Guild Wars 2

Nothing default except forward and backward

1 = Elite
2 = Weapon Skill 3
3 = Utility Skill 2
4 = Utility Skill 3
Q = Profession Skill 1
W = Forward
E = Utility Skill 1
R = Swap Weapon
T = Weapon Skill 2
A = Strafe Left
S = Backpedal
D = Strafe Right
F = Weapon Skill 1
G = Interact
Z = Reverse
X = Autorun
V = Stow Weapon
C = Reverse Camera
Scroll Wheel Left Tilt = Heal
Scroll Wheel Right Tilt = Dodge
Mouse (side panel) 1 = Next Target
M2 = Acquire Called Target
M3 = Call Target
M4 = Weapon Skill 4
M5 = Weapon Skill 5
M6 = Profession Skill 4
M7 = Profession Skill 2
M8 = Profession Skill 3
M9 = Profession Skill 5

Devoneaux.6302:

Also staff 2 is redundant

heresy!

Not quite. You get the leap finisher when you summon the illusion. Of course, if you are not in a field when you cast the summon, you will not get the combo effect. All leaps performed by the illusion count as a finisher for the illusion only.

It’s right here in the manual: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Swordsman

The leap finisher is applied to the mesmer upon summoning the phantasm. The phantasm itself also gets a leap finisher with each attack.

Try testing it with a different kind of field (e.g. light field from healing well) and you will see that it is always the leap finisher effect, not the blast effect.

Devoneaux.6302:

The prestige deals its damage in a radius around yourself, encouraging it’s use in close quarters. The problem is that it deals condition damage, and the MH sword that you’d use up close and personal has no conditions built in, so you have a kitten skill set that isn’t specific to any one damage type.

The solution: The prestige now causes the flameburst around the target of your next successful attack out of stealth, only centering on you if the stealth wears off naturally or if you’re kicked out of it.

There is both condition damage and direct damage, and the direct damage is nothing to sneeze at.

Meh, he has the right to his opinion and everyone has had a chance to respond by now. I just thought he should answer for the claims or demands he was making.

Hot Boy.7138:

I haven’t seen any really valid reasons of why sword is already a good pvp weapon to use primarily and doesn’t need any buffs.

Sword is a great pvp weapon and has always had a place in most top-tier mesmer builds. I’ve only tried builds without sword a handful of times, and the one legendary I have crafted is Bolt for my mesmer. Sword is not used exclusively, but in the context of competitive play no weapon is used exclusively (apart from professions that have no swap), so it would be false to judge it on those grounds. The reason why it’s great is because leap and blurred frenzy can be used together to set up a great damage combo, or blurred frenzy can be used alone for cleave and damage avoidance, while leap can also be used alone for juking. The AA chain packs a real punch and can help keep up pressure on opponents following a burst. That’s just 3 skills. The indirect benefit of sword is the flexibility of mesmer’s offhand choices, which add lots of utility and/or power to the weapon set, depending on what you need. It also complements the other weapon sets quite well, since you can use it for damage or defense.

Everyone wants to prove that they know more than me, or in some way to dismantle my argument by saying that I don’t know about mesmer.

If your knowledge base gets called into question, it’s because when you are incorrect about something you are liable to advance arguments on false premises. Most people here have put together helpful and considerate posts, and it’s sad that you don’t see that because you’ve fallen so deeply into this persecution complex. Go chill, then come back and read this thread without the assumption that everyone is out to get you, but instead just have different perspectives and insights of their own to share.

One question this thread has raised in my head concerns clone death – I am unsure about where their health stands now and if it’s relatively diminished because of overall power creep. That said, I think the ability to kill clones is an important part of counterplay. I also wonder how much the devs actually intended to raise the skill floor on leap with that bug fix.

There’s also leap finisher on swordsman and blast finisher on torch.

When a reasonable person makes a suggestion thread, the goal is to get feedback to figure out if it’s a good idea and how it can be improved. This guy clearly just wants something changed in the game and doesn’t seem interested in a constructive conversation. It’s very disrespectful to others and the time they’ve taken trying to advance the discussion.

If I assume a sincere interest in a constructive discussion on your part, there is clearly a large difference in perspective between you and everyone who has responded to your thread. To make room for productive conversation, that difference needs to be addressed, so that’s what I’ll do.

Hot Boy.7138:

melee mesmers

You keep talking about “melee mesmers” as though that’s a category which deserves consideration as a complete, indivisible profession identity. You propose that if “melee mesmers” do not have enough options to be effective, the game should be changed to correct that.

I’m not saying that you aren’t allowed to play mesmer this way (I suggested trying other professions because I thought it could help you find your desired playstyle), but I do think you are wrong to think of this as a category which should be assessed on its own. A “melee mesmer”, in my view, is simply a mesmer wielding a mainhand sword. When I think about how it should be balanced, my concern is how sword fares as a mainhand weapon, so I compare it to other mainhand weapons, and two-handed weapons, and think about how it complements the weapon options that the mesmer class has. This is how balance works for every profession. No one says, “scepter guardian needs mobility and blinds”, or “an ele who only uses fire attunement should get some CC and healing”. Promoting different builds means making sure the different weapons, utilities, traits, etc. all bring something valuable to the profession – it doesn’t mean making one weapon effective in every scenario.

You appear to be blind to potential unintended effects of the changes you propose, my guess is that it’s because you’ve stuck with this playstyle and not thought about much else. You admitted that your original suggestion to change Sharper Images wouldn’t work; changing or adding runes and sigils to make CC options more available would likewise be exploited by different builds and professions. So your alternatives are a buff or change in function to mainhand sword, which doesn’t make sense because the weapon is already strong enough to have a place in the most effective mesmer builds and people enjoy what its unique design brings to the game.

joshmossas.6542:

For those interested I did make a video playing this build to legend a while ago. So if you want to check it out feel free. #shamelessplug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-IACGTF3gw

This video was also before the recent [mirror blade] buff.

So much hype for double portal stomp

Windwalker wasn’t being any more or less thoughtful than other posters here, just more polite, even though you’re clearly an arrogant kitten in your own right.

Hot Boy.7138:

Telling someone to play another class is trolling.

I took the time to explain my position, but because you don’t like my conclusion then I must be trolling.

You say you want to play melee and dance around stronger enemies. That’s already in the game, but it’s not MH sword on mesmer. It’s MH sword on ranger, with a backwards evade + leap on #2, another evasive attack on #3, plus cripple on AA. It’s MH sword on thief, which has cripple on AA, a shadowstep with recall on #2, with the option of an evade/follow-up attack or stun with burst on #3.

What’s MH sword on mesmer? Boon strip AA, a long root evade coupled with burst, and leap towards target with immobilization. You’d have to radically redesign MH sword on mesmer to make it fit the archetype you described. I like MH sword on mesmer and I don’t think you’ve justified such a change.

Your current suggestion is to replace the bleed effect on sharper images with a cripple. This idea is not well-thought through. It wouldn’t make you better at trading blows in melee. If you’re getting wrecked by a warrior in melee because he has more weapon options and utilities available in melee, it does not matter that you apply a cripple to him if you’re just going to stay in melee and AA. If you think you’re going to use the cripple to run out of melee range so you can run back in and hit at an opportune time… I don’t know how that works unless he’s a keyboard turner.

However, you haven’t even considered how this would affect other mesmer builds – which is to say, it would be great! When I’m running GS and I get an additional source of cripple, now it’s that much easier for me to kite with all my ranged clones landing stacks of cripple.

And who am I going to kite?

Melee mesmers.

Hot Boy.7138:

And I’ve been playing mesmer since beta. I’ haven’t mained any other class.

I only played since launch so you must be right.

I’ve always run dual swords on one wep set and sword/x in the other set. I remember what melee builds were viable and what weren’t very clearly. Sword is the ONLY melee weapon mesmer have.

Melee mesmer builds were never viable. They may have been stronger with certain traits but that is not the same as being viable. Depends on your competition, I guess.

You’re telling me that sword only being used for blurred frenzy evasion is how mesmer should be and I should just play range like every other mesmer in pvp? What happens when the meta shifts to melee builds? Will you then say that range was never viable and it’s against class design asking for ranged weps to be buffed? There’s no end to the flip flopping of meta. It’s dynamic and will always be so, but that doesn’t mean someone should just delete their character and make a new one when it shifts. What i’m suggesting is a change to improve build diversity that fits the class design of a chronomancer/mesmer.

On this score, the meta has never flip-flopped, and for good reason. Running MH sword on both your swaps means you deprive yourself of having alternatives for your AA and 2-3 skills and they share a cooldown. In this case, you’re not going against class design, you’re going against game design.

One of this game’s major selling point is that there are multiple playstyles available for each class. You can be a warrior with a longbow, or a melee ranger with a greatsword, or even a elementalist with dual daggers, or play traditionally if you so choose.

It’s not effective for warriors or rangers to camp a single weapon either.

Sword is a dps weapon. Please don’t tell me that sword is supposed to be a defensive weapon and that it’s against class design for it to be anything such.

DPS weapon in PvE, but not in PvP. The 2.5s rooted evasion is a pretty big hint about what kind of weapon sword is.

If the best you can come up with to anyone who makes suggestions to improve build diversity is to play another class then you shouldn’t comment. Whenever I see a response like that I think to myself that person must be a troll.

You can either try to listen to others who disagree with you or just tell yourself they’re trolling. It’s up to you.

Build diversity involves having the options of multiple playstyles for a certain class. Don’t like direct damage, then you can do conditions. Don’t like melee, then play ranged. Want to play like wolverine, then run a drain life build., etc. The list goes on. Melee is my preferred playstyle on MESMER, not on any other class. I’ve always played melee mesmer through all the ups and through all the downs, and will continue to do so, but it can be improved. It could be made more fun. If i wanted to play another class, I don’t need you to tell me that.

All classes can’t be all things, or there would be no class diversity in this game. Mesmers are a squishy light armor class and have only one melee option, which makes them a poor class to use in melee-only. Warriors are a tanky heavy armor class and have access to 5 melee weapons, which makes them a better class to use in melee-only. You can ignore class design and play how you want, but if you do then don’t expect people to take your suggestions seriously.

Seems to me that playing mesmer as a melee class goes pretty hard against the class design. There’s a reason why MH sword is primarily a defensive weapon; as you point out, if you stay in melee against stronger melee classes, you’re going to get wrecked pretty quickly. If you’re playing power mesmer in the middle of the group fight, you’re going to get wrecked pretty quickly. You’re supposed to use your weapon swaps so that you can kite and avoid damage, and the clone death trait never made melee-only mesmer a viable build. If you don’t like that playstyle there are other professions that you might find more enjoyable.

Simonoly.4352:

Mesmer’s role in pressuring players on top of walls is pretty much the same as before HoT: Temporal Curtain things off the wall or into Necro Marks. However, Gravity Well provides a unique opportunity for some pretty potent CC. I often pull with Temporal Curtain into my own Gravity Well and have people spike the well. Works very well.

Thanks for reminding me about all those focus pull kills back when farming EB Sanctum was necessary to get a Legendary.

Elia.7193:

Hello. I play solo in ranked arenas, and lately it happened quite few times to be with a team where one (or even two!) people were camping the home point. Not just engineers with turrets but all professions, it just seem that some people think that this is a good idea.

If it’s not a turret engi then it’s probably just a turret engi doing their daily for another profession.

Recently ate CC and tons of cleave 1 second after popping a distortion with 3 clones up. Definitely went on cooldown so no chance of a misclick, unfortunately haven’t got more details on what happened.

I consider the problem with turret engis to be twofold:

1. Turret builds have excessive functionality.

In the past, there were (among other roles) decappers and bunkers. Decappers were annoying because in a 1v1 they could knock you off point and neutralize your node, and you’d have to fight them to get it back. Bunkers were annoying because they stopped you from taking a node, but thankfully they couldn’t apply enough pressure to push you off one.

The problem with turret engis is that they can both decap and bunker. It doesn’t matter if the point is friendly, neutral, or hostile, they’re going to take the point and sit on it until you’ve whittled down their turrets or gotten enough support to force them off.

Either you have to give up the point simply because the turret engi showed up, or you put your team at a disadvantage the whole time you’re fighting them. That’s right, while everyone else has to put in an effort to win games, turret engineers get a pass simply for showing up. Which leads to the more serious issue…

2. Turret builds are useful simply by existing.

Almost everything a turret engi brings to the table is passive. Their turrets just need to be placed, they have traits that give them regen and protection, and they can bring tanky amulets and still do a frightening amount of damage.

That means players who care only about winning, but never actually had the skill to win consistently, have found their answer. They are reveling in it, and this is making PvP a much less pleasant place to be.

This creates an issue whether the turret engi is your opponent or your teammate. When they win, they take all the credit, but when they lose, it’s the team’s fault. Why shouldn’t a turret engi come to that conclusion? They play the same game whether it’s a win and a loss, all they see is a different outcome.

An allied turret engi who camps one point and clicks their skills feels it’s entirely within their rights to criticize the rest of their team for failing to control 1/2 points when they are fighting the enemy 4v5, and that’s probably more annoying than an enemy turret engi who gloats after a win.

I wouldn’t be sad to simply see the turret engi nerfed, even with just 1 turret engi the build forces an adjustment in strategy that isn’t justified by the level of effort and skill that is put into playing it.

Anyways, a matchmaking approach won’t help, or it would be needlessly complicated. Turret engis often queue in pairs.

And I find it obnoxiously annoying that Rangers can cover the whole midpoint of Legacy and hit half the map from the top of clocktower in Kyhlo with their 1.5k+ range. Of course if you don’t have to expend effort it’s not really a challenge, now is it?

timmyf.1490:

Anyway, I get the feeling you aren’t asking for help so much as complaining, but if you’d like help, I’d suggest less multiclassing to begin with. Pick a good starter build (I suggest Hambow) and play 75-100 games on it.

Mostly this ^

You mention playing 10 different builds, exactly how many games have you tried with each build? Going into solo Q it’s not unexpected to hit a 4 or 5 game losing streak, if you combine that with playing badly then losing 9 out of 10 doesn’t surprise me at all. Meta builds only work if you know how to play them.

Wait, how do you know that it’s a full premade if it isn’t a guild? The only way I know is to check if the enemies are in party, but it could still be a party of 2 and a second party of 3. Otherwise you might just be facing players who know what they’re doing and who got a good comp by chance.

You also didn’t answer my second question.

You need to clarify, since you haven’t already:

Are you facing full premades? Partial? Do you ever have premades on your team?

Stop playing so many different builds.

Drakortha.6974:

If L2P is the best argument you can come up with I don’t know why i bother responding to you.

And you say “lowest tiers”, like it doesnt even matter. But what you fail to realize is 99% of the pvp player-base is low tier. So you’re effectively telling me, “oh, this only effects most of the playerbase so it doesn’t matter.”

If you want a game that’s designed with the lowest tier of play in mind, go play tic-tac-toe. What makes this game fun, engaging, and challenging long after your first few games is the fact that it has unique and complex mechanics. Proposing to take content (in this case, an entire profession) out of the game because you found it too difficult without even asking for advice just leads us all down the garden path to a truly bland experience.

Main since pre-launch

I know why Rangers exist: So that players like OP can do alright without learning how to play.

Sweet, nice to see it up! I haven’t thought too much about picking up Sword/Torch. I still think I should continue working on my Staff play, but maybe some second thoughts now.

Confirmed PvP team created a system that rewards pre-season tanking.

I didn’t even know that we had this trait. What kind of troll gave us this trait?

Oh no! You’re downed! But don’t worry, have this boon!

There’s guides in the forum sticky post and on the GW2 subreddit, once you’ve taken a look at those resources I encourage you to ask here any questions you still have. Having and knowing how to use a good build matters, knowing how to rotate on the map matters more.

But it’s so easy to check the combat log, why didn’t you just do that instead of proposing the existence of a serious bug that’s never been documented :\

Mogar.9216:

For me I need los to beat a good power ranger assume we both start fresh with all the cds. Or else I moa them kittens.

Kited a power ranger like hell last night, landed some solid shatters, just moved into a safe spot to heal up before landing the finishing blow when I got steal + backstabbed by a thief. Such is life

jenzie.4083:

I find it hard to NOT use stealth against that channeled hell.. it comes so naturally and I swear every time.. one day I will learn.

Haha, I get what you mean. I was fighting a shoutbow warrior and knew he was watching my dodges so that he could land pin down and… I still burned them needlessly. So I ate pin down.

These ranger fights were on Legacy and Temple, I probably also need to be less obvious about focusing the ranger because a head-on charge requires me burning all my cooldowns to even engage. Of course, this gives him plenty of time to pew pew my allies.

I don’t know why there haven’t been tons of posts about this, it’s been happening constantly.

Dear Diary,

That power ranger wrecked me. Masterful reflection only takes you so far. I adjusted by finding some good spots to use LoS, and had some effective escape portals, although it wasn’t enough. Moa would also have helped, but since this was solo queue I was still finding myself in 1v1/1v2 situations and couldn’t count on allies being present to focus the target.

How do you deal with power rangers? Do you call in allies? Is it enough to LoS them? Go in aggressively? Do you try to get dueling experience?

//

Fay: If I’m able to identify on my own the kind of issues I have, and if these are issues that other players have encountered, then at least I can take from other players those strategies or methods they used to deal with those issues. There’s plenty of feedback that gets tossed around without someone giving video replay, and I’m not looking for a definitive answer, it’s more like brainstorming before I tackle the problem by myself.

Looks like the cooldown issue was fixed, I tested it in one spot where I had an issue post-patch. The pathing rules were pretty much set already, so I don’t expect any changes as far as that’s concerned.

Patch notes only mention Master of Manipulation, but I tested with Far-Reaching Manipulations, Master of Manipulation, and both traits, and they all seem to be working as intended now.

Corneilius.3761:

I was thinking of rolling with GS/Staff as weapons, and I am pretty sure that the traits don’t have MUCH wiggle room, for Shatter, especially with the Illusions trait line. I roll with the GS training trait over torch…pretty much all I have changed.

I run GS/Staff, it’s a pretty popular combo. Shattered Concentration is the master trait you want to slot in the Domination line, not the weapon traits. Being able to strip boons is really important when you need to set up CC and burst damage on a target.

I am based in NA, I get 200-250ms on EU servers and 100-150ms on NA servers.

But seriously, queueception is not just something I dreamed of.

I understand that, hence the question towards the end that is more about your individual approach rather than a specific error on my part. Part of this is just a record of my mistakes (I want to get better at catching them) and an invitation to others to share their experience. It’s not so much, “Help me solve these issues I’m struggling with”, as it is an opportunity to learn from each others’ experiences in the game.

I have been trying get some recording software working, in which case I could include that along with my own thoughts.

Hi all!

I’ve been meaning to start regularly reviewing my experiences in PvP as a way to identify my weaknesses and to get feedback, while also sharing the lessons I learned from my mistakes with others. Starting a stream might also be a good way to accomplish these goals, but I have serious doubts about the capacity of my hardware and connection to support a stream. I’m running a standard shatter mesmer build.
link

Having started focusing on PvP a month or two ago, I’m now getting matched up against top players, so I’m looking forward to the challenge. Here’s my current assessment of my abilities, 1 being a casual PvPer, 5 being a godlike no-scoper:

Mechanical skill: 3/5 I can read a fight and land a burst well, though my reaction times aren’t always on point and when this happens I might fumble a play
Map awareness: 3/5 The benefit of going solo Q most of the time
Team communication: 1/5 I would need a team to actually work on this
Team synergy: 1/5

Any other categories I’m missing?

Now, tonight:

Between lag spikes, horrendously lopsided matches, the queue bug, and trying to get Twitch functioning, tonight was interesting and I only stuck around for a few matches. I’ll start with the stupid stuff:

My first two matches saw me getting repeatedly 100-0’d by DPS guardians and thieves, with zero reaction on my part to getting spiked. I also got myself called out for backpedaling in a 1v1 (rightly so), and neglected to use portal when I could have saved myself in one instance too.

In the third match I put a portal on top of a downed Denshee, proceeded to travel through my own portal, where I ate an arcing arrow on the other end (a warrior was recapping his node), then portalled back to finish the hard res. Some would say that I should uninstall the game at this point, I can only make promises that this hilariously bad maneuver will not be repeated.

Good stuff:

Won a 1v1 against a good d/p thief. Can’t remember what I did right, he stayed close so I managed to drop chaos storm and land my shatters. I also got a useful !! portal stomp off at some point tonight, I guess I should keep a running tally of those (1). I wanted to take the portal after that but there was too much pressure and I had to back off. Stole a boss on Forest while kiting a necro around some LOS.

My main issue was getting 100-0’d in situations where I had cooldowns and didn’t use them in time or appropriately. This isn’t always an issue, but I’m curious what strategies you might have to make sure you can deal with that hard pressure intelligently. I do know my situational awareness was also lacking at times, but there were occasions where I would have anticipated being focused.

Ideas? Questions? Gripes?

Had a queue pop during a ranked game, I hit cancel but 3 players from our match disappeared, so we won with a comeback 4v3!

Heard a couple of other people talking about it.

Then I saw 4 separate queues pop mid-game on Caed’s stream. Went Legacy, they cancelled the second, then Temple, finally Forest.

Pros
Map variety
Less time spent in lobby

Cons
Enemies can just leave if they don’t like the match-up
Makes leaderboard system even more opaque

Your thoughts?

Sube Dai.8496:

ANET announced that they were nerfing certain port locations. This was taken as a nerf to thief and mesmer mobility, with the hope that other classes in the dps role like ranger and medi guard could at least compete for that spot on a team.

There was an announcement? Did we all miss it? That would have helped to address all the rampant speculation.

Kysin.6349:

For those experiencing it, it is the UI. If you hide your UI (Shift+ctrl+H), then it should be back to normal. This is NOT a fix, but at least we know it is the UI…

Didn’t restore my FPS to how it was before, but gave me back about 7-8 frames.

You’re not the only one.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/massive-fps-drop-after-update
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/Lowered-frame-rate-after-patch
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/interface-eating-7-fps
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Patch-ruined-fps
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/FPS-DROP-after-Patch/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Completely-Tanked-FPS

I have also had a frame rate drop, it was 40FPS prior to the patch, now it’s 20FPS. I looked at frame rates in the HotM lobby both times, and haven’t made any changes to my graphics settings.

I’m down to 20 FPS from 40 FPS immediately before the patch, in the HotM lobby. Haven’t changed my settings.

I tried to find a photo of a beaver in a bathing suit but Google only yielded to me a bunch of hairless apes.

Please revert this change or make it optional.

MightyMicah.7451:

So I would have said Mesmers were underpowered until about three days ago. In the past I’ve attempted mesmer several times to no avail. But a few days ago I aquired a brand new build on youtube, modified it only slightly to my liking, and began pvping. I honestly don’t know what happened this time around but something clicked in my head. I’ve had so much freaking fun and this class has performed like Magic for me. Not only was I dropping enemies like flies, but I was able to quite easily beat several medi guards and Ele’s in 1v1s.

-snip-

1. The right build. Do not aquire a build from metabattle. I don’t know what genius put those there, but they’re terrible builds. Find something on YouTube perhaps.

MightyMicah.7451:

Notimik.3589:

What kind of build do you refer to micah?

This is what I’m currently running with few minor changes: http://youtu.be/ZfW1Ra4duOI

Oh, phantasm build. I remember the first time I played against a good player using phantasms, I got shredded. I was goofing around and using a melee zerker warrior build that I threw together on the spot, and with him porting around constantly I wasn’t able to do any damage. After dying a few times I swapped to the meta shoutbow build and we moved to a different location where there were LOS obstacles. The fights immediately went the other way.

I agree that I’d like to see a phantasm build shared on places like metabattle, not because I think it’s particularly strong, but it is a good entry point into PvP for what is otherwise a difficult class. I’m glad you’re having fun with it, but you will hit a wall playing with that build. It’s way too easy to negate the damage from phantasms by using LOS and/or dodges, and without phantasm damage you’re hitting like a wet noodle. Most of the meta builds other professions run pack enough AoE to wipe out your phantasms or CC to interrupt your very obvious casts. I’m sure there are specific 1v1 matchups where the pressure it applies can make it more effective than shatter, but shatter is preferred for teams simply because of its extremely quick burst.

Engineer, elementalist, and warrior excel with the celestial amulet, d/d ele being strongest 1v1 and brief 2v1s, engineer better for roaming due to CCs, and warrior bringing great group support with shout heals and warhorn cleanses.

Teams also bring 1+ DPS builds, typically thief, meditation guardian, or mesmer, power and condi necro or ranger are sometimes used as well.