Guild Wars 2

As if most builds including direct damage are hard to play in the first place…

Regarding condition mesmers, the only skills to keep an eye out for and avoid (block, evade, whatever…) are Shatters, iCounter, Confusing Images and possibly the pDuelist burst (include magic bullet with that as well).

Given you can cleave illusions with no care in the world now, and Shatters are not difficult to avoid with a tiny bit of thought, it’s not difficult to avoid their damage the same as power or hybrid builds. Ok if you get hit by a few stacks of torment/confusion it’s easy to shrug off (I personally tend to ignore less than 3 stacks of torment and confusion). And even with confusion’s pitiful DoT it can be countered by kiting and taking care with skill use.

If I’m able to hold my own and succeed as a power build using only mantra of resolve to cleanse vs a condi mesmer, and only consider myself to be an average player, then anyone should be able to do it providing they take time to learn key mesmer condition application skills and gameplay habits (many follow predictable skill usage).

The only thing that makes condition mesmers “(too) powerful” is if they take PU, for obvious reasons. Without PU, mesmer condition builds are average and can be easily neutered. I believe if PU (the TRAIT) either nerfed or condition builds have to make a sacrifice to use it, then there is no problem at all.

Dondagora.9645:

Barely a nerf and people QQ’ing like this already?

It really screws with the flow if you like to swap mid dodge because now the dodge animation will continue through the swap and prevent use of other skills.

I don’t care about the stun break – it makes sense to remove it. But the side effect of making dodge/swapping clunky bothers me quite a lot.

I am very much in favour of deleting sword 3 entirely and replacing it with something like Spear 2 (but teleport instead of travelling time). Fed up with the constant band aid changes to it.

1/2 second cast time (giving enemies a chance to react to the blink)
Spawn a clone at your position and then blink to your target, crippling them. Can teleport up or down terrain.
600 range
5 second option to swap position with your spawned clone and immobilise nearby targets.
12 second base cooldown

Just reversing the whole thing while maintaining the teleport would be so much better.

Heh, you answered it yourself – play mesmer for fun, play another class for efficiency.

Personally I think Chronomancer and Duelling will provide the most efficiency through Illusionary Reversion and DE – so you can combo shatter, ie setup either an F1/2/3 with 4 illusions (inc yourself of course, then dodge and F1/2/3 for an immediate 3 illusion follow up to maximise condition stacks.

Sadly that means dropping chaos, but I think it will have to be done.

Rashagar.8349:

Curunen.8729:

Where does it say PU in the title of the thread?

Condi builds have many variations. PU is a single trait, I know it’s a shocking revelation but it is possible to play Condi Mesmer without PU.

Have you tried playing without PU? How about without Scepter? Or without Blinding Dissipation?

I play with none of those things (sword/torch, staff) and can assure you it requires effort, skill and guile. I cannot simply “auto attack” someone to death…

Out of curiosity, do you find people still react more negatively than expected to playing against you when you play as condi mesmer but without those tools? (not meant in any sort of accusatory tone).

I know this is like a tangential conversation to the OP of this thread but I am curious where this derail leads.

Well I think it’s on topic in anycase so no worry about derailing the thread.

Most comments will be hate/moaning anyway – because that is the stigma attached to condi mesmer. Some will just shout “PU cancer” for the hell of it, some will say “condi scrub” and so on – the usual nonsense.

But I believe I have received more positive comments due to build choices – things like “I didn’t expect sword with condi”, to “gg wp mesmer”, “interesting build”, and so on.

Edit: for the record
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsfWlsnhy0YRawRNwtGLvGk5KGeNLnwGiGaAyZTA-TJRHwAp3fIZZAAnCABPBAA
I know it’s not the most efficient thing but I enjoy it and who cares about efficiency if you’re having fun.

As much as I’d love mesmer to be the focus, I can’t in good conscience put it above ranger or ele at the moment.

musu.9205:

Curunen.8729:

musu.9205:

Curunen.8729:

Yeah, Sceptre is the only one that stands out as being a serious and strong attack and not negligible fluff.

GS is just plain kitten.
Spear looks meh considering we already have feigned surge on a low cooldown for movement underwater.
Staff looks cool (sexy animation) but I’m not sure how strong the attack will be in practice.
Axe is… underwhelming, especially for the new weapon. Would be nice to see a unique melee animation or a bit more mobility.

Sword is… well it depends if the leap requires a target. If it doesn’t require a target meaning we can dodge leap freely anytime then it’s going to be an insane mobility skill and might make reverse phase retreat redundant. If it requires a target then it is weak. I like that it spawns a clone, I like the synergy with interrupt builds, but where is the damage?

I think they’re reluctant to give us any solid damage on weapons as long as we retain the ability to deal absurd amounts of instant damage with mind wrack. I really wish shatter skills had been replaced…

in other word : we need new shatter skills or entirely new f skills like necro elite next time for sustain power dmg

Yeah definitely.

I can only think they must be struggling with a way to make all our shatter traits work if changing our F1-F4 skills.

but after 2 expac mes got least new abilities among all classes , that does make me worried and sad. DD actually got 3 dodge to pick up, mirage is just one type lol given how awful gs ambush is , and sword ambush is not useful in pve .

new shatter could be something like souldbeast+ kit
instead of direct shatter , now all f skills must be active before summoning illusion ,once you active certain f skill , the illusion summoned will link to you , you use that f skill again, you consume those illusion to gain access to new weapon skills temporarily. the period is fixed but the power of those new weapon skills will be depending on how many illusion you consume .
f1 = power dps skills f2 condi f 3 cc + movement f4 defensive skills +self portal

I like the idea of the next spec being mesmer version of ranger (assuming Chrono is “necro” and Mirage is “thief” going by wells and deceptions as well as themes).

And yeah replacing shatters with direct control of illusions from F1 through F4 (or absorbing like soulbeast does). Difficulty is how would shatter traits proc, although I’m sure a solution can be created.

This is exactly the mindset I take – playing games within a game.

Oh, so it doesn’t matter missing the first day as all the answers must be sent together at the end of the hunt?

Great, this looks like fun – strangely reminds me of the scavenger hunt in The Pearls of Lutra (Redwall novel). Maybe because of all the animal/animal like creatures in the game (skritt, charr, hylek, quaggan, etc). Just need more mice/squirrels/hares/otters and so on around!

I’d be down for this.

Mawdrey could be a “precursor” for a legendary backpiece.

Sartharina.3542:

Well, if Charr weren’t a playable race, I’d probably have more of a life, and much larger bank. And the forums would be completely free of any of my posts.

Same for me, except asura instead of charr.

Half of what sold me on this game was the aesthetics of the asura – the character styles, the personalities, the lore/social structure and the architecture.

I would have never started playing this game if asura were not playable – in hindsight maybe would have been a good thing.

The asura personal stories are genius – so funny and entertaining. The characters – both npc and player are fantastic.

There are some really arrogant/miserable/obnoxious players, which is the ONLY thing in the game that truly annoys me.

Anyway, I just block/ignore and move on. Not going to waste my energy getting stressed over rude, unpleasant chat because people fail to have tolerance/acceptance/patience – or simply a lack of humility and respect for other players.

I don’t want to read that BS when playing. I never insult another player based on their class/build or actions in game, so I don’t expect it in return – if it’s an unranked I simply tolerate it and move on, REGARDLESS of whether we lose. You know because it’s a game and the moat important thing is to cultivate friendship with other players, not animosity. Funnily enough it would then be the other team spamming arrogant chat if we have one or two weak/new players such that it’s a guaranteed loss.

Ranked I would only ever play with a full team/guild group now (unlike previous team queue), so the only issue there comes from enemy players.

I just hate this BS – if the internet exists in 50 years (if we haven’t wiped ourselves out by then), I hope that as a species we have acquired some discipline and risen above the the ability to be unpleasant because of being anonymous.

Wait till we see the warrior spec…

Don’t worry – I’m sure it will be the most powerful by far, followed by thief.

Even in spvp other races don’t respect us, often going out of their way to insult us.

But asura always respect each other, even if they’re on the opposite team.

Mikkel.8427:

Condi mesmers don’t kill anyone, they just give people the opportunity to kill themselves.

lol, I’m saving that for posterity. xD

I agree that should be a minor trait as it kind of makes/breaks the theme of the spec – otherwise it’s going to be really easy to identify the real mesmer whenever they dodge.

I mean if they’re going to go to the whole trouble of removing normal dodge to make us blend in, then all clones should have the identical dodge effect whenever we dodge.

Melee damage > ranged damage.

Sustained phantasm damage against the pve bullet sponges > burst shatter damage.

Since they buffed MoD to be AoE, they should do the same with Diversion and make this default – and replace with a new trait.

As it is, IP is far superior.

Yeah sometimes I’d rather have a 4th utility slot instead of an elite.

Enjoyluck.2618:

you not suppose to buy it with in game gold LOL

Even so, at 250gems (nearly £3) for the ability to swap out 1 upgrade from 1 piece of equipment, that isn’t at all encouraging to try out new builds.

I demand this be fixed. Everything else can wait.
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:p

Hmm, can’t tell if troll thread… 4/10.

^What they said. In a nutshell – clone/phantasm/shatter contradictory mechanics, damage/utility/etc tied up in fragile illusions (ie useless in large scale wvw), ramp up time of damage (pve), resummoning required on target swap.

Embolism.8106:

Sword can be used in Condition builds the same way Staff can be used in Power builds: as a defensive weapon. In fact it’s probably easier for Condition builds to do this because Condition pressure comes mostly from Shatters, so your weapon choice isn’t as relevant.

This.

In pvp you can easily use sword as a defensive/mobility weapon in a condition build given most of your condition application will be through shatters. Taking either Scepter or Staff in the other set allows for more sustained pressure through the illusions (and Sharper Images if you take that).

Telekinesis.8312:

and where do the clones come from for shatters? :-P

the whole point of condition pressure from shatters is from scepter clones and regarding defensive weapon.. rather stick to a block that inflicts 6 stacks of torment over a 2 second invul that deals less dmg in condition spec not to mention confusing images and autoattack inflicting torment.. sword really has no place for condition mesmer in pve.

And this in pve – I also agree that Scepter + Staff is much better for condition builds in pve given you want higher sustained application.

So it totally depends:
- pve use native condition weapons because you need sustained high condition application and pressure. You don’t have to worry about avoiding that Rapid Fire, Backstab or Mirror Blade + F1 combo where Blurred Frenzy is a godsend.
- pvp/wvw you can use sword defensively because burst condition application through shatters plus sustained application through your second weapon set is enough to be successful vs the relatively small health bars of players.

It comes down to the fact that pve mobs are bullet/damage sponges whereas enemy players can be burst down much faster.

New weapons, new skills and subclasses.

takatsu.9416:

Just based on the personality in your post I think you’ll love the Mesmer LOL

This, no joke.

OP, pick your class based on the theme you enjoy – if it’s all things to do with undeath/vomit green/disgusting undead creatures/disease… (makes me sick just typing it :p), then go with necro.

If you like pink/purple, butterflies, pretty things, art/magic, awesome mind/time/space bending skills and skill names, love seeing more of yourself, then go with mesmer.

Efficiency is a secondary consideration when picking class, because you will be disappointed – if not now, then in the future when Anet decides to nerf/buff/break something.

Staff is awful at the moment.

Auto attack damage and condis are weak.
iWarlock attack is too easy to avoid (and not that great damage in pure condi builds)
Chaos armour sucks hardcore and Staff #4 is so bad on a huge cooldown.

The only reasons I would currently take staff are Phase Retreat which is pretty much the only saving grace of this weapon, and Chaos Storm mainly for the Daze procs to either prevent enemy rezzing or whatever.

Otherwise Staff is in dire need of a significant damage buff in all areas, and Staff #4 needs to be deleted/replaced.

So much for silently standing in a corner… The nerf hammer has autotargeting when it comes to mesmer…

There are different ways, buy mostly those numbers are against enemy glass cannons (ie thieves or other mesmers), especially with the mirror blade nerf.

Easiest is (stealth) – Mirror Blade – Blink – (MoD) – Dodge overhead + F1 (3 illusion shatter) – Mind Stab

Take Mental Anguish, boon strip and other damage boost sources (sigils, food, traits).

You can also try with the mantra damage boost but personally I don’t like that and find DE more useful overall.

apharma.3741:

So, given how most mesmers in WTS had very little impact do you think we’ve seen an end to most of the nerd crys?

No – not until we have all the ability, health pool and damage potential of a single clone.

It will never stop.

Ohoni.6057:

A puzzle that relies on “Trial and error” is poorly designed.

agreed. Any good JP, you should be able to use intelligent reasoning to determine the correct next jump before you make it. If something looks right but turns out to be impossible or auto-kill you, then that’s not good gameplay, it’s just needlessly cruel.

I agree and that’s the only thing I don’t like about this JP – as you said all jumps should be deducable with careful thought, not trial and error – killing your character each time and restarting from a checkpoint.

On that note, the checkpoint system made this JP much easier. I think that Troll’s Revenge, Skipping Stones and Scavenger’s Chasm are much harder (oh and mad king’s clock tower).

mrstealth.6701:

Curunen.8729:

Windsagio.1340:

You see what you want to see.

First reply = best reply.

I can see a lot of potential – and more useful diversity than at present. Depending how things are tweaked and finalised it could be fantastic.

Or we could have all of the good changes, and the current flexibility if we could still partially invest in a traitline/spec and continue being able to sacrifice a major trait for a second adept.

Tachenon.5270:

Useful diversity? Useful? To whom?

Some folks don’t care if one of the ‘new’ builds hugs corners better, or some other ‘new’ build can go from 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds. They’d rather drive the one they customized themselves from parts they scrounged from the junk heap out back. So what if it gets poor gas mileage and the windshield wipers don’t work. Is this game some sort of race? Is the EPA running Anet? The point being, these individuals paid for the game just like everybody else. Their money is just as (insert appropriate color here) as anyone else’s. Why are they the ones whose vehicles are being crushed into neat, easily stackable squares?

“Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black.” ~ Henry Ford.

Wvw and pvp are competitive => if you’re running something that is well below par you will be in for a hard time.

The way people talk about dungeons/pve, it is also competitive => the same thing applies.

From a mesmer perspective – there are currently so many negligable traits, despite the “flexibility” of being able to pick what you want most of it is useless and the result is less than a handful of “core” builds with minor variations, across all 3 game modes.

That is not diverse.

With these changes, who knows where the state of the game will end up, but potentially with each trait having a more meaningful impact there will be more reason to branch out.

@Kury

Ok I see – so condition PU, just with 4 in illusions for ielasticity and 33% confusion duration instead of 4 in domination for torch trait?

Condi PU is generally seen as the most survivable wvw roaming build – although the classic setup generally means enemies will easily run away, so there are variants for taking suitable snares/chase/mobility skills in order to guarantee kills.

It is by far the easiest mesmer build to play and also considered the best duelling build (ie banned from duelling servers) because of the passive condition application and effortless sustain, so you’re right about finding it easy. If enemies are not running from you in a 1v1 they will be in for a tough time – and the nature of hotjoin means most people won’t think to run. Good to know you limit your stealth in pvp.

The thing is against decent teams with good condi cleanse and synergy it tends to fall apart unless you are successfully pulling multiple enemies to focus you and -1 a teamfight elsewhere. The lack of sufficient burst (even condi burst) and cleansing from say celestial warrior/eles or similar means enemy teams can just ignore you in a teamfight while they steamroll your allies – and then force you to run/hide. Have you tried in any unranked/ranked matches with it?

Exactly as roamzero said, full cele isn’t a good idea without the ability to might stack (and you have to choose between MtD and Shattered Strength…). Your damage output will be very mediocre.

I personally use cele trinkets with viper weapons and armour (cele chestpiece). I have found it to work well while solo roaming or small group – the cele trinkets provide just enough stats to not be one shot and viper gives you the teeth to do damage.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Diru.4531:

I see your point. Does swapping “Warden’s Feedback” with the new minor trait “Inspiring Distortion” make more sense?

Anyway, I hope there’s something they can do. I don’t see many mesmers raid much anymore so a change like this is pretty disappointing.

Keep in mind you may not even be using Focus for much longer once Chronomancer drops, the Shield offers a lot of possibilities and kind of overlaps roles with the Focus.

Can shield fling people off ledges?

;)

Focus will still have a place I’m sure. Curtain is too much fun.

Embolism.8106:

As it is the Sceptre is really a hybrid weapon, not a condi weapon. In a Power build Ether Bolt does comparable damage to Mind Slash and Confusing Images does more damage than Blurred Frenzy. Illusionary Counter also does a respectable amount of direct damage, which is much more than could be said about Illusionary Leap.

I really hope balancing for the Sceptre keeps its currently hybrid nature instead of trying to push it further into the condi weapon niche. For one thing it’s a kitten shame, for another the Mesmer only has two mainhands so have one of them be a hybrid jack-of-all is perfect… provided it’s competitive either way.

Although confusing images and the auto attack do solid power damage, I find that iCounter direct damage is weak compared with before they split it to add torment.

Even with the bugs, I’ll take ileap’s mobility over iCounter in a power build any day.

Maybe if they reduced the duration of the torment stacks on iCounter, and buffed the direct damage.

Haha, fantastic!

Everything about that is just perfect.

I don’t rate Tormenting runes that highly anymore as before the patch for several reasons.

Traiting manipulations and taking mirror heal does not mesh well with the 6th bonus.
MtD nerf means less torment stacks applied.

Once Chrono 25% movement speed comes along I’d honestly take Nightmare ot Perplexity over Tormenting – assuming our torment application remains in its current state.

At the moment though, unless using a focus or signet of inspiration (or speed sigils if you want to be different), Traveler is the best in wvw.

Welcome! Enjoy the butterflies!

GS + Sw/D melee power ranger is actually my favourite “alt”, and the only other class build I truly enjoy besides mesmer.

The day Anet finally decides to nerf/revert PU will be the day that people finally wake up and realise mesmers are nowhere near as dangerous in 1v1 as they are assumed to be, at least not anymore as they used to be in the past.

Regarding pure 1v1, p/d condition thief takes the cake, but in any case there are a lot of monsters out there…

Levetty.1279:

The first rule of Guild Wars 2 players is ‘Does Mesmer still exist? Yes? Its OP nerf it’

Haha, post of the day.

lol, everyone’s lists are subjective.

The only reason I play GW2 is because Mesmer exists.

FLIMP.8172:

This is not allowed to be on page 2.

Please bring back the original MtD. I don’t want to play a super passive mesmer spamming staff 1 1 1 1 1 50% of the time…

I couldn’t agree more.

MtD nerf was crude, callous and totally misguided – especially when comparing to all the power builds on every class dealing insane damage burst and condition builds on other classes (ie burn builds) dealing equally insane condition damage ticks.

MtD was perfectly fine at 2 stacks, even with IP.

If it’s considered too powerful when used with PU, then for goodness sake deal with PU – I dunno, decrease all condition damage and power by 50% when in stealth, or just reduce the duration and mindless boon spam.

Look at other trait combinations causing issues if necessary but for goodness sake revert MtD to 2 stacks…

Oh they will, it’s just a short respite.

I bet this weekend will see even more complaints… :/

Xaylin.1860:

Curunen.8729:

Daniel Handler.4816:

bump because vanity.

Trouble now is what sacrifice to make to get the slow access and other chronomancer benefits.

Duelling/Chaos/Chrono for condi interrupt builds.
Duelling/Illusions/Chrono for condi shatter builds.
Duelling/Inspiration/Chrono for condi phantasm builds.

Done.

lolDuelling.

So much for variety. xD

Anyway as this thread is solely about condirupt rather than any other build, it seems Duelling/Chaos/Chrono is the only way to go, if taking chrono (but I may still prefer duelling/chaos/inspiration or other core trait line combinations).

Sagat.3285:

A revamp version of glamour bomb mesmer…aappreciated but not that innovative.

True, but at least it looks like it will have more depth than the glamour/confusion builds – we’ll have to wait for the details, but I’d imagine with those new effects there should be more options in how to play (compared to mindlessly racking up confusion).

I think that too much relies on Shattered Concentration when it comes to decent boon removal.

Similar to how too much relies on Restorative Illusions (and menders purity for free) if you want decent condi cleanse.

I would like to see less reliance on such pivotal traits (meaning either you have to take Domination or you have to take Inspiration if you want to be good at one or the other..) and instead spreading the ability around weapon and utility skills. The buffs to iDisenchanter were a start but it’s still way too fragile and clunky to be anything other than a gimmick.

It’s the beginning of nerfs to prepare everyone to shift to Mirage and buy the next expansion.

I’m expecting Chrono to get some gutting sadly. :/