Guild Wars 2

I can’t understand player that say that they want a match where a team is far better than other…really, is impossible to understand.

lady goth….you have my mmr more or less, you are done

here the example of 8 team the player base have 2 kind of skill good and bad.
the s2 matchmaking is fair and don’t voluntary match winner vs looser (i hope is fair but don’t know this).
after first match team with 3 good beat team with 2 good.
now winner pool have more good than loser, and for speed up matchmaking probably the first 2 team ready are 1 from loser pool and 1 from winner and so on.
so after 7 match 4 team are outside the range of other 4, and need to face.
here next match choose next mmr hell for these team.
in this way you have a good player that have lost all the matches, on the bottom of the ladder, and a bad player at top of the ladder that have win all the matches.

ok gw2 is little more complex with more player that don’t play the same number of matches and have a wide range of personal skill…but more or less you can be in this hell or you can be in the other side.

it think is easy to prove….send me the shines.
you can if in your pip range you have more team with less than you mmr then team above your mmr.
in this scenario you can go up even if you are bad.(this scenario is the situation after first match of the season, if you win you go up, till the match that you face a team of all go up player, there you test your mmr, if you win again up, if you lose possible hell)
in a 50/50 scenario, if you are better then other you win 8/15 (the case that you match a team in your mmr).
I don’t have any math on how far you can carry a team, so maybe you can win 10/15 or more.
ex.
Team A you 75% other 5% vs Team B 10%, you can win? maybe.
so in a 50/50 scenario yes, you can go up, slowly but yes.

the problem that this scenario is simply an utopia, you need to remove all pip safe spot, and run a season for an year or more, and have a lot of player.
other thin,g you basically have 1 fair match over 15 (less but make it simple), in that match is tested your mmr all the other match are unusefull, only a time loss.
so is quite obvious that s2 system is totally broken.

yes mathematically in s2 a single loss can put you in mmr hell.

my last 6 match was all 500-xx….how can single player skill have a role in this match?
still the same… you can go afk after 2 min and the game will have the same result.

not happy at all with s2, is math broken MM.
in this season the league don’t represent the skill at all….i get ruby without play a real single match(maybe 3 or 4).I’m quite bored.
there are too few match where your skill can change the outcome, you can go afk and still win 500-100.
maybe they can add this, if your team is mmr high and win gain nothing, if lose, lose a division.
the opposite for low mmr.
if low beat high the mmr is swapped.

btw, will be a nice to know this stat, how many time low mmr team have win?

lingering light and grace of land are triggered by water spirit? and by spirit of nature?

pet that heal trigger them?

thank you.

i hate ele (a lot) and scrapper (a bit).

I think build need more customization (stat and weapon skill, having 2 choice for slot is an idea..)than what we have actually.

and at least 3 viable role for profession.
i really like the hard counter meta, ex. in this meta we have a lot of necro and dh, i want at least 2 class that can totally shutdown/destroy them.
in gw1 i have lot of fun creating build that can totally destroy one kind of gameplay…yes my build will be destroyed by all other but…was still fun.

if you check combat report you will see that power damage usually is 3x cond damage.
this game have quite fast combat, the best way to win a fight is the burst damage, even a necro need the shroud to end a fight, is hard to kill only with conditions.

with MM of season 1 all the palyer in premade have the mmr of the best player of team (after the fix at duoq with amber), so they face a team that have avarage of best player of premade.

all player of soloq team are better then player of premade, so they can go over the comunication/teamcomp gap.

I don’t think you need a phd for understand that this system cannot works

10 player, you need to know who is the best in a 5vs5 match adjusting mmr and having fun
match 1 —>A win.
match 2 —> 3 1-0 player and 2 0-1 vs 2 (1-0) & 3(0-1) : A win
match 3 —> mix again trying to have the same number of win/lose in every team.

who have the best record (mmr) at the end is the winner.

glicko2 in this particular case is not so important if the system can menage to have perfect 50/50 match you can base all on w/l ratio.

glicko2 is usefull in full team match where the system cannot put them to 50/50, so here you need to weight the mmr outcome based on pre-match supposed chance.

This system works because mmr is inaccurate…with accurate mmr you Can really don’t play the game.
All the matches are large predictable.
And second…this system cannot correct the MMR.so if your MMR is inaccurate at the start now is more inaccurate.

Aereniel.7356:

As for the complaint regarding season one, the gist of the criticism is that season one was not a ladder in any sense of the word. There was no skill progression and tiers did not represent player skill in any way. You played with and against your own rating in every bracket, and climbing was simply a matter of spamming games. We had legends with 1200 MMR and legends with 3000 MMR. Season one was just a PvP reward track, nothing more. Season two features only marginal improvement, by the way, but that’s a topic for another thread.

in a system that reward points for victory there is no way to limit this, every player that have 51% win rate can have more points of 99% winrate player. so in the s2 we will have the same,probably is more easy than s1.
so the result is the same. but at least matches of s1 are fun and fair.

Works even if the balance is not correctly set…you need to mix the coins every time.is the only logical way to know all relative weights.

Nope you Can have an heavy One in light divison.

there are really few way to remove grind and have a real skill ladder system.
for premade probably is a knock out system, you need some iterations at the end you will have the best team.
for solo q, or set a cap for daily match (10? 20?) dunno.
or divide the pip gain/ match played.(basically winrate)
but for this you need a total random MM, so every one is consider equal.
so winrate in total random MM with only soloq will give you the best player.
probably not the best matches, but far better than these in S2.
and for this you need a low cap of match played, at least 300 in a season?

is totally random.

The only conclusion of this is system is : team A is better than B.really? Nice to know.

500-200 a close skill team?
not really a team have made very bad decision, skill is not 1 vs 1, skill is understand what’s going on.
let out the lord, ok in foefire can end 500-350 and it is close, sometime.
but
500-250 means that you hold 2 point and enemy 1 for all the match. is a bloody bath.
500-300 probably they hold 2 point for 1 minute…

Sunshine.5014:

Togo.7094:

Sunshine.5014:

Pure Heart.1456:

Very dissatisfied with PvP, particularly this season 2.

Nobody likes to to lose, and it’s the way in which one loses that makes it most unpleasant;
…

yes, Scrapper/Reaper/Rev is a bit overtuned, but overall I like S2 a lot better because there is no more force 50% win rate.

Also, people need to understand that this is a competitive game mode. There will be winners, and there will be losers. If you don’t want to lose, you gotta play better. No one can change that except you.

there is nothing competitive about the season. 95% of matches are decided before the clock even counts down. and yes the season appears to working fine for you. grats on being on the + side of coin.

Oh, so what do you think we should do to make it fair? Remember, 10 players in the game, 5 win, 5 lose. Now make it so that no one complain?

10 player i have no idea of their skill, let suppose unknow mmr or all average.

S2 system.
team A beat team B.
now system put them again in the same team.
probably te result will be the same. ten times.
10-0, 9-1,8-2? maybe 5-5 if luckily they are all really average. (but 5-5 is the best result that this system can achieve).
let’ say probably 10-0 maybe 9-1.
now who is the best player?
dunno.

S1 system.
A beat B
mix A-B player 3 winner 2 loser vs 2 winner 3 loser.
and again mantain team A avarage mmr = team B avarage mmr.
5-5 is the expected result.
who is the best player?
who win more.

Rome.3192:

vulneraria.4865:

@Rome
3 on 10 are not mostly….

6/10.

maybe 500-380…
500-320 is not close game, in season 1 this was ‘wow that was easy’…
is near 40% difference between teams, is huge.is a 5 vs 3.
less than 20% is a close match for me.

@Rome
3 on 10 are not mostly….

s1 system with balanced reward +3+2+1 and -1-2-3 is ok.average cannot be able to pass ruby.
55% player need 600 matches to diamond
60% player need 300 matches to diamond.

that for legendary back, and for self epen.

for the teams (that is the real spvp), every guild have his mmr, the guild with best mmr at the end win prizes and achiev.
a player can play only for a guild in a season.

no.
you are only rewarded if you win.

ZilentNight.5089:

IMO, the current pip system is actually quite fair, its designed in the manner if you are a good player then you will get to legendary faster than others.

If you are a bad player you can still reach legendary but will simply take a LOT more time.

The example you mentioned that losing 15 in a row and then winning 9 in a row makes absolutely no sense whatsoever…
If a player lost 15 in a row chances are they are not going to win 9 in a row, very unrealistic…
Now lets say for the sake of argument by some magic they do win 9 in a row, they end up with 2 pips more, how much time did this player had to spend?

24 games – 3 min avg queue time + 10 min avg game = 5.2 hours….
Whereas a skilled player can play 26 mins and achieve the same result, to me that is a system working just fine.
If I was a bad player and I spent 5-6 hours in a game I would hope for some progress even if it meant just 2 pips, not have negative pips because that would drive me to simply quit…

What is however flawed is the matchmaking system which still pairs you up against full premade teams when you are solo-queing…

in season 1 you end up with -6 pips (if matches are 50/50).
and in this season you don’t have really to play, you can go afk for a shower, a beer with friends, and so on… and you have 2 pips.
you need to press some key for not been disconnected by the game and start new matches…

Burn.5401:

vulneraria.4865:

snip

Stop posting any time, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Last season was terrible, because the system was prioritizing MMR and not divisions/tiers which led to people being all over the place. Legendary div players facing ambers, decent players having a way harder time to climb, while bad players abused their way to the top. The current system needs a bit of time, but in a couple of weeks every division and tier should have it’s own “playerbase” so to speak. You’re not entitled to climb/get carried to division 6, you play on the level where you belong. Literally every MMR argument I’ve read so far is beyond flawed. A really obvious example I can give you is Leeto, he’s Diamond on a free to play account which by theory shouldn’t have over the top MMR. You increase your MMR by beating worse opponents, if you can’t beat bad players then don’t expect to get matched with good ones to carry you.

so you are ok that on 10 player 5 best (teorically by mmr) are in one team and the other in team b, and face 100 times in a 100-0 result?
that is the way to say all 5 in team a are better then the player in team b?

is like having 10 bags put the 5 that I think that weight more on one side and the other on the other side of two pan balance.
than you see that is true, they weight more, and you go on with the same 100 times.(more or less like mm actually works)
and finally you say every single bag in top five weight more that every one in second side. and… you are right is exactly what you have stated starting this experiment!

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

so you don’t read…

Oh, I read what you wrote. I just didn’t agree with your conclusion on the difference between season 1 and season 2, so I put forth my own opinion. But I guess you “don’t read…”

vulneraria.4865:

and no, in s1 best and worst player are not in the same place. maybe in the same team but not in the same place.

I see your English skills are lacking. It was a hypothetical scenario used to illustrate a point. In this scenario, if the worst player and the best player in the world both made it to the exact same pip, they’d still never face each other due to differences in their matchmaking rating. This is fact, so I don’t really know what you’re babbling about.

sorry for my english.
yes they could face, because the rule say that the average mmr of teams must be the same, not that all the mmr of the players of the team must be the same.

and yes, if the worst player play his best match, and the best no, the best could lose.
so you have to play well for going up.

and next, the worst play a nice match, his mmr go up the system suppose he is going better, so he get a little worst team, if he win again his mmr go up.
this is how a good system work, the match played change the mmr, in this scenario mmr is accurate. skill change the mmr.
in s2 scenario the mmr change the match played! in this scenario your own mmr change your mmr.

so you don’t read…
and no, in s1 best and worst player are not in the same place. maybe in the same team but not in the same place.

pakkazull
s1 system all the match are 50/50…you play well you can win.
s1 rewards unbalanced, you gain pips more you play.

s2 system all the match are unbalanced, on slot machines you can roll win/lose (when the system is settled is suppose to be 50/50 you will have 7 pips over you or 7 pips under)
s2 rewards unbalanced, you gain more pips more you play.

difference? at least you need to play your matches in s1.

in season 1 with balanced reward you know how many games avarage bob needs to go diamond from ruby?
2^30 so basically never.

these is what pro player want…and not you cannot be grouped with more then less of 7 pips from you.(or over if some one exist…)

finally someone have seen this….
yes a lot of ppl will be diamond even don’t playing any matches.
as I say S1 matchmaking was far far better.

better give automatically oe point to higher mmr team and remove from the other.
80% of the matches are non sense.

yes, most of the games you can go afk.

sry about this, is the first in google search about this problem.

is that fixed?
thx

dominik.9721:

Push far and kill backpaddeling dragonhunters 3v1. It was at least what I did in Amber/Emerald on the first day.
99% of the good players and even average players are already out of Amber/Emerald and are playing in diamond / ruby. That means that you face even more bad players in the first two divisions than you did at the first two days.
So imo those excuses and complains about the matchmaking don’t work anymore. You are playing with bad players against bad players. It’s up to you guys to make the difference.

will never works because even if both team are bad, the worst player of team A is better then best player of team B.
so if you are in B and are even better then all team A players you are dead.

the system don’t work now, and in the future.

the problem is that the preseason don’t fix the no fair matches…even top 20 ppl let name them team A-B-C-D where A have 1-5 B 6-10 and so on…
A beat B till A is far than 7 pips, so A queue time = inf.
now B is down to face C and win till can reach again A, and lose again..
C can now face D and go up to face B.
all end when all the team are at 7+ pips distance…
all the matches end 500-200 more or less.

in my opinion system is not broken because you win all the matches or you lose them, is broken because you can go afk and you still have the same result…on 50 matches i have played 5 close match over 500-400, all the others was a bloody bath, in 20 seconds you know that you have win, and if bad player are with you, you can even know before match start.
i’m ok saying this point is far beyond my ability, i sit there in ruby, but not that i win 500-xx till there and then lose xx-500 after.
basically this sytem use the player mmr to force player in that range, your mmr have far more weight then your skill.
this season is: start the season, look at mmr, give prize, season end.

Put the best player at MMR 1. With this system he will stay at MMR 1 forever..so no with this system MMR not equal skill.

This system don’t works even after a year…even for the top 10 player…it’s math.

I have tested yesterday win 2 of 5 match afk. So you need only to be in winning team..that is supposed do be a 50-50

In a month a player can reach legendary staying afk.
All is rolled during matchmaking.playing match don’t really have any sense.

So actually you can go afk and win a match 500-xx
When the ladder will be settle (in a month? Dunno) ideally there will be 10 players of the same skill for every pip.
Now the probability that your team face the other of the same pip is like 1/15. Let say 0.
All the other Match are easy afk win or lose.
For simplicity we take subpar Bob in first pip of ruby where all will stop due no safe pip level.
He is forced to afk 50/50.he is quite noob he cannot go up or down. first tier of ruby is his place.
But!!!
You gain 1 every 3 lose or 3 win…so every 16 random afk matches he gain 2 pips.
During an afk night Bob will be diamond.

I have done 5 matches afk ( not really I run for the map not capping or using skill)
Lost 3 win 2.
All the matches 500-xx.
With this system player skill is fundamental.

that all the member of your team have your mmr (more or less).

what that means? that esl player carried you to legendary in s1?
in s2 you are in team with player with your mmr.
maybe in s2 esl player have carried that thief…dunno.

probably you have the same mmr of that one…

more or less this :

anet have a theory (mmr) and have build an experiment (system matchmaking) that force the reality to confirm his theory.
instead you need an experiment that confirm or adjust your initial theory.

Erzian.5218:

According to the season 2 announcement, matchmsking is primarily based on pips not mmr apart from that, if the amount of players available at a certain time is so low at you have the same players over and over again that is not an issue of matchmaking but in that case i’d rather have teams in which the players are of equal skill instead of forcing ‘balanced’ teams and a 50:50 win/lose chance for both teams, because that is exactly what we had last season and is exactly what made the last season a bad joke. In a league system that is intended to represent player skill, it is fundamentally wrong to put the best players on a team with the worst ones that are currently available in order to obtain a 50:50 win/loss ratio. If there are only 10 players available, then the best 5 of them should be put into a team and win to get to a higher division. I know, that sounds arrogant (and frustrating for the bad players), but it is necesarry if you want leagues to represent player skill.

totally wrong sorry….
i have 10 player i put the top 5 in one team the other in second team, they play 100 times, score 100-0.
even if one or two of the second team have improved or have thinked a better build. (or simply in last game of season 1 they have tested some wrong build and they have decreased personal mmr)they are dead.
if i mix the team then i can say player 1 win 60%
player 2 win 56%
player 3 win 55%
and so on.

the system is working, is very bad system but is working, more you lose more bad player you have in team.