Guild Wars 2

Beldin.5498:

Valanga.5942:

but the fact that there is a game in beta wich is already more “improved” than 1.5 years old GW2.

Who cares ? 1-2 month after release that game is the worst game with no endgame and worst suport that has ever been released .. like every other MMO that was always sooo much better before release.

Actually i can barely remember an MMO with less content and endgame than GW2…

Beldin.5498:

And Wildstar .. who needs WoW in Space ? And also it wouldn’t really make me sad if all the folks that want so much their hardcore raids better go there thand constantly trying GW2 to be more like WoW.

Don’t mean to be rude, but… Who cares? I wasn’t talking about the need or not of a “wow in space” (wich is not, since it would be like calling GW2 “WoW with only DPS specs”), but the fact that there is a game in beta wich is already more “improved” than 1.5 years old GW2.

Rash.6514:

tolunart.2095:

The term is meaningless for an MMO. The game itself is never “finished.”

That’s the correct answer.

What are you guys comparing GW2 with? The 7-year old WoW? The 6(?)-ish-year-old Lineage II? GW2 is improving. It just takes time.

I’m testing an MMO in beta wich is way more bugless and smooth than 1 year and a half old GW2… So i wouldn’t say that the term is “meaningless”

Raine.1394:

And, realistically, can a game less than two years old have an “ancient” history?

That depend on how convienent can be to back up his opinion…
GW2 can easily become “Still new, not even 2 years old!” when it’s about missing features and content, or “Ancient Stuff” in a case like the one above :P

Vayne.8563:

Everyone thinks the way they think is the way most people think. We can’t all be right.

Actually it’s not true, i’ve never said mine is the only possible truth, or that i speak for the majority of the community, but i have evidence that quite a good amount of people isn’t happy of what the game turned out to be.

Vayne.8563:

So what you’re saying is ancient history matters. A good percentage of those 3.5 million people walked away BEFORE Anet made the changes everyone is railing about. So that number becomes very interesting.

The question is is the population NOW growing or shrinking. If it’s growing Anet is doing the right thing. If it’s shrinking then maybe not. They’ve said its’ growing. I see it growing.

Does it have the same people who bought it pre launch? Of course not. Does WoW still have 12.4 million players? Ummm no.

All MMOs tend to lose business over time, until they go free to play which is a whole different ball game. Partly because you can create as many accounts as you want for free.

Nope. The goal of 3.5 mln has been reached after the whole Lost Shores fiasco and Ascendant Grind.
Wich means a lot of people came into the game after that and from there left for never return.
And for “a lot” i don’t mean “a vast majority” or whatever may need you to derail the point… Actually i can’t say (like anyone else) how many of those 3.5 mln are still in game.
It may even be 3.499.999 people and i’m the only one who left.

And for the growing population? You may be right and i don’t doubt you’ve seen more people in the last few months… Or you may be wrong since last time i logged before quitting for good i found my old guild and friends gone, and the server half empty.
I wish i had the same total faith you have in what the devs say, but sadly, after all the sales speech they passed for dev blog i don’t have any left.

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

And what would be this so called “majority of players”?
Because the game sold 3.5 milions of copies, and i hardly believe they are all happily playing the game and praising whatever ANet shove down their throat… In fact, the shape of most of the servers tells us otherwise.
The only difference is that there’s people who comes here and voice their complaints, and people who just goes “meh”, and unistall the game without giving a kitten … Who do you think gives a better feedback on what should be done to retain people?

aspirine.6852:

That or they are working on wildstar :/

Nope.
Luckily, Wildstar armors looks quite cool, have a good variety and doesn’t clip.
No way it’s the same people working on them.

So they basically confirmed what most of the people already knew? How brilliant…

Funkybacon.2635:

I played this game the day it was released.

People where everywhere, events popped up all over the place. I took a break after investing alot of time in it and yesterday i reinstalled and logged in again, with a new character.

I was shocked, on my server Gandara, for both Sylvari and human it seemed i was the only one in the first zone.
There was chat going on and people in the city, but no one in the actual playfields?

Whats going on?
I was about to get my friend to buy this game since it is amazing.
But with no people in the beginner areas (and probably further along the way) the things that made GW2 so awesome (all the events and such) will be few and far between.

Is it just my server?
Where is everybody?

I want to play again and partake in all the cool stuff, but like this?

Halp!

Game is one year and a half old, it’s kind of natural that people goes where “end game” content is… Even if a lot of people will says differently, GW2 is exactly as every other MMO out there.
You may try and check on the most populated servers, since it as been claimed that the game is having a constant flux of new player, most likely you will find them hanging around in the starting zones… But most probably not.

VOLKON.1290:

If GW2 had the trinity combat wouldn’t be nearly as fun as it is now. Leave that to lesser MMOs.

Stacking in a corner and autoattacking a boss… So glad “lesser MMOs” aren’t taking example from GW2’s “fun” combat system…

Vayne.8563:

Only Guild Wars 1 fans think it’s similar to other MMOs. I’ve been in both games. This game is worlds apart from other MMOs.

Wrong.
Never been a Guild Wars 1 fan, played the game for a couple of days when it came out then unistalled and never played it again.
Although i admit all the game’s qualities, i never been a fan myself.
But to me, GW2 doens’t seem any different than a lot of other F2P MMOs out there.

The fact that YOU find it different, doesn’t mean everyone else does.

Vayne.8563:

Well, seems to me on patch does someone must like the content, because I keep getting put into overflows. I mean consistently.

Sometimes I’m on overflows for days and days after a patch hits.

Again, you’re on the most populated server of the entire game, if you didn’t get any overflow in patch day, i’d be worried…
But have you ever tried to guest into the less crowded servers, the ones people open threads about on daily basis, asking for merge because they are empty? I’m sure you’ll not have any overflow there, even on patch days.

Vayne.8563:

You must have pretty low standards, because the story in Guild Wars 1 was cliche too. Whether you liked it or not, if you can’t admit it’s cliche there’s not much else to talk about..

Since you praised the Living Story in more threads than i care to remember (yep, calling it Story, but now i see it’s more convenient to call it World), and how much a good character Scarlet is, and now in this very topic you said that games like TSW, AoC and The Old Republic don’t have a good story… Well, i wouldn’t be sure who’s the one with pretty low standards…

But anyway, it’s your opinion, and it’s as good as his, no less and no more.

Scandi.5693:

Desolation does it everyday starting at noon (cet), need to get there an hour early and as a guest be prepared to block alot of desolation people who feel the need to insult you and your mother for being ‘invaders’ or ‘guest scrubs’.

I may reinstall the game again only to guest there and troll the locals…

Wryscher.1432:

The question i have, since i didn’t sign up for beta of said magical game, is a year after launch will i still be using the same 3 attack skills i had launch day? I hate to think Gw2 with its deep and vast character progression, actually manage to set a trend, with no actual skill progression.

Actually, you won’t.
Without breaking any NDA, since there’s plenty of official videos showing that, you can not only build your character with a decent amount of different skills, but by leveling them, you can change some of their effects, making them totally different from their original form, and even from the same level skill, shaped in different way.

That said, the combat is just bad and clunky, it’s gonna be another of those game full of good idea on paper, but with a pedestrian execution…

Vol.7601:

This is the type of question perfect for Dolyak Express

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dolyak-Express-Jan-10-2014/first#post3477727

Yeah, the devs may even answer that…

thefantasticg.3984:

There is no reason to believe they won’t bring down Zerkers instead of bringing up other types of builds due to past history… So, I repeat, you must be new here.

It’s gonna be total fun when this will happen… At least here on the forums…

Vayne.8563:

I had a beta invite from another big name game and I’ve been trying it out. It’s not bad….it’s pedestrian. They have a whole lot of work to do before it’s half the game that Guild Wars 2 is.

If you’re talking about that big name game everyone is trying out this week end… Well, you’re almost right.
Because it’s totally true that that game’s combat system is even worse than GW2’s, not only that, but it’s totally broken, with random hit spots and damage that comes when the animation is still running… And speaking of animation, well, i probably seen worse only in the single player version of that game…

That said, for being a stress where almost every single person in the planet as been invited, the server (yes, it’s only one) is literally humiliating all GW2’s, and the game engine too is a beast, running supersmooth already with some of the beautiest sceneries ever seen in a MMO.

What about giving you a “big gun” so you can ’splode things and be happy?
Seriously… Buff all the classes? And then what? Giving you an “I win” button?

VOLKON.1290:

I think originally it was working more or less as intended, but people got them so quickly then were complaining about nothing more to shoot for gear-wise. (Not everyone has fully grasped the idea of working towards skins.) Ascended gear appeases to a degree many of the players that still seek gear progression yet does so in a subtle enough way (stat-wise) to not have any real impact on the game or the content. The time sink is fairly extensive, and when you consider alts people will be working on ascended sets for quite some time. By then new skins or ascended sets can be introduced with no actual stat increase or we could see Legendary gear (again with no stat increase, yet with added perks).

There’s one little thing wich is wrong in your argument… You’re assuming the existence of a category of players wich would be a mass of mindless drones looking for a + 1 on stats.
I guarantee you that even the old schooler of the old school MMO players doesn’t care about the “+1”, but looks for progressively challenging content tied with progressively better gear.
So no, ANet didn’t add the Ascendant treadmill (INB4 “there’s no treadmill”, there is, and it’s called infusions) to please the players who wanted vertical progression, because a number of those players already figured out that GW2 lack the basis for a proper vertical progression (wich is new gear = new content designed for said gear), so they already moved to games that does it better.
And even if it was the case, as i already asked in another thread, what once they got full ascendant?
On the other hands, another number of players who didn’t want a new tier of gear got kittened and left or are still here complaining.
The only players who are happy with the move ANet made are those who every time the devs does something that upset the community, runs and check every single word of the Manifesto and every other blog post, interview and what else, looking for a comma, or a word that could be turned into a “See? They planned it all along! They didn’t lie! I’m definitely ok with that!”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

- Ascended rings and backpieces came with Fractals. New content.
- Ascended necklaces came with Laurels and the Daily Achievement revamp. No new content.
- Ascended trinkets came with Guild Missions, from the bounties to challenges. New content.
- Ascended weapons came with the revamped Tequatl fight. Your mileage may vary on whether it counts as “new content”.
- Ascended armor came with Wintersday 2013. No new content, just a repeat of the last phase of Wintersday 2012.

A truckload of small guilds would like to have a word with you about the Guild Missions being “new content”, since for them they may as well don’t even exist…

Azala Yar.7693:

Which is what seems to be what the whole argument is about.

Actually, the whole argument would be more like “Once the people who didn’t left already, will have all their Ascendant gear, provided they don’t die dored first, when they notice that there is nothing else new to do except their bi-weekly achivo grind, what will they do? Ask for more gear grind? Ask for content and get more gear grind? Leave since 2014 will be the year of the actual next generation of MMOs? Keep petting snow rabbits in Frostgorge Sounds while looking at the horizong and scream how much they thank ANet for that?”

It must be Tuesday…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mmm . . . “dumb”, nah I don’t find it “dumb”.

Incredibly misaligned with what the players asked for, even for those wanting newer gear? Yes. A series of confusing choices for how it got released a little at a time with no apparent guidance for how? Yes. Unnecessary additions where it just doesn’t give an advantage great enough to be bothered worrying about? Yes. Overhyped on all sides for both how amazing it was and how much it breaks the game?

Very very much so.

Dumb isn’t quite right. I’d say more “effort better spent elsewhere or just shelved for another year until it matured and was complete, AND had compelling reasons to go for it other than ‘stats, yo’”.

It’s not about the release timeframe… And i will never tire to repeat that… It’s the fact that every single piece of Ascendand gear (witth the exception of the rings), came with literally zero new content to play in order to acquire them!
I mean, ok, GW2 is the groundbreaking, revolutionary, next generation MMO and blablabla (insert random “we are so awesome” blogpost quote), but really, every single MMO in the past, added new content along with new gear, so people would have something new to play while acquiring said gear… Wouldn’t have been better to just copy the old games, instead of going 100 original?

cesmode.4257:

Tyria being destroyed, or burned or something.

If i had a copper for every time i read/hear/seen this, i could buy the entire TP…

Ashabhi.1365:

If ascended gear had been in the game since day one, nobody would have given it a second thought. People wanted “more” and asked for “it.” They got “it,” and now they’re complaining about the means to get “it.”

There is nothing in this game that is locked if you don’t have ascended gear. Yes, there are things that are immensely easier with it, but if I want to run fractals as high as I possibly can, there is nothing that pops up on my screen that says “Sorry, you don’t have the right gear so you can’t be in here.”

It’s the players that are requiring it. How many LFG have you seen that put restrictions on the players? How many times have you seen “LFG, LVL80 Asc.only?”

Again, it’s not the game that requires it. It’s the players.

People asked for content, asked for things to do in order to get that fun the devs said it would’ve be the engine of their game.
People got Ascendant grind. Wich is not required, so it’s basically a big waste of time that could’ve been used to create actual content and solve the problem.

Am i the only one who find this dumb?

Behellagh.1468:

It’s not on the main page. Yes it’s under Media/Videos. The very first video since it’s 3 years old.

Ok, can you find me all the other explanation they should have posted regarding the Manifesto in the website, please?

Vayne.8563:

The manifesto is a 3 year old 5 minute video. If people watched that and ignored everything said after that it’s not Anet’s fault.

I lost the count of how many time this has been asked, but anyway… Why a “3 years old 5 minutes video”, is still on the main page of GW2’s website, and “everything said after” don’t?

lordkrall.7241:

But if people only listen to a single video and then ignore all those articles and stuff clarifying things during the YEARS between Manifesto release and game release it IS the players fault.

As i said… Manifesto is on the mainpage, articles and stuff are not even in the database… Because they got conveniently lost when they changed from beta to release…

Vayne.8563:

Most of the statesments the devs made about the game prior to release didn’t mention vertical progression or gear grind at all. Only an tiny tiny percentage of dev quotes talked about that, and almost always only in response to a question asked by someone.

So all the people who complain about this, and left the game must have some kind of problem at reading/listening what the devs said… And all the quotes they put as signature, taken from devs’ interviews and blog post, must’ve been some kind of collective allucination, right?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Anyway, for purposes of this discussion, herd play does not for the most part require any skill — no matter if you’re talking about player skill or skills on the hot bar.

And that’s quite true… Sadly, herd play represent the vast majority of GW2 “endgame”.

laokoko.7403:

no they said about 400k at headstart. Most likely that is the peak. Because they already presold million of copies.

If you want 400k steady concurrent user, you’ll need 4 million players. I dont’ even think GW2 sold that many copies. And I dont’ think GW2 have 100% retention rate after 1 year.

They are stuck at 3.5 Mil, i remember they went full “oh, we are going to release noews on sales very soon, when we’ll get the next milestone” wich was supposed to be the 4 Mil. copies sold… But that was 4 or 5 months ago…

lordkrall.7241:

Valanga.5942:

Final Fantasy XIV, the reproposition of one of the biggest fail in MMO’s recent history, managed to get almost 400K concurrent users online not even a week after release…
I still don’t understand why ANet was boasting so much…

The bolded part is very important here.

And since it is apparently common knowledge wouldn’t that mean they are boasting as well?

Nope because they released the data giving it a precise time frame, not a “we had 460k players online together sometime”, in a dumb “one year after” PR poster half full of maked up stuff.
Also, it wasn’t boasting but actually apologizing because when that event happened, FF XIV’s servers went kaboom.

Spawne.3128:

460k concurrent users is nothing by comparison to other MMO’s. Warcraft has over 10 million active subscriptions at its last expansion and over 1.5 million concurrent users. Even star wars knights of the old republic managed 350k concurrent users and thats a non mainstream MMO geared towards star wars geeks.

Final Fantasy XIV, the reproposition of one of the biggest fail in MMO’s recent history, managed to get almost 400K concurrent users online not even a week after release…
I still don’t understand why ANet was boasting so much…

lordkrall.7241:

Actually no they don’t.
The status can change several times per day which would prove that it is not based on “number of accounts created on date (funny that you comment on the other guys spelling with this in your post btw..) server”.

Yeah, you’re right, i made a mistake translating the word, apologies.
Anyway, either the servers shows the accounts created, or they go random, because i’ve seen half empty servers labeled high.

IVIUIEI.9631:

And u know all this because u work for them….? Yea that’s what i thought u don’t. Maybe that’s what people like u would do when your game fails.

He’s able to write YOU, you aren’t… That’s enough to make him way more credible than you.

Anyway, what the server say means nothing because they count the number of accounts created on that server, not the actual population in it.
That dude who said that there is 100K – 150K active players (give or take), based on what can be seen in game, is probably right.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Skill in GW2 combat is primarily timing. You time when to dodge, when to use defensive buffs, when to heal, when to use offensive buffs, when to reposition, etc. The rest is knowing which attacks or utility skills to use when. Timing the invulnerability frames can require both a good computer, good connection and good twitch reflexes. Since you can increase your twitch reflexes to some degree (i.e., you can get better at it with practice), this does constitute the development of skill.

Skilled play is, unfortunately, not required in some of the activities the game provides. Thus, the negative comments about herd play and overuse of #1 skill. It’s also unfortunate that most of the reward carrots provided in the game steer players towards herd play. This is a side effect of wanting large numbers of players to do content in the open world simultaneously.

What’s the point in even trying to dodge in the middle of a zerg, assuming you can even see the telegraph with all the sparkly effect that invades the screen, reducing the fps to like one frame per minute?

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know, I have different memories of Guild Wars 1. Most of the game, more than 90% of it, could be beaten by looking up a build in PvX Wiki, speccing out your heroes and pretty much doing nothing yourself. There were exceptions but they were few and far between.

There were many times in hard mode I’d just walk away from the computer to do stuff and my heroes would take out patrols while I was afk.

Build Wars was a skill game if you made your own builds. But if you looked up builds (or just paid for runs) you could beat just about everything.

Still a more skill game than Gold Wars 2.

Bagel.4598:

There was a MASS of crying about teq on the first day of release. By the second day when everyone found out, lets all just zerg and stand beside him, throw some people on the turrets and we’ll complete everytime.

Ah… That revolutionary and groundbreaking new mechanic called “stand beside the boss and autoattack”… I’m sure every new MMO gonna copy that, not.

The only skills required to master this game are opposable thumbs…

Bagel.4598:

What he is saying is that 90% of this game’s content and it’s mechanics could be done by a monkey in a straight jacket.

No wait… He’s right, opposable thumbs are not actually needed.

Shakkara.2641:

It’s silly that an MMO from 1997 with a dozen developers originally could come up with something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbU6c6d1GC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FztPLlnOnhk

and we still don’t have custom housing.

How bad I want a successor to Ultima Online.

Housing inside the game world
Drop items on the ground and interact with them everywhere you want (no other MMO has that as far as I know)
No instances
No levels
Sandbox
Good crafting system
No soulbound, trade everything
No classses, use skillpoints to build a character from 50+ skills any way you like
Unique, one of a kind items

Lord British is going to deliver Shroud of the Avatar just for us.

Doggie.3184:

and their current/recent addition of ‘guild halls’ is awful; ran entirely on absolutely massive amounts of gold that majority of people can’t obtain.

That’s totally true, but they already lowering the prices and they will keep doing it until they find the right balance…
But honestly, since it’s Gold Wars 2 we’re talking about, do you really think that some kind of housing system here will be any different than FF XIV’s?

Teege.4623:

We have them. It’s called your home instance.

Not sure if troll or…

Vayne.8563:

So how long after Rift launched was it before Trion added player housing? It’ll get here when it gets here.

Here’s one thing i don’t get it… Rift added housing with the Storm Legion expansion, 1 year and 8 months after release, give or take.
So what? How long after Ultima Online launched was it before Origin added player housing? Day 1
How long it was for Final Fantasy XIV? 3 or 4 months.
How long it was for Star Wars Galaxies? Day 1.
How long it will be for Wildstar and EQ Next? Day 1 for both.

So what? Why the need to compare with a game released 4 years ago? Having so many examples, a modern game shouldn’t have more and better features than the older ones? Or it’s just easier to say “they hadn’t, so why should we?”

Hate: The “Korean grinding MMO” turn the game took when ANet went full panic.
Like: Some of the sceneries are among the best in the whole MMO history

Illusions.3108:

If the Devs pulled a SWG and revamped the combat system completely to more accurately mirror GW1, would you support it or be very disgruntled??

Discuss

I don’t want to be “that guy” but… Guess what? The devs already pulled a SWG, 2 months after release, when they completely turned inside out the whole game philosophy.

VOLKON.1290:

Anyone foolish enough to quit over a treadmill that doesn’t exist… well, I haven’t missed any of ’em.

Gear treadmill’s already in motion, but it’s via more powerful infusion instead of new gears… For now.

Anyway, to the OP.
You grinded way more than 600 gold worth of stuff to get one of the ugliest weapons in GW2?
You’re my new hero.

You already grinded your Eternity out, your job is done.
Eventually they’ll fix the weapon, between a new grind and another.

Sweetbread.2679:

Why does there even need to be any discussion of Anet’s integrity or commitment to their said design philosophies after the whole manifesto fiasco? They can declare, promise, commit, plan, intend, proclaim anything and at best you have absolutely no idea if they actually mean any of it or not. I don’t feel that way when WoW or LoL devs discuss things, they actually have some proven reliability or merit behind what they say. With GW2 it all just feels like PR doublespeak or hype with little follow through. I’ve never seen a company kitten all over a good reputation as quickly as Anet has done this last year with how they’ve handled GW2.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Ethics.4519:

Valanga.5942:

Yeah, you’d be right if the blogpost wasn’t their usual “we can’t hear you over the sound of our awesomeness”, full of “awesome” here, “epic” there and crap like that…
And of course if they didn’t broke promises, taken 180° turns on their original plans and so on…

Thank you. My biggest issue is that this is just another tick against them in there string of 180 degree turns, stealth nerfs, bad PR, etc.

I don’t really care that much that some of these weren’t in 2013 (well, the precursor one I did really want to happen) it’s just that it’s the same old story.

Anet promotes something flashy and cool. The majority buy into it. Anet fails and it’s not as good or doesn’t happen. Some people are upset, and other people argue that humans make mistakes.

Point is, a certain amount of players (not gonna say “all” “most” “a lot”, because, you know, inb4 “you’re not speaking for the community! we love it!”), wants actual content, bugs solved, classes balanced, and ways to acquire Legendary Weapons that are not tied either to lucking the hell out of a chest or the Mystic Toilet, or grinding your guts out of your mouth to get enough money and pay some dude who did it before you.
What we get was Ascendant grinding… Well done Anet.

Vayne.8563:

Imagine that! A programming job that took longer than expected. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that happen before. I mean every building project comes in on time and under budget.

They made a list of stuff they intended to get out before the end of the year, some of the stuff got pushed back.

The funny bit is, if they rushed the stuff out,. then people would scream it was rushed. If they take their time and move it back people say they’ve been lied too.

It is entirely possible to miss a deadline without lying. I once told a publisher I could have a draft of a story back to them in a week…it took three. Did I lie? Did I break a promise? No.

I underestimated the time it would take, partly due to the project itself and partly due to other influences that delayed my ability to work on it.

The stuff that’s been moved back has missed a deadline, nothing more. It’s business as usual, as most programmers would tell you.

Yeah, you’d be right if the blogpost wasn’t their usual “we can’t hear you over the sound of our awesomeness”, full of “awesome” here, “epic” there and crap like that…
And of course if they didn’t broke promises, taken 180° turns on their original plans and so on…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

2014 is going to be an amazing year for GW2 and the community!

Chris

Hell yeah! Looking forward for another “expansion worth of content”… Wait, no.

cesmode.4257:

Eh, I would say they definately over shot for their goals this year. Was it a legitimate case of being over-zealous? Or another tactic to generate some hype…much like pre launch?

Isn’t that what they do best? Overhyping on blog post and then letting down once the stuff goes live (when it does…)