Exotics, Ascended, Runes, Sigils, Potions, Food, and unique skin crafting. Raising their price will result in significant increases in these prices, as well as T5 fine materials (used for promotion) and everything made with those as well.

Shifting the majority of the expense of a legendary to the T6 materials will profoundly increase prices across the board for all sectors of the in game crafting economy which is something ArenaNet is aware of and most likely the main reason that Precursor crafting hasn’t been added yet.

Jerus.4350:

And the kicker… I was on my lvl 43 warrior (now level 51) just throwing seed not even attacking Shurakk half the time, and he was still going down that fast.

Thanks for that! Whenever I’m on a ranged character I camp the seed bags to keep the hawks away. Whenever I’m on a melee character I have to keep running back for seed bags because people throw them at Shurakk’s feet!

Flissy.4093:

WingLegacy.7159:

I still say NO TO precusor crafting. Legendaries are common enough dont make it more common…..

You misunderstand the market. If precursors suddenly fall from the sky for everybody, T6 will fly universally. Imagine if you can save 800g by crafting Dusk compared to it’s price now, the majority of that 800g would just shift onto the cost of T6.

To elaborate on this, since T6 impacts MANY markets, not just legendaries, the shock to the entire game economy would be pretty significant. Imagine exotic and ascended gear, top level potions, and sigils/runes being several hundred gold each (around what we pay now for Precursors on the TP) because of the increased material prices.

That’s why any type of Precursor crafting will come with a LENGTHY time gate.

Manasa Devi.7958:

mtpelion.4562:

If you were there at the beginning of the Boss Blitz, then you should be in one of the fighting groups.

If you arrived late and asked if any groups needed help and they don’t, run to a boss, hit it, then go do something else.

When people keep pulling others into a ‘gold pavilion’ until it’s hardcapped, there will be too many players. The system relies on people being afk at the center, or doing the gauntlet. In ‘gold pavilions’ that people are actively keeping hardcapped, sometimes not enough people are afk. It’s impossible to arrive late, unless you were one of the afk people.

The problem with this content is that the event doesn’t keep everyone who’s playing it occupied, and if people decide to occupy themselves by helping out somewhere, stuff starts going south. Expecting people to actively not do anything, even get near a boss they’re not supposed to, for kitten’s sake, that’s terrible. It’s really just very, very badly designed, which is quite surprising, after they figured out how to make things work with the color pool buffs at Scarlet’s knight events.

Well, I don’t know what’s going on in any hard-capped maps. I’ve not seen more than 40 or so people in the instances I’ve been in, not including the first day. In the instances I’ve done, there are very few people who are “not occupied” since there are very few people period.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Yeah, we all now that by now. But here’s the thing:

I’d rather scale up a boss than stand on the sidelines. Because not playing is more boring than having fights that last too long. Loot be kitten ed, I have all the cash I’ll ever need, another 2 champion bags aren’t causing me any loss of sleep.

Having to chose between those 2 options at all is what makes this content rubbish, and, incidentally, the point of this thread.

If you were there at the beginning of the Boss Blitz, then you should be in one of the fighting groups.

If you arrived late and asked if any groups needed help and they don’t, run to a boss, hit it, then go do something else.

By sticking around at the fight you are HURTING everyone, including yourself. If that kind of gameplay doesn’t appeal to you, WHY ARE YOU GOING THERE?!?

Rentapest.6503:

Flying Dolyak race – Completed. It’s looking like a nice gold reward is due as 50ppl completed already with 6minutes to go! Awesome!

But rather than sit around for 6mins, I could get some more tokens playing Aspect Arena right? Wrong!!! Joined Aspect Arena only to be on a losing team, get no rewards and come out in a totally different mega-sigh-server to a race that has 5 ppl completed and 2minutes left!

So, yet again another event that is completely ruined by overflows/mega-sigh-servers. We had these problems with the Lion’s Arch event, where many many groups were unable to kill the Knights and participate in the event because of bad overflows and lack of co-ordination.

The exact same thing is happening with this event in both Pavillion and Bazaar. Even if you waypoint at the bazaar from top to bottom you run the risk of being thrown into another Mega-sigh-server.

It is impossible to participate in events unless you log on at 4am in the “main” event zone and camp it until people come on then waste your entire day farming it properly. Is that the kind of people this game is now aimed at? Hardcore hoboes?

Why is this game not playable by the “casual” community of players who just want to be able to log on and do the events that everyone else is doing? I log on and it’s just one bad overflow after another since release.

PEBKAC

What a lot of people don’t realize is that any type of guaranteed Precursor-granting system is going to be time-gated and that time gate is probably going to be 1 year per Precursor.

Bias.4306:

In The Queen’s Pavillion scaling has made it so that people are encouraged to NOT work together.

This seems opposite to every other design decision made in GW2 where teamwork is encouraged. Was this a conscious design decision by ANET…? Or did they just mess up?

Quite the opposite really. If you are near the boss and scaling it up, YOU are the one who is not working together.

People who work together have a goal and a strategy. The people who are keeping 9 people at a boss ARE working together and the people who are showing up at those fights and ignoring the instructions to leave ARE NOT working with the group but against it.

Professional Rangers know that the spec you use for your Ranger in every aspect of the game is 100% wrong in instanced content like a dungeon. Amateur Rangers don’t know this, so they go into dungeons or fractals in their general PvE/WvW/PvP build and give all Rangers a bad name.

Obviously, Rangers aren’t the only class that faces this issue, but most players are more forgiving of other classes who are poorly specced because they at least bring SOMETHING to the group, whereas Rangers outside of instanced content are almost exclusively specced SELFISHLY as part of their class design.

Moral of the story: Learn a good dungeon spec and use it for dungeons. Use your other spec(s) OUTSIDE of dungeons.

Even better, get two Rangers and save time on gear/trait/pet swapping.

Best, run with guildies.