For future reference ArenaNet, this is how wave defense is supposed to work:
1. The timer counts UP, not DOWN. Finishing waves faster grants better rewards.
2. There is a CD from the time the last enemy dies and the next wave starts (waves CANNOT overlap).
3. Dead foes drop resources that can be used to bolster your defense for the next wave.
Candidate Trials would benefit from a significant redesign to make them fun instead of boring/aggravating.
In what way are the “poor” players competing with the “wealthy” players?
There are infinite numbers of everything available to every player. No one can prevent you from obtaining anything in this game.
I think it has something to do with “e” characters.
It looks as though “en” is being replaced with kitten, which results in an infinite censorship loop.
I wonder if someone decided to censor kitten with kitten and started an infinite loop of censorship.
This is a bad idea. It will create supply shortages when timers run out which will cause price spiking. It will also result in less incentive to actually list things which will further cause price increases due to lower supply.
The end result is less overall gold sink due to less transactions AND higher overall prices as a result of less transactions.
So the middle man serves a very important function in the game (and in the real world). If every single seller was more interested in waiting on their money from the sale of their items, then the middle men would not exist. They would have nothing to offer the market. But as long as sellers are more interested in gold NOW than in a bit more gold later, middle men will have a place, and a useful function, in the economy.
Exactly. There is a supply of skelk tails on the TP for sale, the lowest sell order is 10s. I have the highest buy order at 5s. The skelk farmer comes in with his bags full and wants to turn them into cash. He could sell them to me for 5s each, or undersell the lowest available price and make almost double the money, 9.99s each.
Why, then, does he sell them to me for half price? An hour later my buy orders are filled and I list them for 9.99s and make a profit even after TP fees. And why do they sell after another hour, when the buyers could simply put in their own buy order at 5.01s?
Because people want the stuff NOW. They don’t want to go away and do other things for a few hours, then come back to collect their stuff. They’ll take less gold now, or pay more to get the tails now, rather than wait for someone else to come along. I have patience, I could list the tails at 11s each and while they won’t sell immediately, in a few days I’ll have made a bigger profit than the one who sold them to me for fast cash.
You’re taking a risk listing at 11s though, as that is outside the current buy bid/seller list range. You may be rewarded for your risk if the lower priced sell listings are all bought or you may wind up having to eat two listing fees because your product never sells, but that is the game that flippers play every transaction.
you think bosses that regen their health would encourage balanced team comps?
No, I think that teams being required to regen the team’s health at a minimum rate would encourage balanced team comps.
Dude, try to be a little less hostile. All I wanted was an explanation, which until now you refused to provide.
I do think that without flippers the markets would more or less find their own price equilibrium, but you may be speeding the process.
So… on to concentration of wealth. Kidding.
I will say that extreme concentration of wealth can lead to stagnation in real world markets, but in game concentration doesn’t have a similar effect since money is being created out of thin air all the time by playing the game. Having high concentrations of wealth will drive up the price of luxury items though and since luxury items are end game content it would probably be in the best interest of the game if some expensive gold sinks were added that targeted the ultra wealthy.
I’m thinking real estate…
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Not true in this closed system. There are no viable alternative outlets for goods. People can’t make side deals (too much scamming and corruption) and the vendor price is ridiculous. I think it’s more reasonable to say, the seller sold for the price he could get and the buyer bought for the price he had to pay.
The seller paid a price for getting his money now in the form of taking a lower amount than he could have.
The buyer paid a price for getting his product now in the form of a higher amount than he could have.
The profit the flipper makes is the price of convenience to the original seller and the final buyer. It comes at no one’s expense as they both chose to pay it for the convenience of a fast transaction.
sounds like it greatly favors full dps teams
Not if you set the HP/sec threshold high enough to where at least ONE player has to have enough healing or ONE player has enough survivability to counter the HP loss over time.
It would obviously require balancing, but I think the concept is solid enough.
Every action you perform in the real world and in Guild Wars is selfish. Every action YOU perform is by your own volition, meaning YOU WANT to perform that action. If you WANT it, it’s selfish. Think about what you’re saying.
The mental gymnastics you folks will employ to justify flipping will never cease to amaze me. Truly.
Come on, we all know that the profit comes at the expense of somebody else. I don’t really have a problem with flipping itself as it’s one of the last ways of actually making money in this game but I do have a problem with flippers trying to pretend they’re doing something useful here. When you flip you do it for one reason and one reason alone and that is to make a load of gold for yourself. And hey, I don’t have a problem with that as I’ve often resorted to the very same methods when I’ve been in a tight spot.
My problem is that this is a fundamentally broken and unfun system. The most efficient way to progress shouldn’t be sitting in Lion’s Arch and playing the trading post. That is the crux of the issue and that is what needs to be rectified. It’s a far greater issue than farming.
At whose expense does the profit come? The seller listed the item and got exactly what he asked for it. The buyer purchased the item and paid exactly what he was willing to spend.
Seems to me like everyone got exactly what they wanted out of the transaction, including the flipper.
I think that the first thing they should try to do is balance the boss encounters around some form of healing rate. So if a boss fight was balanced around a healing rate of 500HP/sec then the party needs to be able to put out that rate on average. This means they could bring one guy who actually does 500HP/sec or they could each do 100HP/sec or any mix between the two. Obviously, increasing health/armor will reduce the amount of HP/sec needed to win (simply because you live longer) and increasing the amount of DPS will also reduce the amount of HP/sec needed to win because the boss will die faster (barring periods of invulnerability).
This system would force aspects of the trinity back into the meta without actually requiring people to spec as Tank and Healer.
In the real world, trading doesn’t cause inflation. What are you talking about? Printing money cause inflation, so does money multiplier effect.
I was specifically speaking about power trading, not normal trading. In real life this could happen as well…that’s why there are laws against cartels and such. When the sellers dictate the price they cost more than they are really worth, that’s inflation, because your money is worth less for such items.
Inflation does not occur when a specific product is moved outside your buying power. Inflation occurs when all prices in the entire economy move up in order to take advantage of an increase in buying power due to an increase in currency volume.
Surely ArenaNet didn’t intend for us all to huddle up in Lion’s Arch to progress?
Actually, ArenaNet intended that people who enjoy playing the market would be able to huddle up in Lion’s Arch to progress. That’s why they hired an actual economist to oversee the implementation and administration of the game’s economy. They could have very easily just made everything soulbound on pickup but chose not only to not do that, but to create the system by which profits can be generated through trading objects.
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Part of the reason bosses are damage sponges with one hit kill moves for you to dodge is because GW2 moved away from the “holy trinity” of Tank – Healer – DPS.
Because of this, the bosses have to be designed as a fight against mechanics, not a fight against damage. Since it is a fight against mechanics, the highest DPS squad has the exact same survivability as the highest HP+Armor squad and will therefore finish the content more quickly.
The problem is endemic to the design philosophy.
Pushing or pulling (ie market manipulation) can temporarily change a limited part of the market and increase or decrease the price of that part of the market drastically. HOWEVER, the market will soon return to a ‘normal’, balanced price as soon as the reseller is done.
That only works in regards to goods with constant supply. The problem with assuming that the supply is going to stay constant is that flipping yields far higher rewards than farming and flippers are reliant on farmers to make a profit in the first place.
But why farm so flippers can reap the biggest benefit? More and more farmers will ask themselves that question.
That’s like asking why corn farmers are still wasting their time growing corn when they could be trading ethanol futures. The answer is that they like growing corn, they know growing corn, and they have no interest in not growing corn.
Some farmers may switch to trading, and some may add a trading portfolio to their earnings, but most farmers are going to continue to farm because they don’t have the desire or knowledge to get into the trading meta.
Not necessarily. Shelt/pen/orr farms largely generate materials which do not affect gold inflation
Granted. I was referring to gold farming but didn’t clearly specify.
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Rewards/loot for general gaming does need changing/tweaking, and hopefully the update on the 6th will go towards doing that. But expecting a cap to be placed on flipping, or thinking that flipping is the only “endgame” just seems somewhat odd to me.
While my own feelings are split, something should be done to pull the TP profit mongering down to match other areas of the game.
Anet has pretty much an anti-farm stance. While they can be slow to update things, they have continuously been making changes to locations where players are farming. Dungeon update, recent Arah farm spot change, etc..
To leave an area of the game completely uncapped, unregulated, etc. would not be good for the overall game. In short, it tells players, that in order to make gold, play the TP.
You and many others simply seem to be caught up in the suggestions for a fix, rather than acknowledging that a fix is needed. Whether it comes in the form of additional/increased fees, limits, or even a time limit on postings is irrelevant.
The anti farm stance is required, because farming is the number one cause of inflation in a game. The Trading Post on the other hand is the main tool used to combat inflation and thus won’t be nerfed.
To put it simply, if you limit profits from the TP, farming will be likewise need to be significantly nerfed in order to compensate for the loss of deflationary action.
I think that the pre events are where the challeges should be implemented and that the reward from killing the boss should increase based on how many pre events you were involved in.
The world boss itself cannot be made challenging due to the number of participants involved (the lag alone makes a dodging requirement onerous).
Your definition of price gouging is …. LOl… That is price gouging???
Anyway, what if someone like to play the market and economy. Why are you forcing them to go out if they don’t want to? Sounds like you want to impose your way of life on others. I am sorry COF got nerfed, get real.
Because you are hurting the market and subsequently other players through your selfish actions? By raising prices you are increasing the grind for buyers and making their gameplay experience less enjoyable overall.
Eventually this will spiral completely out of control as more and more people are forced into it. The shortsighted greed of the community will prove disastrous in the long run. Let’s look for a solution before it gets worse, shall we?
You cannot raise prices. You can adjust your prices upwards to reflect an increase in buying power.
If you arbitrarily raise your prices then no one can afford what you are selling. Now you are losing money (if you have overhead costs or have to pay to relist at a lower price).
Flippers CANNOT harm the economy. They can only harm themselves by being too selfish.
If you like TP flipping then that is great! I have absolutely no issues with people that do. I was a power trader in GW1 and made a ton of ecto/armbraces from it. The issue is that I wasn’t the only source of the item. My Req 9 Crystalline could be purchased through online auctions and a myriad of other players which helped dictate supply and demand. In GW2 everything is centralized and supply and demand is dictated through a monopolisation. It would have been hard for a player to buy every Req 9 Crystalline in GW1 but in GW2 it is a few clicks of the mouse.
You cannot monopolize an infinite resource that everyone has unlimited unrestricted access to.
Buying all of the stock out does not give you a monopoly, it gives you more of that item in your inventory. Other players are generating more of them as we speak meaning you have cornered nothing.
In the real world, trading doesn’t cause inflation.
Especially when trading actually deletes money from the system as the BLTP does.
If you want to make the most gold you will need to invest.
Sure you can make gold, but it’s not comparable. TP Flipping is the way to go, you can GRIND cof p1 but soon that will be stopped.
You talk about investment, what about investment into the game? Being good at PvP and WvW nets you nothing and we’ve already discussed PvE.
Obtaining a precursor for example is blind luck or having to pay TP Flippers over inflated prices for the privilege. Where’s the legendary in that? Nothing.
Inb4: Don’t like the system around TP Flipping, don’t get involved. Sure, but your missing the point. GW2 the game of spreadsheets? Please. TP Flippers have too much power over the market as it is.
You are however right about the game should be fun.
Time is not an investment, it is an expense. If you want to maximize your gold per hour you have to make your gold do the work which means buying and selling on the market. That is the way it is in real life and that is the way it is in GW2. Spending time on less profitable ventures like WvW, PvP, or PvE is what people who enjoy WvW, PvP, or PvE do. People who enjoy making money spend their time playing the market.
If I was to sell an item that is only available from me in real life for a %200 markup, I would be charged under federal law for price gouging. It is easy to take the real life scenarios that are positive towards your point but disregard the ones that are unethical and wrong.
First, the concept of “price gouging” is not uniform. It is not illegal everywhere and it is defined differently everywhere that it is illegal.
Second, since you are the sole provider of said product, you cannot be a price gouger because there are no other sources of said product available to set the market value. Whatever you set your price to be is the market value.
Third, all resources in GW2 are infinite, and the TP is gamewide. This means price gouging is completely impossible in game.
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There needs to be established market values for everything in the game.
Not dictated by the players who have free reign to price gouge the playerbase.
Price gouging runs rampant with high end items to the point of ridiculousness and makes the rich only richer.
Now we get to the crux of your point, you are jelly.
If you want to make the most gold you will need to invest.
Sure you can make gold, but it’s not comparable. TP Flipping is the way to go, you can GRIND cof p1 but soon that will be stopped.
You talk about investment, what about investment into the game? Being good at PvP and WvW nets you nothing and we’ve already discussed PvE.
Obtaining a precursor for example is blind luck or having to pay TP Flippers over inflated prices for the privilege. Where’s the legendary in that? Nothing.
Inb4: Don’t like the system around TP Flipping, don’t get involved. Sure, but your missing the point. GW2 the game of spreadsheets? Please. TP Flippers have too much power over the market as it is.
You are however right about the game should be fun.
Time is not an investment, it is an expense. If you want to maximize your gold per hour you have to make your gold do the work which means buying and selling on the market. That is the way it is in real life and that is the way it is in GW2. Spending time on less profitable ventures like WvW, PvP, or PvE is what people who enjoy WvW, PvP, or PvE do. People who enjoy making money spend their time playing the market.
Wayfarer Foothills – Hangrammr Climb (skill point – place with giant wurm from 1st norn personal story) a lot of ravens.
This is a good one because they respawn pretty fast. I also found the fort just south of the Nentor Waypoint in Lornar’s Pass to be really good. The rats respawn almost instantly because killing them counts for the renown heart.
I think the concentration of wealth issue could be a real problem. Let’s assume for a minute that the consolidation of wealth increases the price of what you call “luxury” goods. (I’m not sure that it does, so this may be a false premise, but lets go with it for a minute)
For most people, luxury goods everyone else calls the end game. So by inflating the price of the end game items you are pushing end game rewards further out of reach of the “normal” players.
Guild wars 2 was original set up that these end game items were suppose to be the thing that people work towards once they completed the main content. They were the item to grind for, the reason to log on. However, as the price of these end game rises against what normal players can afford or realistically save for, they give up.
Instead they cry out for some item that is easier to get but still allows them to feel like they are progressing. Thus is introduced time-gated stat progression.
One of the few mistakes that I think John is making with the economy is assuming that the price of the luxury good doesn’t matter.
I think they know that the luxury good market is being impacted by wealth concentration. They are looking to add new Legendaries in the near future which may be their answer to the issue because as you pointed out, luxury goods are the end game content in GW2 and if end game content is unobtainable the number of players will decline.
So were reduced to becoming TP Flippers to make gold. GW2 the game of spreadsheets…
You have a lot of options to make gold. If you want to make the most gold you will need to invest. No one ever got rich digging ditches.
The point of the game is to have fun. If you equate “most gold” with having fun then you need to adjust the way you approach the game and get into the TP flipping meta.
Inflation occurs when the currency volume increases and purchasing power decreases in order to balance the two (keeping the midpoint in a relatively balanced place).
In a game, currency volume increases the fastest in the first year (as all the new players are building their characters and doing quests, etc.) and spikes during content releases (when the number of players is peaking). At all times though, there is a constant influx of new currency from players playing the game, but especially from farmers who are focused on maximizing their time to currency conversion.
In order to prevent these sources of new currency from creating unmanageable inflation, games insert “gold sinks” or things for which you pay gold that have no asset value (essentially, where money is deleted from the game thereby removing currency volume). In GW2, the largest by volume is probably the Trading Post fee. Other examples include the Commander title, repair fees, and any soul or account bound items that cost gold.
Blaming the Trading Post for inflation is about as incorrect as possible. No currency is ever created in the Trading Post, rather existing currency is traded and some of it destroyed. Farmers get nerfed because they cause inflation by creating new currency too quickly which causes inflation. Trading Post flippers won’t get nerfed because they provide a valuable service to the economy, not just in deflating the currency but by also helping to quickly normalize prices.
In reality, the only real complaint that can be leveled against Flippers is that they are concentrating wealth. If this was the real world, that could pose a potential stagnation problem, but this is a game in which infinite gold and resources are available to everyone so the only downside is that luxury items (Legendaries and their component parts) are probably overpriced.
Cash them in, 10 at a time, for Zephyr Supply Boxes.
Open the boxes to get recipes.
Use, Sell, or Hold (and later sell) the recipes.
My guess is that they will likely make a return at a later date (the Sanctum and some of it’s related content) but it is so easy to get the scraps I wouldn’t hold on to them (unless they wind up in the new currency wallet).
My understanding is that there will be permanent account MF and consumable MF.
The more permanent MF you add, the more you have to add to reach the next 1% increase (diminishing returns).
The boosts from salvaged gear would be the permanent MF while the consumables would be the food/potion/booster/guild flag boosts that are available now.
I finally got the 2500, after 46 games…
Whew… now I can get back to doing other stuff I actually like.
The upside is that you made approximately 4.6g from doing all those runs. Not too shabby, even if it was annoying.
I agree with the OP’s premise that the Candidate Trials are not fun. The fact that it can be completed does not make it fun.
I anticipated a Tower Defense style game where a wave is defeated followed by downtime where you can bunker up followed by the next wave.
Instead, we get mobs to kill, then more mobs to kill, then more mobs to kill, etc. It is boring at best and aggravating at worst (when the mobs aren’t killed fast enough).
Since the reactor is still present and since the Asura have technology designed around recording and retrieving data, why would we need a fractal to find out what happened at the reactor?
The Fall of Abaddon makes sense as a Fractal, since those are designed around historical events of the distant past. The reactor is easily something that we could be looking into right now as a dungeon.
I didn’t anticipate a 1:1 ratio for the new MF system. I would think that having 100% MF from gear on one character would translate into about 5-10% MF for the whole account when salvaged.
My Kiel progress marked 1/2 for the first one and stopped counting after that.
You can redo map completion as often as you want… you just have to delete the character between runs.
Same with personal story…
I think that ideally, MF items should have a 100% chance on salvage to drop the new MF consumable that permanently increases your account MF stat.
I’m not sure if the code allows for upgrades (jewels, infusions, etc.) to be detected for salvage purposes but I would think so.
All the rest can be completed in far fewer games of their respective minigames. Either the designer just has a huge ego and is pushing players into playing it far more than they normally would want to, or they have no idea what they doing and don’t understand their own scoring system and thought the average player would get triple digits per match. I’ve never seen anyone score triple digits.
That’s probably because surviving does not reward points. If you want a high score, see one of the many Southsun Survival tips threads (I’ve also already posted a list of tips for getting triple digit scores).
You need to be aggressive early and die as soon as the grace period ends.
While I do agree that the point threshold is higher than the other minigame, it isn’t so large that it would be a burden if you are playing for points.
Just remember that surviving nets you NOTHING pointwise unless you are the last man standing. I do think that when they make the game permanent, they should reward a set amount of points (say 20) to every living player at 1 minute intervals. This would reward survival which the game’s name implies to be important (even though it isn’t).
EDIT: Here’s my tips from the other thread:
Tips for getting high scores without being good at the game:
1. The first 2 minutes allow infinite respawns. Ignore rations and go for weapons/arrows and just KILL players (5 points for a kill and 1 point for each hit). Use weapons or headshots on players who are trying to scavange (and who thus aren’t looking at you).
2. When the grace period ends (or if you can’t find any more weapons/players), make your way down to the ship (the north part of the map) and scavenge a lot (1 point each). Don’t use your rations as you want to die here. Once dead, the motes from your scavenging should still be up, grab them all for 1 point each.
3. Respawning motes appear on the road from the bonfire camp down to the southern camp and over to the broken bridge. If you can’t find a player to haunt, keep moving up and down these roads for the motes for 1 point each.
4. Haunting a player can pay out a lot of points. Use the #1 ability IN FRONT of a player. When they walk into the white ring you will teleport to them and get 2 points. Your other abilities cost more motes and therefore should not be used unless you know you can get a kill with them (i.e. the player you are haunting has low health and NO rations).
Use these tips and you can easily outscore the living players (I know I do frequently) and be done with the achieve in no time.
My only complaint is that a 10 year celebration is not a “Jubilee”. That term specifically refers to a 50 year celebration of some kind.
Remove your ego, keep your players in mind. Thanks.
I suppose it never occurred to you that perhaps they did keep the players in mind?
You only NEED 6 achievements for the meta. They added enough achievements for you to get the meta without doing a lot of things you dislike. If you dislike getting 2500 points then that achievement was not added for you, it was added for other people who like Southsun Survival.
What I’m getting from this thread is that you believe that options that you do not enjoy should be removed and only options that you do enjoy should remain. ArenaNet is going in the opposite direction (thankfully) and adding more options for getting the meta which allows players who prefer all types of gameplay to have a better shot at the meta.
I like the idea of simply adding 1 initiative to the cost of each ability for the duration of the chilled effect.
This will result in chilled having a similar negative effect on thieves as on other classes without punishing the thief to the point where they are instantly countered by chilled status.
I’ve had more key drop as loot than I have had from map completion. I always get the useless low level transmutation stones.
Historically speaking, governments usually spend between 35-60% of their budget on their military/peacekeeping forces simply because those agencies have the most employees (and require expensive equipment). My guess is that Lion’s Arch is primarily funded through a sales tax on imports (it has already been paid before it gets to us), income taxes for residents, property taxes, and/or by taxing the Black Lion Trading Company.
Also, the Lionguard primarily guard Lion’s Arch and the trade routes from the capitals to Lion’s Arch. They do not cover a very large area at all whereas groups like the Seraph defend the entire region of Kryta. The two are not an apples to apples comparison.
The BLTC is efficient, profitable, and well managed.
The Lionguard is in constant need of my assistance as they are poorly trained, ill equipped, and incompetently managed, all while receiving the largest portion of the Lion’s Arch budget.
Sorry Kiel, but I’m going with the guy with a proven record of success.
Tips for getting high scores without being good at the game:
1. The first 2 minutes allow infinite respawns. Ignore rations and go for weapons/arrows and just KILL players (5 points for a kill and 1 point for each hit). Use weapons or headshots on players who are trying to scavange (and who thus aren’t looking at you).
2. When the grace period ends (or if you can’t find any more weapons/players), make your way down to the ship (the north part of the map) and scavenge a lot (1 point each). Don’t use your rations as you want to die here. Once dead, the motes from your scavenging should still be up, grab them all for 1 point each.
3. Respawning motes appear on the road from the bonfire camp down to the southern camp and over to the broken bridge. If you can’t find a player to haunt, keep moving up and down these roads for the motes for 1 point each.
4. Haunting a player can pay out a lot of points. Use the #1 ability IN FRONT of a player. When they walk into the white ring you will teleport to them and get 1 point. Your other abilities cost more motes and therefore should not be used unless you know you can get a kill with them (i.e. the player you are haunting has low health and NO rations).
Use these tips and you can easily outscore the living players (I know I do frequently) and be done with the achieve in no time.
(edited by mtpelion.4562)
Wow… I feel like I shouldn’t have to do this but apparently I do.
There is no such thing as “GW1 Lore” or “GW2 Lore”.
There is just “GW Lore”.
Both events are of significant interest to an actual lore fan because they both contain new lore.
It’s pretty much how real life works though…
Except this is a game, we come here to have fun, slay monsters and get lost in the fantasy world, if we wanted something like real life, a game wouldn’t be the place we would look.
You can have fun, slay monsters and get lost in the fantasy world without being “A God Walking Amonst Mere Mortals”, so your argument is irrelevant.
It’s pretty much how real life works though…
GW2 is designed to allow you to tweak your class to fit your playstyle.
If being tanky helps you clear content because that is how you play then go ahead and spec yourself that way.
DPS is not king. Being alive and contributing is.
Healing in GW2 is more about keeping yourself alive rather than healing the party. It is not intended that you should be doing so much party healing that your party does not need to rely on their own healing skills.
Don’t think of yourself as a healer, think of yourself as a support player. Healing is just a small part of the support role. You also provide buffs that make the dungeon easier for everyone.