Guild Wars 2

Apparently my above post is to long, so Im moving this down.

Incurafy.6329:

Wish, dude, I appreciate you publishing your theorycrafting and math as much as the next guy, but you don’t have to be such a tool to people offering an alternative and wanting to join the discussion. So he didn’t read the entire thread, big deal, you could have just pointed him to the post before proceeding to give him the thorough details.

Incurafy, dude, you need to stop taking things as insults that are not. If I was insulting HappyHour.6241 I would of called him names and said he was dumb. If someone says X is better than Y when it is not, Im simply going to correct them, and explain why. Treating them like theyre 5 and Im their parent and trying to use nice words to tell them theyre wrong isnt required and its insulting to their intelligence, which they proved they have by looking for solutions (not using divinity runes and wanting better results) and doing well by actually coming up with something. If he continued to proclaim the awesomeness of ruby orbs I would begin to berate him (like someone else I got tired of talking to) and then youd have something to condemn me for, but they deserve to have it explained why theyre wrong without acting like theyre a stupid child who cant take being told theyre wrong. If you cant take simple statements of fact, please stop reading anything I type, because Im never going to sugar coat it to appease people who are overly PC.

Anyway, I was totally productive enough for today for GW2, back to Pokemon White 2 and making my shiny Umbreon super awesome! …when it eventually evolves, lol.

Gonna post this in this thread:

wish.1027:

Power increase:
(oldpower + addedpower) / (oldpower) =1.XXYYYY
XX.YYY%= %damage increase

Crit damage increase:
(1.5 + oldcritdamage + addedcritdamage) / (1.5 + oldcritdamage) =1.XXYYY
XX.YYY * .critrate = %damage increase

Precision increase:
21 precision = +1% Crit chance at level 80.
Added Precision / 21 = X.YYY
X = addedcritchance
(1 + ((.5 + critdamage) * (oldcritchance + addedcritchance))) / (1 + (.5 + critdamage) * oldcritchance) =1.XXYYY
XX.YYY= %damage increase

These are the formulas for determining damage increases gained from adding power or precision or crit damage to your build.

Example:
Comparing damage gains on two pieces of gear, like for instance a Knights body vs a Valkyrie body. What you do is remove your body, and use all your regular food buffs. Then write down your power, precision and crit chance. Then use the following formulas to determine the increases each one would offer. (Im using Knights vs Valk because it makes me use all 3 formulas)
Knights Body: 101 Toughness, 72 Power, 72 Precision
Valkyrie Body: 101 Power, 72 Vitality, 5% Crit damage

For knights we will have to check the Power and Precision increases, and for Valk we have to check Power and Crit damage. Im going to just use my thieves current stats, which are 1910 Power, 50% crit chance and 74% crit damage without a body armor on.

Knights Power Increase:
We’ll simply copy the formula, insert our stats, and then google it and google calculator will give us the answer.
(oldpower+ addedpower)/ (oldpower)=1.XXYYYY
XX.YYY%= damage increase
(1910+ 72)/ (1910)=1.03769633508
So a Knights Bodys 72 power is worth 3.7696 damage to us.

Knights Precision Increase:
21 precision = 1% Crit chance at level 80.
(1 ((.5+ critdamage)* (oldcritchance+ addedcritchance)))/ (1+ (.5+ critdamage)* oldcritchance)=1.XXYYY
XX.YYY= damage increase
72/21=3.42857142857 72 precision is worth 3 crit chance.
Of course if you actually do this, youll want to min/max your precision using infusions/other gear to hit an exact value so you dont lose 10 stats (the .42857~) like we’re doing in this example.
(1+ ((.5+ .74)* (.5+ .03)))/ (1+ (.5+ .74)*.5)=1.02296296296
So a Knights Bodys 72 Precision is worth 2.2962% damage to us.

Or, lets say we’re 2 precision over exactly 50%, and we have 6 power infusions. What we can do is swap 2 of those power infusions to precisions giving us + 10 precision, plus our 2 extra we have currently, giving us 10 + 2+ 72=84
84/21=4
(1+ ((.5+ .74)* (.5+ .04)))/ (1+ (.5+ .74)* .5)=1.03061728395
If we do this, our gained precision is worth 3.061% damage, almost 1% more. But we did lose 10 power, so we have to re-solve for that by simply subtracting 10 in the first half of the problem:
(1910+ 72- 10)/ (1910)=1.03246073298
So now our power increase is worth 3.246% damage instead of 3.769%

Knights without exact Precision:
3.76+ 2.29=6.05
Knights body gives us a 6.05% damage increase total.

Knights with Exact Precision:
3.24+ 3.06=6.3
In this Knights set we get a 6.3% damage increase total.
Fixing our Precision value to hit an exact number gave us a larger damage increase than not doing it, even though we sacrificed 10 power, which just goes to show you how important doing this is, theres no half % crit chance values in this game. It’s +1% or its +0%.

Valkyrie Power Increase:
(oldpower+ addedpower)/ (oldpower)=1.XXYYYY
XX.YYY%= damage increase
(1910+ 101)/ (1910)=1.05287958115
So a Valkyrie Bodys Power is worth 5.287 damage to us.

Valkyrie Crit Damage Increase:
(1.5+ oldcritdamage+ addedcritdamage)/ (1.5+ oldcritdamage)=1.XXYYY
XX.YYY*critrate= damage increase
(1.5+ .74+ .05)/ (1.5+ .74)=1.02232142857
2.232142857*.5=1.1160714285
So a Valkyrie Bodys +5 Crit Damage is worth 1.116% damage to us.

5.28+ 1.11=6.39
Valkyrie Body gives us a 6.39% damage increase total.

Hey, someone posted in my thread, and didnt read everything.

You cant use the EP on the site to determine which set is better because the number it spits out is wrong for my set. It cant account for omnomberry pies damage from life steal or from the fire sigil you removed. But seriously, if you copy the use of a ruby orb and the curry from your build
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1p.h2.8.1p.a7|c.1p.h2.8.1p.h17|1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j.1c.71j.1g.71j|2s.d13.2s.d13.3s.d17.3s.d17.2s.d13.2s.d13|0.u36c.u56b.a1.0|39.1|57.5c.5b.5h.0|e
The EP of the Fall set goes above yours while also maintaining 1k more EHP.

A.2.64/2.62=1.00763358779
B.0.76*.75=0.57
C.(2221+250+(6*35))/(2201+250+(6*35))=1.00751597144
D.0.75+0.57=1.32

EDIT:
Thought I should maybe explain the above numbers.
A.newcritdamage/oldcritdamage=1.XXYYY
new crit damage=base crit damage+added crit damage from gear+additional crit damage from ruby orb
old crit damage=base crit damage + added crit damage from gear
XX.YYY= % damage increase with 100% crit chance
B.X.YYY* critchance= % damage increase.
With 50% crit chance out of stealth, 100% in stealth, and backstab doing 50% of our total damage, that means we can add .5 and 1.0 and divide by 2 to reach .75 as our average crit chance.
C.(new power+ bloodlust stacks+ (35*average might stacks))/(old power+ bloodlust stacks+ (35* average might stacks)=1.XXYYY
new power = base power+20 additional from ruby orb
old power = base power
XX.YYY= % damage increase from the power given by ruby orb
D. Add the two % damage modifiers together to find the total damage increase

Also, the Ruby Orb instead of fire sigil is a damage increase of 1.32% on every hit. If fire sigil procs once every 5-6 seconds for 1k~ damage, that means you need to be doing something ridiculous like 75,000 damage every 5-6 seconds for ruby orb to keep up with the DPS provided by fire sigil. Thats also if the fire sigil only hits one target… you can double the 75k for every additional target.

Im not entirely sure how you use 1.32% and 1000 to find the number 75,000~, I can just look at 1k and 1.32% and know its 75k~ and reverse check it to see that 75,000*0.0132=990 so I know Im right.

If youre not going to use sigil of fire or air in your offhand you should be using force and accuracy, because you cant use 2x sigil of force, or stack air and fire, and force does more damage than accuracy.

But ya, this is a brief demonstration of why we’re not using the EP on that site to determine what does the most damage anymore, because you cant once you start talking about adding in things it can no longer handle, like omnomberry pies.

pantsforbirds.9032:

I think my biggest problem with your post is how situational your math is.

You just dont understand what I am saying and proving. Blow for blow, soldiers+berserker will always hit harder while maintaining the same EHP as a set using valkyrie+berserkers armor. It doesnt matter if you stand still or not. Every time you connect with an attack the soldiers set does more damage. I could care less if you dodge 15 times in a row between attacks, those single attacks will hit for more damage using soldiers. How exactly is that situational?

Also, none of this applies if you want to use all berserker gear, my posts were only about adding defensive stats to your gear, which people suggested doing in the thread, but suggested doing it inefficiently, so I corrected them.

pantsforbirds.9032:

Side Note: the hostility/sarcasm really isn’t needed.

The only hostility here is the hostility you made up in your mind and projected into my posts. Sarcasm is always fun though.

Barfoi.9537:

You also get more damage reduction by avoiding the hits, and thereafter achieve higher damage because you’re not sitting in stealth healing.

lulz, really? I didn’t know that.

Your response doesnt change anything Ive said though… if you add defensive stats to your gear, theres a good way to do it and a bad way to do it. Doing it the good way losses less DPS for defense than doing it the bad way, while maintaining the same EHP in both sets. You can avoid damage by dodging with either set, but soldiers will do more damage when you do connect hits compared to valkyrie.

What you guys seem to not be understanding is that while using soldiers+berserkers your damage is INCREASED compared to the damage output you get from using valkyrie with berserkers, while also INCREASING your EHP. If you didnt get it that time, you never will, so please stop posting.

Barfoi.9537:

Unless it’s for competitive PvP, then one really shouldn’t stress so much about Toughness vs. Vitality. Beyond solo/small-group roaming, these attrition setups (gear, traits) contribute very little to any significant objective. The longer the fight, and the more you stealth, the more time is “wasted”. When points matter, a group won’t want to be in a stale-mate.

Again, you maintain the same EHP in both sets, and the soldiers set has higher damage output while fighting things. Seriously, youre like Kanye West in the fishsticks episode of Southpark, PLEASE JUST GET IT!

Barfoi.9537:

How you’ve fostered such arrogance from this ideal, I’ll never know.

The only arrogance in my posts is the arrogance you projected into them.

One last thing, condition removal is how you deal with conditions, not HP. Thief has tons of condition removal, stop trying to use that as a crux to hold up your weak argument for 7% more HP.

pantsforbirds.9032:

Vitality is a much better defensive tool for thieves than toughness is. And the only reason you can go full valk armor and still have a good offensive build is the trait hidden killer. You arent going to be critting your heartseekers or auto attacks as much, but with the 100% chance to crit backstab you can see very high numbers with a decent health pool.

Silly response, I just proved Valkyrie is inferior. Here’s the turth, using soldiers mixed with Valk, your EHP is higher (you can take more hits before you die) and your regen from shadows embrace is worth more as your HP pool is lower and your toughness increased.

For an extreme example to explain, let me use this example:
Lets say you can have 20k HP and 0% damage reduction (valk) or 10k HP and 50% damage reduction (soldiers). Both of these would give you 20k EHP. Because if something hit you for 10k, it would take 2 hits to KO either setup.

Now, lets say you heal for 5k every 30 seconds, and you take 10k damage every 30 seconds. For the Valk set youd lose 10k, dropping to 10k, then regain 5k putting you at 15k, then lose 10k to 5k, then regain 5k to be back at 10k, then take 10k damage and die.

Looking at the Soldiers set you’d have 50% damage reduction, so those 10k hits would only do half of that, or 5k. So every 30 seconds youd take 5k, dropping you to 5k (10k EHP) then heal 5k (healing 10k EHP) repeatedly forever and not die.

This is an extreme example to explain why toughness is better than vitality, since WvW thieves have so much healing (shadows embrace, 330 HP/second in stealth, and a 8k heal on a 30 second timer in hide in shadows…). What youre really doing by swapping to soldiers is increasing your damage reduction by 10%~ or so, and losing 7%~ of your HP. Your total EHP will remain the same, and your damage output and damage reduction will increase as I already explained in my previous answer with math, while you make vague claims and provide no math, just that you ‘feel’ its better. Well guess what, I ‘feel’ using all level 10 power only gear at 80 increases my damage over lvl 80 berserker stat gear, so I guess that means I must be right! strong gear for everyone! forget the math that says Im wrong! I feel like Im right so I must be right!!!

The truth is that maximizing the effectiveness of your defensive gains by reducing its cost in terms of DPS loss is the best you can do. Which means using soldiers gear in the most costly stat slots for crit damage until your EHP is where you want it to be. Since Crit damage is worth the least in a typical Thief build, and power is worth the most for DPS increases in a typical build. If you dont believe me, feel free to play with the math all you want, thats why I posted it.

Id think about it if it was T4 or lower.

Since I promised I wouldnt edit my earlier post anymore, Im posting to say that post assumes youre using ascended trinkets, which is all you should be building for, because you will eventually have those.

If you will not eventually have ascended gear for whatever reason, exotic rings are something you give up for defensive gear. Which slots you use for soldiers gear is determined by how much each point of crit damage costs in that slot. Exotic rings are 48 stats = 3% crit damage, 48/3=16, so each point of crit damage there costs 16 stats. Which is the same as your hat and pants (32/2=16 48/3=16) Body however costs less than 16, 72/5=14.4, weapons are 64/5=12.8 each. So if using exotics you give up rings before body or weapons, which is not correct when using Ascended gear, because the jewels are combined, and you cannot get soldiers rings with berserkers jewel ascended gear.

wish.1027:

pantsforbirds.9032:

wish.1027:

I dont know a nice way to put this, but UrMom and Namiren… You guys are terrible at building gear sets. Please dont tell people to use those again.

Im starting to feel like I need to make a new math heavy thread about how to properly add defensive stats to your build again. All 3 other people who suggested it in this thread are doing it inefficiently and giving up more damage than they need to.

What is inefficient about my builds..?

You get more damage reduction and EHP from Soldiers compared to Valk, and you can achieve higher EHP and Damage mixing Berserkers and Soldiers than Valk and Berserkers because of the distribution of Crit Damage and Crit Chance you achieve.

Thought I should expand on this a bit.

Power increase:
(oldpower + addedpower) / (oldpower) =1.XXYYYY
XX.YYY%= %damage increase

Crit damage increase:
(1.5 + oldcritdamage + addedcritdamage) / (1.5 + oldcritdamage) =1.XXYYY
XX.YYY * .critrate = %damage increase

Precision increase:
21 precision = +1% Crit chance at level 80.
Added Precision / 21 = X.YYY
X = addedcritchance
(1 + ((.5 + critdamage) * (oldcritchance + addedcritchance))) / (1 + (.5 + critdamage) * oldcritchance) =1.XXYYY
XX.YYY= %damage increase

These are the formulas for determining damage increases gained from adding power or precision or crit damage.

Adding 5% crit damage.
(1.5 + 1 + .05) / (1.5 + 1) =1.02
2*.5=1

Adding 1% crit rate.
(1 + ((.5 + 1) * (.5 + .01))) / (1 + (.5 + 1) * .5) =1.00857142857

Basically when sitting at 50%~ crit chance and 100%~ crit damage, 5% crit damage is 1%~ damage, and 1%~ crit chance is 1%~ damage. And Im advocating giving up some of your vit for toughness and some of your crit damage for crit chance. Basically Im saying to give up 10% crit damage (2% damage) for 3% crit chance (3% damage) by swapping Valk gloves/boots/shoulders to Berserkers and Valk body/hat/legs for Soldiers (which loses you 72 vit and gains 152 toughness, which will keep your ability to stay alive about the same). It’s a little more complicated than this, because you need to account for weapons and food and sigils and runes, but I assure you, my way comes out ahead for damage with slightly more EHP when you build to make the EHP the same for both builds.

Aeneasx.1589:

I would love to see this.

Is that what you wanted to see?

Also, I swear Im done editing this now.

pantsforbirds.9032:

wish.1027:

I dont know a nice way to put this, but UrMom and Namiren… You guys are terrible at building gear sets. Please dont tell people to use those again.

Im starting to feel like I need to make a new math heavy thread about how to properly add defensive stats to your build again. All 3 other people who suggested it in this thread are doing it inefficiently and giving up more damage than they need to.

What is inefficient about my builds..?

You get more damage reduction and EHP from Soldiers compared to Valk, and you can achieve higher EHP and Damage mixing Berserkers and Soldiers than Valk and Berserkers because of the distribution of Crit Damage and Crit Chance you achieve.

UrMom.4205:

quit being dumb and trying to make others read old posts

You’re right, I should just make a new super comprehensive thread about correctly gearing your characters, then point at it whenever I say anything from now on forever. Give me a day or two =3

UrMom.4205:

Sorry we can’t be all l33tskillz like you.

But you can, Ive made tons of posts, just go read through them. Start by clicking the Thief tag in my sig.

You just have to recognize who is really trying to help and who is simply talking about things they have no idea about. General rule of thumb is to ask everyone who says X is better than Y for the math if you think it could be questionable, and ignore them completely when they cant/dont provide it.

I dont know a nice way to put this, but UrMom and Namiren… You guys are terrible at building gear sets. Please dont tell people to use those again.

Im starting to feel like I need to make a new math heavy thread about how to properly add defensive stats to your build again. All 3 other people who suggested it in this thread are doing it inefficiently and giving up more damage than they need to.

Rexatyr.2893:

if you want to deal direct damage as thief, 30 CS is almost mandatory.

FTFY

Soldiers hat body legs, Berserker everything else, then pick weapons based on whether you want more more EHP or not (Soldiers > Valk > Berserkers). This comes out better mathematically than just using a bunch of Valk and Berserkers for EHP and Damage if your Backstabs do not exceed 50%~ of your total damage if using Hidden Killer. Quick rule of thumb: if you do an auto attack round and CnD after every BS, your damage split will be 50/50, do more attacks than that, like a single Heart seeker, or an extra CnD because of bad positioning, and your BS does less than 50% total. With Executioner Soldiers mix always wins.

Direwind.8409:

im so sick of watching rather than getting into the battle, we need a ranged attck of 1200

You just need to break away from your habit of hanging out with zergs and thinking ranged attacks are good IMO.

I HS when people are low or just committed to running from me, out of autoattack range, and I want to kill them. I also find myself using it after I bask venom cnd mug bs people if theyre low, since they cant dodge it and it will do more damage than double strike.

Travlane.5948:

many d/p players go invis 10 secs at a time to heal up..

If you do this, youre exactly the kind of player I am talking about when I say

wish.1027:

pathetic.

Kincaidia.3192:

Heck, I wouldn’t try P/D on that kind of a target. If I had time, I’d get out the SB (D/D backup) and plink him down + #3 to keep him at a distance, wait til he blows his big heal, plink 2-3 times more and the switch to D/D, mug+cd+bs and you should him in “OH CRAP” mode.

A boon guardians base regen and dodge roll heals heal for more than the thief shortbow attacks for.

a t s e.9614:

Its like you can’t be more glassy ….

I figured out why youre having such a hard time playing in WvW.
Thief

Master of Timespace.2548:

yes thief is in the top tied with warriors but usually the thief doesnt reset. hes right there in range and just biding time. just sayin :P

This kind of behavior is exactly what separates someone who just runs away with norn leopard elite and a thief. Thief can just move away enough for the cls to recharge, and then come back, and repeat this till the world ends if necessary.

And the person with snowleopard only runs when he suddenly becomes vastly outnumbered, otherwise he wins. And when he suddenly becomes vastly outnumbered, hes not going to go back into the large group… so 3 minutes is more than fine. Thieves who need to constantly reset fights when not greatly outnumbered are just pathetic.

Nick.6972:

Alright.
So, just got level 80.
Bought 4 Berserker and 2 Knight Armor Pieces. + Have 1 Ascended Berserker Ring.

What Runes should I get? Accessories – 3 Berserker and 1 Valkyrie ?

Knights is bad, use Soldiers+Berserker. If youre interested in why, click that link on the word thief in my sig, then review the builds posted and the 3 threads linked there.

Master of Timespace.2548:

thief is losing a fight => resets and comes back in under 30 seconds => repeat. (I do this all the time and I don’t seem to be alone :P)
norn is losing a fight => resets but doesn’t come back in a while. Or if he does*, he can’t reset again.

Let me make this a little clearer since it’ll be the second time I say it, if a 3 minute timer is to long for you, maybe you should look into adjusting your playstyle, because youre not very good. lol

Melchior.2135:

wish.1027:

Reading the thread 5 down from this about the same thing was to hard?

You mean my thread five down where your brilliant advice for a “leveling build” was predicated on a trait that’s unreachable until level 40?

All that trait does is gain you 2 extra Ini every 10 seconds… It just lets you run between mobs faster and care less, the idea behind the suggested build is not broken without it. But then I guess I shouldnt have expected you to actually look at the trait and see what it does since you were incapable of searching for advise outside of making a new thread, even though you were asking about a topic that gets reposted at least once a week in a new thread, my bad.

Reading the thread 5 down from this about the same thing was to hard?

Master of Timespace.2548:

I have norn warrior and can tell from experience that it’s not as viable as the many options thief has. Basically because of the long cl and because you have to sacrifice the good elite signet for it. That signet is very important for most warrior builds.
As a thief I also hardly ever have to WP to get out of a fight. For any x/d spec it’s enough to just find a mob to chain stealth from.

What you have to give up to run it doesnt actually matter. Its the best skill in the game for running from fights. Some classes just dont need skills like that, like Warrior and Thief. Its ridiculously OP for some classes though, like Guardian, who dont have the ability to run from 5-6 people the way warriors or thieves do.

I also wasnt trying to imply that you had to WP, I just wanted to point out that the dash actually breaks combat, that it puts you far enough away that you could WP. Sorry for the confusion there.

As far as the 3 minute cooldown… how often do you need to run from fights that it is to long for you? Maybe you have some other issues you should work on.

Aberrant.6749:

wish.1027:

Amins is just a bad Guardian I guess. Mine doesnt have much trouble with any thieves outside of S/D with lots of Ini regain ones… and even then, its not like more than about 10% of them can kill me 1 on 1.

What’s kinda funny is that there is another thread on the first page asking how to beat a tanky guard as a thief… and the general answer is just don’t bother with trying lol.

Thats a nice thread, it teaches you how to fight good Guardians, use a S/D setup or walk away.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Against a d/p thief? I find the nearest mob and spam cloack and dagger. “Hey look, I can perma stealth too!”
If he persists, then we farm mobs together!

Dragging D/P thieves into groups of mobs is almost as fun as doing it to mesmers. It handicaps them in a bad way and makes them much easier to deal with.

Acrobatics trait IX, infiltrators signet, Sword/Pistol is PVE faceroll.
Just drop smoke fields (#5), stand in them, and auto attack everything down in groups wearing all berserker gear and use the rest of your traits for damage.

Amins is just a bad Guardian I guess. Mine doesnt have much trouble with any thieves outside of S/D with lots of Ini regain ones… and even then, its not like more than about 10% of them can kill me 1 on 1.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Of all classes, thief has BY FAR the best escape abilities,

I disagree, anyone playing a norn has the best escape option in the game. Snow leopard form racial elite. Hit it, stealth (#5), then use the 1600 range dash (hold down #4) and youre out of combat and they have no idea where you are and you can WP away.

Viking Jorun.5413:

it’s impossible for me to make an educated statement in regards to Thief vs. Boon Guardian in the domain of WvW.

Fisrt sentence in this thread:

A lot of the Guardians I run into during WvW are built like tanks and I have a tough time making any lasting impression.

Did you just skip reading the whole thread? lol Thats what this thread is about!

Human Thief girls have cuter clothes, go with that.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Huh. I run 0/10/0/30/30 on my Celestial S/P thief. I don’t boon strip, but it just seemed a bit coincidental.

Before anyone goes off on me for using Celestial gear, it’s specific ONLY to my a/p build. I wouldn’t ever use it with any other build if my life depended on it. The gear is ONLY good for “universal” builds that benefit from every stat. The thief really doesn’t have too many builds like that.

Have you mathed it out to prove that going with Celestial is better than a mix of Berserkers and Soldiers? The only math Ive ever seen I actually did myself and Celestial came out behind in terms of DPS and Defense.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor
What exactly is universal about S/P too? It doesnt do condition damage. Are you offhanding P/D?

The difference between Stealth in GW2 and Stealth in old MMOs is that you dont need a target to attack in GW2. So stealth doesnt give as much of an advantage as those old tab targeting games.

Its still really strong with Mug and D/D. Precast CnD, hit steal, hit BS. All 3 hits will happen in a second, and even people with the fastest reflexes in the world cant stun break it if you do it right. But then… if you time it right most of your backstabs would probably land anyway, lol.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I also run boon strip on steal, which may be the reason I have no issues with guardians. I do tournaments daily and roam in WvW afterward. I think I’ve had my fair share of guardians in the 3,140 hours I’ve logged.

Guardian boon builds dont work in sPVP, the boon duration on runes and from your skills is heavily nerfed. What server are you on? I can show you what Im talking about if youre fighting JQ or GoM.

wish.1027 or wish.3102, dunno which account I will be on.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Berengar.6951:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Caltrops + Uncatchable + heavy condition focus will melt any guardian.

Not sure if serious

Guardians have some of the best condition removal in the game.

So people say, yet I’ve never lost a fight to one with my Condi build. When you can reapply bleeding the moment they remove it, condition removal only makes their death slower. They’re still taking damage at a consistent rate.

The moment you run into a properly built boon guardian youll know and wont be able to win. They probably wont be able to kill you either, but thats just the way it goes for Guardian sometimes.

As was said earlier, the only way to win is to have a S/D setup and be able to keep protection (helmet), regen (3 dots) and vigor (leaf) off them. Not sure if Vigor matters for Eles, but guardians gain 1k+ HP every dodge roll. Which sounds a lot easier than it is if they know how to fight S/D Thieves.

Big Tower.5423:

Again, that about critical damage, you still wont do damage by just stacking power dude. And typying has nothing do with stupidness… idiot.

Are you finally ready to show me that math about why Celestial is the best gear because it offers so much crit damage? It sure sounds like it from the beginning of your response.

Also since you’re incapable of reading and comprehending, here’s what I actually said and what I’ve always maintained.

Power, Crit Chance, and Crit Damage all matter.

I’ve never said Power is all that’s important. You however maintain that Crit Damage is all you need, which is completely wrong.

I also really liked how you completely failed again while trying to call me stupid. “And typying has nothing do with stupidness… idiot.” Typing has everything to do with stupidity. You don’t even know the proper suffix to add to stupid, which is pretty bad considering how often you like to insult others intelligence.

Big Tower.5423:

Wish, who the heck are you do you think you are a special thief? Lol, i guess he probillary wouldnt orginally post becuse of he dont want devs to get hands on it. i dont really he did it for feeling special. And wish if you hear BOONmaniac, what do you think which type of support that is then?…. Lol you are and idiot l2p.

I would love to respond to this, but you failed so hard at typing the only thing I understand is that you think I am dumb. But seriously….
“you are and idiot”? At least type correctly when you call others stupid.

EDIT:
Also, I really thought you were done posting here after the schooling I gave you last time about Crit Damage, it makes me kind of sad your particular brand of ignorance is back. But hey, maybe you learned from it.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2425144

AikijinX.6258:

And again, you neglect to realize the whole “this is my support build.” I have said this in the beginning and will continue saying this. Myself and partner are working on a better damaged based boonmaniac build, that encompasses the same boonmaniac support (boon duration) build.

Exactly what support are you giving again?

Here’s something I consider a support build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUEQNAW5elcgqC33RLEm4ES2jVCBTQsHYUG1RXFoIA-jUCBoNCyZRFRjt2NsVXRr8KIqZJSZDT9So2erIa1CBwaBA-w
It gives allies protection 75% of the time, you 100%, regen 50% of the time for everyone, you 75%~, retaliation 100% of the time for everyone, stability 33% of the time for everyone, with additional stability on demand (F3), it maintains vigor on you 100% of the time so you do 1500 heals at the end of your dodge rolls every 5 seconds, you maintain 14 stacks of might on everyone around you, 2500 heal for everyone every 15 seconds, you convert 1 condition to a boon on everyone around you every 15~ seconds, you can remove everyones conditions every 45 seconds, you have an additional 3 condi clear and 4500~ aoe heal if you need it (F2), and you get tome of courage, which is sorta OP for healing.

And this just the dependable stuff. You also get staff 2 for healing, 5 for a wall, shield 5 to absorb projectiles/heal/knock people back, your #6 does a decent heal for allies and some other stuff Im probably forgetting. You just need to keep your team a bit together and in front of you, and this build is pretty amazing for support.

PVE = sword/pistol and dagger/dagger melee damage builds depending on how many mobs youre fighting.

People say silly things about condition damage being awesome, but you shouldnt believe them. S/P with a bit into acrobatics lets you drop smoke fields 24/7 and stand in them taking 0 damage while you beat everything down in full berserker gear not caring about dodging or healing yourself like a boss.

The meta is using anything other than condition damage since most good players who are not on mesmer or thief run melandru runes and lemongrass or tons of condition removal.

Travlane.5948:

DanH.5879:

Xirin.8593:

DanH.5879:

asura for a smaller hit box

Stop posting in this forum, please.

you have any proof that i am wrong ?

i am not particularly fond of Dan H. but i try hard to be as unbiased as possible when i post. Dan H. is actually correct here. they DO have a smaller hit box than other characters. i have myself….tested this and concluded without a doubt its true, even despite what claims have been made by anet. i can make a video but dnot feel like it. if somebody puts up a bet to prove me wrong i will…. hope this helped

Anet wouldnt design their game to give asurans an inherent advantage over everyone else. If their hit box is smaller, their range is also reduced.

If you dont want to run condition removal and cant kill him, why not just walk away? Youre a Thief, you should be able to just leave in a manner he cant follow you. When I find these thieves, I kill them in 10 seconds or I leave. I dont waste time messing with them because theyre not worth the effort. Theyll never kill me, ever, and if theyre built right and play correctly it’ll take me 5+ minutes to kill them, so I just dont bother.

You should try using cloak and dagger then move from where you were standing before you stomp people…

And stealth is fine, it doesnt need buffed or nerfed.

Underboob 4tw.
The new armor doesnt look to terrible without the hat/shoulders/gloves too, but I cant find any nice gloves to go with it =/

AikijinX.6258:

Oxygen.5918:

Why do people do this? Why do you try to “hide” your build, as if it were some kind of top secret super revolution that’s worthy of the thief nobel prize? Why do you want people to whisper you? Are you looking for personal approval? Are you an attention seeking missile? I think you might be.

This is where the apparent negativity stems from. That attitude is really obnoxious. Especially since the build is absolutely not novelty. Changing 5 points doesn’t make it so either.

First off there was no “hiding” of anything. I didn’t post anything at first, due to the fact that I wanted to know and get feed back from people before actually going through and posting the build on the forums It was unfinished when I posted it because i sensed the frustration from people. And the way you speak to me so condescendingly makes me wonder why you haven’t won a thief Nobel prize yet Mr. I’m so big and bad, and as I said before I wanted feed back, not approval. Constructive criticism is good. I don’t seek attention, but apparently you do, if you feel the need to bully and lower people’s self esteem over the internet. I didn’t display an inch of attitude nor did I ask for your egotistical criticized opinion. You have some nerve to come here in that manner.

Ive won 2 Thief nobel prizes, and I agree with Oxygen, I only posted here because I found you slightly annoying with your ‘ZOMG GUIZ I HAS NEW BUILD BUT YOU CANT HAS ITS!’ If you really cared about feedback youd have posted it originally with a detailed explanation of why you picked different traits/items and asked for advise. You expected people to go crazy for you and beg for it, when its just some stuff that others have already done/thought of and realized wasnt very good.

Here, let me help you out:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQJA8YlYm6NncS4E+5Ex2DfKUe6VgsdP4qVrKA-jEDBoLDZm+AgKAO7pIas1uht6KalXBRXDT5SoW7KR2bMa1GcACBUeMA-w
Now you can actually play sword/dagger correctly because youre in the Acrobatics tree, you get executioner and have power main stat in everything, so your damage isnt so bad.
Oils
(1921+250+(35 * 25) * ((1 * .47) + ((1.5+.74) * .53))=3621.05
Stones
(2050+250+(35 * 25) * ((1 * .53) + ((1.5+.74) * .47))=3684.95
Stones win even with 25 stacks of might. Just make sure you hit that 47% Crit chance which will require a precision infusion or two.

AikijinX.6258:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYUQNAsYVlYmaPHdS+E/5ExWhe69gsj1sdPuKXzKA-jUDBoNCiUDQ0EA0ygZRFRjtIcaslSBRVTQWvAT9KpmcI2couEYyAUNGA-w

Wow…
1781 Power, 15% crit chance, 30% crit damage. Talk about inability to ever kill anything ever, even if you kept up 25 stacks of might and fury full time it wouldnt help.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Every other class can contribute to group fighting more than a thief can. So thieves are limited to roaming in WuvWuv. Yeah, “Its the only good thing we can do” Ive heard that argument a lot, and youre right, I agree with you, so thats why I know that thieves need to be buffed in other areas.

Thief does exactly what I want it to do. Coming from a game where you leveled different classes to do different things, I have no problem having a Warrior for PVE, a Guardian for Zerg fighting and Thief for solo roaming. It doesnt even take that much time or effort to level/gear something new either, so who cares. Thief is fine as it is. You just need to L2P so you come to the forums and cry less for nerfs. How about you go ask Anet for buffs for your own class instead of crying about something another class can do. The forums would be a much happier place then, and no one would have to listen to constant complaints.

Acension.9270:

what thiefs could actually do to help?

Kill/distract the things hitting your friends so they stop hitting your friends. Thats a good strategy to employ IMO.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Concept-25-Stacks-of-Might-Yes-please/first#post2219743

I bet you just use something like this.