oh it says full , full of pve players not any wvw players though .
this is what happens when you pay for guilds to come over .
when playing a thief , do you get the sense that there is not a whole lot to gripe about but think maybe this could be nerfed a bit for the class ?
id wonder what would happen if necros were given the ability on a weapon to stealth . just for a short while , you know , to disengage like thieves , mesmers , rangers can do . and i mean by not slotting rune of infiltration . im talking a legit stealth that shuts it down .
sustain , condi damage , fleeing , cc , condi removal , health regen , pets ,
practically every skill a necro has at their disposal is out done by some other class .
the on going trend that people keep telling themselves is that necro is an attrition based class , yet you can have that in the guardian .
so . here are some solutions to fix that ..
abilities that do self harm need to be buffed and the self harm removed .
the casting times for skills need to be quicker .
pet health need to be increased .
fear needs to be over all changed . instead of being a skill that does damage , remove the damage and increase the time for the fear itself as a proper cc .
over time for snares and roots need to be increased .
life siphon needs to be increased
condition transfer needs to be increased from 3 to 6
and death shroud skills need a speed increase in cast , projectile , and recast of duration needs to be lowered .
whats the matter ? you don’t want to play the game on hard mode anymore ?
such a racist topic , I LOVE IT !
i guess that shia labeouf speech really made the devs motivated to make sure classes with leaps teleports and over all mobility can ding door dash like its a marathon ..
mean while classes that need to keep classes from leaving the battle will have no way of doing this anymore . question . what was the point of cc ?
well , it’s been 3 years since the official release of the scythe skin from the halloween patch . and in that time anet has not made it possible for players to get the thing like it was at that time . maybe just maybe anet might bring it back again this year , cross your fingers !
The point, I think, is to give opponents more time to dodge or counter.
it’s not like other classes have a billion counters already . with the blocking and evading because they have access to vigor or the mere fact 3 of the classes in the game practically are not even effected , warriors eles and thieves , this is just silly .
? is arena net really that scared that if they made the gs swings as fast as the gs for warriors rangers guardians that necros would some how become op over night ? i just dont get it . the thing swings as slow as a 2h hammer .
real answer is , people that play other classes would cry to anet to nerf necro even more . and instead of testing the numbers themselves they would just go by what all the players said instead . it would not be pretty as to what would become of the necro
and i would like it so that necromancers were wanted in groups instead of being exiled like they currently are when it comes to dungeons . oh my mistake this game is build wars
what would of been nice for one of the shouts is that it strips away boons off a target and transfers the boon/s to you in that aoe 600 range shout .
this is just hear say but from what i have gathered is that not only necros are getting changes in this department but are also getting some group support with an aura which also allows group members to life siphon .
this is where the straw that broke the camels back . in some fashion it can be either op or weak . how are they going to find that good juicy middle that not only warrants the need for necros in dungeons / fractals but not puts us exiled like we currently are ?
so the reaper is the imagination of the devs to be thought of as a movie horror monster
okay.
which one were they seriously thinking would be practical for an mmo such as guild wars 2 ?
cause when i think movie horror monsters , i think of the ones that kills just about everybody and can not be killed off so easy .
i over heard pyramid head from silent hill and jason vorhees from friday the 13th .
if that is the case then i guess that in order for necros to be effective they need to either wait for enemy players to enter a foggy town that has sirens go off
or
be near a camp at all times to stalk their prey when their prey is all alone so that no one can come help and aid them .
whats your thoughts on this ?
i will say that the new shroud is an upgrade to the old death shroud in ways that not only help us as necros sustain pressure but it also lends some very much needed support in areas that are lacking in the current death shroud , being that players can help themselves close gap better that not only helps a little in mobility but also transfers 1 boon per target into a condition , a reliable stability with the use of an point blank area of effect fear which can hit multi targets and i can only assume you don’t have to be in line of sight . and last but not least gave us some melee attacks for when things do get hairy as opposed to where we are at the given moment . my only issue with the new and old ds is the range and cast times . that being said arena net could make and effort to see this issue and correct it before release !
here is a compiled list of things as to what can counter the necromancers cast times
blinds , evades , stuns , blocks , interrupts , knockdowns , fear , line of sight , knockbacks
now that we have got that out of the way what are practical ways for the necromancer to be able to avoid these very things in order to still be able to create an upper hand for our selves all the mean while not sacrifice our saving grace abilities for sustain ?
i can assume that fear is something we need to put heavy focus along side with chills to not only disrupt enemy cast times but also help the necro gain measure .
stability and break frees are now the name of the game in order to be able to pull off a series of attacks .
playing aggressive will be the necros true aim more than that of a warrior or a thief .
mobility mobility mobility , which in return is what this class needs to put huge amount of focus on . so not only buff yourself for speed but snare anything in your path as much as possible but quickly as possible too .
stay in shroud as much as possible all the mean while life siphon as much as you can to help you heal .
this is the way necros will all be forced to play their class . i see no other possible way .
as the necro community shouts over the past 3 years for arena net to do anything to the class to help it in regards to wvw / spvp / dungeons , arena net gets the idea of giving necros shouts that take about 3 seconds to activate .
i bet the devs had a great laugh at the expense of the necros here on this one .
if this is not a prime example of how necros are viewed across the game than i don’t know what is.
i do wonder though . why did they even make the necro class in the first place ?
Shout, shout, let it all out, these are the things I can do without
Come on, I’m talking to you, come on ,
sorry . i was listening to tears for fears .
thank you thank you , i will be here all week !
one that works
What do you mean with ‘all is crap’ Reaper just saved 3/4 of all necros kitten
all is crap when you consider the lack of group support and bs about mitigation when everyone knows that the first thing people do when facing conditions is that they get rid of them or transfer them into boons . so the run around in terms of conditions is a null and void aspect of the game which then puts a major focus on power necro based combat which in return is not really saying much as to how this will be the case for attrition . life siphoning is practical , it solves some of the core issues but not to the extent which is needed . if arena net does away with condition removal then id say we are where we need to be . but everyone knows that will never ever happen in a million years .
they did mention that now while in death shroud that necros will be able to siphon to heal themselves . this was the one thing that made me go like darth sidious to darth vader , " GOOOD GOOOD " !
i think this song pretty much sums up my impression of the direction of necros from arena nets perspective
I was playing around with my mesmer and then later my thief yesterday and it got me to thinking . i wonder how stealth could be put in for necromancers and how much that do for the class . so i sat down i thought of key situations that would cause a necro to benefit from using stealth but also thought of how it would make them to powerful .
so i thought maybe a 6 second stealth on a 60 second timer would help in some regard cause then it would give it enough time to heal it self or create enough distance so that it could help in some manner of re setting a fight . im not sure as to much much stealth a necro would need for survive ability but i do notice how much it helps out my mesmer
i also notice engies use stealth also and it helps them a lot . so what do you guys think ?
(edited by lorndarken.3702)
what is this blasphemy?
i know right ? lol
when you are thinking of what the necromancer is designed for in terms of sustain and how effective it can be without losing pressure on a target you can go with a few builds but in the long term measure of a fight what are you looking to do ? draw out the fight as long as possible or to end it quickly . other classes in gw2 i believe have a better rotation of skills that not only helps them in the manner of keeping pressure on a target but being able to roll through their skills without having to be cc’ed or slowed down all the mean while having better options in re-setting a fight that would help them with survive ability .
conditions can be that moniker if conditions were not cleansed , or transferred or start out so weak to begin with or be completely nullified in some cases.
power specs might have an option of laying down heavy amounts damage if it were not cc’ed , frozen or out of range to attack .
so how does one go about fixing these issues that persist on the necromancer when literally every class in the game has built in mechanics that either strongly counter what a necromancer is trying to do or can out perform in every category ?
i believe that if necromancers were able to not only sustain themselves with minions and that minion ai pathing was not an issue and that the health siphoning was stronger for sustained pressure that could help the necromancer out . but then again you also have the fear builds that are meant to help a necro in regards to dishing out heavy cc themselves if there were no cleanses or break frees that other classes could use in counter to a necro that would be an option .
what is your take on how to better a necros sustain of pressure ?
(edited by lorndarken.3702)
with the lack of the classes skills being practical for use because either they don’t create enough sustain or arena net is so frighten by the idea of what a true necromancer is all about it makes one wonder why even bother playing it in the first place ?
we all know the problems and the ideas of how to fix it has been talked about for months . the question is
do anyone from arena net even play the necromancer or are they just going to do like so many other mmos before them in the past by just ignoring a class that needs help as their solution ?
with the title for the up and coming name for the patch for the 13th , that is how i feel about this game . a point of no return .
i have been on vacation from this game for a while and the reason for that being is i needed to be happy and not fixate on something that would normally make me upset and depressed .
i come back to these forums only to find that nothing has changed since then so i guess i will wait till things become better for necros . games that i have played in the mean time while i boycott gw2 are , dragon age inquisition , pokemon omega ruby , super mario bros 3 and yugioh zexal . it feels so good to play other games that don’t disappoint you like guild wars 2 does .
it is such a shame that for a game that had so much potential to be the mmo that would keep me playing for years on end i find myself thanking my lucky stars that this mmo has no monthly fee to it or else i would of never checked back from time to time waiting for anet to do what is best . any ways i think i over stayed my return and shall depart again . i don’t have time wasting a way pulling my hair over a game that does not entertain me or give me a reason to play .
warriors would be football
thieves would be basketball
rangers would be baseball
eles would be soccer
engineers would be boxing
guardians would be lacross
mesmers would be tennis
necros would be hockey
im not really sure what the point of this thread was but im bored and thought hey why not do something fun and comical
you can get a general idea of how many people who would be against necros healing while in death shroud when the majority of those complaints are coming from people who never picked up the class to play to see for themselves . isn’t ignorance wonderful folks ?
some necromancers are racking disaprine !
Just wait, necros will have their day and soon we will have fotm necros running all over and we will all be hipsters being like oh I was playing necro before it was cool and whatnot.
ugh ^ don’t ever and i mean ever refer to players who play necro as hipsters . it’s bad enough that the class is a joke to begin with , people who play the class don’t need to be called tree hugers also ! and being a hipster is the lamest thing to be in the history of history !
bump bump bump bump
back in my day necros ruled every aspect of gaming , from magic the gathering , to everquest , to dark age of camelot as a bonedancer to diablo 2 !!! you wanna know what happen ?
all of those players back then who got destroyed by necromancers in those days , went on to become video game developers , and they created games like guild wars 1/2 , world of warcraft , diablo 3 , magic the gathering , ect ect ect .. and they either took the class out of those games or , made it such a joke that no one playing the class could ever get easy wins with it ever again ., it was called revenge of the nerds !
i have listed explanations detailing how necro damage is done . apparently i have not got the same in return from those that have a different opinion . since day 1 in all mmo’s including this one the over all damage at which is the highest when out damaging your opponent it has and still will be through condition than that of power . i didn’t design it this way since it has been and continues to be that way regardless of how much people want to disagree with it and have zero proof in argument against what is fact .
lets say you are attacking something for 1 minuet as a power necromancer vs a condi necromancer , what you will see is that old concept of the rabbit vs the turtle example be played out every time . the power necro is the rabbit where as the turtle is the condi necro , the rabbit would start out the race ahead at first in about 10 or 15 seconds in but that turtle would beat the rabbit because it not only catches up to the rabbit but beats it and leaves it in it’s dust when the minuet is over . the stacks of damage that condi does is a lot more than that of a power necro in the long run . until anet changes something in regards to this , you can’t really argue against it when it has been proven fact since day 1 . that is why i wanted to make a topic talking about the pro’s and cons of each spec . on how each is regarded in terms of over all combat damage and effectiveness . it’s not some favoritism of pick your favorite style of damage . each style be it power or condi have things we don’t like about it and simply ignoring those things kinda takes away from the topic .
I didn’t mean to take anything out of context, I was genuinely confused by your statements, and I still am to be honest:
Are we talking about PvE or PvP/WvW here?
The only place where you can even begin to talk about high sustained condition damage is PvE, because like you said: players cleanse.
Then you also mention transfers, boon conversion, condi immunities, …. which made me believe all the more you were talking about a PvP environment.So let me try to get this right here:
1. You say the damage potential of condition builds with up to 5k/tick is higher than that of power builds, in fact it’s the best we can do, period.
2. You point out as a negative of power builds that they have a build up time and initially only start out with 2-3k, but then they get higher. And this somehow doesn’t happen in zerg fights…?So let me ask you this, if power builds need a build up time then how on earth would you describe condition damage?
You know, there’s a reason why the PvE meta for all classes is full zerker power builds: higher initial damage, higher bursts, higher sustained damage.if you read the entire thing instead of doing what you did here ^ you would see what I really said which is
when you are able to lay heavy amounts of condi damage it is the strongest sustained damage a necro can go with in the entire game because it can build up to almost 5000 damage a tick in such a short amount of time
Yeah, thanks for explaining what you meant by copy pasting the exact same sentence you wrote in your first post. -_-
What do you mean by “short amount of time”? And how is any of it better than direct damage from power builds? Are you implying power builds have a lower dps than 5k?Also, the might stacking argument could be acceptable if we were talking about a different class, but this is the necro! We don’t stack might like other classes, we get 10 stacks from Blood is Power and that’s pretty much it, unless you want to spend an even longer time Life Blasting.
And last but not least:
life force building is a pointless argument when most power or condi builds do not put heavy focus on death shroud in the first place unless they want to be based around a ds power build <—— which by the way is a horrible build
Again, I might agree if you’re talking about PvE.
But if this is supposed to be an argument with regards to PvP then you’re not only completely wrong, but I also have to tell you this: learn to play! There is not a single PvP build that doesn’t make heavy use of Death Shroud.
you are so confused . pvp limits the over all damage a necro can do out right , the same can be said also for pve . if you want to max damage output you have to go to wvw . the stacks from weapon , killing guards , food and oil and from giving yourself might via yourself or other players such as guardians .
since condi is sustained damage that scales when there is stacks that happen , as a condi necro you do a lot more damage than a power necro since power necros damage is at a fixed rate unless you are going for a pointless life blast ds power build . and by that factor might stacking in zergs can add more damage than that of a power build could regardless because the burst damage of a power necro is great for a very short time but for long drawn out fights the damage can not be maintained at the same rate or greater than that of a condi necro because condi offers better sustained damage over time than that as a power necro because of the duration of the damage being over time is set that way , seriously is this your first time playing a necro let alone an mmo ? . as for power builds in general go among other classes , thief would beat out a power necro in pure burst damage every time . so why play power necro when thief does more initial burst damage when necros were designed with conditions in mind ?
I’m gotten my condi’s to tick for a total. ((Counting poison and torment)) at around 3.5 to 4k a tick. 5k seems a tad unrealistic.
no , you can get there , if you have stack of might going on . which power is blood chained in return with putrid mark and after mark of blood and then switch to scepter and off hand dagger you can get higher in dots of course you need to also use poison and malice and fear of course the ticks can get to that 5 k or more depending how much migth you got going on . but you also need to be running the right runes and sigils to pull it off .
(edited by lorndarken.3702)
condi damage … strongest sustained damage… in the entire game… 5000 damage a tick
Whaaat?
power
pro: it is great for burst initial damage . given 2k , 3k , or possible higher damage for a short period of time
First of all, power builds have better sustained damage than condi builds. No contest there.
Secondly, what kind of “burst” is 2k or 3k damage? Are you talking about a lvl 1-15 PvE map? xDpower
negative : the build up is tough unless in zerg based fightsBuild up for direct damage? And how would it be better in zergs?
…sustain for damage is not as good as condi spec .
One might argue the opposite considering that condi builds usually have worse life force regeneration.
i see what you did there to take what i said out of context . in the end it just makes you look silly in doing so .
as for your questions the build up for power is better suited because of other players constantly stacking might that you could have a good 25 stacks of might in on going fights to do that high burst damage .
as for the 2k 3 k that is the initial first or 2nd attack , the over all attack during a fight is a lot higher than that .
life force building is a pointless argument when most power or condi builds do not put heavy focus on death shroud in the first place unless they want to be based around a ds power build <—— which by the way is a horrible build . and by the time a player in a fight has gone through their skills in ds they are not going to just spam skill 1 when their weapon skills and utility skills help them a lot more than when they can rebuild life force as their skills in ds are all on cool down .
but lets get to the crux of your miss placed quote ,
condi damage … strongest sustained damage… in the entire game… 5000 damage a tick
Whaaat?
if you read the entire thing instead of doing what you did here ^ you would see what I really said which is
when you are able to lay heavy amounts of condi damage it is the strongest sustained damage a necro can go with in the entire game because it can build up to almost 5000 damage a tick in such a short amount of time ,
(edited by lorndarken.3702)
here is a list of the pros and cons from both specs
first is condis
pro : when you are able to lay heavy amounts of condi damage it is the strongest sustained damage a necro can go with in the entire game because it can build up to almost 5000 damage a tick in such a short amount of time ,
negative : condition cleanses , condi transfers to other players or turned into boons can prevent condi build to be effective , or certain traits that prevent conditions from doing anything at all like bezerker stance , diamond skin just to name a few .
power
pro: it is great for burst initial damage . given 2k , 3k , or possible higher damage for a short period of time that could destroy soft targets like minions , turrets , clones , in a matter or seconds .
negative : the build up is tough unless in zerg based fights and and sustain for damage is not as good as condi spec .
what is your take positive and negative about both specs ?
It might be they have next to zero cleanses,or maybe they do cleanse it but you re apply them too fast. Also,if they have only condi removal traits that work like every 10 second you won’t generally notice it and especially not when you’re on a condi build lol
it’s pretty easy to stay focused when you are only fighting 1 person . i take notice of every little detail they are doing , they try to use heal i fear , they try to go for a stun i dodge roll , they try to root or pull me i still dodge , they try to get behind me and just turn and face them and stay close in distance to make sure my attacks are hitting instead of missing . and yet they don’t cleanse those conditions im throwing at them . even before i could ever put malice on them they are already downed . so the only thing left to do is spike them .
when going into 1 vs 1 fights , i noticed that people don’t remove their conditions at all and before they can they get downed so fast because of it .. now keep in mind i mostly roam out in wvw run a condi necro build , focused mostly on dire but also some rabid for jewlery and weapons but the armor is all dire . and it works for me perfectly . but i notice more often than not people are just not clearing their conditions .
i play in tier 1 and with blackgate . so tc or jq should not be ignoring the damage im hitting them with
so here is how it typically goes , lets say im fighting a warrior and that warrior buffs up like crazy , so i do corrupt boon , then blood is power then putrid mark then chill then mark of blood then fear, i switch to scepter i hit them with skill 2 and off hand dagger skill 5 . and bam they are downed ., they get hit with so much cc and dot damage im sitting here wondering why they did not try to at least do something about all of this . i know im fighting bad players , really bad players , is their a reason why there seems to be a change in the meta cause in pvp it is not that way at all
it still needs to be a little faster and maybe increase in life force draw . other than that it is a tiny bit better than it was . now if only they bring back putrid mark to what it use to be . and maybe 1 second increase on fear and then we would be talking !
I wouldn’t even say PvE players are their main focus. Think about it, at this point in GW1’s life we already had Factions, Nightfall, and EotN. That is new professions, skills, dungeons, friggin continents to explore. What have we gotten so far in this game? A couple of new maps and a bunch of temporary grindfests.
I think the real target audience are casuals players that get hooked on garbage like farmville and candy crush.
the majority of casuals are pve players
Well no pve players are both much like pvp. In fact most of the major pvp guild went to games where you have high progression pve that makes you win pvp fights. To the point of needing to play farmville well to be the best pvp lol.
I think ppl like to use the world casuals as nothing more then a bad phrases and hardcore as a good phrase they lost all meaning beyond that. Ppl say things the way they think that other ppl wants them to hear not what they truly think.
the majority of casual players that will play every so often but still stick around tend to do mostly pve related stuff . that is why you see so much focus put in the game towards them . you wont see much of it towards people who like the aspects of the game in a environment that forces players to stay together to take on enemy player till things run it’s course .. if you told players that starting next month that wvw was going to get a new look on the borderlands and that they could further increase the scale of the towers and keeps with new stuff to entice players , that what they did as a player in wvw that they would get legit realm ranks that further increased their class based abilities like pets being stronger and taller and faster and attacked harder or they could run certain buffs longer or their cc would last longer but they can only get that through rank points from wvw , so they could get class based skills with a new tool bar . something that would make the player feel like their progression as a player could continue and not stop at level 80 . people would be enticed to play . casuals might find it fun but the hardcore would populate the heck out of the game .
(edited by lorndarken.3702)
blah blah blah bg killed it blah blah blah blah it’s bg’s fault , blah blah blah blah that is pretty much what i got from this thread .
okay lets do a reality check because it is very much needed .
wvw as a whole has died which you can read my thread here —-→ https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/we-are-not-the-target-audience/first#post4536699
but to blame everything on blackgate is very short sided and weak but i can only assume that this is coming from someone from jqq .
jq in the tourny season prior to this last one we just came off from . organized with tc to double team against blackgate the entire season . because of that many tc guilds and some jq players felt that this was wrong to do because it was directly cheating the system . so after that season many tc guilds and some jq players left both servers .
when the next season came jq wanted to do the same double team again with tc against blackgate , tc refused to go a long with jq’s plans so blackgate won the tourney , tc put in the effort to fight blackgate while jq sat around doing nothing for themselves . after the season jq has barely showed up while tc has taken over and blackgate stopped showing up because bg are like mercenaries . bg only shows up when it matters . so after winning the last tourney lots of guilds and players decided to not play because it is pointless when you get nothing for winning each week .
that is what has happened in tier 1
I wouldn’t even say PvE players are their main focus. Think about it, at this point in GW1’s life we already had Factions, Nightfall, and EotN. That is new professions, skills, dungeons, friggin continents to explore. What have we gotten so far in this game? A couple of new maps and a bunch of temporary grindfests.
I think the real target audience are casuals players that get hooked on garbage like farmville and candy crush.
the majority of casuals are pve players
which did you prefer ? going into a place where lots of people zerging one place to the next to basic karma train ?
or
going into a place that has opened up to you for your side in a dark dungeon under ground hunting enemy players or have to fight for your life with no more help till your side won back control of the map with the danger ever going ?
when you look at the pile of content that arena net puts the majority of their focus on . it becomes very clear to everybody that wvw was just a after thought in the meeting room when going forward with this game . pve would be their main focus and that everything else would get back seat treatment . now i understand why they chose to go this route because most mmos cater to a demographic that does pve and arena net thought that in their minds that they needed to add as much pve content as possible so that people who prefer that kind of gameplay they would find themselves with a lot to do . kudos to arena net for thinking about the pve player. but what about the pvp players ? they got new maps, new ways to get armor skins for their characters and ranks to show case to all of their friends.
but what about the wvw player ? in my opinion the biggest reason why people bought guild wars 2 was because of the idea of server vs server vs server matchs , but the thought of that what would come from playing in these matches was incentive to get people to care . instead what people got in return was a system that is monotonous . the same old servers staying in their tier brackets playing against the same players every week . rewarding players with the same old trash that makes little to no difference excitement . so they thought maybe give out crap tokens to buy crap with after seasons might be a good enough reason to care. most people might find some enjoyment in doing that but i think one of the biggest reasons people get bored of even that was because the player themselves thought their effort for going the extra mile in putting in time was not rewarding at all . wvw has died .