Guild Wars 2

Xillllix.3485:

They need to make pvp skill-based instead of just needing to have the right comp running the cheesiest build. There is a reason a game like Rocket League is going so well right now as an eSport.

You can’t have an eSport when things are so unfairly balanced, you can only pretend.
We ALL want GW2 to succeed, but to be honest GW2 eSport proposition looks amateurish right now. Promoting build variety is the solution: you can only get balanced gameplay if players can find counters themselves, but right now everything is so one-dimensional (so much condi and ccs) there is nothing positive to look at when making a build on some classes.

Rocket League has also a much better season and matchmaking system. Your rank on rocket league (the equivalent of gw2 division) is directly tied to your mmr and the matchmaking is completely based on your mmr.

In that game the rank actually shows the skill level of a player with very few exceptions. I don’t know why GW2 doesn’t do it like that, it’s really simple.

But for some reason in GW2 they insist in keeping the mmr of players and their division as completely different systems so it causes the divisions to be just a grind and don’t show the skill level of the players.

It’s just absurd to have a ranked mode that allows to have players from all the skill ranges in all of their divisions. Season 4, for what I read will be just pure grind and that’s it, even players in the lowest skill range can get to the legendary division with enough games…

I’m a little annoyed about the requirement. The only content that I enjoy right now are raids and pvp. And I really don´t like open world pve. I will still unlock the mastery just to be able to play the raid, but it´s a painful and boring experience for me. I haven´t even done the HoT personal story.

The problem for me is not about the time it takes, my problem is that I have to spend that time doing stuff that I don´t like at all.

I have been raiding almost every week since they were released and I only have 37 mastery points and I still need like 20 mastery points to be able to unlock the ley line mastery.

Wing 1 + wing 2 only needed 9 mastery points, 14 if you count the speed mushroom for vale guardian and 17 if you count lean techniques to get back from then cannons faster at sabetha.

For the new wing you will need 25 additional mastery points just because of the ley line mastery, 28 if you didn´t unlock the lean techniques for wing 1, adn you also need a lot of experience points. I hope that at least the mechanic involving the ley line mastery they implement for the fight is going to be fun.

There are some masteries that shouldn´t even exist in my opinion and they are just there for the sake of adding grind like the explosive launch and Forsaken Thicket Waters masteries. They are just passive effect that you don´t even notice once you have them unlocked and only apply to some specific encounters.

MadRabbit.3179:

BlueDragon.7054:

Dahkeus.8243:

BlueDragon.7054:

Shovel Face.4512:

Update: Ran with all raid buffs plus food and best possible teef dps set. Was able to reach 30k. An Ele friend I brought was able to reach 33k but without food

Which golem were you using for the tests?, Do all the golems have the same thoughness?, I didn´t try them all.

I don´t know if this is good or bad but I was getting like 33k dps in the 1 million golem easily without tryharding the rotations. It can go higher with seaweed salad probably, I was using the +power+ferocity food.

What build?

@ MadRabbit: Yea, you’re right. With that rotation, I’m 31-32k.

The usual staff build, burst 38.7k, sustained like 33.1k. But as I said it can go higher with optimal food and adding full might infusions.

What is your sigil and rune setup?

Air, Force and scholar runes.

I did some more testing and you can get 35k sustained dps consistently with the 1million golem. This time I used seaweed salad. And 43.4k burst damage.

Dahkeus.8243:

BlueDragon.7054:

Shovel Face.4512:

Update: Ran with all raid buffs plus food and best possible teef dps set. Was able to reach 30k. An Ele friend I brought was able to reach 33k but without food

Which golem were you using for the tests?, Do all the golems have the same thoughness?, I didn´t try them all.

I don´t know if this is good or bad but I was getting like 33k dps in the 1 million golem easily without tryharding the rotations. It can go higher with seaweed salad probably, I was using the +power+ferocity food.

What build?

@ MadRabbit: Yea, you’re right. With that rotation, I’m 31-32k.

The usual staff build, burst 38.7k, sustained like 33.1k. But as I said it can go higher with optimal food and adding full might infusions.

Shovel Face.4512:

Update: Ran with all raid buffs plus food and best possible teef dps set. Was able to reach 30k. An Ele friend I brought was able to reach 33k but without food

Which golem were you using for the tests?, Do all the golems have the same thoughness?, I didn´t try them all.

I don´t know if this is good or bad but I was getting like 33k dps in the 1 million golem easily without tryharding the rotations. It can go higher with seaweed salad probably, I was using the +power+ferocity food.

Evan Lesh.3295:

In season 1 every match was trying to be even, but this allowed players to grind through the ladder. Season 2 is the opposite of this, but players are clearly experiencing matches that are too volatile. Once players reach a division relative to their skill, the only blowout matches that should be happening would be from people coming late to the season. I feel there may be balance between the two styles of matchmaking that maintain prestige, but avoid an abundance of blowouts.

Would´t it be easier, more accurate and less grindy to make divisions based completely on MMR treshold?

Like Amber 0-500 MMR, Emerald 501-1000 MMR, etc.

Then the matchmaking will simply need to grab 10 players with similar MMR and sort them in the 2 teams. For new players create placement matches or something but don´t let them get over certain MMR just from the placement matches.

That system will also probably increase the population in the higher tiers but will keep the “prestige”

For the rewards, make a repeatable reward track for each division, and the higher the division the better the rewards from the rewards track. And of course you make it so you can only advance those reward tracks playing ranked games.

Cynz.9437:

This suggestion would work for next season, not current one since last season was based on different matchmaking and a lot of bad players got to diamond/legend by exploiting, carried by low MMR, farming SH etc. You can imagine what happens if they land in ruby while having low MMR and facing legit diamond/legend opponents xD

As I suggested in another post, they only need to make the starting position based on your MMR.

(Copy & paste from the other pos) They just need to add a MMR threshold for your starting division(except for new players).
For example:
1500 to 1700 MMR start at emerald
1701 to 1900 MMR start at saphire
1900+ MMR start at ruby
Or something like that.

R O C.6574:

So your opponent match-ups are within your pip range…

I guess that’s fine, but that assumes that all top tier players started AT the beginning of the season. My guess is there will be teams face-smashing lower tier teams the entire season.

I think the system is fine mostly, they just need to add a MMR threshold for your starting division(except for new players).

For example:

1500 to 1700 MMR start at emerald
1701 to 1900 MMR start at saphire
1900+ MMR start at ruby

Or something like that.

void.6217:

Zuko.7132:

Has anyone else been having a very easy time this season? Im at tier 5 of emerald, and I’ve only lost 2 games so far. Lot’s of them have been blow outs. I won like 500 to 5 with an all solo team. I guess if the goal is to make skilled players progress faster it is working, but I’d also like to face some challenging opponents. I guess it will get better as I get in higher divisions since more skilled people will be there. At least this season will probably indicate skill more. Just wondering what u guys thought.

If you solo Q, this only shows that the system is severely biased to some people, because of their previous ranks or their pvp level.

There is no possible way to progress through emerald when you are randomly grouped up with players with random experience / classes what not. It will probably take about 300 games to go through 1 emerald tier by luck.

If you playing with 4 new players you won’t win even if you are pvp superstar.

If you are a newbie matched with 4 superstars most likely you will win anyway.

It’s all the inner workings of the MM system.

You are not randomly grouped up with players with random experience. You are grouped up with people that have similar MMR to your MMR.

Then you are matched against players in your pip range and in the opponents team, they have similar MMR between them.

A few minutes ago I got the pop up to accept a ranked match. I clicked accept and the game said the game is about to start, I didn´t get any map vote screen. After like 2 minutes it said you have been removed from the queue.

I tried to queue again and the game said I had dishonor…..

Is that a common bug?, does it break the winning streak if the match haven´t started yet?

Lexander.4579:

pakuras.7652:

Lexander.4579:

just tank your mmr by sitting afk in a dozen of matches, anyway anet isnt banning for that

So you suggest to lose some matches to be able to win some matches?

you can spam losses being at the point where you cant lose tiers/points then start playing after you feel like you dropped enough mmr

That’s the worst thing you can do in the current season if you want to progress….

All members of you team have similar mmr between each other, and the other team can be of any mmr range as long as they are on your pip range.

So imagine you drop your mmr to be the lowest in the pip range considered in the matchmaking, you will get on you team people with very low mmr always and you will likely play against players with much higher mmr.

Tanking mmr is a terrible idea if you want to advance fast.

kuroro.1379:

I’m really keen to see an example of a person who has 15 winning streak and is in solo queue.

I had a 18 winning streak yesterday soloqueueing with my thief.

Harper.4173:

First of all the number of insights increases per week.
Second of all I don’t think you understood the method.

The splitting is not the actual test – you can split as fast as you can copy/paste.
The pinging is the test – the sequence and how fast you can ping it.
You can’t pre set-up this because guess what – the sequence I’m going to ask for will be random.
It might include pinging the stack of 5 insights once, or 20 times, intertwined with other pings for other stacks. You can’t prepare for it. You have to do it on the spot – and you can copy/paste the codes provided you have all of them – but it will take you longer to copy and paste a code and send it than it would take you to ping it from your inventory.

Over a sequence of 2-3 codes the let’s say 1 second delay between actual inventory pinging and copy/pasting might not be big enough to be conclusive – but over a let’s say a sequence of 20 codes – if you lose 0.5 seconds because you’re not pinging and are copy/pasting and it’s just a bit slower – well that’s 10 seconds.

So if I give you a sequence of 20 – and you’re let’s say 5 seconds slower than I calculate you should be – I’ll kick you.

Your method is only a hassle for legit players and won’t do anything for players that want to lie about their insights and experience.

Also people that want to lie can do your pinging sequence method way faster than legit players if the use macros.

And the macro for that would be really simple. Since it seems that you don’t understand what people can do with a macro I will try to explain.

(There are many ways to do it)

For example, in programming there’s something called dictionaries which can pair key values with other type of data. In this case you could put as a key value the number of insights(the key value would work like a search index) and the paired value would be a string containing the chat code.

You could have a dictionary that contains all possible insight number.

Then the macro would be really simple, something like when you press and hold some key (control, alt, or whatever you want) start reading number input, when you release the key, retrieve the string value(chat code) associated with that number (the key value). Then automatically copy and paste that chat code.

I hope that makes it clear for you, people that want to trick you could ping you the insights with any sequence faster than legit players with a macro that does something llike that.

Which that kind of macro, they would only need to press and hold one key + type number of insights + release key to ping you any number of insights that you want. And the sequence wouldn’t matter at all.

*English is not main language, sorry if it’s not explained clearly and for grammar and spelling mistakes.

For what I can see in the video, people werent doing what they said they were going to do, and werent using the traits that were planed.

All the condi thieves were supposed to be using venom share. For might stacks for the party, damage boost and for control. You can immob the red seekers we said it since the beginning, one venom share casting devourer venom gives enough immob for the red orbs if necessary when you are on the Green circle.

Also we said that at least 2 in each subgroup were going to use trickery with thrill of chrime to keep fury and also bountiful theft.

Many times the the people that were supposed to go to Green circle duty didnt go and didnt even call for a cover on the ts, so most of the times 1 – 2 people tried to cover and it started to get really messy.

Also from tthe video the condi damage you were doing seemed really low, Im not attacking you I know you probably use power spec normally. But for it to work you need people with proper gear(for condi viper + sinister) and that knows to use the spec.

In conclusion:

I believe it s possible, but you need people that knows the fight( most were New), also you need good coordination and everyone properly geared. The builds should be discussed and planned properly for each member and everyone needs to use it as planned, no yolo.

Knowledge and practice in the fight is important, you should get people that knows the fight and has practice in it. If you cant find experienced people in the raid that also have thief, you should train you squad doing vg kills with a normal comp first before doing a full thief run. If you cant kill it with a normal comp, you wont be killing him with full thief.

Even if you get 10 experienced players it may be a good idea to do a normal kill first. To get used to each other and because if you cant kill him with the squad with the normal comp it would be just a waste of time doing it full thief, and it wouldn’t proof anything.

Suggestions:

For the Green circle duty get venom share players. Make them use shortbow as second weapon set for mobility to the Green circles. Take turns with devourer venom and you can let the bouncing arrow do the job for the seekers.

Use the damage venoms on cooldown but make sure that they aren´t used by more than one thief at the same time and dont activate the venom on the next thief until the charges from the first thief that activated the venom are used or you will waste venoms.

Get experienced people in the raid willing to listen, and with patience and time.

I can play any power spec, but I prefer staff.

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the PvP team:

Shopping for Ambers

In addition to the changes above, we’ll also be adjusting the way that parties are scored in our matchmaking algorithm based on the overall division spread of a team’s makeup. It is important to us that anyone can play with their friends regardless of league standing, but in doing so, we also want to ensure that teams aren’t gaining an unfair advantage in match difficulty based on their rosters. An example of this would be two friends: one is in Diamond and the other is in Amber. For Season 2, these two players will still be able to team up and play together, but they’ll be placed into Diamond level matches based on the highest division player in the party. This means that forming a party with players in a higher division than you will always bring you up to their level for matchmaking and prediction, rather than adjust to compensate for party members at lower divisions. This specific change will go into effect in our next scheduled release (prior to the end of season 1).

So if a Diamond or legend player decides to trio queue with 2 friends that are completely New to the game, the other 2 players that get placed on that team are screwed??, that’s not fair.

In my opinion with that system you should only be able to queue with people from your division +/- 1. Unless it s a full party. With that system if you queue with 5 it should be ok, but if you are less than 5, it will be unfair for the other people that get placed on the team.

So when is this happening for NA?, I think we are already 10

DasPatAttack.2516:

Hi Rogues,
you can add me as Condi/Venom share on EU.

We did some tests here and note that 2 thieves condis might be be sufficient for phases 2/4 as soon as
- they can pop a mob to share venoms (the mob trap does the trick).
- there is an extra mate to get the venoms (the healer?)
-> that makes 5 people receive the venoms.

Character name is Steph La Dude.

May be it would be better to have 3-4 venom share thieves for the party might stacks, the 4th could be the tank.

Zlater.6789:

hmm I’d really like to see that build and give it a go, do you have a link to it by any chance?
I usually try to aim for 1mil damage before I make a verdict on something, the best I’ve gotten so far is 5.4k on a berzerker staff build.

@EasyPanda.5419
I’m getting 5.4k with this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVl8MhGnYxTwwJw/EL0EmWAYCFBmrgbwR42DIBsnA-TJBFwAI3foaZAAXAgCPAAA

Now when you say 20k? do you mean a 20k vault, because I can get that to 13k now. And I guess most people wouldn’t be talking about DPS as in actual damage per second but just some skill they use a lot.

In pve 20k vaults are really easy to get. In vale guardian my max vault damage has hit for 43k without using no quarter. And in average you get 30k vaults in that fight.

When they said 20k probably they were talking about dps. I haven’t tried to measure the dps but I think in group play is higher than 20k. For reference weakening strike hits from 9k to 12k per hit in vale guardian.

NA
Im interested in a full thief team VG kill. I have killed him many times with my thief but I want to try it with just thieves.

Full ascended berserker armor and weapons. Melee staff dps role prefered.

Commander tag available.

Ensign.2189:

BlueDragon.7054:

So Revenant dps is higher even if the dare devil uses no quarter??, I’ m just curious.

We’re talking models here. The results of the model depend on the assumptions that go into the model.

If you put both the revenant and the daredevil in the same group (same external buffs), but no external quickness or alacrity, have the daredevil play perfectly (landing 3 hits on every weakening charge, keeping bounding dodger up as much as possible, etc) while the herald simply auto-attacks with a sword and uses no other skills, the daredevil will do more damage than the auto-attacking revenant – I get around 6-7%. You could make both sides dodge a lot and make the daredevil look better, since it deals damage on dodge while the revenant just takes a damage loss. If the revenant can use non-Impossible Odds skills, their damage is nearly identical.

If you give both the revenant and the daredevil quickness, the revenant does a lot more damage than the daredevil – quickness effectively gives both more auto-attacks, and the revenant is better at that. Also, the daredevil needs to dodge to keep damage buffs up, which is not boosted by quickness. Similarly with alacrity – revenant benefits little from alacrity but gets more Frigid Blitzes and Unrelenting Assaults, while the daredevil gets essentially zero.

If the revenant can make use of Impossible Odds it blows the daredevil out of the water – by a good 25-30% more DPS or so.

So which is going to do better in your group? You really have to look at the situation and figure out what sort of model is going to best approximate reality. If there’s no external quickness, the revenant will use IO and blow everyone else’s direct DPS out of the water. If there is permanent external quickness, the two will be closer, but the revenant will still do more damage. If you have to dodge a whole lot and you can’t spend a lot of time on the target, the daredevil will do better – since it has so many built in evades that do pretty good damage. My experience in raids is much closer to the former two cases – the first if there’s not a mesmer tank, the second if there is one – and in those circumstances the revenant is unambiguously better damage-wise, on top of pumping out a ton of boons. In another fight, where there’s more to dodge and I can’t just sit on a boss DPSing with my auto-attack, things could be different.

BlueDragon.7054:

But even if the Revenant has a little more dps, the damage of the dare devil isn t as bad as many people believe, may be even unoticeable considering dodges, break bar and that kitten happens sometimes.

It is, and it isn’t – 3 revenants pumping IO do comparable damage to 4 daredevils going full bore, and an extra person worth of DPS is not a joke. Even that is nothing compared to the difference between an experienced player performing near peak (say, doing 85-90% of what it says on paper) and someone inexperienced missing their skill rotations, dodging ineffectively, and getting downed. Revenant may not require a whole lot from the pilot but I would take an experienced daredevil over a kitten y revenant any day. Furthermore, raid enrage timers are not so tight that they cannot be done without the best classes with the best builds performed masterfully – even tight DPS checks like Gorseval can be done with tanks and support classes that contribute little DPS, and that’s a much bigger gulf than the one between daredevil and revenant.

So, I mean, look, if you are coming in fresh and picking a class for raids, between daredevil and revenant I would choose revenant every time. It simply has more power and does more than a daredevil. If on the flip side you have thousands of hours on a thief and the alternative is dumping a thousand gold into a revenant that you have to learn to play from scratch…the difference in performance may not be that big a deal. I personally re-rolled to revenant for raids, and do not regret that for a moment because the performance difference is stark – but if my friends list was barren and the only thing I could get to fill in the last slot for a raid was a DPS staff thief, sure, it can do the job well enough, and while I haven’t run with one yet I’ve done plenty of runs with power necros or damage guardians or the like and they certainly haven’t been anchors around the neck of the group.

Nice, thanks for the information and for you time giving such a complete answer. I think I will keep using the thief for now since I have spent 2437 hours on the thief (considering afk times of course), and gold is really hard for me to get since most of the times I only play pvp sometimes fractals and now raids. It was really difficult for me to get my thief to be 100% ascended, I even had to use my credit card…

Ensign.2189:

Swiftwynd.1685:

EDIT: This is 2am math for me, if ANYTHING is incorrect please correct me, I really dont want to be spreading inaccurate information.

Sure.

First, your auto-chain numbers are off. Revenant sword ratios are 0.85/1.05/1.3 over 0.6/0.75/0.75 seconds, for a total of 3.2 ratio over 2.1 seconds.

Daredevil staff ratios are 0.525/0.55/1.0 over 0.5/0.75/1.0 seconds, for a total of 2.175 ratio over 2.25 seconds.

Staff has a 10% higher base damage than sword which you need to take into account – so by default, revenant sword does ((3.2/2.1)/(2.175*1.1/2.25)-1 = 43% more damage than staff.

The Weakening Charge timing is off as well – it has a 0.5 second wind up, and then a 0.5 second execute time (treated as a channel) for a total of 1.0 seconds per activation. A 2.1 ratio from a 3 hit WC over 1 second is still very good and weaving that in alongside the autoattack gets you closer, but not quite to, the level of the revenant auto-attack.

Also, get the critical damage modifier traits straight. The + critical damage % damage traits (like Flawless Strike) are indeed multiplicative like other +% damage traits (though only on crits) but the ferocity bonuses need to be counted like stat bonuses, and go on top of not just gear and food buffs but also the buffs from banners, Assassin’s Presence, and anything else you might have. They still matter but you can’t simply multiply them through like the other modifiers.

I think you just assume the Bounding Dodger buff is up all the time. It doesn’t really work that way – you can’t keep it up 100% of the time, and dodging to keep it up has to be woven into your rotation and does cost you DPS. You probably want to model it explicitly and not just assume it is up all the time.

So Revenant dps is higher even if the dare devil uses no quarter??, I’ m just curious.

But even if the Revenant has a little more dps, the damage of the dare devil isn t as bad as many people believe, may be even unoticeable considering dodges, break bar and that kitten happens sometimes.

Swiftwynd.1685:

BlueDragon.7054:

Swiftwynd.1685:

Rodriguez.8106:

Swiftwynd.1685:

Simply put, no class will “add more total damage to the raid” than a Daredevil if your offensive support needs are sufficiently met.

nice world u are living in… thief most dmg made my day. rev with autoattack makes way more dps just by standing at the boss and do nothing but AA. no matter which buffs are on both classes

In real numbers, what I’ve seen in a non optimized raid looks something like a 10,000 dodge, 18,000 or higher Weakening Charge hitting three times for 6k, and ending with a 20,000+ ish total auto chain that is admittedly lower than Revs, repeated every 4 seconds.

And last but not least, Vault. Vault regularly hits for over 22,000 in raids, and is a great tool to reposition yourself while having to be mobile AND do damage. It is far less efficient than Weakening strike, but it has the Evade at the start, is 5 target AoE, and helps you get to places without really sacrificing your dps (so does steal as well, but it has a timer.)

Dare devil damage is good, you are even being really conservative with the damage of the dare devil, unless Gorseval has more thoughness than the vale guardian, I have defeated the Vale guardian, but I have´t tried Goreseval yet, so I don´t know.

In a pug group in the Vale Guardian my dodge hits from 12k to 16k, weakening strike from 8500 to 10200per hit (so like 30600 max) and vault from 26000 to 32000. (those numbers are aproximate, I don´t remember the exact numbers.)

Exactly. My group was very unoptimized it didnt have a good ps warrior and druid wasnt coordinating his damage buffs for burst phase.

Another thing i forgot to mention is daredevil is the only class in the game that can compress a lot of their damage potential front loaded into a 6 second window if needed, which is perfect for a druid popping all their damage buffs at once along with the chrono.

Two dodges and 5 weakening charges with quickness and full druid buffs is rediculously far and away the best burst dps in the game.

Yeah, and the damage can go higher, that damage was using invigorating presition instead of no quarter while the boss was above 50%. I saw in reddit a thief that made 41k vault on vale guardian.

Also unfortunately I didnt have the scholar runes because I used to play solo alot and sometimes with groups that didnt have enough fury before Hot, and I spent all my gold getting the ascended staff(sorry to my squad for not having the max possible damage build).

But even with that we were getting really good times, phase 1 at 6 minutes 50 seconds usually ,with 1 or 2 teleported during that phase sometimes, so we could have done it a little faster . I know it can be done at 7 but 6.50 is not bad.

Swiftwynd.1685:

Rodriguez.8106:

Swiftwynd.1685:

Simply put, no class will “add more total damage to the raid” than a Daredevil if your offensive support needs are sufficiently met.

nice world u are living in… thief most dmg made my day. rev with autoattack makes way more dps just by standing at the boss and do nothing but AA. no matter which buffs are on both classes

In real numbers, what I’ve seen in a non optimized raid looks something like a 10,000 dodge, 18,000 or higher Weakening Charge hitting three times for 6k, and ending with a 20,000+ ish total auto chain that is admittedly lower than Revs, repeated every 4 seconds.

And last but not least, Vault. Vault regularly hits for over 22,000 in raids, and is a great tool to reposition yourself while having to be mobile AND do damage. It is far less efficient than Weakening strike, but it has the Evade at the start, is 5 target AoE, and helps you get to places without really sacrificing your dps (so does steal as well, but it has a timer.)

Dare devil damage is good, you are even being really conservative with the damage of the dare devil, unless Gorseval has more thoughness than the vale guardian, I have defeated the Vale guardian, but I have´t tried Goreseval yet, so I don´t know.

In a pug group in the Vale Guardian my dodge hits from 12k to 16k, weakening strike from 8500 to 10200per hit (so like 30600 max) and vault from 26000 to 32000. (those numbers are aproximate, I don´t remember the exact numbers.)

If you are on NA I would like to try algo.

Nebulizer.3276:

Discord invites only last for 24hr, so Bump and new invite….we have about 20 on the server atm, let’s keep getting those numbers up and hopefully this can become more active.

Discord Invite: https://discord.gg/0eqmIfJb57AtgO8Q

You can create a permanent link, you Just have to click on the advanced settings and select never expire or something like that.

The problem would be the might stacking, may be with 4 venom share condi thieves(one of them would be the tank), but Im not sure that would be enough might. Although the lack of the full 25 stacks of might could be compensated because of the extra player dealing good damage by not having a healer.

It should be doable without pushing the red orbs, you don t need to stand in the Green aoe for the full duration, Just the Last seconds.

So you could be near the Green circle but not on it to prevent the red orbs from stacking there, and then before you run out of time port iinside with shortbow 5, shadow step, a dodge or whats ver you have.

Although it would be harder than getting to the Green circle as son as possible, sb 3 can algo help inside the circle with good positioning.

Eirdyne.9843:

Finding a Raid
Joining a Raid
- Cannot Invite people within the instance Spirit Vale
- Cannot join a group of people within the instance Spirit Vale (frequently)

You can, but it’s tedious.

For inviting → /squadinvite player name.
For joining → /squadjoin commander name.

The commander can restrict both, may be that’s the reason you cant invite or join sometimes.

roelvanesch.2817:

Keyang.3729:

can a thief tank?

DD tank would be better against bosses with higher damage and lower attack speed imo, you cant keep up the dodges forever.

Im not sure, but may be a daredevil with invigorating presition, signet of malice and 1 or 2 pieces of armor with thoughness everything else berserker could tank it without losing that much damage.

I have waited more tan 48 hours andar I still don’t have the gems.

If you have a norn, bear form is easy mode for that room.

Evan Lesh.3295:

I still don’t think using MMR directly is a good idea for a leaderboard, but I fully understand why people would want it: It is perceived as a better indicator of skill most of the time.

Here is why it doesn’t work well:
Random jumps: Glicko is used to make the best match possible. It does this by adjusting quickly which can result in very large jumps up and down before settling.
No Decay: We can’t decay MMR directly, which causes the problem of people sitting inactive at the top of the leaderboard.

Our best bet is to create a system that lives side-by-side with the Glicko MMR. The original system does its thing and makes good matches while the new one can be a new algorithm, or a filtered glicko algorithm to give us more friendly numbers without negatively affecting matchmaking.

Thoughts?

This can be solved by having short seasons (1 month seasons) and setting a minimum number of games to play per season to appear in the leaderboards for that season, like 50 games.

So you reset the leaderboards every month but keep the mmr of players. The minimun number of games would prevent people from not playing and getting in the leaderboards and also to adjust their position accordingly.

And also reduce the volatility for not playing to avoid people from playing only the last week and boosting their mmr. If their skill level really decreased the mmr should adjust fast even without volatility, and it s very unlikely that someone improves without playing.

I don’t think it s good to have a high volatility for not playing in a month. I think that the skill level of someone doesnt change much from not playing in a month, even 2 months, because there are very few balance patches, and even if there s a balance patch, they just need to read the patch notes to see what changed.

Doggie.3184:

Even if it worked, playing without a mouse would horribly kitten you. Not sure how MMO keybinds work nowadays with controllers so dunno how you’d hotkey everything~ still you need dat mouse for movement, especually for pvp~ otherwise Thief forums get more uncalled for QQing cuz people have a bad setup for controls… ;s

Edit: wow I can’t believe that… G word that rhymes with Pimp is censored naow…

You don’t need the mouse for movement. You can easily map mouse movement + click to a joystick with xpadder, you can even adjust the sensibility and speed. For skills and utilities and everything that you need you can use combination of buttons in the gamepad you have more than enough for this game.

This game is easy to play and map with a gamepad as long as you do a good and comfortable mapping.

I honestly like the changes, there are many builds that look strong for pvp and w vs w now that stats wont be tied to traits.

I think that DA+SA+Trickery or even SA+ Acro + trickery for a more survival build will be very good and may be DA + CS + X for a very bursty character.

DA + Acro + trickery also sounds good. There are more builds that seems good than what we have now.

Probably in PVE it will be DA + CS + trickery

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Odyssey.2613:

Guarded Intention will only be good once, maybe twice in a fight.

Maybe.

I can envision Hard to catch being procced at the very start of the fight and not kicking in when you need that endurance.

Proc-ing HtC means it just prevented a disable — how is that a bad thing?

Swindler’s doesn’t look that great. Yeah, so-so for sword but that’s where it ends.

Just like Dagger Training is for daggers and Ricochets are for pistols. We never had a trait that benefits Sword wielder before.

Don’t Stop is kind of vague. Depends on what periodically means. I assume it amounts to 1 extra evade every 2-3 seconds for projectiles.

“Periodically” is used due to the internal cooldown of 5s.

What we needed was some condi cleanse tied to dodging or evading, which we didn’t get.

Of course not. That good of a trait is reserved for Warriors.

I think that when they hinted about a trait that will remove a condition on dodge, it was for thief specialization, but who knows, only time will tell us.

Lexiceta.4156:

Throw out the MMR totally, that way everyone plays everyone make ladder based on Win% for both team and solo, with a nominal minimum game requirement say 1K or so. That would be fair to all.

1k is too much. If the season lasts 1 month, that’s 33 games per day, 8.25 hours daily on average.If it lasts 2 months it ´s 4 hours daily, that´s still too much.

Lexiceta.4156:

Are you kidding? So opinion is the guy at the top of the leaderboards with a grand total games played of 45 was the best solo player? Ok, well, you Sir. are one of the few that thought so.

There were very few cases like that comparing it to what we have now. Using http://www.gw2score.com/PvP you can see that there are 275 players with less than 50% wins in the actual LB, from those 275 there are 13 with less than 40%.

In the old leaderboards at the end in solo queue there were 66 with less than 50% wins and just 1 with less than 40%. In team queue 69 with less than 50% and 3 withe less than 40%.

From those numbers in the new leaderboards there are 50 players with less than 50% wins in the top 250. In the old leaderbords in solo only 5 and in team queue only 2.

Lexiceta.4156:

Wait MMR leaderboard reset without resetting MMR seems blaintly unfair. So lock people in only certain postions within the leaderboard based on only one season?

It wouln´t be unfair if they adjust the decay properly with permanent decay. They would have to keep playing to keep the position and every season they would have to play the minimum games before being put in the new season leaderboard. 50-100 games (the minimum should be adjusted).

Lexiceta.4156:

MMR based leaderboard system failed horribly lets not go backwards.

They were better, MMR leaderboards just needed a little adjustments.

-Decay needed to be reviewed.
-Put a max limit amount of MMR that you could get or lose in one game.
- Make adjustments in the volatility of the MMR (your skill level won´t change much in 1 week to 1 month of not playing, especially because there are very few balance patches).
-And increase the minimum games required to put you in the leaderboards, may be form 10 to 50 games, no more than 100.
- Reset the leaderboards every month or 2 months but not the MMR. That makes easier to track the progress for people that used to play a lot with a very low %win ratio but got better. Also because even if you win a lot it’s harder to track the progress if you have played many games because the more games you have, the less you will notice in you win ratio when you win or lose.

But right now the leaderboards are really bad. There are even 4 people in the top 25 with less than 50% wins and one of them even less than 40%. And this win ratio only takes in consideration the games from this season so games from the past can´t be an excuse.

It was a nice and fun map, too bad it was removed.

Harvest.2506:

Phaeton.9582:

try getting better mmr then….

surely the topic title is just troll bait..

I think anyone above 50% is pretty reasonable. I don’t see you on the Leaderboard page so I don’t think you’re in any position to discuss my MMR. I’m talking about things we can’t control. Its not balance and coming down to luck on team composition rather than skill.

You have 773 games in a month, that s like 5-6 hours of pvp per day, not many people have that much free time, as you can see the leaderboards now are just a grind, you only have 51.62 % win ratio. There are even people in the top ten with less than 50% wins.

You can have a low MMR as Pheaton said despite being on the leaderboards.

Also everyone in this post is in a position to talk about your MMR since you are putting your “credentials” as an evidence, but it is very clear that the actual leaderboards don’t have a correlation with skill Or MMR.

Harvest.2506:

Brigg.6189:

much troll

Senpai please, to what do you attribute such glorious ranking?

Bunking knowing when to attack, or disengage. mostly common sense, and rezzing dead teammates. Lots of rezzes.

Im not sure if you realize that Brigg was being sarcastic (or at least it seems like sarcasm). Your position in the leaderboards only means thay you play a lot.

Since we have mega servers now, may be they can do something like DC Universe Online. So you can choose to be in open world pvp mega servers or non pvp mega servers. And they should let players to change any time they want between pvp and non pvp servers so the players won´t be stuck in a mode if they want to play different.

Thaddeus.4891:

500 Dragonite Ore : Do silverwaste for a couple of hours, just to see the new content and you should have all of it. Maybe do some world boss and boom done.
500 Empyreal and Bloodstone Dust : You should already have that, its everywhere.
30 Obsidian Shard : That so little. You will have it while doing Dragonite Ore in SW, or you should have enough karma for it.
20 Skill points : Easy
160 Wool Scrap : 5.36 gold
80 Cotton Scrap : 2.70 gold
160 Linen Scrap : 7.68 gold
10 Gossamer Scrap : You should have that, just by salvaging
450 Iron Ore : Gallowfields Waypoint (Brisban Wildands)1 rich iron vein and like 3-4 vein. Go there once a day. It will take you at max 18 days with 1 character. 9 days with 2 character. 6 days with 3 characters.
200 Platinum : Rata Pten (Mount Maelstrom) 1-2 Rich and 2-4 vein. Same as Iron, but here it will take at max 10 days with 1 character.
500 Mithril ore : shouldn’t be a problem with salvaging
14 Glob of Ecto : Shouldn’t be a problem with salvaging
180 Spool of Goassamer : 1.15 gold
250 Thermocatalytic Reagent 3.74 gold
5 fine Tier 6 : Shouldn’t be a problem
20 Pile of Crystalline dust : shouldn’t be a problem
5 Glob of Dark Matter : Shouldn’t be a problem
1200 Silk Scrap : 20.4 gold
Leveling Armorsmith 0-500 : 61.79 gold.

Total : 102.82 gold should be the maximum gold you will have to use. Probably less than that. That’s 15 hours of dungeons. Do 1 hours of dungeon + Iron + Platinum everytime you play during 2 weeks and you have your ascended chest. Maybe do Silverwaste for a couples of hours if you need dragonite and that’s it. Not that hard if you know what you are doing. Now if you want to craft a second piece? That’s will only be 41 gold so 6 hours of dungeons. And keep in mind that’s for doing 2 Ascended chest. Do Pauldrons and Greaves and you will divided by 5 your numbers of mythrilium while keeping the same amount of AR.

In my opinion that’s too expensive for a single piece of armor. Before fractured I used to play fractals and pvp a lot, 99% of my game time was in those 2 modes. After fractured i got my level reseted so I had to level up again and it took me a very long time to get enough AR to play lv 50.

AR is only required for fotm but you cant get enough AR only through fractals unless you get lucky with the drops or waiting a very long time getting the mats and gold there and even if you get it you have to get out of fractals to level up crafting which was a real pain for me, I hate crafting but we have to do it if we want to progress in fotm.

Getting dragonite ore was also really annoying and slow for me, at that time you couldnt get dragonite in pvp like now, I had to leave fractals and pvp to farm dragonite so i could get more AR.

Even when i got the dragonite i still didnt have enough gold.

I used my credit card to get the remaining gold needed. It sucked but I rather pay than grind content that I dont like at all.

I think they should add ascended armor and weapons in fotm with a level restriction to be able to buy them. But that’s just my opinion.

Anyway getting the 70 AR wasnt fun for me and it was very tedious.

lil devils x.6071:

Mouseheart.8672:

lil devils x.6071:

Mouseheart.8672:

lil devils x.6071:

oneply.9586:

last night i started getting really annoyed with the map selector, 4-5 games in a row on this dang map. it only ever happens when i play ranked q. so boring to do the same map over and over again.

@lil devils
Player vs Player
Whats not pvp about conquest maps?

Player vs Player is KILLING other players, Player vs Environment is interacting with the environment. When the environmental elements are the primary focus it is a PVE centered game with PVP elements, you can kill players to win, but it is not necessary to win. That isn’t full PVP. The only full PVP map they have is courtyard, the rest are PVE maps with PVP elements.

So, wait, the VS in PvP is killing, but the VS in PvE is interacting. Now, that doesn’t make sense. What does the VS in WvW stand for? I hope it stands for dance off. Yes. That would be nice.

Wvw was adverstised as having pve in it, so you expect it to be there.

My point – aside from being kittening hilarious – was that the versus in Player versus Player (PvP) and Player versus Environment (PvE) does not have some fixed meaning. The versus in PvP does not only stand for killing, it stands for killing, engaging, interacting, outsmarting, outplaying, out-rotating and so on. So no, you do not have “pve inside pvp, because you can fire a treb on Khylo or channel a buff on temple”, because these things are ultimately done to win a match against another team.

Its like saying tennis is not PvP because you’re only hitting a ball!

Of course words have multiple meaning, but in regards to rpgs, most people understand pvp to mean pking. they can be used as synonyms for one another.

If a word is a synonym for the other, people assume that to be one of the meanings of the word.

If most people understand pvp to mean pking there would be someone agreeing with you already. But at least in this post everyone has disagreed with you by now.

lil devils x.6071:

BlueDragon.7054:

lil devils x.6071:

MOST people who have played many computer RPGS , yes, because that is what they called it in all of them. SO much so, they added it to wiki for a reason. If I were playing candy crush, I would expect them to not know what people meant by pvp.. but not in an mmorpg.

Since I have played most mmorpgs past and present and in every single one of them they called player killing pvp, yea I expect the same would apply here, since this is a mmorpg as well.

The wiki also says “Player killing, or PKing, is non-consensual PvP”…..

Really there is no such thing as non consensual fighting in guild wars because there are safe zones, pk in that usage is for games without safe zones.. LOL

That means that in mmorpg context player killing is not synonym of pvp and you were generalizing the term pvp for pc mmorpg games. In mmorpg games the term pk is used also in games that have safe zones as long as not all the zones are safe.

lil devils x.6071:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

lil devils x.6071:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

lil devils x.6071:

Roe.3679:

oneply.9586:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

lil devils x.6071:

Guardian of Angels.9867:

lil devils x.6071:

SobeSoul.6910:

lil devils x.6071:

SobeSoul.6910:

Considering Forest and Foefire are the only maps with PvE elements lol

No, they just have more pve elements, Courtyard is the only one without them. IF one team is focused on fighting and not capping, the other team can win easily by not fighting. YOU can stun/ bind/ knock back to win as well, and not even kill a single player.

Khylo has no PvE elements. Neither does Temple.

There’s a difference between objectives in a map and PvE.

If the objectives are environmental, it is still player vs environment.
You still have to cap rings to win though, so I see those rings as environmental factors.

And the fact you fight other players over rings doesn’t matter?
It’s PvE because it’s Conquest…

I won’t bother you anymore, but please don’t be surprised if players disagree with you on that.

Even the gamedesigners disagree on you with that

You don’t have to fight players over rings is the issue, not everyone plays that way. I had them run away the whole game.. IF that can happen and they still get points, that is PVE, not PVP. You should not be able to score without killing for it to be considered full pvp. It is PVE with pvp elements when scoring is based on environmental factors rather than killing players.
That isn’t to say it isn’t competitive play, it just isn’t full out player killing.

I agree, but PvP isn’t the definition of players Killing other players.

Wiki quote:
“Player(s) versus player(s), or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants”

It states conflict, not the act of killing the other players.

So you might not enjoy it, the facts state it’s PvP wether the enemy has to be killed or not. So in conquest the conflict resolves about who’s controlling the rings.

Like WvW, which has a conflict over rings aka Towers/Keeps

talking to a brick wall isnt really worth it.
he has his own personal definition of what pvp is and therefore no matter what the REAL definition is he wont accept it.

plus what i find funny is by his concept of pve then everything is pve and pvp doesnt exist in any game anywhere. cause every game takes place in an environment that is not player controlled. /headmeetwall

Their stance is just that only deathmatch is pvp, even though it’s just a mode among pvp, whether it is MMOs or first person shooters or whatever.

pvp = player killing became popular in rpgs primarily, and then carried over to FPS, and other genres.

Actually, the wiki states:
" In computer role-playing games, PvP is sometimes called player killing or PKing."

This means that it’s not a fact, but players prefer calling it like that.
Though, GW2 doesn’t call PvP player killing otherwise we’d only have TDM.

It’s nice you’ve found a lot of other games that do fit within your idea of PvP.
Guild Wars does not fit in it, so yay to you but you’re wrong.

At least regarding GW2.

That is like saying that " sometimes a dude is referring to a guy…"

If that is what many people understand it to be, that is what they expect.

You’re just assuming some words holds your definition, because you agree that most people think the same way as you.

Just because it might be popular to some, doesn’t mean it counts for the entire population.

You should start a thread in WvW, how WvW is actually PvE because of your definition. Wonder how that will turn out

MOST people who have played many computer RPGS , yes, because that is what they called it in all of them. SO much so, they added it to wiki for a reason. If I were playing candy crush, I would expect them to not know what people meant by pvp.. but not in an mmorpg.

Since I have played most mmorpgs past and present and in every single one of them they called player killing pvp, yea I expect the same would apply here, since this is a mmorpg as well.

The wiki also says “Player killing, or PKing, is non-consensual PvP”…..

lil devils x.6071:

Roe.3679:

lil devils x.6071:

oneply.9586:

last night i started getting really annoyed with the map selector, 4-5 games in a row on this dang map. it only ever happens when i play ranked q. so boring to do the same map over and over again.

@lil devils
Player vs Player
Whats not pvp about conquest maps?

Player vs Player is KILLING other players, Player vs Environment is interacting with the environment. When the environmental elements are the primary focus it is a PVE centered game with PVP elements, you can kill players to win, but it is not necessary to win. That isn’t full PVP. The only full PVP map they have is courtyard, the rest are PVE maps with PVP elements.

In courtyard you can get one kill and perma stealth the team as time runs out. Is that pvp? Objectives to fight over don’t make things automatically PVE.

It does when those objectives are in the environment by definition of what PVE means. Player vs environment is exactly that.

If the player is forced to kill the other players to win, that is pvp, that isn’t the case with any map but courtyard.

Player vs Player is player AGAINST other player, it doesn’t necessarily mean killing them. Even Mario Kart is a pvp game if you play it online or in the local vs mode.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlueDragon.7054:

foste.3098:

Warcry.1596:

Invig Precision, my favorite trait, is receiving a nice buff

Yes, i love that stupid trait, though i still think the way to make it on par with the other two is to make it give you a passive bonus to precision in addition to the on crit heal.

Still can’t complain about this buff it is stronk, the trait will probably be useful in dungeons where executioner is not too noticeable like cleaving weak mobs that die fast anyway or the first two subject alpha encounters where he escapes at ~40% hp.
In situations like those having the heals to keep up your scholar rune might be better than executioner, maybe, possibly.

UPDATE WITH NO THIEF NERFS, CANTHA CONFIRMED!!!!11

For max damage it won’t be better than executioner even if you can maintain +90% of your health 100% of the fight. 20% more damage 50% of the time is equivalent to 10% more damage 100% of the time. So with executioner you have the equivalent of + 10% damage for the whole fight + 10% damage while you have more than 90% health from the scholar runes.

But that’s assuming that you never get downed in the fight.

You can’t really think about it that way because the trait does nothing for the most part of the fight.

What Executioner gives you is nothing until you manage to get your target down to 50%. You either get 0% damage boost or 20% damage boost. That’s not equivalent to 10% damage boost.

The only time you would benefit from Executioner is during a boss fight where your team mates bring down the boss below 50% and only you would begin to shine — but before that, you’re a liability.

In general the dps is equivalent. For example:

For 10 seconds and 1000 dps (base)

With +10% damage 100% of the time,

1000 dps *1.10 = 1100 dps

1100* 10s = 11000 damage in 10 seconds

For the first 5 seconds with no damage boost

1000 dps * 5s = 5000 damage

The last 5 seconds with +20% damage

1000 dps *1.20 = 1200
1200dps *5s = 6000 damage

Damage in 10 seconds = 5000 + 6000 = 11000

Of course that’s considering the time it takes you to damage the boss from 100 to 50 and 50 to 0 is the same, but still it’s a good aproximation. Although there are many factors to consider like the might stacks, downed people, etc.