Not long. Got killed by more than a few Rapid Fire + Quickening Zephyr Rangers already. Decided to give it a shot myself and yeah, 10 – 12k damage in 1 second is pretty brutal.
Rapid fire + QZ is easier to dodge than eviscerate, backstab, and all the other hard hitting skills. I doubt this would get nerfed especially considering the skills I listed have always been able to hit that high, especially eviscerate.
lol what? we have soft CC all over, it shreds blocks/blinds, is more spammable than evis and less predicatable than backstab and is 1500 range… combine that with a free GM trait (pre patch signet of the beastmaster gave ranger its strongest burst… but almost no one used it because it took a lot of investment and was a one trick pony) and its ridiculous
im on hiatus until ranger gets fixed, old beastmaster was never anywhere near this OP
It shreds blocks and blinds but is wrecked by one reflect, and if they aren’t immobolized its easier to dodge than it used to be ( the inevitable “nerf” that comes with decreasing the cast time).
i wouldnt say it being easier to dodge is a nerf when it pretty much means you’re still doing the same amount of damage as pre patch dodging half of rapid fire… except if they dont dodge then they’re kittened
and i couldnt consider projectile reflect as a consistant counter because of its poor distribution and rangers easy disengage (or hit you with a barrage/swap weapon) and unreliable uptime except for mes/warr (even then its extremely limiting build wise)
Not long. Got killed by more than a few Rapid Fire + Quickening Zephyr Rangers already. Decided to give it a shot myself and yeah, 10 – 12k damage in 1 second is pretty brutal.
Rapid fire + QZ is easier to dodge than eviscerate, backstab, and all the other hard hitting skills. I doubt this would get nerfed especially considering the skills I listed have always been able to hit that high, especially eviscerate.
lol what? we have soft CC all over, it shreds blocks/blinds, is more spammable than evis and less predicatable than backstab and is 1500 range… combine that with a free GM trait (pre patch signet of the beastmaster gave ranger its strongest burst… but almost no one used it because it took a lot of investment and was a one trick pony) and its ridiculous
im on hiatus until ranger gets fixed, old beastmaster was never anywhere near this OP
Longbow allows for the laziest playstyle ever. Autoattack afk bots when all their skills are on cd, then skill spam no matter what each skill does.
Majority of rangers never learned anything else than spamming their skills as soon as they are off cooldown. How often do you see a ranger in pve dodge, they rotate pets to keep agro, no need for to learn other game mechanics. No wonder when they come into contact with other classes, they don’t give kitten and just continue to pew pew.
So when a ranger knockbacks mob/enemy in wvw away from me, I just let them deal with it themselves and I walk away. That enemy wvwer gonna kill you? Great
odd assumption that people play the same in pve as in pvp/wvw
every class has braindead players (slow reaction, slow movement, standing in fields pointlessly, shooting reflects, wasting CDs on enemy blocks, not using mouse to turn, stealthing points etc) in pvp (personally i find the most common is warror/thief… but that may be just because i see a ton of them in hotjoin – yes i play a lot of hotjoin; less stress than arenas)
PBS (seems to) shoot faster than any other skill; near instantly (hunters shot is fast too; but low damage) meaning its often superior to long range shot if you’re trying to get a tag before something dies
does it make me an kitten? yes… but i got loot, so i can deal with it
Concentration Training also requires you to be in combat, so it’s not useful to prepare Fury before combat starts.
its worse than that… (atleast when i tested it a few weeks ago) the pet needs to be in combat; meaning if you swap into moa and use furious screech without the moa hitting anything/getting hit then concentration training wont take effect (despite you being in combat)
bad guards (soooo many things) and bad mesmers (GS campers, pointless cc usage, not using focus on projectile heavy bosses and covering up fields with feedback when feedback is useless against the enemies)
you can teleport to anywhere you can walk to without minor obstruction (for example; if you stand in the middle of the bridge by LA bank WP then you can WP up to the wooden ledge in front of the bank… but if you stand on the small raised bits on each side of the bridge the same teleport will fail)
Just seems silly the amount of stealth / blind / invuln stomps I can pull off with my engi, but ds stomp has to be so complicated. Really wanting to try necro, but I dunno
plague stomp in the middle of an enemy zerg is pretty funny though (not as straight up effective as mist/shrink stomps… but so much more fun)
Dungeon runes are soulbound because ANET want players to run dungeon to get them. That’s why they are dungeon runes. Those soulbound runes you see from drop or MF are just byproducts of the non-descriminating RNG. They drop, but they still carry the property of being dungeon runes — i.e. soulbound.
This will not change. At least I don’t think so.
if they were acc bound players would still have to run dungeons to get them… and im fairly sure a ‘red’ posted on a thread similar to this one about it being weird that they were soulbound (but that was months ago)
racial skills are designed to be comparatively weak so people dont feel pressured into playing certain races (though there are some exceptions… leopard form/hidden pistol is a god send for necros for example… which is bad… because necros are better off being charr/norn)
They only have one general build type in every single game mode: tanky support.
… guardian? lol?
every halfway decent pve guardian runs dps builds (the two metas are sw+focus/x and hammer/x… sw/focus having higher damage -slightly- and blinds, hammer having perma prot – which;imo; is only usefull in certain situations… sw/focus can provide protection bursts when needed with virtues and shouts)… only bad guards play ‘tanky’ (because you can support/control just as effectively as other builds -minus boon duration… which doesnt really matter- except you kill stuff faster… so your team takes less damage)
New 15 point soul reaping trait – gain 5 seconds of switfness when you enter death shroud
… and id hate this as a replacement (nice as an optional trait… but with warhorn and spectral walk i already have perma swiftness in wvw… making it a redundant trait)
would be extremely bad in pve (where lich form is already useless) and wvw… and (granted my spvp experience is far less than the other two aspects) ive never had a problem with lich form users
old trick (probably a bug; but hasnt been touched despite being well known)
sWalk is amazingly fun when being chased by a zerg, lead them off a cliff or activate whilst running away and recall at last second (then run the opposite way)
Barbed Precision lasts 3sec (trait +30% trait line), and will be applied about 1.5 times in the chain of 2.1s just by auto-attack. Let’s just say, in 2 attack chains (about 4s), you apply three 3s bleeds.
Add the fact, that the dagger hits three times as hard in 2/3 of the timeframe of a scepter chain, those 2 bleeds for 6s every 3 secs are not going to outdamage the dagger in matters of auto-attack with rampager gear in open world PvE.
I do not refer to dungeons though, open world is what I am talking about.
2 sec unmodified…
the damage you gain from those few bleeds surely isnt as much as the power/crit dam from berserker would be
your new tool can make our tools useless rather than less effective."
except isnt that the case with dire (and rabid to a lesser extent) condi builds and toughness?
- also ‘your’… i have an ele; i know the class; my mains (because i cant commit myself to one class entirely) are guardian (mainly dungeons – i hate relying on other guards…), necro (wvw, spvp and some pve if i feel like it) and ranger (wvw and most none dungeon pve)
Most of the ele’s heals also remove conditions
heal skills? only ether renewel cleanses (glyph of whatever does only if you have the water GM and cast it in water… but x/x/30/30/x shouldnt really pose a threat)
the only two non-heal heals that i can think of that cleanse are cleansing wave (also evasive arcana… but look… another GM trait) and healing rain (lol staff)
edit i really need to stop starting comments then leaving them half written…
As for Toughness not applying against conditions, that’s how conditions have worked. As you so gleefully point out, condition-applying skills (short of Corrosive Poison Cloud) do actually have a direct damage component
Condition cleansing is a soft counter to condition builds and there, it was a case of “you always had the tools to counter the tools we always had, you just chose not to use them”
…
“you always had the tools to counter the tools we always had, you just chose not to use them”
… like… direct damage?
… and something about condis making toughness worthless…
my necro runs a 30/30/0/10/0 dual dagger build in full rampager in PvE and is a blast.
why rampager with mainhand dagger? its only worth it with scepter or staff offhand
The attack rotation of the dagger is faster (2.1s vs. 3.0s) and the base damage is higher. With rampager gear, I get more bleed proccs over time from dagger and while I won’t get the additional bleed on every attack, I hit harder (about 9 hits in 6s versus only 6 times with a scepter) with every singe attack.
Maybe I am wrong, but it feels like more damage over all. If I have time, I will run the numbers.
barbed precision? 2s bleed (unmodified it wont even last as long as an AA chain) and geomancy>earth(more so because dagger is melee)
10 – 30% =?
Also just go in game and test it out. DS takes 7 seconds to be back up (aka there are 4 seconds of the cooldown left if you go 30 into SR with FitG and NtD.
hah proves how inaccurate my counting seconds is (that or i just counted along with the cooldown numbers sub consciously), just went and used http://www.online-stopwatch.com/countdown-timer/ … mb (i guess i shouldnt trust tooltips even after all the changes)… but still barely makes a difference (still a potential 42.87%-ish uptime)
Inept again shows he is inept by not knowing how the cooldown system works since skill cooldown indicators totally start at the number shown on the cooldown (which would mean each cd is +1) and thinks that 10 -30% is 6…
so… you just ignored those two screenshots? why dont you go have a look in game then come back? (ill re-upload the one you should look at)
Also even a soldier necros hp from DS (if its 100% which it wont be, ever) is still around 21k, unlike a blocks potential of infinity, lets not mention also the fact that evade skills blocks and invuls make you immune to all cc and secondary effects of skills and the weakness of combat mobility.
… where did i say DS was as good as a block or invuln? im saying you can sponge the hits with ease (and build up LF with ease) im struggling to think of a burst that hits 21k (and then the necros base health pool as well)
open world pve – whatever
world bosses – power (zerk… soldiers… whatever)
dungeons – zerk
wvw – either (sort of… id strongly recommend against full zerk)… though i prefer power (currently using a mix of soldier and zerker) because i primarily zerg and stuff dies before condis ramp up
So, when necros *only* method of stopping a combo is a Fear that can’t affect you, how exactly is that balanced?
only... as if you cant dodge or sponge the hits with DS;
The combos that kills us from 100-0 are CC combos, Sponging with DS will not help. Fear is the only defense, other than two dodges (no vigor on the class).
Also, the necromancer has the worst regen, pressure heals in the game and our heals are on long cooldown. This means that unlike many other classes such as those classes that can use scholar runes, this class is usually far below 100% Heath at the start of fights. The only defenses are proactive conditions that can be cleared.
except we’re talking about ele here? which has... 2 hard CCs(? that i can think of in an x/d build... and the same on an x/f build) hardly a CC kill combo (you can sponge arcane s/x bursts from with DS if you get caught by CC easily; dagger burst is far less potent)
... can get stability for 3s every 6s if you want it >.>
Gtfo out 3 seconds?!!? no way! thats like... 3 whole seconds!!! in a trait line that is lame as hell! YES sir! i will do that! thanks >.>
thats 50% stability uptime (when combined with near to death), you asked for stability grandmaster; we already have one... dont be an idiot
well im not an idiot. That’s 50% uptime with no added stun-break so ur not getting a good a deal as 100% uptime stability (requiring no stun-break in that case). I’m obviously making a very simple comparison and not qqing for stability.
If I could get 100% stability for as long as i had above 90% health it would be a far more useful GM trait, simply put. But we are not only not suppose to have that great of stability, the little stability we gain lacks stun-breaks and is a gm trait.
And if you used the trait in actual play you would see that it is not as simply as "50% uptime" like you say. It is on paper but in practice you soon realize you’re not getting the same deal.
its potentially 50% uptime if needed (far more than at 90%+ health would be)... and you use it pre-emptively
stability whilst over 90% is a lot less useful (imo) because;
- no one opens with CC (most decent players i encounter save it for interrupts or ensuring a win)... and chances of you (especially a necro) being at 90%+ when they do is extremely low
- doesnt protect your heal from being interrupted (unless... you heal at 90%+ health... but thats a pretty bad overheal)
(and i use it a lot in wvw -though ive been using deathly perception more recently... just because +70% crit chance when entering deathshroud makes locust swarm/wells hit very hard - i use it before running through a gate -so no CC from wards/static fields-, when i need to get off a heal uninterrupted or when obvious CC is coming my way -hammer warrs jumping for earthshaker, x/d eles switching to air, x/f eles switching to water etc)
Important notes: A) Diamond skin aint gonna change anything.
B) DS isnt a absorb/block/Invul and dodges are kinda rare, you only got 2 without vigor to regen em for you fast enough, every combo in game can outlock even 2 dodges (since most are designed for 3+
C) Its 3 seconds pre 7 seconds, the 0 counts too if you dont know, also if you ds hop for that, you are kitten, should feel kitten and are playing necro very very badly. its under 10% uptime in any realistic scenario.
B. DS doubles as a second health bar (easily refillable in certain builds)... so it does absorb attacks
C. its 6 seconds (see attatched screenshot - the cooldown also shows 6 seconds; not 6.something-7; straight out of DS)
So, when necros *only* method of stopping a combo is a Fear that can’t affect you, how exactly is that balanced?
only... as if you cant dodge or sponge the hits with DS?
Doesn’t stop the combo at all, just mitigates a portion of it. Fear actually stops it and gives us an opportunity to respond.
dodging completely mitigates it... DS is just a fallback incase you’re out of dodges or reacted slowly (and this is only against eles... whilst at 90%+ health... you could just get them below that thresh-hold and its back to doom defense)
Dark Armor: Dark Armor now causes the user to be immune to damage whilst channeling, crowd control effects still break the channel and therefore the immunity.
Dark Armor: Dark Armor is now a Grandmaster trait.
Siphons in general: Siphon skills will now work in Death Shroud.
would be nice (i ignored getting well CD reduction in my wvw build because im in DS most of the time so wasted minor traits)… but then (if combined with this proposed dark armour) thats… ((9*33)*5)= 1485 healing from life transfer (not including bloodthirst/vampiric precision/wells(vampiric or untraited)/locust swarm… healing in DS was removed in beta wasnt it?)
I think this would be properly balanced if it was something like; immune to condition damage when health is above ~80-90%. This would force Necros to open with physical damage, but at the same time not completely shut down all non-damaging debuffs we have. Immune to all condition effects just seems excessive considering we do not have self-buffs to compensate for locked out debuffs.
that would be a nice idea (and if the same mechanic is used for warr berserker stance would help trim down warrs… but would be too much with the other proposed warr changes)
Last I checked, the majority of necros were either Condition (thus running Scepter/Dagger, Staff and Weakening Shroud) or Minion Master (thus running Death nova). This is even more true in PvP.
So yeah, power necros lose out on support. Condition necros don’t.
im debating pve, minion builds are trash in dungeons (for obvious reasons) and – as i already stated – condi builds are kitten in pve because of condi caps, taking time to ramp up (good groups burst stuff down before they can kill you) and so many encounters being anti condi (dredge fractal for example; does superheated increase condi damage?… or CoE golem mid boss; constantly cleansing)… and again; you lose out on vuln -THE best thing a necro can bring to a party-
and im curious as to where this weakness comes from… because necro sacrifices a lot to obtain a decent weakness up time (especially when you factor in unshakable halving that duration)
If you have 100% uptime, those uptimes translate directly to unshakable durations.
But the real thing we do is put out poison fields, which give 5s of weakness per blast, and 8s per leap. And besides CPC, all of the things that cause weakness are things we’d already be taking regardless, so we aren’t “giving up” anything.
so you’re using; staff? a weak weapon for power builds (and weve already gone over how condi builds are kitten twice)
offhand dagger? weakest offhand; you lose reapers touch (vuln; multiplying the teams DPS… pretty much the only thing necro can do well in teams) and/or locust swarm (which does decent AOE damage and generates life force so you can sponge those hits that every other class can dodge because they have more endurance)
death nova? a death magic (horrible HORRIBLE trait line for optimal pve) grand master (meaning you’ve wasted 30 trait points)
bone minions? you have better things to be slotting
corrosive poison cloud? you’re slotting CPC and bone minions… you’re not helping the team as much as other options
weakening shroud is the only viable source of weakness and thats only because the only other trait worth taking in its place is reapers precision
with unshakable the uptimes you stated are;
Enfeebling Blood – 12% uptime
CPC – 17.75% uptime
Putrid Explosion w/ Death Nova – 25% uptime
Weakning Shroud – 20% uptime
Necs freaking out about this is just hilarious to me. You do realize there’s some white numbers on your skills where your real damage is, or would be if you built for it? And these are Eles we’re talking about… even one or two of your limp-wristed Marks or Scepter autos’ll bring them under 90.
We aren’t freaking out. Staff and scepter auto attack are really bad. Worst in the game bad.
Say goodbye to using blood is power near the start of a fight.
How about this scenario? Ele ports in with ride the lightning knocking us own and starts his kill combo. Necromancer previously could hit death shroud #3 to try and escape that combo, but now that move is unavailable, because the elementalists has a passive immunity.
scepter auto attack is far from bad (staff however…)
ports in? RTL is a charge; and its extremely obvious (if you get RTL’d>updrafted you need better reflexes)
d/d ele has no ‘kill combo’, it has a few hard~ish hitting moves that are predictable (and even if you do kitten and get hit by RTL>updraft -lol- then you can sponge the -likely- burning speed thats incoming using DS)
I love how the mass weakness that necros can cause easily isn’t “defensive support”.
except pve is about killing stuff before they can hit you; a guard giving out perma prot (33% damage reduction consistantly as opposed to weaknesses random ~25% whilst doing good damage -if properly specced- with a hammer), blinds (100% damage mitigation), aegis (100% damage mitigation) and projectile defence (damage mitigation varies per encounter; but its a hell of a lot… and then you have to factor in how the DPS from reflects makes encounters last less time effectively reducing damage the party is taking)
and im curious as to where this weakness comes from… because necro sacrifices a lot to obtain a decent weakness up time (especially when you factor in unshakable halving that duration)
i really like the current implementation of dark path (though… faster projectile would be nice)… and has bleeds/chill for condinecros (as well as the teleport)… as a power necro id be annoyed at the removal of chill as well
In what way are we the worst? Its been shown that we have comparable direct damage DPS to non-warriors.
to… non-warriors? you’re aware warrior is actually pretty mediocre damage wise? its liked for the offensive support and ease to play full zerk… IIRC many classes have higher potential DPS (guard, ele, thief and mes)
In what way are we the worst? Its been shown that we have comparable direct damage DPS to non-warriors, with a much easier time going full glass than pretty much anyone and still being self sufficient. And that is just single-target. We are easily one of the strongest classes at dealing with mass mobs, so long as they can’t ping-pong CC us.
- no cleave; so relying on utilities to aoe (unless you go condi… but condi sucks in pve because they take a while to ramp up -which doesnt happen in the current dps state of pve-, condi caps and many encounters being anti condi)
- no offensive group support beyond vuln (which suffers from condi caps, and most builds apply amounts anyway)
- no defensive group support beyond blinds (which guardian/thief does better) or heals (which are the worst form of group support in pve)
id love to hear what class has it worse than necro
very good in wvw (aoes, perma ret, soft CC, fear, zerg wide protection, blind spam all over)
good in pvp (though -admittedly- i dont play spvp as much as pve or wvw)… alot of people say they’re OP… but i disagree
bad in pve, condis suck (condi caps,, taking time -which is bad- to ramp up and many encounters being very anti condi) and offers little useful group support that other classes cant do better
