Guild Wars 2

The million dollar question is…

“What does skill mean in gw2?”

And that is the problem.

Zelyhn.8069:

Well, let me just say again that I am not boasting, I am not talking about how good I am in map chat or at all, and this is not a personal matter.

I am talking about the reaction of the playerbase to a statement of skill, whatever the situation.

Almost everybody here fails to see that. I have seen countless interpretations of my words, and absurd assumptions about my actions and my behaviour.

I have even been compared to Hitler.

I am starting to think that the skill frustration of the community is not its only problem!

Since there is no quantifiable way to accurately determine one’s skill level, all you’re really saying is your opinion of your own skill level, relative, ofc, to you. The fact that he used a subjective term to classify his own skill level points to idea that, in the end, it really is quite subjective, to a degree. Sure people can say one is more skilled than the other, but to adamantly say that I’m a skilled player brings nothing to the table.

And the hostility, as countless people have said, is not to the statement of one’s skill level, but the actual saying it per se. No one is against skilled players. People are against boastful people. You don’t see people cursing their enemies when they get downed in 1v1 duels in wvw, because they respect them. But what are people against? Dancing on people’s corpses in wvw.

Downing them in 1v1 and small skirmishes = indicative of skill → nothing to get upset about.
Dancing on their corpses after a kill = indicative of one’s attitude → what the player base is against.

The problem with games like gw2 is that there are numerous facets for one to be “skilled” at in this game. And furthermore, there are no hard statistics or rubrics (yes, even in spvp) to quantify one’s skill level. You cannot say “Oh he’s of skill level 67/100, but at least he’s better than this noob who’s skill level 44/100”.

Ultimately, any statement of skill will always be an opinion, and depending on who said it and the context, can be interpreted in a variety of ways. There will never be a “factual” statement of skill in this game.

They probably got scared that there are some people who have the time and dedication to finish those things in a week or so, that’s why they made it very difficult for us to get.

what does this do? o.O

the prob is gw2 isn’t as sandbox-y as eve online. And what you’re describing is really quite similar to wvw in its essence. You’re essentially putting pvp into pve worlds. This is problematic for 2 reasons I can think of right now:
1.) pvp in a pve world is opposite of the kind of attitude and world gw2 wants to create. Notice that you don’t have to fight people for exp, loot and gathering node, these things scream communal and cooperative living. Putting pvp in a pve world only agitates the pve players, and makes wvw and actual pvp zones redundant
2.) You’re going to alienate people who play gw2 for a specific reason. Pve players get unhappy when their merry questing gets interrupted by a player from another realm, wvw players get unhappy coz they will lose a lot of wvw players, and even pvp will be more of a deadzone.

I do like the point you’re trying to make. However, instead of a Realm vs Realm thing, how about applying the same thing but in a PvE perspective (against an army that’s slightly more intelligent than your average risen)? I mean that the devs can create a zone that is in constant battle (tie-in to living story!) for a duration of time (maybe a whole month, with varying degrees of outcome), then a final culmination battle where previous victories and choices take into account. For example, let’s take server XY

All worlds will have a new map that introduces a new conflict, etc etc. There are a number of pve map objectives that you have to do. At the end of the day, a tally is made as to the number of objectives you have done, as well as critical choices made. At the end of each week, we will have a “turning point” battle, where the outcome will affect the final battle. These can be as varying as having access to certain key locations in the map, having artillery or air support, having server-wide buff, etc.

When I die, my armors don’t fall to the ground for the enemy player to come and pick up. I don’t see why supply should be any different.

@Kyven

Why is your boyfriend worth waiting for and not a Juggernaut/infinite lights/etc?

Your name is a poor excuse (pun intended) for an asura :P haha It’s not really an asuran name tbh. Btw, you have a karka on your leg…

My engy asura’s name is Boq Clumsyhands. He periodically detonates turrets prematurely, and explodes on his own bombs.

Generally, if you want to min-max, orbs are better. If you want to focus on your playstyle, runes are much better (not just for the stats, but the added bonus effects).

Actinotus.6410:

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Actinotus.6410:

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Jesus, three servers ticking for 400+

I can already see the guy at ANet going, “Uh oh.”

SoS was doing that for weeks in T4 as was Ebay in T5. It’s nothing new

Things will settle down after the weekend.

The problem is these servers weren’t so unbalanced before.

SoR was better off with JQ and BG, perhaps with TC replacing JQ, but certainly not SoS. Vizunah and Elona should’ve been in the same match.

And the lower tiers…

Let’s just enjoy the matchup. SoS doing fine.

We just took Stonemist…

And lost it 5 min later

RoterFuchs.9216:

Let’s try it this way: ANet said Guild Wars 2 would not be grindy at all.

They said nothing of the sort. From what I understand, they’re just gonna make grinding less… mindnumbing than standing in 1 spot for hours everyday killing the same mobs over and over and over again.

My grenades give vulnerabilities on hit. Should a percentage of the warrior’s 100b damage be attributed to me instead since I gave him 3-5-10% extra incoming damage?

You can always go to your home borderlands, respec, then log-out and you’ll be back where you are. I do this all the time if I have to respec. No waypoint fees, just the respec fee.

Fenrir.3609:

Unless you are running those dungeon paths multiple times each day or sriking out lucky with loot then it is unlikely to tally up to 30g+ (although I am not sure how much the bounty will be bringing in).

If you are running them multiple times each day, well that looks both dangerously akin to a form of farming and also boring beyond the eye bleeding level frankly.

Is 30g + a day doable? Sure, is it easy without actively trying to get it, lucking out (which isn’t statistically significant at all) or flipping items on the TP? Probably not, no.

The difference is that you do different things, instead of staying in one spot and kill mobs until your eyes bleed out. This, I reckon, is GW2’s version of farming: doing many different things that earn you cash.

30g a day I also reckon is highly unlikely. But even getting 5-10g a day (excluding mats) is reasonably doable with all the dungeon runs, fotms, wvw, world bosses, etc.

@pricer

RNG?

Well after getting my legendary, I stopped farming (and doing any dungeons regularly) completely, and just went to leveling alts or doing wvw. So far, I’ve gotten around 60-70g in cash, 80+ ectos and a few t6 mats. I think if you put the “farming” aspect out of it and simply try to play various parts of the game you find enjoyable, you’ll see “Farming” as less of an ordeal as it is.

deviller.9135:

If you consider DPS meter, try to play PvP. When you die, you will see “DPS meter” there, and you will be surprised, condition do 100 k damage to you.

I want this thing implemented in wvw, but it’s not really feasible given that you’re getting hit by 50 different spells in under a second =/

I think they allow us to farm, just not that much or for too long (DR). I think the way anet wants us to get our mats for whatever purpose is that we do a variety of different activities every time we log-in. We do a few cof runs, we do a few fractals, we do a few CS events, we do a few SSC events, we do the world bosses, we do a bit of wvw for the badges, etc. All of those things done incrementally can eventually lead to a lot of cakitten

hink the point they’re trying to make is to reward people for doing what they want to do, not because they HAVE to do it, but because they WANT to do it. Granted the rewards might not be as big or superfluous as manual or traditional farming, but the point still stands on their intention. I suggest if you really wanna farm, do stuff that you like doing and you’ll find yourself getting rewarded.

so… you farmed all of those stuff? There are alternative methods of getting it, ableit much slower than a farm.

@OP

How long did it take for you to farm up for all the stuff you have now?

IndigoSundown.5419:

penatbater.4710:

If a block feature with /inspect would be in place, what’s the difference then between that and pinging?

Assume for a second that a ping-all-equipped existed. In GW1 this was done through party chat. I think it would be done through chat in GW2 also. In GW2, parties can chat no matter where they are. Once someone joined a pug, they could be asked to ping all equipped no matter where they are. Inspect requires you to be close enough to them to click on their portrait and select inspect. For the initial check, this could be even more convenient.

It would not allow for “secret” inspects during a run (or at any other time). However, one could simply ask them to ping-all now and if the person took long enough to replace 13+ pieces, then I know what I’d conclude.

Ping-all gear is acceptable to me. Only because they’re building up on existing tools. ping-all is still vastly different from /inspect imo.

Scrambles.2604:

Ok. sorry it doesn’t have to be personal experience, though that would help your case. Because it’s my personal experience vs your personal inexperience.

I just can’t fathom how, /inspecting someone, in a way that doesn’t inconvenience that person or myself, in a way that the person being inspect may not even know it’s happening is considered so rude that it merits omiting the /inspect all together.

It goes back to permission and consent. /inspect has none, and most people feel a violation of privacy when their consent and permission isn’t given, not to mention feel disrespected. It isn’t a matter of them having anything to hide, it’s a matter of respect, of asking them first rather than assuming that you have the right to see it in the first place.

How will the dye’d weapons affect weapons with particle effects?

I can see it now… black sparkles coming from my princess wand

Scrambles.2604:

penatbater.4710:

Scrambles.2604:

penatbater.4710:

Scrambles.2604:

lol, why is it rude for someone to see what gear your wearing? It may be the case that i simply cant put myself in your mindset, but privacy and rudeness in regard to looking at someones gear, in a game about acquiring gear, seems pretty absurd to me.

Try walking down the street demanding people to tell you where they got their clothes and tell me if it’s not rude. Same basic principle applies.

Is it rude to glance at their cloths and notice what theyre wearing, if it doesn’t effect them?

Also, we’re talking about the application in a video game, where real-world factors may not be as applicable. It would be different if i could right click someone on the street, but well….i cant.

Not to mention, in the current state, where you have to ask someone to ping their gear, is pretty much exactly the same as stopping someone on the street and asking them. Not that that is entirely rude, but it could be inconvenient for either party.

/inspect ~ being able to see what people are wearing, their brands, when they were bought etc WITHOUT their prior knowledge or consent.

pinging – asking people what they are wearing, giving them the appropriate knowledge and consent.

That’s the major difference, methinks.

“demanding” someone’s brand of clothes on the street still requires consent to get an answer. I’m not really sure what you’re trying to do here.

I only use demand because there’s no way for humans to know what the other person is wearing (unless they’re living in a cosmopolitan city and everyone is wearing branded clothes so people can ascertain what brand that person is wearing). But my second reply is more accurate. The difference lies in consent and permission. /inspect provides no consent and no permission, regardless if you personally allow it or not. pinging gives the user the respect of having the option to allow you to know what he’s wearing.

But if the block function does happen in /inspect, then it will serve the same function as pinging gear, and therefore render the proposed change useless.

data.4093:

If we want an actual analogy here(not walking up to someone asking about their clothes)…It’s like asking a soldier if he is wearing body armor or a pillow in his shirt. Or like asking him if he’s got an automatic rifle or a bb gun that looks like one. Do you want to go to battle with a man using a bb gun pew pewing a dragon?

The purpose for asking what the person is wearing is another (equally important) issue. But the main issue they were discussing was the ethics in asking/knowing what someone is wearing, privacy issues not utilitarian issues.

Scrambles.2604:

penatbater.4710:

Scrambles.2604:

lol, why is it rude for someone to see what gear your wearing? It may be the case that i simply cant put myself in your mindset, but privacy and rudeness in regard to looking at someones gear, in a game about acquiring gear, seems pretty absurd to me.

Try walking down the street demanding people to tell you where they got their clothes and tell me if it’s not rude. Same basic principle applies.

Is it rude to glance at their cloths and notice what theyre wearing, if it doesn’t effect them?

Also, we’re talking about the application in a video game, where real-world factors may not be as applicable. It would be different if i could right click someone on the street, but well….i cant.

Not to mention, in the current state, where you have to ask someone to ping their gear, is pretty much exactly the same as stopping someone on the street and asking them. Not that that is entirely rude, but it could be inconvenient for either party.

/inspect ~ being able to see what people are wearing, their brands, when they were bought etc WITHOUT their prior knowledge or consent.

pinging – asking people what they are wearing, giving them the appropriate knowledge and consent.

That’s the major difference, methinks.

Tolmos.8395:

penatbater.4710:

If a block feature with /inspect would be in place, what’s the difference then between that and pinging?

Path 1 (with /inspect and block)
Player A: Can you unblock /inspect so I can see your gears?
Player B: No.

Path 2 (status quo)
Player A: Can you ping your gear?
Player B: No

alternative if someone does allow it

Path 1
Player A: Can you unblock your /inspect so I can see your gear?
Player B: Sure. unblocks

Path 2
Player A: Can you ping your gear so I can see what you’re wearing?
Player B: Here you go. pings gear

If the only difference is convenience… well, that’s not really a good enough reason. Add further the fact that pinging gear only happens in cof1 and high level fractals, I see no need for it.

Because if you don’t want to be inspected, you don’t have to be. BUT if you do want to inspect, you can still narrow down your search by just treating those who don’t want to be inspected as if they don’t meet the criteria to get into your group.

It’s a semi-win/win. A compromise, basically. Both sides get something that they want, though neither side is entirely happy.

So… basically it… uh… alienates people who don’t want to be inspected, on the hunch that their build might be wrong? That seems rather… unfair. =/

Scrambles.2604:

lol, why is it rude for someone to see what gear your wearing? It may be the case that i simply cant put myself in your mindset, but privacy and rudeness in regard to looking at someones gear, in a game about acquiring gear, seems pretty absurd to me.

Try walking down the street demanding people to tell you where they got their clothes and tell me if it’s not rude. Same basic principle applies.

If a block feature with /inspect would be in place, what’s the difference then between that and pinging?

Path 1 (with /inspect and block)
Player A: Can you unblock /inspect so I can see your gears?
Player B: No.

Path 2 (status quo)
Player A: Can you ping your gear?
Player B: No

alternative if someone does allow it

Path 1
Player A: Can you unblock your /inspect so I can see your gear?
Player B: Sure. unblocks

Path 2
Player A: Can you ping your gear so I can see what you’re wearing?
Player B: Here you go. pings gear

If the only difference is convenience… well, that’s not really a good enough reason. Add further the fact that pinging gear only happens in cof1 and high level fractals, I see no need for it.

Allow dps meters only for players starting at fotm lvl 40 onwards. DPS meters have no place in regular dungeons.

Did you guys ever consider that anet WANTS t6 mats to be that expensive? :o

/conspiracytheory

Villious.8530:

penatbater.4710:

ProxyDamage.9826:

Additionally you shouldn’t tell people how they play the game. Some people can only play a little every day. Others can only play a lot on select days. Forcing one method of playing the game in detriment of all the others is, again, bad design.

Maybe you shouldn’t tell how Anet should run its game then.

That’s right. They’re doing a great job at shooting themselves in the foot all by themselves. With the decisions month after month, sounds like pandemonium there. When the new MMOs hit the market, that’s when we’re gonna see how well they run their game.

Aye. I look forward to that day as well.

ErgoPhoenix.9784:

~DYE-ABLE WEAPONS
~Crystal Desert – Idk why, but I just liked it.

These two, and your shield! that shield looks reaaaaally cool =P

ProxyDamage.9826:

Additionally you shouldn’t tell people how they play the game. Some people can only play a little every day. Others can only play a lot on select days. Forcing one method of playing the game in detriment of all the others is, again, bad design.

Maybe you shouldn’t tell how Anet should run its game then.

Astral Projections.7320:

Is this possible to do this to get badges? Make a character, explore your own borderland and get 10. Delete and repeat.

Maybe for those who don’t want to fight, can they do this?

I tried this and its not really cost-effective. It’s really time consuming and you’re better off just making your normal alts and taking them to the BLs one at a time, one day at a time. JPs really are the best way to get the badges. But you can also get a few by leveling up your wxp. You get 5 per level and from 1-5 you only need 2000 wxp to level up so that should be a quick 20 badges.

They haven’t said anything about it, so the answer for now is no.

alcopaul.2156:

penatbater.4710:

alcopaul.2156:

People seem oblivious to the fact that between 2 players with equal skill, the one who has the better gear will perform better.

People seem oblivious to the fact that no 2 player will hardly ever have the same equal skill. People also seem oblivious to the fact that player skill across the entire player base will have varying skill levels.

but just stating the obvious bro. in an ideal scenario, the discrepancy exists between sucky gear and good gear – that one is sucky and one is good.

you could through the skill level card all you want provided that the gears are statless. but the case is not. numbers are numbers. high is high and low is low.

skill discrepancy can be gauged though if they have both the same gear and same build choices. the ones who kills fast and die less is obviously skilled.

I know and understand your point. It’s just that the ideal situation hardly ever comes by, and the status quo is far different from this ideal situation that most people have. And that’s the biggest problem. How can we theorycraft about an ideal situation when the status quo is not even remotely close?

alcopaul.2156:

People seem oblivious to the fact that between 2 players with equal skill, the one who has the better gear will perform better.

People seem oblivious to the fact that no 2 player will hardly ever have the same equal skill. People also seem oblivious to the fact that player skill across the entire player base will have varying skill levels.

Wethospu.6437:

When you have played the game enough and know what’s useful in dungeons it’s not hard to see which builds don’t work at all. If someone uses build like that then he clearly doesn’t know what’s useful.

For example shout-heal healing/precision/vitality hammer Warrior is definitely not needed on fractal lvl 48, especially when we asked for someone with damage.

I will concede this point. I think the only place where gear is quite invaluable is in higher level fractals, and cof. But people reaching lvl 48 fractals should already know that damage mitigation (toughness) is moot already since mobs hit too hard to make a difference.

Wethospu.6437:

Except you can detect the worst combination. Bad build -> bad skill/troll.

How can you know he’s unskillful even before you play with him?

Good build =/= good players. And having /inspect will not change that fact. The number 1 argument people for this inspect lies on the assumption that “all things being equal” or “player skill being equal”, then a better gear/build will be better for the party. This certainly is true.

But that’s their biggest mistake: making an assumption about people’s skills being equal, when in fact, player skill takes more into consideration in an efficient and successful run than any other gear. That berzerker gear/cookie-cutter build will not save you if you cannot dodge out of Kholer’s pull/spin.

You must realize that if that assumption fails, the whole argument falls apart. If we assume that player skill is NOT equal (and this is a highly plausible and realistic assumption than the opposite), how then does gear and build come into the equation? We have to consider various permutations factoring in skill, build and gear, where one might have one, but not the other, and so forth, and moreover, the varying degrees one has with skill or build or gear. Since there really is no way to inspect a player’s skill beforehand, or no way to create a reliable rubric for such, there’s very little /inspect brings to the table. Yes you know about player X’s build. But will that tell you if they are new to the run? If they are familiar with their builds for pve setup? If they know how to coordinate with other party members in using combos? Nope. But you know one feature that will tell you? /s or /p.

If it were some other game where player’s skill is less important, and gear is more important, then it certainly is acceptable to have it. But in this game, the focus is on the reverse, where you can have people in their level 35-40s finishing AC explo faster than another group of full lvl 80 exotic partymates.

And before we devolve into the adage that “gw2 pve is so easy I can do it in my sleep”, consider that not everyone is as “pr0” as you are, and majority of the people you will meet will probably be less skillful than you are.

Mif.3471:

penatbater.4710:

I prefer Mif’s score updates. it comes with cookies

<3

sooooooooo muuuuuuuuuuuuuch coooookies!

Actinotus.6410:

Tanthalas.1569:

Don’t forget the score updates for those of us that work the night shift!

Best place to look is here: http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/729

Even got the map now real-time updates.

I prefer Mif’s score updates. it comes with cookies

but but but… i AM Marshall Trahearne

Shun.9475:

After Seasoned wood, there is literally ONLY 1 item to craft, and that’s Gift of Wood. As a result wood has flooded the market and become pointless to own.

Will Anet respond and fix this unsensible imbalance, where higher tier items are worth less per unit vs their lower tiered crafting items?

well, the fact that there are more high level players than low levels, more people killing high lvl stuff than low levels… uh.. supply demand stuff.

Will they ever release a way to get it? :|

Scrambles.2604:

Bullies will use whatever tools they can to antagonize. They already thrive without these tools. That means we should deny legitimate players access to those tools as well? There are more reasons to use /inspect besides denying casuals entry into dungeons.

If you aren’t /inspected and you don’t wipe then obviously there is no issue. If someone /inspects you and says “NOPE! sorry no condition gear noob” then eff that guy! He doesn’t deserve to be grouped with you anyway. That is not a good enough reason to deny legitimate players access to more in-game tools.

Aye, bullies can even use Zomorros to antagonize other players if possible. The question is, why are we giving them the tools in the first place? Is the need of legitimate players so great that we would be willing to accept this evil? Would the harm it cause justify the good it brings?

Ratty.5176:

penatbater.4710:

balance alone would be a nightmare! I wouldn’t say no to this, but with the things on the dev’s plate, it doesn’t seem feasible any time soon.

It’s not at all about balance though. A free for all with no rules is just that, a free for all.

What it does allow is for a mate to go, “I have real problem with X class in WvW/PvP, you play that kind of build, want to pop to the arena and let me try some ideas out.”

Or a guild to go, “lets all go to a the Arena and play circle of treachery” (last man standing, normally very funny as what generally happens is the weak players team up on the strongest player, but you are never sure when they are going to stab their “compatriots” in the back.)

In other words, it allows the community to run fun events, without many restrictions.

In that case, sign me up!

Scrambles.2604:

If people were upfront with what they wanted from dungeon groups (like the current zerker CoF run) then it would be a non-issue. This is a “putting groups together” issue, not a /inspect issue.

What i am hearing is “I don’t want /inspect because it would lead to me being kicked from groups with people i wouldn’t want to group with in the first place.”

I feel like you should be supporting inspect, because it would be an obvious red flag as to who you don’t want to play with. If you join a seemingly normal CoF run, and the first thing the party leader does is start talking crap about your gear he just /inspected, then LEAVE! You shouldn’t have to take that crap! If it wasn’t for inspect he would probably just call you out for wiping 15 mins into the run. The way i see it, /inspect would save both parties that 15 mins.

You guys are so self-conscious about your builds and gear. This is an MMO, i don’t know what you expected but interacting with other sub-humans is part of the ride.

They’d call me out for wiping IF we do wipe. But if not? Why are you unnecessarily discriminating against me if you haven’t even seen me play? How sure are you that my build will cause me to wipe? As I’ve said, if you ask people in a nice manner about their build, chances are, they would respond. The issue is more of discriminating against particular builds even before they’ve seen my performance, giving bullies the tools they need to antagonize other players more, etc.

balance alone would be a nightmare! I wouldn’t say no to this, but with the things on the dev’s plate, it doesn’t seem feasible any time soon.

@scrambles
I think everyone and their mother has conceded the fact that if you join a zerker speedrun of cof, you’d better have the gear. The cause for concern applies to other dungeons, having the potential to devolve into what we have for cof at the moment.

@nikaido
I’ve already stated boon removal isn’t an eng’s strong suite. Null field is indeed awesome, but the problem is it has such a small radius, or a static radius that people don’t run into it to remove their conditions. I also like to have a condition-removal on demand (like a traited mantra heal for mes) for those clutch moments. Anyway, this isn’t a debate about eng vs mes. It’s not even a debate whether a build is viable or not (although that is part of it). It’s a debate, in its entirety, about the effects of /inspect would on the community.