Guild Wars 2

Maestria of Strat.2974:

wish.1027:

You have to play smart and make them burn their alternate forms and fears while you hide and kite, then you can get an easy kill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgE5BJs0MQI

Good video. That thief looks like full zerk which makes even more interesting fighting necro.

I wasn’t aware that shadow return removed conditions.

Thanks for tip.

Its no where near full Berserker, lol. Im using a 10/30/30/0/0 setup with Soldiers Weapons, Hat, Body, Legs, Divinity runes, and everything else is Berserkers.

Big Tower.5423:

Screw winning, there is a truth done with that, if you only care about winning go play some football or some kitten like that. I tell the TRUTH…

Edit: by the way if you cant dodge killshot or turn around for a backstab you are an AWFUL player.

How can you say you speak the truth when you dont even know what the truth is? You can’t even do simple video game math to prove if youre correct or not. And if you can, nows your chance to do it and prove yourself.

As for dodging, when youre fighting a bunch of people… stuff happens. Acting like youre above ever being snuck up on just shows how terrible at the game you really are, you wont even admit youre not perfect.

Big Tower.5423:

Again, valkyrie vs solider is just unneeded survablity vs damage. there is same power + critdamage with valkyrie, so why go solider? increase your EHP? HAHAA, you are an thief, you DONT rely on EHP to survive.

To increase Precision instead of increasing Crit Damage, since the extra Crit Chance increases your Total DPS more than the Crit Damage does. Please try and follow the conversation, youre not even reading at this point, you just think people are using all Soldiers gear instead of Valkyrie. You mix the Soldiers with extra pieces of Berserkers kid.

Aeden.5896:

Valkyrie is always greater direct damage than soldier.

It seriously isn’t. Soldiers with Berserkers is better.

Show me a Valkyrie/Berserkers gear set and I will show you a Soldiers/Berserkers setup with basically the same EHP and more DPS and the math that proves it.

Big Tower.5423:

You have many ways to bring up your critchance, and its overkill with survablity to run soiliders, you can do things like perception sigil/foodbuffs to bring up your critchance while still doing way better damage than with spliders,

If you ever actually read any of the math Ive posted and tried to understand it, or looked at my builds at all, youd know I always use Candied dragonrolls and Master Maintenance Oils with Superior Sigil of Bloodlust, because those offer the most DPS when compared to other options.

Big Tower.5423:

You simply overkill with your EHP,

I dont add EHP to my builds compared to what others use, I have the same EHP as Yishis’s build, which is all Valkyrie and Berserkers, but I out damage his build, by a good 10%.

Big Tower.5423:

you imagine you are a so pro thief… Sad for you becuse you are awfully wrong, Thief survablity is NOT EHP, its to not get hit.

Getting hit is inevitable, my build simply has enough EHP to take a full on Backstab combo from a GC thief, or a GC killshot, and live. Then I maximized DPS and sustain after achieving that plateau of EHP. Again, if you ever actually read anything I posted, youd know that.

Big Tower.5423:

16 + k hp, 3000 somthing AA, 110 when correctly buffed you shuld get between 60-70 chance which competly makes critdamage WAAAY better than precsion,

If youre going to make statements like that, why dont you show us the math that proves youre right.

Big Tower.5423:

Crit damage is the way to go as a thief, please play atleast a hour of the class before making your statements, screw teory crafting it does not count disorientation and moblity in it.

The last part of this sentence doesnt even make sense, please take an English class for at least an hour before trying to respond to people on the internet to prove how awesome you are. Decent grammar and posting math is how you win internet arguments about video game gear, not typing illegible walls of text.

Big Tower.5423:

Critdamage outperforms toughness! valkyrie armor + zerker everything else, than you can run stack sigils, 30 CS, and consumeables to buff your critchance, dont listen to wish, he is an awful thief

Why dont you type out the math that proves me wrong then, because Ive typed out math 6-7 times that proves Im right to you.

Like right here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/WvW-Thief-looking-for-some-insight/first#post2674725

And why didnt you ever respond to this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2425144

I was waiting for you to come back and prove me wrong, but you never did!

Galandil.9641:

The EHP concept would be perfect if the game wasn’t so condition oriented as it is now, since armor doesn’t influence the damage you receive from conditions…

I don’t want to mean that EHP is useless, but that it should be clear that when dealing with conditions, the Armor factor is nil, and all that matters in that case is the hp pool of the condition recipient.

1. Its 600 HP.
Its like a 3% Increase to your HP.
It’s not going to save you.

2. Conditions are best dealt with by avoiding or removing them, not stacking HP.

3. If conditions were really that much of an issue, you’d run lemongrass and melandru runes full time with the Soldiers/Berserker setup. Not HP gear like a chump. L2P.

Jesse.4631:

Why not use Cavalier, Berserker and Valkyrie stats O.o it seems effective to me, you don’t crit dmg but you still get that toughness you waned or use Valkyrie if you want some more Vitality

Cavalier doesn’t have main stat Power, so it cant be taken seriously as a contender. Cavalier/Knights should only be used in sets where you gain a large advantage by stacking DR, and you you need to use pretty much only Cav/Knights when you do that or its just a waste of potential.

Hype.8032:

wish.1027:

You have to play smart and make them burn their alternate forms and fears while you hide and kite, then you can get an easy kill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgE5BJs0MQI

So the trick to beating them is to find a newb necro in wvw and after waiting out plague form heartseeker him at full health? kitten that necro was bad.

Its funny how you have Thief at 80 and dont understand using HS as a gap closer. You gonna complain about the one I used where he was at full health and I didnt even hit him next?

You have to play smart and make them burn their alternate forms and fears while you hide and kite, then you can get an easy kill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgE5BJs0MQI

Excalibur.9748:

You’d have same EHP with valkyrie or soldiers VS conditions, but valkyrie would grant more critical damage.

And Soldiers/Berserkers would grant more crit chance, and more overall damage output. The HP VS DR discussion just slightly skews which type of damage you can take 4% more of. Soldiers wins out because of better DPS.

Excalibur.9748:

By saying HP is useless vs conditions is like saying EHP is useless.

So you can sing the praises of 600 HP all day long about how its so amazing and lets you live VS conditions when with toughness youd have died… but I dont believe it.

Excalibur.9748:

And stats do differ for different weapons, if you run full zerk with S/D you’d get pwned while it is okay for D/P.

Running full zerkers is suicide regardless of weapon set. Ask the 99999 dead GC D/P or D/D thieves Ive encountered.

Excalibur.9748:

The mere fact that you don’t run S/D anymore says to me that stat combo you run is no good for it.

I havent played GW2 in 2-3 months actually. I used S/D a lot when I still played. Its not that I quit S/D, D/D, D/P or THF, its that I quit playing GW2.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

For further reading on scrubonomics, check out:
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

Sirlin wrote that article over a decade ago and not much has changed.

I love that article. It’s a must read.
I remember like 8? years ago when I first read it and played FFXI, and it motivated me to be the best I could possibly be, and learn the game mechanics, learn the math, learn how stuff interacts, etc. That desire to not be a scrub has continued with me to this day and Im very thankful for this article as I had never even thought about it before then.

Soldiers is better.

The basic idea is that your EHP (Effective HP = (Armor * HP) / 1836, this tells you how much damage you can take before dieing) is the same with all Valkyrie armor compared to Soldiers hat, legs, body with Berserkers hands, boots, shoulders. But, the 4% Crit chance youll gain from the precision on the Bers gear is worth more damage than the 10% Crit Damage you gain on Valkyrie armor due to diminishing returns and high existing Crit Damage. Unless you run hidden killer and your ‘attacks done from stealth’ exceed about 60% of your total damage (Protip: They dont exceed that in PVE ever, and only rarely in PVP)

In PVE use all Berserkers gear with Soldiers hat and legs with 10 or 15 traits into toughness or vitality and you shouldnt be one shotted by anything outside of high fractals, but youll come really, really close. Once you learn when to use dodges you’ll be good to go and can swap the soldiers pieces out most of the time, but infusion of shadow or feline grace should always be in your traits IMO depending on weapon set, so youll want to keep those defensive traits.

Bastien.1645:

Can any one offer some advice?

I’ll offer you advise.

Buy blue gear for every slot at lvl 80 and copy those builds/weapon sets and try them out in lvl 70 or lower PVE stuff to see which you like the best, then look for math detailing why one set is the best for the playstyle you decide on, then copy that gear set and trait setup.

Big Tower.5423:

Valk zerk is the way to go

Oh you, what will this be, the 6th time Ive proven you wrong?

Soldiers with Berserkers offers more damage and defense than Valkyrie with Berserkers, no matter what weapon set you are using, or what your traits look like.

You cannot make critical hit damage damage worth more than critical hit chance in any way with any sort of balanced build. The only way you could make C Damage worth more is if you used a lot of knights gear that would increase your precision and not your C Damage. (Which by the way is very bad, because Power is the most useful stat for damage output, and you want Power as the main stat on every piece of gear)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/WvW-Thief-looking-for-some-insight/first#post2674725

These two posts by me explain damage calculations, diminishing returns, and show exactly why Soldiers+Berserkers wins for damage when building for the same amount of EHP compared to using any Valkyrie gear.

@OP:
I was using this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJA8YlYmiO3ey7E/5Ey2jdqC5JvCkV3DuyqqKA-jUyAorATfAoCwZvioxWFLiGruGT5KEpdTt9uIa1CBUeBA-w
when I was playing S/D. The extra Ini and Endurance on weapon swap using double S/D is pretty amazing when all you do is spam 3 and dodge roll. (And Slice once in awhile I guess)

It looks like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gqY3pOA3gC4
But ignore my caltraps, I was trying them out for a bit to see how well theyd do, turned out most people were using Lyssa runes and Lemongrass so I got rid of them.

Ghostwolf.9863:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmSO3bS6E/5Ex2jeuTeqVgmdP4q8tKA-jEzAYLBRiCAZBiKAm8W0a2LgVxioxqXwUlCp6yI7NAcHMa1SBExyI-w

+1 for correct gear placement.
Youre super cool.

Candied Dragonroll would do better for food though, and its vastly cheaper, unless you take 0 damage when you fight people (which is most likely not true) You should look at Oils too, they probably add more damage than Stones since your crit rate is under 50%.

Excalibur.9748:

Incurafy.6329:

You shouldn’t use Valkyrie, Ghost, you should use more Zerker + Soldier pieces. Look for Wish’s “building a better D/D Thief” thread for all of his math and stuff which shows why Zerker + Soldier is optimal.

that’s D/D (different playstyle, different traits, leads into different equipment) and valkyrie can be worth it. armor is useless vs conditions (not a good thing when it’s condi meta and considering low base thief HP), and useless vs fall damage. does his formula even take into account that? i don’t think so.

Armor is useless VS conditions, so is HP, thats why I was running Lyssa Runes and Bask Venom. But, the meta isnt built around conditions, sorry. And speaking from a standpoint of simple numbers, Soldiers+Berserkers will always offer more EHP and DPS compared to Valkyrie and Berserkers when built to similar levels of EHP, it has nothing to do with traits or weapon sets, thats just how it is based on the numbers.

DatPieGuy.6540:

So i haven’t played gw2 in several months

Im pretty sure this is the current thief meta.

w

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/New-Assasin-stats/first#post2815095

The search function, its awesome.

freelancecoma.8629:

Im going to make a Video Guide first.

So please have patience with me as this is still a Work in Progress.

Maybe you shouldnt make a thread about it until youve done everything else then?

All youre proving is that S/D THFs dodge a lot? Who didnt know that? I was expecting more!

Use Sword/Pistol to level up, use the pistol #5 to avoid most damage and go for all offensive stats and traits (power, precision, crit damage)

incandescence.6784:

Celestial gear is highly underrated.

Celestial gear is overrated and very bad.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2424729

Clumsy.6257:

I have 7 80s currently but have leveled 12 to 80

So wait, why do you need 5-6 full sets of berserker gear with ruby orbs per character exactly? You could probably salvage 4-5 of them and be able to afford a scholar rune set for the remaining set…

Doggie.3184:

Traveler runes, since you get a 3rd utility slot. .-.

Traveler runes are indeed super awesome, but we’re talking about runes that don’t give utility, so those are not included in the discussion since +25% movement speed is utility.

mPascoal.4258:

So I have 77% crit damage with valkyrie an you want me to take to 61% and have 2600 armor
Foes the damage loss compensates the armor gain (Idk but the settence is problably really bad, but I don’t want to use google translate)

Your damage and EHP both go up using Soldiers and Berserkers to match the EHP gains of Valkyrie.

I think I maybe wrote out the math here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/WvW-Thief-looking-for-some-insight/first#post2674725
or here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Building-a-better-D-D-thief/page/3

The ideal gear set is building your EHP to the level you want with soldiers gear in the correct slots, then all berserkers gear.

Soldiers and Berserkers, not Valkyrie.

Anubarak.3012:

wish.1027:

Clumsy.6257:

just like its common knowledge that pow/prec/crit % are the only stats that matter in pve

Then why are you advocating kitten ruby orbs?

What? I really dont understand what do you want to say oO?
Ruby Orbs = pow/prec/crit% but you cant know that if you dont even play gw2

Maybe you should of read everything I posted instead of just the first sentence if you wanted to understand what I am saying…

Clumsy.6257:

wish.1027:

Clumsy.6257:

just like its common knowledge that pow/prec/crit % are the only stats that matter in pve

Then why are you advocating kitten ruby orbs?
As I said earlier… If you never get hit Scholar runes are vastly superior… and if you do get hit well, ya, youre gonna have some defensive stats and Divinity runes 4tw.

And if you even come back as a PVE carebear and say Scholar is expensive, Im going to mock you forever.

im advocating ruby orbs because theyre dirt cheap and the best stat combination next to scholars and when your like me and have over 40 sets of armor between all your characters putting 15g of runes on every set is ridiculous

Why would you have 40 sets of armor and use them all only for Direct Physical damage?

Maybe you should take a page from what I do, and learn the math behind the game, then build the optimal set of gear for each circumstance and not have ineffective useless sets of armor. Unless youre saying you have 40 characters, which I dont believe for a second. My way only requires 3 sets of berserker/soldier armor and 9 scholar runes and 9 divinity runes… And I know my sets are the most effective possible too, and I can prove it with math.

Divinity runes: Complete soldier set, berserker gloves, shoes, shoulders.
Scholar runes: Complete berserker set, soldiers body, legs, hat.

Mix and match complete rune sets for purposes as needed.

Dee Jay.2460:

So in your book running away from most Thief fights counts as a win?

Youre not running away because you cant win or youre afraid of them, youre baiting them into playing stupidly, and not playing into their tactics. If they dont chase you, you can chase them, if they do chase you its an easy win.

Another thing I like to do is remain visible and attack groups of 15+ players, then run away to string them out so I can kill the bads who chase me. Thats not really running away either, its just a tactic to win a fight and kill some people.

Clumsy.6257:

just like its common knowledge that pow/prec/crit % are the only stats that matter in pve

Then why are you advocating kitten ruby orbs?
As I said earlier… If you never get hit Scholar runes are vastly superior… and if you do get hit well, ya, youre gonna have some defensive stats and Divinity runes 4tw.

And if you even come back as a PVE carebear and say Scholar is expensive, Im going to mock you forever.

Anubarak.3012:

@Wish you still post in PvE topics without any experience…..
Pls go back to WvW

I dont even play this game, but that doesnt mean my proving 3 is a bigger number than 2 is wrong.

Except that cat never goes invisible! He must be using S/D like Jumper.

Clumsy.6257:

only pow/prec matter

I had a good laugh.
Thanks for that.

I dont understand how people can say D/P thieves beat them when theyre on D/D. Ive never lost to a D/P thief 1v1 on D/D, ever.

This is a legit L2P issue. D/D should crush D/P every time.

The thing youre all doing wrong is the same thing most people do wrong when you fight a thief. You play their game, and then you lose. The trick to fighting thieves is to not do what they want. They wanna drop a smoke field and fight you in it? Dont, just walk away. They wanna stealth? Thats fine, just leave. They cant keep stealth up and chase you, make them pick between the two. They wanna follow you around and HS in smoke fields for 20 minutes? Thats fine, walk into a group of mobs, train a ton together, then CnD them til he gets bored and leaves or moves into them to fight you (which will cripple him and give you an insane advantage as your stealth is now better and his is far worse)

With these simple tips you should now be able to crush D/P thieves like every other D/D thief! Especially since they mostly run all berserker gear and die in 1 cnd > mug > BS chain just like every other bad thief.

Clumsy.6257:

wish.1027:

Divinity runes are good if you dont need utility from runes as they give the most useful stats compared to any other rune set (+40 useful stats and 2% Crit damage each.)

Celestial gear however is just terrible. You should never use it, ever, for anything, not even a single piece, ever, for anything ever, never. Unless they increase the stats it offers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2424729

divinity runes are bad, sure 12% crit damage, 60 pow/prec might seem good but compared to ruby orbs with 12% crit damage, 120 pow, 84 prec theyre much worse and a lot more expensive

Ruby orbs offer 35 stats (20 power 15 precision) and 2 crit damage.
Divinity runes offer 40 useful stats (10 power, precision, toughness, vitality) and 2 crit damage

Ruby orbs can never win in a comparison if you have any defensive stats anywhere, since Divinity offer more stats, and Ruby orbs are garbage compared to Scholar runes so… ya.

Warrior gets buffed every patch, Thief gets nerfed every patch, and Warrior is already better in WvW and PVE.

Divinity runes are good if you dont need utility from runes as they give the most useful stats compared to any other rune set (+40 useful stats and 2% Crit damage each.)

Celestial gear however is just terrible. You should never use it, ever, for anything, not even a single piece, ever, for anything ever, never. Unless they increase the stats it offers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2424729

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Building-a-better-D-D-thief/first

jonwar.4186:

hey wish, I’ve adopted your gear suggestions to the T and I must say I really notice the staying power and keeping up respectable damage. However, I’m curious behind your thoughts on how much you value toughness over vitality, no math needed, what is your first thought on how important it is to the thief and what would the final toughness rating you personally wouldnt go below?

I ask because I’m trying to learn sword dagger and taking the 30 points out of shadow arts for trickery or more points in acrobatics is losing alot of toughness and armour, I can only begin to make up for these lost points with full knights or soldiers gear. help?

For Thief, its all about effective trades for defense, so you only use soldiers gear. You shouldnt worry about DR because your sustain is not amazing. DR is only super, super amazing if youre like say, a warrior using the regen signet that ticks for 500 hp/tick or whatever BS it is… lol.

Thiefs main form of survival is avoiding hits through stealth or dodge spam, this build is just setup so you can take that glass super buffed backstab or killshot, which for whatever reason seems to happen to me way to often when I play this game. So I wouldnt worry to much about DR vs HP (and in fact for thief I dont) and just look at EHP.

EHP = (Armor * HP) / 1836
Armor = Toughness + Defense
(Armor and HP are viewable on Character Screen)
DR = ( Armor -1836) / Armor

A mix of Soldiers and Berserkers gear instead of Valkyrie offers more defense and more DPS. Math can be found by clicking thief in my sig and reading.

Id go with Knights personally. Shortbow is only good for running away, and Knights has the best defensive stat combination for something you throw on and run away with (Main stat Toughness.) If you want to know why this is better than Soldiers, which has Vit and Toughness, its because the added Vit wont increase your HP if you swap it on during combat, so just go with the bow that has Toughness main stat since its only good for running away, and adding defense when running away is good.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Building-a-better-D-D-thief/first

Pwnzor.5682:

i will test your build out

My posts are not about builds (weapon choices, trait selection, rune/sigil/food choices made for reasons other than DPS and stat point distribution)

Theyre about the gear setup (which armor pieces you use, what stats they have, what sigils/runes/food you use if theyre only used to increase DPS)

I would never put someone down for their build, except the parts theyre only doing for DPS if better ways to increase DPS exist, since that is all about playstyle and the things you like to do. Gear choices however can be made correctly or incorrectly, and we will never have a good community if people continue to advertise incorrect gear setups.

Pwnzor.5682:

well got it om buildcraft. and my build still does more dmg. a bid less survival but with the celestial daggers i get 80 healingpower extra so that gives more healing in stealth etc.

mine :http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|8.1j.h2.8.1j.h17.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j.1p.71j|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|a3.u36c.u45b.0.0|39.1|57.5h.5b.5c.5v|e

Power 2174 Precision 1832 Crit Damage 122%

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAoY8YlUmiO3ey5E/5Ey2jdqCJKuHGVS1UaFoJA-jEzAorBRTWCNRAiKAk8UWzeCiVtioxqrxUuDRW7iavJiWt5wCBUeBA-w

Power 2166 Precision 1924 Crit Damage 92%

Now that we know some stats, lets fight a 2700 armor person, and check the damage on some of our skills….

Your Lotus Strike
(981 * (2174 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .5) + ((1.5 + 1.22) * .5)) * 0.847) / 2700 =
1507.7084484
My Lotus Strike
((981 * (2166 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .48) + ((1.5 + .92) * .52)) * 0.847) / 2700) + (650 * .66 * .52) =
1627.94013401

Your CnD
(981 * (2174 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .5) + ((1.5 + 1.22) * .5)) * 1.624) / 2700 =
2890.8128928
My CnD
((981 * (2166 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .48) + ((1.5 + .92) * .52)) * 1.624) / 2700) + (650 * .66 * .52) =
2916.69612471

Your Lotus Strike
(981 * (2174 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .5) + ((1.5 + 1.22) * .5)) * 0.847) / 2700 =

My Lotus Strike
((981 * (2166 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .48) + ((1.5 + .92) * .52)) * 0.847) / 2700) + (650 * .66 * .52) =

Your Lotus Strike
(981 * (2174 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .5) + ((1.5 + 1.22) * .5)) * 0.847) / 2700 =

My Lotus Strike
((981 * (2166 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .48) + ((1.5 + .92) * .52)) * 0.847) / 2700) + (650 * .66 * .52) =

Your Lotus Strike
(981 * (2174 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .5) + ((1.5 + 1.22) * .5)) * 0.847) / 2700 =

My Lotus Strike
((981 * (2166 + 250 + (35 * 6)) * ((1 * .48) + ((1.5 + .92) * .52)) * 0.847) / 2700) + (650 * .66 * .52) =

I started to write out a bunch of comparisons, then I stopped caring because this is taking to long. Believe what you want, i dont care anymore.

Pwnzor.5682:

using this right now, dont know what u mean but thiefs get there dmg out of backstabs and crits. so a hight crit dmg is needed for that. maybe is it just me that sucks :p build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPHdS5E+5Ey2jdqCJKuHOlR1UaFoJA-jkxAo+AitgSfFRjtqVENWdNmylIqGA-w

Im talking about diminishing returns, and how crit damage isnt worth much when you start to exceed 80%. I know its a hard concept to grasp, but seriously, stop posting about your proven to be worse valkyrie setup and misleading people into making bad gear choices.

And for pitys sake… celestial gear? really? you should just stop sharing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/WvW-Thief-looking-for-some-insight/first#post2674725
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2424729

When i die on thief, 99% of the time its because of last refugee.

I use Lyssa on stealthless double S/D. Theyre not really useful to me for other setups though. I think travelers is the new awesome rune set for thieves.

For gearing, the correct way to go about it is to use all berserkers gear then add soldiers to the slots you gain the most stats for crit damage until your EHP is where you want it to be. Like crit damage in legs costs 16 stats per 1%, and on gloves its 12 stats per 1% crit damage, so youd switch the legs to soldiers before the gloves to make the most efficient use of your gear.

Soldiers and berserkers maths out to more damage and defense than valkyrie with berserkers too. If you want specifics, click thief in my sig and at the bottom of the post is lots of threads you can read through.

Pwnzor.5682:

i run this, best build ever :p no just kitting. but its a realy good one http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPHdS5E+5Ey2jdqCJKuHOlR1UdFwKA-jUxAYLBx0XR0YraFRjVXjpcJiqlCwixAA-w

works to http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPHdS5E+5Ey2jdqCJKuHOlR1UdFwKA-jUxAYLBx0XR0YLbFRjVXjpcJiqlCwhxAA-w

Seriously.

Stop.

Soldiers and berserkers gives more damage and defense than throwing on a bunch of valkyrie.

Math can be found by clicking thief in my sig and then going to the threads at the bottom of that post and reading.

123456789012345

It looks a lot better, I didnt think you used half ascended gear because thats what you had, I just thought thats what the build you looked at used, but I think thats what you own now, lol. Soldiers exotic back can be obtained at grenth, gw2bear or whatever can show you which temples are open on what servers, just guest and pick one up.

The next thing you switch to soldiers is weapons btw. And a knights bow isnt a bad idea if you only use it to run away, since it gives tons of toughness (which will help with running away) instead of toughness and vit (the vit wouldnt have any effect)

Oils tend to be better than stones, when using bloodlust (and you should never stack precision). Click thief in my sig and at the bottom of the post is links to threads with lots of math if youre really interested. If you want to see which will work best for you, simply dump your stats into this equation, add oils or stones, then put it into google, and see which gives a better result:

52% crit rate = .52
103% crit damage = 1.03
etc

(power + bloodluststacks + (35 * might stacks)) * ((1 * .nonecritrate) + ((1.5 + .critdamage) * .critrate)) =

Darksun.1054:

do you have any experience with a 0/20/30/20/0 build?

Yes, it doesnt really kill things, but its fun to troll people with.

Both of those are bad and have bad gear placement.

Like on your pants, each point of crit damage costs 16 stats, why would you use soldiers gear on your gloves where they cost 12 stats with berserkers pants?

These are a little less EHP than I prefer, but these are what your gear setup should look like:
Ascended:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmiP3eS5E+5Ex2jeuTiy9wpGtpdFwKA-j0BBYfCiJPKrZPCilhFRjVXDT5SIS7K1SBUuwI-w
Exotic:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmiP3eS5E+5Ex2jeuTiy9wpGtpdFwKA-jkCBYLCikFBiKAM5ZRrZPBsMsIas6FYqSCp6SR2boIa1SBUuwI-w

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The choice between Berserker and Valkyrie is trading Vit with Prec without touching Power – which is acceptable.

Using a bunch of Valkyrie gear is never acceptable.

N E V E R

Soldiers with Berserkers gives more damage and defense than Berserkers with Valkyrie.

Chewy.9263:

@Wish
I get the math, but you need to remember that this is for this specific build. I believe Assassin’s armor with a mixture of Zerk Trinkets is a nice balance. You will crit more, giving your on crit sigils to proc more often. Your analysis of assassin’s vs Zerk is for this build only.

My analysis shows that with this build that stacks tons of power in traits, full bloodlust and full might stacks, berserkers still wins. Once you remove those traits in power berserkers only gets even better than assassins…. seriously, assassins can never win.

And if you seriously think thats a nice balance, then maybe you should do the math and show it to us so we can know if its really a good mix or not. Here, I will even help you out:

(power + bloodlust + (35 * might stacks)) *
((1 * .nonecritchance) + ((1.5 + .critdamage) * .critchance)) = damage

GL <3

Keiel.7489:

Higher critchance might’ve been worth it in some builds before they nerfed some of the on crit food buffs. 50-60% Crt% is usually where I stay at and feel it’s plenty for any build.

You should never talk about your feelings in a discussion about math, what are you, a girl?

Malbidion.7381:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.4|8.1l.a4.8.1l.a4.0.0.0|5.1l.a4.0.0.0|1l.7i.1l.0.1l.0.1l.0.1l.0.1l.0|1l.64.1l.64.1l.64.1l.64.1l.64.1l.64|p39.u36b.0.0.f5|0.0|57.5c.5a.5p.0|e

Using your build vs a berserkers set and pretending we have all ascended gear where ascended is available, even if assassins pieces dont exist there yet..

No might
2259 power
70% crit chance
100% crit damage
(2259+ 250) * ((1 * .3) + ((1.5+ 1) * .7)= 5143.45
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAoY8YlUmiO3ey5E/5Ey2jdqCJK/DklODaqlA-j0BBYfDiO5pIasVRFRjVXDT5iIq2ebY1G0JSKgyFGB-w

2038 power
80% crit chance
100% crit damage
(2038+ 250) * ((1 * .2) + ((1.5+ 1) * .8)= 5033.6
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAoY8YlUmiO3ey5E/5Ey2jdqCJK/DklODaqlA-j0BBoiDiORqIasVRFRjVTjIqWXDzebY1G0JSKgyVGB-w

21 might stacks
(2259+ 250+ (35* 21)) * ((1 * .3) + ((1.5+ 1) * .7)= 6650.2
(2038+ 250+ (35* 21)) * ((1 * .2) + ((1.5+ 1) * .8)= 6650.6

The assassins set needs 21 stacks of might and 25 stacks of bloodlust to win, totally not worth it.

Edit before going to sleep:
Just realized the crit chance on the berserker set is to high for oil, gogo waking up at 4am for work and being tired at 8pm…

If you use stones with the berserker set the assassins set cant ever win, heres the 21 might set with stones instead of oils.
(2356+ 250+ (35* 21)) * ((1 * .3) + ((1.5+ 1) * .7)= 6849.05

Red Falcon.8257:

I disagree with those builds.
30 SA won’t do much at all, especially when compared to the 1000+ EPower that you get from 25 in DA.

Except effective power doesnt mean anything.

Effective power = Weapon Damage + Power
Damage calculation in game = Weapon damage * Power

See the difference? Effective power is crap and shouldnt be used for anything except baseline comparisons between sets when the calculator on gw2buildcraft does it for you, unless the numbers are close, in which case it shouldnt be used at all. If you read this thread, thats why I moved away from using it to using actual damage calculations. I wasnt aware at first that it was bad, sorry for that.

But you are right, if you move toughness traits to power traits you do gain more damage, but you cant keep the 21.5k EHP the set is designed around. The problem I have with your suggestion is that the toughness traits are the best for long drawn out 1vX fights =/

Red Falcon.8257:

25 DA is a static 15% dmg increase

This is slightly misleading. The + 15% damage isnt worth 15% damage. Since youre adding to a whole, it gives diminishing returns, and you already have a lot of + % damage. Even with only like + 30% added damage base (easy to do on Thief) your 15% is worth
(1.3 + .15)/ 1.3=1.11538461538
11.5% damage.

Red Falcon.8257:

on top of 250 power bonus and a guaranteed Poison for 12+ sec on engage.
300hp/s while in stealth just doesn’t match the above.

It’s 150 power (I advise using mug), and its worth like
(2500+ 150)/ 2500= 1.06
6%~ damage. So its really not as amazing as you think it is, we didnt even talk about the might stacks you get from the 25 SA minor trait, which tends to keep 6 up, so youre really losing 60 power…

As for shadows embrace, its 350~ HP/sec in stealth, and assuming you spend about half your time in stealth, youre talking about gaining 2%~ of your EHP every second on average. Its actually pretty amazing, not to mention if youre good at timing the CnD blinds how much AOE mitigation that is, since the blind hits everyone around you.

Switching it with any of the normal traits people pick is fine with me. Be it clear conditions in stealth, blind on stealth or gain 2 ini on stealth. Even changing it to something simple like dropping a blinding powder field would work for me.

Pavel.8531:

until you are ready to switch to more glassy gear(valkyrie and berserker pieces).

Lulz, not this crap AGAIN.

Seriously.

Mixing Soldiers and Berserkers gives more defense and damage than mixing Valkyrie and Berserkers.

How many times do I have to go over this?

Math can be found by clicking thief in my sig and following links at the bottom of that post because Im not posting it again in yet another place.