Guild Wars 2

flow.6043:

Andele.1306:

For protection of the horde, that kinda goes hand in hand with reanimator since it would never be left there if reanimator would go away.

That’s like saying: We only have Furious Demise because of Barbed Precision.
"Just because of Reanimator" is a weak excuse. Sometimes you get +20 toughness... this can’t be the sole reason for the existence of a master trait.

Andele.1306:

Btw since with reanimator you used to have around 5 or more rats with you PotH was kinda ok.

Especially then Reanimator would have been a million times better than PotH: 5 rats for 50% lf (+5 death novas, if traited) vs 100 toughness (Pathetic!)
If one minion gave 100 toughness then it would be "kinda ok" (maybe this could be an improved PotH as an optional major trait...)

Actually yes, furious is there because of Barbed... Just as Death into Life works into Parasitic and Full of Life with Blood to Power; that is exactly the point that is kinda wrong with trait lines, a-net tried to tie them to builds instead of giving them generally good minior traits *cough like soul reaping has* Also 100 is a nice stats boost and still better than 1 or 5 ugly little rodents.

Cristobal.8640:

You are always the first to go down playing as necro no matter what build you bring?

Gotta get better my friend.

Necro is actually the most durable class, moreso than bunker guardians and warriors if you wikitten so.

(^ That is one problem with censorship, apart from the sheer immorality of it, it “fixes” stuff that isn’t even “swearing” and makes stuff illegible)

Now tell me how youll regen to full without being in clerics+Full duration WoB, but not just every 30 seconds, i mean every 15 seconds, or say how you can hold protection and retaliation up 24/7? No, necros are about as durable as mesmers without sword mh (but can technically tank the most over a long time fight).

As i said before, old traits (and removing the 50% cd off DS to actually balance the traits without it kitten in making possible op builds), BTW DS entry used to be a Stun Break (exit wasnt).

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Adept: Parasitic Bond. I have seriously never seen this thing matter in any way. If they’re dead, I’ve already won and healing is useless. If I’m losing, then they’re not dying and this doesn’t come into play. The heal is for so little that even in massive zerg battles and temple events it rarely matters. I thought this just gave Life Force for the longest time.

Master: Deathly Invigoration. The amount this heals for is so low that it isn’t noticeable. 260 points every 10 seconds makes it far inferior to… pretty much everything, really. I think this trait wins the award for worst healing trait ever, since parasitic bond has at least some use when fighting endless hordes of enemies: not wasting 2 seconds on a healing skill.

Adept: Gluttony. Life force generation works in such paltry amounts that a 10% increase doesn’t do anything for a player’s offense or survivability. Either they have a build that generates life force, or they do not. This trait will not tip the scale in any direction, and the effect even in long term is negligible. When, in any fight, has any necromancer ever thought “Gee, I wish I had 10% more life force, because then I could win” and not already been at maximum? Never.

These guys save my kitten from time to time; invigoration is 600 aoe (so up to 1300 aoe heal pre 10 seconds) and balanced around the 50% shorter DS cd (like most on DS traits), Bond might be useless/needs different effect in pvp, but its nice on zerg fests in pve and really helpful in AC, TA, CM and CoF, as for Gluttony, it adds up, i just wikitten plain increased each LF gain by 1% since its useless on some minior LF generation from skills (but kinda strong with spiteful marks and life transfer since it gives the bonus pre hit rounding them up).

flow.6043:

Toughness scales horribly?

I’d argue that Protection of the Horde is an even worse trait than Reanimator. People just complain about the jagged horror more often because most of them just take 10 points in Death Magic for Greater Marks.
But tbh even as a Minion Master I’d rather have the occasional +10% life force from the little rat than 120 toughness.
Most other builds which utilize that trait line maybe have the golem and sometimes the jagged horror. So in that case it’s a Master trait that gives you 20 toughness at best. Wow… absolutely pathetic!
How did this become a minor master trait when you have something like Last Gasp, Furious Demise or even Vampiric in the other lines?

Toughness actually does scale horribly, plague form gives the same reduction as protection does and you get diminishing returns (technically its same benefit/linear scailing, but the overall gain is lower) the more you stack in comparison to how crit and crit damage influence damage.
For protection of the horde, that kinda goes hand in hand with reanimator since it would never be left there if reanimator would go away.
Btw since with reanimator you used to have around 5 or more rats with you PotH was kinda ok.

frans.8092:

Andele.1306:

Both dwarves and dredge were isolate from all other species for hundreds of years *only getting seeing some travelers from time to time,

During – and before – the time of GW1 the Deldrimor Dwarves were allied with Ascalon and what we see from them doesn’t appear ‘isolated’ at all. The dredge in the Shiverspeaks were enslaved by the Stone Summit, not quite isolated. Not sure how much dealings these dredge had with others, or their cousins in Cantha. Either way, the Tyrian dredge had intimate knowledge of the dwarves in the Shiverspeaks, and presumably their technology.

Check again, Jalis himself said when you come with Rurik to them that they are the first actual human dwarf interaction that isnt ore trade/causal greeting cough raid on the roads of the shiverpeaks (thus also seeing a chance to forge a alliance/exploit the humans to kick the Deldrimor dwares butts). The Canthan dredge got exterminated/vanquished (by us and our Kurzick friends/rivals if you remember it right) and for the tyrian dredge not to be isolated is like saying that the jews in ancient egypt werent isolated, yes ok they did share the same geographical space but except for some harsh whipping they were still isolated and they still didnt stagnate in terms of evolution, in fact their whole sonic engine trick they are using for everything is far away from dwarwen brewing machines.

Luke.4562:

NECROMANCER =/= DEATHKNIGHT

Exorcise your fantasy ideas luggage from World of Moneycraft.

I agree Anet failed hard giving an identity to Necromancer, but this doesn’t mean it has to be insulted more pairing it to the Death Knight kitten .

Stop this heresy about 2 handed swords and axes!

True about two-handed weapons, but one-handed light, be it martial, simple or exotic (dagger, throwing axe, mace, sickle, morningstar, swords) weapons are part of the necromancers arsenal, including the basic proficiency clause of using two handed weapons without a base value with x2 or higher multipliers (quarterstaff, scythe, spear, panseur, lance, anything else on a needlessly large rod).
Also (frost) DKs are cool and the fact that you can look like one with some work (since despite the classifications, most of the non stripper light armors look more full plate than some of the heavy armors).

AirWick.1769:

Softspoken.2410:

The wiki just copies the tooltip verbatim, and the tooltip is misleading. As someone who uses this trait I can confirm that as long as you’re below 90% health, this trait will trigger every 30 seconds when you get hit.

To my knowledge, all traits that reference health levels behave like this.

Edit: I honestly prefer using Regeneration instead of an additional buff because I feel like adding new buffs and debuffs instead of using existing boons / conditions will just lead to too many icons and prevent clear play / counterplay. As it is Soothing Mist still irks me a bit.

Lead to too many icons…we are Necromancers we don’t have access to a dozen boons and condition icons covering your screen every profession has it. It won’t lead to too many icons for a Necromancers cause we have the least amount to begin with unless your running nothing but signets.

A flat regeneration icon is better then a regeneration boon for us Necros cause not a lot of Necromancers rely on healing power. Regeneration is also a boon so it can be removed. I have also tested the full of life trait in pvp and idk if I am doing something wrong but I still don’t see it activate after 90% hp 30 seconds later on the cool down. Unless your hp rises back to 90% after the 30 second cd then it will activate again. Other then that it will not activate again even if you are below 90% hp after the first activation. Flat regeneration for our current state will benefit us Necromancers more since it cannot be removed and it is always working whenever we are missing hp.

Pretty sure thakittens (just as most of the regen traits) on getting hit under said treshold.

Softspoken.2410:

Andele.1306:

Softspoken.2410:

Doubling your power doubles the damage component of life siphon.

Edit: just like every other weapon skill in the game.

I ment the aa chain, it has a high base damage, but its total power scailing is quite weaker than from most other auto attacks (a lot like with Lichs Deathly Claws), you dont notice it till you do the comparisons of power does between steady weapon and normal weapon damage (not the full damage done just the increase in damage after you add more power to your stats).
And no life siphon is one of the rare skills that has a 1:1 relation to power in total.
Example of a low scailing high base skill is deathly claws (under 0.3 scailing), to a low base of 18 damage but high max scailing from our dear 100 blades warrior channel (over 3.1 – most of it being in the last hit). Its like in LoL Veigar vs LB, sure LB has higher early game damage/good base, but veigar will just be better the more stats (ap in their case power in our) he gets.

Ofc tooltip damage does double since tooltips are derpy and dont say everything (they even think all our enemies are in medium armor, what is kinda true for mobs, but still stupid to do instead of having a option/toggle for full calculation).

Every single weapon skill in the game uses a similar formula to calculate the damage applied, not taking into account criticals.

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / Armor

Given this formula, doubling your power doubles your weapon damage, because every single factor in there is multiplicative. Weapon skills don’t have a base static damage number and then additional amounts added on to that, they have a multiplier coefficient that determines how much of your Power * Weapon strength score you get to use. So while certain weapon skills will scale better than others, doubling your power will double the damage done by any weapon skill.

I do not know if all utility skills follow this same trend: I have heard many times that minions, for example, do not scale with your power and I am inclined to believe it.

Do not bring LoL up again. Just. Don’t.

Please learn to play: Skill Coefficient = ( Tooltip Damage * Target’s Armor ) / ( Weapon Damage * Power )

Rednik.3809:

miriforst.1290:

Its not like dredge are isolationistic or anything. ;P

First, the Dredge are isolationists only in the diplomatic sense, they are not physically isolated from its neighbors. They have constant war with neighbors, and although in this case they show too much enthusiasm and amassed themselves a lot of trouble as a result - but they have also achieved notable success in the development of weapons and equipment.
Second, the part in which they reached the isolation - diplomatic, and cultural - significantly worsens their situation. Now they have a tyrannical government, civil war and big problems at the borders, where they were pushed around from all directions.

Both dwarves and dredge were isolate from all other species for hundreds of years *only getting seeing some travelers from time to time, in total you can say the dredge were isolated for longer than anyone in cantha ever was *cough dragons/celestials/beings of the mists and underworld that talk with the ritualist/assassin harems that the monks have over there* not to mention that they only isolate from other races since the shiro thing (since strangers saved their bums).

Softspoken.2410:

Doubling your power doubles the damage component of life siphon.

Edit: just like every other weapon skill in the game.

I ment the aa chain, it has a high base damage, but its total power scailing is quite weaker than from most other auto attacks (a lot like with Lichs Deathly Claws), you dont notice it till you do the comparisons of power does between steady weapon and normal weapon damage (not the full damage done just the increase in damage after you add more power to your stats).
And no life siphon is one of the rare skills that has a 1:1 relation to power in total.
Example of a low scailing high base skill is deathly claws (under 0.3 scailing to 0.4 when on max weapon ratio hit), to a low base of 18 damage but high max scailing from our dear 100 blades warrior channel (over 3.1 – most of it being in the last hit). Its like in LoL Veigar vs LB, sure LB has higher early game damage/good base, but veigar will just be better the more stats (ap in their case power in our) he gets.
Another such example (this time in necro), but for utility skills would be Signet of the Locust (pretty good level 2 damage, but kitten/close to no change at 80) vs well of suffering (ok for a aoe early on but obviously way worse than what it gets at 80).

Ofc tooltip damage does double since tooltips are derpy and dont say everything (they even think all our enemies are in medium armor, what is kinda true for mobs, but still stupid to do instead of having a option/toggle for full calculation).

CETheLucid.3964:

Kryta is the last major stronghold of humanity on greater Tyria that isn’t ruled by a crazy undead guy or zealously cut off from the rest of the world by Emperor’s degree.

Hey Joko is a cool guy, i knew him once, then his lovers/yandere/boyfriends latest generation tried to kill me (trough she was cute she had like 6 glowing red eyes, a fancy red cap and crystal meth wings around her, also she made me walk on a dead spider the crazy whench), that kinda annoyed me, but way less than that blind stupid thingamajig.

My wishes for dagger are: Dark pact going to a 1/2 cast time (so that well bombing gets less reliant on ally cc/golem kitten charge), Life siphon to lock onto the closest enemy/not be castable without a target (but continue the channel if target goes away) and maybe a bit better actual power scailing (base damage is fine, so it works with critting, but it doesnt even double its damage when your double your power).

Obsidian.1328:

No way. History should not be erased for any reason, even if it means saving a life, or thousands of lives. That’s extremely dangerous territory to tread on Frog. You learn from the past, you don’t try to escape or deny it.

The whole Ascalonian debacle is a failure on ANet’s part to try and rewrite the past, and they shouldn’t have tried to do it in the first place. There are much better ways to introduce a new player race into a game instead of criminalizing an entire culture. They should have written it better if they wanted to do that.

So what you are saying is that the english should have just left the first settlers (current “MERKANS”) to rot in hell and get slaughtered, that the french should have been wiped from the map by kittens and that rome should have deleted all remains of greece… ok nice~

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Grasping Vines is more closely parallelled to the Ranger elite (they have similar mechanics, and Grasping Vines was actually stronger back in Beta). Still strong, but this time actually weaker than the closer skill (though as it’s utility vs. elite, perhaps not a fair comparison).

Hidden Pistol is more similar to Quick Shot (Ranger Shortbow 3) and is by far inferior (twice the casting time, longer recharge, can’t be used on targets behind you, no Swiftness, shorter range)

Hounds of Balthazar is worse than any of the similar elites (Warband Support is on par with Thieves Guild, but has longer recharge). Flesh Golem is permanent and tankier with a great active, Spirit of Nature is tankier and has great abilities (including the active, but not limited to that), and Thieves Guild spam damage, blind, and pulls.

The others, I will agree with you on, I suppose. Become the X is most similar to Juggernaut, but because Juggernaut sucks so badly, the skills by virtue of being decent are way better.

Tornado would be good if the damage radius was at least as large (if not larger) as the knock-back radius. You can still use it to be extremely disruptive.

Since Elixer X is random between Juggernaut and Tornado, it’s not good, but that’s because the other two are not good.

Its only utility vs utility and elite vs elite (since all healing skills are playstyle based), weapon skills are overall more impactful than utility slots so you cannot compare them.
Bola and Wines are both based on the immoblization trick, but Wines has 1 second longer duration at base and twice the duration if the wine isnt killed, its only missing the damage (and even with 100% cond dur wine still has a second over bola).
Hidden pistol is not only a projectile finisher but has the ranged damage advantage so in most cases a ranger would get more benefit from it (not to mention that the vigor part of LR is wasted by 5 trait points) and no it can be cast from behind (will do same rotation move as with shortbow, but unlike shortbow you can interrupt it since the cast time is longer).

Hounds of balth is possibly the most damage a elite can do by itself in game (right under lich with perma 1 spam and guardian book derplz on aoe), its constant aoe burning 2×3k hits (around 2k on bosses), 2x knockdown leap from 600 range and 2 tanky pets, they together have same hp than traited spirit (kittens each from lich form vs 8 on spirit, but are thus weaker to powerful aoe) and deal more damage than warband and thieves guild (that apply 1-2 conditions from time to time and got no utility past tanking), also the stronger skills from spirit are random… what is qutie the problem.
Also flesh golem is only 1 summon and only gets stronger than the hounds (1 of them getting 2 leaps pre 30 seconds total of 4 possible ccs over a 30 second spam instead of 1 linear minion position based charge cc) if fully traited, but true if you can keep him up he is stronger as a long term minion and open pve/bosses with high defiant stacks.

Axe offhand, Dual wielding swords (i wont give up on these 2) and Waraxe! HELL YEAH METAL TIME!

Blaine Tog.8304:

Andele.1306:

Lux was never shunned for low burst nor dps (since she had both), she is/was/will be despite short popularity spike because all her skills are skillshots what wasnt good in the mobility era but is nice now in the age of assassins and was ok in bruiser beatown times. Just as amumu/morg/kennen in aoe spam fests, etc

I’ve played Lux for a long, long time. I can’t tell you how many times I was told not to take her mid because "She’s unreliable and deals no damage." It’s also "a mathematical fact":http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/gentleman-gustaf/23264-ap-ratios-an-overview that she has very low burst and DPS compared to other mages, looking strictly at the numbers.

Andele.1306:

Also ap tryn/ap yi, ad malza, jungle karth/cass, etc are/were never really op, it are just pubstomp/one trick pony builds,

AP Tryndamere only got nerfed when he started wreaking havoc in LCS. Voyboy was one of the first professional AP Trynds but then other professionals started kicking kitten with him as well.

AP Tryndamere’s major problem was that he had absolutely no counterplay, in addition to being absurdly good at splitpushing. The former’s not a major game-wide problem until the meta shifted to pushing, which it did. Then he got some of his counterplay returned.

1. GG himself said thakittens just ability basis (as in brand and Lux are 3 times lower because their passive effects do not count in on the burst) and that no CDR is included in the calculation *aka luxes main stat for spam lazors* and the unreliable part (as in all skillshots) directly means she deals no damage since she can miss it all vs a high mobility team.
2. Ap tyrn was a problem because semi burst comps weren’t viable at the time, thus wrecking everything, also kite power still owns tyn as a whole (take graggy/cho/elise/graves/taric/ryze vs AP tryn and you will dominate because of hard counter, but you will have a really hard time later on since your team will be a wild mix), its the same as saying AD nidalee was a problem (and then boom, ranged adc tops owning nidlz and the true bruisers for 3 months).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It should be noted that Radiation Field is the ONLY racial skill that is superior to the profession skill it most closely mimics, which makes it odd in its own right. Not saying that CPC doesn’t need a buff (Very much it does), just that Radiation Field is an outlier.

I, for one, would like to see the cloud pulse each second (currently it pulses once every 3 seconds, making it pretty worthless) and have something in it that plays up the CORROSIVE part of its name. Damage, boon stripping, blindness, or even vulnerability, I don’t care, but something needs to be there to say “Hey, this is more than just nastier than normal poison”.

Lets see about that for elites:
Hounds of balthazar vs flesh golem/spirit of nature/thieves guild; Charrzooka/Take Root vs Mortarl Become the Insert random animal vs Rampager, Elixir X, Tornado

And now utility:
As said Rad field vs CPC; Grasping Vines vs Throw Bolas and Hidden Pistol vs Lightning Reflexes can also count depending on build

Elvahaduken.3609:

I raided heroics in wow, my guild was server 2nd/1st most of the time

Going off topic here, but unless you show me how you managed to get pre patch cthun or pre fix illidan, that wont be of much help since the only thing that wasnt fixed by healing in wow is the healers mana bar...

Blaine Tog.8304:

Pfft, 9 months is nothing. League of Legends has been around for three and a half years and we’re still discovering and rediscovering new OP builds. There was this one OP build called AP Tryndamere that was made possible in July 2011 and wasn’t fixed until March 2013.

I’m not trying to make the point that the Necro is "sleeper OP." I’m certainly not trying to say the Necro doesn’t need various bug fixes, tweaks, adjustments, and additions; I have to take Reanimator to get Greater Marks just like you. I’m saying simply... stay positive. Don’t despair. Things are rarely as bad as they seem when you focus on the negatives. Another example from LoL: Lux, the Lady of Luminosity, and my favorite champion in the game. She was disregarded by the community and the professional teams for years because her DPS is literally the lowest of any mage in that game, but then the meta shifted and people realized that she could apply her DPS more easily than most (if you can hit your skillshots) and her utility and safety more than make up for her low burst.

GW2 is still in its infancy, as far as the metagame goes. Nine months is barely enough for us to figure out which buttons do what. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if the meta shifted and suddenly everyone’s crying about how Deathshroud is OP (Elementalists in particular are already jealous of the second health bar and high base health) and how Necros need a nerf, even if ANet makes no changes to them between then and now.

Lux was never shunned for low burst nor dps (since she had both), she is/was/will be despite short popularity spike because all her skills are skillshots what wasnt good in the mobility era but is nice now in the age of assassins and was ok in bruiser beatown times. Just as amumu/morg/kennen in aoe spam fests, etc
Also ap tryn/ap yi, ad malza, jungle karth/cass, etc are/were never really op, it are just pubstomp/one trick pony builds, same reason why you dont see veigar in tournaments, its a one trick pony that loses around 9/10 its value if played against correctly or plain countered (like condi cleanse guardian gets derped over by power necro).

And its also not like some stong builds *cough X/D valkyre arcane ele, survival axe/torch & greatsword ranger, hammer charrior physical cc machine, mantra chain heal mesmer* aint known, its just that they dont fit the current meta. Just because mobility is what all the cool kids do in pvp doesnt mean something doesnt work. On the other hand if the design of said thing is broken, it doesnt work *like post stun removal pre rework eve*

Note on the vigor thing, we really shouldnt need any (well unless you count BIP+WoP but everyone knows thats like saying anyone except a ele has a elemental armor skill, yes possible but requires bigger sacs unless build around).
4 things that would make necro facetank mechanics work:
Perma stability (in DS) and retal (out of DS) from early on in their effect not boon form.
Siphon scailing
Passive way to generate LF from getting hit instead of only hitting *looking at you spectral armor*
Skills being a general threat against blocks and evasion (as in no obstructed because of small rocks, LoS only being a issue in cases you cannot actually target the enemy, good zone control) - we kinda have this one but hey game engine derps are game engine derps

My reasonings - vs vigor, necros, aka big tentacle blobs dont run like sissies for cover, we are walking cover!
Ok then why no protection - simple, protection in its current 33% form is quite op (both pve and pvp standards), thank god that condis ignore it or it would require a nerf, but with power creep i can see it getting a issue, it would be, as a-net like to say, playing whack a mole.
Ok then aegis? *kittenslaps* What do you think we are some poofy pillocks that run around in light blue armor, slap drawings of a 5 year old on the ground and shoot swirly lights out of needlessly large rods? WRONG We are cynical kittens that run around in slightly darker blue green armor slap drawings of a 7 year old on the ground and shoot grope hands out of our needlessly large rods!

spoj.9672:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Oh my.
I guess I should have added ‘in pvp’.

Point still stands. Mesmers are one of the strongest classes in pvp and pve and their clone AI is fine.

Ai is fine since they are set on our dear GW1 minion kill everything within range thats bigger than if every chinese person would make a Conga line, pathing still isnt (but that aint such a problem since they are like acne on the forehead of a teen girl, they continually spawn in masses and go away just as fast).

Ralathar.7236:

The point of corruption abilities is a trade-off, or if you are spec’d for it an additional condition you can inflict on an enemy. Considering the field itself is long duration and the self-weakness is short it’s not hard to time your hard hitting power abilities outside of that time. Also, keep in mind you could easily place this before using consume conditions.

In essence you have 2 really good uses for this: Consume conditions = more heal, Plague Signet = more conditions sent to foe. If neither of those are options in your build you can still just try…playing well. This will greatly mitigate the temporary weakness with good timing.

50% chance for glancing blow only applies to direct damage, not condition damage. The only real concern of having weakness on you is endurance regen and lets be honest necro’s have great survivability in nearly any spec when played right.

Last note: If you think weakness is really that bad for you then it’s even worse for the targets you’re giving it to with poison as well in an AOE…right?

Difference is, Poison and Vuln CB and Epi place have little impact on the necro, its there to fuel the power of necro condi control, while chill and weakness have higher impacts and are a priorty for removal (longer cooldowns ending up even longer and less dodge), essencially the only thing other corruptions do is maybe make the enemy have to do less damage to kill you, while weakness actually changes/forces how you should play (wouldnt be that much of a thing if necros got vigor, but i am against it since it actually forces more thoughtful gameplay than spam dodge once every 3-4 seconds).
Also power and “tank” necros (who still get their delicious dose of utility from CB and CPC) got it kinda hard with losing about 1/5th of their damage.

When it would work: Epidemic cooldown increased to 30 and Removed invis projectile effect, cast time turned instant

Couldnt we change cpcs self condi into cripple or blind, weakness kinda wrecks a necro (lowering already bad scailing and/or weak at base damage abilites and less dodge….) id be fine with that, oh and maybe letting use use it underwater (spawning around the target) itll be pretty cool.

Rampager/carrion with 2 rabid pieces is a nice necro combo, problem with it is, for a necro you end up highly glassy, power necros got nice LF generation, Condis can rely on the higher toughness from rabid, hybrids get neither of the defensive advantages. Its a lot like a D/D thief, works ok, dungeons aint such a big pain, just pretty annoying that specialization would let you do more risky fun stuff than stand there spamming 1,2,5 then swap to axe/focus 2,4, swap back to scepter/dagger
Also by going the superior damage route (that you should since hybrid setups are glassy by stat destribution), you miss out on the best necro weapon, staff.

CETheLucid.3964:

Andele.1306:

Charr are all big fluffy tsundere balls for cuddle, ofc you first have to beat them into crying since they would wanna rip your eyes out if you didnt, but still /hug on each of them~

I-It’s not like I like you humans or anything, stupid meat~!

http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/image/winter2013/haganai_01_02.jpg

vinceftw.5086:

Outside of my suggestions I like Revealed and The Initiated. I absolutely hate Cloak and Swagger. Swag is an overly used word, is for little boys that wants to act though imo. It doesn’t fit the thief as well. A thief is a dark, sneaky assassin, not a rapper with 7 golden rings.

kitten please my half naked burly norn woman with fangs and tail is no sneaky tank that gets off on energy regeneration and block chance, she throws shiny daggers in a chain-gold-purple pimp suit and a shortbow to range-slap, Cloak (for all you stabby stabby guys that used to be really annoying in wvwvw) and Swagger (true pimps sharing venoms and boons around like cheap hookers on a mixer) is perfect.

A lot of skills would make sense if you could activate them on targeting a ally, not just necro ones (mesmer bounces, guardian fields, etc), but im not sure that a-net know how to program pure effects without damage components while having hit detection *cough spectral grasp (projectile with effect) vs Doom (invis projectile with small damage)* especially now that Epidemic is a projectile.

So you want mesmers….

Arianna.7642:

If people would actually look up previews and blogs about how the game played during the early phases, and what our skill set, traits and Profession mechanics actually were back then, we fit what Arenanet had in mind for us -perfectly-. We were the epitome of an attrition class that locked players into combat with us.

The issue was that the game evolved from what was once longer, drawn out battles into faster-paced burst combat. In order to make sure Necromancers were not simply “Wait out enemy’s cooldowns, whittle away, have no chance to lose”, Arenanet axed the vast majority of options that made us an attrition based Profession because who wants to play against a Profession that will inevitably win, but take forever to do so?

This would have been perfectly fine if they had actually -allowed us to keep up with the pace of the game’s changes-. But they didn’t. We fell to the wayside, as is apparent by our abundance of absurd issues, our horrible lack of trait synergy, our wretched Weapon sets, our terrible AI, and faulty Profession mechanics. It was even more pronounced after they made the swap from Traits being anything the player desired to being a tier-based system. The build variety for Necromancers were gutted, possibly more so than other Professions.

Edited in: Does anyone else remember when Dodge wasn’t actually an invulnerability, but was… A dodge? That’s another marker in the design phase for us, given that we didn’t rely on dodging to a degree as high as the other Professions.

All of the released versions of dodge had a invul frame (the actual jumpy mid part during that a thief goes invis/throws around cut black stripes of leather that dont nearly look enough like shadows what the art team thinks it looks like), its just that you could still get hit by aoe (what makes sense) and projectiles were 60000 times more kitten
Either way if we continue to dwell on the past, we will never get to dream about the future~ It took 2.7 years for GW to be close to balanced (and no the original wasnt balanced, the expansions just derped up the obvious flaws up quite the notch) for 2-3 months, the least we can do is wait another 9 months for the pvp scene to get going and for a-net to double the amount of people actually working on the game.

Kau.8495:

was actually 9s my bad

The 0 is also a tick.

Zaxares.5419:

Olba.5376:

Oh dear… The Far Shiverpeaks Yakslappers and the Southsun Crabgrabbers sound like pretty good sports teams.

Pfft. I’m a loyal Ascalonian Moapuncher all the way!

What? No Orrian Kraithuggers?

Bas.7406:

Nice work on all those, some of the other names we have seen

Revealed
Cloak and Swagger
Cloak and Splatter

I think you got the winner there on second place.

But for some reason it reminds me of SOMETHING

1. Consume condition (echi blech you kitten mobs and condi players, i just healed off your condis)
2. Green black blob of tentacle grape that can glomp you (DS Dark Path)
3. Marks
4. Spectral Grasp (KRAIT POWAH!)
5. Lich MOTHA FRIGGN BOSS form.

Iceflame.5024:

Yeah, I’m not saying that it’s enough. I’m trying to say that if they make greater marks baseline for staff, it’s a good idea to make soul marks baseline as well while they are at it. The topics I ran through usually only mention greater marks so I’m just suggesting adding soul marks in there too.

As a replacement I could suggest having something like a trait that makes the 1st life blast instant when you enter DS.

I cannot really agree with it since in both other aspects of play (pve and wvwvw) soul marks is borderline op (from 0 to full ds just from your enemies being piled up), like traited mesmer focus. Rather make Feast of corruption be like underwater feast, pbaoe and just giving 5% pre enemy hit (yes it would reduce max potential you could get in 1v1s, but overall massive improvement).

SupahSpankeh.8452:

Good grief guys, test a bit before you QQ.

MH dagger with the Quickening Thirst gives a 25% movement speed increase. You can test this with a friend who has a 25% movement speed debuff, or use soemthing to time how far you can run with QT vs LS.

EDIT: Just tested, still 25% with MH dagger.

Also, I was DD/DF for quite some time and this trait still sucked compared to the alternatives (20pts BM with WH and SW, or SotL).

In that case, Signet of the locust increases your movement speed for over 30% since you get a notable boost from slotting it in over just having quickening.

Pendragon.8735:

We should have a poll and vote out our worst 3 traits, let Anet kick them off the island and make 3 better ones. Better limit to one vote though or I will cheat to get rid of reanimator.

Fusion List:
Signet Power+Signet Mastery – Spite
Spectral Attunement+Spectral Mastery – SR
Fetrid Consumption+Necromantic Corruption – DM

Removal List:
Siphoned Power
Hemophilia
Decaying Swarm

Good idea bad implementation:
Quickening Thirst
Death Shiver
Dark Armor

Traits that should be minior/major
Reanimator (on dodge as bawb said)+Horde -major
Furious Demise (combined with SS effect so that we can get SS as elite crosses fingers) – major
Greater Marks (unblockable implemented into Spiteful Marks) – minior
Terror – minior (damage increased by 20% removed +50% on second condi part)

Oh, its Crab toss? I thought its Crap toss, har har har.

A) Necro was 4th most op class back in the days, as in balanced in comparison *cough ranger shortbow spirit setup with more hp on attack than can be delt because of 66%+ protection uptime, it only turned broken when the first 3 got nerfed down and then perma DS became a thing and when people didnt focus Phylactery *since traits and armor stats didnt work with transforms back in the days... well up to a point in live actually but who cares*
B) I actually like having all marks on Staff, it was way too confusing trying to theorycraft if mark taits were worth it. Also D/P is all stealth setup, Shortbow is the thiefs overall utility weapon.
C) Thing was and still is, old effects/mechanics need to get back in with current numbers (they were too stronk for poor pleb professions with our utility) or old numbers *cough 4k non crit Life blast that degens to 2k with each 10% being 10% damage loss not kitten on 50% LF* with current mechanics.

Bhawb.7408:

Those were changed because not having a Necro on your team and going against a Necro meant you might as well just sit in base and let them win. We had the damage of a zerker warrior that could use 100b while moving, with the defenses of a guardian and ele combined. It was stupidly OP.

On a side note though, bring back some of those skills. At least a few of them are incredibly more interesting than some of the stuff we have now (wtb Jagged Horrors on dodge)

Fixed thief to warrior and old guardian, old ranger and old mesmer were way more tanky/took less while dealing nice amounts of damage (well the press demo ones), its just noone could regen their hp as necros could.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits#Necromancer_traits; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_UzwdXK5CU and for lich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfE_Xu9H1Bw at 11ish minutes – just from beta 1 to 2, on the old press demo/alpha lich dropped a orb/urn that had around 50k hp (but low armor) and made lich immortal till destroyed (2 was a 3 second 1 minion spawn, 3 the vuln, 4 aura of chill, 5 aura of fear), DS let you absorb life force while in in and upon exiting worked like spectral walks second activation (you ported to where you entered DS).
Also we had pretty much permanent stability, perma retaliation, DS was a stun break and in addition to corruptions there were sacrifices that gave condition like effect for user hp, also like every 4th ability siphoned hp (as seeon on warhorn and staff in TBs video).

Also sweet old 50% damage reduction for 11 seconds on a 60 second cooldown from Sarmor…

Panhauramix.2784:

The necro is fun, but frustrating when X peoples rush you, and they do with impunity because we’re not the “scary monster with a killer dead zone” we should be.

I think it would be better if Anet labeled us something else, so that we can focus our energy elsewhere.

Or if A-net just returned Alpha DS, Lich and Traits… oh the screams of agony would make hell freeze all over.

Dredlord.8076:

it might be circular logic to you…it’s time to leave the roundabout though buddy.

secondly yes it makes everyone else underpowered with regard to turning useless mobs red. Thankfully this game revolves around COMBAT and that’s why we are debating the necros effectiveness at guess what? nope it’s not jumping from great heights…

it’s COMBAT…

thirdly, congratulations, useless piece of information for this argument but congratulations anyways.

For a bit of troll time, actually DS jump can be quite op on a nice chunk of fractals and dungeons, triggering stuff before it should, soloing events that cannot fully resolve since one/multiple before it didnt finish, etc. Examples would be skipping half the grawl fractal by jumping into the llava then flesh wurming onto the ground/plain healing in it to walk there, soloing ice wall in svanir fractal, CoE lazors/lava, etc

I think its the same as their “unintentional” removal of DS weapon swap (that i still want back), since it happens on getting knocked out of not on exit of DS.

Softspoken.2410:

Lyssa tends to apply a poison or a single bleed the most often. Burns are pretty rare, then there’s blinds, blind/chill, cripple, cripple/chill, weakness, and sometimes a single stack of vulnerability or vuln/chill. I have yet to see immobilize or confusion.

In any case, I’d rate the ‘random boon’ part of this skill much more highly than the ‘random condition’.

Seems we got different luck since it almost never gave my anything except confusion… like even to get 1 vuln stack was weird (both when used on necro and mesmer) as for the boons, yep regen, aegis or retaliation. It cannot apply immob nor stability sadly.

Charr are all big fluffy tsundere balls for cuddle, ofc you first have to beat them into crying since they would wanna rip your eyes out if you didnt, but still /hug on each of them~

ProxyDamage.9826:

You’re genuinely saying that 10 seconds of might (that’s 350 power and condition damage at level 80) for 12 seconds + up to 4 stacks of long duration bleeding (because as a condition necro you’ll easily flip your 2 stacks over) are kitten? But 1 random boon and 1 random condition for 5 seconds is the kitten?

And Corrupt Boon is balls because in PvE Well of corruption is superior…?

Just… Get out. Just get the kitten out. You know roughly as much Necro as I know quantum mechanics.

Well then gratz Schrödinger since yeah, might is worth bugger since all basic damage boosts take your static stats into effect (reason why full exotic level 80 does better in a dungeon than a level 40 despite being downscaled to identical stats in AC) and the 4 long stacks (no matter what 4 you use to transfer em) of bleed are ok side thingy you get, but the 10 ~ 15 stacks of bleeding a condi necro should hold in a dungeon are easy to achive by spamming 1-2-5 S/D and 2 on staff.
On the other hand being able to get burning and confusion with a boon for yourself (that if i might remind you as condis dont get that much, perma regen and fury if you really wanna shroud hop that much and protection when you are half dead) is worth more, even CPC is better than BIP since it had a hard defined role, while BIP is like the Steam Box, even for rampager/hybrid build it has a weak defined role that mostly says, and i should use this over X or Y why? At least lyss is on a low cooldown and you get stuff you cannot normally get (despite it being random).

Also may Lyssa confound you!

After 40~ games got 4 nice guys, we helped eachother and a few drop ins get all they wanted and 2 of them even stayed past when i left to help others, some of GW seems to still be dripping into the pool of GW2~

Passive non-rng boosts (runes, signet, passive class mechanic effects) all work in the crap toss arena if you have them in normal and pvp (since it uses pvp setups), but why be a kitten when you could nicely ask people to help you and then you help them get the achivements?

Super Riceman.8702:

Andele.1306:

Withering precision – you get free weakness… that is really nice, especially for hybrids/people that dont like hitting stuff with a wet newspaper (what scepter feels like).

The problem is that its a 25% chance for 30pts, if it always happened on crit I would agree but there are more reliable ways to apply weakness w/ offhand dagger, underwater trident, and corrosive poison cloud; none of those require traiting.

No but its still a good gm trait since you just get it on crits and if going hybrid, its worth going 5 points more for it, kinda a lot like most builds that go 15 into SR go 20 for soul marks.

Axe - personal bias so ill say yes the entire weapon has kitten implementation on necro and im fine with it
Locust - its just like undeath, one part of it is way better than the other, the movement speed on a necro will save your kitten more times than the heal will and despite its buggy nature/implementation of how damage and heal work, the radius around the main target is so small you are lucky if you get 2 heal hits... I just wish it was a ok single target skill doing and healing around 1.7k at base *cough mug tait like*
Armor - bad
Grasp - Personal puppy love, 10% LF is a life saver and it works good as a melee knockdown instead of a pull
Wall - epic skill for wvwvw, nice for minion masters (WoD is better trough), would be better if it would be a dome that applies the buff/well like cpc
Spite - kitten
Withering precision - you get free weakness... that is really nice, especially for hybrids/people that dont like hitting stuff with a wet newspaper (what scepter feels like).

ProxyDamage.9826:

Andele.1306:

Wrong, Lyssa is universally better than corruption skills (since they are situational as a lasor cannon mounted on a sleeping stubborn donkey)

Eh… No. Just no.

Lyssa is a nice and cute gimmick, but, like most racial skills, that’s it.

If you’re making a condition build corruption skills will be your bread and butter. Blood is Power is fundamental, and Corrupt Boon is always worth having since it absolutely destroys boon users (which otherwise are a problem). The other slot will inevitably be used by either epidemic or a stun breaker.

Blood is power is a scepter attack that you dont have to bother with that much, but in general does little (no those 10 stacks of might aint worth that much for the skill slot), self condi as with all corruptions is nice for cc to get another heal proc but overall just ok, LF version was better, Epidemic is highly situational outside of being a zerg in wvwvw, Well of corruption is superior to corrupt boon in pve (the small amount of boons mobs might apply are in pulses either way) and cpc gets replaced by a food buff and/or plain going the condi trait line… So yeah corruption skills are objectively worse for than Lyss.