Guild Wars 2

Just work towards them slowly. You will get there eventually. Its not really worth it unless you plan to do fractals when they raise the cap though.

Im happy to see you are trying to change things. Im just worried about how it turns out. I dont want to be forced into relying on defensive stats to get by. Because I can see that ruining solo’ers and small group dungeon runners fun(2-3man). As long as we can still survive with skill im happy for you to change things.

If you start increasing attack frequency you alienate more classes. For example warriors and mesmers have plenty of evades, invulns, blocks and access to vigor. Some classes are very limited in that regard so they will be forced into more tanky roles or just not picked at all. I dont want my necro to be pigeonholed into some boring bunker build for pve. You would hurt diversity more by increasing attack frequency. Just buff classes so they are more desirable even when playing non optimal specs. The issue isnt that its full zerkers everywhere its that the effectiveness of other builds is so minor that it actually hurts groups more when they take those builds.

Things like healing power scaling, condition reworks and so on could help without destroying the dps meta. If you want to play non zerk builds you can, they just wont be optimal. But they can still be good with some improvements to class balance and pve mechanics. I dont think people should be aiming to destroy the current meta they should be asking to make other builds more useful. This means the optimal groups will still be taking full dps if it works and if you arent in a speedrunning guild it doesnt effect you so you have no reason to complain.

Something id like to see is make furious demise group fury and move it to 25 in curses. Then put target the weak as 25 in spite. Find a new minor for curses 15.

Withering precision needs to be reworked or replaced. Id like to see something to do with vuln or chill as a grandmaster.

Strength of undeath should be 10% damage boost. Its the only damage boost 25 point minor that is weak compared to other classes.

Theres some threads on the necro forums where suggestions were made which could benefit necro in pve.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Traitworks/page/3#post3474249

Thanks for the sticky <3

So i guess the coral is not an option in the legit runs anymore. Seems fair enough. Im curious how people will deal with that encounter.

BeoErgon.9107:

Don’t worry,
my workday just finished.

I know I don’t see the game like some others, and specially like the majority of the Dungeons subforum. But I like arguments and discussions and this subforum seems like a neat place for a “play how you want” player like me to find guys to ‘talk to’ when I am bored at work.

Truth to be told I am surprised and pleased that the conversation lasted so long without falling under the usual forum insults.

But well, let’s pack and go home.

A last little question for the gurus of this subforum : would you really mind if other play styles were as efficient as melee DPS? Do you like playing the META whatever it is or you really really like playing melee DPS?

Pure curiosity.
Bye.

You can see why you got a good polite arguement cant you? It was because you were objective and polite yourself and didnt resort to the old “blah blah exploiters…” and so on. We are all too happy to discuss these things when people are respectful.

But when people start presenting their opinions as 100% fact and throw accusations it gets out of hand. Kind of like what nemesis did earlier on in the thread. I resisted but I dont blame the others from replying to him in the way they did.

And to answer your question. I like being efficient and I like dealing damage (Big numbers!). I really enjoy playing melee in challenging encounters. And some fights I dont mind ranging (solo molten duo). Aslong as the encounter is fun I can enjoy it either way. The problem is most encounters are too easy and not fun when you range. The most fun I have in melee are fights like risen priest of melandru solo because you cant stay melee, you have to duck in and out and be constantly mobile. But full ranging him is too easy and boring compared to how much fun and unforgiving he is in melee.

So in a way this current meta suits me fine because it appeals to my want to be efficient, the fact that i like to melee stuff for greater challenge and my desire to see big numbers. Just a shame there arent many encounters which are challenging enough in melee.

They probably wont be weak enough to conditions to make you take a condi class though. Either that or it will be one short fight out of a longer instance so it wont be worth taking. We can hope though.

Anierna.6918:

Trying to achieve an offensive trait setup for Necro that can compete with other classes is incredibly infuriating. A few minor swaps to a few traits in some future balance update would just make it so much easier.

- Putting Death Shiver (DM IX) in Curses as a Master trait by swapping it with any of the 4 current Master lvl Curses traits (all 4 are useless for PvE). It’s ridiculous that 1) a trait relating to DS is in DM rather than Spite, Curses, or SR with the other DS-related traits; and 2) that a DPS trait is in a support line rather than an offensive line.
- Swapping Death into Life (Spite 15) with Deadly Strength (DM 25) and swapping the 7% and 10% values. What’s an increased healing power trait doing in the power traitline anyway? Or if Anet wants to keep it there, change Death into Life from “power-to-healing power” to “power-to-prec.”
- Swapping Siphoned Power (Spire 25) with Target to Weak (Curses 25).

If these changes occurred, you could go 30/20/0/0/20 and have 1) optimal vuln stacking; and 2) higher DPS than spoj’s current 30/25/0/0/15 build. I doubt necro would be able to match War or Ele for dmg even after these changes, but they would definitely be a step in the right direction.

You should post this here.

These are all suggestions I like. Its a shame min maxers have a small voice among the necro community.

I think hes trying to say the time difference will be more noticable if you exclude op consumables. Which kind of makes sense because instead of skilled team kills in 8 seconds and unskilled kills in 10 seconds. You get skilled team kills in 15 seconds and unskilled kills in 20 seconds. I could just be talking crap. I dont know. Just trying to make sense of it. xD

Impact.2780:

Necro can still have a good up time of vulnerability without going into death magic. That’s just the only way I could see it reaching perm 25 stacks solo. The sacrifice would become Spiteful Talisman instead of Reaper’s Might – although I don’t suppose that’s a sacrifice when you have 25 stacks provided for you already. That would allow for reapplying focus 4 as soon as the vulnerability stacks drop, while still maintaining 10 stacks via life blast.

Its not that simple.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unshakable

Not dodging attacks. Definately intended way to fight. Impressive.

Well not really because thats just risk vs reward. Excluding certain fights which arent very well designed. If you are spreading out and ranging then it makes sense that it doesnt work as well, you dont share buffs as much and you are using safer dps options so it should be less dps and slower. Its fine bar a few fights where its over so quick that there is no challenge even for a bunch of newbies in dps gear. Thats not really an issue with the game though. Thats an issue with many encounters within the game. They are too easy.

Some parts are broken. I wont deny that. But to say the whole stacking melee and going full dps is broken is a bit far. Thats what I was getting at.

Ive been discussing vuln bot necro with anierna aswell. Its an interesting concept. Im just reluctant to sacrifice so much dps for it. One of the issues is most of the vuln is spread out in traitlines and on bad weapons/dps options. Atleast with the engi the vuln traits are in the dps traitlines.

Party chat is wiped on instance change not leaving the party. Its a design limitation, not intentional afaik. So if you get kicked and it auto ports you out of the instance its going to wipe that chat. If you get kicked outside of an instance it will stay. Might be worth mentioning when talking about party chat getting wiped.

Timing change is a good change. Separating categories is also good. However i dont think things like fgs and minor exploits should be disallowed in the full runs. For example I feel like the jumping over doors in CoE is interesting and something you can use in a full run. Aslong as you dont go out of the map or through textures with blinks i think its fine. The CoE jumps are literally leaps over gaps above the door and so they dont really feel like proper exploits to me.

I also agree with haviz on banning certain op consumables (harpy feathers). I dont feel like embers are in that category though. Thats just my opinion.

I dont think anyone here is against improvements to the game to allow more build diversity. But being against a whole community just because its not at that stage yet is unfair. Theres always a meta and it might seem pretty bland in gw2 at the moment but for min maxers the fun comes from being useful and efficient, build diversity is a minor issue for us. So whatever works the best will be used. If the game changed and a tank was needed we would start using a tank.

However this game was designed not to have specific roles like tank and healer and that really is a great system. No waiting for hours for that 1 troll tank that leaves halfway through the dungeon, no complete sole reliance on one member of each party. Any party works, but not all are optimal. This is a good concept. You just need to accept that the optimal way of playing might not be something you enjoy. That doesnt mean its broken just because its not to your liking.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Romo.3709:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Romo.3709:

We’ve been at it since a week before Fractured release. Absolutely nothing has been done. They simply moved on assuring themselves that people will forget…

I’ll never forget that thread. My guildies won’t let me forget it either. Lol

Haha. Same here. I went from doing fractals every day to doing low levels 1-2 times a week to help out guildies level up.

I only do fractals for daily now. So, swamp, level 1, done. Hehe. Sometimes I do harpy, for the champions.

Just roll for ascalon. Its bugged and will give you the daily achieve as soon as you go from lobby to ascalon fractal. No need to complete any.

Yeah tactics and recommended classes should be kept out of this thread. Same with listing specific meta builds and guides. They will only bring disagreements and thread derailment.

Phenn.5167:

I would adore the Dark fields on our Wells if we had the finishers to use them. It makes absolutely no sense to provide something so perfect for the Necro Vampiric concept and then forget (?) to give the Necro the means by which to USE the combo field. I dunno—maybe they thought this was the Necro’s form of group support.

Agreed. Only class with good access to dark fields. Slot 3 wells for dark fields. No finishers to use in them. gg

Where did people learn that TA puzzle? First time i saw it was when pugs used it so i started kicking them. A large amount of TA pugs seem to know it. :/

I appreciate you having the bravery to come on this forum. Its a shame we will never agree on whats intended and whats breaking the game.

Ok so the vid i watched was actually part 1 of 2. So it was actually 20 minutes. How is that any better? Thats just even more dull. I played some wow a few years back and quit because all it was a geargrind so you could do enough dps to kill raid bosses before the enrage. How is that good design?

I just watched a Lich King kill video because I was curious about so called challenging boss. It consisted of 10 minutes of people standing still and dpsing/healing/tanking. Fun and engaging fight! Also really challenging! Nothing to do with gear at all.

Fror.2163:

For doing quite a lot of ranged lupi (yes, pugging), it takes no more than ten minutes per attempt and max 2 attempts. Solo vids show quicker kills than a ranged pug group. So please, one hour is only for newbies.

I meant 1 hour if they buffed lupi so a dps group took 5mins to kill. Might be a slight exaggeration but with lupis current hp ive seen ranging pugs take 20 mins to kill him.

Considering dps groups take <1min and a pug takes 10mins. If we assume with a hp buff a dps group takes 5mins then a pug would take 50mins. You get the idea.

The difference is wow has a holy trinity and does not reward players for being skillful (dodging and reading tells). So there isnt a dps meta. But there is gearcheck elitism in wow. So its not really any different in that regard.

It can only be killed in under 30 seconds with experienced players. Casual speedruns dont phase skip so its usually around 50 seconds. And theres more room for mistakes because you have to deal with attacks in phase 3. Kill time is not indicative of difficulty. I think it would be rather boring to have to take 5 minutes on lupi every time just because they decided to buff his hp. If a speed clear group took 5mins to kill lupi a ranging pug would take about an hour. And thats a long time to keep yourself alive for.

Thats not really the case. Yes there are issues with pve which hinder build diversity such as condi specs. But when going for record times builds are often tweaked to suit the path. Warrior build is stable. But there are many variations of the eles build and mesmers use different setups for different dungeons. Same can be said about guardians and maybe thieves?

The game wont be done for. The speedclearers are the more loyal and longterm playerbase. And many casual players eventually join the speedclear community because it adds a new level of challenge to a rather dull pve experience.

I want a more complex game aswell. So does everyone else. But when they said no holy trinity you must of known there was going to be a meta which involved mostly dps. Its just logical. Even games with a holy trinity have a meta where only very few builds are regarded as good. Just because the meta is pure dps doesnt mean the game is bad. Because the reality is that the defense and support side comes in the form of damage mitigation so we can run full dps and still survive. I think thats a really good and interesting concept.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

spoj.9672:

Use url tags or just copy the link direct.

Tried to follow the guide In this here forum

URL tags?

The BBCode formatting.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/faq/

Textile doesnt seem to work properly.

Use url tags or just copy the link direct.

Its a bit more than 5% but ok. Im not saying advertise it as a build people should use. Im saying advertise it as something people should consider using if they want to speedrun. I dont understand this hate for efficiency and meta builds. Its completely unwarranted.

And something people always assume about my build is that you have to play it in melee. You dont. I advertise only melee weapons on it because thats the optimum weapon sets for the optimum rotation. But if you need some range you can take an axe or even a staff. Which i do explain in my guide.

With the amount of viewers you have Id like you to showcase the meta build aswell. Just so it gets exposure. Even though we know the meta builds for each class we cant compete with people like you for spreading builds. And that causes some people who really should be using a meta build to wrongfully take something subpar because they cant find anything else.

Casual theory crafters get so much exposure they should use it to the benefit of the entire community. Which means advertising top tier builds aswell as their own. Unfortunately noone does that.

The Lost Witch.7601:

The one waypoint isn’t quite enough. And where is that jumping puzzle? We must’ve missed it completely.

The whole of arah is a jumping puzzle. But its not something you would call legit.

Dont forget damage modifiers. They are better than crit damage. Which is why dps guard has no points in crit damage traitline.

Well you did assume something though. You assumed he didnt put up a description. And i know exactly what you mean when you say break the word down.

Yeah but anyone who wants something specific does. Id actually find it insulting if you thought i didnt and it was me in his situation. Common sense really.

Lol why would you assume he didnt put his requirements in the lfg description. Wtf is this logic.

Iris Ng.9845:

Out of all story mode, I hate the SE one, and I hate Dredges, every single Dregdes. I think it’s more difficult than others.

I dunno. Its one of the easier ones to solo/duo. I couldnt find a pug for it a few weeks back so i just started soloing it on guard to get it done. Got a friend to come help halfway through to speed it up a bit. There was one bit which was a real pain in the kitten . And that was defending the npc from waves of dredge and inquest while they destroy the gate. We didnt have quite enough dps to burn them down so we had to do some pretty frustrating stuff to get it complete after the npc died.

Dev said jps are fine apparently anyway.

You can solo all of path 4 legit except simin. The only difficult part of soloing path 4 without using the jumping puzzle is melandru.

Difficulty is subjective. If you watch videos to prepare, no path should be too difficult except maybe arah. If you like story then i recommend doing the storymodes in order first. AC > CM > TA > SE > CoF > HotW > CoE > Arah. All storymodes are pretty easy and puggable. You may struggle to find a group for some of the less popular dungeons though.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

spoj.9672:

If you reduce group dps in dredge or cliffside you are much more likely to wipe when clearing trash. So no, defense doesnt really help because the best defense is a good offense.

In an experienced zerker team, that is certainly the case. In a random pug, I think you’re better off bringing some small amount of defense. Like I said, there’s a lot of players face planting because they aren’t that experienced at playing zerker. Knights is more forgiving in that respect, and you still have a lot of damage (not as much as Zerker obviously, but it suffices).

True but ive been in low dps pugs with tank builds and they were wiping all over the place because of the lack of dps. I managed to get some of them to start using proper dps weapons and we started wiping less, funnily enough. :P

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

At Fractal levels of 30 and below, having some defense does make a difference. There’s a lot of people taking Berserker gear because it is the Meta, but end up lying on their face a lot, because they are inexperienced with it. I’d personally go with Knights if you are less experienced, and want some defense to go along with the damage output.

At higher level fractals, I don’t think you need Berserker, but it’s obviously faster. You do more damage. Monsters hit for less now, but until they fix the combat system, Berserker will still come out on top.

If you reduce group dps in dredge or cliffside you are much more likely to wipe when clearing trash. So no, defense doesnt really help because the best defense is a good offense.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Spoj yes it’s the might duration one.

He was talking about he had 50% crit from being in DS so going scholar the crit would be wasted.

Just how worse it is when compared to Scholar ?

Well theres no crit chance on scholar so yeah…. Scholar runes give power and crit damage. Both of which are good on even that build. Scholar runes are far superior.

I remember when nemesis first released that build. Molch did some calcs and suggestions to improve the build and that included the 10 points in curses and using scholar runes. Nemesis acknowledged that it was far superior in damage but he didnt want to redo a 2 hour video understandably.

If its might duration then no. And i assume hes running the 30/10/0/0/30 life blast build. Sadly its a pretty poor build for dungeons but every power necro seems to run it. And tbh I would rather them run that than some pvt minion build or some weird condi support crap. So its not great but its probably one of the better builds you can hope for from a necro pug.

The Lost Witch.7601:

In that case I’d be happy with either a fix of those bugs, or new working waypoints.

Weve been asking for them to be fixed for a very long time. Dungeons dont get the attention they need. And when they do get some attention its usually to put an invisible wall to stop an exploit. Which ends up in more bugs and the exploit is easily worked around because anets invisible walls are incredibly effective.

There already exists some of the waypoints you want. The problem is they are bugged and have been bugged for over a year. Path 1 tar boss waypoint activates after you finish the dungeon instead of after killing the tar. And they recently bugged the p2 waypoint after the spider run. It now only activates once you unlock the next waypoint after killing the abomination. Making it another completely useless waypoint.

But then you cant use cc as defense for 5 seconds. And you have a bigger problem. Atleast with defiant you can counter it by using cc to burn the stacks down quickly. A coordinated group can burn 5 stacks of defiant very quickly so they are ready for the next interrupt only a few seconds later. I think you are looking at this from a pug point of view. And thats not wrong but its not right either. Id rather think about when to save my cc and when to use it to burn stacks down, than just always be able to interrupt a boss. That feels pretty mindless to me.