(edited by Phil.8901)
But why would the system put all the bad players in the same team and all the good in the other for hundreds and thousands of games? I mean, according to you, the system can’t even know who is good and who is bad. You are basically saying, matchmaking doesn’t exist and never existed, because it is all rng. But if its all rng, it will be the same for all players in the long run. Because rng doesn’t give any advantages or disadvantages to anybody.
The system can’t judge who is good and who is bad, it’s not designed for that. It’s designed to judge am entire team so it would work great for full premades, but for individuals it is crap.
+1 this
Basically this.
I was thinking if put a lot of effort in the game, looking for a dude with my similar skill level (1700+ mmr) and try to duo queue, carrying like crazy, until legendary.
But a the end of the story I realized all this effort is pure meaningless, the only sense if you want to be a Pro player for the big prize money competition, honestly for a anonymous title all this effort is simply too much.
Probably I’ll move to other competitive pvp game, but without team involved, only 1vs1 or 2vs2, at least if I lose I can blame only myself and if I win is only for my skill. Dunno, I’ll think about it.
Tired to not have control on other people skill, These team games at the end are very fun all if you have a competition full team vs full team, in solo you lose a lot of fun.
Don’t get me wrong, on paper I like this system but is only bad implemented, with placements and old mmr too strong and duo queue too much important at higher level.
Maybe s6 will be better.
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1) EU player n° 250 has (right now)1781 mmr, you are 229 in NA with 1746. In Na the competion is like a large hot join but everyone knows this.
2) in EU the true challenge starts when you reach platinum tier 1, in EU if you can go to legendary in solo starting from a lower tier (gold or platinum tier1) you’re doing for sure something really really difficult to do.
I’d like to see some player (eu side) do something similar, reaching legendary in solo from a lower tier, I think you need a w/l very close to 70%+ to accomplish this and in solo this w/l is very remarkable , maybe almost impossible with the actual system but I dunno (it’s like to climb 250 points from 1700, really hard). Repeat, In Solo, Eu side, and from a lower tier like gold/plat 1.
Wanna see this
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in Uncharted 4 Ranked PvP, Once you hit “legendary” you’re ranked purely on skill/performance, and not on winning. Therefor to climb to the top, you have to have the best offensive/support/ k/d scores etc. If you perform poorly, you lose score dramatically.
Well I dunno Uncharted 4 but for sure I agree your performance should have a weight on final score.
I noticed this pattern in basically every game
1) pro player duo queue. Ok they’re really good, they deserve to be there, system let them to go in duo, so it’s ok but you can easily predict who will win just reading the players name involved because many times there is no the right balance on both of sides about skill. So talking about matchmaking there is more than issue here.
2) Other good players probably mmr like 1900 or 1850 more or less, you can notice they’re good and try their best. Ofc the level is not the same like the top 20 boys.
3) I want to talk about the 3th category. This is people who doesn’t know the game. I mean, not talking about mechanically skill but a lot of other stuff like rotation, cleave etc., really bad bad mistakes, for sure it’s not what you aspect to see in legendary.
So this is the placement result and the formula used, these guys have probably farmed their old mmr in team or stronghold and now they have a good spot. Main issue is I don’t think these guys will go down a lot because they will have always the chance to be carried from pro players so basically i think they will survive with a 50/50 and if they don’t play a lot of games daily, they’ll survive in this area for a long time.
I think this is completely wrong from a competitive prospetctive, first of all because the effort to climb in solo is really huge from platinum tier1 to legendary, second I think this status is a too much good for 10 placements games + old mmr.
So I think Anet should modify some stuff in the decay area, in the points gain/lost and in the formula + initial placement.
Thoughts?
For me if people want a social experience should go in unranked.
Ranked is for competition and is pretty clear duo queue has many advantages than pure solo queue.
Personally I vote for soloqueue only in ranked.
Soooooo……we have drama here!
They need to be more distinguishable, and honestly, a bit better looking.
+1
1.7k skill is trash right now, too many people dunno how to play correctly.
If an ele can manage 3 people is totally a shame for these 3 people and should try other games.
This is not possible in a decentl skill area to do this.
Every classes right now is very weak to power damage, ofc if people play braindead condi classes is not really noticable but without celestial, soldier and cleric power Dps classes if They know how to focus are all a pain to handle.
Ele needs to kite quickly under power damage pressure, druid is the same.
These compliants are really useless, it’s all a learn to play issue.
It’s a low tier issue.
Learn to focus the ele, celestial and cleric age is over since a bit
If you are using MMR to pair teams, why are 1,4,2,3 even being teamed with 8,9,10’s? That’s why this system continues to frustrate people.
Because it’s a 10 player game. Those 10 players could have the exact same rating in the best case scenario.
Am I misunderstanding what you are saying. 1-10 denotes skill or simply the number of players?
Just ordering of skill. The skill range could be big or small. (hopefully small)
Hey Evan,
Just wanted to take a quick moment to ask that if in the future, you would consider implementing a “hard cap” on initial tier placements (can’t place higher than gold3, plat1, etc).
While it’s true I don’t know your exact algorithm and 10 placement matches is a generally accepted industry standard for a multitude of good reasons, as a player, judging from my own experience and observations as well as some others; the perception is that the placement matches have over or under-inflated peoples placements.
With a cap, it just seems like you could still place people within proper thresholds accurately, but then people wouldn’t be able to play the “place and beat the decay” game, at least, not if they wanted those higher tiers, which would “force” people into participating in more matches than a lot currently have (granted we’re only 2-3 days in).
This would help the system gather more statistics and place people more accurately and with a higher indication of their actual skill tier than the way it appears currently, not to mention there being a larger pool of players to create matches from since people would still have the incentive to play for more than just beating MMR decay (I hear reports from friends in higher tiers of games being scarce, and I assume they’d also be less evenly matched since the longer the matchmaker works, the more the rating threshold opens up to try to create a match).
Granted I didn’t really need to explain it all, but I did so in case you do actually decide to respond and do one of those “separate perception from reality” things that you do.
We talked about capping placement and opted to have less restrictions. One thing I would consider is lowering the default rating deviation so people don’t fly around as much and soft reset has more meaning.
You basically say everything, can you tell us how much min/max can fly the soft rank after 10 games placement?
+ 200 -200?
Es. soft rank 1700 you can go to 1900 or 1500?
I posted here my considerations and suggestions
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/terrible-experience-in-new-system/first#post6433482
I think this is one of the points broken in this season.
I’m sorry but I think this is the worst season.
I mean the attempt was nice on paper but bad implemented.
The main reason is because basically you can’t progress in solo from platinum + or legendary, there is a stuck point where you lose more points than you gain and you’re basically stuck and don’t move at all and probably more you play, more you go down.
Matchmaking is not perfect so loss are inevitable and many times the system is broken because it only consider mmr but not professions so maybe it thinks you can win but in reality not and you lose a lot of points.
Basically it’s like if in the old Seasons we won 1 pip for winning and lost 2 pips for losing without winstreaks or losstreaks.
In legendary or platinum 3 the situation is ridicolus I lost the count how many players have less than 15 games and this system doesn’t promote to play because punish you in haevy way if you lose, and ofc if you can’t win against better player because they’re afk the entire system is kitten bad.
Ok rant over, some suggestions:
1) Do something about how many points you win/lose because it’s ridicolous you arrive at some point where you lose more than you gain
2) personal performance should be considered in the mmr points at the end of the game for a little bonus. Maybe you can consider that only in case of loss dunno but you need to reward players if they play well and try to do really the best for the team and at the end the lose the game.
3) Old mmr and 10 initial games have too much impact on your placement and your season progression. Many players bumped their old mmr in team or stronghold so you need to rework the formula because the weight is so high. Honestly I don’t really care if you put me in gold, platinum or legendary at the beginning but I need to have a chance to progress in solo or the entire season is totally useless for me.
4) The system can’t properly balance strong duo queue from every side in every game, so when you’re in the wrong side, you’ll lose the game and you’ll lose more points than winning. This has a huge impact on progression. Promote solo play in terms of score if you want to mantain the duo queue or just implement a pure solo queue.
5) Too many afk in lb, something needs to change here.
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I think rewards are not well balanced.
I mean there are too much stuff for top25 (5 titles on 7) and with a duo queue system these spots are already taken by the best pro team players.
They ofc deserve to be at the top but is a different challenge going solo and going in duo with a your pro team friend with Team speak
I’d prefer a pure solo queue honestly, i think the competition is more fair but giving different points quantity if you go solo or in duo i think could be work.
We’ll see the final lb at the end of the season but I honestly don’t think there will be too much surprises.
Only soloqueue is a different story.
Btw splittings pips and adding a rating lb was a nice idea, well done.
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Would you want to see any changes to Courtyard before it came back? A new mechanic, perhaps?
Decrease team numbers to 3 or 2
More space, less walls
Annihilation
Separate queue
Otherwise no thx.
Nerfs are huge.
There is a really big difference before/now
Mobility is nerfed a lot for more CD on AG and heal, and the CA more CD gives less sustain, less stealth and a longer condi removal.
The actual meta build is really nerfed, dunno if other builds are better or it’s always the best build for druid.
But Anet hit very hard, without any doubt is the most nerfed build for this patch.
Solo q’ers should only play against solo q’ers. Premades should only play against premades. You don’t need to exclude premades from ranked, just make sure they only fight other premades. They’ll have longer queues? Probably, because most people play solo, but at least let they’ll have the choice.
To do this you need to have a really large pvp players base
This is not the case.
That’s the reason why Anet needs to choose an alternative system if they want to put a competitive structure in the game.
The actual structure is a pure grindfest, not more not, less, there is nothing competitive inside.
Too many people reach legendary because They go in full premade against soloers/semi pug. Going in full premade in ranked has sense only if you face another full premade every time with a similar skill level, but it doesnt happen, so is basically farming and stop.
And mmr of people who go in full premade is really more higher than going solo and this makes a lot of issues for matchmaker, trying to Make a balanced Game every time.
This is because a mixed queue works badly in the Game.
+1. So force everyone to be a 5-man premade, and it’s fixed.
This can’t work for several reasons.
First of all you’re in a competitive environment (we are talking about ranked) so is not the same thing that make a 5 men team for dungeons or fractals.
If you want to put together 5 competitive men, they need to know each other they need to trust each other, basically everyone needs to schedule their life with other 4 people.
Really few guys want to do this, the effort is really high and the reward only worth for a competitive tournament like pro league with real money involved.
In a daily game this effort is simply too much for the majority of the people, so you’ll find only few people, bad matchmaking e really long queues.
It has really more sense to let people to go in full team in unranked, so doesn’t really matter about winning or losing (this is the spirit of unranked) where the environment is more casual by design.
The majority of people already play ranked in solo duo so it makes a really more sense to try a season with only a solo duo implemented and see what happens.
And I repeat is not more because soloers can’t win against premades (happens in a more or less 50/50 chances) but because everyone can be better valued and this means better games (more balanced) for everyone.
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You’re forgetting the key component of getting a team in a first place. Playing with players and slowly adding on guys you do well with until you have a team that knows how to work together.
You don’t just pick 5 random guys and start scrimming 5 other random people and have an ESL or even AG ready team. You build your team up slowly while trying to play seriously and meet other new players during then.
Where are these 3-4-5 man groups supposed to play and start learning how to work together? Unranked? Might as well go stomp people in hotjoin.
You can do the same and better with a solo / duo queue.
If your goal is to make a full team for a competitive scene, you can easily identify duo or solo players you think are good and know/invite them for practice in duo or in pvt arenas orgainizing duel and duo vs duo etc.
It’s totally useless adding people to make trio or 4 guys and going against random people in ranked, the only thing you can have is a negative feedback, maybe you think your team is good but in reality is not because you only stomp random players.
I repeat, the only sense right now to make a full team and going ranked is minimizing the chance to get “bad people” in your team and farming ranked.
Stop.
For other goals there are better things you can do and a solo / duo queue only helps more.
I think, if they are going to have solo/duo queues, that immediately suggests they will have seperate queues for 5-man teams. If they decide not to have different queues for 5-man teams, then that means they have forgotten that they have a competitive scene to foster.
The problem is that joining in full team ranked queue helps ZERO for the competitive scene.
There is no way a new full team, joining the ranked queue and farming soloquers o trios can be ready and good enough for pro league seasons/world championship.
You have really more and better practice joining solo or with a friend.
To refine tactics with a full team you need to do pvt sessions with another full teams. Not at all ranked in full team. Ranked in full team is only for farming.
The main issue is not you can’t beat premades in solo, happens a lot to beat bad premades in solo, the main advantage with only a solo/duo queue is a better matchmaker and a better value for every player (mmr)
In the old soloqueue leaderboard, the top100 soloqueue was basically always filled with the best 100 players in the game (without considering 10 wins / 0 loss exploits + top1 with returning people or new players lucky strike).
Historically, the old soloqueue leaderboard was the best approximation for skill we had since forever and there were a lot of other issues (no map selection, big volatility, no rewards, no fixed decay etc.)
I really think right now a solo queue/ duo queue with the actual structure is really the best move anet can do.
If I remember correctly the old poll (no official) about soloqueue was like 85% + or – of the community wanted it, a pretty huge %.
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A message from the PvP Team:
Second, in the next few weeks we’ll be running a poll that asks if you’d like to see PvP Leagues switch to a solo/duo queue only system, rather than allowing rosters of any size (1 through 5 players). This is potentially a very big change for PvP, so we wanted to get it on your radar ahead of time so you can ruminate, discuss it together now, and then share your opinion on the poll when it is available.
+ 1 milion
Got the title, this is my feedback
The map is really interesting but there are some stuff to fix:
- Map promotes too much Blink and teleport skills most of all for taking side buffs and go through the Mid barrier.
- Buffs are interesting but the design is too much “selfish”. I’d like more a Team bonus advantage, ofc it should be balanced with duration and damage. A general idea could be you channel the buff and every member of your team get the buff and has 90s to activate it and the buff has a duration between 15s – 30s. The idea is to make a spike or defense action in a time window, something can change a fight but you need to activate well at the right moment.
The crowd buff is pretty funny and I think is fine like it is.
About the design i I think the crowd is fine because is important to have a very good frame rate, so too much details are not good. You could add some Animals or gladiators more detailed on base cages, like an environment element.
I think the OP has a point, players that pvp and stick to it even with so bad MM and got legend in all 4 seasons, should get a finisher, would be nice, not that it was any harder , but u still got to play the games.
Im only playing unranked atm , cause i dont think there is many players near prestige 3 and my ques are insanely long.
I hope anet will show some apreciation for the players still playing pvp and reaching legend, cause really pvp is a mess atm.
You right, you deseve a title for sure
“Salty AFKer”
BTW Devs know this, dunno if they can do something for these 4 seasons and adding a retroactive unique title for 4 legendary seasons.
Maybe for S5, We’ll see.
Sorry guys If I ask but there are some official statement by Anet about a rune/sigils rework?
I know this was discussed a lot for Legendary armor/weapons, having the chance to swap rune/sigils, but I think it would be better rework the general system and directly separate rune/sigils from armor/weapons.
Probably is a big QoL task but I think is really important in the actual status of the game.
Considering we have now 4 beta spvp maps (i aspect some maps will move to ranked for season 5) and you have reworked/created every other hub in the game (raids/fractals) I think a new HOTM would be great because the actual one is really old and useless.
Considering the really good change you have already done to let people join from other maps during the queue, I think a NEW HOTM map should have interesting pvp training activities to invite people to stay in hotm during the queue.
Example of pvp training activities
- Non instanced 1vs1 spot ((with or without a single node)
- Non instanced 2vs2 spot (with or without a single node)
Handling like the old Crown Pavillon cages with a ticket system and where is real crowd (people) around the spot to see how players play.
Another good spvp activity would be a golems rework.
It would be cool if you selected a pool of spells/utility from different professions to learn better the effect against you and to train to dodge/avoid damage. Basically a spvp version of raid golem but you select the enemy “effects” instead of your effects.
There was an old topic in the past where people suggested other pve activities like JP but I think with the recent update is no necessary and is better to be focus on pvp activites.
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It’s a good question.
The map is really interesting but there are some stuff to fix:
- Map promotes too much Blink and teleport skills most of all for taking side buffs and go through the Mid barrier.
- Buffs are interesting but the design is too much “selfish”. I’d like more a Team bonus advantage, ofc it should be balanced with duration and damage. A general idea could be you channel the buff and every member of your team get the buff and has 90s to activate it and the buff has a duration between 15s – 30s. The idea is to make a spike or defense action in a time window, something can change a fight but you need to activate well at the right moment.
The crowd buff is pretty funny and I think is fine like it is.
About the design i I think the crowd is fine because is important to have a very good frame rate, so too much details are not good. You could add some Animals or gladiators more detailed on base cages, like an environment element.
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Just 10-20 gold? A Zojja’s Breastplate costs close to double at the new merchant. The needed matrices alone are worth about 100g. I can craft 2 ascended coats for the price of buying a single one at Bling-9009.
I was thinking the same.
I like the new stuff addiction but I think they need a little balance to reflect the actual economy.
Raids and crafting armor/weapons are really more affordables.
Can’t wait to try it.
Sounds really interesting, Like Temple, you need to spend resources to get the buff but you’re not immediatly rewarded, you need to capitalize the buff advantage winning or not losing the fight.
Dunno how much the buff stays but numbers can be tweaked/balanced so it’s not really a problem.
I heard the map is really open, really few spot to kite and JP so professions with teleport will have good advantages here in a TOP tier skill level (when people know how to kite).
We’ll see, I think is a general interesting concept.
Yes ofc, top15 eu people continue to fight and train together, get better and the gap between usa teams is always bigger.
When the 3th eu team starts to beat every top us team, is pretty clear something needs to change for us team.
Biggest problem for usa is the astral composition, since Anet removed celestial + class stacking, Chaith, Wakkey and phantaram started to suffer a lot, They are not good enough, atleast not good as eu top15 boys.
Toker and Noscoc are always top tier, but if They don’t shake the team or Anet puts some op meta build easy to play (and the trend is different now) I don’t see many chance for them to win in the future.
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It was a nice stream except for the break music between games, really terrible and for the new map preview tech issue.
GG Denial, best team for sure, a nearly perfect gameplay, and very good performance from VM, with same little changes (Engi + necro combo is not really good) can be better.
Sind best commentary boy since forever.
Considering Ascended stuff is mandatory to do Fractals, add more ways to get them with pristine/frac relics would be nice.
And yeah t6 bags are always nice (I’d like to see t6bags in Raids too)
The only thing I’d like to see changed with dh is an higher skill floor.
I’ ve never played dh before of this season and I only needed some hours to play decently this prof and get good results.
And when you face the 99% of dh basically always the same skill feeling, is super rare to say “ok, this dh is really better than others”, basically are all in the same floor after some hours.
This copy&paste feeling only happens with dh in my experience, really more than other profs.
Temporary achievements + map selection is a bad combo.
No temporary achievements = map selection
Temporary achievements = no map selection
Thief for sure, to be effective you need to be really good, you need to have great map and momentum knowledge, great capacity to survive in fight and hitting at the right time.
In soloqueue many time depends on team composition and mates rotations, is not always effective for those reasons too.
3.SCORES: Let’s say you where lucky and had really nice matches and you had more than 200 points on scoreboard. System thinks that you dramatically improved so starts to give let’s say… PRO-League players…After I left sapphire (with 8 wining streak and average 200 score’s) I discovered something is not right when I suddenly realized I am fighting Drazeh for my close and rest of his team is mix of Rawr and TCG. I am not good enough to compete with this guys and nobody from my team so basically we were punished by swift progress.
Little clarification here, score means nothing about your progression, has 0 impact on your MMR and is strongly misleading, that’s the reason why Anet wants to change it.
Your MMR only depends on wins or losses, that’s all, doesn’t matter if you have 10 points or 200 points at game.
It’s a combination about how to identify the right player skill and profession/role.
MMR alone is not an amazing way to identify skill (Btw is not only a gw2 issue, is pretty spread among other games) because is only based on w/l and Your performance in Your team has only a 20% impact.
This 20% can be a little more with a teamspeak software and in a premade scenario but There are always other 4 players in Your team so you can do miracles unitil some threshold.
Another impactful thing is the team composition, the right balance about mobility/damage/fight solidity with the right role knowledge.
Both of them needs to be balanced and you can have a blowout game.
Can you change the little rank bonus with a little reward track bonus if people press Ready?
In my experience I think I have only like 1% of the games started early maybe a better reward can incentivate it.
Thx
Sounds interesting
The last one, the new capricorn, is pretty good, i hope They continue with the trend.
Hey Everyone,
Just wanted to jump in here and give a quick summary list of some of the feedback in this thread.
- Have treb take damage from condi’s and crits
- Rotation speed increase
- Remove Treb completely
- Faster fire rate
- Different treb amno that supports allies on points
- Teleport skill drop the siege bundle
Remember that this thread is a discussion between myself and you the community. I can’t promise any of the suggestions will be implemented or when. However, I am reading the thread and taking the feedback very seriously and passing it along to the PvP Team.
Now some additional questions:
- If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?
- How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?
- How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?
Thank you all for participating in the discussion and keeping is constructive.
Hugh, the key problem about boosting damage or rotation/Fire speed is how to balance treb at high and low tier.
I agree now treb at higher level is almost useless but buffing it too much can be absolutely too strong in low tier.
This is something you need to consider, be carefull.
In general i think rotation speed and faster Fire rate only for side nodes would be enough.
There is too much difference right now about trebbing mid and trebbing sides.
(edited by Phil.8901)
- Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
- Cap the range at which someone can rally.
- Bring back PvE-downstate policy
- Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
- Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)
Yes.
- Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
- Further reduce downstate HP
No.
+1
The pve downed penalty would be pretty interesting, maybe just tweak the numbers.
I think treb is pretty balanced just make it vulnerable to condi damage.
You can out rotate an enemy team without losing players on map, for example with a good strategy with portal mesmer.
At the end of the game you have more decapped nodes on your side stats, but it is not only that, this is why is not really easy translate in simple numbers many gw2 strategy/ actions.
When the other team’s lowest scoring player has more points then our top scoring player, and we still win the match XD
Here’s a match i had the other day. Perfect example:
Well, yes, it’s pretty evident they zerged the entire game creating too much overnumbered fights (like 3 vs 1) or zerging people far from nodes.
They rotated in a terrible way to lose a game like this.
They’ll retroactively add the title for S4 “Indomitable legend” after the season is over for legendary rank in S4.
I don’t find any official statement about this
Can you link the source pls?
Thanks
They’ll retroactively add the title for S4 “Indomitable legend” after the season is over for legendary rank in S4.
I don’t find any official statement about this
Can you link the source pls?
It would be meaningless. The average player doesn’t have the awareness to know what their optimal play is let alone knowing what the other 4people on their team should be doing. I’ve seen people go off on a bunker that kept 2 people at far the majority of the match, didn’t die and kept the node neutral the majority of the fight. They thought he was hurting the team because he want at mid or home.
And how do you translate in numbers to promote with a score system the bunker at far who holds 2 people + far neutral?
Simply can’t, that’s because an MVP system can help people to learn good behaviours, ofc at higher levels where people has more experience is more effective
But it can create curiosity at all levels, and force People to ask to themselves why a player was voted like MVP.
I’m not saying is always a perfect system but is really really better than what we have now and really more engaging.
The system I proposed would have rewarded that player. To me the scoring should closely reflect how points are gained as well as lost in the game. With out accounting for someone’s bad plays along with their positive plays you won’t have a score that is reprehensive of their contribution to the team. MVP might work at pro league level play, but the vast majority of the people would just be voting for friends or the person with the most creative name.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/My-favorite-thing/6306600
Dunno, it seems too much complicated and there are situations really important where the score is not capable to underline well the performance.
BTW in general an MVP system + a score rework can coexist without any issue.
It would be meaningless. The average player doesn’t have the awareness to know what their optimal play is let alone knowing what the other 4people on their team should be doing. I’ve seen people go off on a bunker that kept 2 people at far the majority of the match, didn’t die and kept the node neutral the majority of the fight. They thought he was hurting the team because he want at mid or home.
And how do you translate in numbers to promote with a score system the bunker at far who holds 2 people + far neutral?
Simply can’t, that’s because an MVP system can help people to learn good behaviours, ofc at higher levels where people has more experience is more effective
But it can create curiosity at all levels, and force People to ask to themselves why a player was voted like MVP.
I’m not saying is always a perfect system but is really really better than what we have now and really more engaging.
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