Guild Wars 2

Only problem i ever had as necro downed is that you cant retarget channeled pulse skills (Life siphon, life leech and Life transfer when there are 6+ enemies around) during cast.

Oglaf.1074:

RedSpectrum.1975:

once again, I think the Crossing is the best staff for a necro

Death Wish>The Crossing

Scythe Skin and Final Rest (no matter how common it is now) > Deathwish

Cant really talk about Invigoration since i kinda just swap it in if not using wells and let the small heals pop around mostly unnoticed, but Transfusion does heal up to a nice count (at least 2.5k pre ally) and it can be used as a over time heal if used right at the end of DS making it worth way more than the 10 points into blood it costs.

Both Transfusion and Deathly invigoration have around a 0.1~0.4 ratio depeding on how they like it (arbitrary map level), overall on 300 healing power you get around 300 pre tick from transfusion and 330 from invigoration, the wiki data is sadly outdated (transfusion got some minionr scailing but limited to the general 5 ally heal).

Tear of Grenth = official necromancer dagger, its so awesome that its held the right way instead of upside down causing for some funny animations.

Bas.7406:

@andele, I was already to type when I ran into you got a Dota2 key and I can’t remember the rest. I saw the visual’s and was unimpressed, but apparently it’s pretty big. I got a Firefall key :P and I am going to do a test on that with my brother, but I don’t think anything will pull me from gw2 except for testing purposes.

Oh nice, firefall kinda reminded me of… well first person of Starcraft or toon 40k Battle of Macragge chapter (power armor, bugs, machines and girls in skin tight leather suits with little actual machine armor and stalker bolters). There are tons of keys for Dota 2 rolling on steam and the visuals are little when you get into the meat of the game, just as in the original. Also there is nothing as satisfying like owning people with Anubarak or Atropos.

Rennoko.5731:

Yes but all those things you state cannot be controlled. Bad people are bad… and while you may have examples of where someone in full defensive magic find gear was more valuable to your team than worlds worst zerker warrior, that doesn’t justify it.

If you know how to dodge the agony attacks, assist, support your team – already – and then you can get 40% more stats dumped directly into damage, that is going to signficantly reduce the burden on your team. Skill can make up for a lack of stats, but it doesn’t make it okay to do it.

And also in this case, skill actually can’t. Every stat is either MF or defensive. People who run Power/Prec/MF can say they are as effective as a knights gear player because of skill, and they may be right. Toughness/vitality/MF isn’t the case.

While i do agree in every point you make, may i also mention that if you do pug, rest of the people are derps and do… oh i dont know maybe spend a hour and half trying the grawl boss with a guardian not doing anything, 3 idiots trying to kill the flame fleshreaver/whatever it is by standing still while lava burns them, spending burst while he/she(it?) has the shield and dont kill the grubs… well i think its ok to just swap to magic find gear and make the best of the stupid situation to get some mats before the group fails and falls apart, yes its selfish, but not worse than what can be happening.

Bas.7406:

Um, Andele, usually you are on the right track, but every single tournament necro is shaking their head vigorously no here. The only way a warrior with skill kills you is if you make a huge mistake or he has a buddy to hold you down. Warriors with all CD’s avaialable are still laughably easy to kill. There is a reason they are bumped from almost every single high end tournament team.

Hammer builds are fancy little niche builds, that do have some fun in knocking you around, but in the end they can’t kill you. I don’t care if I am slowed, crippled, immobilized 66 percent of the time because I am not a thief or elementalist. That Longbow build is hilariously bad in anything that isn’t WvWvW zerging or pve. Actually know there is a great video of 5 warriors running that build and having a hilarious time just wrecking people. What they don’t show is how when they ran into a coordinated team who figured them out how fast they got wrecked?
Warriors are in a very very bad place currently in tournament play, but in a very very good place in pve and wvwvw.

From what i undrestood, Warriors aint in structured team (paid tournaments) is, well, that they are just outclassed in everything that matters if you are actually organized, i think that there was even a podcast somewhere on twitch (just search GW2) that mentions that.
Also its not longbow, its the MANLY SWORD/AXE SPIN2WIN build (it just abuses the fire combo field from longbows and the now added bleeds).

As for guardians no thats just personal play, not as a necro, but a guardian (53% of my random pvp was and still is guardian), never got any necro (nor caltrops thief and even no condition mesmer) to actually beat my kitten into downed unless outnumbered since 1 condition pre 5s, up to 9 depending on hits pre 20 seconds, 3 pre 47 seconds if needed, a full condition to boon swap pre 60 seconds and if kitten goes wrong a condition removed on heal use and a full removal on ultimate usage (so every 90 seconds); so all that, all 3 utilities being stun breaks and 3 pretty short cooldown gap closers when applied to knowledge of necro animations...
As for power builds, 2.5k armor 14k hp, the mentioned you cant do kitten to me ulti, 4 additional applications of aegis and still perma retaliation worked out most of the time. The only class i had problems when i played pvp were the annoying spirit rangers.

Again just to mention, probably not the best person to talk about it with since random pvp and some streams i leave running while eating aint even close to actual expirience in tPvP since... well i got a Dota 2 key *cough <- also a lazy bum and bad loser if enemy somehow jumps by 100 points and wins despite being worse at combat*.

Rennoko.5731:

And for pete sake, don’t run magic find gear in fractals, especially if you are going to pug run the thing. It is basically the equivalent of flipping off your party and saying “thanks for the loots!”. Again if your guild running it and they don’t mind, more power to you; but you’re dead weight.

Its around 40% of stats into MF, a nice chunk but not too much, not knowing how to use skills, dodge, focus fire (harpies and acolytes), use swiftness/stability to “cheat” some of the “jumping puzzles” is way worse than being selfish about stats.

Coffietire.2783:

I think we need the torch. Necromancers use fear and fire is scary, makes sense.

You know that the secondary domains of necromancy are disease, blood and ice, right?

A btw note, if you want a invite to bas’s all necro guild or just general help with leveling, feel free to send me a message or whisper.

As a WvWvW necro the only 2 “big tricks” i know thus skills that are needed are epidemic (especially when kitten enemy goes to kill the grub) and Golem (charge ram), other than that no clue since i dont actually fight people there, but wave nicely if i see them during the jumping puzzle or pull/fear them into a pit of death (or water) if they attack before swapping onto my thief to stealth around.

Bhawb.7408:

Warriors are not that good in 1v1. You see a whole two warrior builds in tPvP, 100b and rifle (on occasion). 100b is laughably easy to deal with as a necro, keep throwing out CC, and if they just happen to catch you save your DS for the 100b. Rifle just isn’t that strong of a build, you are in more danger from a thief.

We beat guardians in 1v1. Their CC isn’t reliable enough to keep us down, and they either drop like a bag of bricks if they do damage, or they just can’t do enough damage to be a threat to you. Remember that guardians are trash without boons, and we have boon stripping.

Warriors are probably the strongest thing for 1v1, just because people like to spam the god kitten broken 100b setup that abuses the fact that stances dont overwrite eachother doesnt mean thats the only setup, there is also Longbow & Sword/Axe spin2wing in flames solo 66% of the time immobilize setup, Hammer cc knockaround and not to forget Maxe/Shield that can block all important burst Necro can put out.
Seriously, i wanna see a Necro beat a Warrior (with both on same skill level and starting with everything off cooldown), even if starting with 100% LF and high chill uptime you wouldnt be able to do that unless the Warrior does some major screw ups.

For Guardians, while being truly able to kill us, they can outlast us since they can heal up faster, so even if you make a build designed to counter the boon spam with their own class mechanics and pretty short cooldown condition removals thus the depending on build.

CHIPS.6018:

Necro is necro. It is what it is. It does not have that many outstanding strength, and has tons of outstanding weaknesses. You would have to discover the fun of this class for yourself. If you can’t, play another class. ^^

Mention one of those “tons of weaknesses” that isnt lack of boons (protection and stability, vigor is for the week without DS) that isnt countered in another way.

Bhawb.7408:

Actually necromancers are one of, if not the best overall 1v1 class in the game. We have the highest defense with no investment.

Warrior, Mesmer and depending on build Guardian (shout) and Engie (kit elixir) outdo Necro 1v1 in by miles (in that order).

Bas.7406:

I have played all 8 professions, and I can honestly say I think the Necro is the most balanced.

I do have to object, since despite how much people hate the idiotic Bullrush-Endure Pain-Frenzy 100b kitten, Warriors, to me at least, seem more balanced than Necros, some stuff like WoB heal on point defense, Plague of Darkness, Epidemic (and if it actually worked at full effect Plague Signet) are some pretty nice things, but on a actually team on team scale they are overpowered, especially when used right, but the lack on other segments (LF generation derps, a sub par minior trait setup, lack of stability and protection - 2 boons that we should be able to keep on during fights as a attrition class or at least have while in DS as effects if traited) could make some people call it "balanced", but to me it seems more like a cop out for the situation. As i said once or twice already, for pvp (from my prespective atleast) the need to balance professions out is: : Ranger > Engie > Ele > Necro > Guardian > Mesmer > Thief > Warrior (in term of who first needs fixes for more viable builds and some nerfs to obviously too strong skills/traits that pretty much leave no real competitive choice).

Then again all i know from paid tPvP is from twitch streams, my pve play of the classes and a bit of random ramble in HotM.

Jayce.5632:

no class should perform better in 1vs1 over group play if all classes cant do it with the same efficiency. i want some balance across the classes.

Actually, that should be dependant on build, not every class should be able to 1v1 like a thief, but remember a theif cannot be as supportive to the team as a ele, its on making a right mix and not letting either side go too far (like the as mentioned are for obvious reason *cough backstab/stealth effects and multi aura chaining*.

Just roll WoB + 3 minions of choice till 60 and faceroll stuff in general pve (minions do die, but no npc ever touches you and thats even without any traits).

As a ex main condition user and now tanky power chill and whatever else i can apply mighty glacier, id say it really depends on what you want to do, WvWvW is pretty much minion and staff bombing, sPvP as a mix of conditions and ally support and for dungeons… well it depends on the ones you like to run, if they have a lot of kittenty objects then the “juggermancer” build is probably the best, if tricky mass mob stuff like CoE and Arah conditionmancers would do the trick, but ofc overall just stick to what you think is more fun.

Stomps and revive are possible with any transformation on channel, but as i see it, that should count as a exploit because using a secondary cast should cancel it if another one is in action, untill a-net enables general use of stomp/revive overall while transformed (kinda hypocritical since i do use shroud rez if really needed in dungeons).

antimatter.2579:

I don’t know why the never gave us the ability to use Greatswords. I mean… Death Knights are a thing right, basically a Necromancer Knight.

Because weilding a giant weapon (and for that matter bows and mechanical weapons) would make the necromancer just as much of a dingbat as mesmers with their float greatswords.

Id go with dual Wielding Swords (cleave and reliable secondary condition application with a chagre), Axe offhand (pbaoe zone control and projectile reflection) and maybe a alternate attack for staff if we get into 170 range *for the people crying about no scythe*.

Ascii.9726:

Your Lich vs Dagger 1 test was invalid, you used Well of Suffering & Reapers Touch on the Dagger spamming but not on the Lich spamming.

A 10%-15% difference doesnt really matter since in a team scenario they will both be upgraded by 25%. Lich is still the strongest attack in game (just by base damage to power scale), but one can come close to the numbers with other means.

Softspoken.2410:

Honestly? I just find it weird that you can maintain life siphon while running directly away from your opponent. Not many targeted skills can do that.

Its because it uses mechanics of PBAOE and character centered theader skills.

Not a bug, its a projectile/object detected skill (the 2 claws/spinning axe mid air with slashes count as objects that hit the enemy), while life siphon, just like life transfer (as another necro skill example) are aoe detected enemy hits with animations. Thus Ghastly claws when started without a target can actually hit a enemy after that, but Life Siphon cannot lock itself onto a new enemy. Also just strafe with a enemy if its annoying you, the mouse and w key exist for a reason.

Not really by style but theme they are going by:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yw2SmG674 – Necro (quite the bunch of Friends)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSS5dEeMX64 – Ele (Swift, Fury, Regen, Protection being parts of em)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8rnMc22AG8 – Mesmer (3 wishes, so many friends and what is the ideal elite for every other Profession too)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ogQ0uge06o – Ranger (the bare greatsword needs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK3x2DOoJIc – Warrior (i mean seriously is there a better fit?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP8QdFttugg – Thief (again pretty obvious, but In or Out is also just as good of a option, but didnt wanna take another aladin song)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqGL9B_TPTI – Guardian (believe it or not, the song with most evil from Disney does mentions the boofs they get and the holy talk of the chorus does at start and the burning is what they do)
Engies sadly got left out since there seriously aint a tune longer than a minute i can think of from a Disney animated movie to work with em, soz~

Ratphink.4751:

But I think the current ‘high crit build’ looks something like 20/20/0/0/30 making use of DS for the most part. Which would make best use out of Zerker gear.

Isnt staple Zerk necro 30/30/0/0/10 or 30/10/20/0/10 depending on skill setup?

Bhawb.7408:

Andele.1306:

Just to annoy you, you forgot 2 weapons that both necro and mesmers can use, but at the same time cant for what we are talking about since both necro and mesmers have a total of 12 combination options *cough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx8IA364_sQ *

Yeah, I was ignoring underwater because, lets face it, no one really cares about underwater in terms of balance. Also, I laughed way too hard at that link.

On topic though; I don’t see necromancers getting new weapons unless they release a number of new weapons for all the classes. At the moment, the weapons are a big area of balance for the game, including how many each class gets. I also don’t see axe getting a cleave; it is meant to be a single target weapon mainly for dealing decent damage but also hugely increasing your team’s damage.

At the moment, no chance of new weapons.
But as said in the actual box expansion, it could be, my hopes are:
Necro – Double wielding Swords and Axes (melee cleave with weakness/pbaoe control)
Mesmer – Guns akimbo with confusing Shields (more bounce blind/ally chaos armor)
Guardian – Whack a mole of Boofs (double mace with aoe buffs upon hit) and a healing Shiv (offhand dagger)
Warrior – (quadzillion combos already, maybe shortbow if really needed)
Engie – A screwdriver in each hand (double dagger for close combat quarters without aoe pulling everything) and a torch to see in the sewers and under war machines (burning and evasive move)
Ranger – Sword offhand and rifle of bee swarms (roll back infront and a stab leap finisher/ no reason except that i wanna see a rifle shooting bee projectiles)
Thief – Snipe ze cheap shots (ranged option without conditions/multi hit but charge times)
Ele – What is a pyro without his torch (just seems like it would fit no other real reason had no idea what to put)

Aenesthesia.1697:

Human = Silvari = Asura > Norn >> Charr

Human=Sylvari=Charr>Norn>Asura
I must object;
Charr make anything kitten, even if they look like demented EVA units or kittenz, Norn are a bit to clumsy looking for a necro, Asura just aint made for necromancy.

Bhawb.7408:

False. They have exactly the same number of sets that we do. They have 4 main-hand weapons, two of which are 2 handed, and as such only count as 2 sets. They then have 2 main-hand weapons which can pair with 4 off-hand weapons each for 8 sets; 10 total.

Necromancers have 1 two handed weapon, for 1 set. We then have 3 main-hand weapons which can pair with 3 off-hand weapons each for 9 sets; 10 total.

Just to annoy you, you forgot 2 weapons that both necro and mesmers can use, but at the same time cant for what we are talking about since both necro and mesmers have a total of 12 combination options *cough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx8IA364_sQ *

Depends on what you want or if you even want a secondary function, but id only think about min maxing the runes/sigils if you got full exotic.
Pure tank is dolyak despite the low regen it still saves peoples behinds, mercy since it helps a lot in pugs or helping people get into dungeons (really good on a warrior) or melandru if you didnt go 30 into SR since the 25% cuts on conditions and cc is massive.
Secondary condition control necro would be 2 lyssa 2 mad king 2 lich/nightmare
If with Knights trinkets then obvious choice would be Ruby or Emerald gems.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNBmODbESrSPTTUjfTBIVA7pHdPu4RKKeYqClD;TsAA1CtoIyQkgILROikEtAZIy2AA – seems like the soldier well setup based on team support while still being quite the hitter (and optional tanking with WoD and Plague).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQEQNBmQDbkRraPezZjhPRMpobbDSx71F1j1xuzB;T0AA1CqoIyUkoILROikEtAZow5jtBPQA- this on the other hand being my personal Soldier setup more focused on swapping around and controling fights with DS heal (2 lich runes being Mad king that aint on the list); also swapping to WoB i do keep people that have full zerker setups that bullrush into the enemy at a ok hp rate in dungeons/fractals.

There was a all necro run with But of Corpse, path 1, was easy till final boss, but mostly because noone knew what the kitten to do, when we figured out i facetanked while he was in ghost form, managed to get him stuck between a pillar and rip in the ground and then we just bursted him after pulling to traps. Spider was no problem (as always avoid death pools and the immobilization is just one more thing to use Consume on), Kholer was the same kitten but more annoying with warriors and mesmers respawning and using cc on you, trash was no real problem because of DS, oh and i had a lag spike to 700 ms from 40-70, but still lost close to no hp (1 or 2 hits) and no graveling got past despite the scavenger spawn kinda surprising me.

Overall the last bosses on path 1 kitten-pool things should get toned down either in count or damage (4 pools that are 1.5 of well size is kinda insane, especially if he swaps targets for no reason mid cast), but it was more fun.

EzRemake.1860:

If mesmers and rangers can use a GS, we should be able to as well.

I don’t find that our lack of weapon choices makes sense.

Greatswords dont really make sense with necro… well at least way less than on a mesmer, but the “lack” of weapon choice is just as with ele attunements and engie kits, the fact that we have DS what is kinda its own weapon set.

Because Necro axe isnt a melee weapon? Just as Ele dagger and Mesmer greatsword.
As EzRemake said a sword (or 2 swords) with cleave (150 range) would be a nice thing for the paid box expansion in terms of necro weapons.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

Andele, I respectfully disagree.

If you can’t maintain melee range for whatever reason (they’re faster than you, or you’re unable to be in melee range because of PBAoE) then axe is better.

If you can be in melee range, and maintain melee range, dagger utterly whups axe.

I tested it shortly after the patch on Orrian zombies… I averaged a kill in 6.5 seconds with dagger/focus, and 10ish with axe/focus. Also, you’ll build life force a lot more readily with dagger.

Well that was kinda my point, just saying what build works better with weapon setup (with zerker gear you really dont want to be anywhere close a mob at “end game”, while Knights/Soldier mix lets you facetank some things or at least be secure in melee range if you know whats going on) and that even with some downtime dagger can be a stronger hitter than axe, my general rule was if i cant be 70% or more in melee on a boss of a fights duration, swap it to scepter or axe before the fight (staff obviously holding the other weapon slot).

For me it would be either Cof in combination with Karma oldgate and Named sets (http://postimage.org/image/6mxs7aghh/full/) or Orr+AC+Crafted.
If you wanna go Stripper then TA + Winged + Human cultural seems to have less on than without any armor.

On another note, if you there is a need for burst 2-3-4 of staff with apply a nice count of conditions (bleed,chill,weakness) while doing most weapon damage without specific traits in a pop, axe 2 being strong ranged burst that you can dish out at a consistent rate and on range. On a power crit build, axe does actually outdo dagger now because of how safe you are in comparison and spamability of 2 while on a tanky (knights or soldier) build daggers higher damage base and hit speed will make sure that you dont fall behind on damage even if there is downtime because of evades, healing or repositioning.

Necro Staff is in my opinion the second most satisfying weapon in game, Right after Warrior hammer (since all 5 skills there are good and on staff the 4 marks), if the projectile speed OR impact sound/damage got beefed, it would be really epic.

Easy reply, Well of Blood, 99% of the time in general groups its the best heal (minions, zerk warriors and npcs you need to defend all get healed). In pvp if going a 2 man point defense, same thing, if doing PVE with MM it makes sure that they survive even stuff like risen giant stomp with ease. Solo PVP and if you wanna be a selfish prick (like i am) then use Consume conditions since it is a true life saver (if you get to cast at the right time), Blood fiend is a pureblood MM heal from as far as i know, but the buff might have made it worthwhile (didnt really use it since level 5; did on tests but never as a long term slot holder).

If i may hijack the point 2 a bit, if someone who is in the guild (thus kinda required to have a necro) wants to level, wants to know a good location for farming a crafting mat, needs help with a personal story part, farm for a boss only drop or just clear some jumping puzzle on a non-necro, chances are that i can help from 1:00 AM PST to 8:30 AM PST.

Charr (or Human and maybe even Norn if we go into spirit shamans being Necros), everything else is heresy that shall be purged by the emperors fury and the wrath of mankind!
Also FREAKING CHARRZOOKAH (you get burning condition via ulti).

sephyranna.3095:

Connargeddon.6719:

Ascii.9726:

Connargeddon.6719:

Be wary, fellow necromancers. My friend got it as a drop, gave it to me since I helped him grind his hall of monuments on guild wars 1, and I’ve learned that, well, it has the same animation problem with the sycthe staff skin.

I’m starting to think anet likes to mess with us. the TWO staves perfect for us, gets animation problems. XD

I do think with some weapons (mainly certain staffs such as the Final Rest) they need to turn off the scythe animation caused by attacking.

I just find it interesting how all the other staves (to my knowledge) have no issues with the animation…except the scythe-like ones. How else do you miss such glaring errors on a profession that the staff is essentially made for?

/conspiracy

It’s a conspiracy to make the Necromancers cry in frustration as their ideal weapon of choice is ruined by animation glitches. ANet is an S. They enjoy seeing the tears of the followers of Grenth

Actually from how long both myself and our god shed those tears, now i use them as a dagger~

Now since that got cleared (got mine from Behemoth too), what about fixing its attach point, Necro Scythe effect and probably the ele attunement effects are about the middle of the staff/where the character holds it instead of being at the actual gargoyle.

Actually if it were a grandmaster DM Trait to make Golem into a Aatxe and that uses the jump knockdown attack like Gravelings, it would be epic.

You know, how about minions just having a getting hit instead of damage cap via hp? Like 5(j horrors) – 15(Flesh Golem) hits and it dies no matter the damage.

Shadow Behemoth confirmed drop.

Just to also note, it also causes the necro not rallying others bug and it is said to be worked on.

*BlTCHSLAPS CHIPS.6018* You still didnt make any evidence that confirms that DS doesnt benefit all builds in at least one way, making your argument flawed and the while whine post proof of what is wrong with the relationship between devs and the community.
To everyone, please note one of the examples why we cant have nice things.

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

On the engineer forum, the same thing gets posted over and over. Trust me, your class is not the only ‘forgotten’ one.

Each class needs some love in specific respects, youd ask me from my kinda limited pvp knowledge by priority id go with: Ranger, Engie, Ele, Necro, Guardian, Mesmer, Thief, Warrior
Ofc there are some aspects of some of them that need to be tuned down, but that doesnt mean that the class doesnt have parts that are overlooked and just worse than they should be to be a viable build.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Frozen Abyss – if only we could get that kind of AOE burst damage skill even with its long CD on land. I hit the jellyfish beast in fracts for 18k on crit not sure because of additional might stacks from warriors and/or vulnerability stacks.

Most underwater weapons could actually be quite fun on land if the skills would be adapted, it would also remove the requirement of adding new weapons.

CHIPS.6018:

Well to be fair, the “current” DS only benefits power and critical builds that makes full use of DS1. Condition and other builds are useless with DS. So we have this “ultimate” necro ability that only benefits certain builds, but not everyone. How is that fair?

That’s exactly why the current DS system is bad. It shuts down your whole skill bar. There is nearly zero synergy between DS and other necro skills. You cannot heal. Condition damage is almost useless with DS. Your play style normally and when you are in DS is totally different. You are not yourself when you are in DS.

I repeat, the only people that loves DS are those that use power and critical builds. The reason is that it doesn’t change their play style that much, when they switch between normal and DS. They are going full blast damage anyways.

Look at DS2. How does that benefit any other build except main hand dagger? When Anet designed DS they clearly only had the blast class in mind. That’s the main cause of all the grieve people have against DS. Not every necro build to be a blast class.

Changing/adding skills to DS aren’t the solution. They can never change/add enough skills into DS to make it work with all the different necro builds. For example let’s say a necro relies on Well of Blood to heal her allies, and that’s a big part of her build. How would DS ever help her build (e.g. benefit the wells somehow), when DS disables the necro’s whole skill bar in the first place? It can’t and it never can.

Remove DS totally. Add LF skills. That way LF would benefit all the different necro builds.

So you want to say that condition builds with Shrouded Removal and eating bursts dont benefit from DS? Despite how much i dont like some parts of it (and i still think that Foot in the Grave should give effect stability like earth elementals have and that toughness should make more of a difference in DS damage), it still feels better/fits more the Mighty Glacier playstyle necro than what would be a cheap imitation of using Engie toolbelts and Guardian Virtues just because of how it changes where and where you cant screw up in a fight.
Here is how it helps wells: 1. you use Doom to push a peron into one 2. you use Dark path to chill slow them and force them to either take damage or use a dodge 3. Life transfer to abuse the damage amplification Well of Suffering gives.

Overall im shocked to say this without it being a joke, but dear god learn how to use DS properly.

Its not only that, they actually always hit underwater (unless there is a giant wall between you and the target ofc). My guess is they just put more kittenty versions of the skills as land ones since most underwater weapons are kinda boring thus making a balance.

Bhawb.7408:

You are naming builds, of course there are builds with strong defense. This would make every single necro build, regardless of how we spec, able to reset battles every time we hit 100% LF. Those other classes are forced to trait certain things, use certain weapons, use certain utilities; essentially they have to actually give up on damage to be able to have those fight-resetting abilities. Now, if healing while in DS was made into a trait, such that you actually need to spec into it (and therefore sacrifice another aspect), then it could possibly be balanced. But as is, giving healing to DS would give every build far too much defensive ability with absolutely no cost.

First off, whoever it is, stop hacking my comp and looking into my GW2 change list and posting parts on the forums (Near to death allowing the use of the healing utility while in DS – joke ofc X3).
Second, almost every offensive ele is forced into D/D and even if he has another weapon set there are simmilar but maybe weaker/more situational defensive options, Renewed is as much of a must for a good guardian as is staff as a weapon for necro (its just stronger than the other 2 unless you do something crazy like one of the teams that went a 3 man control point setup with 2 roamers a few months ago against a few guys from curse on twitch. Trap ranger is a specific, but right now the most seen Ranger build in pvp. With how much life force you generate if you arent Dagger/Warhorn, the degeneration of LF and the fact that its damage consumption scales of vitality, id cant really imagine a glass cannon necro could do more with DS than a zerk Guardian can with Block reapplication. thus allowing Regeneration, ally heals and heals over time to affect the necro in DS doesnt seem that strong (again probably with a heal penalty/treating heals as if you have the poison condition).