Festive Imbiber is a ridiculous achievement if you ask me.
Why has ANet adopted this policy of introducing overly expensive or grindy achievements? Why must we pay for achievements with gold or mindless farming instead of earning them through actual challenge or fun events? Shouldn’t Wintersday be fun?
I don’t understand. The game has been taking increasingly worse turns lately. How can you keep making so many poor decisions, one after the other without proper testing or implementation? Did you just think “oh, let’s make it 10 000 drinks because that’s the first number that popped into my head”? Did you even consider the potential costs involved for the player, in terms of time or gold and consider whether it was balanced or viable?
You are forcefully ensuring only a minority will be able to get these shoulders (thanks to resource limitations that will become increasingly worse once Wintersday ends). If your new policy is to make a game that’s rewarding and fun only for a minority, I honestly think my days in GW2 are numbered. I’m becoming very frustrated lately and I don’t think I’m the only one.
If you have/haven’t played Guild Wars 1 then you would/wouldn’t know that this isn’t a “New Policy” on how these types of things work.
More so if you consider the original drinking track in GW1 required that you had to drink X amount of drinks first then at a certain intoxication level it started ticking off time spent drunk so long as you STAYED at that same level consistently in order to keep the timer going without having to restart the entire process.
It wasn’t until way later that they changed it to a point system with each drink giving something like 1-3 points with a total of 10k needed, but you were not getting several hundred drinks a day and did not have a Trading Post to easily acquire them without having to camp a main city and spam /trade.
It was actually dumbed down quite a bit, and while way easier than those who got it originally it still was a long grind if you didn’t want to or couldn’t be bothered with trying to stand around all day trading/buying.
I am sure other GW1 Veterans can testify to just how many tracks had been “Dumbed Down” over time from the start of and through the last few years of GW1.
So I can agree with you to a point on how 10k is quite a bit (even if left on through out the whole year) seeing as how it can only be advanced by Wintersday drinks, but this is nothing new with ArenaNet let alone them having adopted a "New Policy.
Maybe they should have added a “Wintersday Gift Exchange Merchant” where you could of took the other foods/junk from gifts and exchanged them at a 3-1 rate.
You are right, there are people who are simply unable to get certain items from the game. But to make it easier for those people is to cheapen it for others who are proud of what they’ve done.
Not easier, equal. We should all have an equal chance to get things in this game.
When you make content that is especially difficult or impossible for players with disabilities to do part of a requirement for an event, item or story, then you are actively excluding players. You are making them less than the other players.
Before I go any further, I agree we should be open, considerate and constructive posters.
It was nice to read your idealistic writing, but you can’t make anything skill based and give everyone an equal chance by the definitions your posts strongly suggest, so I have to disagree with even though the spirit of your post comes from a good place.
First off, you try to say make easier and make equal are different in this situation. They are not. Adding a colorblind option (say shading) to the start menu/game is making it equal, changing core gameplay mechanisms (jumping + timed gameplay) to accommodate disabilities is flatting out the challenge to lower the entry level. Don’t stop here, read further because I will expand on this (spoiler because Wall of Text).
Your entire argument is the core validation for catering to the lowest denominator, which doesn’t work in the current scenario. I wish we could all be happy and the lowest denominator was high enough to challenge everyone enough for it to be fun, but it isn’t. We arn’t equal so you can’t provide a one size fits all solution. We’re not even close enough to make setting a threshold value include most people.
If ones hands don’t work well any more, and one chooses a hobby that involves precision work with one’s hands from time to time and then one goes on to choose the aspect (this this case game) in which precision work is actually more often needed for certain rewards. Instead of accepting limitations, as they have been a factor in the hobby for years (so either played that time or probably should have done research), one thinks that, since its just a hobby, “why can’t the whole hobby be brought down a notch” to make it so I have just as good a chance as the person who choose this hobby because he was good with handwork and he takes joy from excelling in it.
You are putting the choice between the disabled person being able to enter on equal ground to get an optional shiny, and the fun of good jumper being rewarded for his ability. If you cannot see how this is potentially harmful, we have nothing more to discuss. If you understand the issue, but still lean towards the disabled person playing a hand precision game as the default best choice, you are ignoring the fact that he isn’t the target audience for this content, his abilities if you quantify it would be at the low end of the bell curve that is beyond the chosen cut-off. Lowering the cut-off to include him it makes a lower skill level accessible, eg making the content easier (and we made it, phew).
Yes theoretically the encounter design could have been made to accommodate both, but it would no longer be the same challenge (and cost more effort to make = be more expensive). You are just shifting the skill being tested (easiest way I can think of is my beloved OR option, which I would vouch for BUT it comes with the new challenge of balancing the options because if one is significantly easier than the other it become a non-choice and equivalent to just nerfing it to something easier, thus changing the mechanic to the easier option). At some point they have to draw the line and say “You have to be able to do this if you want x, so people who earn x feel accomplished”
The balancing kind of concept seems beyond the scopes of this game design/funding, and has proven to be for years, returning to the “you choose this hobby” idea.
Another separate issue that plays a role is the game development/publishing itself. The game lacked “endgame” and the forums were filled with “nothing to do” by leavers. GW1 was better is also a popular saying among a group of vets. Anet is under NCsoft, NCsoft axes games if they don’t make enough money. Ergo attempting to cater to a larger audience in order to improve numbers. GW1 style long term grind that can be bypassed with a large sink and wealth redistribution. Completely ignoring what you and I think about this “solution”, there is probably reasoning behind the design decisions (need some higher cut-offs, whether they be grinding or skill). This reasoning is both unknown and confounding.
Stupid real life comparison example because they’re mandatory or something:
I have difficulty breathing in high moisture, so I don’t pick up the hobby Soccer player in a coastal region, despite being a soccer player before in a desert region. If I did, then would it be fair if I ask the ref to make walking the only method of moving. Taking it a step further, if I was wheelchair bound, do I join the regular club and ask for the entire game to be brought down to my level to make it so I have an “equal” chance (walking/slow so I can keep up, no headers, no jumping, surfaces must be accessible, no slide tackles, etc etc)? Its not like I’m asking for special privileges, let’s just make it so everyone can do it starting by catering to my group. I mean, its a game, we should all have an equal chance, right?
Its just being fair right, everyone walks at my speed so we can all compete. Equality!
[The farfetched example completely falls apart because there are similar games that do cater to my theoretical handicap group, but if you keep it within the limits I used I think its fair.]
Sorry for the wall of text.
TL;DR Although we should be nice and constructive like OP says, OP’s views are idealistic and are inapplicable to the current issue. Its not easy to build equal encounters, let alone equal encounters requiring or rewarding skill. And there will always be someone who is excluded, so a line must be drawn somewhere.
Thing is, there’s room for both types of play in GW2, except that some players who are in the drop-in/drop-out category want some of the rewards that are obviously aimed at the all-in players.
Absolutely. And caving into those players is a royally bad idea..
This isn’t about downgrading content. This is about the shift of gw2 philosophy on platforming. In vanilla gw2 platforming was peripheral to the game. Since HoT platforming has become a requirement for things in the game.
Getting those shoulders is not a requirement. Man up and admit you just want the shoulders rather then pretending you are an expert in game design..
That’s the thing, isn’kitten Is GW2 a game for people to unwind after a hard day, click a few things, maybe kill some mobs or do some events, or is it an MMO? ANet aimed for MMO, which means long-term goals for MMO players who want to and do throw many hours at the game most days of the year. Thing is, there’s room for both types of play in GW2, except that some players who are in the drop-in/drop-out category want some of the rewards that are obviously aimed at the all-in players.
OP is wrong. And this is just a bad idea in general.
Here is why – this is a video game and the developers are human. That means they CANNOT write code that takes into account the disability/time limitations of a player and adjust the content accordingly. They do not have magic abilities.
What they COULD do is either give the content away (likely what the OP really wants) OR they COULD make it even MORE grindy and easier.
Both of these solutions suck. The idea here is that this item is something special – for someone who puts in the time and conquers the challenges of the festival. That is a good idea – as developers do want to reward the best players. That encourage more people to play.. Exclusivity is GOOD for a game.
Just ask Blizzard with their raiding for everyone mantra how their NA market is compared to even Vanilla WoW..
Listen to wrong people and your game will crater. There are legions of people that just want ‘stuff’ and when they get it – they just quit because there is nothing to do. Caving into these people is a disaster.
Its this mentality that everyone should have everything regardless of effort put forth that wrecks games. Not that I’m not sympathetic to those who cant get the stuff they want, but like playing CoD/BF/WoW/any game and complaining that you cant do X because its hard and it should be nerfed to fit you.
In addition the game has so many cool looking kitten near free items that you can use to make your character look cool. (I got mine looking that way i want with 800 gems and some teq runs)
BTW I will not be getting winters day presence this year, I want it BUT I don’t have the time so I wont be. I want it but 10k drinks is 9k drinks to many IMHO.
This issue has little to do with effort and more about exclusivity. The other threads have proposed very reasonable alternatives to the acquisition of this skin: tokens, for example, which can be earned via every Wintersday activity or dailies.
It has NOTHING to do with exclusive here; no one is excluded from the activities required to make this item.
All I really have to say is I have disabilities that do not allow me to do jumping puzzles, and I DEFINITELY don’t have the spare time/money to be grinding constantly for drinks and whatnot. It isn’t really about making it easier. It’s about making it possible to do in the first place.
The more time I spend doing this event, and the more time I see such terrible negativity (one could argue that those who don’t have any issues and don’t want to change the current system are the ones with entitlement issues), the more it drains out of me. I do like the Christmas stuff, and I DO want to earn the skins and titles, but it’s just too much to ask of my, physically and mentally.
I just want to play video games and have fun. For me, it’s an escape from real life. It’s disheartening to see that that doesn’t seem to matter to anyone here.
If you play video games to have fun, the skin shouldn’t matter to you.
While I definitely have my own complaints about Wintersday, I cannot help but notice that the overall sentiment expressed in this thread is: “This doesn’t cater to me.”
Challenging content is supposed to be challenging. Arguing that there should be alternative ways to complete “challenging content” utterly defeats the purpose of offering challenging content.
As far as JPs go, this one is NOT hard.
What is annoying, and one of the few points I do agree with, is the fact that people camp/stay in/do whatever they want in the JP zone excluding everyone. I feel that Anet should implement some sort of measure to ensure that people cannot infinitely run the JP and make everyone else sit and wait for their pleasure. Just my two cents.
I find the idea of a geocentric universe sexually arousing.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Remember, you’re the one that responded to my post. It wasn’t the other way around. I made an observation on what I have noticed and you’re the one trying to invalidate what I said and dismiss it. Follow your own advice. Thanks.
I took what you originally said as dismissive of the topic at hand in general.
“I see it as a fad item and people will move on to the next hot item.”
Ok, so fine, your opinion, but in a thread that was primarily about how some community members are basically invalidating the the life circumstances of others, I think you can see how it might come across.
And when I challenged you on it, rather than simply reminding me that it was your opinion from the beginning, you dug in your heels by using phrases like “people will get over it.” I think you can see how that would only succeed in confirming the way I had interpreted what you originally said. And then I went into even more detail and again, rather than reminding me that it was your opinion, you tell me this:
You act as if what Anet did with the collection is wrong simply because you disagree with it. People tend to overreact to whatever they dislike and blow it way out of what it really is. Over time they get over it and move on.
Confirming even more the kind of attitude I interpreted from your original post, even going so far as to say that people overreact and blow things out of proportion.
So yeah… I may have gone after “your opinion” too quickly and I apologize for that, but it seems from how you reacted that you were, in fact, of an overall dismissive mind toward the topic at hand, so in terms of what you said after your first post, I don’t apologize and I see nothing wrong with having called you on it.
I wasn’t being dismissive of whether people disliked it or not. It was about the people who blow it out to be much more than it really is. Think of it this way. Teenagers in high school often blow their problems up into being the end of the world. That’s what I have seen often in this game which was why I posted my observation.
If you don’t want spoilers you should probably avoid the internet in general, and see the movie as soon as you possibly can. Someone is bound to post spoilers…if not here then in game, or other games, or on facebook, or on twitter, or in youtube comments, or….you get the idea. >.>
No spoilers. Enjoyable movie. I’m old so nice punch in the nostalgia feels. Go see it.
Oh, and Trolls will be Trolls. If not in this game than another, or social media, or a hashtag. So only way to fight it is to shut yourself out of social media or beat them to the punch and go see it ASAP. Otherwise it’s the sad nature of anonymous nature of the Internet.
Ok? I had a brother die suddenly years ago. It took me some years, but I’m more or less over it at this point.
It didn’t make it any less tragic and painful at the time, or while I was working through it.
Obviously GW2 problems are nothing on the level of a brother dying – I know that more than anyone. But the point, I hope, is obvious. The fact that you can get over something doesn’t somehow make it excusable or ok, nor does it mean that people will forget.
I don’t really get what the point of your post is, to be honest. The people who were frustrated enough to remember will remember and the ones who were only mildly frustrated will probably forget. And the world will keep on spinning. That has nothing to do with the current conversation though, which is about how the community is acting and how people feel about the design in question.
You act as if what Anet did with the collection is wrong simply because you disagree with it. People tend to overreact to whatever they dislike and blow it way out of what it really is. Over time they get over it and move on.
I wonder how they’ll make sure the achievement will stay after Wintersday?
I mean it is clearly a Wintersday achievement and they’re usually taken away after Wintersday ends. After all it’s THE achievement that gives us the item needed to complete the collection.
Or will it be converted from seasonal to standard? I just don’t get it.
As for the gifts and your anxiety that there won’T be enough for everyone during the year: A lot of people have that tree and sell their gifts every day. Each year there had been a huge supply on gifts on the market, although you could only gain them through the tree, as well as that, there will be a constant supply of drinks.
And they’ll drop in price too. So no need to fear. x)
I’ve always been able to buy 10k’s of gifts during the year to do the poker for the exotic waterbreather – which now seems to drop more often than before.
If I remember correctly, this event has run longer than most, over the last few years.
This year it easily could. If you apply some of the posted numbers here to a 6 week event then the numbers lose all their drama and it’s easier to reach the goal.
The event is in one spot and could likely be running at the same time as other things.
This is all just speculation until we find out how long the event is.
If someone gets the answer to how long this Wintersday event runs, please post it here.
LOL people commenting you should stop using the internet if you don’t want spoilers… how sensible. Maybe people just need to stop living if they don’t want spoilers too?
If I’ve seen a movie that I liked, I’ll want to talk about it. It’s not my fault that someone else is the one who doesn’t want spoilers. Have some common sense. Of course people are going to talk about it, and that’s not their problem. If the person with the issue has options to stop seeing potential spoilers, then utilise them and quit whining. There are more than enough options in-game for that already.
45 characters, 20 level 80s, 11 impersonal story completions and counting.
I’m older, I grew up with Star Wars, I never got the memo that it’s fans have become ultra sensitive kittens.
I’m gonna go with the OP here and furthermore say why don’t we just skip all the foreplay, and get straight to the book burning. It’s been 80 years and humanity is ready for Round 3.
Seriously though, thin skin seems to be what’s in right now, id say suck it up buttercup, life will go on.
Thanks for sharing this information. But when you say “We will not be able to change the text that indicates it’s a Wintersday-only achievement,” does that mean you physically cannot or it would take too much effort to find the code to edit that? Well, there are better things you guys are probably working on anyway :P
Sarevok.2638:
How can we get drinks throughout the year?
Quite easily! If you do the Grawnk “quest”, you get a Wintersday tree in your home instance which you can harvest every day for a free present! You can also buy them on the trading post throughout the year, but the tree does give a slow, but stead supply of presents.
That’s great, so to get this achievement will only take 34 years
Are you… completely ignorant to the existence of the Trading Post? And the fact that you can start opening presents with drinks inside NOW? Seriously dude?? Lol…
