Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

Andele.1306:

I can have condi removal on blood fiend….
Also The initial mantra cast (the channel to create the charges) removes one (might be patched out but i know it used to since it counts as “casting” a heal (just as on engies hkit swapping counts as “using a heal”) and last but not least, if you scroll up the page youll see me stating, no its not the optimal setup and mesmers are actually held into their optimal trait setup because its just dancing on the edge between stronger than usual and bloody op, but that still doesnt mean they dont have the means to remove condis if they wanna (unlike us for example that can at best get 1 more condi clear pre 6 seconds from traits).

Wow you are so far off base. No you do not remove a condition when you prep the mantra. That does not count as using your heal skill. I know as well as several other mesmers and the only thing that is “bloody OP” is necromancers in their current implementation. Sorry sir but Mesmer condition removal is laughable when compared to just about any other class in this game including a warrior. And also one more condi clear every six secons? More like one condition every 2 seconds. 5 minions and each one siphons a condition from you every 10s not to mention off hand dagger that transfers conditions and the staff 4 that transfers conditions. Are you really going to try to tell me that Mesmer condition removal is just so much more amazing then a necromancers?

Mhhhm, totally correct, you are so brilliant thatyou know that every necromancer is running minions and they are just as viable kittenter builds and that both dagger 4 and staff 4 cannot be dodge, a giant swarm of flies and black swirly animations that summon a big red circle with a snake ontop while the necro gets a scythe are totally instant skills.

/snark off
No Mesmers, Necros, Warriors and Engies got the lower end of reliable condi removal, but that doesnt mean they are that weak to conditions that “oh kitten mesmers cannot fight necro”, you get the correct runes (melandru or lyssa depending on your elite) or Arcane thievery (full on maip build with IoL blink and it), Null field (again glamour roam build for portal decap) and last but not least Defensive traits with offensive amulet instead of going glass cannon.

Elidath.5679:

And yes you said it was possible-albeit-non-optimal, what we say is it is way worse than “not optimal”. It means sacrificing your whole build only to cleanse. Except people have no reason anymore to put conditions on you since you are utterly useless. So, mission complete, I guess ? “I might be dead, but at least I cleansed those condition, yay for me”.
Last, but not least, it still don’t legitimate this thread which fail to makes any point. “Mesmers have it good because numbers on one trait” makes no sense.

If by " sacrificing your whole build", you mean 100 power and 10% cond dur, boon strip and some vuln for 1 condition pre 15 seconds (or 2 pre 10 if you like mantras), retal on phantasams (really annoying) and 1000 more hp, then yes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Grenth%27s_Balance – On the same cooldown and cast time it has X3
If not then:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Spiteful_Spirit (3/4 cast 140 cooldown, Spectral type)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Spoil_Victor (1 cast 180 cooldown, Corruption type)
Special change of human racial to: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avatar_of_Grenth if on necro.

To the no animation thing, necro staff gets a giant scythe, they move their hands like dealing a spread of poker cards in blackjack (unlike the windmill swing of the auto attack) and a black swirl pops on the ground for 1/4 of a second (more than on a lot of mesmer and engie skills that people still dodge on a pretty reliable basis). if that isnt a sign move out of the way/dodge trough the mark idk what is.

I can have condi removal on blood fiend….
Also The initial mantra cast (the channel to create the charges) removes one (might be patched out but i know it used to since it counts as “casting” a heal (just as on engies hkit swapping counts as “using a heal”) and last but not least, if you scroll up the page youll see me stating, no its not the optimal setup and mesmers are actually held into their optimal trait setup because its just dancing on the edge between stronger than usual and bloody op, but that still doesnt mean they dont have the means to remove condis if they wanna (unlike us for example that can at best get 1 more condi clear pre 6 seconds from traits).

Btw Blood fiend underwater = bloody strong (he attacks like twice as fast) X3

jportell.2197:

Mesmer heals that remove conditons…..
………
……… OH yeah none.

Necros needed love this patch but not in the way they got it. they needed survivability not more damage. If you want to gripe about Mesmer condition removal be my guest but any competent player will laugh their hats off.

You know if a mesmer wants, he can get: condi off shatter, condi off each heal cast (yes all 3 of the mantras casts count), condi off torch use (making the useless magus a weaker engie toolkit heal turret and the prestiege even stronger) and a signet/distortion combo to be immune for 1 second each time they cast a signet to remova a condi. Honestly anyone who thinks the 10 points for condi off on heal (with reflect) aint worth it on a mesmer in pve probably also thinks greater marks isnt needed in pvp (it isnt in pve and wvwvw, but it is mantatory in pvp for staff users).

vinceftw.5086:

Mesmer interrupt trait (multiple traits): random boon or condition, interrupts don’t last long enough.
Necromancer interrupt: up to 4 seconds long or even more, deals 1.2k+ damage per second.
Mesmer scepter auto attack: 500-1200 (power builds)
Necromancer scepter adds bleeds like no other.
Mesmer has a base health of 15k, that’s it.
Necromancer has 18k+ and a double health bar.
Mesmer short cooldowns because most weapon skills are support and auto attacks suck.
Necro longer cooldowns for better weapon skills.

If you see this list you’d think a mesmer has no chance against a necro and this is true often. You can fear while he’s doing blurred frenzy, his safeguard (which was needed to deal some damage), and then just condi bomb him.

I’m no way implying mesmer is weak but please, stop trying to make necro look weak as you’re probably the strongest class at the moment.

Forgotten notes:
Mesmers have at least 1 on weapon sets, neros have to take wh and staff for it. Both got one in proffession mechanic only the mesmers can be stun/daze for total 8 seconds just via mechanic, necro can get that much only if 1. enemy is within 600 2. drops 10 more points for either damage or duration (your pick whats more important) 3). Uses up a utility slot 4. offers up his runes for condi duration.

Mesmer scepter is the only ranged weapon you can pre charge giving a instant shatter on enemy (usually daze) since the clone spawns on the enemy

Necros “double hp bar” degenerates and we have no invul, you got a default one with 3 free other hp bars if you play right/are good enough to trick.

For weapons i give you this example:
Dagger 2 – 1.9k over 3 seconds – about the same amount healed, single target
Sword 2 – 1.7k over 1 seconds – 2 seconds of immunity to all attacks, melee cleave

Stakitten – Aoe fear with 300 damage, potential additional 800~1600 damage, can be dodged into to do nothing
Stakitten – Aoe eitheral field with daze chill weakness cripple (so guaranteed at least 1 soft cc) with free defensive boons for 5 allies in aoe, free chaos armor when combined with staff 2 cannot be stopped by enemy

For short the only 2 “weak” skills on weapons (pre viable builds) are mind stab (aftercast) and Pmage (Clone retal and shatter fodder) for Mesmers, Necros get Feast of Corruption (worth nothing in condi build) and Rending Claws
Also in general pre all weapons mesmers got 4 seconds lower cooldowns and almost identical base power damage pre skills.

RashanDale.3609:

Andele.1306:

Petty sure the strongest spam boons (protection – down to 25%/10%, aegis*blocking in general* – only blocks damage not actual skill effects, vigor – down to 75%, Might – 25 at 80) will be nerfed in some time soon, so no worries.

that sounds awful, just like the horrible retal-nerf.
what chesire said; they should have big effects but less accessible.

Btw, do you have a source for that? or just speculation?

Gut feeling and how much they are needed in pvp, also how much builds around them appear in hotjoins that copy said actual pvp streams.
So far i got a nice list of correct guesses (DD ele, Retal nerf, Confusion fix, Thief port and backstab/mug combo, Necro buffs not actually fixing anything, Bfrenzy getting nerfed, pressure we can push being too much, warriors actually being capable solo fighters now with technically more damage output that is also mostly pushed into special baskets instead of even).

The numbers are actually just random speculation/what would make sense with a-net logic.

You know WoB heals for way more and that Consume is the only viable non target dependant cleanse… right?

Nordic Natedog.4360:

“Final note on the general mesmer thing, they dont slot mantras because they are held into other roles that they do even better, not that mantras are unviable (hell you can be a better healer than a ele with mantra spam since you also daze the enemy and provide quite strong secondary damage with phantasam bleeds/confusion.”

Did you seriously call the secondary damage of phantasm bleeds/confusion strong with that kind of role? Confusion has been nerfed so that even running a condition build, it still hardly makes people wince when they have it now. Factor in to place that you have a whole 75 cond damage and 0% condition duration with this setup, bleeds and confusion do nothing at all.

Glamours outside of zerg fighting are basically useless. There are some engagements where feedback can be strong (facing multiple ranged foes like rangers) but null field generally more a utility cleanse for a mesmer as the boon stripping can easily be avoided and aside from running into a group of boon guardians doesn’t even hamper our opponents much unless there are several mesmers around carrying it.

As others have stated, stop calling nerf this and nerf that but rather ask for some buffs where there are holes in the profession. BTW, balancing doesn’t mean that every class/build should be able to be every other class in a particular engagement (whether 1v1 or group setting).

You know that the build is based on sustain and gradually pressuring your opponent, for that/the amount of tanking you can do, the amount of condition damage it deals it is strong (just as on the dd ele was and just as it still is on bunker guardians).
Complementation skills like glamours and manipulations do make builds, they are based on weapons and class mechanic, you know, just like necro spectrals.
Signets are as on every profession a mixed bag.

Works quite well in a zerker 30/10/0/0/30 setup with life transfer and wells, but its mostly a useless trait, just like the 25% slower degen and 20% bleed duration for its slot.

Elidath.5679:

Yes, but that is a whole build dedicated to it, not a skill. The mantra in itself is still weak, only some traits give it some use, and even then you wont be doing much more than that.

Still, this thread is only about someone feeling bad because the numbers on another class aren’t the same as his. You know what ? 100b numbers are higher than any mesmer numbers. And it means exactly nothing about balance and how easy a class has it. You’ll find a lot of mesmer that would kill for necro condition cleanse (or necro condition build). But to them I would say “roll necro”, not “nerf necro”.

Here is a bit of general info:
Mesmer pov: Shatter and phant = good, Glamour/Mani = ok, Mantra = bad
Pov from anyone else: Shatter and Phant = bloody overpowered no matter how much you swap the damage, its chain tanking, retaliation and Guardian elite on half the cooldown – unfixable because its in core design, Glamour/Manin = good, Mantra = Ok

Its a thing of perception, if you start with something overpowered anything else seems weak, even if its on a normal/balanced line with most other builds.

Elidath.5679:

Well, you have to look at the whole picture. Mesmer scepter has indeed a good trait… because the weapon is totally weak (merely acceptable in PvP, totally useless in PvE and WvW).
As for heals, using the mantra of healing as a baseline is misleading. The mantra by itself heal for a ridiculously low amount, and need to be charged for almost 3s before reuse. Not exactly screaming “overpowered”.
Null field, compared to corrupt boon ? Longer CD, no underwater use, not instant (1 boon a second, for 5s, for a maximum of 5 boons), not unblockable, no conversion of said boons into conditions, add a casting time (can’t be used while CC’d and can be interrupted with some luck). Is one or the other OP, and which is the strongest, I don’t know (they both have their good point), but for sure they aren’t that similar.
The mantra of stability isn’t much to speak about outside of PvE. Yes, it is a quickly reloading stunbreak, but the stability is way too short to be of any use, and again you have 3s of loading that prevent you from using it ever again should the battle take too much time. Now you get a dead utility slot. Just look at how much mesmer slot it (zero, that is), to see how OP it is

@Kravick : it is a recurring problem of the mesmer that it’s too strong in 1 Vs 1 duel (which no game mode feature, and is said by ANet to not be a concern for balance) but grow quickly weak with the size of the engagement, and the difference between game mode is huge, bringing balance decision in a mode that break another (for example, portal being trashed in PvE with no good reason other than “WvW complained”, or shattered strength getting usefull in PvE made it totally OP in sPvP until the next nerf). Good thing they begin to split PvE/PvP, maybe things will go better in the future, for mesmers’ opponent as much as for mesmers themselves.

Heal mantra is there for the heal trait (just as damage mantra), so essencially a total 8k heal, 10k if you got triple use and works perfectly with condi removal on heal and the now kinda weaker Sword/x + Scepter/Sword immortality build because you only take small hits (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAsa7cl4zionSTjGZ9IiJF9GFeSB05clegb3msB-TwAA2CqIMSZkzIjRSjsGNKYVw+j5HA – any of its trait variations for your playstyle).
Corrupt boon too cannot hit while cced because it actually has a projectile trejectory (so unless you just got stunned no hit from CB).
3s of stabilty might be useless in pve, but to stop a warrior knockdown, chain ranger daze or necro fear its enough, its a good mantra, but kitten y since there is the cooldown on the actual use between stacks.
Final note on the general mesmer thing, they dont slot mantras because they are held into other roles that they do even better, not that mantras are unviable (hell you can be a better healer than a ele with mantra spam since you also daze the enemy and provide quite strong secondary damage with phantasam bleeds/confusion.

Learn to dodge trough giant red circle = strongest mark and one of the 3 condi removals necro have are gone (yes marks pop even if you dodge trough them.
Also it and Mark of Blood are the 2 marks with specific icons (serpent fangs and giant skull respectively).

Not to mention if the one of 3 viable (out of 5 usable, lich and plague signet being the 2 ok you could use them) condi removals (no, nor spiteful or shrouded removal aint because of the slots they would fill) the necro has get removed, you would need to rebuff necro condi cleansing.

To quote a smart mesmer: We aint op, just better designed (letting them dance of the finde border between).

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

There is no ‘l2p’ counter for being OP. I tell alot of players that complain about my Necro “Yeah, I know. Sorry about it” then do my best to give them a counter build to mine. I’m forced to use Necro myself against other Necromancers in tournaments.

Necro as a whole isnt really op, damage itself is (kinda same as with current warriors excpet theirs is all thrown in the burst baskets that are easy to dodge), but either way Lol funny i posted the same thing on reddit (best counters to necros are the same old thing with cc and other necros themself since we just dont have sustained ways to react to pressure)

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I don’t know if this is sarcasm or not. We had alot of those.

Mostly because its a difference between bandwagon jumpers and the people that actually bothered to play necros a bit more and know how squishy we still are and that yes the amount of condi pressure we can drop is on same levels as a mesmers (that despite that have other roles they are held into) and actually stronger than a engies. The amount of cynical hate and snark made most necros kinda able to look more from other sides of the box we got thrown into.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Andele.1306:

Thedenofsin.7340:

- improve heal scaling of all abilities in Blood Magic

Only thing from your list that would help.

Please offer suggestions or constructive criticism in the future, rather than just criticisms. Thanks.

Ok to return to the problem that other classes had with us in beta, we could not only swap between 2 life bars but also make sure their main burst gets reduced by part to more life force, part of it actually hitting us and the biggest part of the hit being absorbed into the void/not actually damaging us. So A strong body (out of DS high damage reduction) and a strong mind (In ds cc immunity) allowed us to be true hp swap tanks (one bar falls other fills), but we also had close to the current amount of damage (even if more was power than condi unlike now)/pressure we could drop onto a person making us imba, if you were to just focus on making life regenerate when forcing us more into ds, it would return us to the same state, but ever weaker to cc.
For the necro to become a profession that works in solitude (like every other/mesmer clones and ranger pets dont count no matter what they do with them at night) we need a self efficient way of forcing the enemy to either punish himself for attacking or make every point of the current system count more.

A good example people like to use was healing in WoW; Factors were:
Heal count
Heal amount
Healer mana
Healing reduction
Damage reduction
Damage intake
Cooldowns

Now if you take the heal count or heal amount, but have the same mana efficiency as before, all you are doing is resulting in a heal reduction damage intake increase; for short a infinite loop of number swaps that wont change anything in actual play/counterplay, but in a ideal world, the 3 points that would change would be Damage Reduction, Cooldowns and Healer mana, because the strength of resources you can spend efficiently in a time frame changes situation way more than the sheer amount of resources that exist (for in game example, kinda reason why the S/D thief with mass initiative regeneration works as well as it does compared to a simple damage beefing heartseeker spam).

Thedenofsin.7340:

- improve heal scaling of all abilities in Blood Magic

Only thing from your list that would help.

LastDay.3524:

Necros have great Condition removal. Probably the best.
This makes it very hard to estimate how hard it is for other Professions to get rid of them until you’ve played multiple Professions.

Many Necro builds get Condition removal just by running a good build.
Consume Conditions is the best healing skill for many builds.
Off-hand Dagger and the Staff are great.
All three are found in most Condition and Hybrid builds because they just rock!

One sad note, not a single one works while cced what you were going at with the line i just cut before, unlike on most other professions and 2 are based on the enemy actually getting hit or the transfer wiffs (3 if you count P signet, that thank god since patch actually is a true stun break not half of one like mesmer blinks it it doesnt hit).

Ele and Guardian are true kings of not only condition removal, but on a reliable aoe basis (mesmer and engie have options for self sustain, but unlike ele and guardians they actually lose a lot of benefitial utility and damage traits).
We are pretty lacking in that departement, but on the other hand whe do have a giant freaking spider in our back yard that we have been feeding this whole time to send on that annoying fly, its called Plague Blast (aka UW Life Blast), if we could just slot that (*cough make it a secondary effect of Reapers might for land – hint hint wink wink nudge nudge), we would actually be able to troll around with conditions as their true masters…. its funny how “the condition manipulators” and currently highest condi pressure profession gets countered by their own strength.

Bombsaway.7198:

Compared to my ranger, necromancer is OP. Then again, compared to my ranger. . . .

Compared to your ranged every guardian is a sissy *seriously just return to signet BM troll cleric, but swap shortbow for longbow, nothing can down you*, and thats kinda what necros need, not more pressure.

On the topic of terror, torment, burning and bleeds.
First off Terror base damage needs a 13% buff, but the +50% while other condis on it needs to go, yes nemesis might disagree, but it seriously turns the damage too if combined with the entire fear build (what makes terror as itself sadly too strong, being ok on most other builds). Second On hit effects like Dhuum and Withering need to have target cds, not internal on character (you know like ele swap effects and on target procs), third torment should actually be in place of Weakness on withering, since its still post weakness buffs not worth taking on any build except the wonky half hybrid half zerker axe/focus & staff 0/30/10/0/30 build...

Petty sure the strongest spam boons (protection – down to 25%/10%, aegis*blocking in general* – only blocks damage not actual skill effects, vigor – down to 75%, Might – 25 at 80) will be nerfed in some time soon, so no worries.

TheAgedGnome.7520:

No.

If anything, either torch or mace.

Torch- meh ok could be
Mace- not in 1000 years…

Swords and offhand axe on the other hand.

Off topic:
Did you see Poplolita.2638s screenshot? Flesh golem is called Chair golem… i kinda wanna that to be a thing.

People are just stupid and like big numbers thinking necros cannot do that (nemesis and co proving them wrong multiple times but strife kitten ed in peoples heads that 4charrior 1mesmer is optimal for everything so they follow like sheep); only a perma backstab thief can do more dps than any class in full zerker setups (all doing close to same), but they kinda die when looked at and require a boss that can be hit from behind.
*tldr – necros are just as good in dungeons as every other profession people just whine/kick necros (and some engies) out of the party about it because they are idiots.

If you are going necro for dungeons (not harcore farms or exploit runs), by how well people/pugs tend to pick you up are ususally: Cleric(apoth if you gonna be secondary condi)>Soldier(Carrion if you still wanna be the boss pull but wanna use scepter to hybridize damage, Knight if you like big numbers – it does the same overall as soldier but with less hp)>Rampager(Rabid if you wanna double dip with undead runes and aint sure about going glass hybrid/condi)>rest (never saw valk, magi or giver necro, but valk could be zerker like now with DS focus and 30 SR).

HiSaZuL.2843:

Dhuum? Seriously? Of all the things they could have put there they chose that?
You put an ability from the god Grenth replaced? Waged war on? Sealed? What ever they smoke there must be really and I mean REALLY GOOD. Dhuum is mortal enemy of the first Tyria born god – Grenth. As a god, he is attributed to the judgment of the dead, vengeance, and destruction alongside darkness, ice, and death. Hows even fire fit in?
Not to mention the war between those is still ongoing. Yeah Grenth blew up Dhuums tower in Underworld and all that but it never ended and Dhuum woke up several times. So again in what kind of bizzare scenario priests of the Grenth would use ability from the god that directly opposes him?!

Its like bad hollywood movies here.

I kinda stated this multiple times, it makes more sense that the current necros are powered by Dhuums magic (that is getting stronger each time he breaks out and we humans dont stop him) and as far as we know he might actually not even be sealed anymore, the reapers themself stated in GW that they aint strong enough to reseal him and at least two of them is lingering on tyria (orr and shiverpeaks).
Since despite being a cruel/sadistic/egoistic/apathetic god, he is still a human god and even if Grenth carries the title god of Death, he is just in charge of the cold and judgement of souls (as every statue in GW likes to remind you). Even our DS skills (2 and 4) are direct ties to his attacks (blink that weakens the enemy and aoe life removal).
Not that Grenth is bad or anything, he is awesome, but Dhuum got plain more interesting stuff to offer (not to mention that he hates minions just as most of us and 2 scrolls suggest Dhuum might be Grenths daddy).
It would be cool to see Necros be able to chose between 2 sets of playstyle (defensive and offensive) thus chose a god to fit it based on how stuff went in UW (dhuum and grenth respectively).

Druitt.7629:

Sounds like roleplaying is important to you. Great. I take the flavor of the profession as what it is, and Necro is the most interesting profession in the game, in my opinion. Sorry that the drawings you put up on your wall when you read about Necros doesn’t match what Necros are.

RP=/= Lore freak, im a lore freak (and love to speculate stuff like Dhuum graped Dwayna for Grenth, Arach being killed the last time the EDs awoke and that the older gods blocked them from the mists, etc based on hints in game), but dont rp, same thing is probably with His. And yeah by lore fire aint something necros really got, well we could boil blood but not in the burning way.

Lololol best troll thread on forums, next things gonna be said is buff engie condis and mesmer shatters.
Seriously necros are the most squishy cc hurt profession, just dunk him and kick their kitten at the start of the match (dont let them build LF) and you ruined the player for then next 3 min.

Just to note since DS scales of the weapon not its increases Staff DS still does more than any other weapon we got (and another reason why it should be staple in each build).

We got more solo power (not really needed, terror and minions already cover that), balls deep terror necros got buffs (again pretty strange but whatever), hybrids stayed the same (loss of either terror or burning, doesnt matter damage same as before), tanks got buffed if they are on second fight (s-armor, etc), but total possible LF generation changed (soul marks sharing now slot with good stuff), but noone of peeling problems got fixed, DS 5 is dodged 99% of the time at the end cast because of giant screaming circle of doom, its not instant so in the cases where its needed (cced-dogpiled into haggis) you cannot cast it, condition pressure is still strong vs a necro.
Right now we got the damage of beta necros but dont have the solutions/tank power so the damage is useless since you are gonna get focused in pvp either way and for pve… meh nothing really changed except that knights got dropped for valkyre gear.

Bryker.5719:

Andele.1306:

Nothing that was broken in design got fixed, we just got more builds to kitten with with the plethora we already had, and as said before some minion masters might have squeed a bit.

Broken in design? Dagger is not meant to have cleave, we have quite a large assortment of AoE abilities to make up for it. Don’t cast life siphon if you don’t have a target (shocking I know). OH dagger #4 works how it is supposed to, it’s a multi-target spell that transfers one condi per hit on each bounce with three bounces. Staff projectile finish is in line with all other projectile finishers. Scepter #3 is fine how it is and making a PBAoE would make it useless using scepter at max range or insanely op for LF generation if given a large radius. Making DS#1 full damage at all ranges and %Lf would just be ridiculous with the new 1200 range. Making DS#5 instant would give it almost no counterplay. Face it, we got a large buff and it still wasn’t enough for you.

You know all skills used to be hit detection/aoes and dodge wasnt invul frames but just fast displacement… right?

Ashanor.5319:

Warriors got their “sejuani treatment” (character in lol to who they nerfed a lot of theoretical damage, but allowed it to actualy deal it, resulting in being broken as hell till nerf)

What? lol

You cannot cc lock a warrior anymore if he uses phys skills/stances, for short he doesnt need a peeler to be efficient, techncally warrior skills overall got their max potential damage reduced over the last few balance patches (hammer burst and shout range got smaller, quickness hit them strongest for damage output, axe chain change is technically a pvp nerf, etc). Same way a character in LoL got 2 nerfs, rework, 2 nerfs again, thing is the rework allowed her to deal almost all the damage she couldnt do before, same with warriors.

LumAnth.5124:

You think Mesmer is anets fave ? LOL. Just take a gander at the huge long list of nerfs they just got. The only one who was nerfed harder then Mesmer was the Ranger.

Please stop your baseless argument and accept the buffs you just got.

Kuunavang from gw1 Factions, “Never reject a gift from someone that can swallow ou whole”

You know every mesmer build was buffed by making phantasams worth the cast and not dying to a random Well of Corruption or Putrid mark a necro drops, right? Only nerf to them that happened was to immortal mesmers since flurry aint invul anymore.
As for ranges they got buffs across the board for every non meta build there is, the shortbow range maybe hurt a bit but it was never a siege weapon to begin with… And no dont you dare talk about pet attack changes since they buffed everything on them last patch and gave a bigger leash range (as in more annoying from afar).

Also brick joke from shiro, cyanide pill.

Bryker.5719:

We just got a massive buff…and you still want more? At this point just leave the class and play something else because it is CLEARLY not what you want and it will never be. As one or two others in this post pointed out you just want to be kittenly OP. I always try to be nice and helpful on the rare occasions I post but this is one of the few things that I can’t stand. Whining about serious buffs not being enough and wanting outrageous abilities that would make us god mode.

Nothing that was broken in design got fixed, we just got more builds to kitten with with the plethora we already had, and as said before some minion masters might have squeed a bit.

Ascii.9726:

Dagger 2: What do you mean by ‘cant cast without a target’, are you expecting to randomly be able to press 2 and heal for its amount? its called life siphon, thats like saying you should gain health from Vampiric by randomly swinging your weapon.

Staff 1: Every projectile in the game lists a 20% chance, im not sure why ours should be any different.

DS-5: If it was instant cast (and not the 0.25s it is atm) there would be no way to prevent it being cast.

Vengeful Marks: Guaranteed access to Confusion? don’t think so. The lore experts would eat devs for breakfast.

Strength of the Undeath: Firstly having -50% condition duration or -50% damage taken would simply be game breaking (as you could hit -115% condition duration or -95% damage taken) and im not sure why you would want it to scale with LF missing surly that would promote spamming DS just for the passives.

Although i personally think its fine as it is, your suggestion should of been 0.5% per 10% LF you have.

No for life siphon i mean enemy thief or mesmer are there targeted, i start the cast, they stealth/blink out of LOS it goes on cooldown before the animation even went off, its mostly a preference thing, but if interrupting such a channel during start puts it on a 4 second cooldown, shouldnt enemy ports/other random crap we cannot actually influence during the time at least do that if not just make the skill not activate?

Staff is still one of the slowest weapons and our only non minion projectile finisher, i think we deserve to get the old version back.

DS5 – thats the point of the skill…

Marks – Spiteful spirit, barbs, soul barbs, soul bind and mark of pain spit on you for not knowing lore.

Last one is just because im sick of every other profession getting free “kitten kitten ” you cannot damage/hit/control me in their trait lines or weapons and no as said in it, it wouldnt be stacking (like movement speed increases).

Have same problems we used to, only downed hp fixed (but i think that they managed to break ds since i lose way more life force pre hit from holos than i used to since “Champion risen space pirate ninjas for the future with sharks of jormag patch” and when downscaled (like in the bandit place near the dam in queensdale for chest) ds seems way more squishy; Axe is actually a good starting weapon and terror runners got a buff in damage/nerf in commitment (no more every necro can pick up terror for his build) and depending on how you look at it minions might be good (and i mean good good not meh good like before)

TheStarflyer.9641:

We are far from op, especially considering every class in the game other than warrior and ranger got buffed as well.

You know warriors got the strongest buffs this patch right (they can go solo now in pvp/lost the peeler requirement just with stance and phys changes)? Only true nerfs that happened were to immortal build mesmers and cantrip eles… and everyone saw it comming, just not in such a big pile.

RashanDale.3609:

Strength of Undeath – Take 5% less damage and pre 10% Life force missing, Condition duration applied to you is 5% less pre 10% life force active

Not sure if i understand that:
without any life force, necs take 50% less damage and with full life force, necs have 50% decreased condition duration?

Vampiric – base healing and damage = 5+(0.5*current level+If Power>HPower 0.01power; If HPower>Power 0.01healing)

that description is almost as cryptic as Anet’s current vampiric-description. what??

edit: nvm, understand it now. i’ve misread the “if” as “LF”

Vengeful marks – Death 20 major – apply 5 stacks of confusion on foes that dodge trough marks

DO WANT!!

DS:
[…]
5 – instant cast, moved to slot 4
Removed gap between 123 and 45

again: what??

Thieves got twice as annoying (except the perma stealths who stayed just as annoying) with additional 3 evades and even more porting

where did thieves get another 3 evades??

Random banter, just wanna let steam out.

Yep, if you are on 0 LF you take 50% less damage (doesnt stack with protection), if maxed out duration of conditions applied onto you is 50% less.

For short 45 hp pre hit + 1% of power or healing power depending on whats higher (increasing both damage and healing form it)

Our new Morgana ulti would be better on slot 4 of DS and you know how there is a gap between main hand and offhand weapon skills? Well there is one between DS despite it not being two weapons… technically its not even a weapon since it takes over the stats of your current setup, just kinda ui annoyance.
Cooldown and initiative cost reductions… (Death blossoms and their roll), for short with a initiative regen setup that jumper uses you can make DD theif condis viable as annoyance tanks (spam 3 bleeds pre evade and dodge, 10 bleeds pre caltrop drop, only 1 out of 7 seconds not in a invul frame).

Some notes:
True siphons are always shadow damage (armor ignoring), all skills that used to be siphons, got changed but retained the quality of one work with bloodthirst, Vampiric makes Signet of Locust damage portion Siphon hp too and Bloodthirst essencially doubles the worth healing power on Locust.

Iceflame.5024:

We definitely had some improvements in the offensive line and might feel OP in some builds now, but I still kept getting the feeling of being helpless yesterday when 2 people purposely focused and chain CCed me, or 1 thief just trained me with a chain CC as well. It might sound like typical QQ but this is the feeling I got after playing for some time yesterday. Would’ve probably been better if changes included stuff that the community mentioned lots of times and go from there.

You forgot, that now with warrior changes we are the only profession that actually has to have a peeler to be viable (just the stomp and stance changes let charriors do whatever without babysitting).
So the Patch that necros should like is… well the least benefitial to necros… (i know cantrip eles and immoral build mesmers might cry a bit but they were actually too strong for investment they gave so i still hold to my line).

Lily.1935:

I’m not happy about it. Even ignoring the Dhuumfire(Which I’m still against) this didn’t fix any of our problems in PvE.

Stop, Dhuumfire is a awesome name (the effect really doesnt matter, you know what they say about gameplay and story)
But its not pve that really matters, we are still the same badasses that can solo most dungeons without direct exploits with how DS works on jumps and our aoe, problem is we still get dogpiled into haggis in pvp, unlike warriors who can now go without and peeler/special protection.

Yes we got some buffs, but they are worthless since we still got suck with the problem necros had since nerfhammer in beta.
Warriors got their “sejuani treatment” (character in lol to who they nerfed a lot of theoretical damage, but allowed it to actualy deal it, resulting in being broken as hell till nerf), Thieves got twice as annoying (except the perma stealths who stayed just as annoying) with additional 3 evades and even more porting, Shatter (daze) Mesmers shattered the line between good design and plain obvious favourite of devs, Guardian, well ok you cannot do much except say just as much boon whoring as before and quality of life, Engie, well again same as guardian treatment, more quality of life and a tad stronger condi builds, Ele – ok expected cantrip nerf and opening up more builds so maybe they got it worse than use but idk, really have to ask some guys that know ele in a non trolly glass cannon build.

Either way list of things i want to see:
Dagger:
1 – Cleave in 130 of hit location (current attack range), attack range increased to 300
2 – Life siphon cannot be cast without a target, unblockable
3 – Cast time reduced to 1/2
4 – Fixed kitten projectile so that it doesnt float up-down and get stuck on pebbles, full fix to 3 condi transfer
5 – aftercast reduced

Staff:
1 – 100% projectile finisher
2-5 – default size increased by 33%

Axe:
1-2 – increased cone of cast to 180 (so that you can hit stuff thats directly left/right of you)

Scepter:
3 – turned into pbaoe

Focus
5 – reduced cast time to 1 second

DS:
1 – flat damage (same as current close ranged) or underwater version on land
5 – instant cast, moved to slot 4
Removed gap between 123 and 45

Traits:
Reapers Might – Might and Vuln on Life Blast
Spiteful Removal – Transfer 3 conditions on getting hit by crit, 15 second cooldown
Dhuumfire – Apply 3 seconds of burning on chill (or fear), 5 second cooldown pre unique enemy, cooldown doesnt apply to mobs and minions
Terror – Swapped with furious Demise
Reanimator – Mixed with PotH
Protection of the Horde – Swapped with Reapers Protection
Vengeful marks – Death 20 major – apply 5 stacks of confusion on foes that dodge trough marks
Fetid Consumption – fused with Ncorruption
Aura of the Vampire – Blood 30 major – Siphoning heals up to 5 nearby allies (counts as healing for them and posion works on it
Vampiric – base healing and damage = 5+(0.5*current level+If Power>HPower 0.01power; If HPower>Power 0.01healing)
Foot in the Grave – swapped with Strength of Undeath
Strength of Undeath – Take 5% less damage and pre 10% Life force missing, Condition duration applied to you is 5% less pre 10% life force active

Btw, something seems to be kittened up with DS life force damage taken and degen on lower levels, someone check our Downed state they might have fixed it but kittened up DS.

Doom = ok
Life blast – please just make the damage static and piercing by default… or just turn it into Plague Blast (underwater DS1)

Ok so recap: More viable builds, stronger fear builds, melee buff, they kinda killed our only ranged power source, they kinda killed double LF spam in DS, but let lf generation via effects and we got a better siphon… so essencially nothing happened except DS5.
Nyeh ok

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Bhawb.7408:

Do people care enough about underwater to care?

I do, I love underwater combakittens the one area of the game where we are unquestionably more powerful than the majority of the classes, and pretty soon if they truly do nerf the perma-evade underwater thief, then we might just be at the top.

Evade spam thief is useless underwater since he does no damage (its like they revamped our Necrotic grasp into a missile that causes big bubbles), only things truly op underwater are mesmers (since clones underwater are bugged and take full effect on AA) and rangers (again still bugged “post fix”) that get 1.8x the healing as on land.
Kinda maybe engie if they get double heal but that really doesnt matter.
What is epic are the underwater legendary weapons… sadly as said they are underwater (want kraitkin as staff).

Greater marks off:
PvE – Playing like a real man
WvWvW – Hope you like defending keeps since thats your only useful place like that
PvP – bwahahahahahahahahahahaha, didnt know league revive/clarity trolls played GW2 (not thakittens that bad, but you are seriously crippling yourself with the amount of dodge pops that happen).

Greater marks on:
PvE – Do you need a diaper with those training wheels?
WvWvW – FARM ALL THE BADGES!
PvP – Gratz you made your best weapon viable.

striker.3704:

All of the gods actually exist in the game. All the races know the human gods exist, however, they don’t all acknowledge them as being the masters of the world. (hell, you interact with [spoiler] a reaper of grenth in story mode[/spoiler]

For example: The charr mention how melandru morphed the land before them. That doesn’t mean they worship her though.

On top of all of this, there’s a sword named after dhuum.

Not only that but Dhuum wasnt really a nice guy, all races know humans helped/were helping to lock him up every few years and is kinda the reason why friendly neighbourhood rapper Shady B is up (and other beasts close to weak spots/rifts to the mists), turning newbies into fanboys (instakill bling drop) and just annoying the regulars (yay a wasp hit me for more damage!).

Aenia Shadowforce.9148:

Guys… you made me think. What about making Chill deal dmg? Like this trat that make fear deal (0,35 condition dmg). While I think this trait is quite weak (there are…. 3 skills that necro can use that cause fear, and each of them, even trated would couse 1 ping of dmg). Necromancer already have wide acces to chill, making it deal dmg would combine nicely with Chilling Darkness trat for example….
Chill dealing 0,3 condition dmg…?

Would be kinda way too strong, we can apply perma 3 seconds of chill with basic Chillblains, Dark Path, Hydro sigil (and 40% cond dur) rotation and it is one of the strongest ways to control/cripple enemy burst uptime. Plague form would plain become broken, cannot hit, 66% slower movement, recharge times took a holiday, 33% less healing and around half of the persons cond damage delt pre second…

Lily.1935:

Andele.1306:

Its not necro vs ele/schools depend on what you do.

Preservation: Fast Casting, Inspiration, Soul Reaping, Energy Storage
Aggression: Blood, Air, Earth
Denial: Illusion, Curses, Water
Destruction: Domination, Death, Fire

You have that a bit wrong. This doesn’t account for the monk in GW1 or the Guardian in GW2 who are both rather exclusively Preservation. Breaking these down into categories like that fails to understand exactly what these schools mean.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Magic

Both monks and guardian magic is based on their faith and strength of their spirit, so just like the “blood/life” magic used by asura, mursaat, seers and probably the strength ego thing of the jotun, its not really tied to the mits themself as much to what they believe in (e.g. charr shammys getting power from titans).
Necromancers (and for that matter ritualists) use a combination of both (casters least restricted by bloodstones), Mesmers having kinda a physical anchor (being the perception/brain of their targets) and Eles are tied pre power that controls the element in the mists.

Arvid.3829:

Lily.1935:

Dhuum came from a time before the magic was gifted to the sentient races of Tyria.

Jotun, Mursaat, Forgotten, Dwarves and Seers all predate ‘magic was gifted to the sentient races of Tyria’. They all wield(ed) pretty powerful magic and hardly seemed to have an issue doing so.

Lily.1935:

He isn’t restricted by the bloodstones.

And what do the bloodstones restrict, exactly? They inhibit the use of magic to it’s full extend and prevent any one individual from wielding all forms of magic. That doesn’t exactly mean that no one can use multiple forms (which would be supported by the whole secondary profession thing in GW1). Hell, the 4 schools of magic are Preservation, Aggression, Denial and Destruction, and it’s still completely unknown which profession falls under what. Hence you can hardly exclude that fire magic and necromancy might actually be part of the same school…

Lily.1935:

So your argument is invalid.

I’m afraid you failed to see the full argument: a figure that shows some ties to Necromancers has used fire related attacks in the past. This could very well have inspired an actual Necromancer to develop something similar; given that we can not exclude that this might very well be within their natural scope of potential, see above. I fail to see how this is invalid?

Jotun didnt exactly have magic per-se, they were just very advanced, seers and mursaat aint from tyria (just like humans) and used the same tech as asura golemancy (stealing magic from existing sources instead of channeling it from the mists). Dwarves didnt have magic till human times, just good brew, big beard, strong belly and firsts, the one thing they did get is a gift of their “god/great dwarf” via ritual that can be tied to Balthazar and/or Menzies since both of them use offerings of humanity/life/sainity for power (balthazars rage, balthazar idols and everyone in fissure of woe being what happens to you if they empower you). The written “world-builder” lore is usually right, but each time it clashed with in game stuff, they were wrong.

Its not necro vs ele/schools depend on what you do.

Preservation: Fast Casting, Inspiration, Soul Reaping, Energy Storage
Aggression: Blood, Air, Earth
Denial: Illusion, Curses, Water
Destruction: Domination, Death, Fire

Also no Bloodstones in general locked off any sort of strong connection that brings the mists to tyria (thats why weakpoints like temple/behemoth spawn, TPK, Rift connection ususally get a lot more attention from baddies than places with bloodstone shards active) thus preventing any form of magic that isnt corrupt/already in a stable form; think of the bloodstones like a heatsink, preventing electricity from emitting heat with the light.

TyPin.9860:

It is. The thing is, I saw weeks ago a mesmer build threat in the mesmer forums. A guy made an insane interuption build. Dealing some dmg, but mainly itnerupting, with every interupt the mesmer got. Hard to pull of, but this is what mesmers did in GW1. It will get even “worse” with time, while more mesmer realize the potential on interupts and stuns. I like the way this is heading.

However, being a necromancer in this position is the worst that could happen. I play both professions, so I know what to expect, and sometimes running is the best defense one has. But maybe, the whole expecrience is biased due to not remotly expecting that. If you know, how and what he did, maybe you will be able to prevent some of the CC through fear and daze of your own…

Note to beta, Mesmer+Warrior or Ranger+Warrior, permacced while eating 100b, even a guardian (who had 66% instead of 33% stability uptime with boon duration) couldnt counter that.
Kinda was simmilar to this: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAraWl4zionRTrGZ9IxJFJ35oe09s/9SKi9tB-TsAAyCtIkSJlTKjUSpsSNKY9x8DA but with more dazes