Guild Wars 2

then perhaps you should reread through your post history, it is clear you have been very unhappy with GW2 for a very long time to the point where you refer to the fact it offers you nothing. SO HOT did not ruin it for you at all, especially since you got an addition 6 months life out of a game you disliked so much apparently.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Again, please don’t discuss the posters, but the actual discussion. I’m not going to get into a debate with you about it either.

Here, I’ll help:

I played GW2 since release.. but after HoT left a really bad taste in my mouth I haven’t played for nearly a year.. and I really doubt I’d buy another expansion after regretting my previous purchase.

In some ways, I miss how Heart of Thorns was originally. Not all, but some. Despite it, I have played every day . . . for the dailies at least.

I wish there was more to Heart of Thorns, but I didn’t stop playing it. Unlike some other games that didn’t hold my interest for even an hour.

For me a mmorpg is about a sum of its parts. I don’t actually spend a lot of time in HOT zones, but it is nice that the game offers a different gameplay style that i can and do delve into sometimes, which I feel is the point of persistent worlds. Hot added some great stuff, some was less successful, but the key thing is that it built apon GW2, not at the expense of GW2 which is often what you see in other mmorpg like WOW where expansions rip the heart out of older content and simplify rather than enrich the virtual world for the avatars that live there.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Please discuss the topic not each other.

well the guy is clearly posting arguments that is more to do with his dislike of GW2 in general than the actual thread at hand.

To generalise though, its perception of HOT that is skewed by something, and that is relevant to a thread called ‘did hot ruin GW2’ It is interesting characteristic that some players have difficulty of letting go of a MMORPG when they don’t enjoy it, especially where its free to play like GW2.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

It ruined the game for me in that it was a huge letdown.

You’ve been complaining about the game since long before HoT. Like years. So how is it HOT ruined the game for you when you were so unhappy before HoT?

Lies.

No it didn’t, you have been complaining about the game for well over a year..continuously, which is a strange thing to do in itself right?

More lies.

lol its in your post history..

Manasa Devi.7958:

It ruined the game for me in that it was a huge letdown.

No it didn’t, you have been complaining about the game for well over a year..continuously, which is a strange thing to do in itself right?

In fact, you played HOT for at least what 6 months, that’s an expansion on a game that you previously stated had nothing left for you to do??

ReaverKane.7598:

So what about people that bought the game PRE-HOT and are now stuck with crappy builds?
Yeah sure its cool to say “freelos shouldn’t be equal to B2P”, but what about the old B2P people that got shafted? The expansion definetly wasn’t enough bang for our buck, and some people didn’t appreciate that others get the same content for half the price simply because they started late. Adding insult to insult isn’t really the best way to ensure people continue playing. (FYI i own 2 accounts, one Deluxe Core+ Ultimate HoT other Regular Core, plus i paid for my brother’s accounts also Deluxe+Ultimate, so yeah, i paid for this game, and some gems too, but i still think that HoT pricing and the marketing was unreasonable and unfair to older costumers, and hope the next one either has like 3-4 times the content or half the price, or its the last i’ll pay for GW2).

Also what about people, like me, that loved to play Ranger pre-HoT but dislike playing Druid? We still get a sub-par build compared to other elite specced players.

The expansions costs on average £3 a month. If you cant afford that with a game that charges no sub then you have bigger priorities and worries than a spec in a game i suspect.

Or support the game and pay for the thing you want.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Avster.1935:

Specialization is THE BEST way to horizontally expand classes.

In theory, but not in practice as we’ve seen with HoT.

only if your a meta monkey, otherwise you can indeed mix the new talents with the old . The point however was about horizontal expansion of skills like GW2 as apposed to the WOW model for example with its ‘talent pruning’ every expansion to allow for vertical power progression.

lol right, I know quite a few people who still play wow, and the last 2 expansions are where the ‘term ’content drought’ originated from. WOW is well known for providing the least amount of content out of all the AAA mmorpg, and worse is the most expensive – a model of how a mmorpg should not be developed. WOW also destroys its own content backlog with every expansion – last expansion it was all the old zones, crafting, gathering and social interaction with the universally loathed garrison. WOW is the scourge of MMORPG and has championed many of the destructive behaviors and practices we see today.

The argument that WOW (£13+ a month cost, no content in a year) is more value than the £3 a month for GW2 or any other mmorpg is laughable.

Deathrubber.3861:

hey as i play pvp only i love the show the game to my mates and some of them tried it out. but after a while i realized there is practically no pvp without buying hot.
vanilla>no chance>no fun. so all of them stoped playing after a while (ofc, i wouldnt pay 40bucks for some traitlines for the new game). myself woulf even spend 100bucks for guild wars if its worth it just to thank u anet but new players wont.
i think its sad bc guild wars pvp is beautiful and i like to play it with my mates so why not make pvp fully provided? less money in the first place but way more players and money eventually.

if they are new to the game, buying HOT gives the whole game + hot, thats a hell of a lot of content for a box price and no sub.

Sird.4536:

Sitting at over 300% and not seen any difference in drops since launch.

Imagine watching the hour hand on a clock, now imagine increasing its speed by a minute % you cant see it, but its going faster. This is what you are doing, you are trying to ‘see’ an increase in change without a meaningful sample size.

ProtoGunner.4953:

It’s still too little content. You can’t deny that. Anyone who states otherwise is just whiteknighting this fact. However, I enjoyed the content I played and I well played a couple of 100 hours out of it. But that’s it, there’s not much else to do. No dungeons, only one raid (which is great imo). Also they sold fractals as the new 5man content without adding one single fractals in almost one year after expansion… Even small companies who do FTP games add more dungeons. Of course they are simple but Anet tends to produce either an over fancied complex thing or nothing. Why not just give people what they want? They don’t have to re-invent the wheel. Just give us meaty dungeons with a lot of hard hitting mobs and a few bosses (and some unique rewards) and I am happy. I still love the old dungeons and do them quite often.

a couple hundred hours out of a box price is very good value for a single player game (30-100 avg) never mind a mmorpg. Many many players get a lot more value out of HOT over and above that. Compare to Legion, a week and you were back to farming instances for ilevel with wrecked gathering/crafting/social aspects – a very non holistic design strategy.

Many modern younger players do not understand the concept of layering content and systems in MMORPG and are not capable of taking a holistic view., and there lies the problem. I also love the old dungeons and wvw and spvp, and I still play them because the rewards feed into new goals i have from HOT (achieves/legendaries mats/learning new build setups/new award systems/Masteries) This is what I mean by a holistic view.

and im saying that £35 an expansion averages out at less than £3 a month in total versus any other mmo out there – its great value. this is not a single player game, its a mmorpg, very different model, and the expansion is not built in isolation. Many like Hot and think its value for money, and since Anet are sticking with the model, evidently the statistics bear this out.

If you want a true valuation, calculate number of hours played/£ per month.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr Magic Find matters over the lifetime of your gaming; it means your loot will be modestly better on average. Over any shorter period, there aren’t any guarantees. Anyone can be unlucky and anyone can get lucky.

TexZero.7910:

I’m well aware that it means over a longer period of time it should mean it’s better, what I’m saying is that it doesn’t.

What’s your evidence that it doesn’t?

TexZero.7910:

That the due to the way it works, the amount of outliers in the current system current outweighs the intended statistical average even over a “lifetimes” play.

Again, what’s your evidence? Do you have data for anyone’s “lifetime of play”? Do you have data for even a month of your gaming, never mind anyone else’s? What is the statistical average to which you want to compare your results?

I collect tons of data about my gaming and even I don’t have a month’s worth of data about foe drops; it’s just way too tedious to collect.

TexZero.7910:

Imagine yourself in that 4-5% that is constantly unlucky….

No, I can’t imagine that because I have no way of knowing if I’m that group or not — nor does anyone else. People are extraordinarily bad at measuring lucky streaks

For example: not that long ago, I forged a set of 120 masterwork weapons and got a single promotion and I was convinced ‘something’ had been nerfed, since the expected average should have been 6 — felt bad, man.

5 minutes later, I picked up another 32 and forged those. I should have gotten 1 or 2 rares; instead, I got 8. And my human reaction wasn’t: “oh wow, that was extraordinary” — instead, it was “right, I was due that, because of the bad rolls 5 minutes ago.” The former is true (that was a good streak); the latter is not (RNG doesn’t care about the luck you had for breakfast).

TexZero.7910:

Now you can see why they say magicfind means jack all.

No, that doesn’t show me why some people say MF means jack all — it’s an example of how people misunderstand RNG and MF. People that collect data have show it means something; people who don’t collect data feel that it doesn’t. But feelings are not evidence; they are just a good motivator for doing more research.

TexZero.7910:

Imagine yourself in the 30% that is somewhere just outside of that but not at the “average” its still feels real bad.

Here’s the thing: most people with just average luck feel as if they have bad luck. They remember bad streaks; they discount average streaks entirely and barely remember good streaks.

It’s not meaningful, statistically, to say that it “feels bad” — that’s a useful thing for Mike O’Brian to consider when deciding whether make a skin RNG-based. However, it does not help to determine if MF matters in the long run to most people or not.

TexZero.7910:

If your near average or above it it feels fine

Actually, no. People near average also feel like they have bad luck a lot of the time, too. Even people with good luck sometimes are convinced it’s not that good, because, as I’ve said, they remember the bad streaks more strongly than the good ones.

We’re just really bad at evaluating how lucky (or unlucky) we are.

TexZero.7910:

….however that doesn’t mean the system at play is working as it should be.

How people feel doesn’t have anything to do with whether the system is working as intended.

---

All of the above is a distraction: MF works. All controlled tests show that more MF delivers, on average, modestly better loot than if you don’t have it. (Since it only applies to foe drops, it only affects a tiny fraction of containers — mostly those that are intended to replace foe drops for PvP reward tracks.)

It’s an entirely separate question as to whether RNG is a good method for distributing loot. The consensus is usually: no, not really; it’s just less bad than any other single system. Somewhat less bad than RNG is a mix of RNG + coin + scavenger hunt + tokens, with no one agreeing about what makes for the best mix.

The best system, is the best of both worlds, a token based system with a RNG element, just enough predictable drops so you don’t feel is as if bad luck means you dont progress, and just enough RNG that drops and opening boxes are interesting. The nonsense that some people are some how disadvantaged in the luck department due to a bug or mechanic is really born out of ignorance of programming and probability.

TexZero.7910:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr Magic Find matters over the lifetime of your gaming; it means your loot will be modestly better on average. Over any shorter period, there aren’t any guarantees. Anyone can be unlucky and anyone can get lucky.

I’m well aware that it means over a longer period of time it should mean it’s better, what I’m saying is that it doesn’t. That the due to the way it works, the amount of outliers in the current system current outweighs the intended statistical average even over a “lifetimes” play.

Imagine yourself in that 4-5% that is constantly unlucky….Now you can see why they say magicfind means jack all. Imagine yourself in the 30% that is somewhere just outside of that but not at the “average” its still feels real bad. If your near average or above it it feels fine….however that doesn’t mean the system at play is working as it should be.

Your basing your theory that outliers are not outliers based on what facts? – anecdotal story telling in gaming forums? ‘feeling’ has nothing to do with probability, its the overall data distribution that matters. Even if Outliers were getting skewed by some flaw, that doesn’t detract from the benefit of MF, even the unlucky Outlier gets benefit from MF.

Rush is Right.9723:

also the length of time they have been there without being killed. .

That would be a very odd and expensive thing to process and maintain, how do you know this out of curiosity?

Kuja.2503:

I’m super late to the party but here are my thoughts! I bought this game years ago and thought I’d get back into it as they have the expansion.. until I saw that the devs are saying the £35 price tag is for the expansion alone!

In what world is £35 an acceptable price for an expansion with so little content? I would have paid £10 max for this, as I have already sunk £30 into the core game. Having no cheap upgrade option has put me off indefinitely. What’s more is Anet have said each future expansion will be similarly priced, so if I wanted the first two expansions I would end up paying £30 core game, £35 expansion 1, £35-40 expansion 2 or over £100. This shouldn’t be acceptable just because it is an MMO- thousands of other games offer the same amount of playtime.

Sorry Anet but I’m taking this extra £70 and using on games which are several generations ahead of GW2, which will keep me busy for hundreds more hours.

i will do the basic math for you shall I.

Average price (expansion + min payment per month to maintain and play characters on server):

GW2 = £3.00 a month
Other AAA MMO £13 a month

Now add on to that the average AAA mmo invalidates all the old content with their expansion doe to gear levelling, GW2 does not.

Clearly £3.00 is far cheaper than any other AAA MMORPG out there so the root cause of you post is not the cost, its actually your dislike of HOT in the guise of a price complaint, in which case you wouldnt buy it – so whats the problem?

auromancer is fun, the issue is that auromancer is the only viable build at the moment and being stuck to 1 build will always make that build less interesting over time. On the brighter side outside spvp the builds are rich and diverse, spvp just needs a tweak.

zinkz.7045:

Iason Evan.3806:

Seems to me like you found the perfect placement In an ideal world, this is what would happen to every player at some point. All their matches would be competitive.

Look at the scores of his matches, look at how many have scores that are 500 to around 300 or less, sure sometimes a match can be competitive with that sort of score, especially on Foefire, but most times it just means it is pretty one sided, so really it doesn’t look competitive and more importantly fun, at all.

the match win rate is 50%. per game its irrelevant, a 500 v 200 usually means one side has capitulated. 500v 495 etc games are extremely rare in all mmorpg games that why there are usually achievements associated with tight scores.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

The map is a mess. Full of dead ends, anything that looks close to you will inevitably be on an upper or lower level that requires coming from a completely unrelated location because only one route leads there, or necessitate knowing about some mushroom or updraft route to access the area, this route itself usually requiring heading to a seemingly completely unrelated area to get started. The minimap is rendered basically useless as there are too many overlapping levels, with too many paths that make unannounced level changes and too many routes that look to be going somewhere only to forcibly redirect due to a wall that is basically invisible on the minimap. Even the roads are almost useless, switching up and down and winding past each other such that what looked like it was the road to one place actually leads to a completely different place. The wallows help a little, but only a little as inevitably the place you need to be is between the wallows and can’t be accessed without running around to other far away points. The waypoints are too few and too far between, and many parts of the map require extensive foot travel from the nearest waypoint or wallow to reach, through often very infested grounds that can’t be safely traversed solo, not that there is any indication of this issue before you are half an hour in and just wiped and have to start all over. The whole mess is almost unnavicable without a guide or without spending unending hours memorizing the layout, completely defeating the purpose of having a map in the first place.

A complicated multidimensional map is only a ‘mess’ in your mental map until you make an effort to get to know it, then you get rewarded. The other end of the spectrum is a flat zone with no complications. GW2 has dozens if zones that satisfy the latter, diversity is good, i.e maps that offer different styles of game play that evolves as your skill grows is a good thing.

lets put it into perspective, GW2 offers:

28 or so ’flat zones.
a couple maps that focuses on meta events
3 new zones that are a mixture of layered and meta driven.
1 zone that is almost dedicated exclusively to large groups (dragon)

Whats better, choice with ^^ or 30x zones that are 1 dimensional and simple to learn?

reintroducing old skins with the equivalent effort with new content is perfectly fair, if it took x hours play and x skill 5 years ago, it should take the same now (with new or old content) – all is happy, old school and new players. The danger ofc is the WOW car crash of a model where something that took x hours and x skill 5 years ago now takes 4 minutes by aoe farming bosses etc.

Osteg.8915:

Progress in GW2

lol so you have hit the perfect point where you have reached the cusp of your skill level where you are balanced at 50%, thats a rare and beautiful thing in PVP, whats the issue? you know the higher you go the more the percentage will drop and so you will float back to this 50/50 point, unless your behaviour changes ofc (i.e get frustrated, lost concentration, then start dipping below 50% until you re balance, or get better)

There are a number of factors:

1. Risk that market changes, average dev time is 5 years + for an AAA mmorpg
2. Cost/benefit -would 5 years of GW3 development be covered by replacement of GW2 with GW3?
3. When is it needed, i.e when should focus switch from expanding GW2 to GW3?

point 3 – new version of mnmorpg generally means expansion of IP and new/modified engine/new classes/ new skills. I would imagine most would want the devs to focus on expanding the GW2 universe and content over the next 5 years. gGfx wise it is already gorgeous, and customer PC’s move on in terms of performance each year so that facet is moot.

So for me an educated guess would be that they will start developing it in 5-10 years, with an eta of 2025-2030

RP harkens back to the roots of RPGs, always has my respect as long as it doesn’t mean weirdo running about in panties

ProtoGunner.4953:

I have no money issue, it’s okay to charge for one pack with expansion, that’s pretty normal. In WoW new players won’t pay for most old expansions, too. Don’t know what’s all the fuzz about.

But I must admit that 50€$ is extremely high priced for such a small expansion. Only four maps, no single dungeon, one raid on the PvE side. No, that’s really thin. And now 8-9 months into the ‘expansion cycle’ we don’t have any additional stuff like new maps etc. I hope they’ll do it better with the next expansion and with a reasonable price tag.

Compare average yearly cost including expansions against every other AA mmorpg, its the most realist ready reckoner, and shows GW2 to be far and away the cheapest.

Spicebounty.1475:

I can’t believe how many players are defending the nature of MMO grinds on this thread! You would think OP was asking ArenaNet to banish any and all effort to achieve anything from GW2.

Honestly, If the bragging rights and fulfillment of working long term to obtain any legendary ain’t some part your motivation then its probably not worth the farm FOR YOU individually. I myself am working towards Ascended gear and have no intention to craft a legendary because its not worth it…for me, however, another player may find those legendary items a perfect goal to strive for.

root issue is the influx of players into the genre 5-10 years to games that presented themselves as mmoRPG while not actually being that at all. The games advertised themeselves as mmorpg, and therefore player go about ‘expecting’ things from a totally different genre of game. RPG’s are about building your character (and not necessarily power) with a mixture of short, mid, long and legendary objectives.

rather than fearing their immortality would it not be easier to cc/ burst their 13k health?

Would be great to have other viable builds though, sceptre needs the love for e.g.

tolunart.2095:

vesica tempestas.1563:

Option 1, you feel like you must farm something over and over all or fall behind the power curve/ be disadvantaged , e.g wow etc. If you feel like you MUST do a thing and you dont enjoy it then thats a grind.

Option 2, you do not fall behind any form of curve if you dont farm a thing, incentive is therefore personal desire. You therefore choose to farm for things that you like, this is not a grind, its a long term goal. I.e GW2 skins

The main problem is that many players have been trained by sub-based games (like WoW) to view all MMOs as Option 1. Therefore they consider Ascended/Legendary/Culture Tier 3/whatever is rarest or most expensive to be mandatory whether it’s needed or not. Then complain that they are “forced” to get these things, when in fact the only person forcing that player is himself. Because this attitude is basic to their concept of MMOs, they are blind to the contradiction and unable to separate their compulsions from the game design.

For additional irony, once these goals are obtained in GW2, there is no gear reset or additional tier coming to begin the process over again (at least before raids/Legendary armor gave them a new long-term goal). So these players tend to quit the game soon after because they are bored without anything to work for.

I would agree with this, they have been trained to race to be ‘the man’ with the top gear. They haven’t adjusted (or is that unlearned) their behavior and cannot see that their problems are self inflicted. i.e they appear to be choosing to do things in a game that they regard as a negative and label as grinding. The question they should ask themselves, is why do something in a game that you do not enjoy?

They are simply items that are prestigious for some because it represents a long journey for them. Nothing worse than a game disrespecting someone effort in game by have someone else buy the items. If they want to buy things, buy other skins, they are just pixels in that case.

the problem with this ofc is that the market would get flooded with the resulting crafted items, then the price collapses etc etc.

Vagrant.7206:

Fay.2357:

Sooloo.1364:

I have to wonder what you guys that haven’t experienced this get out of constantly trying to explain to everyone how bad these players are. Do you feel compelled to justify your own win streaks.

Just to be clear, are you making the argument that you have a 20% winrate and it’s not your fault? I just want to make sure I know what you’re trying to say.

You’re also making a huge assumption with your math that people with poor winrates can play 100’s of games. I’ve maybe played 130 this season and I’m in legendary right now. And now I’m stuck because the progression gives me 3 wins… then 4 losses, rinse and repeat.

the ‘progress fairy’ doesn’t ‘give’ you 3 wins and 4 loses, you have simply progressed to the point where you are slightly below average. How else could it be, at some point this happens to all apart from the most skilled teams in legendary.

reikken.4961:

Ele used to be more difficult to play before HoT, but tempest makes it pretty easy.

In any case, pve staff dps ele is very simple. You only need to press 3 buttons. Lava font-> meteor shower. wait 4 seconds. lava font->overload. wait 4 seconds. lava font on cooldown until meteor shower is off cooldown. repeat. Congratulations, you have the game’s top dps.

If you want to get extra fancy, add ice bow, and for the lava fonts with no channel in between, press autoattack to cancel the lava font’s aftercast delay.

Now, support ele isn’t nearly as simple. Ele in any vs player context is not simple at all.

staff is not so simple if you are considering more factors beyond dpsing your face off. I would say Ele offers a rang of play from simple spam rotation to complex reactive behaviour and build adjustments.

LughLongArm.5460:

PLZ Consider making Hall of Monuments assets available by other means

Hall of Monuments in GW2 is inaccessible for most current GW2 community and it’s a shame as lots of GW2 assets are locked behind a wall which is no longer relevant.

Giving veterans GW1 players an extra bonus and motivation was a great idea 4 years ago but now it feels an obsolete system, the chance that non GW1 players will pick up the game and invest tons of hours for the skins is very low, probably close to 0. I think that giving the veterans GW1 players free and 4 years early access on the skins is enough of a bonus.

Plz consider giving access to Hall of Monuments in GW2 by other means that doesn’t include GW1, it can be the gem store, game content, a collection achievement, all options are fine.

What do you think?

HOM awards are for GW1 players. The opposite is to abstract this to a rule saying everyone can get anything any way they want. However, its just skins, if you can get a skin any way you want then whats the point of the skin, it represents nothing beyond being a bunch of pixels.

Option 1, you feel like you must farm something over and over all or fall behind the power curve/ be disadvantaged , e.g wow etc. If you feel like you MUST do a thing and you dont enjoy it then thats a grind.

Option 2, you do not fall behind any form of curve if you dont farm a thing, incentive is therefore personal desire. You therefore choose to farm for things that you like, this is not a grind, its a long term goal. I.e GW2 skins.

you dont need it for wvw or pve in GW2, but pvp it gives more options. As with any game, generally speaking the player with access to most content has must choice.

Do you need to post on a forum to say you dont fancy a film, but you will buy it on pay for view when it comes out, or do you need to post on a forum because you dont see a particular music album as value for money, but would be tempted if it was part of a double album offer in the future.

You see Anet are offering exactly what you are looking, a future budget version for those that don’t think full price offers enough value. However some people do not have the wit to see this, all they see is corporations & conspiracy – too much tv over the years dulls the brain. $10-15 sub a month + expansion cost is ofc better value?

JediSange.1645:

Backround: I’m a developer and understand the answer to this might be technical in nature. I’m assuming the sheer amount of hit detection becomes too great for the servers to handle. ArenaNet has a world-class technical background and I’d love to hear insight on this topic. But for the sake of discussion, let’s assume that is not the reason.

Consistently I see people complaining about two things:

- Inability to defend keeps vs a zerg
- Zergs dominating the WvW scene and generally being unfun

I play on Yak’s Bend and consistently get into small “Havok Groups” only to run into a zerg and die. To me, both of these issues would be solved if targets no longer had a max target limit. If 100 people tried to go through a choke point and we had 3 Elementalists bombing it, and wells ticking… well, suddenly that’s not viable. Suddenly you have to find other ways to win.

The idea here is that if every server has 100 (arbitrary number, I think it’s 300?) people, the goal shouldn’t be to get 100 v 100 fights. The goal should be to split those people up in efficient ways to win on multiple fronts. I think the “ideal” WvW state is to have havok groups a plenty with 5v5 or 10v10 skirmishes happening all over the map in organic ways. Guardian walls help prevent arrow carts, heavy AOE from Ele/Necro help defend chokes, etc etc. To me, we should be designing systems that punish zerging, not reward it. The less empowered small groups feel in their contribution, the more people will get driven away from WvW. Then you have a mega-power like BG emerge. Just a mass of people consistently zerging. And go figure — now a lot of them are quitting because “wvw is dead”, etc. As for AOE, imagine you have a group of 50 people all hitting 50 people..Hence siege, immovable by a zerg/blob.

I personally really enjoy WvW and would really like to have a meaningful way to do small-scale skirmishes that are organic (e.g. Not some 10v10 arena). I wouldn’t mind GvG making a comeback from GW1, of course, but I would really like to make the best of this system.

TL;DR Remove target limit on skills to punish zerging instead of rewarding it.

ANYWAYS. Thoughts/discussion?

the problem is that people naturally gravitate to bigger groups, big fights look fun and can be exciting when it devolves into large skirmishes that ebb and flow. This is the promise that WVW offes over battlegrounds and arenas. If humans are attracted to this gameplay the last thing as a game designer would want to do is to try and block this, instead they need to guide and compliment his behavior. The only problem with large scale fights is zerg balling, and that’s where strong siege weapons can come in – make siege weapons absolutely deadly to big groups, only hit players, are powerful, cheap to build, but very fragile.

ESO is another wvw game that has problems with xerg-balling, compounded with a poorer game engine, exact same issues.

Khales.3198:

StickerHappy.8052:

Why not just quit and stop posting here? If you really hate pvp just quit man, stop making salty posts, you sound like a distressed teenager.

sure they restarted because i am salty.

and since it wasnt clear enough for you genius, of course i quit.

man you have been complaining for a loooong time, time to chill out and remember its a game and move on, life is too short.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I think the OP has got things turned around. This game’s roles aren’t supposed to be carefully defined — that is mostly up to us. I don’t play the role my team deserves — I play the role my team needs. I play druid when the team has trouble surviving; I don’t otherwise. I dust off the mesmer when the issue is utility or reflects. The ele can swap around between roles without too much effort.

I like that GW2 (mostly) provides us a variety of tools and gives us the freedom to figure out which role to play.

thats incorrect, in pvp for ele you can go support but anything else is not viable against a team with comparable skill, e.g go dps and you have no defense and melt like butter when focused down.

in software development, you would split that nail up into 3 nail so 3 people can hammer it. The real problem is finding developers that can hammer straight without constant guidance.

you inferred that your drop in rating was to do with MMR, this is in a PVP thread not a guild advertisement thread. To be clear im saying MMR is neither quantified or likely to be the cause for most issues.

So its not MMR when you went up to T7 3 pips, but was MMR when you went down? In reality the higher you go the more difficult it gets, especially as the differential between a communicating organised group and a random pug grows and the pool of players reduces.

OP, im going after the legendary, and im doing it by gathering etc. Its going to take a long time and cost a fortune, but what il get out of that is an item that takes work – win for me, thats what im after in a RPG, long term goals and rewards. I could equally go ahead and buy a legendary for far less gold from the auction house – but what is the point of that!

Its odd isn’kitten in most genre when people stop liking a game they just leave and play something else and return if they like what they see. Bizarrely in the mmorpg genre you get people declaring they are leaving half a year ago etc but they cant seem to let go (or maybe its letting go of their rpg char thats the issue), and worse seem to think the community at large needs to know this.

stale.9785:

Just logging in to point out that any time information necessary to complete a mission, story or achievement isn’t available in game, but requires you to use an outside resource, then Anet has failed.

That simple, nothing else to add. There are a number of instances wherein this holds true, and each time it comes up, it’s a complete failure on the developers’ behalf.

this is a mmorpg not a single player game – ask people or research, its not hard, and a lot more satisfying.

who said this : “I’m hurting myself laughing here, at the people who are saying that it’s hard to find non-revealing armours. Literally, using the argosoft gallery,…”

its a game, people play it, people have fun. Whats really really unhealthy is people buying a game and spending months complaining about it in a forum instead of accepting that they have bought something that doesn’t suit their tastes and moving on..

raid story mode is a good idea imo. For me 10 man instances at hard fractal level would be nice. Hard enough that it requires skill and experience, easy enough that people dont get anal about builds.

Solus.3571:

vesica tempestas.1563:

i can help :

Average AAA MMO, $100-180 a year on average including 1 expansion every 2 years. Normal model is that when an AAA mmo releases an expansion, the older content goes free or budget – for obvious reasons.

GW2, $25-30 every year including 1 expansion every 2 years, you decide on what you want to pay above this, you can leave and join at any time with no power curve loss. Normal model is that when an AAA mmo releases an expansion, the older content goes free or budget – for obvious reasons.

its not rocket science.

My issue isn’t with the pricing, my issue is with the model.

For example, if I sell a product for years and then later start giving that product out for free, people that bought it within the last few months before it became free will be upset because in a very short amount of time, they could have gotten it for free.

Now I’m selling a different product that makes the old one better, but it also comes with the old product. So anyone who DID wait the few months suddenly gets a significantly better deal, and people who didn’t wait have to pay the same price for less because they already have the original product.

It’s not as much a monetary issue as it is the principle of the thing. If they simply offered the expansion by itself for previous owners of the game, or offered a free character slot or two seeing as there’s a new class, that would at least be SOMETHING, but instead, it’s simply older players getting the raw end of the deal. It’s not like I got years of fun out of this game, I didn’t. I got maybe a few months in, and then this happened.

You can’t just compare this to other games, single player or otherwise, and say “well other models are worse, so that makes this one good.” In fact, older expansions in Guild Wars 1 DID come with a free character slot when it released a new class, so it’s not even like they haven’t done exactly the kind of thing I’m suggesting in the past. They just decided not to this time, and because other MMO’s have even worse deals, people like you are perfectly okay with it, because hey, it could be worse.

If the best sex in the world gives me an STD I’m not going to suddenly enjoy it because it wasn’t AIDS. I’m still gonna be upset that I got one at all.

All I’m looking for here is either the expansion sold separately, or some other incentives for previous owners to make that extra $20ish dollars worth it.

If you spend your life worrying that other people get better deals than you do then life is going to be annoying. In reality the ‘model’ is you pay or you don’t based on what value you think a product will give you. GW2 at $25-30 a year and a bonus to new players is a steal. Be happy for other people who are getting to join and enrich the GW2 community with a bargain.

Example : I bought a music album 5 years ago, this year i buy the bands new album that has their old tracks free as a bonus.

Example : where the first book in a trilogy cost £10 5 years ago, now i can get that book along with the next 2 books in a special deal with the final part of the trilogy.

Example : DVD’s as above.

Example : every other AAA MMOROG as above.

Example : Most good Single player games with expansions (steam anyone)

Example – pretty much every entertainment model.

Solus.3571:

I don’t know, overall this seems kind of like a scumbaggy business model. I don’t mind when games go F2P, I understand that happens, but when their solution for supporting previous owners is to lock new F2P players out of content and tell me I’m getting the good end of the stick when that same new player can get everything I have and more for less than the original price I paid for the game, I’m a little offended.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I work for a living and whenever I buy a game I have to carefully consider if it’s worth the money because I can’t afford everything I want to play. Purchasing this game meant I didn’t get to purchase another one for months.

So when the final product is costing me upwards of $100-110 and had I gotten the game today instead it would be merely $50, I feel kind of slapped in the face. Like the company is saying “HA, should have waited just a bit longer, sucks to be you!”

Honestly, a $30 price tag for previous owners would sell me on this. I wouldn’t like it, but at that point I’m being picky, at least at $30 I can see both sides of the argument and not walk away feeling slapped.

Is it manual work you do perchance? you must feel slapped in the face with every single AAA mmo release, and then there’s all AAA single player games – maybe GW2 should be a sub model instead so you can pay an extra $100 a year..with the same price for an expansion?

i can help :

Average AAA MMO, $100-180 a year on average including 1 expansion every 2 years. Normal model is that when an AAA mmo releases an expansion, the older content goes free or budget – for obvious reasons.

GW2, $25-30 every year including 1 expansion every 2 years, you decide on what you want to pay above this, you can leave and join at any time with no power curve loss. Normal model is that when an AAA mmo releases an expansion, the older content goes free or budget – for obvious reasons.

its not rocket science.

TheShniper.1852:

Oh but ele can have upwards of 40k dps in a good situation. High risk high reward. Git gud as the cool kids say lol

with aoe..in pve yes.