Guild Wars 2

YES! Backstab should have a cool down of 20 seconds as well as have it’s damaged reduced in half. Likewise, rapid fire should be able to target 3 enemies, and explode when each arrow hits, with 100% crit chance. Oh, and every arrow shot should cause daze. This would definitely put thief and ranger on an equal level.
In reality, revealed should be 1 second shorter and death blossom should be changed.

I feel that thief should have a full 5 weapon skills for empty off hand. Something utilizing your hands in union with your weapon. For example, with only main hand dagger, you could have some sort of choke hold move that links into a high damage, single target attack with a small stun.
Now, for my own personal dream, if you have no off hand for dagger, the entire dagger set’s skills. All five skills are turned into throwing dagger skills. I personally think that would be very cool, but it is highly unlikely.
Instead of warhorn, it should be torch. I feel like the torch should be implemented. Maybe some sort of access to burning and stealth.

Hi! I play thief (p/d build for three years now) and have an engi (fully geared in rabid/dire gear) that I play occasionally for a hiatus from the single target domination that is the thief. I feel most Condi thieves nowadays are all crap, but that is most likely because I know the nuances of the class. Bombs are your best friend. You can keep away any thief by dropping that nasty little fire bomb. Be willing to switch out of bomb kit without dropping all of the bombs, something I have noticed many engineers are reluctant to do. Your pistol can stack more conditions than they can, and they have worse Condi removal. When they enter stealth using SR or blinding powder or heal, throw up some blocks. That’s how I kill me, and that’s not how my thief dies

Thief – Always and forever

Thief WvW Zerg is viable through venom share+Short bow, small group is good for obvious reasons, and PvE is super easy. I have solo’d all kinds of champions and the easy access to blinds is invaluable

I would just like to put this out there, I have played Condi thief (non-perplex) for about a year and a half, so I was on of the few pre patchers.

Don’t under estimate Kaineng. We have a chance, just no one gives us credit…

BulletNG.7069:

Add WvW Reward Tracks!

Here’s to hope!

TOO HOPE!!!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Oscuro-s-LRB/first#post3948773
This is a power p/d build I prefer. Much more involving, and offers good burst that can be controlled. I urge you try this build as it is very entertaining and MORE than viable. (I have 1vXed with it as well as won almost every 1v1)

Well, with all this arguing over who’s Condi ticks for more while you stand there drinking your margarita, I will offer you a more active, involving play style that doesn’t include letting them hit you to damage them, or standing still while your condis go to town.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Oscuro-s-LRB/first#post3948773
This is a power p/d build. I urge you to at least look into it! It is still more than viable after the frog damage nerf, and has high sustained DPS and some decent burst (not as good as Backstab, but close). This is a rare build but is very effective. Again, I urge you to try this build. I have successfully used it in COUNTLESS 1v1’s and a decent amount if 1vX’s.
I hope you enjoy it!

Maiday.9028:

Teon.5168:

smithkt.8062:

Teon.5168:

Kaineng Server…
Yito
Hardtankz
Steel Juggernaut

EB, and the other various borderlands depending on who we’re up against for the week. I haven’t been in EotM enough to know who are the best leaders.

There are a couple more that I am forgetting I am sure, but those are the ones that I have run with lately that have been the most fun/effective. (As well as being patient and willing to answer questions from players that are truly trying to get better in WvW)

We actually have quite a few good commanders in Kaineng,
I’d add Thorin Graf, Kingofnight, and Dangleon to this list.

There are others that only tag occasionally when needed and do a fine job as well.

I think all of these guys are patient for the most part and I have learned a lot following them.

Bonus is if you get Yito on team speak he may start singing.

Except for Kingofnight, who I have run with some this week(and he was very good, especially with the very small zerg we had a couple nights), I haven’t had the pleasure of running with those other commanders, yet. I have also run in some pugs that don’t have an official commander, but have been very fun to run with.

And yea, I was on last week when Yito started singing in the zerg Steel Juggernaut was leading……hilarious as heck!!!! He likes to do falsetto renditions of the songs he is listening to, atm…..lmao! Everyone on TS was cracking up after awhile instead of talking strategy/directions/asking questions……

Well, the cool thing is i can Sing in TS and still get stuff done -Yito

Kaineng has great commanders (even better roamers). And, believe it or not, that Yito story isn’t the strangest of Yito.
HOWEVER, I must say that Ajax Blue is deffinetly our best commander, you mouth breathers. Ajax, why did you leave you were the greatest player In the game, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US! (Only Kaineng players will understand the rfrence)

You’ve played thief too much when you have nightmares about a 2k Backstab.

No joke, runes of divinity got a buff. Every other stat other than ferocity/crit damage was buffed. I roam with these and have 2.5k armor with 2.2k power, 232% crit damage (4asceded trinkets, the rest exotic), and 18,300 health. I still get 5-7k back stabs consistenly. With food it gets better. With stacks, even better. I noticed very small change from the “nerf” with these runes equipped, and honestly love them.

Siege Raizer-The enemy border land.
Why?: He doesn’t worry about his people having supply, he brings it for them. He places siege that is immune to damage (WTF so OP!!!) and it is almost built because of his dolyak. Don’t even get me started on that dolyak. That thing wrecks kitten up! I’ve seen it just stare at a wolf and the thing instance downs! (Might have been a thief because stealth OP). That dolyak is so OP I’ve seen it face tank a Condi regen warrior BEFORE THE HEALING SIGNET NERF.
Combine that stupidly OP godlike dolyak with a charr that solos towers like their nothing. Not just that, I’ve seen him just eat a necro’s signet of spite (because we know how OP that kitten is) and just one hit perma down that necro through the most op mechanic in the game (Death Shroud…extra 30k hp OP). I swear to you, I’ve seen him launch fireballs out of his kitten and explode a stealths PU mesmer. That’s possibly the most broken build in the game! Just WTFOMGGTFO SIEGE RAIZER A BEAST!

Jitters.9401:

Chewy.9263:

With the same reasoning, i can go afk in the field and come back 10 minute later and see a dead zerg at my feet?

Seriously though, stealth and evasion are the two core mechanics of thief gameplay so of course they are going to have access to it. Please leave your QQ elsewhere. This can go for pretty much everyone else that complain about thieves.

Thank you and good day sir!

You do realize I play a thief almost exclusively in wvw right? I spend most of my time roaming solo looking for solo roaming and dual roaming builds and kill them.

Yesterday I solo’d a necro/engi team, thief/engineer team, thief,ele,necro team, thief/necro team

and myself with a same thief build friend killed a team comprised of an engi/necro/ranger/warrior/ele and an upscale thief (which doesn’t count).

Edit “I did lose a fight to two shatter mesmers and a stun warrior”. That was definately a bad fight to get into.

What other profession has the capability to do such a thing? None.

I love to win, but going back to the character comment that one thief player made…. I am all for fair play, so compare me to someone like himself and others who want free wins. The lack of character is most assured not my problem.

Reveal should be changed to 6 seconds.

I play a thief main. Have since launch. But for about a 5 month period I played necro. I 1vX’d with my necro just as effectively as my thief. I have warrior and guardian friends who can 1vX, and a ranger guildy who can 1vX. Thief isn’t the only class that can.
Revealed at 6 seconds is ridiculous. I’m sorry if you have troubles with stealth thieves, or dislike the stealth mechanic, but it isn’t as OP as you seem to think, and if you were at all decent with stealth, you would know this. Any good player can counter a thief. Doesn’t matter on the class. You seem to think that our main source of Condi clear, our only real defensive aspect other than high evades, and our primary class utility is broken because it makes us invisible. I garuntee is we were visible but invincible instead of regen in health, people like you would not irrationally complain so much.

There is one thing ranger can beat everyone with, spirits. If you run a spirit regen build and are very good with it, you can be a major support, as you can out regen regen warriors, provide AoE burning, and other things. However, a warrior an do this almost as well with more Condi dps. However, never compare yourself to a warrior because warriors are stupidly good at everything.

If WvW mega servered, I would probably quit, no joke. I transferred from Blackgate to Yaks to Kaineng. We are possibly the least zergish server in the entire game, and it is amazing. If they mega servered, everything would be massive blobs. GvG wouldn’t really be less effective as everything would be just a massive wall of people from each three colors that just film the map with people. It would be disgusting.

2 chests in a few hundred levels across different characters, all before the merge. The drop rate for wvw is terrible. They should make the SMC boss give the same drops as a world event in PvE. Make it once a day, and give a special chest. That way more people come when SMC is being raided. Ontop of that, give the normal chest. Then give champions from keeps a better chest than the ones in towers. Keeps are harder to take, but all we get is a little bit more silver/karma.

@Panic: i have run defensive variations of this build in several different ways. I posted a more attack oriented one because I have found success with it against experienced players. I have tried a 2/6/6 variation and it is defensive but I find I enjoy the attack oreinted version more. The build is completely up to you, as I have seen your videos and you find success with your variation, and it is great to see another advocated of p/d!

Edit: Also a 0/0/6/4/4 dire pistol build is very hard to kill. I have played that build or a long time, before p/d was very popular. It is much cheaper than perplexity too.

This has been a long time bug and is very frustrating as it stops attacking during the middle of the chain. Other races pump out damage with this skill, but since it stops so soon on an asura, you tend to only get 3-4k from the chain. It diminishes the value of the skill. I know for a fact other people have this problem, and it is a long standing issue. Will this be changed?

Yeah, it annoys me. It only makes it good for reflecting projectiles, you get in very few hits in reality.

@ryanza: I can’t really say, as I do not have a full set of Celestial, it’s the only set I don’t have. It possibly could be, if you have a set of celestial, then by all means, try it out, I’m very interested in how it would effect the build. Remember that builds are guidelines, not rules. Feel free to take your own spin on it in whatever way you want.

(I’m probably going to craft celestial gear now and try that, as I hadn’t thought of that as a possibility)

@Emi: the survivability is lower because you don’t spec into SA like you do with a normal Backstab build, although you do have range which, IMO, makes up for that. Like I said, the learning curve is high, but once you learn how to play this build effectively, the survivability is higher than a Backstab build.
(Except for zerker rangers, you HAVE to be the first to attack a zerker ranger)

panicbutton.1053:

I just came back from testing it to all holy hell. I’m convinced that it’s a useless trait coupled with the rest of the power lane. I even tried a might stacking S/D build and the killing time for S/D is very slow. I’m not out to make comparisons, but I always compare new builds to my own power p/d build. Maybe I’m more used to power P/D but investing into power for S/D cripples the hell out of S/D thieves. The extra power is literally 200-300 more damage.

Edit: You’re better off investing into critical strikes for S/D imo. More damage to be had through the critical strikes lane.

You run p/d power too!!!!!
It’s great to see another one of our rare kind!

Possibly mesmer runes to get another 33% from daze. This may be just enough to get in the final hit unless they dodge. The duration will not be long enough, but they can only move so fast…

Keep playing thief. The learning curve is high, but once you understand the class there is literally nothing you can’t do. I mean nothing. It is one of the more difficult classes in the game, but once understood, it can 1v1, 1vX, small group roam, solo towers, solo keeps, even Zerg, contrary to what many say. I command on my thief and I am ALWAYS the last one to die. You can spec thief for anything, it just takes knowledge of how the class works.
For example, I have a perma regen tank build on my thief that out tanks regen warriors. How many people imagine a thief doing that? Not many, but if you know the class and game well enough, the possibilities are endless.
Now something to keep in mind. I have played thief and only thief since Beta. So I learned the game with everyone else, there wasn’t really anyone to turn to for help, and, IMO, this helped me learn the game even better. Also, it means I have tons of experience, so mastering thief does take some time.

If you run with assassins armor, you can get 100% crit chance, which is cool. It boosts your dps a ton even with the recent nerf, and has the same sustain as berserker gear. People discredit it, but it is awesome, especially with Sigil of fire or air.
Just use full assassins armor/weapons and berserker trinkets/back piece. Sigal of accuracy is a must, you don’t need stacks because there is no point of going above 100%. Worth a try if you have the money

Azure Prower.8701:

oscuro.9720:

Yeah, the thief is still fine to me, backstabbing is not more, but that is completely okay with me tbh. Also, it is possible that the thief short bow build may be better now because of some changes, I will keep you posted

Do tell. I love short bow. While testing out some builds in WvW. I got completely wrecked by a thief using a short bow. But not sure how they did it. All I know is they use some of the DA and Trickery trait lines. They hit like a truck using disabling shot and cluster bombs whilst their bleed conditions were also potent.

My thief build isn’t completely refined but it’s okay. I have two variants, berserkers ranged dodge build, and AoE rabid armor bleed and torment stacking build. I haven’t played it in a while, but with two sis gold, it is gonna be much better I think

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Oscuro-s-LRB/first#post3864235
^^^
A p/d POWER build that is very effective

TESO WvW equivalent is not as fun IMO. It feels kind okittenward. The map change would be a cool idea, but I like waypoints. There should simply be no “window” while it is being sieges.

It’s like running a dual short bow build. It is extremely fun, but not even a fraction as effective because no one knows we exist. It’s sad really, that stealthless builds get no love, but oh well.

Backstabbing is going to be far less effective. Te dos nerf is most significant to Backstab thieves. Builds such as: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Oscuro-s-LRB/first#post3864235 are going to be much more effective with all the chanes. There need to be some changes to the traits and runes, but oh well.

Yeah, the thief is still fine to me, backstabbing is not more, but that is completely okay with me tbh. Also, it is possible that the thief short bow build may be better now because of some changes, I will keep you posted

BACKSTAB IS FINALLY NOT AS EFFECTIVE!!! Sorry, I never liked back stab thieves as a person who has only played thief since launch. Now more builds such as the p/d power build ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Oscuro-s-LRB/first#post3864235 ) are more effective. Btw, a skilled thief playing a p/d power build is lethal.

You don’t even need revealed training, it’s been viable for a while. Check out my build thread, it’s seriously worth giving a try.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Oscuro-s-LRB/first#post3864235

Mine…increased. It went from 96% bonus to a 104% increase… I like it.

For team PvE, no. We are simply inferior to almost every class at condition stacking. However, for solo, our single target bleed sustain is AWESOME! We have easy acess to a gap creater that adds torment, and much more. Use a standard dire build with p/d and a 0/0/30/20/20 setup for maximum effectiveness. Use this SOLO ONLY!!! Not for AoE. For champion solos only pretty much. That’s really all it’s viable for.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Oscuro-s-LRB/first#post3864235
P/D burst build. More focused around sustained and constant dps, not conditions. Slightly less burst than Backstab builds.

@DecieverX: Rabid gear wouldn’t help. We have no on crit traits that proc conditions, like necro or engi. Dire would be far more valuable because you can have much more sustain in exchange for almost nothing.

What server are you in?

@Reverence: Solution to your problem of no counter siege:
As I stated earlier, an addition to either T3 walls or upgrading archers to knock down ladders would be a great way to help limit the usefulness of this, and make these upgrades even that more valuable. Also, with the ability to simply press F and destroy any ladder placed on a structure is a pretty good counter IMO.
If you really want new siege, it wouldn’t really be feasible to just add one siege weapons to counter just one other type of siege. It would be better if it was an upgrade on ACs or Ballistas.
As for the 500 siege thing, I’ve had another idea of building Siege Towers, which are frequent throughout history and medieval fiction. They cost 500 supply and you need 10 people to push it. It moves at half the rate of a golem, and is very difficult to kill. You would need to hit it with a trebuchet a couple times or a catapult a few times to destroy it. It is immune to ACs and only penetrating shot from ballista affects it. It hits walls, so cannons are irrelevant. It can hold 20 people inside. Destroying it downs 5 of the pushers randomly and insta kills all inside. Superiors can withstand more damage, but cost 1000 supply. The guild would be OP. They cost 1700 supply and areas of metal. Takes 6 treb hits or 12 catapult hits to take it down, but is virtually unbuildable. Of course, these cannot be transported to the inner of a keep in any way, and can be destroyed after having been mounted on a wall. They can also be re-used.

D/P trickery is a pretty common build. All around solid. I recently played with a very skilled guardian and it was fun, but I had to use the walk function very frequently because they are slow -_- However, I have minor experience with other classes. Bunker guard with d/p is good because you provide a late amount of blind and damage to help sustain your tank. For necro, the only other class I have experience with, throw on dire gear and run a Tabk Condi build and that works great. The learning curve is relatively low, until you are 2v5+ing.

Well, 100% crit chance is something I have achieved. Full ascended zerker trinkets w/ assassins armor/ weapons and Sigel of accuracy. Boosts you dps by a ton. A TON! With about 100% crit damage your dps is more influenced by frit damage than power at that point. I use it in pve with Sigel of fire for UNBELIEVABLE dos with the short bow’s AoE.

I have been thinking, for a while now, that siege ladders would be a great addition to the game. Before you dismiss this, actually READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE before commenting. Here’s how it would work:
Ladders cost 20 supply. If one man is carrying the ladder, it reduces speed by 50% and there are no useable weapon skills. If two men are carrying it, there is no speed reduction but there are still no useable skills.
When approaching a desired tower, you must find a targetable wall. When within range of the wall, you can press F to set the ladder. An unlimited number of players can climb the ladder while it is active. The ladder can be taken down and carried to a new tower to be used. It has 3 uses and must be taken down from the ground, not the top of the wall. It takes a reasonable amount of time to climb the ladder and only two people can be on the ladder at once.
Now, before you go crying OP, here are the down sides. A player on the wall of the opposing side can approach a ladder and press F to push it off of the wall. There is a 3/4 second cast time when pushing which can be interrupted, but must be done from directly against the ladder. Pushing off the ladder shatters the ladder so t can no longer be used, and gives fall damage to the enemy equal to 50% of their health, and they are knocked down for 3/4 of a second.
Also, to benefit the defender, the ladder obstructs all AoE attacks. This may seem insignificant to some of you, but is truly not. This means you can not blast an absurd amount of AoE at the top when someone tries to push the ladder off. However, it is possible to shoot them with physical projectiles, such as ranger knockback arrow or thief scorpion wire.
Also, the moment a siege ladder is placed, it puts up swords on a tower. This avoids complete ghosting of a tower where if flips without swords even appearing, and if they do, for only 10-20 seconds.
Finally, there are upgrades in which the archers on the wall, which currently aren’t very useful, can shoot ladders off of the wall. This would be a high end upgrade on towers and keeps that comes with raising guard level or patrol, whatever is the T3 upgrade. Or, ladders are not able to be placed onT3 walls.

As is fairly apparent, this promotes small group playstyles. This would help havoc groups to have an even greater role, and the need for defenders in every tower even greater. This process would be fairly ineffective for a zerg, however, as it takes time for each person to climb the ladder, and they cannot support more than two people. Additionally, using a ladder renders you nearly useless in fights, and makes you very vulnerable. This is why it would be more effective for 5 man groups because it is not unreasonable for two people to climb the ladder, but 40 would be.
I feel this would add new play styles into the game, such as in a long siege, sending people to another portion of the keep to climb the outer wall and defend the main zergs ladders, or destroy a piece of siege.

Here are my top choices, they are not listed by preference:
•Necromancer: Their Condi bomb is AWESOME!!! They Condi pressure and you provide your outstanding burst to finalize the fight. Make sure they are running full dire. They need to be tanky as hell because they get all the focus.
•Thief: Your fellow thief is awesome to roam with, believe it or not! They provide additional stealth, and confusion towards the enemy. When you have two people you can’t target, life is hell. The additional stealth is nice for additional sustain, as well as a ridiculous amount of blind getting thrown around.
• Engineer: When specced right, they can Condi bomb just as well as necro, and have great sustain and kiting abilities, making it easier to get easy kills. The engineer has to be very skilled at engineer for this combo to be effective.

From those three I would say the next best is:
(1). Warrior: possibly making #4 on the list, but the problem is there are so many noob warriors who you have to pull, it’s like always being revealed… Good ones would make the list though.
(2). Ranger: My server has some great rangers who can be tanky and supportive, but aside from the three that I know, rangers are always very difficult to roam with because they HAVE to stay far and you have to stay close. May seem like a good combo, but if the ranger isn’t extremely skilled at their class, it is usually not. The reason ranger is fifth is that I feel that a skilled ranger can out Condi clear and regen a warrior and guardian, while applying stronger AoE Condi clear and perma-regen continuously.
(3). Guardians: I put guard here because they are just far to slow. When they get into a fight they are decent but I haven’t let one who is so good at fighting that it outweighs the downfalls of their lack of damage. Overall they are not a good roaming class but they offer good utility and okay damage, putting them in the 6 spot.
(4). Elementalist: HIS DOES NOT APPLY TO GOD LIKE ELEMENTALISTS. Only the unbelievably good elementalist are going to be a top choice for me. Infact, an unbelievable lee would probably be my number one choice. Problem is I only know one and he usually commands. The average or even good elementalist are not bad by any means, pretty comparable to guardian, they just feel too self dependent and not group support when they run d/d, just a personal opinion really.
(5). Mesmer: I can’t give you a reasoning, I just dislike roaming with a mesmer. That’s it.

Keep in mind that this is based on opinion, so if you get offended, it has nothing to do with how good the class is (I.e. Mesmer is great, just simply don’t like roaming with them) or how you are, it is all personal preference!

Myth Shaia.4856:

oscuro.9720:

I went from Black Gate to Yaks Bend to kaineng. The unfair fight is the best fight! So, son, get your anti-war slander and go on back to PvE. Wvw is fine as it is. We play to win and conquer. We play for what it is, not what is fair.

The unfair fight is the best fight? Hour after hour, day after day, week after week…you see where I am going with this? How long before you change servers again? How long before ANet loses more and more players from the game? Trading on f2p will only hold so long…

The question is, do we still need WvWvW? I don’t think so, not in its current form, the game has moved on, megaservers are coming which will water down server loyalty some more. That it isn’t coming to WvWvW, is ANet hoping that this alone will strengthen server pride?

I have been on Kaineng for about a year now and I can assure you I am not leaving because 1) Awesome small group skill level (2) Community is very nice. Trust me, fighting outmanned is some of my favorite things to do. In season we have had zergs, but I just walk into a different BL when that happens.
As for mega servers, I personally don’t like them just to start off with because it is destructive to creating a server community, so every map will be like an overflow. However, for the people who wvw frequently, this will not affect us at all, only PvE. I don’t know how it will change WvW, but I am certain that either way, I will still love Kaineng WvW and it’s play style. It is competitive, and if you take it away, you will lose about 25% of the community who only play wvw now, including an approximately 15% for those who play it every so often because PvE will begin to bore them into oblivion. Taking out WvW will deteriorate the game MUCH faster than the normal progression of a game

Only a WvW player will get excited when they have to defend inner.

Only a WvW player has a non-zerker set.

NONONONO! I went to kaineng BECAUSE there aren’t people. It promotes small group roaming. I would probably quit WvW if not the game if it truly turned into Blob Wars 2: Blobs and Boredom!

Myth Shaia.4856:

quickflash.6314:

/delete thread

Sounds like you are trying to make WvW casual and not competitive. War isn’t fair.

How is WvWvW competitive? To may be 20-25% of the game population – may be – you consider it war, rest of the GW2 playerbase sees it as recreational and casual. War may not be fair but you wouldn’t want to compete in an unfair war either.

But thanks for the scathing remark…I should keep score…that would make it competitive yes?

I went from Black Gate to Yaks Bend to kaineng. The unfair fight is the best fight! So, son, get your anti-war slander and go on back to PvE. Wvw is fine as it is. We play to win and conquer. We play for what it is, not what is fair.
The only thing I would change is adding map changes weekly. You get 3 random borderland maps out of a pool of possible maps each week.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Oscuro-s-LRB/first#post3864235
This is a very good build that has equal damage to backstabbing without the reliance on 1 strike that can be anticipated.

Where so you buy ascended weapons/armor for badges/laurels

Come to kaineng. Problem solved of ques, and sort of outmanned.