Guild Wars 2

You cannot self mitigate torment! It still tick for about 100 damage even if your standing still!

What he is saying is that thieves suck now.

He had rerolled a necro because they are OP.

Seriously, a lot of players I’ve played against in tpvp have given up thier mains for necros…

Even I play a necro, yes they are OP.

If you don’t see how 4s revealed kills d/d then your obviously not a thief.

4s reveal is dumb and should be reverted.

Wvw has 3s reveal, why not spvp? D/ and s/d stealth builds are killed because they don’t have enough defense to deal with beeing vulnerable for 4s. D/p on the other hand had a blind field to save you. S/d now has flanking strike. D/d has nothing. It’s the least used set in spvp by top players because it has no defense at all. The cnd to steal combo is not worth giving up blind field. With 3s reveal it might be worth it.

4s needs to go. People qq about 4s reveal when necros exist? Lol!

It’s a dot and should be on his. Even if you stand still you take damage. HiS is the correct clear for those.

It needs to remove torment. It supposed to remove all damage over time condis and that is exactly what torment is.

It’s super cheese when bunker mesmer drops 5 stacks of torment on me and a crapload of other condis and I have absolutely no way of clearing it other than using my stun break.

No, I am not going run shadow arts in spvp, thanks.

There should be a way for pvpers to gain pve xp and pve exotic 80 items as well.

Anet failed on removing the xp from beta. In beta you gained xp for spvp kills. We need something like that to exist again.

Pvp and pve should not be so separate, reward wise.

Yea it should but anet doesn’t care about thieves. We are doomed to be neglected because of qqing noobs!

Your lifeforce got buffed. Marks got buffed. Can run same 30/30/10 but get staff cd instead of greater marks.

Way I see it, only thing that really got a nerf was terror. Everything else got a slight buff. I find it much harder to take a necro out if ds now.

Necros are OP because of dhuumfire. If anet is just throwing burning damage out like candy, why ant thieves get it on pistol #2?

Viking Jorun.5413:

swinsk.6410:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Travlane.5948:

the particular build i run…and well for that matter most condi builds can add 7 condis on in the first 2-3 seconds.

But they’ve completely blown their conditions on you initially. Bring Infusion of Shadow and stealth immediately afterward, then restart the fight and play smart while watching your conditions.

If you are going to run a shadow arts build in tpvp you are not going to be contesting a point or pressuring an enemy in stealth. In wvw or hot joins, sure. Tpvp, no.

You give up too much damage and rely on stealth for healing condi removal which allows the other team to cap points on you and simply ignore you. The other team wants you to stealth because that means they are putting pressure on you and you can’t do anything beneficial in stealth.

I beg to differ. I have my playstyle and do quite well in tPvP as a condition thief running in Shadow Arts. You may not believe me, or will ask for a video, but my job with my build isn’t to roam. I know fully well what it means to bunker a point and I do a kitten good job at it when all odds are stacked against me (5v1, anyone?). When you learn to play the way I do, you’re just as effective in stealth as you are out of it, and sometimes you have to adapt to maintain control of a point using only the initial stealth to remove 2 conditions at a time. I don’t find tPvP any more challenging than some hot join servers. People will sit there and attempt to kill you the entire match at their home point even if they have it while your team keeps the other two points. Call it a troll build, but it’s the way I play in tPvP, and it’s highly effective.

The second you stealth your enemy starts gaining control over the point. All he had to do is outlast you through a few stealth and he takes the point from you. If he knocks you off a few times, even easier. You obviously don’t know what bunkering a point means. It means holding the point as yours while enemies are assaulting it and not letting it go neutral or over to enemy control. Any thief who fights in stealth will let the point go neutral and eventually they will cap. Thus, losing points for your team. While guardian, ranger, ele, engi can do the same thing you do but much better without having to let it get decaped. Most teams have a bunker for two points. They don’t care if your troll build spends the whole match not decaping but keeping thier bunker on point. You are the one getting trolled not them. Because that means your team only has 4 other people to hold 2 points while thier team continuously holds the point you are assaulting. They have 4 people and they only need to hold 1 point. I would accept this argument if at any point you ever gained control over the point, but you don’t.

Obviously, you don’t understand tpvp. Maybe you play with 20% group or something. Condi thief had absolutely no place in tpvp, especially not trying to solo a point. If anything they would be useful in a team fight, but not as useful as s/d or burst.

Do you see any condi thieves in the setup on any of the high ranked teams? Nope. There is a reason for that. You see burst and s/d and occasionally the 0/30/30/10/0 d/p far point pusher build. Which is as burst as you can get with survivability. The only way that build works though is with a teammate to help you, because like I said earlier. You can’t contest a point in stealth. So you need a teammate to do that whole you’re making use of your shadow arts.

I’m not the best thief, but not the worst. Highest I’ve been ranked is like 656. Normally I’m in the 95% to low 900’s. I have played against complete noobs and über amazing premades. I’ve played every build in tpvp on thief and hot joins. I’m not telling you because I’m guessing. It’s from experience.

How about mesmers who stand inside thier clones? Can’t target them even if you have 20s of no pressure to do so.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Travlane.5948:

the particular build i run…and well for that matter most condi builds can add 7 condis on in the first 2-3 seconds.

But they’ve completely blown their conditions on you initially. Bring Infusion of Shadow and stealth immediately afterward, then restart the fight and play smart while watching your conditions.

If you are going to run a shadow arts build in tpvp you are not going to be contesting a point or pressuring an enemy in stealth. In wvw or hot joins, sure. Tpvp, no.

You give up too much damage and rely on stealth for healing condi removal which allows the other team to cap points on you and simply ignore you. The other team wants you to stealth because that means they are putting pressure on you and you can’t do anything beneficial in stealth.

1. Guardian, every team needs one to sit on a point.
2. Necro, aoe condi spam and lots of cc.
3. Engi, tons of aoe condi spam.
4. Ranger, lots of team condi and revives with spirit build, the new ranger meta.
5, Mesmer, best aoe burst in game.
6. Ele, can be decent bunker or decent burst. Solid all around class.
7-8. Warrior and thief, both can be burst or condi but burst no longer implies insta gib and both condi builds are a joke compared to necro and engi. While both can apply pressure to 1 target, the rest have of classes have way better team support.

I’m not talking about hot joins here. I destroy noobs in hot joins. I’ve 2 shorted guardians in hot joins because they are running some messed up build and don’t react fast enough.

In taking about playing tpvp. Thieves just aren’t that great anymore.

We needed build templates a year ago. Thanks!

OP classes like necro, guardian, engi, ranger.

Thieves are looking like bottom of the barrel to me in spvp. I still prefer thief for wvw roaming.

In spvp our burst is not high enough to take out bunkers.
Stealth builds are fairly pointless because bunkers will win the point on a far point push and hold it while it may take thief over a minute to kill said bunker if he can at all.
Condi builds are a joke in comparison to necro or engi.

We can’t do anything with shadow arts build.
Burst is negated by bunkers and easily countered by necros and engis.
Condi is a joke.

Also, 4 reveal to boot. I am pretty sure anet gave up on this class a long time ago.

I don’t run the blind on stealth anymore. With the new condition meta, you need condi removal for sustainability. I’m assuming this is wvw, so drop the blind and get embrace, rejuv, infusion of shadow. Only. 3 traits worth it in sa atm IMO.

Snaplemouton, you stated earlier that you have no clue what the thief did to you.

This last post you say you have played all classes in spvp to learn everything they can do.

How is it that you don’t know what this thief is doing to you but you claim to know everything about all classes and to be an experienced player?

Clearly one of your statements is a lie. I suggest you revisit the thief.

If you downed the thief in stealth and didn’t keep him down. That’s your own fault. L2p issue there. I down thieves all the time in stealth and maybe 1/1000 they can elude me, if that.

I’m not trying to be mean but you come here posting like thieves are this mystical class that brings death to anything they look at it and then on the other hand you tell us you are an experienced and great player. You are contradicting yourself.

My original assessment stands. You are either a noob or pve noob or you are trolling us.

lol this has got to be a troll or a post by someone who is brand new to the game…

I stopped reading when you said nerf stealth. Are you kidding me? Necros are number 1 class that reveals me out of a refuge and chain fears me after stun break is down to kill me with ease.

TLDR and obvious batnut crazy.

1. Give thieves 3s reveal.
2. Give thieves 3s reveal.
3. Give thieves 3s reveal.

Like what I did there?

We need 4s revealed to go away. All stealth problems solved.

Stealth does nothing in tpvp and only hurts your team.

Sure, hit joins its a little different, but are we really going to make a class worse at tpvp so that noobs in hot joins have an easier time with that class?

Thief can’t suffer anymore nerfs or it becomes the most worthless class if it isn’t already.

They need to buff the stealth thief if anything so it becomes viable build in tpvp. Right now the only viable option is s/d evade and burst. Neither of which use stealth except on rare occasions.

There is a lot wrong with condi thief.

4s revealed.
Burning.
Weakness.
All rest of status condis that other classes can throw at you over and over and we can’t.

Burning I think would go the furthest tho.

I hate the new condi meta. Either move with the meta or quit the game, right?

Condi is king now. Necros have dhuumfire, engis have thier burning on crit also. Guardians have it. Mesmers I think can randomly apply it.

To compete with the condi meta we need burning somewhere. Either on crit on or a pistol #2 or dagger #4.

Just saying, condi thief will never be viable in tpvp unless we can drop condis as fast and as many as necros and engis. Burning would go a long way.

Sounds like necros will still have that overpowered dhuumfire crap.

Maybe thieves can get burning on thier body shot? Seems fair since every other class had burning on crit.

S/D is useless in wvw.

Use dagger/pistol as your main weaponset and d/d as your initial burst.

Roll for the ini? lols.

Shadowstep, Shadowrefuge, Basi Venom, the 3rd utility is up in the air but I usually switch between assassin signet and signet of shadows.

Your first build is a joke right?

You should be running X/30/30/X/X in wvw. I personally like the 0/30/30/10/0 with the movement speed in stealth. Mobility is king in wvw.

TS is a daze not a stun, which means they can still move and dodge. Requires stealth to use, low dps. IMO just not worth doing stealth s/d build in spvp.

Only 2-3 viable builds in spvp.

The s/d evade build for tpvp.
10/30/0/0/30 burst build for hotjoins.
Maybe the X/30/30/X/X build for far point pusher.

d/p + dd is what I run in wvw…

s/d in wvw is useless now with all the nerfs to it.

shortbow isn’t needed when you have perma stealth from d/p

d/d is only used for the initial cnd→steal→backstab, then immediately swap to d/p for the blind field defense…

I just use basi/steal after each other. So like, first burst I use basi without steal, next burst I use steal.

You can burst way more often with the 10/30/0/0/30 build and the burst lands way more often because you generally have some form of CC and boon rip on your target.

Nothing like gibbing someone with stability trying to stomp a teammate :p

I haven’t seen many good staff eles. They are usually glass cannon and I 2 shot them. Same with s/d ele.

Why don’t we all just quit our characters and start playing necros and engis?

Seems like what ANet wants us to do…

Epic.3950:

So what you got outplayed… go back into stealth and do it again.
There are virtually not enough blocks on one character to block you all of the time. And honestly… agis? Thats like me trying to use my most powerful attack on a guardian knowing he has agis up. its dumb. you strip agis and you proceed to slaughtering him.

If it were only that easy and to go back into stealth since it costs 9 init, as the new current burst build is 10/30/0/0/30 the damage from backstab comes from having a high amount init. 2 stealths leave you with almost no init for anything else and a lot less damage. Obviously, you do not play a thief at a high level.

Aegis? It’s not a problem agaisnt a noob, but what the problem is that when a guardian notices a thief break his aegis and then after he stealths he pops his aegis again, effectively cancelling out our elite and 1 hit from assasin signet. That’s already punishment enough for playing smart, and you people want to reveal the thief on top of that?

L2P. Stop crying.

Epic.3950:

And I actually do think stealth should work on points since it takes a real idiot not to realize the point isnt being capped anymore (thief is denying him through stealth) or that a ghost is capping the point. Magical things called aoes could be utilized for this situation as a counter.

Clearly, you don’t understand anything about spvp at all. This would be completely overpowered and you would see every team with a perma stealth/high survivability thief just to stand on points and stop caps from happening.

EDIT: Thief burst is not #1 skill, it’s a combination of things culminating in the backstab actually landing. Mug, Thrill of the Crime, Bountiful Theft, Sleight of Hand Daze, Steal, Blackpowder or CND. Many if not all trait points built around yielding maximum damage. You can’t just go out there with no traits and spam 1 for the win as you make it sound.

EvilSardine.9635:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This would actually break the class. No more burst combos from stealth, I am honestly trying to figure out how many people actually play thief. You could say that is “counter-play” to stealth look at it realistically, and avoid try to avoid the damage.

Just as much as you guys are saying thief is spamming, you want this one thing to keep you safe, against damage that is 100% avoidable.

You’re not making sense.

This won’t break the class. It will only break those who spam backstab and don’t watch for the warrior blocking, or the guardian being SMART and using aegis on his dying teammate to save him from a backstab. The other players in this scenario are “learning to play” but the game favors the broken thief and let’s him spam an attack to clear aegis which won’t even reveal him. It’s quite stupid.

How is a backstab 100% avoidable if you can’t see it coming or block it? Really? 100% avoidable?

P.S. I main a thief. I think it’s absurd that I can spam my backstab like this.

Just because you play a thief doesn’t mean you know jack squat about balance.

Obviously you need to L2P. If you don’t like the mechanics, don’t play a thief.

Reveal only happens on successful hits, not failed ones. It’s how the game works and it’s balanced this way. Move on.

Every other class spam buttons, why should thief be punished for spamming buttons? Oh right, simply because you don’t like it.

L2P.

It’s more of a stand on a point in the middle of a huge fight and spam #3. It’s actually very funny. I would not play it in tpvp. Just hot joins. More of a trololol build, but yea, I killed several people with it.

The 10/30/0/0/30 is viable but requires an experienced player.
You should try 0/30/30/10/0. Gives decent dps and survivability.

That guy was better at it than me, but he came in number one. I only played 1 game and joined late. I was in like #3 or 4.

I was just wondering if anyone had a good trait/skill setup for the 0/0/10/30/30 build.

So I was doing some hot joins and this guy was running condi d/d build and it was hilarious. 0/0/10/30/30, signet malice, dagger storm, caltrops, can’t remember third skill but since been using trickster been using scorpion wire and inf signet.

Shamans amulet for heals/condi.

Does anyone have a good build or build thoughts on this? I tried it out briefly befor going to bed and it was pretty fun. Good change of pace from burst IMO.

I was fighting like 4 people at a time and they couldn’t budge my hp bar.

Klinch, thank you for confirming. I don’t understand why people have to cheat. Game is fun without it IMO. I’m also going to record it next time I see it.

These are just people who don’t know how to play.

What rank is the OP? 12? Seriously, shield block/aegis in conjunction with stealth end skills is balanced. What you are asking is a nerf to thief, again.

The only way block/reveal would apply reveal is if the backstab broke through the block/aegis.

This is balanced already. I lose my basi venom and assassin signet to a good aegis/block more than once in a game. That’s punishment enough for failing a burst. There’s no need to reveal a thief. Should warriors get disarmed for 4s if they don’t block anything with shield stance? No, that’s just silly.

Rance Webster.2635:

… Explain to me, how can you constantly dodge stealth attacks if you can spam them? all I am saying is a small cooldown to stealth attacks so that they won’t get spammed at, so if for example someone manages to evade against something that, well… he can’t even see, then congrats for him, he shouldn’t be punished by the manner of it being useless.
Don’t forget you still got your other skills to use so that the stealth attacks won’t go on cooldown to take down aegis, so currently, your only argument, is that you want to keep your ability to just spam it without needing to time it with the proper skill a thief should have, and let’s be honest here – it’s not like the opponent can see you getting closer, or from which direction.

Also, I may not be playing a thief in PvP because I don’t like to rely on stealth too much, I had my fair share of battles against them in Tpvp, and I know how hard it is to try and dodge something you can’t see coming, but to only go and dodge when you feel like he is about to strike.

L2p. There is already a small cool down on stealth attacks. It’s a 1st or .5s cast time. I forget the exact number but there is a small cd on it.

5s, your suggestion, is not a small cd. In fact that’s huge.

We don’t use stealth to hit you with headshot. We use it for stealth attacks. You can still dodge and block and aegis them. You just need to learn to manage those abilities a little better. I get plenty of failed bursts from these abilities already.

Worst is when I pop my basi/signet right before a guard pops aegis or someone blocks. Those abilities become a waste then.

Stop pushing this issue because its already balanced.

Dodging/blocking/aegis is already very useful against stealth attacks. This is coming from full time thief.

If you played one you would understand why your suggestion would hurt our class too much.

It would have the same impact to your class as of allowing backstab to go through blocks/aegis.

This is a terrible idea. Current inplentation favors neither class and this is balanced.

Salvage and use mats. That it. Can look recipes up on google.

I suggest we make backstab break thru blocks and aegis. Problem solved and a small buff to the most nerfed class in the game.

Honestly, it’s fine the way it is now.

I like my sigil of rage in spvp. It’s like having 2 critical hastes. Works well for me IMO.

Yes, because thieves need another nerf in spvp to negate thier burst. One block from this and bye bye burst. How about, no?

All you have to do is use your shield stance or whatever 2s after thief stealths. You will out last his stealth and he will be visible.

We only get revealed on a successful hit. Aegis and blocks are not successful.

If anything, backstab should break aegis/block.

I don’t care about my rating. I just don’t like fighting premades all the time as a solo q.

I’d never buy a second account just to run solo q. That’s messed up IMO.

SPESHAL.9106:

If you don’t know ways to reduce condition dmg, it’s a L2P issue.

There are tons of traits, utilities, sigils, runes, and healing options that remove conditions or make you totally immune.

The problem is that the game was so heavily weighted to classes with direct damage for so long that all these runes, sigils, etc. were wasted programming because nobody used them.

Now…people come whine on the forum because they can’t deal with conditions without using any of the things in the game that designed to offset conditions.

You can’t have it both ways.

I’m going to give you a tip and this may be quite a shocking revelation given how the game was played for almost a year….

“It’s possible for you to lose 1v1 to condition builds now and specs/professions that rely on conditions are now viable.”

Maybe you haven’t been globalled by a grenade engineer or kill shot by a warrior, but power/crit builds are still dealing massive damage too.

The problem with this game isn’t that condition damage is too high. It’s that direct damage was too high and so they “fixed” it by making conditions equally strong. Now people have BOTH sources of damage to deal with in a fraction of the time needed for average players.

I’ve actually stopped running my condi clears because spending all those points or skill slots into it and then still dieing to condis is frustrating. Felt like a bunch of wasted points.

I went glass cannon instead and just try to avoid condis.

Pre patch I could stay in the middle of a fight with 30sa and fight people and stay alive and keep up with condis. Except wells and nades. Now, it’s not possible. Just rather stay on the fringe and pick people off than try to stealth in and out.

It’s not an l2p issue. Condis and access to condis have been seriously buffed and condi removal has stayed the same.

I’ve adapted, but you explanation is wrong. I just play a different build now because clearing condis was pointless because it didn’t do a good enough job post patch. I was during to a burning every time.

12k crits in wvw are a dime a dozen. Not knocking your build because I run the same thing in spvp. Just saying tho.

I think I got a 15k crit once with this build in wvw a few days ago using d/p.

butch.8136:

DarthDragonVanquisher.6912:

swinsk.6410:

I entered my first tourney ever on my OP necro. I figured maybe I would get to play against some noobs since I’m only in the 90%’s.

Instead I got to fight against jumpers pre-made. Last I check he was rank 1-2. I was not grouped with anyone. We got destroyed.
I’d rather not play than be matched against the #1 team. I’m not that serious lol. Match making logic needs to be changes IMO.

I think people should learn to read better.. Swinsk clearly stated that it was his first tournament ON his OP necro… He tourneys all the time on his thief.. & he is a great thief, seeing as how i field him on my team on a regular basis! (;

K, I was wondering that. But does he really expect character-based ranks/matchmaking? :/

No I don’t really expect it based on character, but I don’t expect as a solo q to get matched against the number one team when my rank is only 90% and not even on leader boards. Even if they are the only team playing, I’d rather get a popup that gives me a choice of declining the game. I’m not one for leaving matches but when the system completely fails like that I’d rather not go through the frustration.

I think when there is no players on that are in your rank it should present you with an option of playing against higher level players or simply bowing out and waiting for people your rank. Currently, you have no choice. If no one is on and jumpers team is playing, that rank 12 guy who just started playing and wanted to get some cool looking tourney gear is going to get ripped and have no idea why. He will probably be turned away from doing tournies. However, if he were given a choice or warning letting him know he was playing against a premade high ranked team and that is all the system could find for him to play. He might not feel so frustrated or he could decline and try again later.

This class is far from overpowered in spvp. Wvw is different in that the risk:reward ratio has a greater gap due to stats.

If you are hitting people for 10k in spvp you are a glass cannon or you are hitting on a glass cannon. If you are hitting people for 10k in wvw you are x/30/30/x/x, not glass cannon build.

I personally run the 10/30/0/0/30 build which is a glass cannon build. Highest hit was 12k bs after popping assassin signet against glass cannon Mesmer.

Hardly over powered because it that Mesmer cause me with half a shatter combo I’d be dead.

IMO, this game is balanced fairly well considering all the crazy abilities in this game. I’d like to see condis stop being so spamable and just more powerful than direct damage in general or have thief condi damage brought in line with necros/engis.

Every time sky hammer comes up in a hot join I go nuts because I can’t swap to my trap/troll build. I love trapping and pulling people into those disappearing plates.

I’d donate 20 bucks if you told me you would get it done this month.