Guild Wars 2

I gave up on x/d shortly after 4s revealed. I’m going to guess no one uses 4 button because 2 button is way better.

Dancing dagger is a joke now. It needs increased range and speed. Maybe chilled instead of cripple to be useful. Otherwise heartseeker will always be a better option.

Grats on 70. Pheonix looks cool.

People keep telling me that soon ranks will be erased and replaced by “tiers”. I have no idea what that means. I want 50 before that happens tho!

Engi has a higher skill cap but is just as powerful or more than thief.

Some people like hard to play classes like engi. Some prefer easy mode like a spirit ranger. Others prefer stealth like a thief. Thief shouldn’t be nerfed because you found out engi is hard to play. According to your logic most ranger builds and ele builds should be nerfed.

I’d like to use sword/ axe + great sword. Like my shadowblade from Daoc.

1) d/p, sb
2) 10/30/0/0/30
3) spvp

1) d/p, s/d
2) 0/30/30/10/0
3) wvw

+1 for this. It’d be cool.

Cnd is very unreliable, especially in spvp where guardians are giving teammates aegis and people spamming blinds. Truly unreliable in spvp. Better to go with bp+hs running d/p.

Best direct damage build for wvw is d/p with 0/30/30/10/0 IMO.

High mobility, high dps with sustain.

L2p.

Why does every thread that is some huge nerf disguised as “possible change” or “adjustment”?

No, please stop trying to get our class nerfed! S/d is a lot of spamming 3, does that mean it should be nerfed into oblivion and make it unusable? No!

Warriors just spam stuns in a row. Surely, according to your logic of brain dead play this should also be nerfed. How about d/d ele? That’s even more brain dead rotate through attunement a spamming whatever skills aren’t on cd, way more spammy than s/d. Lets nerf that too, right?

Your suggestion is as rediciulusly kitten as the above.

I played earlier and I got the same guardian on my team like 5 times in a row. Same ele 3. Lucky they were decent.

Thieves excel at camp taking, sentry killing, and roaming in wvw.

Zerging, yes utterly useless unless you like giving blast finishers to your zerg mates to help them get more bags and you less.

Loading screen needs to be fixed!

You die in a tpvp/solo arena and you wait 15s to revive and then another 10 to finish loading screen.

Did the thief pop any signets before hitting you? How many might stacks did he have?

Can we make a thread complaining about invulns ? This thread is dumb. IMO

TyPin.9860:

@swinsk.6410
I have no issues fighting thieves. Your l2p comment serves nothing and shows you didn’t understand the intention I have, or u just wanted to add some insult in the end, serving no value in a disussion. Yes there are traps, but they are a bad desing. Why should any1 be forced to use supply (and if it has to be used often money) to coutner stealth. But countering stealth is not what is intended anyway and as I said, on a high level of player skill, stealth is not an issue any more. I wish to have a balance on a lower skill level. Casual thiev against any other casual profession. But that balance doesn’t exist. On casual levels theives have an advantage. And using CnD and HIS together would still be possible. You first would have to time your skills, for the stealth wouldn’t stack. And if you time it good enough, you would drop out of stealth for a mini second after CnD and reaply new stealth again with HIS and stealth exhaustion would even come into play, but you would be seen for a blink of an eye (depending on your timing). A minor effect imho. As a mesmer, I use that strategy all the time (cuz as mentioned, many mesmer stealth skills don’t steack stealth) and it works fine with some pratice. I might test that in real fight situations with theif and see if it affects play.

If you are against my suggestions, do you have others how to balance thief on casual level? Or does every player have to l2p just to defeat even casual thief would then need to time their stealthing skills and it would be esaier to implement in the game.

What’s wrong with stealth traps? You spend some supply and reveal for 30s. You need that supply for anything else if your roaming? You don’t need to use every time you face a thief, but the ones who stay stealthed more often than not it works very well against. Learn to use it properly. L2p.

What’s this casual player theme you keep bringing up? Does that mean you only play 3 hrs a week or does that mean you are a completely uncoordinated kitten? This game already has a super low skill cap. We don’t need to lower it anymore. IMO, a noob guardian will destroy a noob thief. Seems balanced to me.

Stop comparing thief stealth to Mesmer. Mesmers have clones and invulns to hide behind. Thieves only have stealth unless you play evade thief which doesn’t work out so well in wvw and similarly you only have one form of defense. Spvp is better for those.

Even if you time your second stealth perfectly you are visible and against a noob it wouldn’t be a big deal, but against a really good player they will mess you up with aoe and autos etc. while you want to balance for noobs you also have to realize there are skilled players. Most don’t wvw cause that’s where noobs go. Most do spvp/tpvp. You should try it. Thief is actually really balanced across the board and in fact could use a few buffs.

Go play with thief in spvp/tpvp. They are not even close to the strongest class. Thieves suck at zerging. 900 range on shortbow = dead thief with no invulns. Even with som you can’t regen enough life for all the aoe damage you receive. Compare that to necro with the aoes and range. Great, you can give blast finisher, but that doesn’t help you out personally because you really can’t get close enough without getting exploded.

Yes, it would affect cnd, lots of people use cnd and then HIS or blinding powder to stack a few extra seconds of stealth.

Saying that you play it as much as your Mesmer means nothing. I play thief and only thief. Wvw and spvp. I have a considerable more amount of hours actually fighting other players than you. Roaming in wvw is what thief does best out of all types of gameplay. Aside from that, they are not as strong and cannot take any kind of nerf or they become unviable using stealth builds.

You know they added stealth traps right? He’ll I get them for free when gaining rank in wvw. Any time a thief is stealthing too much just drop one of these. I’ve done it plenty of times and every single time I’ve used it, it has resulted in a dead thief trying to drop every form if stealth to live. It’s hilarious to see a thief use refuge and nothing happens. There is a counter already in the game to stealth stacking and you still want to nerf it?

L2p.

Are you talking about wvw or spvp? Cause thief is the strongest in wvw roaming due to stats and foods and easy stacks off npcs.

Your changes would kill a wide variety of thief builds.

Only viable build would be 1 hit wonder or evade s/d.

What would thieves do in wvw after your nerfs btw? They can’t Zerg, they couldn’t 1v1 after this nerf because we need to stack stealth to deal with certain builds of certain classes.

Clearly, you’ve played 10 hrs on a thief in wvw only and because its strong at roaming you think it needs a nerf.

Try zerging with it, it’s useless compared to anything else.
Try spvp where capping points matters, not just hot joins. Try tournaments. That will give perspective.

Can’t just go to wvw and then post here asking for nerfs because this class is strong in 1 aspect of the game while other areas not so much.

Let’s not even get started on pve …

Yes, s/d would be affected. Can’t use shadow refuge and then HiS for few extra seconds or blinding powder + something else.

Thieves are not easy mode OP.

The best 2 builds for wvw will be a p/d condi build. Pros are good survivability against multiple opponents. Cons are slow kills and you beat an ele because if thier condi clears or a d/p thief with condi clears.

Second build is d/p + anything, I use d/d for the cnd→steal→bs combo then switch back to d/p. d/p pros are you can beat any class or build 1v1. Cons are its hard to beat multiple opponents unless your not running glass cannon armor.

I prefer d/p because its more fun to me.

I suggest trying each build out in spvp before committing to it in wvw,

You need condi removal to beat condi thieves. How is that not obvious?

Either use your #2 skill or drop your shortbow for d/p and get shadows embrace from shadow arts line.

I run full berserker and scholars with 0/30/30/10/0 and have never had a problem with condi thieves. I stealth just as much ad they bleed and I regen more hp than they deal. I backstab for 8k even with thier tanky condi gear.

I don’t play with sound. It annoys me. All those clinking and swiftness sounds, groans and moans. It would be nice if you could turn off all non-useful sounds.

I just listen to my spotify when I play.

Sounds like solo que of noobs.

P/p is so terrible because the auto attack is condi and the dual skill is power.

P/p can’t decide if it wants to be condi or power. Crap defenses other than bp. Body shot and auto attack are near useless with p/p. uses way too much init. No stealth. Damage really isn’t that good and easy to dodge/interrupt it.

Thief in wvw Zerg is the most useless class.
In roaming its one of the strongest.
In spvp it’s not the most useless but it’s not the strongest either.

Could thief use some buffs? I think so…

I had a really hard time leveling up but that was mostly because I didn’t understand the game. I didn’t know even spvp existed until I was level 80.

Honestly, doing some spvp will help you out a lot with using your weapon skills and abilities at the right time in a fight.

I’d probably use d/p and s/p if I were to do it all over again. For doing hearts and skill point fights etc. maybe shortbow for champions and bosses.

Leveling up for me was really tough. I almost quit several times. I didn’t understand the game at all. Practice in spvp. It will help you out a lot.

I really don’t see a problem with initiative. Thief are supposed to be able to spam skills when needed or use multiple different skills in rapid succession as needed.

Just like other classes rotate skills in rapid succession we do the same with the ability to use the same skill more than once.

I don’t use any init regen in spvp and only infusion in wvw. Using init regen gimps your damage. Always a trade off, it’s not like thief gets everything for free.

There is nothing wrong with thief. Why do people keep wanting to change it? If anything, they need some love.

This ability has been like this since the game was released. People are just realizing this now?

I’ve been stealthing out of entangles since I first started playing. CND off them works great. Can also BP+HS or hit your HiS heal. Refuge, anything will do.

Sil.4560:

I’m reminded of why I don’t bother with this forum anymore. What a broken record. Some guy comes in asking if there’s a possible bug because of the amount of damage he’s receiving with a huge amount of armor and it’s just the same “L2P”, insults, etc. over and over and over.

I’m tires of hearing this response. The OP did nothing to test, provides no data or screen shots. Barely told us anything about anything except the fact he’s getting owned by heartseeker. Called a bug and posted here.

Seriously, what do you expect to get when you come here simply complaining about our profession?

I’d expect no less if I went onto the warrior boards. And complained about skull crack and then called a bug ontop of that. I’d never do such a thing because I have a much better understanding of the game than the OP.

I have no sympathy for noobs who complain. Especially ones who try to disguise thier complaint under the term bug without actually providing evidence or testing of said bug.

I play thief and to me mesmers seem easier to kill lately. I’m running d/p 10/30/0/0/30 sleight if hand build now compared to the old 25/30/0/0/15. So maybe it’s the new the build I’m running or maybe Mesmer got nerfed, I don’t know.

In general, I think condi spam in this game is too powerful. Engi with nades and necro both are just so powerful you don’t not want that class part of your team. It’s like a must have. Same with bunk guardian. Thief, Mesmer, warrior are not must haves. Spirit rangers are becoming a new must have IMO.

So you fill 3 spots with guard, nec, engi. 4, if you get spirit ranger to bunk home. That last spot can really be filled with anything, but people are going to take the condi spam over anything else for the most part because no class has enough condi removal to keep up with the spam.

People don’t like thieves because they try to run berserker or half berserkers items in wvw and qq when a full berserker thief hits them for 10k+. Wvw stats and foods just make everything over the top. We gain such high offense between the bloodlust and food and stats compared to spvp. Thieves are perfectly fine and balanced in spvp. Wvw is just different. People are meant to die quickly there because its. 100 vs 100 not 8v8. Thief can’t Zerg for anything. Worst zerging class in game. They are only good at dropping bodies in small skirmishes. Everyday, some noob wants to take that away from them. If u ask me thieves need buffs not nerfs in wvw because its supposed to be about zerging and they are hands down the worst class at it. In spvp 4s reveal could go back to 3.

Any kind if teleport in stealth does this. Shadowstep, inf arrow, etc.

Also mass invis wears off before your refuge or something will have the same effect.

Afaik, it’s been in game since release. You get used to it, just remember you are stilted until you attack or timer wears off.

I think thief is a lot harder to play than some of the other classes.

Honestly, I think engi is one of the hardest to play for me.

I really like the thief class because to play well it requires fast reactions and actions. It’s a very fast paced class compared to a bunker anything. It’s not always the same rotation of skills over and over like an ele.

Thieves are not OP. thieves just require you to react very quickly. I have 12k health as a thief and I can get away from a backstab. I have to hit shadowstep right away tho or I die.

Try playing spvp, thieves are a lot less deadly there. No food or extra stats.

Just don’t roam in wvw. It’s the only place thieves excel at.

I run full berserk and scholar runes. 030/30/10/0.

I run shadows embrace also which is key and d/p. the only thing that damages me from guardians is the burning. Everything else is negated by blinds. When your low back off and regen but you need to land those 8k backstabs. 2 of those plus some auto attacks and your going to win. It’s a longer fight than normal but don’t be afraid to stack some stealth up and regen. Use basi or thieves guild.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Well you could easily test it out with a friend to see if the skill is bugged or not.

Ya, think?

The reason our class is in the gutter every patch is because of people like this guy.

That thief prob was using d/d or s/d. It’s funny this warrior is complaining about heartseeker when blind is what really kills warriors. Tells me this guy hasn’t got a clue what is going on and he’s probably never stepped foot in spvp.

Lol, no math, no proof, no nothing but whiny warrior.
I have more hp and tough than anyone bla bla and I get heartseekered for high damage so clearly it’s a bug because I don’t like it bla bla.

You do realize that thieves are the exact opposite of your tough/vit build? They have incredibly high power and crit rate. Thus, following your logic it would be safe to say thieves should be 1 shotting all classes.

Bootzilla.4280:

yski.7642:

Thieves also have arguably the best mobility in the game and even after all the nerfs their burst is nothing to sneeze at. Finally there’s the fact a stealth builds can take on an entire zerg in WvW without too much of a problem.

True facts, Thieves are definitely the most mobile/easy-escape class in the game at the moment.

yski.7642:

So what’s all this complaining about?

Great question.

Thieves are the best solo/roamer in wvw.
Thieves are worst zvz in wvw.
Thieves are low tier in spvp, which is what this thread is about.

No one cares about wvw where 90% of your time is spent pveing 10% spent fighting other players.

Viking Jorun.5413:

AoE Condi: Caltrops. Good day; learn your class.

You think 1 condi that is aoe on a high cd counts as aoe condis? Please compare caltrops to grenades or marks. We have 1 ability that had already been nerfed once and it only applies 1 condition, 2 if you count the hinder. It’s hardly a spamable aoe and easily avoidable.

You need to learn this class IMO.

Your analysis is way off putting necro near the bottom. Here is a more accurate rating.

1. Necro
2. Guardian
3. Engineer
4. Ranger
5. Elementalist
6. Mesmer
7-8. Thief/Warrior

This is based on spvp/tpvp, where team usefulness and capping/holding points comes before mobility and single target dps. Mesmers only so low because the current meta is a all condi and mesmers get rolled by that even tho they have the highest aoe burst.

Thieves just suck because they can’t do aoe condis or aoe physical burst. They are all single target. IMO, this 4s reveal needs to be reverted and a strong hard look at all our weaponsetts needs to take place to bring then in line with d/p. we need burning as a condi to compete with the condi meta. Possibly more base damage on everything.

Yea that’s just wierd. I rarely see that many thieves and high ranked ones at that matter. IMO that was a fluke. I normally have 2-5 thieves max and usually only 1-2 are decent.

I mostly see necros, rangers, guards, warriors are on the uprise. Thieves and mesmers seem to be dieing out in hot joins to me, IMO.

Engis are always there.

Thief needs buffs to the class not nerfs.

I play d/p because d/d truly only had 3/5 decent skills while d/p has 5/5.

4s reveal killed any x/d stealth play also.

There is a lot wrong with the thief, but it needs more patch love than hate to fix it…

Thiefs are bottom tier class everywhere except roaming in wvw.

Clearly you are a noob who got ganked in wvw one too many times.

Thief blind doesn’t need nerf. It’s part if our defense. We don’t have endure pain or mist form or elixir s, etc. All we got is blinds and stealth and evades. All which can be countered, unlike a endure pain or mist form, etc.

L2p or nerf it and give thieves invulns.

It still ticks for about 100 which is the same as a bleed. Arguing over technicality when what I say is true. You can’t stop it from doing damage to you unless you have condi removal.

HiS is supposed to remove all damage over time condis. Torment is damage over time.

You have some dumb choices for traits.

Dagger training should be Dual skills instead, you aren’t using a dagger anywhere.

What’s fleet shadow for? You are using S/P which has no access to stealth. That should go also.

If you want a S/P build for spvp use 10/30/0/0/30.

Any smart warrior will swap out a util for fear me on that map just like I swap my signet for scorpion wire. That map is all about knock backs, fear and such. Super fun map. Build templates are really needed for it IMO.

I only run one build in wvw and all I do is solo stomp on people.

0/30/30/10/0.

Refuge, shadowstep, signet if shadows/assassin, basi venom.

Executioner, crit haste, side strike or furious retal.
Embrace/infusion/rejuv
Fleet shadow

Run the superior maintenance oils and bowl of curry butternut squash soup food.

D/p + d/d

Cnd→steal→bs then swap d/p and finish them off.

As a thief who steals animals every game if you want to counter it then just don’t go for your animal at the start. As soon as I start soloing it come attack me. Ignore the animal and defend it with your home bunker. If you attack it with 2-3 I’m going to backstab→steal combo with mug and 1 shot it while its at 20%.

Omg, a thief is useful on a map, must nerf it!!!

Burning just hits too hard, IMO.

It’s the reason necros are over the top at the moment, engis, and pretty much any condi build that can get burning.

Reason condi thieves are terrible is because they don’t have access to burning.

I’d like to see this condition be brought in line with the others. Won’t hurt guardians too much because all they do anyways is stand on a point and revive other players.