Guild Wars 2

I suppose it depends which class and build you are and where you are situated relative to them. I can hold off two revs longer than 2 DH’s. Warriors I can simply walk away from. Theives I can potentially kill, to get me they normally have to step into my AOE if I’ve setup for them. The FT wall of fire, the mortar field the thunder clap.. and I can doge roll. While using the hammer whirl or block I do damage and apply conditions. Having traps just AOE dropped on me and getting thrown through them though, seems a lot more difficult to deal with in my context.

I would assume most egnis would argue that the HT is one of the best options for healing currently and not really in need of being brought up anymore relative to the other means of healing. We do all acknowledge this right?

I would almost say this is pretty heavily condi leaning bias for a hybrid. I used to do a hybrid when they had the merc rune. This one relies on the 1750 base condi damag, plus might stack, plus whatever adaptive armour contributes to push condi high enough to matter. And it has a consistent means of potentially applying condi beyond what’s expected for each hit due to firearms. It doesn’t work as well with tools/inventions because of the lack of bleed apply, the lack of IP and lack of pinpoint.

Anyway try it, adjust your play a bit to be more in and out, then tell me what you think. I feel it is a somewhat viable alternative role and playstyle to the gyro.

The actual physical damage does take advantage of the fact that bleeding targets are hit for more damage, that you stack might and hammer has pretty good coefficients for the hits to matter a little bit.

The really sneaky part is most folks don’t realize what is killing them. They are so used to Marauder or Paladin that they focus on the moderate damage from the hammer but are downed by the seeming fluff of the condis.

I really find it more fun than the current gyro build. Very exciting and some chance for mass group take downs when you hit your mortar AOE and thunder clap right. I had debated giving up exlix b for something like rocket boots (to apply more burn) or a potion S. But I like the stability and fury procs many more condis which are the silent killer of this build.

Where it bites is when the other team figures out who’s hosing them and they fresh air, guardian CC push pull you through traps and warrior you in a CC focus. Your pretty much toast unless you saved the toolbelt elix for just the right time, or you use your stun break and acid bomb jump. I guess this is why some like having the trait for automatic S drinking.

tank treads baby!

Oh hey thanks. The hammer is used to reflect and block and CC. When combined with the firearms trait and swapping sigil (doom) and bleed sigil, it also applies condi. Plus with the blocks you can stand facing something like a hundread blades while they stand in your wall of fire or your mortar field. Hammer is what gives this ability to have some point presence and makes it more hybrid in function.

The evades on the rocket jump are nice, and that rocket jump can leap combo the fields I have. I really feel I get the most bruiser capability out of keeping the hammer which does some damage and lets the more sinister condis do their work.

You can do things like apply poison with EG while hitting the flame thrower tool belt for several burn bonuses, then hit the CC field of the hammer, drop the flame wall on them while they are stunned then jump in the field still.

Plus hammer does decent damage with no power aside from the 20 might I’m ususally rocking. However if you want to YOLO you can try converting the thoughness to power with hammer trait in themiddle choosing the bottom option. I find I like the little bit of bonus regen more though.

thanks guys… yeah the 4 trips through the whirly blade traps when facing 2 of them is pretty much enough to down me. One of them I can manage, but 2 is too many animations and traps dropping one me (and anyone else unfortunate enough to be in the area).

Caosaur.3871:

Matchmaking is better, meta is ok. It’s still too condi focused, but I’ll take that over the snoozefest that was s1.
I do want to play something other than a healbot on my ele tbh. I know fresh air exists, but… nty.

Hey can your healbot spam CC? Theres a type of darn ele out there that really hoses my build over. I wondered if it has to be a FA to do it, or one of these http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_D/F_Stun-o-matic, Or whether your healbot can as well.

StickerHappy.8052:

shion.2084:

Must be more than 15 pip difference, I had div 1 and 2 and 3 in the same match.

If you are in a premade, the matchmaker takes the highest division in your party as a consideration too.

Anyway, but still the point still stands, what is the problem? he won?

The argument was that match making was broken. If it’s intended to enforce a strict 15 pip spread policy amongst all players, then it would be if non-premade teams could span divisions 1 through 3. I was stating nothing regarding his winning or losing, simply offering a validation that if certain criteria were expected to be strictly enforced, then I could verify it was broken and not working as designed. I suspect they don’t enforce 15 pips total range however. Which would then be relevant in arguing that it was not in fact broken as designed.

Winning has nothing to do with whether it is broken or not.

Must be more than 15 pip difference, I had div 1 and 2 and 3 in the same match.

I think when I said third choice, this is not equivalent to saying nearly out of meta. My thread title was a teaser I suppose, but the content does not support your defensive criticism.

I don’t believe i said that because they lost and had an engi that it necessarily meant anything, but only 1 team out of the 4 successful had one, and the two worst teams had one out of 8 total teams. Correlation does not necessitate causation but should still be considered.

One might also anticipate a disproportionate number of engi’s to the fact that many pro teams used to have one, and so members of their team will be specialized in it and less likely to want to give it up even if slightly sub-optimal in actual effectiveness, thus giving it a potential popularity that over-exaggerates its relevance. If this is at play you’d see a shift over time.

ArthurDent.9538:

So I was playing around with this build for a bit and have to preface this by saying it is one of the cheesiest builds I have ever played, on the level of minion master and turret engi. However there are certainly weaknesses.

I would say the biggest weakness of this build is retaliation. It is damage that not only goes through evades but hits the thieves 2 primary damage dealing skills particularly hard. Death blossom and impaling lotus are each 3 separate hits, so retaliation procs 3 times for each of these skills. Combine that with thief healing potential is not terribly great, this can wear the thief down fairly efficiently. Of course the build still uses bountiful theft, so retaliation must be able to be reapplied frequently, or have enough cover boons so that retal isn’t stolen reliably. Mesmers with traited retaliation on phantasm is extremely effective in this regard, as a thief can’t strip retaliation off of all the phantasms especially when the mesmer’s stolen item is too good to pass up. Other things that work well would be: scrapper with elixer b, elixer b proc, and light field combos; warrior with spiked armor which is too short of a cd for steal to take it every time; guardian with numerous sources especially on gs.

Another weakness of this build is the lack of ability to deal with ranged pressure from kiting opponents. It spams a crazy amount of cripple in melee range making it very tough to stick to in this regard. However against ranged opponents it doesn’t have nearly the sticking power as most thief builds with only steal and heart seeker as gap closers.

The last major weakness is against builds that have frequent small condi cleanses such as diamond skin elementalist, and ironically escapists absolution dare devil. It simply doesn’t have the cover conditions to allow the bleeds to stick. Watching two condi dd thieves going at each other is about as exciting as watching 2 bunker guards duke it out since they are clearing conditions off each other with every dodge.

As for the notion that the build is weak to cc, it really isn’t, it has 2 on demand stun-breaks and an additional one on auto proc. Bandits defense is on a measly 12s cool-down traited so very few builds can apply enough cc to lock this build down.

Out side of these weaknesses the only thing you can do against this thief build is to just out play them by hitting them after the death blossom evade frames end. While this puts the burden of skill on the non thief, it can be done.

Can you not drop condi AOE on your own feet and watch them bounce around in it ?

Your discounting scenarios like 5 person pre-mades? Why would those not be competitive against other 5 person pre-mades…. so maybe not “Literally nothing”

I will note that of the teams that actually won 2 of their games…. only 1 of the 4 had an engi and both the teams that won none of their games had one.

looks like we still do a third tier place in Pro League. I would have thought Mesmers would be more popular with their unique features like portals as well as decent damage potential and group help. I don’t know druid well enough but am a touch surprised to see them sharing as much popularity as mes theif and war.

Interesting there are no double classes represented. Sometimes their synergy, but it does argue that balance is getting a bit better.

Thoughts?

http://imgur.com/FigyFg7

Anyone tried it out?

By the way what am I looking for to stop the push pull trick? It’s quite irritating when their are two of the DH’s together.

The times a DH gets me is with the push pull trick. The majority of the time I can mortar from a distance, rocket charge, dodge roll, then lay on the condis.

I think the class usefulness balance is better. The tweaking to my classes sustain means you have to build for it now if you want it which is good. Matchmaking wise, it seems somewhat improved to me. There are blow outs, but in general a lot more really good close games that I enjoy. In terms of progress, I think its happening slower, but I’ll take close matches over division rising.

For rev, as an ele… can’t you run that Dagger Focus stun build that messes me up frequently? The CC in that each time they come to attack should be hard to overcome. Plus free lighting whacks and 10% bonus damae from sigils… I think its somethingn like this that gives me no end of trouble as an engi (note I dont have the stab from gyro)

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_D/F_Stun-o-matic

Most revs I hurt with condi, a well placed CC, and strategic kiting. An ele though should be able to dance around forever with a warrior. Or … just read what Wolfric said above and pretty much agree.

with rifle 4, BOB, and blast gyro… should be a lot of fun CC though

If I kill my opponent off point in a 1 v 1 I will sometimes draw out their death so they don’t respawn and get back in fight. Mortar has a big range If someone goes to heal them you drop your condi AOE’s … i fthey come for you, you lob a few condi AOEs fire the function gyro and deal with the new commer. I’ve eaten up tons of time with effective 5 v 4’s while recapping and having the opponent tool around trying to rez.

Aren’t you picked apart by folks with range? You have no reflect and no block. I would love for this build to be a thing though… but without explosives, are the slow triggering bombs still effective enough?

So I’m enjoying the following build. I wouldn’t mind any suggestions, or for someone to give it a spin and give me some feedback.

Playstyle is AOE, in and out. Not a hard bunk sustain based play for group skirmish. 1 v 1 you shouldn’t have to conceed a cap to win. Against necro mez and guard, you’ll want to leave circle and re-enter at obvious times.

Why it seems to work… even without power, hammer still does a little something. Condi takes down traditional bunkers easier than damage I find. It’s always applying condi and has a very high value (thanks to undead +10% tough convert and pinpoint). Survival is reasonable with the regen, the adaptive armour, protection on healing. Easy swift access and might stacking for mobility and hitting.

Advantages –
It is effective at group skirmish for a point with the various AOE and ancillary condis.
It is quite good 1 v 1. There are no real classes I consider myself disadvantaged against, and I do decently well against bunkers.

Disadvantages –
In group skirmish can be focused down hard and fast with concerted effort. No I’m outta here button.
In 1 v 1 you really need to get your blocks right and active defenses.
Need to be very aware of when to cleanse condi and when not to given low health pool.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlcTh2tYtWw6KQ7FLsFFdwP8JvYHVFPBYIWiBAA-TJRFwA42fIaZAEXAAAPAAA

Well some classes work synergistically quite well together. As a engi I hate double guard on some maps (like Foe fire middle). Basically if they focus there’s always a bloody trap or impassible wall, or picket fence thing. I can outplay single guards, but with two, they are just going to spend me out of hammer leaps, dodge rolls, acid bomb jumps. They can just keep going.

I don’t play meta, I’m doing fine this season. I loose 1 v 1’s only when I feel they are far out of my class, so my limitation is me not my build this time around.

Last season I tried to avoid it and eventually fell to the dark side, it was just too efficient and people were able to beat me who weren’t playing as well skill wise.

usually though meta is meta for a reason. And its a good place to start (and lets be honest most of the time finish).

I get away with my non-meta because to some degree it’s not expected, it kills my classes meta efficiently, and it caters to my natural play strengths which my classes current meta doesn’t.

To actually encourage stomping (which was the original post), you’d need to do things like reduce damage taken by stompers, reduce the effectiveness of AOE Condi, reduce cleave.

I don’t think this is a good idea, but it would encourage stomping.

Effective Peeling of focused allies.
Knowing when to give up a Cap in order to win the skirmish.

1 mez can’t hurt. After your team takes far, and they respond by moving mid to far, you port to mid

I would say a good team knows when to un-target a target that didn’t play out and should now not be chased anymore.

really, IGNORE the warrior? They’re one of my first to focus down, let them unload on you and its over.

think about 9pm est

Cynz.9437:

Chaith tells people to stop play aggressive vs scrapper and leave point to him. Great advice man.

In other thread he suggests scrapper buffs because he has SUBPAR melee pressure.

MINDBLOWN.

You realize the statements are not logically contradictory, assuming they are actually quoted properly and not conveniently, right?

1) it is possible that the statement about sub-par melee is with regards to classes/ situations other than a 1 v 1 with a thief.

2) I believe he advocated using Egun auto which is ranged not melee when in 1 v1 with theif. Perhaps even supporting the idea of the mele pressure statement.

Yes by rank I meant divisions, so essentially My team had (3 div 1’s and 2 div 2’s) vs Their team (2 div 2’s and 3 div 3’s) So not even close in terms of pip spread. Highly unlikely they were a premade and my team wasn’t. But if they were, they’d use their highest player’s rating for the team right, so that would be an even worse pip range match up if you follow my thiking.

I’m not sure most will claim they can 1 v 2 an ele and accidentally kill the +1 theif consistently without trying. Are you sure your not a theif trying to get an engi nerf?

I had a match yesterday, had 2 rank 2’s and 3 rank 1’s against, 2 rank 2’s and 3 rank 3’s. Is this an expected possible match up? I don’t mind cause I get to play better players theoretically and I don’t play enough games to get high in the ranks, but kinda odd.

We did win… but thought I’d ask.

That’s the spirit. Can’t get better if you don’t try!

The worst is people who have the arrogance to not realize they’re bad and insist on projecting their losses onto others.

I had someone inform me that “engis are no longer viable” in a match. Cause I guess they’re not the Pro league flavour of the month anymore. It’s what I enjoy playing and I doubt at the moderate levels I play at anyone is going to really notice the difference.

So to extra annoy them I told them… #ReallyNotViable, cause no gyro’s, rabid amulet and FT/EG/elix B/mort.

How do they get protected if you shoot them with a pistol?

I see the most increase in warriors, though I’m not convinced they are entirely OP. A very well played mesmer is my least favourite opponent.

This is going to sound crazy but the top tier of classes seems to have flattened out a bit more this season in my opinion. Good top choices depend on play style now and could be ele, rev, mez, war, (druid, theif maybe engi in next tier). I think DH lags a tiny bit, but its more because their class mechanics cater to the turret style of play.

A bunker ele is better for keeping a spot capped in my observations then an engi, which has to use S on occasion and so looses the cap easier.

I don’t think engi’s are one of the top representations in the pro levels because of the nerfs. I’d hardly call them OP, they aren’t even in the required 5 anymore and seemingly a possible alternate making them mid tier at best.

I find Guards particularly nasty in pairs. The combination of traps and push pulls basically is a free kill on a focused (engi at least). 1 on 1 and with enough time and them bunkering a point, I’ll usually take them unless they are a much better player. I’ve run into versions that if they run I will not be able to take out in any reasonable amount of time.

If I need to rush the point for near match end and the last few ticks before 500, it’s unlikely I’ll survive the YOLO assault.

I did run with it for a bit… however its mitigation effect is somewhat useless in group skirmish. I suppose you could use it for the final salvo effect and the reflect (but ham has a reflect).

It’s better in 1 v 1 but I find that more offense is preferable in that situation, so I take FT instead. Fire filed access, group CC knockback and blast finisher is preferable to me.

I did note that if you take purge gyro You can get protection, so maybe that’s where they were thinking you’d get it from.

So then I realistically they aren’t getting protection at any great frequency. Ok that explains then.

How are engis getting their stability? You’d have to run without the protection health trait or be taking elixr b which is not meta? Plus to use the hammer trait that grants it you’d have had to dodged the theif first.

I suppose you could juggernaut, but a theif would see you camping FT… and honestly who camps FT with Jug these days? Or ever…

I suppose the gyro explode trait maybe? But stability isn’t really something an engi has oodles of… we can be CC’d easily overwhelmed in group fights. Probably the number 1 way I go down is stun lock.

I don’t bother with perfectly weighted because I run rabid and condi build. So I use the Rapid Regen.

I have plenty of might from FT fire field, alchemy, exli B. So might with stability isn’t huge. I also don’t do a lot of hammer damage. The extra hundread tick with my regen backpack seems nice. Since I have rabid I could technically make a bit of a power boost from it but at such low vit, I find the regen saves me sometimes.

Ah they said imun and invuln so I was taking them seriously. But we’re just talking S here so… right I thought we were having a reasonable discussion.

Maybe I’ve been playing wrong… what makes an engi “immune” ? The only way I can get invulnerable is that elixir S which handily disables all my condi clears and looses me point cap, and the ability to put any finishing hits on my nearly dead opponents. AKA the trait I never take ( or skill for that matter).

That’s funny I see a lot less this season…

The function gyro is small and easy to miss if your zoomed out. If an engi does it to me I have not been able to survive it. Ele’s don’t have a problem against it or thieves, or mez… because moving will stop it.