Guess i’m late to the party, haven’t played wvw since shortly after the DBL were introduced so had no idea about the existence of this poll nor about the reintroduction of alpine borders.
And i suppose this also exposes a flaw in the poll they did.
Most people still following GW2 wvw were going to be people that are more favourable towards the DBLs, the people that absolutely hate those borders are long gone.
So while this poll may be fair to those still playing, keeping the DBLs around is not going to help WvW regain former players.
If the borders are going to be used for weekly rotations, then in my case i might play when it’s Alpine, and i’ll sit out the weeks when it’s DBL.
After the HoT fiasco it has also become very clear to players that resistance is futile.
Anet doesn’t negotiate, they just do as they please and feedback is meaningless.
They will never get the amount of quality feedback anymore that they have gotten in the past. This will seriously hamper any attempt to restore WvW to what it should be if they ever intend to (not likely anyway).
Thing is, WvW used to be fun for everyone.
Big guilds, small guilds, hardcore guilds, casual pug zergs, roamers, scouts, …
They all had a place and function and people played that way cause it’s the way they wanted to play.
Now you have to join a big guild, buy HoT and beef up on ascended gear, and maybe you’ll get some action occasionally if you’re lucky to run into an enemy group.
A mesmer isn’t exactly good for PvE.
You need multiple skills to synergize before you can get good damage going.
There are hardly any mesmer skills that give you direct damage output, and the ones that do are underwhelming. And you don’t have proper AoE either.
Maybe Chrono is better but i don’t have HoT.
And i don’t really play PvE anymore either since with a mesmer it’s quite a chore unless you fight an elite mob where your skills start to be useful.
Neither of those.
Instead they should fix WvW so that more people actually want to play it.
For starters undoing everything they changed with HoT.
Make WvW more rewarding.
Make it possible for small and big wvw guilds to apply upgrades on claimed objectives without breaking the bank. These should be earned in WvW, not PvE.
Allow all stat sets to be purchasable with badges of honor.
How stupid is it that even now the only jewelry that can be bought with badges is PVT.
Balance the elite specs and revenant so that they are an addition to the game rather than a straight upgrade.
If you plan on coming back, i’d say this might be the last chance to still see WvW with some people in it if you are on a high tier server.
If nothing changes then the game mode will bleed out over the next few months and there really won’t be anything left to come back to.
Just don’t waste money on HoT.
It would be so awesome that it will probably never happen.
But really WvW is terrible right now.
Playing with a vanilla character is downright suicide.
It’s the only clue we have about them actually noticing the existence of the thread at all.
Unfortunately they didn’t even take any effort to dispute the validity of the leaks, which is even more unsettling.
And Devon’s reply doesn’t count, he was only guessing as he doesn’t work at Anet anymore.
Your definition seems quite off, you merely described pure GvG guildmembers in WvW.
WvW is more than just fights, and it’s also more than just ppt, it’s the balanced combination of the two.
As a WvW player you should care if you win.
You should also thus care about the score and the ppt.
But, these things should not be in the way of having fun.
If winning and ppt can only be obtained by pvd (and you prefer fights) then the gamemode will feel inadequate to the player.
Ideally you want to earn points by fighting the opponent, taking their keeps while they try to defend it bravely because they put a lot of effort into upgrading it (no longer the case). This elevates the game from a mere on screen point-tally to a personal and psychological battle.
You want to fight the opponent, not a number.
At the moment the game is mostly a ppt battle, more so than before HoT because there’s hardly any connection anymore between players and objectives, it’s all npc run now.
You won’t demoralize anyone anymore by flipping their T3 garrison (rampart), which makes the game feel empty.
I remember quite a few very long sieges in Bay, usually where you defend a T3 bay on an enemy border. Trying to hold it with a skeleton crew during daytime, holding out until reinforcements (primetime) is there to relieve the siege.
Because a T3 keep on an enemy border was a big thing, you knew people had put effort and time in upgrading and defending it, and that only strengthened the resolve to keep defending it.
It wasn’t about ppt, it was about some form of prestige, and being a thorn in the enemy’s side.
Similarly, holding your home garrison was something important. When garrison falls, you lost (not necessarily ppt wise).
But now? I couldn’t be bothered if our whole border is overrun, it isn’t our border anyway, npcs own and care for it.
Couldn’t they just give the desert borderland to the PvE people?
Add a huge fire dragon in the earth keep, some air elemental in the air keep, etc. with some big loot. They will be happy.
Then give us back the old borders, we’ll be happy.
I doubt there ever were Devs at all for WvW post release.
Just look at what they did on it so far, does that looks like something you can even employ 1 person with for 3 years?
Looking at their previous statements about WvW players being PvE players and all that i can only assume that whatever happened with WvW was just a side project from PvE devs who don’t take it seriously.
Hence the reason why they have no clue what the WvW community wants, and why there isn’t any Dev responses here.
I didn’t pre-order HoT, nor did i even buy it as it offers me nothing.
My only interest in GW2 was WvW which they slowly destroyed over the course of 3 years and killed it with HoT.
So no i will not pre-order or order any new Anet/NcSoft products anymore, unless they change their ways, which is very unlikely.
WvW doesn’t even need rewards, although they would be nice if implemented right.
Things were fine before world ranks, at least people played cause they liked the game mode and liked fights. The Wexp chests brought in karmatraining (or Wexp training) which made less people play on defense, only a handful of people still did dedicated defense and scouting.
Either way, now it’s even worse as there’s nothing left to defend.
Those desert borders aren’t even our borders anymore, they are owned and cared for by npcs.
They had something nice and they didn’t want it.
Would have been better if they just kept ignoring WvW completely for 3 years, at least then they couldn’t have done anything wrong.
Anyway, once a new game with properly cared for WvW/RvR is released there won’t be any dedicated WvW players anymore in GW2 and Anet will get exactly what they want.
If only they had the courtesy to at least wait for such a game to be released before pestering unwanted players.
I’m going to sticky this thread, with John’s consent, because we feel it contains valuable information that forum members may wish to read.
I’d say it mostly contains valuable information that the Devs should read (counts for the whole forum actually).
Specifically the ones that make the decisions, because it is very clear there is a disconnect between players and dev designers when it comes to WvW.
If Anet really cared about WvW i’m fairly sure we would have noticed it in the past 3 years.
Honestly, they made so many changes to WvW that are the complete opposite of what WvW really needed that they almost seemed to intentionally screw up the game mode.
Either that or none of the Anet employees that make the decisions has ever played WvW in even a semi dedicated way.
Quick and cheap fix:
Bring WvW back to the state it was during alpine 1.0, and apart from bug fixes ignore the game mode for ever so no harm can ever be done to it.
Even if there were plenty of people playing, the maps are so big you would hardly ever meet.
2 zergs could miss each other even if they are in the same keep.
They should have just scrapped the whole border idea and instead created a new equal 3way map like EB, preferably 2 such maps.
That way it’s easy to scale the amount of maps according to server population.
Low tiers could be fine with only EB, higher tiers get an extra map, gold tier would possibly need 3 maps.
Things would sort of be similar to PS2.
As someone who was still on the fence about getting the expansion and after hearing what it’s really all about, i guess i could only come to this conclusion:
50 dollars for eternal grinding? … I’d be happier with the dollars.
The new borders certainly cut any ties people had with the game mode (except for EB).
Who now cares when a tower or keep falls?
Most likely you’d never even be in time to save it anyway, so no point in even putting up scouts since backup would arrive too late.
Also, who cares if Rampart on your border flips?
On the old borders Garri was pretty much the last line that you would defend til the end and even call people from other borders to help out.
I remember doing allnighters to defend it a long time ago, especially if it was T3 and fully sieged up.
Now? I really couldn’t care less to defend or scout, which was pretty much the one thing i did the most in WvW.
Imagine the conversation on TS.
Jump into EB TS
-“Need help on home border, blob attacking Rampart”
*crickets *
*crickets *
*crickets *
-“What’s Rampart?”
I used to go back to GW2 every now and then to play around a bit in WvW. Scouting on my usual places, upgrading stuff, placing siege weapons on strategic places, etc. for old times sake.
Now i don’t really feel like going back anymore.
I just don’t have the time to learn all intricacies of these new maps from scratch.
Are there going to be any public tests for the map before it’s too late to adapt things according to the feedback?
Cause while the map is going to be released at the same time as HoT, it’s not really part of HoT since it’s being released to everyone. Would be unfortunate if the only way to test is with special invites, or in BWE open only to people who bought HoT.
From what i have read so far, though i’ve been out of the loop for a while, it doesn’t seem like buying the expansion really brings anything to WvW.
The biggest thing is that we are getting a new map, but you will get it whether you buy the expansion or not.
Other than that it seems mostly pve stuff, more things to grind for, more mobs and bosses with silly mechanics, etc. Hardly seems like it’s worth it’s price for a wvw player.
Oh, and ESO doesn’t have a subscription anymore, that’s been gone for a while now.
But it’s RvR is pretty dead, and it makes gw2 WvW look like a perfectly balanced game.
Ever since they introduced ferocity celestial isn’t really any good anymore unless in maybe very very rare circumstances.
I still have mine equipped cause i barely played last half a year or so.
But i can definitely feel that my damage output dropped significantly ever since the change. I simply don’t do enough damage anymore to put pressure on the opponent.
So i wouldn’t recommend the set unless you really know what you are going for.
Changing the points earned according to the tier might work.
For example T1 would be 7,5,3 for 1st, 2nd,third
T2 6,4,2
T3 5,3,1
This would make it for example that being 2nd twice in a row in T1 earns you more points than being 3rd in T1 + 1st in T2.
The difference isn’t much, 10 points against 9, but it’s enough to differentiate between servers and make the stronger server earn more points, but also not create such a huge gap so that the weaker server still has a chance of fighting back later in the season.
RoF doesn’t really belong in the Silver league but we’ve run out of opponents in the Bronze league. Hopefully we don’t just get run over every night. That wont be fun.
With the new way the league works only the first 2 weeks or so may be difficult for RoF because you may still face some of the top silver servers.
But after that you will mostly face servers with points similar to yours.
So you’ll mostly be facing FR and DL, and every now and then some server from a bit higher up.
You prolly wont have to fight Piken, Gandara, GH or FSP at all in the second half of the season.
Unless RoF does a lot better than what we expect offcourse.
It’s too bad AG is loosing so many people.
I don’t understand why people started leaving since the server seemed pretty strong and was one of the contenders for winning silver league. But i haven’t been paying attention to any server politics or anything for a long time now so maybe i missed something.
Anyway i hope AG can hold on to the bottom half of silver, because you’re an awesome server to play against.
It will be an interesting season in silver this time. With no server being a clear favourite, 4 servers seem to have a change at winning, Piken, Gunnars, FSP and gandara.
Drakkar, AM and AG are probably gonna come short but will still put up a fight.
FR and RoF seem to be far behind the rest if the ratings are any indication, but with the new season system i’m sure they can have their fun aswell since they won’t be playing against the top silver servers that often.
Why don’t you look at what is happening with NA? your cool community and blah blah might be working for you on your specific server or EU, but the other half the game it is not working too well.
Well even if the community in NA is that horrible to you, that doesn’t give it any reason just wishing to dissolve everything just so you would feel better.
Why would WvW need to be changed into EoTM anyway.
People who are in a blowout match or hate their server can go to EoTM if they enjoy it so much more. If you don’t care about servers there’s no reason for wanting WvW anyway.
For each his own, everyone has something.
Our server has been on both ends of the spectrum when it comes to rolling or getting rolled.
FSP used to be a T1 EU server, until many guilds left.
But we kept fighting, even until we ended up in T7.
The nice thing about the tier system is, if you’re too bad for top tier, eventually you will drop down and fight servers you can handle.
Is it perfect? by no means, but you win some you loose some, that’s the way it goes.
In EoTM there is no winning or loosing, there’s just kitten ing around, it’s an empty brainless CoD style gamemode which has actually very little in common with the current wvw gamemode.
Really if the red vs blue vs green gamestyle was the best thing ever, the wvw maps would have been empty now, but they are not.
So you want to fix server imbalance by neutering the whole competitive side of wvw and create a situation where there is nothing to fight for anymore? Because that is what EoTM is at this moment.
Just because a bunch of gvg guilds resort to switching servers every month doesn’t mean that there are no communities on these servers.
You want people to give up on organised ts channels?
You want people to just get scattered across dozens of randomly selected red vs blue vs green karmatrain maps?
You want people to just dissolve their server forums and websites?
The only people who would still be playing wvw after such a change will be those same gvg guilds that didn’t care about what server they fought on anyway.
Maybe your server has horrible people and you don’t interact with people from a guild other than your own, but i can assure you that is not the case for the majority of the people who play wvw on a regular basis.
Servers aren’t shackles, they are communities.
Having wvw like it is now in EoTM at release might have been possible, now however it is much too late for such a change.
I would definitely quit playing if that ever happened.
EoTM is fine to just jump in for half an hour or so, but it’s just karmatraining.
No reason to defend anything, no reason to care about a score.
The map is overly cluttered and simply annoying to traverse.
The only place where there is some open space for a skirmish is the blue corner, but then you have turrets ruining any flow of combat.
There is absolutely no bond whatsoever between player and map.
It’s pretty much a mix of everything thats wrong in wvw, pve and pvp.
I wasn’t talking about tiers there, but about ranks.
Matchups where all servers are close in ranking score will be nearly random when it comes to what colour they get.
Matchups where there is a big gap in ranking score will nearly always have highest green, middle blue and lowest red.
This week for example there is only 1 matchup where the lowest rank is green, and that’s because all three are close in rankings. And 13 matchups have the lowest rank as red.
Just saying that the colour should be completely random and should not depend your rating for the sake of variation.
Matchups where there is a big gap in ranking score will nearly always have highest green, middle blue and lowest red.
EU has exactly ZERO cases of your described scenario. The proof is basic arithmetic, and is attached here. We don’t even need to run the match-up prediction code 100,000 times and aggregate the results for this one.
The new values allow for adjustments as much as (devation * 0.45 + 10), capped at 100. In both cases, the roll is plus-or-minus these values multiplied by a random real value in the range (-1,1).
You can stop worrying now! It’s just the observer’s bias talking!
You seem to be missing the point of why i started this thread.
My issue is not with who is matched up with who, it’s only about what colours servers are assigned to in the matchup.
Colours now are somewhat random, but as i said many times before, in matchups where the is a big gap in server rating between the servers, very often will the highest ranked server be green, the middle is blue and the lowest is red.
You say there are no matchups like this? look at T6-T9 in EU.
All servers have quite big gaps in rating and are assigned colours as i said.
If you look at servers like Vabbi, they are almost always red.
Sanctum of Rall is pretty much always red atm because of rating gaps with the other T1 servers.
What my point is:
Once the matchups have been determined, have the colours be randomized with 1/3 chance of each colour for every server in a matchup.
You can hardly call them an AI anyway.
They just attack with a set interval, and run into range when they are too far away.
Even a single cell organism has a bigger ‘to do list’ in its life.
CI works great on staff.
Chaos storm may be just random daze and may or may not interrupt.
But in wvw, people are rarely in a hurry to dodge or run out of chaos storm because it hits like a wet noodle. Placing chaos on a bunch of enemies in wvw pretty much guarantees a few interrupts. The strength of chaos storm there gets multiplied by the immobilize which places the enemy in the aoe even longer.
In any matchup, the higher rank has most chance to be green, the middle rank blue, and the lowest rank red. This is clearly visible in matchups where there are big gaps in ratings.
That’s just not true. The matching calculation does not consider tier, so the likelihood that ranks 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, and 22 will be green… well, the fact that they are at that position is irrelevant.
It is very likely that ranks 1, 2, and 3 will fight each other. It is much less likely that they will be sorted as 1, 2, 3. It is very unlikely that the majority of the leaderboard will be sorted that way, as you are concerned about.
A server’s chance to be at a certain color is decided by how nearly equal its ranking score is to the servers nearest to it on the leaderboard, as well as its volatility (the amount it tends to move in rank over time). Then randomness is factored in as well.
We have fairly often seen Tier 1 and others fight each other while being shuffled in color (rank 3 green, rank 2 blue, rank 1 red, for instance).
I wasn’t talking about tiers there, but about ranks.
Matchups where all servers are close in ranking score will be nearly random when it comes to what colour they get.
Matchups where there is a big gap in ranking score will nearly always have highest green, middle blue and lowest red.
This week for example there is only 1 matchup where the lowest rank is green, and that’s because all three are close in rankings. And 13 matchups have the lowest rank as red.
Just saying that the colour should be completely random and should not depend your rating for the sake of variation.
I’m not sure if this issue has been brought up yet.
But as it is now, the colour you will play as in wvw is still very dependent on your rank and rating
In any matchup, the higher rank has most chance to be green, the middle rank blue, and the lowest rank red. This is clearly visible in matchups where there are big gaps in ratings.
I suggest that for the sake of giving people variation, both in wvw and EoTM, the colour you start as at reset should be completely randomized.
So the first randomization determines what servers you are teamed up with.
After this is done, a second randomization picks your colour, this should be a totally unbiased randomization so that every week you have 1/3 chance of being any colour.
This would give servers that are somewhat locked into their rank and tier more variation in what side they play as in wvw and EoTM.
I know they did, they showed some awesome dedication for their server.
Just would not call pvd-ing great fights =)
Maybe he was referring to the whole week, not just today.
Anyway good work from FSP, after 2 weeks of losing in the last day the reverse happened for once
Too bad i didnt have much time to play this week.
Also nice to see how our keep in EB didn’t get capped once.
