Guild Wars 2

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Maybe the new legendary shield will be a purple misty Clock engine showing the real world time ? That’d be awesome.

or in the shape of a giant butterfly and leaves a trail of rainbow butterflies…

I bet it will good for the first few months, then other classes will cry and moan until it’s nerfed to the ground. The Mesmers become food for other classes again…

if the new skills and traits allow Mesmer to become not hard-countered by thieves, sure I guess I will be happy. But I doubt it would be the case. Thieves might even able to steal alacrity and completely destroy us, as is the case now.

thieves probably will able to steal alacrity, then we are back to where we were again, dead to even faster thief attacks.

Weez.6315:

Kitta.3657:

Clone Death is the most passive gameplay and unskilled (imo). Robert’s arguments towards wanting mesmers to use their profession’s mechanic is on point. I disagree, it is a good thing to be getting rid of.

this

all u have to do with those kind of builds is summoning 3 illusions/clones go stealth and dodge a bit. The only good thing to have those as enemies is, you can just walk away and they cant pressure u at all

If turret engies can allow to play that way, why shouldnt Mesmers?

Jedge.3619:

Mental Torment/GS training/Power block all seem really strong
I really like how they added mirror into a variety of traits
Manipulation range + IP will be amazing
Still no reliable condi removal in trees other than in inspiration
The trait I’m most excited for is blinding dissipation.
I think the illusions tree could be improved with illusionary invigoration.

Overall, I’m extremely excited with the mesmer changes

Power block revised? Will it work against Thieves and revenants?

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

I’ve given up PvPing as a Mesmer, solely due to thieves. There is no more completely one-sided profession matchup in the game. Stealth is a broken mechanic we have absolutely no way of dealing with. It’s a joke even to the devs, but they’re sure as heck not doing anything about it.

+1, exactly my feeling. Mesmer against thief is so unfair and I dont see Anet doing anything about it.

I mostly play medi guard now, at least I feel like I have a shot against most classes, unlike Mesmer.

Menaka.5092:

From this other interview

Ten Ton Hammer: Where Elite Specializations are concerned, it seems slightly unfair that some only get an off-hand when some get a two handed or main hand weapon (thus more skills). How are you making this appealing for professions who only get an off-hand?

Jon: Fair doesn’t always mean equal. It’s fair because we’re trying to make sure that they all get a lot of really cool things and they get a new way to define their profession. Like we did with the original professions, it doesn’t mean that one-to-one trying to make an equal number of skills one-to-one. To give an example with engineer, we made what felt like it would be like to be an engineer.

The other thing too is that the weapon is just one component of what makes a spec what it is. Weapon skills don’t define the spec. Just like the new healing skills, the new elite skills and the new traits, they complement it and altogether build the spec out. Because of that we feel it’s fine if it’s an offhand, a main hand, or a two-handed weapon, it’s just part of what defines what that spec is.

I’m somewhat less hyped than before.

I feel the same way, and I’ve been saying many are too optimistic about what changes they will be making for Mesmers in HOT.

Although specialization seems promising based on the info, remember other class and meta builds could be even more powerful before, meaning even if Mesmers’ build options are improved, they might still pale in comparison to other classes’ options with specialization.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Shifts in meta usually happen to either counter the previous meta or overcome weaknesses of the previous meta. For example, the condi meta some time ago was the reason why there’s so much condition cleanse in every comp to the point that condition-reliant compositions are no longer effective. DPS guards are steadily replacing mesmers in the meta to overcome the mesmer’s weakness to thieves.

Mesmers have not been in the meta for a while…

Jasher.6580:

rchu.8945:

Exedore.6320:

Mesmer
- Halting Strike unable to crit
Cap burst potential of stack-able instant damage.
- Mirror Blade no longer unblockable
High damage attacks should be blockable.

are you freaking kidding me? Mesmer is out of the meta currently, is hard countered by thieves? You might as well remove Mesmer with your suggestions.

We are hard countered by Thieves. But Thieves aside, shatter is a very valuable and viable build.

many other classes have more than one “viable” build in sPvP, currently there’s mTD condi shatter for Mesmer that’s gaining some recognition, but beyond that there’s no other “viable” builds. The point is Mesmer and few other classes are not in meta, and to make sPvP better we need as many classes can compete in high tiers of the competition. Thieves pretty much is a better option than Mesmers and Rangers at that level, and that needs to be addressed.

HairyPig.3795:

Hi. I’m completely new to this game, but I’ve had a lot of experience with MMOs in general as I’ve pretty much played each and everyone sometime or another, a few of them over a longer period of time :P

I decided to finally buy GW2 when I saw it was on sale, and I’ve heard that the PvP is pretty awesome so I thought I’d give it a try. So far I’m loving it, and I decided to play a Mesmer. But after talking to some people, both in a guild I’m in and RL friends who play this game, they all recommend me to play something else so I can get the “hang of the game” instead of playing such a complicated class as Mesmer.

Are they right? And if they are, do you have any good classes to recommend as “beginner” classes?

for PvP, I would not bother with Mesmer, especially for beginners. Not to mention one of the most popular class in thief is a hard counter to the Mesmer class, no matter which build you go with.

Exedore.6320:

Mesmer
- Halting Strike unable to crit
Cap burst potential of stack-able instant damage.
- Mirror Blade no longer unblockable
High damage attacks should be blockable.

are you freaking kidding me? Mesmer is out of the meta currently, is hard countered by thieves? You might as well remove Mesmer with your suggestions.

have fun fighting thieves in sPvP

yea, Anet is pretty biased against Mesmers, shield OH = LOL, and probably the skills will be bypassed by thieves like the GM trait power block…

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Mesmer – Create more viability for amulets outside of Berserker

Slight reduce cooldown ,recharge rate and cast time on Mesmers skills so it has a chance against thieves.

someone.7485:

Mooncow.6847:

someone.7485:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

someone.7485:

Seriously people! Actually communicate before a match.

This is like saying “Hey, if you ready up, the match will start quicker” – which might be desirable, but how many times does it happen?

In the time I have been playing, the odds that you got people communicating at the start, telling roles and builds can be count on one hand…
Sad? Maybe, but it is the truth…

Also, as much as I like try to stay unbiased on the forums, the numerous amounts of “Daily Engineer” and the obvious growing popularity of the build are starting to get to me more and more…

The poor communication is my point. I use turret engi to get peoples attention because turret engi thrives on a lack of communication. It seems like most people are just reading the thread title and are actually missing my point. I find you stand a better chance of winning if everyone communicates before the game starts. It is difficult to communicate during the game, but you can use the mini-map for some fast communication.

You use turret engi because you want to win. Don’t pretend otherwise

I never implied anything else and I personally see nothing wrong with wanting to win. Winning is fun, and the way I play turret engi is fun for me (not all turrets). I play the distraction engi. I want to distract as many opposing players for as long as possible so my team has the numbers advantage at the other fights. PvP is generally a game mode that players do whatever it takes to win, while not violating the EULA. Engi is my main and it only has nades or turrets to choose from. Turret engi is one of the best builds to carry bad teams with. I have won multiple 4v5 with turret engis.

I am just stating my frustration with the lack of communication before and during games. I am also stating that the turret engi thrives on this lack of communication. I am only pointing out the issues with turret engi would be lessened significantly if people would just communicate. Now, if I have not said it enough in this thread:

PEOPLE NEED TO COMMUNICATE MORE BEFORE AND DURING MATCHES.

because people who solo-q can just communicate so easily via voice comm, right?

Dont try to explain so much about WHY you chose turrent engi, sure it’s fun winning, but for you it’s also about winning effortlessly compare to other classes/builds.

style.6173:

wwwes.1398:

Give mesmer a skill that applies revealed. Drink the tears of 1000 crying thieves.

Yes, but only if it applies revealed to the mesmer at the same time.

sure, I will take that, but only if Anet fix GM Power Block trait to work on thief as well.

DeWolfe.2174:

Mesmer’s should never be meta. The entire profession is based around cheap and cheesy gimmicks. Which is really the point of these complaint threads. It’s not about balance, it’s about individuals demanding a face roll spec for their favorite or only character.

On the flip side, these threads are also full of players that dont want to see any changes because few of their characters are part of the meta and want to avoid being nerfed…

RoRo.8270:

Make an engineer spec turrets= profit

this is true, Anet seems to have no intention of looking at turret engi for balance purprose, so you might as well play it while you can.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I don’t know what else to say other than refer to Backpack’s video about rotations. If you refer to these basics and were to use them in matches, turret engineers cannot keep up in rotations. In the long run, turret engineers cause a team to be easily staggered by an aggressive opponent team and get out-rotated in general. They simply have no ability to peel. If Apex Prime was allowing them to peel, they were doing a terrible job of rotating.

your defense for turrent engi is just illogical, then again, with your reply saying “Mesmers are decent all around” (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/A-class-so-good-teams-need-2-of-them/first#post4914612) in all tiers in sPvP is enough to show your biased towards certain classes.

jportell.2197:

Seriously sick of seeing turret engis on EVERY single match. Or a combination of engis,
or teams of all engis.

WHEN WILL THIS CLASS BE FREAKING BALANCED?!

Here I am playing mesmer a class that has been deleted from the meta several fricking times, and engi has been sitting comfy on it’s flipping high horse for over a year now. So I ask when will it finally be bad to stack engis, when will god kitten incendiary powder be nerfed? And for the love of god when will you finally make it so someone actually needs a half a brain to play turret engis. Actually I wouldn’t care if you deleted the entire god kitten ed turret spec from the game. Your game is becoming less and less fun the more engis there are in it.

And please don’t tell me that cele rifle engi is “sooooooooo hard to play” it’s not and you know it.

I share your sentiment, I pretty much stop using my Mesmer main when I sPvP, but it’s the same ol’ story, 2 to 3 engie in most of my games and it really is getting out of hand.

wwwes.1398:

So that page was updated about a week ago “to match live”. It looks like there are a number of changes, some of which are different between ranked and unranked.

Was this a change that had been made a long time ago, or, say… just to throw an arbitrary date out there… Friday, March 27th.

Edit: Sorry if this sounds snarky, and I genuinely have respect for the work that you do, it’s just that one mode constantly throws me into losses and the other one doesn’t, and that didn’t happen until that date.

dont need to say sorry, given the state of sPvP as is, you have every reason to to be snarky. Anet has done a terrible job (at least in terms of class balance and other sPvP related issues), it’s no surprise many are fed up with them.

mcgriddles.2416:

two points.

1. turret engi has a lot of counters. instead of whining about how OP it is, why not learn to counter it? metabattle has the full turret engi build + the counters for it. everyone complains about how no-skill engi is, but no one wants to increase their own personal skill level to beat them? sounds more like you just want an easy win.
2. have turrets last for TWENTY SECONDS? then they’re literally useless. might as well delete them from the game at that point. all other summons last longer than 20 seconds, save for like, mesmer clones.

say turret engi gets nerfed. okay, fine, whatever. then another build will most likely get buffed in its place — not just for engi, ANY class. then that other build is OP, then the mob will come crying for a nerf, then it gets nerfed and something else gets buffed… do you see what i’m getting at? it’s a never-ending cycle.

the nerf cycle ended at Mesmer, dont try to play this “never-ending” cycle bs. If an AI build can allow to stay as, buff Mesmer’s clones and phantasms, I’d love to feel some love for the Mesmer class.

Jasher.6580:

If you are playing a shatter Mesmer against any player who is decent, you are going to have a rough time.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

+1

and someone mentioned a medi-hammer guardian is harder than shatter Mesmer from a post above, lol…

Sebrent.3625:

I’m not sure it’d be balanced to have a weapon give both stealth and revealed on its own.

why not? When a GM trait like power block is totally immune to thieves (and future revenants), Mesmers could use some love.

Daishi.6027:

1. Anything glass, 2. Requires set up to burst, 3. has relatively easy to avoid burst, 4. having said burst requiring defensive cooldowns or resources, and 5. limited and/or restrictive ports.
+
Let’s not forget all while being countered by almost everything else in the competing slot, and naturally soft countered on point/a flat by every current meta low risk bruiser or condi cleave.

Only thing that fits all that criteria is Shatter mes. Call me bias but I cannot understand how anyone can say anything else is objectively harder than that status quo.

Power ranger, Fresh Air, Medi Guard, and both D/P or S/D thief all have very little set up. Thief, Ranger, and Guard, in this context have more damage AND more survivability (Theif and guard not even needing to worry about LoS). Although Fresh air may get the shaft a little bit more in the defensive department they still have more defensive cooldowns.

But the other glass builds I mentioned are definitely the runners up… except maybe medi gaurd.

you are correct and I agree with you 100%, shatter mes easily takes the top spot.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Another factor is “how easy is it for you to be bad at this build”. Most high burst glassy builds are very easy to be terrible with, meaning you get burst easily or you rely on getting in/out of combat reliably. It’s easy to say that a Thief is braindead because it hides in Stealth a lot, but knowing where to be and how to effectively rotate on a Thief is something I see a lot of even high-tier Thieves be ineffective at. It’s tough to always be in the right place at the right time.

lol…

any thieves build against Mesmers are pretty hard in sPvP, Mesmers are easier than turrent engis…

lol, awesome. Time to dust off my engie too. Easy AI build and east point farming. If you cant beat them, join them.

guys,

this debate is getting out of hand, the only way I can see this debate can end is having an actual test involving recognized players in sPvP willing to participate in few 5 vs 5 games, and with one team has the same exact class/combo (that dont change through out the test), and going against another team with mesmer in the roster. The only variant should be the build of the mesmer (which is to be swapped out with power shatter build or mtd build).

Obviously this video should be recorded for educated debate and critique that’s been raging the past few weeks regarding mtd condi shatter build.

you should read the closed thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Video-Mtd-in-ranked-pvp/page/3#post4936967

laquito.5269:

I never really understood ANets balancing philosophy behind not letting us daze/interrupt downed enemies. It is one of the major reasons why downstates are so incredibly imbalanced, imo.

when it comes to Mesmers skills, Anet doesn’t need an explanation or logic. Look at the GM trait Power Block, thieves (and future Revenants) are completely invulnerable and apparently that’s ok.

Rubedo.8769:

Just roll a revenant when their released, that’s apparently what Anet wants anyway

I know I am, and Mesmer will probably have another GM trait that doesnt work against that class. It’s in Anet’s best intention to completely screw over the Mesmer in favor of another class.

I especially loved those “in the air” turrets bug that these engies have been exploiting:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Five-turret-engis-with-turrets-in-the-air/first#post4947608

And with all these complaints, Anet does nothing. Yet back then when people were crying about Mesmers, they nerf them relatively quick in comparison.

Kicker.8203:

Please just nerf turret engis to the ground its not a good part of pvp in any form (passive, boring, op)

+1000

No build that relies on AI should be so popular and abusive to sPvP. kitten like this is just going to drive people away from sPvP.

cyyrix.6105:

Go in with two and bring lots of interrupts. Turreteers are weak to CC. Spamming cc lets the other person land everything, which takes them down pretty quick.

IMO the “play the other two points” thing only works if the engi is bunkered on his own home point. If you have to hold far, the opponents’ short respawn walk does a lot to balance that outnumbered fight.

The build definitely needs a nerf though.

maybe it’s more like Mersmer needs some major buffs?

style.6173:

haha. The OP said balance.

I seriously don’t think ANET has a balance team. I think it is just a bunch of guys who say “hey, wouldn’t it be cool to try….”

I bet those bunch of guys all play the meta builds, and none got a main in Mesmer, Necro and Ranger.

Levetty.1279:

The weapon they are giving Mesmers has already shown they want to spend as little effort on the Mesmer Specialization as possible, don;t know why anybody is expecting a complete rework of the shatter mechanic.

exactly, the GM trait power block was nerfed to favor thieves (and future revenants) with complete 100% ineffectiveness, what makes anyone have high hopes Anet will do something decent for Mesmers? Even if they do something decent, they will make sure another class or meta builds make Mesmers not part of the meta.

Royal.2693:

Unranked shouldn’t even exist with this leaderboard format.
They should simply have solo queue and 5v5 queue, both ranked only, that would improve so many things.

why? To allow casual and new players be farmed for points by experienced players?

Darkpsyde.4782:

What’s funny is that the classes that currently have access to a shield rarely even use them (aside from engineer). Focus is more likely to be chosen over shield on most Guardian setups, and Warriors are more commonly using axe, warhorn, or sword as offhands. What could a shield possibly bring to a mesmer that is more desirable than the effects of offhand sword, focus, or pistol? That’s the real question that remains to be answered.

perhaps a “power block” when using shield that actually works against thieves (or future revenants)!?

Mr Colin.1863:

First of all, raises pitchfork “Shield sucks, yadayada”.

Second of all, ignoring all negative sides about us “not getting our 5 skills and missing piece of mesmer action” without knowing anything about specializations nor having the Mesmer shield confirmed, isn’t it an option that the Chronomancer will feature a locked combo of, presumably, a sword/shield combo.
Consider what we know up until now:
*All classes get 5 skills with their new weapon (Ele even more).
*Specializations lock you into one role.
*Things that are considered core to professions, e.g. shatters, ranger pets, etc. will change while locked in this specialization.
*Every class will already get extra utilities/elites/heals when locked into the specialization. Thereby excluding Mesmer (and presumably Warrior) will not receive extra utilities, but rather extra MH skills when in their specialization role.

Would it not be an option that the Chronomancer’s “Extra things to compensate” would entail the shield only be an option in combo with only one MH, as you fully take on the role of Chronomancer. So both your MH and the Shield skills will change, thereby giving you your extra 3 skills. This would make up for the fact we will not get a 2h-er, but rather 3 new skills for scepter OR sword (depending on which role a Chronomancer will have in HoT) when combined with Shield.

Still not enough, Anet’s repeatedly nerfed Mesmers before the HOT expansion, and our trait skills have not much synergy for build diversity. Sure the Chronomancer might be way for Anet to make up to us (which I doubt, probably still kitten compare to other classes specialization), there are LOTS of work needed for Mesmers to be viable post HOT expansion.

Curunen.8729:

Yes, nevermind invuln, but should lose stealth if an attack is evaded, blocked or missed as well. Same goes for Mesmer phantasm casting while in stealth (saying that so it doesn’t seem unfair).

sure, if Anet fix or optimize Mesmer’s GM trait power block that’s completely invulnerable to theives (and future Revenants), then I can agree to fix this “unfair” issue…

Rym.1469:

Over last months there’s been influx of both Medi Guards and Power Rangers, but it’s more visible in first case, spiking to multiple guardians in lower rated games.

Reasons?

1. Most already have at least 1 guardian. It’s been go-to universal deus ex machina for every game mode since day 1. So people are familiar with greatsword etc.
2. Medi Guard is rather straight-foward and easy to play in hotjoins and lower ratings.
3. Medi Guard does high damage naturally, even with autoattacking/retaliation.
4. It’s hard target to shut down quickly for thieves.
5. It has something for most situations.

Tl;dr – Good Medi Guard will shine, but average or bad one is still doing okay with little investment.

I see no problem with guardian being where it’s at in the meta, they have a variety of builds that allow players to play certain role, and dont feel like they are OP to any extend (like Mesmer vs Thief, for example). I wish Mesmer have more viable build and be part of the meta…

phokus.8934:

I’m tempering my own expectations about Mesmers only receiving an off-hand shield. They said that they’re going to compensate for this but that really could mean anything. A new utility that opens up when the shield is equipped? Maybe the fabled F5 opens up to us? It’s anyone’s guess at this point but I’m not getting overly excited about what this could really mean.

honestly, there are bigger issues with Mesmers, many of the traits and skills should be reworked. For instsance, a grand master trait Power Block that’s completely ineffective against one class (thief) and soon another class (Revenant) is beyond any sense of logic. We need more synergy amongst our traits and kills to have more viable builds, this is the biggest reason Mesmers are not part of the meta in sPvP and lacking in other aspects of the game.

I think the bigger conversation is not just about Mesmer’s power block not affecting thieves (and future Revenants), but it’s about should ANY class’s GM trait skills be completely invulnerable against one or more classes, and Anet needs to answer this in HOT expansion.

Anet, fix Power Block to affect thief, complete invulnerable to it PLUS stealth is not fair to Mesmers in sPvP.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Thieves and medi guards are really the only truly viable zerk classes right now because thieves have either a ton of stealth and mobility or a bit of stealth with a ton of evades and mobility. Guards have a pretty decent amount of recovery because of their invulnerabilties/block and many heals.

I dont think they need a nerf because that would just throw power out of the meta and who would wanna be stuck in a gross cele meta? They just need to give other classes like mesmer smart buffs to their survivability.

agree 100%.

Mesmers need buffs in order to be popular and viable in sPvP.

darres.8203:

Kreed.2768:

Awaltir.5302:

Bran.7425:

darres.8203:

why not?
they’ve already drowned thieves, and people are still QQing

Then why are there still thieves being used at the highest level of play?

Dunno if u ever watched/played high bracket pvp but thief is only usable as cap or +1 because of poor design of many mechanics involving stealth/initiative everyone who at least know what thief can do can outplay him
Also funny that stealth interrupting channel skills (not only rapid fire ) is too op but kittened skills with 3-6 100% immunity to dmg is ok , also i do understand that ranger was up and now finally got some love , but saying that thief is op in spvp is literally not playing him or l2p issue

It’s hard to compare stealth on a thief, which has virtually no hard cooldown aside from revealed on both the d/p and s/d meta builds as weapon skills to immunities with cooldowns of a whole minute or more. Plus, each utility provides only immunity from one damage type; either direct damage or condition damage. It’s a panic button with a relatively long cooldown compared the duration of the skill. Stealth, however, can be employed by the thief as long as there is initiative to spend.

because thieves will die if you stare at them hard enough

When thieves fart in stealth, Mesmers die.

Loonita.7421:

Rapid fire should not hit through stealth. Its already the best channeled skill it should not complete its duration through enemy stealth. Nothing else needs to be said this should not happen.

sure,

if Anet give stealth a nerf, Im all for this change.

PS: speaking as a Mesmer and Ranger player.

hello,

anyone experience the same issue that gem store is not loading? Is it down?