Guild Wars 2

animalmom.1062:

You guys are kidding yourselves. This is a massive thief nerf any way you look at it no matter how they implement it.

U mean like the reveal nerf? No worries, Anet will just revert it a patch later, as usual…

thieves, because whenever they get a nerf, they get it back the next patch. I bet mug will be back to its old form next patch, just like reveal.

Mif.3471:

Unlike most other (all?) servers TC has a WvW militia culture, not a WvW guild culture.
Case in point: Commander tags for guilds only (i.e. “don’t follow us”) are frowned upon on TC.

sure, but the opposite is true, I’ve been told twice to not follow certain group because they are running havok team. I dunno if that’s a legit reason, but just come across as big ego.

fadeaway.2807:

Let’s not be rude, or Jon won’t come back :p

What do we have to lose? More nerfs for an iconic class that’s unique to the Guild Wars franchise?

Anyone able to use one of the build that’s more friendly with a GS as main weapon?

nyckolag.2394:

Archer.1658:

Shatter, front line. People get scared when the clones blow up in their faces. It’s a lot more fun than sitting in the back playing glamour.

This. Sometimes I feel like a thief, popping in and out of stealth and using my clones to distract. This playstyle is definitely a lot more fun than a long-range mesmer.

Having said that, I use gsword, s/t, so I still have that long-range playstyle open to me.

I play shatter as well, but using GS main and staff as alt set. I am thinking about replacing staff with switching to sword / focus, tot sure yet.

thanks to all the people that did some test, for a game developer to come on here to make a statement that has proven to not have much testing behind it is pretty unprofessional.

I am going to have side with some of the conspiracy theory of Anet wants people to play less Mesmer, and make people choose other classes instead.

TigerDragon.4037:

rchu.8945:

JonPeters.5630:

This skill is in fact doing full damage in our testing. The bug seems to be damage floater related where not all floaters appear on this skill.

Jon

thanks,

can you (or anyone else) explain this a bit clearer? I dont understand what this “floater” is…

I believe what he means is the floating text that indicates the amount of damage done by an attack… If I understood him correctly, the attack is doing the expected amount of damage, but it is not displaying the damage with a “floater” indicator accurately all the time.

thanks for the clarification, I am a bit skeptical on this, but I think we are in a no win situation if Anet is sticking to what they stated. No one has done any recording in combat log or videos to since this bug has been going on for months, and Anet will just stick to the “it’s a visual error and mob is getting the same damage as before” answer. He said, she said, we will not win either way…

JonPeters.5630:

This skill is in fact doing full damage in our testing. The bug seems to be damage floater related where not all floaters appear on this skill.

Jon

thanks,

can you (or anyone else) explain this a bit clearer? I dont understand what this “floater” is…

CrassBippy.4619:

you mean the skill is more in line with other classes now and you hve to try harder for those kills? Sounds rough… Everyone who wasn’t maining a Mesmer/engineer knew it was OP in wvw. The ones playin this chars knew it too, so don’t get all up in arms over it

and we also know stealth is OP, but guess what, Anet reverted 4 sec reveal to 3 sec just because they love thieves so much/ Biased much?

see this closed thread by dev:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Mesmer-illusionary-zerker-Bug-Report/page/2#post1696781

It seems they think other game bugs are more important than iberzerker issue.

EPIC FAIL by Anet developers.

Please fix this.

Anet, do you guys have something against the Mesmer class? Fix this and stop nerfing the class.

Anet needs to communicate better and hire better programmers for sure.

Thrumdi.9216:

The problem with confusion is not that bad players attack through it. But that good players have to stop attacking.

In an action MMO, skills that make you not attack should be few and far between. That is why there is no long duration crowd control in GW2.

Confusion should be at the level where it doesn’t totally kill someone who attacks through it. Instead, it should be a risk factor where someone has to decide to attack, burn condition removal or withdraw.

The only question now is where is that level.

confusion is a big part of being Mesmer, almost every build and class defining skills use it. To nerf it to this extend without giving something, and with some bugs like GS iberserker’s damage magically “toned down” and still not fixed, you have to understand my Mesmer players are making a scene here.

Attic.1562:

ParaldaWind.4523:

DevonCarver.5370:

I love bacon too. And, we are hustling to make this a reality. Just remember to listen to George Michael. “You’ve gotta have faith.”

I appreciate the response, but I’m confused as to what the roadblock is… I’m admittedly not a programmer or anything, but it can’t be too hard adding a new merchant to WvW spawns.

I imagine there is some opposition from the PvE team because of some notion that being able to get ascended stuff from WvW would be ‘too easy’ and thus devalue the PvE endgame content they’ve been pushing.

See: ‘welfare epics’.

I would expect that when they finally do some to WvW they will require an absurd amount of badges, some gold, and possibly some sort of new, rarer, badge as well. Oh, and you’ll only be able to buy the rings for at least 6 months. The earrings probably won’t get added until at least two more ascended pieces are released and the necklaces will remain under the province of the laurel system.

Edit: So, scrap the additional currency idea. But perhaps you would enlighten us as to what some of the obstacles blocking the path are Devon?

yea,

WvW players always get the shaft.

Odaman.8359:

Good change imo, boons are too strong atm anyways. I can’t say I would’ve argued with boon strip instead, but that doesn’t make this one bad. It’s a GM trait, they’re supposed to be strong. Hopefully others get boosted like this in the future

stealth is also too convenient as well, I think ANet should add a “stealth hate” GM trait for some classes, so with that when the player lands a hit on thief in stealth, it does extra damage and pop them out of stealth instantly.

RyuDragnier.9476:

They really just need to make stealth work in a specific way when it comes to exiting it. If an opponent blocks or evades a skill the thief tries to hit them with while in stealth, the thief is thrown out of stealth with the revealed condition. However if the attack misses due to Out of Range, the stealth stays intact. This would fix the main complaint with thieves.

why would stealth remain if the thief misses due to out of range? Thieves should know better about their skill range, if they choose to attack randomly, they should be punished for it. Stealth is already a big advantage, how much leeway are you going to give to thieves to remain in stealth?

Cottage Pie.6215:

I’ve never actually heard anyone complain about confusion in map chat! Theives, all the time; 3 hit 21k damage combos, perma stealthing, stealth spamming, etc, but confusion, honestly I can’t recall a single instance.

I don’t even play mesmer, but I feel sorry for them as confusion was readily countered.

yep, and now thieves get the reveal time reverted to 3 sec gets some love for S/D build, great job by Anet.

good, something those classes that will be nerfed tomorrow can focus on for the next nerf bat to hit…

Doomdesire.9365:

Wait wait. Let me get this right. You wanted to nerf an entire class that was generally worse then yours just because one of your skills got nerfed?

Let’s be real here. We get it. Your confusion got nerfed. I don’t think it should have been IMO, but that’s no reason to start throwing out more nerfs.

Also, a great counter that I’ve seen work well is “shattering” the clones as a thief uses CnD off them. Great tactic. I’ve seen mesmers shut down thieves entirely with this.

it’s a typical vicious cycle MMO, a group of gamers kittened and moaned about something, the recipient of the nerfs will get back at them for something else. To add insult to injury, we have a group of developers that dont have a clue on balancing classes in WvW, if you cant beat the system, you join it. Hence I will “+1” on supporting those looking for blood on the next nerf. Thieves getting buffed and reveal reverted, that’s just too much love, it’s beyond comical. So I wish nothing but the worst to happen to that class.

i like the suggestion, now only if Anet will actually pay attention to read it…

zaxon.6819:

ill put my confusion gear next to my greatsword in the garbage.

why would the GS be garbage?

with the incoming patch of nerfing confusion and restoring stealth reveal back to 3 sec, do you really think Anet devs understand or care about WvW? I personally dont think so.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Another good proof that anet balances for casual noobs. I quess they buy more ridiculous virtual clothes from the item mall.
Yah, condition mesmer is now useless, as is the condition engineer. Whatever, I only play thief nowdays anyway. Simple* to play and more effective in 90% of situations that doesn’t involve a zerg.

To compensate, they definitely should reduce the thief bs damage by half. Not to mention that kittening utterly ridiculous skill called shadow refuge:
1/4 cast time, 10+sec stealth, heals allies, stealths allies, is a dark field, 60sec cool down without traits.

*I often watch Emmerdale while rolling against 2 on my condition thief.

exactly, fight nerfs with more kittening and moaning. If Confusion really gets nerfed, let’s all gang up and kitten about other classes abilities, that’s how it always goes in MMOs. You dont get balance, you get revenge by getting other classes nerfed to be equal to your main class.

Pizz.3698:

Engis will keep one of their tears for you Eles.

no tears from me, I am all smile

swinsk.6410:

I think the mug change was stupid. I think thieves needed more burst to deal with bunkers…

However, they chose to go with the S/D route to deal with bunkers slowly…

Seriously, how is mugging someone supposed to give you health? Doesn’t make sense to me at all.

99% of the time I use steal on INC to get my burst off in spvp. So how is 2k hps supposed to help me while I’m already at 100%?

not the worst patch, not the best

very happy S/D builts get some love, so sick of all the Dagger built out there.

penatbater.4710:

KoKaLo.7539:

Divinity runes are also a choice if you got the money. Trade a bit of damage for a bit of survivability while keeping critical damage high

div runes are out of the question for me x.x Waaay too expensive and I think learning to survive is another important skill to have as a mes. :p

Alright so with air runes, what sigils would match them? For GS and sword/focus (since i wvw a lot on my mes)

if you have the trait that dodge to create a clone, you should consider adding a sigil of energy to one of your weapon set. I run GS/Staff (with GS as my main), I have the sigil of energy on my staff.

It’s always nice during the honeymoon stage of transferring to a new server, let see if those guys will stick around. Look at Kaineng, they couldn’t win T2 and all the big guilds left for something else.

Furajir.3815:

Iv’e run this exact spec/nourishment combo for the past 4-5 months, except I am double bow, and use heal as one, since I’m not using sword for the spring.

I use a mix of cavaliers/soldier/knight and zerk. With food bufs I have just under 20k health, 45% crit, 75% crit dmg, 3000 armor and just above 3k attack.

hi,

do you mean LB/SB as your weapon set? If so, care to share a build link with your gears and traits info?

Thanks.

I’ve only been in the guild for a short while, but these guys are real fun to be with. Great leadership, lots of guild activities, friendly and helpful (sometimes sarcastic but funny) members will keep you entertained most of the time while in game.

If you are looking for a good balance of PvE and WvW (even PvP), give these guys a chance and apply, you cant go wrong with them.

Kasama.8941:

ShoeMoney.5249:

Kasama.8941:

It’s not very hard to be good with that build. Kill a target in 2 seconds, or run away. It doesn’t get much easier then that. Personally it just feels too easy for me. I love to use pistol/pistol as my main weapon set, with Blinding Powder and Hide in Shadows as stealth triggers, while also stacking poison with shortbow.

Well I am happy for you that my build is “too easy”. I really had to work at it.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that there’s no learning curve to it, just that it’s very easy to play, compared to other builds. There is a learning curve to all builds, and no matter what build you play, you still have to learn the in and outs of other professions. But just because you didn’t have knowledge of other professions, or your own build, before, it doesn’t mean that the build is difficult to play, in general. You even say it yourself; “its not hard and with the BP/HS combos you get to land a free shot and not loose stealth”.

Try playing with pistol/pistol, shortbow, or sword/pistol as your main weapon set. Once you can’t rely on that repetitive stealth from your weapon set, it’s a whole different game. And one that’s a lot more fun, in my opinion.

no need to further explain, some people are just sensitive. It is true that S/P is one of the easier build to play thief with, and I agree S/D is a bit harder to become good at it.

brickforlife.1364:

I haven’t been able to find much sword/dagger builds but I love the infiltrator’s strike as well as flanking strike and it’s really fun to use. I’m struggling to find a build for it because search bar comes up with months old builds or ones that don’t quite work out as the description says it. If any of you thief pros can recommend me a build or some opinions, combos or tactics that’d be super.

(Don’t convince me out of sword, I know it’s pretty mediocre but I’ll die before I do dagger/pistol backstab)

EDIT: I’m looking for for PvE and WvW

hello,

I recently asked a some question regarding S/D build on guildwars2guru forum, and I received some pretty decent info, here are some of the opinion:

User Phenn’s reply:
15/30/0/25/0 – Which, for any thief, is a really balanced loadout and makes the SB worth more than pure mobility.
0/30/25/15/0 – Which provides the stealth benefits toward Tactical Strike without sacrificing Feline Grace, but suffered in the recent patch.
10/30/0/0/30 – Which is, perhaps, the most powerful S/D build now that Revealed is longer. It makes the Sword’s AA hit like a semi (+25% damage when Initiative is full), allows for a ton of porting mobility (you’ll use Init solely for mobility and evasion), and makes Steal a formidable in-battle weapon (Mug, plus Fury, Swiftness, Might, Vigor, boon-strip, and Daze).

S/D is really no longer a viable stealth-daze-lock build, but can be very fun to play when you get your shadowstepping down. The Sword hits hard in general, and positioning takes the damage very, very high. It’s a great skirmishing set for smaller encounters, harassing capture points, and picking off strays. The root on InfS (Sword #2) is great for locking down escapees, and for holding opponents in AoE’s, etc. Played right, you’ll be incredibly hard-to-hit, and do a noticeable amount of consistent damage.

User NotKMoose’s reply:

I run complete glass cannon S/D build with alot of valkyrie and an ascended PTV amulet..

I have a base of 45% crit chance and 96% crit strike damage, and a 16ki ish health pool.. usually at 17k with food buffs.

Acrobatics tree works out very well with the natural evasion of S/D. To be honest with the removal of culling and reveal, I hardly ever use stealth unless its from my heal or to completely escape from an encounter.

Try out 10 30 0 15 15…

Traits are mug, 5% precision to vitality, extra crit attacking from behind, and executioner, fall damage trait in acrobatics, and thrill of the crime for the burst.

Playstyle is basically open up with sword 2, steal, sword 3 maybe if I need to dodge or just autoattack and keep porting in and out from sword 2, get your immobilize and one to two hits in with the sword and then port out. I move around ALOT, tons of dodging and dragging your opponents around… dropping a port, running in a direction, have them chase you, port back.

I will playing around each of those situation in WvW, I figure to give myself 1 to 2 weeks to decide which one i will stick with.

draner.5213:

ensoriki.5789:

We need another Off-hand.

I’ve already put my vote in for torch, a less sneaky condition damage offhand, though offhand sword could be a decent idea as well.

Also fully on board for rifle, all aboard the weapon train! WHOOT!

that would be great to allow sword / sword combo, provided they put some thoughts into the 4 and 5 weapon skill slots.

Doomdesire.9365:

I always find it weird how people complain thieves are hard to catch.

I don’t think they understand the concept of a thief…
Let me say this again
A thief
Thief
Thief

For those who don’t know what a Thief is, he is someone who strikes, and can escape easily. What does a thief do in real life? Steal and then get the hell out of there. 7/11 robbers don’t stay there for the police to come, do they?

sure, a thief can escape easily, but it shouldn’t be capable of going invisible so easily. Perhaps Anet should’ve added some in combat speed boost, but the current version of popping in and out of invisibility is what’s not right about the class.

NotOneToRidicule.2340:

My guild just took 4 lvl 80’s and a lvl 63 into AC explorer path 1 and could not get past the Champion Spider (mostly because of the little spiders)…after running this dungeon many, many times. Wait, before you say we’re built wrong…we’re all accomplished in PVE (with 100% world completion, daily farming in Orr, and able to hold our own in WvW).

IMO, it has become way too hard since the latest patch on February 26th. I feel that this game is becoming too frustrating. Since there are other options in the MMO world, I’m thinking of branching out and trying others because of this. Is anyone else feeling as frustrated as I am?

there are many post about this already, and it’s always the same debate, the PvE prima donnas telling everyone else learn to play, and the rest arguing with them about the new AC is too hard. Personally I side with the people that think the change made were not needed and in a way that’s not suitable for a beginner dungeon aimed for level 35 as the starting level.

Aberrant.6749:

It’s not intentional… they’re working on it… they just won’t know how to fix it until they figure out what went wrong with zerker. I do miss my mes’s izerker as well, but staff isn’t bad alternative until they do. It does suck to be more limited with weapon choices for the time being… and there are things on all classes that need to be fixed… and have needed to be fix since launch. These fixes should be top priority… I agree.

How do u know Anet is actually “working” on this bug? This is an intentional nerf, imo.

Mind Smack is my mesmer’s name.

I see more thieves in WvW than PvE now, I do 2 FOTM dailies a night, most common are warriors, guardians and mesmers.

I think 10 people for AoE damage is about the right number.

lordmitz.2047:

tbh the classes all bring interesting things to dungeons, but people get so entrenched in the opinion that 4 warr+support is the only way to do things that its hard to shake for them. i’m not sure what would break that general consensus at this point.

-edit- forgot to mention that i do agree though, more interesting dungeon fights would definitely be a boon, instead of the zerk smash n’ dodge that most of them are already.

the 4 warr+support is not just for the hard content, it’s also for easy farming CoF p1 groups as well? Try gw2lfg, every other class takes twice as long to get into a group…

Milennin.4825:

In Guild Wars 2 I can create my own build, join any PUG, and run a dungeon without problems while playing the way I want to play my character.

really? Then why should I take twice as long (if not longer) to get into a CoF P1 group, because my main is not a zerker warrior or mesmer. Have you got kicked from any FOTM level 20+ groups because you are a thief/ranger/eng (those are not my main, but I’ve been in groups where the party leaders remove those classes)?

LordByron.8369:

naphack.9346:

….

the issue is..

Take thief..

You need positioning, you need to carefully plan your opener, and then you need even luck maybe to hit target in the back.

So you basically need skill to max your opening damage, and that PvE wise could be even balanced.

Now lets bring that to pvp.

Lets think to an hypotethical thief class that can stealth, have 50% chances of 1shotting from stealth but if he misses he is dead.

Now seems even a bad class, it requires skill to set up the kill and luck to connect.

But when it happens this simply do not take in account target ability….you have the same chances to kill a newbie or a pro player.

If you see that as a fight of numbers could be balanced….but its not for the target….he has the right to influence the outcome of the battle…he is not a NPC!
This is first issue.

Then we have dev stetement about PREDICT thief attacks….
Again its all OK if the thief is a NPC with a fixed pattern.

Its not, its a PLAYER that can FAKE a stealth usual chain attack (or escape) making it again a matter of LUCK and not skill.

Classic example is thief using shadow refuge and running away with other stealth skills.

So despite this situation could be even non viable or strongly against thieves, its not balanced…..
Its just randomic at best, but takes away the ability of one of the 2 contendents to influence with skill the outcome of the fight.

This is why thief says “hey its hard for us to use our spike damage on you so its balanced!” while Others “hey how can be balanced if i cannot REACT (not predict)”.

So nerfing is not the right road to go, changing its the one….

P.S: same concept works for 100nades see above ^^^

P.P.S. example…if i was a dev i would make most infamous Attacks to deal dmg as a % of opponent health….so they would have the same effect on tanks and GC.

+1.

I especially agree with the comment about that dev that made few post, favoritism much?

Rengaru.4730:

Shemsu.8721:

If you see him use CnD via the very obvious animation, your not predicting, your reacting

…because you are predicting a combo.
Why would you dodge a random, ranged CnD if you don’t expect the thief to close the gap with a shadowstep.

I swear, the thief subforum is becoming more like hotjoin every day, with random thieves poping up spaming the same arguments over and over like a Heartseeker.

lol,

that last statement is awesome.

Woaden.9425:

Wanted to share my first Thief video.

Build and songs in the about section. This was from one session. Currently collecting some group footage with friends to publish at some point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixHVvabjl3k

nice, glad to see video with sword build, Unfortunately youtube is blocked at work so I cant see it now… Would you mind linking your build & gears?

+1, agree with all the points made by OP. Story mode dungeons offer no incentive for people even want to do them, and explorable modes needs more balance on difficulty and better scaling of rewards vs efforts and time. My biggest issue is with WvW, while last patch made some improvement, it still feel like that part of the game is just an afterthought from the developers. WvW needs more bigger maps and variety. Same map design for all 3 borderlands is just pure display of laziness.

buttski.6135:

you’re from a professional esports team and can’t figure out some good wvwvw builds?
uuhhhhuuummm…

+1. ROFL.

Bazeleel.8219:

The rest of you seriously need to just calm down. I meant in no way to offend anyone or call the thief community bad or w/e you think I am calling you guys. I apologize that the statements I made where taken personally or the wrong way. That was not my intention, it was simply to try and get some feedback on the WvW specs in the GW2 thief community so I can better understand what works and what does not work.

Isn’t this what “pro” e-sports gamers supposed to do themselves? Level up the toon and try out various builds to fit your style or role on your team?

Lokheit.7943:

I was checking the Ranger forum to see if I could find more information in the upcoming Ranger buff mentioned on gw2guru interview, and I found this bit that is basically the same we’ve been telling all the time to Thief haters, only that this time comes from a dev (which gives him lots of credibility) and a dev that is usually found on Ranger forums (so not particularly a Thief lover or someone who doesn’t wants his profession to be nerfed).

Very wise words and as I said it’s basically the same we’ve been telling for ages to all those players screaming for Thief nerfs instead of trying to learn to counter one of the less versatile classes in the game and probably the most predictable of them all:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

VitalSuit.1980:

Thieves as well? I hope this is only for pve and not pvp because thieves are the last thing that needs a buff.

Most thieves don’t make it out of the lower tiers because you can mitigate them very easily. As a ranger I shut thieves down all the time who don’t use venoms, especially if you have something like healing spring and Lightning reflexes. One fixes stun, one fixes immob/cripple, and then it’s just dodge rolls at the right moment and CC to shut them down. Also bring wolf for f2 and stay nearby when thieves start doing their stealthy bit, and then be ready to watch them flee in terror.
That of course means their build options are highly limited, and when that happens people can hard counter you more easily.

The changes for rangers coming in this next patch are a step in the right direction for them. I am not part of that team so I won’t be announcing any of the changes unless told otherwise.

And he’s able to counter thieves with a Ranger, one of the professions in most need of a buff, so imagine how well one of the strong classes can counter a Thief when the player learns to predict them instead of calling for nerfs without even trying to guess an strategy to beat a super predictable Thief.

Thanks Robert Hrouda for this, we really needed this from someone whose opinion wouldn’t be dismissed as if he was trying to save his class from nerfing.

so Anet is based on class balance on 1 vs 1 now? LOL.

I am surprised to see people still play S/D. Dont get me wrong my thief alt is S/D, but I just keep hearing from other thieves D/D is the way to go in WvW. It just seems D/D gets more kills and have more synergy with the class itself…

JonPeters.5630:

This is absolutely an issue as the game matures and we are working on ways to make running story mode with someone worthwhile even if you have already run it so players just reaching these dungeons can more easily find groups to play with. It will probably take some experimentation before we find the right motivator.

Jon

any update on this?