Guild Wars 2

People throwing around the term ‘hardcore’.
Hardcore players are those that invest a lot of time and money into the game, those that make the game their life and do nothing but play the game 24/7 and who have done most of the content at the highest level.

People who know how to play the game and not die constantly are not hardcore, they’re just average, casual players.
Yes, ‘casual’ players can afford to improve, it doesn’t take a lot of time to hover over the skills and read what they do.
‘’Oh, this skill knocks things back, maybe I shouldn’t push mobs out of all the AoE and that way it’ll die quicker’’.
If someone struggles with that kind of logic then they rightly shouldn’t be able to access or complete all of the content.
Rewarding players who put in a little more effort (not time – effort) doesn’t mean they’re punishing people who don’t put the effort in, the opportunity is still there.

People moaned when Sanctum Sprint was introduced, about them not getting a completely optional achievement because ’I’m casual’ or ‘my wrist hurts’, they all started vilifying people who could actually get the achievement, saying that if you had already won a race, you should stop at the finish line and let other people win.
They wanted their achievement handed to them by other players because they didn’t want to put in the effort of getting it themselves.

Not everyone can do all the content, and there is nothing wrong with that.
If ‘casual’ players don’t like challenge, there’s a whole market dedicated to them on mobile phones.

Adding my voice to this.
Nothing needed nerfing, it’s all either a learn to play issue or moaning from people that want everything in a week.
You never had to farm for anything, the specs and masteries are end game progression, not something you need to grind in an afternoon, you would get them from just playing the game.

The new content and maps are preparing people for the higher difficulty, if people can’t handle learning what’s on their skill bar or what their traits do we will see the same moaning about raids not being faceroll.

And then in a few months, after everyone is done moaning and everything is nerfed, those same people that wanted everything handed to them will complain that there’s no content.
The mass of people that wanted challenge and who have come back to HoT will leave again. ANet please stop listening to people that don’t want to play your game and want you to just give them everything.

It reminds me of when people complained that Witcher 3 had ‘too much’ content.
You mean you want to not play the game you bought?
In this case, people don’t want to play the game, but want all the rewards.

Going to agree with OP, everything people have whined about are just learn to play issues.
For 3 years now players have been spoonfed easy mode, they don’t have to do anything to get exotics, they don’t have to do much for ascended gear, you can easily play all of the Vanilla content without knowing how anything works or even what the skills on your skill bar do. (Looking at you rangers/mesmers that just spam all the longbow/greatsword skills and nothing else).
People got comfortable using their 1 weapon, settling on their traits and never changing them, getting their zerker exotics and not doing anything else to be decent at the game. The excuse of ’I’m casual’ is no reason to not know how your class works.

If you don’t want to be good at the game and this stuff isn’t important to you then great, but don’t expect to just be handed everything people who actually want to play or be good at the game get.

Now you can’t faceroll so easily, you have to change your gear, learn what your skills do and change your traits, it’s apparently ‘too hard’.
This content is supposed to ease people into raids and teach them what’s to be expected. If people find learning what’s on their skill bar to be too difficult I don’t hold out much hope for the raiding content.

Please ANet, don’t nerf this content, it doesn’t need nerfing, people just need to learn how to play the game. If you nerf this content you will have to nerf raids when people cry that they’re too difficult.
Not all of us want to be spoonfed, we want to play the game and earn our rewards.
There is a reason a large amount of players left the game because of lack of challenging content, now they’re back please don’t nerf everything again.

People forget, this is an expansion pack, not a living story update. If you don’t want to grind, don’t grind. There’s nothing wrong with unlocking stuff slowly, this content is supposed to last you months, not a few days or weeks.

What gets me is if you do anything but kiss their kitten you’re labelled as phobic, regardless of what it is.
Just because I disagree with it, as free speech allows me to, does not mean I’m scared of it, hate it, or hate the people belonging to that group.
I really couldn’t care what people choose to do with themselves, but if Anet keeps pushing the juvenile tumblr mindset I won’t be playing.

Just as well I never planned on buying HoT.
It’s a shame GW2 doesn’t have a very adult community.

infantrydiv.1620:

It always makes me laugh when someone tries to compare Guild Wars 2 to WoW.

First, WoW is a subscription based game. Pay for the base game, then pay for the expansion, and then pay to access the expansion. One year of WoW + 1 expansion is $240. Three years of Guild Wars 2 permanent access for $20-$60. In fact, most reasonable people would think that for a B2P game, getting 100-200 hours of gameplay out of it is fantastic value.

Second of all, you can’t really compare map and dungeon design from 2004 to today. I’d much rather have a few new GW2 dungeons and a raid than 15 TBC WoW Raids/Dungeons. Also, just look at the skills of classes in GW2 compared to WoW class/racial skills and take a gander at which would take longer to make.

Thirdly, I like WoW. I have an active WoW subscription. But I don’t for a minute think that WoW gives more content per dollar than Guild Wars 2.

Fourthly, have you personally experienced the new content yet? Have you seen how big the maps are, or what “masteries” include? Do you know the price of the expansion? If not, I don’t think you can comment on whether it’s ‘good content’ or not.

What? You don’t think GW2 makes a ton from their RNG boxes? You don’t think some people pour hundreds into buying gems? Don’t forget that it’s not only in the EU and NA anymore, it has income from China also.
If you have an active WoW sub then you should know that the TBC dungeons aren’t exactly small, sure you can bum-rush them now because everyone’s over-geared even at-level but at the time you had to take it slower. Not even mentioning the ‘heroic’ modes.

Sure I can compare 2004-05 dungeon and map sizes to those of today, those of 2005 were bigger and more interesting.

Looking at the skills/classes I’m not sure which would take longer to make. Probably about equal, since a lot of GW2’s skills are just AoE circles. The animation rigging would be somewhat equal certainly.

Trouble is that WoW does give content, Anet gives content and then removes it. Because… uh… um… …. huh… reasons… I guess?
WoW’s bugs are acknowledged and fixed ASAP, Anet was like ‘’Bug? What bug? There’s no bug, you just got unlucky.’’ More transparent I guess, but at least they pay attention to what is going on in their game.

‘Lastly’ did I ever claim I had played it? Have you played it? Do you know how big (or small) the maps will be? Masteries sound suspiciously similar to reputation grinds imo. Any price is too much for LS 3 and a feature pack that they claim to have been working on for 2 years. You really think over those 2 years, with everything they’ve made from gem sales this is acceptable as an ‘expansion’?

I know I must sound like a right WoW fanboy but there’s a reason it’s stayed so successful and GW2 is just leaking players.

Alexgoll.6378:

Pandaman.4758:

ANet can do this with the Largos (human body type) and Kodan (norn bodytype), but Tengu would require far more work than that.

Tengu in GW2 have charr body.
Armor not so big problem.

5-6 new full size maps require more work.
ANet didnt do any new full map from initial release (2,5 years)
New objects, new quests. This require really hard work.

Yep, and as we all know, if it takes more than the minimum amount of effort, ANet won’t do it.

Nope, absolutely not.
My reaction when watching the stream was ‘This is it?’
How long have they been working on this and this is what they have to show for it?

Now comparing to another, well known MMO’s first expansion;

Guild Wars 2:

3 New maps/tiers of unknown size
1 New class
‘Mastery’
More crafting
The class upgrade thingy
Cheap precursors
‘’More challenging group content’’
Guild Hall
GvG
WvW map no one cares about.

Burning Crusade:

1 New continent made up of 7 zones
2 New races
Faction class swap (Classes no longer exclusive to faction)
4 New smaller zones, including cities for both new races
5 Raids that I can remember
15 New dungeons
1 New PvP map
1 New crafting profession and updated other professions
New skills, flight etc.
And that’s not including the ‘Living World’ patches that included 1 new raid and 1 dungeon in just 1 patch.

Before you dogpile me with ‘’b-but we’ve had Living Story!‘’ the teams developing LS and that develop the XPac will be different.
The LS itself gives you a whole 2 hours of content including achievements(each patch), half of it is bugged that they either never fix, or stealth-fix a WHOLE MONTH LATER while denying any bug existed (Looking at you Annihilator).
While again, WoW has decimated 2 city HuBs (and fixed/redesigned them) and revamped it’s entire base world in one expansion and they don’t even claim this ‘revolutionary living story’.

And don’t even get me started on the fact that it is ALL TEMPORARY. Sure the maps like Southsun, Drytop and Silverwastes are permanent and the Breach is a mechanic that can always trigger. But it’s still time gated because of the playerbase.
Those that join in another year aren’t going to be able to see that content or get those items because everyone else has moved on.
The only thing that keeps the content padded out is the RNG grind.

This ‘expansion’ is nothing more than Living Story 3 and a Feature Pack rolled into a neat little package that they’re going to ask people to pay for. And a disgusting amount of people are only too happy to do so.
I don’t hold anything against people enjoying the game, but no one seems to care if the content is of good quality and so what incentive do ANet have to make anything good? You’ll pay for it anyway.

As someone else said, this only has the ‘expansion’ sticker slapped on it because it’s what people wanted to hear.
It was however hilarious watching Colin wait for applause and got nothing but the occasional pity-clap.

I like GW2 and I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I will be, so now is the time for me to uninstall and go elsewhere.

The whole goal is to get you to keep playing, otherwise they would fail as a business.
This is a F2P game and so you don’t feel the need to keep playing to get your moneys worth from the subscription that you’re paying.

Part of how to do that is the LS. Knowing that you might miss something kept you playing and I’m sure it worked for many others too.
Releasing it in ‘unlockable episodes’ as they’re doing now also keeps you playing.
Even if you don’t actively play it then and there, they’re keeping you logging in, which means you’re keeping it installed on your computer.

By knowing that you have to log in at least once every 2 weeks to unlock something you will otherwise have to pay for via gems, you will keep the game installed.
Even if you don’t play it immediately, it’s keeping the game in your mind and on your computer, otherwise many people would probably uninstall the game and completely forget about it and if they did think about giving it a go, the thought of having to install it again would be a deterrent.

panzer.6034:

Norns aren’t human or real and thus real-world evolutionary parallels don’t necessarily apply. Maybe they just have a range or skin tones the way sylvari have a crazy range of colors. Perhaps different lineages that worship different animals are close to that animal’s appearance (coloration).

Even though we know they’re as different a species as Asura are to Charr, the type of people that would call Anet racist are not the people who would play the game or even have an inkling of what it’s about or that Norn are a completely different species.
They resemble humans and by media standards, must obey human standards and constrictions.

My Norn is a big black woman, I just pretend it’s a genetic mutation, like Albinism.

I stopped playing my Charr, although I love them because they just don’t get enough Dev love. There’s like 9-10 armour sets that look any good and almost all Charr wear the same sets.
We need more accommodation for our tails.

I quite like T1 but I’m not too sure about the Helmet.
I don’t like T2 all that much and T3 isn’t bad.

Saying that my Charr is currently in T1 without the helm.

Here’s my lovely lady.
Reeva Snowfur, looking gorgeous with one of the new faces if I do say so myself.

Here’s mine:

Reeva Snowfur, level 22 in this screenshot.

My GW2 file has
‘chrome’ text file
Guild Wars 2 Repair shortcut
Crash.dmp
Gw2.dat
Gw2.tmp
Gw2.exe

It appears to make no difference if I run as administrator.

Thank you Tribble.
Neither option worked.

My browsing through my C:\Program Files (x86) and GW2 isn’t there (which is where all my other stuff is too). Browsing the rest of my C: drive and it’s not anywhere.
My GW2 file has always been the ‘Guild Wars 2 Beta’ file on my desktop.

Following the -repair instructions didn’t help and I got the same result as usual.
Deleting my GW2 file from my desktop and following the download instructions from the site doesn’t work either. I can download the GW2 Setup but then it opens, downloads 10690kb and closes again.
It doesn’t ask me if I want to setup, install or anything.

Searching for Guild Wars 2 in the search bar at the bottom of the windows program button only brings up the files from the desktop too.

I made a topic like this about a week ago and although I never got any help, I thought I’d fixed it myself.

My game client won’t launch. Whenever I go to start up the game, the launcher opens, downloads 10689kb of something, closes, and then nothing happens.

I can’t uninstall and re-download it because it’s not in the list of programs under ‘’Uninstall or change a program’’. If I just try to re-download the game, the same thing happens.

After a bit of searching someone suggested deleting the .exe file and downloading a new one. I can’t download it because it won’t let me so a friend sent me his up-to-date .exe file. That worked and I was able to play for a while.
Now I assume there’s been another update and my client is messed up again.

I got the digital version and so I don’t have a disc to install from either.

Everything worked fine up until the SAB update and I haven’t really been able to play since. I guess this is the end of my GW2 days?

Does anyone know what I could do about it?

Edit: Or does anyone know how I could uninstall it without it under the ‘uninstall or change a program’ list?

It’s P2W because it does give you an advantage over other players.
ANet said Trib mode would be so ‘hard’ that they didn’t expect many people to have the Trib mode skins.
With the Infinite Coin you’re pretty much guaranteed those items, all you have to do is follow a guide and no matter how many times you fail you can just try again.
It’s giving you infinite lives, much like any cheat code in any other game that gives you infinite lives.
With this coin ANet have essentially taken the challenge out of Trib mode.

The people insisting it’s not P2W are probably those who have bought it and don’t like the fact that their ‘method’ of getting the achievements or skins is considered cheap or cheating. It’s may be a small-scale P2W, it’s not exactly selling ‘Epic Uber Sword of Smiting +99’ but it’s still P2W.

Update: I deleted the .exe file from the folder and got a friend to send me a new .exe file.
Everything’s working now.

Hey guys.

I haven’t played GW2 since about the 2nd Sept, but when I tried to start the game up to play with the SAB the game won’t launch.
Everything has worked fine up until this.

I double click my GW2 shortcut and I get the dialog box asking me if I want to run it and then nothing happens. The launcher won’t come up and it doesn’t crash as I get no error message. I can’t uninstall it from ‘’Uninstall or change a program’’ so that I can reinstall.

I tried deleting the files and re-downloading but the setup opens, downloads 10649kb of something and then closes. Nothing happens after that.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

Edit: I bought the digital copy and so have no disc to install from.

Ah yes, thank you nikotuck.

Hey guys.
Since one of the latest updates, I’ve noticed in cities and even out in the world, player characters have became generic people with basic pink gear.
Is this part of the attempt to stop culling?
Is there an option to turn it off?

Doesn’t it kind of take away from the end game if no one can actually see the character you’ve gathered cool looking items for?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding something or I’m a little late but it’d be great if someone could clear this up for me.

In a heartbeat.
I can’t stand the female Norn voice and she would instantly become a cuddly Charr.

So my little Ranger’s only level 53 at the moment and so far I’ve only been using SB/GS with a Jungle Stalker/Bear because… faceroll…

Anyway, I know this isn’t the most effective way to play a ranger and since I’d like to drastically improve I’d like advice on when to use what weapons.
Browsing these forums I’ve gathered that the better weapons would be S/WH and LB but I’d like to know when you should be using melee and when you should be weapon swapping.

MidnightX.6294:

how am i supposed to do it as ranger? seriously…
i wont roll a stupid berserk warrior just for an t4 achivement !
ive tried with 2 people, 3 people, 4 people,… tanky grp, dmg… solo…. everything!
anet must hate rangers.

ANet don’t hate Rangers, they hate everything that’s not Warrior or Guardian. Maybe Thief gets a lick of the favoritism lolly too, but if you play a class that’s not one of those, you better get the lube ready.

I’m voting Evon because he’s a Charr and I don’t trust those sneaky humans.

Me too
/15 characters

Pennry.9215:

The problem I have with Trahearne was that he spent most of the time whining. “This won’t end well” seemed to be all he ever said. He moans when things don’t go exactly as he wants. This baffles me as to why every other NPC wanted him to be in charge. Why would one follow a whining, pessimistic brat? Then add in the fact that he comes out of nowhere, just some NPC telling you they know him..

I suspect the NPC that introduces you is just pawning him off on you and hoping he gets himself killed. He’s so annoying even the other NPCs can’t stand him.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I don’t think they are but if they do I think it would be cool if it was tiered. 5 first place wins and you move to the next bracket, 10 the next and so forth. That way people of various levels would be competing against those with the same basic knowledge of the game.

That would be awesome.
I hope it does stay but I have the feeling that it won’t.

So you bought gems outside of the timeline and are complaining because you weren’t included in the little bonus gift.
Why would you get a free item that you’re not entitled to? This is like when the free minis were given out and the people that didn’t buy gems were whining for not getting something for something they didn’t participate in.
I look forward to your gratitude thread when you get the next little gift that includes the current month.

Yes. I quite agree.

I’m a Norn, and we’re not so judgmental.
Until they do something dreadful, they’re both alright in my book.

*Battle Royale

Fixed for you. OT: It looks like fun, I never got to join the Beta one so I’m looking forward to it.

Yes, I’m having trouble with Andul too. I’ve been trying for the past hour and I just can’t do it. Even if it starts off well, it all goes downhill very quickly.

Ugh this was a long time ago and I can’t remember where it was, but there was a load of children playing together.

Charr cub: Hey, why are we playing together, aren’t Humans supposed to hate us Charr?
Human child: You’re my best friend no matter what the adults do!

Not exclusively a Charr thing and that’s the basics I can remember, but I thought it was quite sweet. If anyone knows where this is, feel free to post the proper version

My suggestion/request is for a race change item in the gem store. Charge what you like within reason. 800 – 1200 gems maybe.
I’ve leveled a character all the way to 80 and use her as a main but I’m really wishing I had made her a Charr and not a Norn.
I don’t really want to start over and I can’t be the only one in this situation. An item that did this would be very helpful.

The only issue I see is the personal story stuff and I don’t really have a suggestion around it.
Have ANet said if there’s ever a race change planned or if it’ll never ever be an option?

Yes please, it would add a lot of personality to the forum.

I like the Zenith skins and my Norn Ranger is currently using the shortbow. I’m not sure what I should unlock next as I’m a bit of an altoholic.
For me these skins are dazzling but they’re not amazingly better than other skins. I’ll be using them as my alts level since they’re unlimited = unlimited transmutes but once a character hits 80 I’ll be looking for other awesome skins.
These will be purely leveling weapons for me.

/signed
It would be great for such skins as SAB stuff, and Jade Dragon tickets that people can and have accidentally salvaged.
I love what they’ve done with the Zenith weapons being in a kind of ‘wardrobe’ and being able to withdraw them on any toon anywhere in the world. It’s one step closer but it needs to include the Gem Store and event skins we ‘unlock’.

New animation looks terrible on any race, these wings were so gorgeous but now I’m glad there’s an option to hide your back piece.

Elbegast.6970:

The frequent Living Story updates have caused me to quit playing. I don’t enjoy being forced to adhere to a gaming schedule in order to complete new content. Not to mention the content itself seems to be very bland and uninspired.

This pretty much. I don’t like the feeling of being forced to play the game else I’ll be missing out on everything. The new stuff does seem very… tired.
Updating constantly is a bad idea imo, as they’ll eventually run out of ideas or options. Better to have larger updates less often than small and boring updates every fortnight.

The Flame & Frost thing was good in the way that it was a large ‘living story’. There was a new update to it every week or so was it? But you could always go back and complete the previous steps. There was also plenty of time to do it in and even if you didn’t pay much attention to the story text, it was easy to follow what was happening.

The novelty of these smaller updates will quickly wear off but I know I’m still going to feel like I’m forced to play. Strangely more so than I felt while paying for WoW.
I’d rather them concentrate on fixing bugs and broken classes than small updates that don’t matter. (Yea I know different teams, but people could still be reallocated).

Serraphin Storm.2369:

They haven’t given Rangers a permant aoe reduction for pets because it would be OP. Same for the pet moving issue. IF pet only missed when players dodge it would be OP.

I really hate to compare to WoW, but will do so because Blizz have managed to get their pet system almost perfect (as would be expected for a 9 year old game).
The AoE damage reduction would only have to be for PvE, where would that be OP? Even if it was for PvP too, why would that be OP? Should other classes be able to instantly reduce a Rangers damage by 40%?
With the moving issue, again why would it be OP? If they changed it so pets only did about 20% of the Rangers overall damage it would be more of a nuisance than life-threatening. Pets not hitting moving targets is a broken pet, what about the PvE implications when mobs move and the pet becomes useless?

Again, pets in WoW can hit moving targets but in comparison to the hunter or any other player for that matter, do minuscule damage.
I hate comparing this game to WoW, but there’s no shame in learning from those who have had the experience and who have succeeded.

Aden Celeste.3650:

Raesin.2908:

Aden Celeste.3650:

Honestly I was so hyped before GW2 launched, thinking “Finally, a true ranger class!”, i used to dream of roaming with my trusty pet that I could name (although we all know not even that has been added after months of the game being out). And when I realized this profession could use greatswords… I was so excited!

You know you can rename your pet right, that was available since beta weekends.

You can rename it, but the name wont stay if you change your pet. And if you go back to the renamed pet, its name will be back to juvenile.

Nope, just tried it, the name stays to what you renamed it to.

Aden Celeste.3650:

Honestly I was so hyped before GW2 launched, thinking “Finally, a true ranger class!”, i used to dream of roaming with my trusty pet that I could name (although we all know not even that has been added after months of the game being out). And when I realized this profession could use greatswords… I was so excited!

You know you can rename your pet right, that was available since beta weekends.

Razor.9872:

And still, I trudge on. Through the fire and the flames. Through nerf guns and haters. Through bugs and exclusions…

I trudge on.

Hoping, one day, whether it take a year, or perhaps three, or even if I have to wait a decade…people will post “LF xxxx Ranger.”

Patient ranger waits.

Patient ranger sits.

Patient ranger, is patient. -_-

This ^
In the ‘other MMO’ I stuck with my class even when it was the laughing stock of the game. Eventually, it became the FotM class for a long time.
The people that like that class and enjoy their characters will find a way to make it the best it can be at the time, the people that want to roll FotM will jump ship.
We just need Anet to take a leaf from Blizz’s book and look at what they did with their pet class and how they handled splitting the damage.

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

Raesin.2908:

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

My guildies received this too, and only the ones that paid real money for the gems. So with this I presume they didn’t put the box in TP on purpose, those who pay real money get the privilege of getting it first and free.

To the ones that can’t or didn’t spend real money (which I happen to be one of them) they have to wait and of course won’t be getting it free either.

Thanks, I won’t forget such an insult.

Are you really that bitter about getting things either a few days later or having to pay?
It’s like asking why the mechanic won’t fix your car when you refuse to pay him.

Your reply doesn’t make any sense, If I had to take my car or anything else that needs a repair I would surely pay for the service, My point is completely different than that.

I paid for the game like everyone else, just because others have bought gems with real money that doesn’t mean they should get a better treatment.

If this was one of the many free to play (F2P) games out there I wouldn’t have anything to say.

This is one of the many F2P games out there. Granted the majority of F2P games are Korean grinders, they’re still F2P.
People that have bought gems with real money aren’t getting better treatment, they’re getting a small gift that doesn’t affect the game at all. If they were getting a major experience boost or a weapon with godly stats for example, then I would understand and probably agree with you.

But getting this kitten over something that doesn’t matter is what I don’t understand. Even if I wasn’t one of the people that received the gift, I wouldn’t care in the slightest.
Oh, only the people that bought gems with cash got the gift? Good for them. Maybe it would even persuade me to spend a little on it since ANet haven’t forgotten them.

tfwzyko.3516:

Doggie.3184:

It’s just a gift for supporting the game since launch. It’s not asking you to do anything, you already did it.
You should feel warm and toasty.

i thought preordering the game and playing since launch was supporting the game but meh… i must be wrong, right?

Maybe if you were buying an Xbox game.
MMOs require constant income since they’re constantly in development. The ANet team still need to eat even after they’ve released the game.
Since the game is F2P I’m one who doesn’t mind paying a little now and again if there’s something that I want (not for the gambling, but that’s a whole other topic), and I know that it goes toward something I enjoy and am willing to support.

You’re welcome.

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

My guildies received this too, and only the ones that paid real money for the gems. So with this I presume they didn’t put the box in TP on purpose, those who pay real money get the privilege of getting it first and free.

To the ones that can’t or didn’t spend real money (which I happen to be one of them) they have to wait and of course won’t be getting it free either.

Thanks, I won’t forget such an insult.

Are you really that bitter about getting things either a few days later or having to pay?
It’s like asking why the mechanic won’t fix your car when you refuse to pay him.

I’m not a male but am still born of the Pale Tree.
You have my sympathies and my bumping support.

Ricaan Rosewell – 7/10 I don’t like Ricaan much but as a whole the name sounds good, it’s fun to say.

My (ferocious) white/grey Sylvari Mesmer – Reeva Ashleaf

Mine use Female face #5 and #7