Do you really believe GW2 balance is as easy as cooking a meal? Also, I think you aren’t going to cut down a recipe from 3 hours to 10 minutes, that’s usually called raw food.
For one i wasnt preparing tourkey. As for the change its a rweak to a functionality to a skill which has already happened elsewhere for the exact same reason.
Much like with legendary armor total w8 time for first set was 2 years if they ever made a new one it would be around 1 maybe less.
Feedback for this skill was that it was underwhelming so i expect a defensive componment to be added. No, you cant say that to everything that broken clunky or bugged (except similar cases with other elite specs). Simply because they are selling an expac on these ones.
Mirrors feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Axe skills feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Ambushes feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Shatters feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Mantras feel clunky, they can be fixed.
Master of Manipulation + Mass Invisibility feels clunky, it can be fixed.
Mirage traits feel clunky, they can be fixed.I’m fairly certain it’s applicable, but it doesn’t respond to a discussion.
Mirrors feels underwhelming can be fixed.(i suggested a fix imo)
Axe does as well can be fixed.
Some ambish skills feel clunky can be fix by being homing projectiles like the axe one.
Shatters feel clunky in pve*, not mirage’s issue to fix. (ori had a great suggestion on that)
Mantras feel clunky, mirage cloak fixes that.
The manipulation trait and the elite is plain stupidity.
Traits can be changed and tweaked to be more consisted and reliable.
Again they expect ppl to buy to play this if its kitten non will buy for it they will simply do content on the hot ones.
Have you seen firebrand?
Ahh my bad thought u were refering at axe 2. Ye i remember that skill being clunky even tho iv see it be sucessfully performed wven if you dont face the target. Still it just needs some polish to work so not much work there.
You can say that to anything that’s broken, bugged, or even clunky. That doesn’t change anything.
Also, if you want to talk about Axe2, it’s kind of a bad skill because it almost forces you to dodge while using it. It’s a dash attack that doesn’t provide any defensive options. There are many small dashes similar to that, but almost every single one of them provide you with some defense (there is one exception).
Death’s Charge destroys projectiles and blinds foes.
Surge of the MIsts is an evade and knocks back foes.
Death Blossom is an evade.
Whirlwind Attack is an evade.
Weakening Charge is the only exception, but it does almost double the damage of Lingering Thoughts and doesn’t hamper the Daredevils damage output (see: LT summons a clone).
Feedback for this skill was that it was underwhelming so i expect a defensive componment to be added. No, you cant say that to everything that broken clunky or bugged (except similar cases with other elite specs). Simply because they are selling an expac on these ones.
Power Warrior got nerfed to death.
Power Ranger has hardly ever been good besides in dungeons where it was about bursting enemies down.In fractals you’ll not want condi classes, apart from condi ps, due to the fights being relatively short.
Power druid i believe is as good as condi druid atm. Also in t4 it doesnt really matter unless u are on the top 5% both playstyles will prob average on kill times.
You might want to add some context. You listed 4 instances where you have encounters and now you’re talking about phases and the last 2 bosses without referring to which instance.
I wouldnt bet money on axe 2 staying like that for long much like scepter was chatged insee this changing as well.
It took them 3.33 years to make that change.
Ye it did. It also took me 3 hours to prepare my first dish. Now it takes me like 10 mins to make the same dish. In dev’s case luckily theres ppl that can provide feedback about that.
Axes of Symmetry is Axe3. You get placed randomly around your target and may not be in range of Axe auto attacks, as well as not facing your target (and therefore not leaping/applying 5 Confusion +1 Phantasmal Seeking Axe if traited).
It is a random reposition tool.
Ahh my bad thought u were refering at axe 2. Ye i remember that skill being clunky even tho iv see it be sucessfully performed even if you dont face the target. I dont agree its a random reposition tool as ots aim its to always reposition you on your target unlike downed 2 which looks to be random. Still it just needs some polish to work so not much work there.
wish the forums where better at evading this bug.
Ah yes, the ole’ “moving is fine because you’re moving”. Our downed 2 is amazing, I agree.
Iirc axe 2 moves you on the direction u are looking at or the target’s location. Iirc downed 2 is a random reposition tool.
Speaking of mesmer downed 2 id like it to break target that way avenger wont kitten me over in fractals.
(edited by zealex.9410)
Honestly, Axe is an awkward weapon. Axe auto attacks are kinda weak (although the final auto is much better than the final Scepter auto). You can’t really use Axe2 without breaking Phantasms, and it’s a burst ability (woo). Axe3 takes longer than the 0.75s to come out because it also has a leap after the cast/teleport, and you can potentially get put into damage or other things. Lastly, if you get caught on terrain/face the wrong way, or something else happens to prevent the leap, you wasted a huge amount of time and didn’t get the 5 Confusion (which means you’re better off auto attacking). So you’ll want to spam an attack that may misfire on you because the stronger attack (Axe2) hurts your dps.
I wouldnt bet money on axe 2 staying like that for long much like scepter was chatged insee this changing as well.
Cd is too long and you can’t retarget them onto Sam without suiciding.
Boss 2 and 3 for S/O won’t work because the bosses disappear and reappear so you’d still have to resummon. Deimos prides aren’t killed unless they’re close, so that’s a pretty irrelevant point (they should be immob “stunned”). Chaos Fractals boss the retarget won’t be up after mobs are dead, so you’d have to retarget them onto the Anomaly, lowering your encounter dps.
Last 2 phases the mobs are tanky enough where you will most likely have it off cd. SO u can creates clone on the adds that spawn and before they die retarget onto to the main boss on boss’ 2 case. On boss 3 u have the phantasms off cd by the time anomalies apear so u can simpy retarget kill that one fast then resummon with little to no dps loss.
Actually, after the adrenaline change last patch, core war is par with berserker war IMO. Which is great.
Personally I think core guard is better than DH.
Both for spvp at best, please note the game mode you are making statements about since the usuall game mode on the non pvp forum is pve.
As far as pve, that statement is so far from the truth it hurts.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.
And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.
Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla
1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.
2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.
Still waiting for an answer to this.
Sorry, thought I had replied to this.
1) I fully agree with you if elite specs are supposed to be better than core, Mirage has low numbers, I’m not arguing with that, I just assumed the numbers would be buffed.
2) I disagree that Mirage is worse at dodging and attacking, since it literally does that better with the new dodge mechanic on top of what mes already has. will say that it’s got worse mobility than Mesmer though.
1) The mechanics are fundementally broken. Unless they buff the numbers up so Mirage axe is some auto attacking beast and you ignore most of what the elite spec offers but even then you will just end up a worse DD.
2) It adds no new ways to play. Mesmer provides ways to avoid damage while still attacking and then has dodges for when you need to move away from where you are. Mirage takes those dodges away.
The mobility of mirage is higher lmao. Also mesmer has 2 ways to avoid dmg and 1 of them forces you do use a specific skill which locks you in a specific action (exluding blocks because im talking about evade like effects).
The mobility of mirage might be higher, but the in combat damage avoidance is worse compared to core mesmer. Which of both is more important do you think?
Mesmer has tons of ways of avoiding damage. If you are refering to dodging (an action which the entire game and every class is balanced and designed around the way it is implemented normaly) then no, mirage does not provide an upgrade, this was disscussed often enough in this thread. The reasons why it’s worse as mirage were given and not yet refuted so simply stating “it’s better” provides no value to the disscussion.
What does mirage lose in dmg avoidance compaired to core memser?
Repositioning.
How so? I can move just fine when i would dodge with mirage. Maybe you experienced a bug or something.
Superspeed only affects walking forward. It does not affect sidestepping, or backpedaling.
Axes of Symmetry, Illusionary Ambush, and Mirage Advance don’t give you control over where you end.
I suppose they could change the functionality of superspeed to afect all directions. As for axes of symetry they are still a movement tool alot of thinks dont really give you alot of freedom outside of the direction u are casting them.
They claim they have made changes to elite specs but won’t be telling people till the expansion is released and you are playing it. I still wouldn’t expect any significant mirage changes though.
Very anti consumer to get you to buy a product without telling you whats in it.
Nobody told you to buy any product. As for that statement is there a link? Im genually curious.
This seems like an extremely inane thing to me. The mirage isn’t a staff tempest. It doesn’t have long channels that get interrupted by having to dodge constantly.
I mean I get what they were going for:
- Extra access to dodges, slippery, difficult to hit.
- Gain (some) extra damage out of dodging due to the ambush skills.
- In return (as a balancing measure), lose movement on dodge.
That seems to be the on-paper design. It fails, on all accounts:
1. There isn’t much access to dodge. If at least all uses of deception skills places 1-2 mirrors, that’d be something. Or shattering phantasms did, by default.
2. Other than scepter, I wish Ambush didn’t overwrite the #1 button because frankly I’d rather AA. It’s not worth the tiny gain. Remove Infinite Horizon and make the skills deal 4x-5x the output of an AA, so it’s at least some damage gain.
3. This is fine, if the other two things are fixed.But, as always, I’d go for a minimal fix:
- Mirrors now last 12 seconds.
- Illusionary Ambush spawns a mirror where you started.
- Same for Mirage Advance.
- Same for Jaunt, which does it every charge.
- Sand Through Glass leaves a second mirror halfway through the dodge distance.
That at least gives us some decent access to mirrors.
Theres no need for really long durr on mirrors if all the utils that provide mirrors namely the back dodge the aoe thingy and the heal all had a second skill that shadowsteps you to that mirror. And maybe an f5 that teleports you to mirrors left by your phantasms.
Actually, after the adrenaline change last patch, core war is par with berserker war IMO. Which is great.
Personally I think core guard is better than DH.
Both for spvp at best, please note the game mode you are making statements about since the usuall game mode on the non pvp forum is pve.
As far as pve, that statement is so far from the truth it hurts.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.
And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.
Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla
1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.
2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.
Still waiting for an answer to this.
Sorry, thought I had replied to this.
1) I fully agree with you if elite specs are supposed to be better than core, Mirage has low numbers, I’m not arguing with that, I just assumed the numbers would be buffed.
2) I disagree that Mirage is worse at dodging and attacking, since it literally does that better with the new dodge mechanic on top of what mes already has. will say that it’s got worse mobility than Mesmer though.
1) The mechanics are fundementally broken. Unless they buff the numbers up so Mirage axe is some auto attacking beast and you ignore most of what the elite spec offers but even then you will just end up a worse DD.
2) It adds no new ways to play. Mesmer provides ways to avoid damage while still attacking and then has dodges for when you need to move away from where you are. Mirage takes those dodges away.
The mobility of mirage is higher lmao. Also mesmer has 2 ways to avoid dmg and 1 of them forces you do use a specific skill which locks you in a specific action (exluding blocks because im talking about evade like effects).
The mobility of mirage might be higher, but the in combat damage avoidance is worse compared to core mesmer. Which of both is more important do you think?
Mesmer has tons of ways of avoiding damage. If you are refering to dodging (an action which the entire game and every class is balanced and designed around the way it is implemented normaly) then no, mirage does not provide an upgrade, this was disscussed often enough in this thread. The reasons why it’s worse as mirage were given and not yet refuted so simply stating “it’s better” provides no value to the disscussion.
What does mirage lose in dmg avoidance compaired to core memser?
Repositioning.
How so? I can move just fine when i would dodge with mirage. Maybe you experienced a bug or something.
So its either 1 or the other. Cant we get a midle ground?
I’ve just never encountered a situation where it would be wildly beneficial to switch targets before the target is dead. You usually attack things until they are dead.
So you are going to switch targets and stop dpsing the boss… to go kill some adds…..
The adds will die quickly, possibly before your axe 3 is finished cooling down….
Then your illusions die and you have to resummon them back to the boss……
….
So it would have been better to just leave your illusions dpsing the boss while you go take care of adds by yourself.
I mean I grant that it could be useful sometimes but like I said these things are highly situational. We are talking about 1 or 2 raid bosses. There’s tons of other content in the game. So we have an ability that is super situational that might shine during about 1% of the game…. Forgive me if I’m not jumping for joy lol…
Boss 1 and 2 in nightmare fractal. Boss 2 and 3 in shattered observatory. Samarog the phase adds and deimos the prides. Boss 1 in fractal chaos etc.
One of my biggest pet peeves in any pvp game is where you are punished for attacking. I’ve never liked it all, not one bit. I’m all for skill based pvp and coordinated efforts to take people down but…. yah I’ve never liked it when someone bubbles up and you literally have to go ‘wait it out’ and not attack.
Overwatch has that stupid mechanic with Zarya where she bubbles herself and her allies, and you’re punished for attacking during that time. Firstly they take no damage, and secondly it boosts her damage.
SWTOR has bubble reflects on Mercenaries that damage you every time you attack them.
This game… has retaliation.
So I’m like OK great, fine, whatever. But I’ve killed myself from 13k health to 0 in under 3 seconds just from someone having retaliation. Isn’t that a bit much? Isn’t that a bit over the top?
Shouldn’t we put a cap on how much damage retaliation can return? Say something like max 1k damage returned per 1 second duration? So if retaliation has a 5 second duration and returns 5k damage, the buff wears off. Something to that effect.
I dunno I feel it’s broken enough to post about it, am I the only one feeling this way?
Yes. All this games have mechanics which promote reactive combat.
I disagree with the basic premise. Players don’t use full glass builds in organized PvE because it’s safer. They do it because PvE doesn’t force them to do otherwise the way PvP/WvW scenarios typically do. If you can have a healer cover your group in full glass and not wipe, it’s a no-brainer to do so. To do otherwise simply makes the fight take longer for no benefit.
If you’re talking solo open world, I still disagree. You’re telling me that having a bunch of extra armor, healing, and/or health actually makes it harder for you to survive? I can think of very few scenarios where this is true.
It’s one thing to say that full glass is adequate for survival and preferred for skilled players, and even that defensive stats are “useless” in that sense. I mean if you’re comfortable in full glass, then why wouldn’t you use it? It’s faster! But that is not the same thing as claiming that you are literally less likely to die in full glass than defensive gear.
It sounds to me like you have too little experience with defensive stats. Not that I blame you. It also sounds like you have little reason to waste your time with them. But as the basis for this argument, I don’t think your claims hold water at all.
In no mmo will you see ppl that are supposed to be dmg dealers run semi tanky stuff since theres a healer and someone to tank/ control the mobs.
Meanwhile healing condicleanse etc have become staples of the game since hot. Sure u dont really run full vit toughtness but in 1v1 it would be just boring to and in 50vs50 healing power and utility from the groups makes up for that. In pve id like some encounters to require actual tanking tho.
Also this change would kinda make ppl that run tanky build mini dd’s. I can already see full tank warriors with the endurance on might trait and dmg on dodge trait and i dont like the idea of playing against that.
(edited by zealex.9410)
I’m with Refia that “punished” is subjective.
But I think we all agree that the “punishment” doesn’t fit the crime?
40% drop isn’t exactly a fair trade for the first two shatters. Although, I do agree with the “Panic Button” from distortion, and to a lesser degree break bar damage from diversion should come at a cost.
But much like warrior getting max adrenaline and sitting there, that is the exact situation we have now.
I agree that if you want to spec for shatters you should be able to, but making shatters viable PvE is going to be hard, and I doubt A-net would rework them to do it.
Unless we either passively gain illusions at little to no cost like thief ini, or like hitting/getting hit like warrior, or perhhaps spend them a lot slower as a resource like: one illusion = full shatter effect. Which as Esplen mentioned could be added through a shatter based trait. It is doubtful a power based buff to mind wrack, or cry of confusion will ever be worth while compared to phantasms…
(Unless maybe you give them enough baseline utility or functionality so the cost is going into something other than damage, which is why distortion doesn’t feel as bad in PvE.)So assuming we are staying phantasm regardless, I don’t think it’s reasonable to tell us to never use our F skills, and half our weapon skills, and it be called “fine”.
In addition, even if you can argue that other classes are (subjectively) punished for using their class mechanic, none are punished for using their weapons skills. Which OP’s suggestion would fix.
The idea that you can Illusionary leap for whatever reason, or illusionary riposte, lose 25 stacks, then re-summon, to then have to re-ramp the one phantasm again is pretty unacceptable to me. Losing the phantasm until you have to resummon it should be enough “punishment” for that action, and is a “punishment” on par with what everyone else has to give up for an action.
^ this pretty much. This might “band aid” the problem but its ultimately fixes it for 1 build.
I honestly think there should be a trait, maybe even a minor trait that removes movement impairing conditions when you dodge (ie cripple/chill/immobilise), like Daredevil’s Unhindered Combatant trait does.
It would fit thematically too.
It would fit thematically. It would also be something nice, so we won’t get that.
Its fine if thief, the class that already had the highest mobility, gets something like that according to most players. But they wouldn’t hesitate to call for nerfs if mesmers got something even half as strong on our dodge.
If you think ppl are fine with dd then you dont play this game.
I honestly think there should be a trait, maybe even a minor trait that removes movement impairing conditions when you dodge (ie cripple/chill/immobilise), like Daredevil’s Unhindered Combatant trait does.
It would fit thematically too.
The supper speed trait could give resistance for the durr of the mirage cloak.
Actually, after the adrenaline change last patch, core war is par with berserker war IMO. Which is great.
Personally I think core guard is better than DH.
Both for spvp at best, please note the game mode you are making statements about since the usuall game mode on the non pvp forum is pve.
As far as pve, that statement is so far from the truth it hurts.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.
And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.
Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla
1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.
2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.
Still waiting for an answer to this.
Sorry, thought I had replied to this.
1) I fully agree with you if elite specs are supposed to be better than core, Mirage has low numbers, I’m not arguing with that, I just assumed the numbers would be buffed.
2) I disagree that Mirage is worse at dodging and attacking, since it literally does that better with the new dodge mechanic on top of what mes already has. will say that it’s got worse mobility than Mesmer though.
1) The mechanics are fundementally broken. Unless they buff the numbers up so Mirage axe is some auto attacking beast and you ignore most of what the elite spec offers but even then you will just end up a worse DD.
2) It adds no new ways to play. Mesmer provides ways to avoid damage while still attacking and then has dodges for when you need to move away from where you are. Mirage takes those dodges away.
The mobility of mirage is higher lmao. Also mesmer has 2 ways to avoid dmg and 1 of them forces you do use a specific skill which locks you in a specific action (exluding blocks because im talking about evade like effects).
The mobility of mirage might be higher, but the in combat damage avoidance is worse compared to core mesmer. Which of both is more important do you think?
Mesmer has tons of ways of avoiding damage. If you are refering to dodging (an action which the entire game and every class is balanced and designed around the way it is implemented normaly) then no, mirage does not provide an upgrade, this was disscussed often enough in this thread. The reasons why it’s worse as mirage were given and not yet refuted so simply stating “it’s better” provides no value to the disscussion.
What does mirage lose in dmg avoidance compaired to core memser?
This change woudla llow for the use of shatters and it would prob make a dps chrono viable as well so yeah the dps will go up by a small bit because of the shatter dmg so what?
e-specs were SUPPOSED to add something new, mesmer being bound to a target is so obnoxious to deal with
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Axes_of_Symmetry
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_AmbushThe usefulness of this is going to be highly situational. For mobs that die quickly you are going to be on cooldown half the time you need to switch your illusions, and mobs that die slowly (like a boss) you probably don’t want to switch your illusions because its better to keep them dpsing the boss. I think people are really overselling mirage because they read a skill description and think it sounds great. Things are a lot different when you actually get into combat and deal with the full breadth of game mechanics.
Mobs that die quickly you can focus 4 and cleave with phantasms as well u dont needretargeting.
Have you tested condi mirage dps doe??
In what way?
In an actual isntanced pve way where you have set buffs and a set rotation.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.
And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.
Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla
1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.
2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.
Still waiting for an answer to this.
Sorry, thought I had replied to this.
1) I fully agree with you if elite specs are supposed to be better than core, Mirage has low numbers, I’m not arguing with that, I just assumed the numbers would be buffed.
2) I disagree that Mirage is worse at dodging and attacking, since it literally does that better with the new dodge mechanic on top of what mes already has. will say that it’s got worse mobility than Mesmer though.
1) The mechanics are fundementally broken. Unless they buff the numbers up so Mirage axe is some auto attacking beast and you ignore most of what the elite spec offers but even then you will just end up a worse DD.
2) It adds no new ways to play. Mesmer provides ways to avoid damage while still attacking and then has dodges for when you need to move away from where you are. Mirage takes those dodges away.
The mobility of mirage is higher lmao. Also mesmer has 2 ways to avoid dmg and 1 of them forces you do use a specific skill which locks you in a specific action (exluding blocks because im talking about evade like effects).
Tempest was supposed to be a support spec but it failed pretty horribly, so they upped the damage and it became a straight upgrade to damage while also giving more supportive options. :/
I dont recal them buffing its dmg. Also its not a bad support hell its pretty great as a support it just doesnt give a 10% dmg buff. And know they ruined it dmg capabilities (well ruined, the thing is still top dps on larg hitboxes) and now its seen more clearly as a support
Idk man s2 had some neat encounters glint lair being one of the best instances iv seen in this game.
the glider didnt look like the backpack before nor does it look like it now
It really is. /sarcasm
https://gfycat.com/ImmediateFrigidAustraliansilkyterrier
(caution, not the most pleasing view for the eye imo as always)
(edited by zealex.9410)
What?
The part he forgot to include was: If you bring a Mesmer into your raid group.
If you have a Mesmer, you’re going to be Chrono 8/10 times. The other 2 times you’re DPS. But, even if you ARE DPS, you still get more damage being a Power Mesmer than a Condi Mes/Mir.
Have you tested condi mirage dps doe??
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Again why would a group ive up a chrono for a mirage? They are 2 diff things. Also im seeing these claims that mirage is trash in pve. Again, did you test it in raids or fractals?
Yes, two different things, like a PS warrior and condi warrior. And the reason people allow a warrior to go condi DPS and not PS is because the alternative does enough damage to merit a raid slot.
Mirage does not. It doesn’t take raid testing to know a spec’s numbers. All you needed is a golem to know the potential output. And mirage’s output is just bad.
What?
Forgot the part where i say it should either be nerfed or have its rotation made more engaging and interesting to reflect those numbers. In truth im glad mesmer has a power dps build its jsut that that one is such a joke and a meme compaired to every other dps build in the game that in its current form doesnt deserve the numbers.
I never abandoned it i got an answer from someone in the formus which satisfied me for that time.
As for the distort arguement. Ye mirage still brings distrot and prob has some neat numbers as well. How exactly mirage isnt haping up to be a viable if not great dps exactly?
Calling guard a aa spec you prob never played it in pve, poor you. Since memser was trash at anything else it ended up being the support spec so yeah where was i wrong?
I’d be game for a T5 (cm only), even had a proposed method for how it would work in a previous post.
In fact even if they don’t want to do t5 something they could look back on and adapt is the “Book” system from Guild Wars and incorporate that into fractals. Scaling rewards based on the number of unique fractals completed.
Imo t5 isnt needed cm cover this well imo. If your suggestion included a way to bypass ar gates then the current format looks fine honestly. If you suggestion included a higher ar gate id prefer not tiying dificulty behind ar gates and rather have it tied to skill.
The book system sounds kinda neat tho.
No. I’m far to lazy to dig out the post about t5’s.
Essentially nothing changes as far as max AR. Just instead of having a “CM” we have 25 Hard mode fractals (Current CM’s) as t5. They like raids reset weekly and reward you for scaling through them I.E Flvl 101-125. Each one only becomes unlocked upon successful completion of the previous one (no skipping) and they have more unique and potentially more lethal instabilities to add to the challenge.
Ugh idk about weekly lock out. I kinda like the daily lockout on the current ones it gives me more thing do do in game. Also not sure who would ppl take the instabilities i dont ahte them but id prefer the ecounter itself having more mechanics.
Id like if the game kicked you faster in case you afk with it not kicking you in case you contest a point of fight someone.
I’d be game for a T5 (cm only), even had a proposed method for how it would work in a previous post.
In fact even if they don’t want to do t5 something they could look back on and adapt is the “Book” system from Guild Wars and incorporate that into fractals. Scaling rewards based on the number of unique fractals completed.
Imo t5 isnt needed cm cover this well imo. If your suggestion included a way to bypass ar gates then the current format looks fine honestly. If you suggestion included a higher ar gate id prefer not tiying dificulty behind ar gates and rather have it tied to skill.
The book system sounds kinda neat tho.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.
Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.
Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.
Meanwhile every “good mesmer” treats the class like its barely functioning and overly up. Next time before you go say im trolling ppl do read the post use yr brain and then a make an arguement against it.
Every “good mesmer” is dealing with the classes issues, hasn’t been harping about nerfs for chronomancer or power mesmer buffs after august 8 always humming the same song about how Mirage is going to fix everything.
When was the last time you spent some time analysing new and old skills or actually played the class or gave an analysis besides “you are all wrong, I am right”? Exactly, never.
The good thing though is, everyone can actually look up your posting history and see for themselves just how terrible you are at balance ideas or mesmer in general.
I never said anything along the lines of “mirage will fix mesmer”. Or nerf power mesmer.
Iv spend quite some time discussing mesmer changes with ppl so i have yeah. As for y terrible suggestions ye they’re there feel free to take look might help you give better feedback instead of blowing the same “mirage is useless” horn.
Like this one anet did for hot.
Do you think the devs plan on making on? I personally really like it and loved the visuals so id love to see one for pof with balthazar and kralk.
Are you sure you cannot play ep 6? Is it available in your hero panel’s story journal to activate? Otherwise you can try teleport to a friend who’s on the map… it won’t work for eps you need to buy, but unlocked eps should work.
I double checked, and you’re right I can activate Ep6.
Is it 200 gems for each Ep or 200 for all of LS3?
This is very sad system for new players. Anet should be ashamed of this obvious milking of players. If you have paid for HoT, it should include the whole storyline up until the next expansion.
Every company should be ashamed of themselves for charging money for products they spent money to produce. They should just chain their employees to their desks and stop paying them.
I mean, you refuse to collect a paycheck for your work right?
The funny thing is that ANet did offer you the chapters free of monetary charge. You turned them down.
LS is part of the expansion which is already paid for. Do you pay for your groceries and then pay for them again?
No I thought not…
The expac is merely the wall behind the lw episodes if you played during tht time then you unlock them for free as you did with ep 6. Res youc an purchase for the very low price of 200 gems in case you missed them.
Are they in the table?
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.
Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.
Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.
Meanwhile every “good mesmer” treats the class like its barely functioning and overly up. Next time before you go say im trolling ppl do read the post use yr brain and then a make an arguement against it.
They will have world bosses in this new extension: During the trailer, don’t remember which one it was, you see a fight against Balthazar with a king of two gigantic canons spliting fire, don’t know if it’s an meta event or a real World Boss. But if they take the same model as HoT, one of the map have a meta event like Tarir and another a gigantic fight like mordremoth head fight.
They mentioned bosses. Might as well talkinga bout the bounty bosses. I for one wonan see a junundu and a hydra boss at least. And a margonite boss would be neat.
Disable the effect means it becomes an ascended trinket. The aura makes it legendary.
The aura should change per class that wears it, as now its clearly a mesmer only trinket
Ur choice really if you want to see that. I would personally like 2-4 check boxes. Hide infusions, hide legendary effects. 1 for pc and 1 for everyone else
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Again why would a group ive up a chrono for a mirage? They are 2 diff things. Also im seeing these claims that mirage is trash in pve. Again, did you test it in raids or fractals?
(edited by zealex.9410)
If you read my initial comment and understood it, you would see I understood your proposal clearly. The stacks are moved to the Mesmer instead of the Phantasms and the effect affects the Mesmer and the Phantasms. That’s why I said specifically it would also even help out Chrono since Chronophantasma would work well with this new PF.
I said it’s really OP since no other class has a 25% overall damage buff. I guess Tempest Defense and most execution trait has a 20% damage buff (Think Close to Death and similar traits) but those are conditional and can never have 100% upkeep even in PvE. Lowering it to 15% would still make it a DPS buff over the old PF and it would still shift the power from Phantasms to the Mesmer. Just saying no other trait has 100% uptime with a large modifier as 25%.
Edit: Rereading your initial post. It’s quite unclear whether the effect affects the Mesmer or not. Then I read your last comment, yeah you make it clearer that you only want the effect on Mesmer but it doesn’t affect them. Sorry about that.
I think ori means that instead of the pantasm attacks building the stacks instead you do an your shatters so a new phantasm wont have to aa and w8 for how long to start doing dmg. You dont get a dmg buff the dmg is the same its just that now you dont lose as much if you shatter and new pantasms arent a dps loss.
I think you are completely missing whats he/she is suggesting.
Gives us a reason to shatter and its a personal buff we gotta upkeep. Me likes it. The only downside i see is what if you cant relly go hit the boss or w/e to build up those stacks will the phantasms hit like a wet noodle or both phtansms and you can build them?
(edited by zealex.9410)
I see everyone complaining about the new dodge, I honestly don’t think that this is the problem with Mirage, you get an awesome elite that makes up for the leap, the problem lies in other places like the lack of movement speed, a fairly mediocore new weapon with messy animations/mechanics (why the kitten is it an Axe to begin with?) and Infinite Horizon being close to useless unless you play condi or use sword for the daze.
Because its a massive problem with the spec. Everything else about it is terrible too but the new mechanic is just horrendous.
Look at Scourge it takes Necro’s defensive focused class mechanic and completely changes it into an offensive focused, area control attacks with lots of versatility, giving them things they have been asking for.
Look at Soulbeast, allows them to merge with their class mechanic providing an insane amount of versatility, allowing them to take direct control of certain pet attacks and allowing them to camp the mode for situations where having pets/minions/illusions is useless or an actual detriment, all things they have been asking for.
Look at Mirage, our new mechanic is our dodge, the foundation of the entire combat system, is worse. Thats it. No new or changes to F abilities, no changes to phantasms or how they fight against shatters (oh wait now its worth keeping clones up as well so the whole class mechanic is fighting against itself even more), nothing for situations where illusions are worthless and no new ways to play. Not a single thing we have been asking for.
Meanwhile a scourge will still need an ele to be viable because you can be kited by everything.