Guild Wars 2

Also any plans to write up a Power build guide? I have a couple of ideas but as it stands I’m just too lazy to bother formulating them into a coherent guide

Good to see people helping the community

@Lopez

Thanks for your response and theorycraft, its made me rethink my original 10 spite trait. Also there were a couple of inaccuracies in my original post (tends to happen when I reply late at night)

I fully agree with the 30 points in curses
I would then tend to put 10-20 points into death for Greater Marks (very useful), Pet health (somewhat useful) and the passive boon duration
I would then place 20-30 points in spite for 30% pet dps for flesh (very useful when exploiting with worm and general flesh), close to death seomwhat useful – I am now considering using the first 10 points on signet mastery details to follow

I am not sure I agree with those 10 points in blood and the potential full 30 in death (provided you put the last 10 points there). This is because the power gain from toughness from 25 is somewhat redundant compared to spites passive line. Furthermore the mark cooldown still seems to me to be a little excessive given the nature of trash in dungeons meaning I rarely pop more than one epidemic and 1-2 round on marks – though you mey personally disagree

What is your current aoe rotation (may help me get a feel for the build you use)?

As it stands I think the “best” condition dungeons specs are either
http://tinyurl.com/btb79ww – 20/30/20 with pet surviveability + 10% boon duration
http://tinyurl.com/cl4owt9 – 30/30/10 – with close to death (doesnt apply to conditions)

I imagine the first utility slot could be freely interchangeable depending on the situation

For example trash and “easy” bosses – plague signet for some group utility and a little dps
Harder bosses such as volcano fractals 30+ ress signet
Bosses where worm can be used exploitative i.e. ice – worm

Also lets keep this discussion going its far more interesting than necros suck!

In response to your last post I haven’t quite found a use for poisen cloud, I think it needs a buff personally

In terms of utility loss from using worm I think that’s addressed in my proposed suggestion, also not sure about you but I find corrupt boon is only applicable to dredge fractal and even then its pretty meh

@Lopez,

Very nice guide, couple of comments from a dungeon cond. necro

I am in fully agreement with your curses trait line, though I am not sure I agree with all 20 in death, would those points not be better spent in spite

Now I realise you put the comment LoL next to minions however despite the gleaming AI issues, in PvE worm and shade do awesome dps and are actually very viable (when traited), worm in particular for bosses. Flesh can be used as your perm. elite contributing even more dps due to +30%

I’m also disagreement on staff mastery, in my standard aoe rotation fast marks is simply not needed – its overkill and better suited for WvW

This would give you something like

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNArYWjMa96pbub07JCpCPDSx7lW0DiZskB;T8AAzypESJlSNlSKqmMNJay2krJZTrFGVMDA

Those last 10 points could be spent in spite for close to death (doesn’t apply to conditions) or minion health in death, however in fractals +30 most boss attacks will one shot pets (unless you exploit worm placement on certain bosses)

You will also notice I use reapers might (despite your criticisms) this is because my norm single target rotation goes something like

Scepter 2, dagger 4, BiP, dagger 4 (+epidemic is necessary), Scepter 3, Enter DS, Life transfer (if necessary), Lifeblast x 3, Exit, Repeat

Those lifeblasts (due to fury) tend to all crit in the region of 2k depending on conditions, surely this would exceed the equivalent scepter dmg while still granting you might to still buff your bleeds

Your post states that the necro would stay in DS for 5 lifeblasts – this is overkill 3 is the magic number due to fury. Furthermore because the revised build provides cond duration you can maintain bleed stacks better

I would also be interested in looking more into the might stacking rune build, we did some basic theory crafting in another thread pre-ascended I believe might stacking came out marginally on top provided you could maintain more than 16 stacks consistently which is easily achievable with certain sigils traits and runes(I will look for the thread later)

Also I think we need to encourage a discussion on Rampager gear to supplement rabid, I am in two minds over rabid gear (as someone who wears full rabid lol) I think we may be limiting ourselves to much in terms of power to buff our base attack

Also on a separate unrelated note try pairing wrath die with abyss on Arah – it looks bad kitten well at least on a female char :P

Cool guide once again, apologies for any inaccuracies, sp’s its late here

Nope, still broke

Sorry think people misunderstood

It’s called Consume Conditions

Would you like to know more
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions

don’t forget Arah lolol

Copy/paste links this forum doesnt like ; alternatively post links using tiny URL.

I would disagree with carrion offsets, I am still doing the theorycrafting on it but certain pieces of your armour should be swapped out for Rampagers for an increase in dmg while losing some survivability

I think low value item slots (atleast from a power perspective) are head legs chest and rings

This thread is freakin awesome…. seriously freakin awesome

Yeh pretty much agree with all of those

I personally would add DS UI (though they have already suggested they are looking into this)

Rabid gear is better than Carrion in every possible way, search any of the many posts on this for clarification

1) Plague signet can be a liability in certain dungeons with bosses that immobilize (Arah 3), the cooldown is also quite long and you lose the passive ability on cd. The signet also transfers the 1st condition the rest are copied (stupid mechanic if you ask me)
2) Vitality is not needed in dungeons, if you want to support your team I would advise a well-centric build
3) Rabid

As for the build signet recharge is pretty meh, Mark dmg is equally meh on a condition build 10% contributes only a fraction to your dps. Close to death is fine but remember it doesnt apply to condition damage (not sure whether this is a bug or not)

Curses and Death are fine I would agree with all those traits

In terms of runes look for undead, sigils of earth, of agony and of corruption respectively

Edit: Your english is fine

res.4961:

I’d also like to suggest an ability that removes conditions; although we are capable of transferring conditions to our enemies the skills that do this have very long cooldowns and one often finds oneself after an encounter having killed everything but still getting downed because you have poison/bleed and no enemies to pass it on to.

Seriously your going to post that and expect me take you seriously, have you actually ever played a necro?

I sense troll

So let me get this right…

You created a thread titled “Fixing Necromancers”

Not once did you offer a single suggestion on how to improve the necromancer, instead you just list off “apparent” faults with the class while somehow glossing over the the glaring issues concerning pet AI and necro UI

When you create one of these threads, just stop and think, do we really need another one of these posts? Am I actually contributing something useful of just endless whine?

Also lack of invisibility? really? since when did we become a thief, I must have missed that in the patch notes

One last post for the fun of it

Rising Duck I fully agree with you on that last point and I would applaud you to create threads that offer up suggestions to the develops, suggesting alternatives, utilities and ways to improve the class

These “nerf” posts add very little to the conversation. Whine threads are a plague on thie forum and its part of the reason I feel we get apparently ‘snubbed’ by the developers

Would you want to read these threads as your job, I barely enjoy it as a hobby lol

Just look a few threads back, the developer is quick to respond to a post where we were discussing pet pathing issues and investigating issues ourselves

Even the reanimator issues (which is just poorly designed and placed within the traitline) has been incorrectly resolved because half the threads on this forum read something along the lines of “OMG reanimtaor dies in 3 secs” at the time

A developer reads that and what do you expect they will do… make reanimtaor last longer…. wait that’s not what we wanted

This thread which has been burning for days garners no attention, not even from the moderators – I got one infraction this entire time and that was for implying someone was too negative in their views

Can we just try and be a little more positive in the future.

Lets try and make this forum a more positive place, I get people are frustrated but you can clearly see whining has got us nowhere at this point.

Yes that’s exactly it…

Or maybe just maybe I was tired of logging into the forums and reading inane whine posts, most of which are based on out of date and ill informed information

Sometimes when your surrounded by ignorance it’s best to just shout louder, if you want to continue believing your class is no longer viable that’s your decision

Every post made after the OP, including the one where I explained my dungeon experience and why we are still viable were made in response to ignorant posts

I will stick to my original plan for now, let this thread die as they normally do and direct future inane whine posts to Sheobix’s old post

Much simpler

99% of the content is pugable at this moment, the change as I have said time and time again is insignificant in the grand scheme of things

Provided you are traited for fury on enterting DS, pop life transfer (if aoe’ing) and cast life blast 3 times

Above 3-4 life blasts and you will notice your lifeforce use becomes unsustinable in a number of builds without LF generating abilities like condition builds, the first 3 lifeblasts are also affected by fury and do more damage because life force is above 50%

This is more targeted at end game, I assum you are level 8 not, at low level wells and DS 4 are your best choices

Interesting, random question

What dyes are you using?

Sorry I was probably abit unclear in my response, at this juncture I would only pursue ledgendaries if they offer you the skin you want or you are willing to invest the time, the stat bonus is somewhat negligable unless you are the min/max kind of player

As a necro they offer me neither, because of this I plan on pursuing an exoctic skin and the transmuting it to ascended stats (which I imagine will become easier obtain in the future – pure speculation at this point because they don’t exist) provided I still prefer my exoctic skin over the ascended gear look

Power build

Variations on
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNAodWjMap7ZaWaM8JCoH569OL+AyoZsO2B;TUArIGEcI4RwEDA

Condition build

Variations on
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYbjMa16pbub07JCpCPD6x7lmzieQMjlMA;TsAAzCpoay0koJbTumkNtWYUxMAA

Copy/Paste URL

Edit: Yes that build is perfectly viable (though designed for PvP – with some questionable utilities), the builds I provided are designed for doing damage in dungeons/PvE but can be adjusted for WvW not sPvP

Need more info post here or private msg

This whole build just seems very confused to me

Healing support builds are not presently viable,+healing does not apply to vamp traits

Well support builds are viable see Xyi’s post on guru forums

Alternatively there are power and conditions and hybrids there of – lots of dicussion on these forums

Cond will serve you better in aoe situations
Power in single target situations,

Each has strengths and weaknesses

This may be of some use,

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Conditionmancer-Dungeon-Equipment/first#post815565

Discussion on power/cond might stacking builds

Edit: Please note that theorycrafting was done pre rabid accesories and pre-ascended but the theory behind it still stands

Sheobix.8796:

well, savan still thinks this is a “necros are broken” thread when it really is just a “we’re kitten that fear is kind of pointless in dungeons” thread.

I get where you’re coming from and I understand you are frustrated with the changes in the way fear works against defiance. While the intention of your posts may have been genuine and you were simply trying to communicate your frustrations, a number of other necros in this particular thread insist on railroading the discussion into a necromancers are no longer viable/contribute nothing to dungeons – which frankly is absurd

I always find it funny when pvp’ers insist they are right despite never stepping foot in “end” game PvE. I imagine much of the community is slowly tiring of the barrage of whine that continues to plague this forum. I understand PvP is in a bad place right now, however PvE is just fine – thanks for asking.

Since I’ve joined this discussion I’ve been accused of not knowing my class, not playing MMO’s and flaming, the fact it necromancers are still as viable as they we pre-patch. Any necromancer who has spent any length of time in dungeons is aware of that.
As for misinterpreting posts, read the previous posts or better yet look in other threads where this inane rambling has been repeated parrot fashion
I understand you’re frustrated; I really do but your frustrations like much of the whine on this forum is misplaced and misguided.

does mediocre damage, has mediocre support, is as intuitive as a Zulu translation of Shakespeare, and is severely lacking in the powers of its own namesake… minions.

I genuinely don’t understand why you insist that we are monumentally flawed, if we have so many issues then why exactly do you continue to play this class and if you no longer play necromancer, why do you contribute inane ramblings to discussions you clearly know nothing about?

If you insist in gearing/playing incorrectly you will “feel” like you contribute nothing to dungeons, that has been true since Everquest

@Xil, we get it you are a troll, no need to sugar coat it

Tl;dr Necromancer are still viable in endgame PVE, this change is insignificant in the grand scheme of things

I’m self important? ooo I feel so warm inside

so hunters yeh? OP yeh?

XiL.4318:

In this thread two players who understand Necro are forced to defensively argue their perspective against ftards that probably play HB warrior or shortbow thief. Necro has been consistantly screwed over since the middle of beta and nothing is changing. I had some hope with this last patch that finally some positive changes would be made.

That did not happen. Necro is now the worst possible choice you can make for all available content outside of the first 30 levels of Overland PvE content.

Sorry who are these two necros? I’ve searched high and low but none to be found

XiL.4318:

They screwed over Minions in beta without regard to Necro as well. Guess what? Ranger pets do everything Necro minions are supposed to do now, yet Necro Minions are still 100% garbage outside of Flesh Golem for charge (every 45 seconds you get a single useful knockdown… and Flesh Worm which offers you a teleport escape. That is it.

So where exactly are you pullin your optimism from? And does it involve the processing of fully digested food?

Yes I agree fully those hunters pets are soo awesome, lets get me some hunter pets

Oh wait no they aren’t

striker.3704:

Savan I don’t think you even play necromancer to be honest if you can’t see how large an impact losing the only guarenteed interrupt we had is.

Hell, if you can’t see how big an impact it is period I don’t think you play MMOs at all.

Ok..

First I will start with

http://i49.tinypic.com/2iuqm9u.jpg

No idea why this had to degenerate into a male genitalia waving contest so quickly but for the sake of argument I will entertain you.

This sir is a picture of me in a level 31 fractal in full Arah gear. I managed to get all this way without being a liability to my team or relying on fear to carry my group.

Look at that I’m even using a suitable weapon to attack and yes I have been playing MMO’s for a long time (former WoW necromancer if you are curious you probaly are not)

Its funny you even class Butcher and the Howler as heavy dps bosses…. how far have you actually gone in Fractals….

I accept the removal of fear through defiance may have broken your character but mine is fine and dandy, thank you for asking

I imagine this thread will degenerate quickly and before someone posts another pic of them in a 50 fractal you should be aware of the following:

1) I stopped at 30 to get my second infused ring so I wasn’t a liability to my team
2) I don’t play enough to run 4 daily fractals so figured 30 is the effective cap
3) You are still wrong on the original point of this appalling thread, this change did not break the game

Edit: WTF is flesh golem charge?

Brujeria.7536:

I would however prefer a lifesteal condition:

- Damage somewhere between poison and burning
- Deals damage and heals you over time
- Rather slow duration, stacks in duration
- Caused by some Necro skills
(- Maybe let it scale off Condition Damage AND Healing power at a balanced rate)

Would fit into the attrition based concept, he gets weaker over time while u get stronger, perfectly for longer battles.

In before they announce it

Trait: Tainted blood

Your inflicted bleeds regenerate your HP for x% damage inflicted

Awesome idea, I prefer this forum so much more when I see threads like these and not Necros suck!

The best way to ress downed teamates is spy kits, I find mobs tend to target players that are ressing. In high level content no about of vitality will help you if you don’t dodge an agony attack

Kardiamond.6952:

@Savan

Fear is a condition, not a real CC.

It’s not cheaper then any other abilities in the game.

Our fear is now both affected by defiance/stability AND condition resist/removal/immunity.

Other CC can’t be removed, They last until done.

Fear is condition, and should be threated as such.

I get it your angry, Fear no longer works against defiance

Fear is a condition yes, but no Anet don’t want you using it like other conditions, otherwise why else would they make this change – sorry

You know what has previously been shown to work really well when trying to make your point and improve our class, whine threads (note the sarcasm)

Let’s make loads and loads of whine threads about broken traits and utilities that will show them (may even discourage them from looking at these forums)

That’s what we did with reanimator and guess what we got reanimator mkII (now lasts a little longer) – that fixed everything (yes still being sarcastic)

Or maybe just maybe we can quit with the whine and use these forums productively

Please note:

To be clear part of me dislikes this change because we lost something we previously had

However, it did not “break” our class we are equally viable as pre-patch

You just suck (not targeted at anyone inparticular) – but claiming we are no longer viable in dungeons is kitten /p>

Knight paired with berserkers is strictly for power builds

Rabid should be supplemented with rampagers for condition specs

Toughness is very useful for cond specs due to undead runes and focussing crystals wich add cond damage, you were provided mis-information

I would farm a full rabid set yes, but I would also looking at supplementing some low value pieces with rampagers you lose some cond damage (thanks Hugo the great) but gain power to supplement dps.

I still use minions in dungeons (traited) look at my previous posts for builds etc

@Paniolo
Apoligies for the rather brash response, I’ve come to expect ignorant posts in this particular thread

Looking at you gamefreak, didnt realise you were commenting on my posts without even stepping foot in fractals

Anyway I agree with a lot of what you have said, the thing is I think its more an issue that some players feel we don’t contribute much to dungeons (I disagree with this but meh, personal oppinion). It is partly upto to Anet to make us feel like our class is valued in dungeons, the rest is down to us I am afraid.

On a personal note I would prefer if this resource (our forum) was used to develop builds and playstyles to help new players as opposed to using it as a platform to shout necros suck! at the top of our voices

The fact is the fear defiance thing was cheap, I would compare it to a crappy party trick, everyone looks at it and was like cool awesome, but in the grand scheme of thing doesn’t have much value

I would rather have access to more grand and awesome magic traits (I mean utilities and abilitities) that would make me feel valued

Note: I do feel valued at present, and for all of those whining about PVE dungeons I will post a compendium to help new players in the next few days. Feel free to cricticise it/me then

No +healing does not apply

Before you decide weapons you need to ask yourself whether you want to run
a) condition spec or hybrid of – AOE dps
b) power spec or hybrid of – Single target dps
c) Minion master of hybrid of (note this is presently broken-ish)

Also power toughness vitality is not needed in PVE dungeons, that post is a WvW spec

See previous posts,

I get people want fear through defiance back, but the problem is it gives an unfair advantage (I think the benefit is negligable in the grand scheme of things) to the necromancer class or any class that can fear

If you are relying on fear to the point at whch you are no-longer viable in dungeon then thats a product of your gear/utilities/playstyle – everyone is just as fine as pre-patch

Kardiamond.6952:

@Bichpwner
@Savan

Way to think you guys are so much better then the less.

Savan : I don’t know how you got to lvl 30 fractal and you are still clueless about fear.

But I see what you mean, a Necro staying behind only auto attacking doesn’t need fear. Seems like that’s the gameplay you want for us.

“Thank god there are still non-feral necros on this forum”

So your best ally here, is the only guy that decided to insult everyone on the forum, whose name is “Bichpwner”. This is your example of non-feral necro? You can stay with him. I will stay with the rest of the communty.

We might whine a bit, but we have some good reason. If we don’t whine, they don’t know. Just check Minion AI and reanimator for example, They didn’t know about it even if we posted it many time. We had to make numerous post to finaly get it checked upon.

At no point did I say I was better than the rest of the community but thankyou for the compliment none the less

Did you ever think Anet avoid this particular forum because it is just full of whine posts (half of which are based on out of date information). How is a new player meant to get on and improve when all they read is Mesmers are better, Necros suck in dungeons etc

As for there being 2 of us and the rest of the majority, I think you will find that the majority of the community think a) necros are fine or b) necros has some issues that need addressing, of which most including myself feel are long term issues (i.e. can’t be resolved overnight) including DS UI, axe dmg, pet AI and potential the viability of vamp specs

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-community-survey-Post-Patch/first

@Kardiamond.6952 I know what fear is thank you, if you read my posts (which I assume you didn’t) I think you will find I mentioned that this intentional change is not gamebreaking (provided you are appropriately geared and traited) and if it is for you then guess what….

you’re doing it wrong

The term feral is not mine personally, it was previously suggested by a fellow necromancer that pointed out the rediculous amounts of whine on this forum. Anyone who disagrees that necros are broken is instincitively jumped on, much like a feral pack would

The fact is we have issues, they are long term issues and no they are not game breaking

Edit: Funny thing about Reanimator, look at how well whining worked, most of the community think it is in a equally worse state after being patched

If people had suggested alterenatives to the trait itself as opposed to “Reanimitor dies in 5 secs (at low level) OMG WTF” which was the vast number of ill-informed posts then maybe just maybe you would have got a better change

Andele.1306:

Necromancers could become a actually interesting and usable class in dungeons.

Sorry, I don’t get where you’re coming from?

Also did we need another of these posts, crap is crap however much you sugar coat it as a revolutionary idea

Think before you post

Edit: Slight improvement on the previous whine post that someone made on this topic. Its nice that people are offering alternatives and suggestions, still the subject of the post is not as gamebreaking as posters on this forum would have you believe

Dispari.3980:

What can you do in 1s?

Create another whine thread

Bichpwner.4012:

They fixed a bug. It does not ruin the class in dungeons, it barely changes anything (fear is 1s anyway wtf can you do in 1s?). Stop making the Necro forum community look like whiny ignorant kitten

Thank god there are still non-feral necros on this forum

you know whats awesome….. transmute

Funny thing about the post is that it is complete speculation at this point

Technically yes, in standard cond builds precision is preffered to power because it helps stacking bleeds and it contributes more to dps

With Rabid gear + and undead you can gain additional condition damage

The consensus is still out on the optimum amount of Rabid and Rampager pieces to use but for now I would focus on building a complete Rabid set

Also toughness is preffered to vitality because of undead runes and focussing crystal

I get where your going but I think it would suffer from the following issues
a) It would be incredibly boring if it offered no unique skills, you could have the same experience by stacking vitality on any other class
b) Gaining LF while in LF (with the exception of life transfer) would be a little OP
c) I think it would be a little OP, I get the impression Anet want us to use DS tactically as opposed to a second life button

Some form of DS dump would be interesting, like a unique summon aoe bleed and chill, next 3 abilities crit – could be tailored for each individual spec

Halo.8976:

Manticore Five.9867:

Don’t worry. Savan said we can just dodge! I’m sure that any minute he’ll be here with his Necro Vigor build so we can dodge a lot, just like he says.

It’ll cost you about 10g of sigils to build Necro Vigor and then say good bye to staff.
I have one question: where are my 10 free gold to make that happen? Sure anet must provide us with it, since we’re only class without vigor/block.

That suggestion is just kitten though it does kind of support the spoilt brat mentality of alot of the necros here that prefer to just whine and complain until they get things their way

Patience is a virtue

Undead runes → Standard PVE condition
Strength/of fire/Holebrak – Stack’o’mancer PVE condition

3xKrait and 3xAfflicted is weak because it can result in duration capping when paired with spite and food, damage is preffered to duration in WvW due to passive cond removal, mobs die quite quickly in PvE

3) without the sarcasm

I accept we have issues but they are not so major to to discourage me from playing the class I enjoy

As it stands I see the current issues as:
Pet AI
DS UI
Overeliance on staff secondary and underwhelming axe

Acelerion.6820:

In wvw epidemic is one of the few ways to bust a zerg. Ill be really cheesed if they nerf it.

Its unlikely that this nerf (if it hits epidemic) will affect WvWvW, WvWvW is treated as PvE by the developers, as for sPvP yep those guys are pretty screwed…

and grubs spawned off of your pet?

Terok.7315:

+1

Let’s not make Giganticus Lupicus any harder than he needs to be.

Lol people are still writing this, when did you last do Lupicius?

So to clarify?

Necromancers aren’t viable in dungeons anymore because they removed the ability to fear mobs….. ok that’s cool

If you insist as much, better reroll warrior

I’ll go back to running dungeons, seems no issue there

“Anet broke my class” was my attempt at paraphrasing the consensus attitude in this thread

The reason this apparently broke your ‘boss’ viability is because you are either
a) running a cond spec – guess what you are designed for aoe situations
b) running a ‘juggermancer’ spec – double dipping in defensive skills is overkill
c) running a poorly optimised power build

None of the above, then please enlighten me what you curretly run and why this is such a massie ‘nerf’. If all you bring to boss situations is fear/daze then guess what,

Your doing it wrong