4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.
We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.
They are communicating plenty on the issue.
Plenty does not mean 2 generic answers in a few forum threads or someone saying something in-game. Stop defending their kitten.
You don’t like basic PR answer; I think that this is the only way Anet communicate….
4) Communication. AKA The Famous Arenanet Ostrich Defense.
We got an answer of gayle at page 68.
We know that Ruby got called ingame.
last but the best: we have an amazing reminder of the situation on the main post.
New players having “only” GW2 would not have this content, it cost extra, yes? Or are new players getting living story season 2 for free as well? Is this baked into HoT?
One more free bonus …..why not, more newcomers will be incencitized to come
But remember: it’s a free bonus but only for new accounts.
That problem is exacerbated by the refund offered which includes a termination of your account and non-refund of gem purchases according to threads / screen shots on Reddit.
Come on. It’s was obvious that the core game would have an offer with HoT. Anet never say otherwise………..
From a legal contract perspective I would change this: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” to "Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game for new accounts created with this purchase) [emphasis added] ASAP. Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users. This opens them up to a class action law suit in the US, probably in Europe too considering the consumer protections.
FAQ is perfectly clear: It’s include in it. They don’t change the FAQ….
I can’t figure of why people are defending Anet’s decisions on the bundles, it’s like they want to be ripped off. I personally spend a lot on the gem store to gain items I want and in turn support the company. Since I started playing the amount I spent is probably more than a monthly sub fee. Which leads me to another question how many of these “white knights” actually support this game through gems? Cause as of how much I’ve spent on this game I have a valid reason to be upset when I know I’m being ripped off. This expac costing $50 for what they’ve shown and no character slot must be a late April Fool’s joke…
Neithermind new players are good.
The more they are; the less I have to pay to keep playing………..I mean the more the dev get money to devellop extra stuff that I can play……That’s good for us all.
I’ve been thinking the same think for a couple of days. If the base GW2 was TRULY FREE and WITHOUT VALUE it would be F2P right now.
No No……..Gw2 is free but only as an offer for new players. you can still buy it….ah no.
But HoT is still an expansion….it’s not a standalone because Anet say it is….
Veteran get the same deal than the newcomers HoT + the basegame.
Veteran have a amazing possibilities; they can link their account to HoT & keep all their advantages from their 3 years of playing: I mean lvl80, gears, Achievement.
They got:
– to play LS1 and newcomers can’t.
– LS2 for free and newcomers must pay.
– ton of stuff from dailylogin all past years.
And they also got ton of playtime from their 60$ these past 3 years.
So they only have to pay 50$ for HoT. After all they bought thing on the gemstore for the past 3 years but Anet doesn’t make money there….So they are not really founding the game now.
Seriously they get way more stuff than the newcomer on GW2.
How can they find that this a bad deal.
Agreed, though I thought entitlement would be a new player getting a FREE base game that I’m paying for via an expansion. Websters must have changed the meaning of paying for A + B and only getting B because you already paid for A as an entitlement.
Public education these days.
They doesn’t get the sense of the word they use or grasp the situation.
Even still. What like 8 million core copies already purchased?
if they truly planned for 2 million HoT copies… That’s only a 25 customer retention rate. Even less since they’re targeting new customers as well…
A company doesn’t even need good customer service to hit 25 retention… Oh, wait…
Not even sure what you mean here but old players got to experience the game for all those years and new players will never get to experience it like we did.
So what they get a free core version of the game. They still do not get the same thing we have gotten over the years even if it is free.
They still have to start from level 1 and work there way up to HoT yet us old players can jump right into HoT.
You agree that all of that happens by these players choices ?
They didn’t play the game by their own volition ?
Do I owe these players anything for my 3 years of playing ?
let’s see how things will be in 1 year from now:
old player paid 160$ = played 4 years of the game.
new player paid 100$ = played 1 year of the game.
sounds fair to me.
How many gems has the new player contributed to the gem store?
My wife buys gems and plays gw2. I don’t think you understand how this works.
My wife has spent more money on gems than a new player will spend on the game. Sot your whole “well you got to play the game.” argument is ridiculous as you can get. Especially if you consider I can not link it to my account and I get an extra account.
Also charging a play for the work they put in, is not a benefit.
Lot of anet defenders are really good at fallacy so don’t expect them to come with logical argument.
You also said I didn’t get anything for free which in fact I did get free stuff. They even have given away free black lion keys over the time. For all you know I could have gotten a black lion ticket out of a chest, bought a skin and sold it on the trading post for lots of gold.
Great for you.
Can you answer that in all honesty ? thx.
Whats old player played during 3 years ? GW2.
What old players want to buys ? HOT
What new players buy ? GW2 + HOT
What new players played during 3 years ? NOT GW2 by their choice.
Does the year of playing GW2 (NOT HOT) for older player has any relation with new player not buying the game before and playing to get stuff ?
I’m replying to you, not him. If you have something to say to argue against what I have said in response to you, or anyone else on this or another thread on the subject, then by all means try. If not, but you continue to disagree nonetheless, and try to press on as if I never said anything, then you are refusing to listen to and respond to reason, indicating that my time would be wasted on you.
Because you answer completely avoided my point yet answered my quote to him
. So i won’t bother either. I’m done running in circle.
I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.
That’s inherent to me investing my playing time to get it.
Or
Are you saying that I also bought my playing time to Anet with money?
Get it ?
Whats old player played during 3 years ? GW2.
What old players want to buys ? HOT
What new players buy ? GW2 + HOT
What new players played during 3 years ? NOT GW2 by their choice.
Does the year of playing GW2 (NOT HOT) for older player has any relation with new player not buying the game before and playing to get stuff ?
Say to me that it’s also the fault of 3 years players if 2 years players doesn’t have the same thing than them ?
I did get the game just a few months ago, and I ain’t even mad. it’s how things work, prices change all the time.
Am I going to be mad at the store because the jeans that I bought yesterday for 30$ are in sale 15$ today? I doubt it.
No; you ask a refund & buy it again. Bam you get 15$ back.
BTW answer that please.
Whats old player played during 3 years ? GW2.
What old players want to buy ? HOT
What new players buy ? GW2 + HOT
Does the year of playing GW2 (NOT HOT) for older player has any relation with new player not buying GW2 before ?
New players don’t get more for the same price. Old player got years of playing this game for it. New players will NEVER have that.
Yes, I already played HoT for 3 years.
Let me do some Index:
Whats old player played during 3 years ? GW2.
What old players want to buys ? HOT
What new players buy ? GW2 + HOT
Does the year of playing GW2 (NOT HOT) for older player has any relation with new player not buying the game before ?
I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.
That’s inherent to me investing my playing time to get it.
Or are you saying that I also bought my playing time to Anet with money?
You bought access to play the game for that time, and are not forced to buy the new version in order to continue to do so. Just like you don’t have to buy Microsoft Word 2014 to continue using the 2010 version.
That’s not the point. FALLACY AGAIN.
I paid my account. I played with it for 3 years. I earned what on it.
How the hell does this account in me getting a lesser deal when I buy something as the same time than a new player ?
For the $50 price tag of HoT everyone gets an account with both core content and expansion content included. Players with existing accounts are allowed, but not required, to forgo the newly purchased account, if they so choose, in order to link to the existing account.
The price someone paid for an existing account as much as (close to) three years ago is irrelevant to what is provided in the HoT bundle. The bundle provides exactly the same for everyone, for the same $50, with the previously mentioned exception that a veteran has an option not available to a first time buyer.
I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.
I don’t follow. Is there any other MMO that goes by this logic out there? Like, is it common practice to charge money, on top of the actual purchase, to keep your progress? Because, in almost two decades of gaming, I haven’t seen such an example elsewhere.
He’s cornered.
So to answer; He comes with fallacies after fallacies to try to jusify anet behavior.
I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.
That’s inherent to me investing my playing time to get it.
Or are you saying that I also bought my playing time to Anet with money?
It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.
The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.
Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.
This is the exact same situation here.
So tell me where the difference is.
If two people are paying for the same thing at the same time, and they are purchasing it from the same producer, they expect to get the same result.
Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.
Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.
So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?
And some people grow up, mature, realize that life is not always 110% always and absolutely uniform (or “fair”, but that is highly subjective and people take it to mean whatever the heck they want) and stop throwing the same tantrums that children do.
And just like that you end up with unfair business practice. Makes sense.
The anger voiced by many is not inspired by greed, but by moral outrage. This is illustrated by:
- Strong emotional reaction – morality is very much based in emotion.
(Greed is more calculating, and any outrage inspired by greed is merely staged.)
- Various accusations aimed at ArenaNet that paint them as immoral or evil – very moral terms.
(Greedy players would rather paint ArenaNet as cheap or selfish – very economical terms.)
- None of the angry players says anything negative about the new players who would receive a better deal.
(If they were greedy, they would be more envious of the new players.)
- Angry players demand an apology and rectification from ArenaNet.
(Greedy players would just settle for more stuff and not bother with apologies.)
My impression is that the sales managers at ArenaNet have vastly underestimated the perception of inequality that their pricing scheme evoked. ArenaNet needs to address this adequately, or their long-term reputation may suffer.
Oh, and the counterargument claiming that “veteran players are greedy because they don’t realize what they got over the past three years” is sadly mistaken. The thing is that all these players have already paid for that by purchasing the game in the first place.
Finally, why does the occasional price reduction in the base game not bother existing players as much as this deal? Because it is very typical of any product to decrease in value over time. A used car is less valuable than a new one. A three-year-old game is worth less than the upcoming next-big-thing-with-super-graphics.
Don’t bother trying explaining to them. i tried I got tired.
i will vote with my wallet.
No more gems purchase for me & I will wait the absolute lower price for HoT (if I ever feel like relaunching GW2 which I’m not even sure).
and when Anet provide some, I’ll make sure to keep them in mind.
for now, we know almost nothing about how many maps we’re getting, so you can’t argue we’re getting to few or too many. you can argue we_might_ have too few or too many, but we still don’t know either way.
Fine. Now if only people wouldn’t state assumptions as fact.
Both side are doing it: it’s tiresome & currently I’m against Anet.
I never said they didn’t. Also there isn’t two sides.
Okay I may have jump on the wagon there; Sorry for that.
But there is still is no proof how the biomes works with the map except a Anet employee word.
I think the first thing to do is to clean up the debate. find out what the issues are, and discuss them individually, in a reasonable manner.
This is calling for reasonnable debate over internet. Personnaly I’m done for.
I won’t buy HoT & I won’t launch GW2 anymore for a LONG TIME.
I was ready to buy the highest version of HoT at pre-purchase but i just won’t with these condition toward existing player And the current attitude of Anet to play hide.
I will wait for the Stream tonight to see If they dare to say something about the issue.
and when Anet provide some, I’ll make sure to keep them in mind.
for now, we know almost nothing about how many maps we’re getting, so you can’t argue we’re getting to few or too many. you can argue we_might_ have too few or too many, but we still don’t know either way.
Fine. Now if only people wouldn’t state assumptions as fact.
Both side are doing it: it’s tiresome & currently I’m against Anet.
so if we get 4 maps thats 12 biomes so 4 HoT maps potentially = 12 current maps in size ( depending on size). please get your facts right before sprouting this only 1 map bs ty
Did you see the biome verticality in action because I didn’t.
What you are asking for work in both way.
and since you mentioned the gem store. I got lots of free stuff on there as well because at times they give away free stuff to players. Maybe small free stuff but it was still free..
So now it’s only small free stuff not 2 years of content; we progress at least.
You also have to pay a monthly fee for wow so the freebies you got you actually were paying for.
A freebie to loyal customer is a freebie .
The fact that it was delivered for a subcription free game, a free game, a buy 2 play game doesn’t make it less of a freebie and doesn’t detract from the fact that regular customer feel rewarded for their loyalty and not discriminated against.
So what you are saying is unless you get a freebie from anet you won’t be happy?
I feel discrimated by a company as a loyal customer whereas newcustomer are considered better in everyway.
This is called customer relation and Anet is doing a poor job at it.
So what you are saying is unless you get a freebie from anet you won’t be happy?
They’re giving the entire core game away as freebie, the whole game! I want equal value or I’m not buying.
Delete your account, go buy the standard addition and start all over. Now you too can get the free benefit of becoming a new player to the game.
No need to delete to start over. I can apply the code as a new account but that’s not an expansion for my current account that I paid max dollar for.
The question is, if you are buying HoT – would you go for a new account or an upgrade and why?
Upgrade. I have so many hours in this game, it would actually take me over 2 years to get back to where I am now. 9 lvl 80’s, 4k+ WvW rank, 15k+ achievement points, Maxed every craft. So much more that I would never want to start over. Oh and 100% map completion, only on one toon LOL not sure I can do it for each of them.
Yes I did tell you why. I’ll even include some more to make you understand a little better. I got freebies for playing the game for over 2 years
I don’t need another freebie to make me happy. You said you won’t be happy unless you get a freebie.
You didn’t get freebies during these 2 years; you got Anet fulfilling the promises they did to players 3 year ago when they released GW2.
For that I rewarded them by playing the game, talking of it around me and being active on the cashshop.
It’s not another freebies to make me happy.
It’s a freebie that means than my money & attention to buy the expansion HoT is equal to that of a newcomer.
The question is, if you are buying HoT – would you go for a new account or an upgrade and why?
Upgrade. I have so many hours in this game, it would actually take me over 2 years to get back to where I am now. 9 lvl 80’s, 4k+ WvW rank, 15k+ achievement points, Maxed every craft. So much more that I would never want to start over. Oh and 100% map completion, only on one toon LOL not sure I can do it for each of them.
You also have to pay a monthly fee for wow so the freebies you got you actually were paying for.
A freebie to loyal customer is a freebie .
The fact that it was delivered for a subcription free game, a free game, a buy 2 play game doesn’t make it less of a freebie and doesn’t detract from the fact that regular customer feel rewarded for their loyalty and not discriminated against.
So what you are saying is unless you get a freebie from anet you won’t be happy?
I feel discrimated by a company as a loyal customer whereas newcustomer are considered better in everyway.
This is called customer relation and Anet is doing a poor job at it.
A simple point people don’t seem to understand is that the core game inclusion isn’t influencing the price in any way… it’s just something they threw in so new players that missed the previous sales aren’t stuck behind a huge paywall. They just got lucky to get the game at a lower price than others(free of charge in this case) the same way people got it for 75% less during the recent sales but nobody raised any pitchforks then even though they should have, according to the logic the complaining follows. The expansion itself costs 50$, you’d be paying that regardless of core game inclusion. Nobody is forcing you to pay extra for something you already have. Think of it as a 100% discount product you don’t have to put in your basket separately.
That’s two totally differents situations.
I already brought the game at 60$ & enjoyed it.
Then a new offer directed at new players comes they sell the game at 10$.
I’m not eligible & not interested because I already own it.
Now our situation:
I already brought the game at 60$ I played it for 5K hours. I’m waiting for the expansion.
Anet releases a selling offer for the expansion adressed to new players and existing players.
Except that the offer is amazing for new players and is a ripoff for existing players.
To me is like Anet says :
You are a newplayer you can have a freebie + the expansion.
You are an existing player, you are not eligible for a freebie. thx for your support.
You also have to pay a monthly fee for wow so the freebies you got you actually were paying for.
A freebie to loyal customer is a freebie .
The fact that it was delivered for a subcription free game, a free game, a buy 2 play game doesn’t make it less of a freebie and doesn’t detract from the fact that regular customer feel rewarded for their loyalty and not discriminated against.
There’s literally no difference. Its an incentive. You’re an existing customer for the cable company but they’re not going to give you the free incentives they give new customers and you’re an existing GW2 player, they’re not going to give you the free incentives they want to give new customers. Its the same thing, GASP!
Demanding a cheaper product in gw2 simply because “I’ve been here longer (while ignoring that fact that you’ve already gotten something out of your time, but hey that doesn’t help your point does it)” would be like you calling your cable company and demanding you pay less simply because you’ve been around longer. You’re an entitled brat in both cases.
Not it’s not the same thing for one simple reason:
Your case: it’s an incentive on a product that you already contracted & the offer is for new customer.
You are already a client for that product. They are not, thus the incentitive.
Our current problem:
The product isn’t GW2; it’s the expansion HoT. Neither existing player of GW2 or new player are player of the expansion yet
One group get an incentitive : the core game (that’s fine by me).
Other group get no incentitive & are supposed to fork more money to have a good deal. (that’s not fine).
Actually this one backfired on him.
Because when WoW did it (not exactly the same than with GW2).
They offered freebies to existing players that owns all add ons.
