Was fiddling about with builds in WVW, and I started thinking about this elite – what if it had a 1 minute cool down (and reduce number of targets to perhaps 1-3) – becomes and effective condy cover for condy based build? Any thoughts?
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
your replying to a post from 25 days ago that’s talking about all the changes to report you uninstalled from your hard drive a year ago? check out the patches thread there have been thousands of changes and fixes.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
We’ll be making a game update on Wednesday, February 22 that will include skill balancing. Members of our skills and balance team will be on the official forums for a while after the build goes live to discuss those changes with you.
To take part, please join the new thread we’ll post after the build goes live. For our players who participate on the French, German, or Spanish forums, we will provide a list of highlights from the conversation by the end of the week.
nice 1, great comms recently!
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
…
2- all zones are highly difficult
3- a small proportion of all the zones in the game world are more challenging to some.
3 is HOT and is clearly the fairest option..
No, HoT is clearly number 2, or this whole discussion would be moot.
ye exactly, so option 3 as HOT was not a standalone game it was an expansion to a mmorpg, this meant:
- Mastery system that made all 32 zones and dungeons and fractals significantly easier
- New Specializations that made all 32 zones significantly easier
- Gliding that made travel in all 32 zones significantly easier with the ability to glide across swathes of mobs you previously had to plow through (consider orr for a start)
- More ascended gear and easier to access that made 32 zones easier.
- A new Profession that could be played through all 32 zones.
- 4 new zones added to the existing 28 zones, 3 of which which was aimed at a higher level of difficulty, e.g the new orr or maguuma that had been downgraded by the above.
28 zones for easy going gameplay 3 zones for harder gameplay and 1 that requires organisation in LFG..
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Why doesnt guild wars have an option to vote to forfeit a pvp match if youre allready loosing?? so many games goes 500-50 or something like that, would it not be good if u have a guy going afk to have a chance to forfeit the game and get on with another game instead? i would like to have such option wich also then needs to have a minimum of 3 votes to actually forfeit since its 5v5 game or that all 5 need to vote but atleast have the option for this would be really nice!
because PVP isnt just about winning, its about good content, even 4v5 down you can get great fights. Allowing a quit culture to emerge would destroy that perspective for all.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
would you consider expanding top stats and stats in general?, it can be quite rewarding and make even a bad loss less painful and enjoyable (monitor your own performance against your other fights, experiment with builds etc)
- Least deaths
- Top boons applied
- Top Boons removed
- Break down of condy dmg and direct dmg totals
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Being loyal and recognizing other player names over time are things that makes pvp more interesting and engaging, and rewarding commitment even when it gets rough for a server is a great idea.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
most definitely a good idea, if anything it should help make the grouping more accurate over time. It is also less frustrating for those players who play only 1 profession and get aggro because they cannot change.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Yes i did not literally mean ‘bunny rabbit’ – go for inconsequential mob with no challenge if it must be precise.
There is theory to consider:
‘In designing a popular game, it would be beneficial to have a model of the ideal player. The designer could use this player profile to design just the right amount of difficulty and emotional impact into their game. No player would become bored with easy challenges or overburdened by difficult ones. All players could be fairly compensated for taking risks by a well-calculated reward structure. Everyone who played the game would receive the same optimal experience and level of entertainment. Unfortunately for the designer, it is unlikely that such an ideal player model exists.’
the question i would ask is : how do you balance across the a player base of wide skills and experience?
1 – All zones have minimal challenge
2- all zones are highly difficult
3- a small proportion of all the zones in the game world are more challenging to some.
3 is HOT and is clearly the fairest option..
Imagine HOT players complained that all zones should be the same difficulty as HOT, exact same unrealistic demand, other end of the spectrum.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
example, just been wandering in tangled depth and met that group of mobs at the entrance at the bottom of the great tree that used to destroy and annoy me. Now i use health steal food, use a condy build with heavy defense in stone and simply circle and pick them off one by one and aoe the little guys. circling, hitting mobs with any dmg spell on cooldown and using my defensive skills when they are up – that’s it not a difficult or highly skilled gameplay and they die fast and easily. just a couple learns from previous encounters and a willingness to learn (16k hp ele, practically no toughness)
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
i didnt say the same level, and it could take 5 minutes to learn an attack pattern to kill the frog, it could take an hour, it doesn’t really matter, my point was that it will be more rewarding than killing a bunny rabbit.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
You’re assuming people see your question, which is a terrible assumption. I’m not always reading mapchat if I’m in voice with my guild for example. Or people are helping other people, or fighting and don’t have the time to answer that question. Doesn’t make them unhelpful.
At any rate, I see plenty of questions in map chat replied to. If someone else replies than I don’t have to, but I would if no one else replied.
I compared it to the same scenario in core Tyria.
I chat more in core Tyria than I do in HoT because I can hit 1 in core Tyria, and autoattack everything to death, without worrying about having to move.
I sure wouldn’t try that in most places in HoT. Yes, HOT makes you pay more attention to the game.
Core Tyria, you can type, do your taxes and eat lunch while playing. That’s definitely more engaging content.
that’s very interesting , you say one thing, but actually the meaning is quite the opposite, i.e your problem is that Tyria is easy enough that you have low engagement such that you can also do your tax, have lunch etc etc and you want the whole game to be like this. In other words you want the whole game to have a low engagement level, interesting requirement for a game is it not.
verb (used with object), engaged, engaging.
1.
to occupy the attention or efforts of (a person or persons):
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
^^ your missing the point, with a little play adaption you can mow down those frogs – and mowing down something you previously struggled with is infinitely more satisfying than mowing down a bunny rabbit for the millionth time.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
i think the average age of a mmo player is mid 20’s (27 for GW2 i think), and i would expect most older players play casually due to commitments. Older players are typically experienced game players. In other words level of ‘casualness’ has no bearing on skill or perception. I play casually, i’m of average skill, I solo all of HOT easily in a squishy ele. The fact is the majority of players in GW2 are casual, and the majority of players have completed HOT.
lets put it this way, lets say there are 100 player are in a HOT map, 10 are highly skilled, 90 are average and 10 have difficulties both solo and forming groups. 90% have completed HOT, 100% have leveled through all vanilla – At what level should HOT be pitched at exactly ? (and lets consider there are already 30 maps that are trivial)
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
First, people are busier. They can’t answer a question without jeopardizing their own situation. I suspect this is the lion’s share of the reason.
Second, there’s an attitude among HoT players that those who don’t know things (unique to HoT) simply need to learn how to play better. You can see this attitude plainly on these forums.
there’s is no such thing as a ‘hot’ player, there are only players. The facts speak for themselves, if you are unwilling to learn and adapt then you will not in fact not learn and adapt
Consider that It’s not actually other peoples attitude that is at fault here, they are over there happily grouping up with others or doing whatever they enjoy doing.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
ANet really screwed this one up. We have spent hours trying to get past this. I read through the forums and it seems we all have the same problems. The FREAKING GLIDERS DONT WORK!!! Time and time again we lose it to the fact that we die because of this one event. Then, when we finally did get one person to live until the very last part, she got Morty down to the point where he was stunned with about 5% health and could do no further damage. This went on for over an hour. ANet can kiss my butt on this one. In a game that has otherwise been so well designed they screwed this one up in the worst way. It would be my advice to either skip the heart of thorns story lines entirely or just bow out of this last chapter. It is not worth the frustration and based upon how long these complaints have been in the posts it doesn’t look like it is ever going to be fixed.
So take charge of your own gameplay, analyse why the vast majority of people do not have these problems when you do and adapt. Its the only answer really, you are the only one that knows what you do. My advice for what its worth is add more defense into your build so you can tolerate a few mistakes and get more learning time.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Jumping into this multiloot several times and seeing how it progressed, I was impressed by the players ability to shape and reshape it to better fit their goals. This is the only place where I have seen this happen anywhere in the game. Sure, guilds and parties can work well together to accomplish great tasks but this was players exploiting the game in numerous and ingenious ways. Anet didn’t call it an exploit, they called it exploity, meaning there were likely even more ways players had not yet come across.
Sure there should not have been the ability to begin with, but many games have the sense to create open area’s where the players can create some of the game themselves and then the game takes full advantage of the players creation when it proves enjoyable content.
I see these as not a lot different. No economy crashed. Everyone was able to make their own choice to take part or not. So, I too to bid a fond farewell to the creativity that was the AB Multiloot.
actually parts of the market were affected, for example the market supply for ecto prior to HOT was 60k, mid last month it was 850k. Which meant for people who did not want to exploit their ecto income dropped by 20%, so yes it did affect other people.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Since ‘learn to play’ is used by some people use as an insult, I would rather say that that the story mode offers a different challenge that requires you to do more than spam, you need to think a bit about your skills and how you play and adapt to the encounter – as everyone who has completed it has had to do.
The alternative is that every fight is easy enough that even new players can complete with no such effort, even with end of expansion bosses – and what a dull dull unsatisfying game that would be.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
what makes you think casual players arent highly skilled? you need to remember yesterdays pro player may well be today’s casual player. That aside however players trying to force builds on other people for the sake of scraping off a few minutes of a run is missing the point of gaming, same kind of mentality as the stacking at every nook and cranny approach – most of the time it is just not required and a hell of a lot less fun. in dungeons and fractals players should be free to play with builds, as you say forcing someone to zerk is pointless if thats not what they like to play.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
The only place where specific builds matters is raiding and spvp, every where else any build works as long as you adapt to the encounter. I find Sceptre/Dagger offhand counter productive as your weapons have different ranges.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
the issue is the minimap system then for those that dont want to learn routes ^^ I love the layered style of map, especially considering there’s another 30 plus maps that don’t have layering like that – choice is good yes?
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Its ironic, people argue is it worth it and then get annoyed at seeing things they don’t have (but evidently want) The right perspective is perhaps: I have a less choice not having HOT and I see things i want/need – and then work out if you want to buy it.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
GW has never used vertical progression, instead it gives you a large set of [horizontal] tools and rightly assumes over time people will learn ways of beating any content using those tools – which we have seen with all GW content to date (excluding Raids ofc – different design goal) agree with sub 80 zones, its the trivial content part of the map, Hot and others scale from there.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Personally i only play S/F now with my own hybrid condy/toughness/heal build – I don’t really worry about meta, I do what works for me, a lot more fun – especially with a 20k condy burst to play with in wvw
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
^^ they confuse ‘L2P’ forum style insulting with the real valid point that you do in fact need to learn to improve (indeed this is one of the things that makes games fun). Worse, some people do not want to learn, and would prefer to demand that instead of learning something, the world should change to match their personal view of the world exactly – and at any given time.
These people cannot comprehend that a monster (for e.g) in a mmorpg fighting 2 real people at the same time cannot match both players skill level – this is single player thinking, it is impossible in a mmorpg.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Here is something to consider for those that think that HOT zones are too difficult:
1. A mmorpg cannot balance a zone to be the perfect skill level to all people at the same time, that is impossible. If 2 people are fighting a monster the monster cannot have 2 skills and sets of stats at the same time. You cannot preemptively evaluate a players skill level prior to combat, and even if you could the first point still applies.
2. The most effective approach is to balance to match the average skill level.
3. The evidence to prove point 2 is that the majority of the player base should be able to complete the given content and skill level eventually.
it is absolutely clear that HOT is not ‘too difficult’
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
I will say this as a general statement and exit. I have anxiety panic disorder so not having friends or family in real life to turn too is Fact, and not having friends or a guild to turn too in game, or the ability to just join a random group was avoidable. By not keeping the world content difficulty level the same for people who mentally cannot be in groups, was a pretty big slap in the face. The difficulty level being raised in the Fracts, raids and dungeons would have been/should have been enough for the elites who needed the bar raised.
You’re right. The general world content in HoT should have been the same as it always was for GW2. The maps we have in HoT now should have been optional raid content – they’re great for that, but they’re terrible “expansion” content for original GW2, as they are nothing like original GW2.
Sadly, the niche of folks who like WoW raid level content are also the same kind of people who enjoy being “Forum Warriors” (people who delight in telling everyone who doesn’t feel the same as they do how wrong they are). Normal players don’t often come to forums at all, so forums disproportionately represent niche players and when game companies don’t comprehend this, expansions like HoT are made.
For the record, I bought HoT for everything other than the new maps, because the new maps aren’t the type of content I play this game for. And, I only bought it when it went on sale, because the price was far too high for the content that was delivered.
This borders on hyperbole. I don’t like raids. I haven’t beaten a raid. I don’t enjoy raids, but I love the HoT maps.
Comparing HoT maps to raid difficulty is just way off base in my opinion.
It’s like saying this is too hard for me and raids are too hard for me therefore they’re l;ike raids.
Which is like saying My dad is taller than me, and my house is taller than me, so my dad is as tall as a house.
Raids require coordination and practice on a level far beyond HoT. HoT is not as hard as some people are making it out to be.
yup 100% agree here too. Historically i have enjoyed very hard demanding raids that require weeks if not months of 60 + attempts per week on a single boss, now I cannot be bothered with that gamestyle. I have dabbled with raids in HOT and they are similar to any other mmo’s typical difficult raids, and far far more difficult that HOT zone content. I also get that players still enjoy this style of raiding, and they should get content too as long as its not to expensive to make.
HOT zones however I do enjoy BECAUSE it is more difficult to solo, I still farm the place and can destroy everything i come across easily, but at the same time i will die if i make mistakes, whereas in a low level zone there’s just no risk at all, you can face roll naked if you want to. Sometimes I want the latter, sometimes i want HOT – choice is good.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
^ couple options if you like GW2 but don’t like HOT maps:
1. Dont play HOT maps, theres 30 odd other maps and a metric ton of new content you can play.
2. Learn what other players do that allows them to steamroll content in HOT.
Usually though, when people say they are quiting because of [blame thing here] its just that they are bored of the game type and nothing will change that.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
Oh man I remember that final fight. I think at this point totally broken finales are ANet’s thing. I homestly would not be too heart broken if the grand ending of the next expac accidentally my whole PC.
’To me HoT represents a paradigm shift in difficulty and dynamic event structure. You can’t just waltz through the zones and be guaranteed success, you need to pay attention or you go splat. That to me, is cracking good fun!
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
what on earth are you talking about, GW1 is of a magnitude harder than GW2. I’m guessing you didn’t play the hard mode maps in GW1. In fact GW1 maps were harder than any other maps in a mmorpg/coorpg. The real issue was that Anet wanted to broaden the appeal to players from other games – they reduced difficulty by a huge amount.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
we have fire for pure offense, air for pure offense, earth for defensive offense, and water for cc/healing. What we don’t need is water to be offensive, we have that, we want is water to be stronger cc/heal.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
i’m ok with nerfing multiloot, it’s not ok to loot many instances. but now player can loot ONE grand chest or large chest PER DAY, not per event. i think, it’s totally not cool. i love Tarir, i need aurilium, but now i am forced to do meta just once per day. that’s frustrating.
try eating 10 cakes every hour, is that fun?
now have 1 cake a day, suddenly cakes are tasty right.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
that’s about 30 hours lapsed doing what you normally do but ye lots of ways to make great gold that doenst involve grinding the same exploit over and over and over again.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
ah ok if you want gold, dip into spvp, then wvw in 5 minutes you will have 3-5 gold profit per day with with little effort win or lose and some fun. same goes for fractals and dungeons, 5-10 gold for 15 mins play.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
the solution to your quandary Op is to have the end game quest line solo-able with no effort for players who have been playing a couple of weeks? that’s not going to be fun for very long is it, in fact it sounds like a game for a young child. the final quest line is easily solo able, and once you get a grip of your skills you can annihilate huge swathes of enemies in HOT and solo champs (and its satisfying because you used your skill and knowledge to beat the odds)
May be worth looking at WOW, the model there is setup so the content makes sure it balances itself to be easy with guaranteed daily progress regardless of skill – worth a shout.
The vast majority of players cannot solo champions in HoT. I don’t know why you would say that.
you don’t need to, its a mmorpg and champs are for groups, but its clearly doable since lots of people do it. The reason i said it is that i’m a casual player playing a squishy ele, probably average skill and i can do it, ergo other people can. Re the final story chain the vast majority have completed it, so you either design for the vast majority or you design for the minority (who will eventually skill up anyway over time).
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
you don’t understand the problem for the economy and game-play in general when players are exploiting a design flaw to loot the same loot over and over across multiple instances? Take GW2 out of the equation, imagine a raiding game like WOW where you beat the boss then simply swap between the instances and loot the same boss 10 times – sounds like cheating doesn’t it when you put it like that.
re the poor hard done by argument – you can get well over a thousand gold a year by simply playing for minutes per day.
“Trying to please everyone would not only be challenging
but would also result in a product that might not satisfy anyone”- Roman Pichler, Strategize
