How do you know that they started it?
Because people who believe in playing how they want don’t care what builds people use.
Take a second and re-evaluate that statement. ANYONE can be the culprit of this if you’re using that logic and who is to say that the “evil kitten elitists” were they ones that started this movement? Was it recorded in video game history, can you find the source? Did the Prophet state this in his/her teachings?
It’s not a stretch of the imagination to think that people who play a wider range of builds are more tolerant to other people that play a wider range of builds than people that preach “only DPS” approach to PVE. It’s HIGHLY unlikely that the practice of kicking people from teams started with a random bunch of people playing non-DPS optimized builds.
Further evidence is just historical forum posts. Mocking people, discussions in Guardian forum, etc… it’s pretty evident of who are the tolerant people and who are not. I don’t think my hypothesis is all that far from what happened. If a person is intolerant, they are more likely to act on intolerance than someone that is tolerant. Some DPS-only PVE people don’t come across as the most tolerant bunch from what I can see ingame and in the forums. Is that so unreasonable to make that connection?
Quite unreasonable. People that believe in playing how they want, sometimes communicate how they want to play with others through their recruiting messages. This is the opposite of not caring how others play.
Kittens are Kittens no matter their fur color, or lack of fur.
The term “elitist” is used as a catch all “I did not enjoy playing with that player” sort of insult. It’s about as worthy of rescue as “newbie” or “casual” anymore… not really worth it.
Might as well filter all of ’em to “kitten”
However, if the advertisement for the party says “wear a funny hat”*, I expect folks to wear a funny hat, or not join.
*standing in for any restriction
Ventrillo, Raidcall, Mumble, Skype, Teamspeak
Those services listed above are good excuses not to be working on this.
I would be more enthused about those meta-achievement skins if I could use them, and buy them from my Hall of Monuments to use on another character down the road.
As it stands the ones I could get only one copy of are bank clutter.
I would want it to be a slot with a show/hide option if adding appearances to earrings.
Some of my characters would surely show them, some however would not.
No more leashing, Everquest fans unite!
I’d be fine with it, I hate how everyone wants to skip mobs. I had someone complain last night that we weren’t killing trash, which was refreshing. I just run past most of the time because I get tired of people telling me “we can skip these”.
I do sort of miss blackburrow trains.
But some mobs should leash, even in mythology some behave in that manner, or are actually chained down.
Some should be skipped, some should be take timing to skip, others jumping, invisibility, or even stealth.
Some though, should simply be faster and more rewarding to kill, especially if they are “intended” to be harder or impossible to skip.
Pffft…
What we do need is /duel and ability for guilds to mutually declare war on each other (and then be able to fight against each other, maybe not in cities though…).
This is a thread about roleplaying, not duels.
The dice always lie…Random does not a story make.
That being said, I’d be all for an official roleplay server or two. The separate rules set that is often requested for names and other things can get in the way though.
Sadly, the moment a server is declared officially RP, every troll on the internet will descend on it and you’ll find very little RP at all. Look at Rift. Tarnished Coast and Piken Square apppear to work perfectly fine as unofficial RP servers.
Strangely enough I find roleplay fairly often in every game. Not everyone is roleplaying by this set of rules, or that set of rules. Many however will give it a try if you light roleplay at them occasionally.
If one is going for the public theater style of roleplay, then one must be aware that others may want to join in the fun. New roleplayers often flock to official roleplay servers and do not start out knowing the various sets of guidelines folks use. Communication can often help with the new folks. For everyone else there is /ignore and possibly /report.
The dice always lie…Random does not a story make.
That being said, I’d be all for an official roleplay server or two. The separate rules set that is often requested for names and other things can get in the way though.
I would love to be able to place several ui elements on a second monitor
Rare → Exotic → Ascended could equal the start of a treadmill, though I would not yet call it one, as I can certainly see the argument that the path should start at Exotic instead.
I would think of it as a treadmill more if there was gear you got from bosses, that helped you get gear from later bosses in a raid progression sort of thing. Sort of like if Fractals provided gear for every slot it covers, two or three times in increasing levels of power and protection.
I, at least, read those things and know when I’m not the guy they’re looking for.
gw2lfg.com You can post your own group, with any description you want. Update every few minutes and it will generally fill. No matter the description.
There are even folks that specifically look for those all inclusive groups to join, pretty much everyone in this and other threads opposing /inspect for one example.
I’m guess you didn’t understand this line when I wrote it. I’m already well aware of that site and use it.
I was aware of that line as well. The “dating add for elitism” and it being very hard to find groups for some paths, that removes any impression that you post your own group advertisements.
As stated above – even though I try I always get people like this in my dungeons. I’m considering using the tag " elitist scum only " for my runs. Perhaps that might make it clearer.
I love this idea, but I know it won’t work because people are stupid. I, at least, read those things and know when I’m not the guy they’re looking for. It’s pretty obvious if you do or do not fit the mold, so I don’t know why or how anyone could get confused.
I think the main reason I seem to care so much is because I’m not willing to change my build for anyone, but I still want to complete some of these dungeons. I’m trying to push back, rather than give ground. It’s very hard to actually find a group for some dungeons/paths because they all read like a dating add for elitism. I’m hoping that if I fight the fight that maybe that can turn around and people who just want to do it for fun, not just reward oriented people will become more available and I can tick another one off my list.
The more ground, though, that is given to those who aren’t willing to compromise and who have no interest in my way of playing the harder it is to actually find that group.
gw2lfg.com You can post your own group, with any description you want. Update every few minutes and it will generally fill. No matter the description.
There are even folks that specifically look for those all inclusive groups to join, pretty much everyone in this and other threads opposing /inspect for one example.
I would have no objection to having a skill which ends your downstate and puts you in dead state. Whichever way you get there though the opponents should still get full benefits from your death.
Heck, I’m in the camp which thinks the opponents should get full benefit for defeating you if they run you off
That just shows you play against thieves – the only profession where making them disengage is a “win”. (This shows a truly glaring balance issue, for all that thieves deny it.)
I do play against Thieves, and I play a Thief, and sometimes a Guardian. My running out of a combat I had engaged in should count as a victory for them, even if I don’t lay there dying.
Getting anyone to disengage and run away to fight another day can be a victory. Running away still happens in a zerg vs zerg environment, and while I would prefer to crush them under my heels, sometimes even zergs turn tail and flee.
Never.
I will quit the game if they add this (comes from person with 9characters geared with exotics)
I had enough problems with CoF farmers who forced me to ping my gear each time I joined party for daily run.NO MORE gear checking or any other hate generating options.
Thank you.
Why ever where you joining the pinging gear groups if you did not want to play that way? If you are joining random groups and they are asking for you to ping your gear, not forcing, why are you doing so If if gets you this upset. There where plenty of groups formed for CoF1 on gw2lfg that where not asking for gear pings, join those, or advertise your own.
Don’t ping if you don’t want to. Don’t reward behavior that you do not want to play with. The other players cannot force you to do anything except through vote kick. They can however choose not to play with you. You have the same option.
Don’t encourage the behavior you seem to perceive as “bad” by submitting. Leave or vote kick them instead!
I would have no objection to having a skill which ends your downstate and puts you in dead state. Whichever way you get there though the opponents should still get full benefits from your death.
Heck, I’m in the camp which thinks the opponents should get full benefit for defeating you if they run you off 
I generally find that story mode dungeon requests on gw2lfg fill up and complete, even the occasional Arah story.
Mind you I don’t think one should have to do story mode first to be able to open explorable mode at this stage of the game. So I sort of support your position, but I do not want story mode to go away, instead I want it to be expanded into a lower difficulty mode for dungeons for “playing catch” mode gameplay.
I partially agreee with you, but mostly disagree.
Some mobs and bosses should be designed to be skippable, and easy to skip. Anything actually chained down, oozes and other non intelligent mobs, beasts even magical giant ones should go back after chasing you out of their lair. These mobs in general should have a massive amount of hit points.
Some more intelligent mobs, like player and allied races should be harder to skip, and proper timing with some form of stealth or invisibility or even distraction abilities should greatly help. This class of mob should have a less hit points.
At times though, yes we should have to kill or Trick mob X to advance, Gatekeepers come to mind. None shall pass and so forth.
And sometimes, with the especially loyal or cooperative mobs, skipping them should make a latter part of the dungeon more difficult, as they will be warned by the folks you just ran past.
There is a huge difference with “its ok, we are not going to add a report skipper button” and “Yes we designed in a way where we want you to press sprint and W to complete it”
And then there’s “We don’t mind if players skip this or not. It is up to them to decide what they wish to complete”.
ahap, but then again, this is forums inside a thread were we are discussing exactly this, dungeons difficulty and what we think of and I think that asking for more difficulty to just skip it or bug it (not neccesarly the sa me thing in case anyone softy gets offended) makes no sense.
I want more difficulty to make other gear, builds, and communication more valuable in play.
I believe that yes, some mobs and bosses you should be able to skip, and skip easily. Anything actually chained down, oozes and other non intelligent mobs, beasts even magical giant ones should go back after chasing you out of their lair. These mobs in general should have a massive amount of hit points.
Some more intelligent mobs, like player and allied races should be harder to skip, and generally require proper timing or stealth, invisibility, distraction abilities to do so most of the time.
Some groups that are loyal, intelligent, and organised should communicate ahead if skipped, making later encounters more difficult, and should be killed before they can sound the alarm. Pulling them away from the alarm might very well be a good idea. These mobs should have a lower amount of hit points to encourage the killing of them.
That being said, I want there to be an easy version as well of all the paths in story mode as well for the folks that like running dungeons, but currently do not because of difficulty. If putting such a thing in, they should also get their own type of rewards, and there is a lot of skin chasing, so skins seem ideal to me.
but… what about the casual players?
Not sure where this is coming from in this thread.
Casual players play games and have fun. They can still learn/teach strategy and follow/lead along with playing well with others.
Bad players are the ones that can’t learn or adapt to changing situations.
NOTE: failure to skip isn’t difficulty. It is tedium.
Agreed.
Time Spent or Random chance to get Reward are not difficulty.
I think that several games have had fights where it was designed for you to fight inside the model of the boss for some raids. While I think it is cheesy, I cannot call it an exploit.
The game and real world work differently ( yay dragons and fireballs.) The dissonance this creates in our minds is a part of the fun of playing in them.
Both could use a serious revamp.
Tougher and more Interesting for Explorable. Training wheels for Story mode. Explorable and Story with the same mechanics and paths. Slower and Weaker mechanics for Story mode then for Explorable.
On skipping I feel that some should be, some should not be, and some should take stealth or invis or other distraction and communication to skip reliably.
Intelligent Mobs should have and use both buffs and conditions, and other profession skills and weapon attacks.
Some bosses should be a pile of hit points and immunities, but not all.
I would be fine with some guilds having enforced representation, in that standing down was an automatic removal from the Guild by the game mechanics.
“Invitation from For Victory [DIG] 100% representation required”.
A message on invite just like that would work for me as a warning when joining, not that I would plan on joining.
What I want with Guilds though is alliance chat, currently some of these are done though the creation of new guilds as a work around.
I would love for there to be a distinct difference in the difficulty of story mode and explorable mode from both underneath in skill, and above in skill. Personally I would hope to make dungeons more difficult for explorable and more interesting in both.
Some trash you should skip, some trash you should kill, some trash that is harder to skip but takes special skills like invisibility or stealth. More intelligent Mobs having buffs and conditions to use and give out like they where an actual class.
I would lower the difficulty of Story modes though, and create another one for each of the current explorable paths. They would use almost the same mechanics, but in a more forgiving way. To make them easier and more forgiving I would lower the hit points of mobs, slow them own a bit, and have them hit softer.
I would add a currency to Story mode as well, and add level appropriate rare equipment of interesting appearance to be bought at vendors for the new currency only.
I thought I replied to this already, but it doesn’t seem like I did. When I made my Warrior, I crafted it to level 80 and put Berserker’s armor on it. I learned to play it the hard way, and that was far more effective than trying to take it slow. A lot of the things I learned from playing Warrior made me want to get rid of the Knight’s gear on my Guardian and made me think about aggro mechanics and min/maxing with damage. That drove me to become better at Guardian, and I realized that I didn’t know much of anything about Guardian or boss fights even though I thought I did. When you are of the mindset that you will just tank and heal and it will be k, you are being bad and lazy. You are not learning, and there is no excuse for it. There’s no point in taking small steps, just go in and go balls deep and YOLO.
I live many times in most MMO’s though. Death, where is thy sting.
Sometimes players do not want a challenge, sometimes they just want to pass a ball back and forth.
Placing horns on them because they are playing the same game differently then you does you no favor. Mind you, if you advertise what you are looking for, they should not join if they don’t want to play your way. Hopefully they will advertise what they are looking for in groups as well so that you can avoid them.
There will always be folks wanting to join groups they are not yet ready for though, but fans will be fans.
But I really wish I was told to start off on beserker. I have so many bad habits thanks to forgiving gear.
Yeah, I’ve got some too.
(edited by Llyren.3904)
Anything over 12 people is too much to be honest. Imo they should make elite dungeons like in GW1, but increase the party size to 8.
I hate Zergs, and Zerg raids aren’t going to be any more fun than Zergs are now. It’s mindlessly boring and takes very little skill.
The weakness of roles in GW2 does make designing interesting Raids more difficult, but I think still possible.
It would be quite possible to for example design something such that the “zerg” had to split up into parts to complete sections and unlock advancement for the other sides to get everyone to the end. Perhaps a section with jumping puzzles, while another way was rush though, another that rewards staying alive while a last rewards DPS.
I concurr. Everyone should have access to everyone’s information, including how much gems, gold, tokens they have and which achievements they completed and what they have in the bank.
I’m all up for an open GW2 community. No need to hide.
The slippery slope is strong in this one…
Actually, fine with it going that far. I’d like to be able to track my own achievements by individually located spot for some of the exploration ones. I don’t care if you have an in game way to verify I have done what I say I have done. I’m for it actually.
Let it show how much cash I have spent on gems as well, even hours played, per class or total.
Home address and real life name might be a bit much, as there can be Minors present, and some jobs are weird about hiring gamers. Email would be an Account Security risk.
not everything is reportable. But aside from something any thick skin can solve, elitist attitude ruins communities. an idea like this has been proven time and again to only encourage elitism while providing very little benefit at all.
Everything is reportable that is not solved by being willing to communicate with others.
Shoving “the other” into “the devil” category does you no good.
/inspect has never hurt anyone, it merely fosters communication.
So, “They won’t let me play with them because I don’t meet their irrelevant and unnecessary standards,” is reportable? ANet will make them play nice?
Devil is and the devil does?
/inspect has hurt everyone who wanted to play the game the way they like but were not able to because other players felt their way was insufficient. It does not foster communication. “Tell us your build or GTFO,” is not communication. “We don’t like your build so GTFO,” is also not communication.
“They won’t let me play with them” is solved by communication. They want X build, I am unwilling to play with X build. Ok then, we’ll go our separate ways. We are all here for our own enjoyment, and not hired entertainers or tour guides.
“Tell us your build or GetTheSwearingOut” is solved by /report.
There where more statements or questions like “People who think that inspecting is not used to weed out people without giving them a chance are delusional.”“Devil is as Devil does”
The above is solved by communication. Sometimes you will need to advertise your own purposes and form your own groups to find like minded players. Do not play with those you view as “the devil” That will only ruin your own happy fun playtime.
I am just hoping to see more permanent content as part of the living story.
Group things between Explorable mode Dungeons and World pvp would be welcome. Some two to six group non-timed content would be nice to see as well.
If implementing something like instanced Raids, I would hope for a small minimum size, but a very high maximum size.
Then again I remember 72 person Raids back in Planes of Power era of Everquest, or even taking 100 plus characters in for some PuG Raids then. So that is the MMO and size of Raid that I see through rose colored glasses.
not everything is reportable. But aside from something any thick skin can solve, elitist attitude ruins communities. an idea like this has been proven time and again to only encourage elitism while providing very little benefit at all.
Everything is reportable that is not solved by being willing to communicate with others.
Shoving “the other” into “the devil” category does you no good.
/inspect has never hurt anyone, it merely fosters communication.
Second one of these this week isn’t it, or maybe third or fourth, in any case.
I support full transparency of spec and gear, and yes, even what your character looks like in their underpants…
and I don’t care what you are wearing or playing.
If someone is mean, then /report or ignore. Mostly though they are not being mean with their comments. Perception of tone through text is subjective.
I would use the suggested filter as well.
One of the things I would use this for is for checking out how some armor mixes look on my characters when building a new look for them.
The more new looks created, the more transmutation stones bought.
I think any player that has researched their class a bit can be usefull in a zerg or small group roam. I think the skill cap is higher the smaller the group you play in.
I do not think every player can be usefull as a solo roamer on every class.
I like to find the anchor points in a zerg, steal all their boons, and watch them explode. This free’s up my zerg’s damage to hit more squishies. I could go after squishies instead, but they take more time to explode then a buff filled bunker cause they run =D
The OP of that build pretty much acknowledges that the builds he links to (one of which is mine) are better than his. He wants to have a popular build and his reasons for using it are targeted to lazy people that don’t care to improve. His build is bad, and if you want to play a healing / tanky build then they are also bad. There’s no reason to be playing with a build like that. People with the tank mentality need to man up and use Berserker’s armor and actually contribute something other than a wasted party slot.
I agree that he absolutely calls your build superior to his.
“What’s the catch?” you ask. Well if I’m being honest, this build isn’t going to do as much damage as Brazil’s or Guanglai’s. Those builds are going to be a few percent better than this. About 5% if I’m not mistaken. But you weren’t running either of those builds. You were running Strife’s build. And this build is better than Strife’s build. At an absolute minimum, these builds do 28% more damage than their Strife’s guide equivalent, even if you stay with Soldier’s Runes.
There is more difference between bad and worse then between good and better. The best is the enemy of the good.
Players can improve incrementally that feel they cannot make the jump immediately to full berserker, or other flavor of the game. I count ten build links in that thread to help them do so and give them options. Two of which he claims are better then his variants, one of which is indeed yours.
Many people now using full berserker got there a piece at a time.
That’s all well and good, but there’s a difference between excluding the people that refuse to be helped from groups or dungeon runs or whatever and straight out shutting out EVERYONE but your own little clique on account of everyone being too stubborn to accept help, when said help is typically given in the form of massive walls of math that most people don’t give a flying finger about.
Unfortunately, pretty much everyone who adopts that “some people don’t deserve to be helped” mentality actually mean “nobody besides me and my buddies deserve to be helped”
The sensitive person who is trying to be helpful online often has no defenses vs the mean. We’re online, we may not be the most socially adept, please excuse us all.
You can start by assuming people actually mean what they say. That they intend to be giving advice with a nice “tone”. That they are not “the devil” and trying to hurt or deceive you. Sometimes you may be wrong in this, but /report and /ignore fixes that problem nicely if/when they start calling you names.
I should note that math is often the least subjective way to communicate a complicated idea. Math is the game. In general any math heavy text also will have a summary explanation.
(edited by Llyren.3904)
Maybe check out the below link for some ideas on healing builds that do a bit more damage. http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84424-the-new-guardian-anchor-build/
That’s a terrible build, though.
Go ahead, link him a better build for his stated purpose, being a healy supporty guardian.
Several of the builds linked in the post use mostly Berserker gear, a few use all. I’m not looking that heavily into them though. They may all be terrible
A condescending tone (or lack of) makes a big difference in how a person interprets your advice, even if it is genuinely helpful by reasoning. Some people are sensitive, and using such a tone will cause them to get defensive. Such situations tend to leave advisors perplexed as to why they are being scolded when the advice they give is truly helpful.
There’s a right way to do the right things, and when it comes to jumpy people, ‘the end justifies the means’ is unsound reasoning.
Just my $0.02.
Tone does not translate well over text.
Getting defensive over advice gets them worse sounding advice over time, and less nice helpful people to group with. As the “nice helpful” people restrict themselves to only playing in their guild groups, and dropping bad groups like a hot potato.
Nice helpful people are occasionally allergic to drama.
I support full transparency of spec and gear.
At least partially because the folks against the idea went into full insult mode first here, and in every other thread it has been asked for that I have seen.
I fail to see how raising concerns over elitism and PUG abuse are in any way, an “insult”.
I wish they add inspect.. those useless MF guys
This, on the other hand could be construed as an insult. I wonder how many times those “useless” MF guys have carried you through dungeon runs?
I should note that at this time some posts have been trimmed from this thread, though at the time of your reply they where still here. That is a very kind paraphrase you have of them.
Elitist is used as an insult and dismissal of argument about as often as noob or bad is. Equating elite play and bad pug treatment as coming from the same people is an insult. If that is not insulting I have a bridge to sell you, or perhaps some land in florida.
Strangely enough Arenanet has stated the intention of removing magic find gear from the game. They have already started to add that stat to our accounts.
What are you suggesting should be bought with these trophy tickets?
Skins? Gear? Titles? Cheese? something for your “Hoiuse” zone?
Ultimate Cosmic Power?
I support full transparency of spec and gear.
At least partially because the folks against the idea went into full insult mode first here, and in every other thread it has been asked for that I have seen.
They do rotate, weekly. It may take more then 3 weeks to be every starting color though.
One reports someone because you don’t want their emotional attachment and lack of reason to infect the rest of the forum. Not because one can’t take an insult.
/reporting is basic forum housekeeping.
Arenanet doesn’t generally tell us who they infract for posts. While we don’t know that the other person was not slapped down as well, you can still /report to bring it to their attention.
“But he started it” does not tend to work well as a defense in any case.
Some people are mean, but not most.
Trying to hand out helpful advice in a calm and kind way sometimes gets back thrown biological waste materials. This eventually stops nicer folks that just want a calm and kind play environment from giving advice. They start just guild grouping, or dropping groups that are not working.
Tone does not translate well over text after all, in a way it is really quite tragic.
Bad communication makes for bad group experiences. The more you are willing to lead, or follow smartly, the better your group experiences can be.
Maybe check out the below link for some ideas on healing builds that do a bit more damage. http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84424-the-new-guardian-anchor-build/
(edited by Llyren.3904)
Who are you to say that “spying” in WvW is not a legitimate tactic?
actually yes it is a tactic, but a pretty lame one.imo
Yeah well golem rushing is also often considered a lame tactic. Wanna implement a counter that prevents any server from having more than X golems spawned on any WvW map at the same time?
Oh and using tons of ACs is also considered a lame tactic. Wanna limit the amount of ACs? What about using ACs outside of towers/keeps/SM?
I would actually love if there where random rulesets for the WvW match’s where some types of siege where not allowed to be built that week. I could see this as a balancing tool as well. Facing a much lower ranked server this week? expect to have limited siege while they get all the toys.
The information that spies get is up to you, and the rest of your server. While you can’t stop them from taking their character there and watching, you can have an out of game voice chat that is more restricted.
You may also want to consider running multiple zergs on the same map. Some with Commander icons and some without Commander icons. Have your own loyal spotters. Praise the mini groups that take the supply camps and kill the enemy stragglers, get them in the information loop.
See this thread “lvl 80 in a 1-15 land?” from 4 days ago for more thoughts.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/lvl-80-in-a-1-15-land/first#post2620905
Level 80 is just 8 or so hours into the game with gold, and gems can be turned into gold. If someone wants to “spy” then level gating can not stop them.
Secondly WvW is a great place to level up, and being able to level up killing other players was an important selling point for many of the players I know.
Thirdly, if you know you are being spied upon, and think you know who they are, or how they are getting their information, then feed them false information.
A “Hi, I’m new to dungeons and learning” goes farther then new armor to improving your experience. Gw2lfg.com is your friend.
While some will insist on full berserker armor, others will say play what you want. At this time I think it would be silly to not have a full berserker set if you are trying to run as many dungeons as possible. I also think it would also be silly to only have a full berserker set.
I suggest having a few pieces you can swap in from other sets, and be aware of which style of run you are joining. Condition damage is fine for one character in the party, but at 2 or more players you tend to step on each others toes with it.
If the party advertisement asks for full berserkers, wear the full berserkers for that party, or just don’t join that party.
WvW Armor and Weapons, and Temple gear in Orr can be quite affordable as entry level 80 Exotics. Stat choices are limited though.