Guild Wars 2

Givers if you mean weapons;
Mad King, Lyssa, Lich, Nightmare if you mean runes;
Pizza if you mean food.

Bhawb.7408:

I think healing your real HP while in DS would unbalance it. The problem would become that you are now not only tanking damage and/or stalling for time for CDs, but if you could heal, you could nearly “restart” the fight every time you went into DS by healing up at least portions of your HP bar and getting extra time on your big CDs, all while the enemy is completely unable to truly hurt you.

And the problem lies in? Theif stealth (except for shadow refuge in combat), Guadian Renewed Focus, Ranger Trap nest into Spring and Ele water switch (especially if with 30 arcane) all do pretty much the same thing, reseting the fight by maximum potential damage output, but returning the hp bar to a reasonable survival level while cooldowns get up, for the other classes same could be said with Mace/Shield Warriors, Mesmer Moa and Elixir S, but they are way stronger in combat abuse than a hp reset.

My 3 notes on it:
a) My crazy LF minion channel idea is probably more balanced than this and that would allow you the use of 3 Flesh Golems…
b) CHIPS.6018 & DS, still a better love story than Twilight
c) Obviously you mastered Death Shroud, became the ultimate broken necromancer JP was talking about and with the knowledge of how op it is, want to now nerf it.

Taril.8619:

Life Force in Death Shroud takes more more damage from Conditions than Health does.

Just to clear this rumor, its not “taking more damage”, but since the calculations are in %, it gets rounded up, so a condition ticking for 40 will take around the same amout of life force as one that ticks for 80.

You obviously forgot the most op items in game, Depleted Power Crystal and to reference “Oh My God A Giant Rock!”; in terms of effects they are known as 6bleeds/5vuln and permaknockdown.

Im not saying Flesh golem is dumb (just as a donkey aint dumb, but is still ?rse), but once he picks a target its hard to make him focus someone else on the other hand if you stop attacking a boss for something else, he often stops in place trying to attack a npc thats half a mile away and god knows whats in his mind after you use charge and swap targets… He is… different.

Btw Lich form has Marked for Death and Mark of Horror, also Lich Crits, Crit% damage, the on third chain hit of the minion that does 90% more damage than the other 2 and oh right, AOE does exist thus Golem will die on every worthwile boss that exists in game at least once.

One thing, Flesh Golem is as smart as a donkey with a carrot stick and dies as fast as a rabbit thrown into a wolf den on numerous dungeons, also no Agony Resistance. Golem is fun for general pvp, but lich form is almost ontop of the best elites of the game (Moa, Lich, Time Warp, Renewed Focus, Entangle, Supply Crate, Plague).

A few things:
@Bas, while not really good as a ele, i can say that (especially if 30 into arcane), just the swap to water and a dodge will heal for up to 6k hp with the 2 flat heals having a 1:1 heal ratio and the multiple defensive/cc options dont make it so easy to burst one down… ofc unless you are a story mob thats for 42s while you are only level 28… then you get one shot.
@Bhawb.7408 Trick Thief, and Phantasam mesmer (and one that id like to count but shouldnt is the manly spin2win sword/axe crit warrior to supplement damage while his MANLY kitten recharge) apply more condition damage and that quite faster on as much of a aoe as epidemic only in different forms, necros do win in chill/cripple/weakness/poison
@Rym.1469 – if a dev did listen to what you posted, gratz you just broke the pvp scene into 5 on 5 necro fights that last for eternity (or at least make 3 necro mandatory), im not really into pvp that much except of watching a few streams here and there and still know it would just as op as if there existed a auto attack that caused spawning of kittenz shooting jade maw lazors at your enemies with out a cast time.

Just to also mention, in WvWvW and hotjoin, there is no honor, just press F12 and log out, if a theif or mesmer want to bs around, just deny them the badges and satisfaction they dont deserve (this is from someone who has a 80 thief that was leveled from 40 to 70 in WvWvW cherrypicks).

Already in bugs section, but probably intentional since it doesnt happen if you manually exit ds, just if it falls to 0 (for me at least).

Walk – have it on slot 3 (alternate mouse button) all the time, epic for boss tricks, jumps, running away while generating LF while low and teleporting around with Dark Path, if you ever used warhorn and it you can never go back and even signet of the locust will seem slow.
Grasp – fix it and its the most kitten skill in game, for me it would be more awesome than epidemic, especially if it caused aggro to be set on you.
Wall – good if you locate it under yourself since the eitheral field is off otherwise (either in the middle between your cast location and wall, under you or god knows where), a bit too long of a cooldown for my taste, but with reapplying vuln its ok. Also its a good combination with Grasp.
Armor – useless in 99% of the time, Walk is always the better option, if you want protection that much wall is way better, for stun break and LF there is walk, cooldown way to long for what it gives.

For me they are like the Thief Deception, Guardian Consecration and Hunter Survivals, one is always useful but a full setup around them just seems weaker than a alternative (wells, tricks, shouts, traps respectively).

For now its ok to waste traits since each unlock book resets the traits. For fast leveing id suggest going either corruption utilites if you want to do condition damage or wells for power.

1. I’m a Human Necromancer, and this is now my favorite spot on the Citadel of Flames!
2. Stay a well, and lich-en!
3. They call me Necro, my minions dont have joints. Beat me up and win 15 Glory Points.
4. This is your fault Jon. I’m going to kill you. And all the minions gone. You don’t even care, do you?
5. *casts Spectral Grasp* Get over here you idiot!
6. What boon is served by this circle of stunlocks and fear? There must be a Stun Break, or else our universe is ruled by chance, which is unthinkable.
7. Eliminate all corpses and the one PC that remains must have mastered Death Shroud.
8 Which is it today, minions or conditions?’
’It is conditions, 70% condition duration, would you like me to try it on you?’

Sources:
1. If you dont know who the biggest kitten in outer space is you dont deserve to know from where the quote is
2. I am Deckard Cain and this is insane~
3. Chrono Trigger obviously
4 Genetic Lifeform and Disk Operating System
5. Multiple sources but the 2 in mid are scorpion from MK and Headless in WoW
6. 7. 8. Sherlock

konli.6927:

Spectral Walk

On use 1 – set point at which you’ll teleport back to if you use skill a second time within 8 seconds. Gain swiftness 30s.

On use 2 – teleport back to location at which skill was initially used if within 8 second window (still spectral trail appearing when you move).

Use this to negate falling damage, as the teleport resets your velocity to zero.

Once you’re near the ground double tap spectral walk to reset your velocity to 0 and take no falling damage (or at least not die).

Well known trick and it doesnt actually do a full reset it just puts the counted fall to 0 (you will take damage counting teleport location as the point from which you take fall damage).

Isnt that in one of those towers just as you exit the Black Citadel?

For those that aint already in some kind of group to search for this cursed relic of the undead arts, you can send a Mail in game to Bas.7406 or me if you are a fellow Necromancer for https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/BOC-All-Necro-The-Search-For-Final-Rest/ or if another profession (in which case im asking why not go for bifrost) http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/18jk5r/final_rest_apparently_have_a_very_low_drop_rate/ – first comment.

I wish you all good luck, but only on getting the second drop of Final Rest since the first shall be MINE maniac laughter while life blasts crack in the background!

Already mentioned a few times, but after searching i havent seen a thread with all of em:

Vampiric related: – Its damage is considered pure and unless the enemy dodges/evades, it always does 25/38 damage ontop of the base, even if the target is immune to the base damage (jade maw)
- Signet of the Locus turns its whole base damage into vampiric damage against the primary target (you got around 300 more free hp)
- Changing the stance of plague form right after the last pulse can cause a additional hit check giving you 25 hp pre enemy (doesnt actually do damage but just ticks the plague aoe into a different kind of spell counting as one hit), but doesnt always happen (latency)

Claw projectiles “Necrotic Grasp, Dark Path and Deathly Claws”
- they travel around 290-310 (was just a tad less than the distance one mark at the edge of the target and half of another marks end) more distance than inidcated, but stop their auto homing and shadowstep after they pass their skill indication range (not that anyone would really notice with the speed but still kinda important)
- if combined with said vampiric true damage, one can reduce jade maws hp to tresholds that crystal throws couldnt finishing the encounter (and procing the wipe laser) earlier than ususal

Anomalies:
Plague form will stunbreak, unlike our other instant source of stability, (a food in the grave) from knockdowns, knockbacks and pulls
Plague Signet will pull NPC conditions with long durations only for them to instantly go away or not be applied at all (probably a check as being NPC only), making some events quite easier since the escorts wont limp for half the map.
Ranged minions have a higher crit chance (45-50%) than melee ones (20-25%) with base crit chance on the PC, but Flesh Golem has the ranged minion crit chance and his attack chain of which the third attack does almost twice as much as the last two together unlike other minions that all have just a base attack.
Strength of Undeath is still tooltip errored and works as it did since implementation, giving 10 power pre 10% life force (meaning use Lich form and other burst while at full LF for a bit more damage)

Papish.5806:

but what about my rainbows….no1 ever suspects the necro full of rainbows to be a mass murderer

You PANZY, how dare you grave the reputation of necromancers by wishing for such a… such a…. DISGRACE! (just kidding Bifrost is really nice)

But isnt prospect of finding what is probably the only weapon in GW2 that noone has gotten so far quite intriguing?

*https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Final-Rest-how-do-you-get-it – my old post about it, so yeah its the Gargoyle Scythe from the pvp locker that pretty much every true Necro in Tyria wants.

Riders of the Underworld 4 second channel, 120 recharge
Gain stability for 5 seconds, swiftness for 45, while channeling this skill you are opening portals to the underworld (can be destroyed, 40k hp 2k armor) that summon 4 spectral riders to charge with you, if a rider passes trough a enemy they are knocked down for 3 seconds and get a conditions applied to them depending on how many enemies the riders already passed (first enemy – blind and 5 stacks of confusion, second enemy – 15 stacks of bleeding, third enemy – weakness and cripple, all enemies after that blind 25 stacks of bleed and confusion, poison, chill, burn and immobilization). If a portal is destroyed the rider turns into a enemy to everyone and with aggro started on the necromancer (17k hp 3k armor 243 damage pre attack). Riders last 30 seconds.

OP kitten op, funny and “What Do You Mean Its Not Symbolic?”

On a serious note i would like a adapted version of Spiteful Spirit or Grenth’s Balance.

Fire/Air/Battle and Force/Accuracy – Power build
Geomancy/Earth and Agony – Primary Condition build
Hydromancy and totally optional passive increase rune – Tank/Supportive condition build

All sigils that have a cooldown share cooldowns, dont use more than 1.

Softspoken.2410:

I’m actually testing it right now and…

I think chillblains w/ greater marks is a little faster. But oddly the animation is not. I think there might also be after-cast delay because of that? Because if I quickly cast chillblains > other mark, there’s more delay (you can tell by how much the casting bar fades) than after any other mark. But I can’t tell how much of a difference.

Anyways, I’ve added it to the “Chillblains is weeeird with Greater Marks” point on the buglist.

Thats the same as it was since the greater marks combo field fix, it just uses a really old tooltip when its icon was still the pale skull, it is still 3/4 cast time just like all marks.

Softspoken.2410:

Andele.1306:

Softspoken.2410:

Ruufio.1496:

In beta:

• Dark Path caused an AOE chill upon impact similar to sigil of hydromancy weapon swap.

Dark Path still does this.

120 radius, nothing compared to 360 (or was it 240? cant remember).

It’s a 240 radius from point of impact right now. It just doesn’t get the kind of graphic indicator that sigil of hydromancy does.

If it got reduced in size, that’s something, I suppose.

Im pretty sure its less than 240 (or at least is buggy with terrain) since i often dont get to chill enemies that are in the same location as when they oproced a mark that i placed between them.

Main thing to remember vs a theif: Be able to recover in 20 seconds after chain of attacks and you dont have to kill him since he wont be able to kill you.
Staff Reapers mark, Life Transfer and Wells are the best options, Reapers mark under you makes sure his hit fails and that he gets out of stealth while life transfer and wells still hit him while in stealth, if alone and under 1.9k armor, best bet is trough pressing F12 and logging out if in WvWvW.
As for pvp having a seal of hydromancy on both weapon sets is quite the feast against these guys since the ususal fragility combined with movement slow makes them cherries for the picking.
Also hard counter via Plague Form.

Paradox.5498:

In my opinion, GW2 has a very nasty lack of aggro management. Tanky persons can’t taunt mobs off others, mobs often seem to aggro on players purely based on what profession they play or what gear they’re wearing. On the same fight you mention, it’s practically impossible to have a guardian control the buttons because even if he does not do a single point of damage during the whole fight, he’ll probably get aggro at some point and then there’s no way he gets rid of it other than dying.

The ice elemental (or dredge machine) wont aggro on out of combat units if its in combat with another, just like all bosses, if that happened and the person on the panels didnt attack it, its the fault of the party for going out of aggro zone without conditions stacking on the enemy.

Both hp and armor are taken into question when mobs determing aggro amongst other things, but that elemental just like the abomination on cursed shore tend to wanna glomp one person and not let go untill they are naked. Also no agony resistance maybe had something to do with.

Softspoken.2410:

Ruufio.1496:

In beta:

• Dark Path caused an AOE chill upon impact similar to sigil of hydromancy weapon swap.

Dark Path still does this.

120 radius, nothing compared to 360 (or was it 240? cant remember).

Taril.8619:

LastDay.3524:

When you then consider that there are Staffs skinned as Scythes and that Anet is adding 2-handed Axes the chances of us ever seeing a true Scythe are even slimmer…

Everyone says this, but from what I can tell (Looking at every staff skin in the game) there are only 2 Staffs that are skinned as Scythes – 1 of them (As far as I can tell) hasn’t been put into the game in PvE and the other is from a seasonal skin item (Which is unobtainable outside of buying it off people who got it, kept it and are selling it)

Final Rest and Sinister Scythe Skin, but also about 60% of necro animations have the scythe effect (and a few theif ones like Shadow Refuge).

It wansnt as much the AoE chill that was op as 2 things that could be
A) permafrost via epidemic
B) sometimes getting stuck in the map if someone got infront of your target during your shadowstep but afterp projectile hit (as in during chill and bleed impact).

Also no human ever liked the look nor ai of undead vermin.

One thing i did say before is that plague form should have a 4 or 5 button that actually rewards for swapping around types of plagues in fights (if on 5 then a confusion form would be cool but maybe overpowered) since in both pvp and wvwvw i never really saw necros outside plague of darkness if using plague form despite both the weakness and the bleed being ok.
A heal in plague form would be quite the insane thing just as increased form duration since it already is the transformation that can be used without fear on most encounters and probably redefine “ulitmate bunker” for pvp, especially since there is the chance that the right side of the bar might be unlocked for transformations in some future patch.

Honestly my favourite option would and will still be the ability to have 2 dual wield options, offhand Axe and having 2 swords shred the battlefield, but not in a sissy ranged pink lazor way, but manly giant claws of death that obliterate the enemy upon each swing.
Also @Martin The Brave.8731 WEAKLING, KNEEL BEFORE THE BEAR BlTCHSLAP SWORD!

You know that because of DS vitality scailing it would make the boss need to take more damage than claw of jormag would if youd never bother shattering his defenses if with boss you think of a world scale encounter.

Bhawb.7408:

Andele.1306:

Just to mention it wasnt just a farming tool, they were often used a poleaxes with a more visceral and durable but way more clumsy way by both local priests, undertakers and other importantish people in pegan villages having a giant sharp blade ontop of a stick makes you kinda stick out of a crowd also by general mythos transfered into GW2, Necro, Guardian and Mesmers would be the ones to get em, but as also said no, it would make most necromancer animations either redundant or plain confusing.
Maybe instead adding a different attack (just like a thief gets different attacks while in stealth) if you get into melee with a staff would be cool, but overall actually adding new weapons would probably make the game kinda unabalanced for a while.

The poleaxe version of scythes are not what most people think of; they are not what you get when necros auto attack with a staff. What farmers would do is take their farming implement, and move the blade part of it 90 degrees, so that it was completely straight (instead of the normal farming tool which had the blade at a right angle).

The Warscythe (starting use mid 18th century) is a different story, there were actual scythes designed for manual tillage of small plantages usual for local churches and keeping of graveyards that are sharpened on both sides with quite a fascinating type of treatement since only one blade used by one man was almost as efficient as its evolution, the easier to use cradle scythe. Essencially one put a big, almost crescent piece of sharp fine metal (rarely steel since in older pagan rituals using steel to work on graveyards was one of the causes for “undead”) on a ornament big curved stick (often while not attached also used for holiday rituals) so that the stick not quite attached on the actual middle but a bit to one side of the inner blade. Sadly evolution, comfort, Barbarian attacks and the Christian religion purged most relics of pagan time, but you can still find quite simmilar tools in different keeps over middle european keeps and museums (Slovenia and Croatia having quite the collection of examples with the numerous remains in keeps that probably had more owners than a street dog has fleas)

While much more flashy the only example of it in popular culture would be from the manga Soul Eater where a special attack called the Witch hunter has a similar form.

lettucemode.3789:

Daecollo.9578:

I just wanted to ask something, since heals are so small.

Does life stealing atm even do damage?

The traited siphons do the same amount of damage that they heal you for.

There was a funny bug in the Cliffside fractal for a while where a necro with vampiric could just autoattack the seals to destroy them, cause they would still take the vampiric damage. You didn’t have to do anything with the hammer to get through.

Actually wells can still do damage to objects that can only be damaged by special skills, just as staff auto attack can from 1500 range for Jade Maw. Vampiric damage seems (just as in the original) ignore all forms of protection.

If i may add:
Human

Prayer to Dwayna – 1 second cast time; 30 second recharge : Good overall healing skill if you want a plain hp, but other heals are instantly superior if used with their niche tricks. Ok option during leveling from 40+ to level 70 where it could make a difference because of a tad shorter cast time and good/high base heal.

Prayer to Kormir – 1 second cast time; 40 second recharge: Utterly useless for a Necromancer, but great for some other classes, with at least 2 ways of condition transfer or cleanse every necro pretty much must have it falls flat on its kitten just like Kormir did in GW.
(the 2 combined are just a consume conditions thus, unless for lore, i wouldnt use them)

Prayer to Lyssa – 3/4 second cast time; 12 second recharge: Second best human skill for a necro, being both a option for boons and a condition that seems to more often than not be useful (chill, blind, confusion, burn). One could and maybe should even keep it in fractals and explorable mode dungeons.

Avatar of Melandru – no second cast time; 180 second recharge: Useless, in every possible way if compared, kinda like Artillery Barrage it doesnt bring anything of benefit for its cost, the cast times are too long for what they bring despite the seemingly great team support and unlike the ranger ultimate binding roots dont bleed the enemy and most mobs will destroy them in a hit.

Reaper of Grenth – 1 second cast time; 180 second recharge: Useful for power builds that didnt get lich form yet or a dungeon in that blinds from plague form wont do much but there is a need for reliable aoe damage reduction (chill is amazing), sadly falls off the higher level the player is, but not without its uses if one really wants more chills and is willing to play without stability.

Hounds of Balthazar – 1 second cast time; 240 second recharge: Burn, Knockdown, 2 more meat shields, whats not to like about this skill again seeming like one of the rare cases where the alternative (Flesh Golem) might be inferior, their aoe burn aura instantly sets them in combat and they cc the first target to attack them. For sure the best elite for a condition necromancer who doesnt care about his defensive power.
Only downside is the long recharge that might end up making it inferior to Lich in terms of Damage output over long fights.

Just to mention, if a higher bleed cap was possible, condition cleansing abilites would have to give about 5 seconds of condition immunity after the cleanse to balance the gap and Consume conditions would probably count every 5 bleeds as a seperate condition.

Prism.5649:

TriskaiX.7014:

guardian is more a protector than a reaper so lore wise i do not think a murderous weapon like that is fitting, a warrior and thieve do come to mind

Rant about the lore of using a scythe:
lol @ scythes being murderous weapons…

If you want to talk about who should get a scythe lore-wise then only a Necromancer should be allowed to use one. Despite the Dervish from GW1, scythes are actually not weapons of martial combat because they are incredibly inefficient at actually attacking another foe. Scythes are tools for harvesting crops, and even when peasants would need to fight with scythes they would modify them so that the blade stuck straight up like a halberd.

The only reason the Scythe is so popular as a weapon is because of it’s lore as the weapon of the Grim Reaper. And even in this it was only meant to represent the Reaper’s role as a harvester of souls, not as an actual weapon used by the Reaper. So if you want to talk about which professions should get a Scythe based on lore then really only the Necro should.

Also don’t forget that:
1. There are staff skins out there that look like scythes.
2. The Necro staff autoattack puts a scythe graphic on any staff.
End rant about the lore of using a scythe

Now if you take lore out of the question, I do think it would be pretty cool to introduce scythes to the game because as long as you don’t think about the usefulness of the weapon too much it looks really awesome. Although we may need to wait until a new profession is introduced because at the moment I can really only see a Necro and Warr making use of the scythe. Maybe a Thief but it really would not fit a Thief’s quick and mobile playstyle. Perhaps one of the next professions will be a new heavy armor profession that could make good use of a scythe.

Aside from that, I like the OP’s point about a scythe being really good for generating life force, nice touch. =)

Just to mention it wasnt just a farming tool, they were often used a poleaxes with a more visceral and durable but way more clumsy way by both local priests, undertakers and other importantish people in pegan villages having a giant sharp blade ontop of a stick makes you kinda stick out of a crowd also by general mythos transfered into GW2, Necro, Guardian and Mesmers would be the ones to get em, but as also said no, it would make most necromancer animations either redundant or plain confusing.
Maybe instead adding a different attack (just like a thief gets different attacks while in stealth) if you get into melee with a staff would be cool, but overall actually adding new weapons would probably make the game kinda unabalanced for a while.

Actually if the target has stability it still hits just doesnt pull (it does have the chill component). But all of those classes have a (elite/utility/weapon) skill (respectively) that makes them immune, thus showing the message since immunity negates all types of connection and locks away enemy components on the player.

Bhawb.7408:

Has anyone tested if the Ranger spirits buff minions?

Edit: just had a guildie help out, spirits do buff minions, meaning a spirit ranger+ 4 MMs could be interesting.

Turrets+Spirits+Minions can actually “3 man” most story mode dungeons as mentioned.

Best – was already mentioned with Lich Time Warp
Runner up – Full zerk warrior with heal necro
Honorable mention if leveling with a friend and story mode dungeons Engie and/or Hunter can actually just combine their summons with minions for a small army that works on pretty much everything till adelbern in AC without even needing to really trait for them.

ManCaptain.3154:

Lysico.4906:

ManCaptain.3154:

Lysico.4906:

If condition build, they sure.

I am power build and do not use a staff. Axe/Focus and dagger/dagger.

That seems a redundant combination. Dagger/dagger, for instance, deals a lot of power damage with autoattacks, I can hardly see a reason to switch out to axe/focus, except for focus utilities.

Moving off topic, but heh – This is from a wpvp viewpoint, mind you.

I swap out from axe/focus for a few reasons. Dagger 2 is nice and I have traited for 400 more toughness on channeling. Each set has an ok aoe if needed with axe 3 and dagger 5.

I am always open to feedback and welcome it. I dont have much issue in killing stuff wpvp once I close. Closing without a leap, ride the lighting, heartseeker etc ehh..

Our pull is not that reliable. If fixed I would be very happy. So having the dagger and focus off hands helps a ton once I do catch up.

Well I was asking why would I switch INTO axe/focus set when I do more dmg with dagger/dagger in a power build.

Vulnerabilty, boon strip, another channel if enemy gets out of melee range and you dont want to pop siphon,. retaliation in 2v1 case combinded with cripple and ranged auto attack seem obvious, then again i really dont like to think of WvWvW as a valid place to talk about builds when you can just spam giant boulders that do 20k damage on hit from your backpack and a theif can permabackstab without cooldown because of whispers kit.

Namu.5712:

Necro’s are amazing in dungeons not only for their support but for their massive debuffing and condition damage. If you run with an organized group where you are the primary condition dealer, your group will be far faster then a all warrior group with a mesmer lol.

People think the big numbers on warriors are the end all be all dps in this game…. yet they forget to account for how many times you have to back away from a boss to keep from getting killed, when your dodging or kiting your not dpsing for most melee class’s.

While a necro will continue to do strong dps throughout the fight. If you were to have a damage meter that measured overall damage on a boss for a 5-10 minute fight garantee the necro would be at the top every time.

A full cond speced necro is putting out at 25 stacks of bleed around 3600 damage per second…. now add in their poison damage, the vuln stacks they put up, weakness they add, and their direct damage….. only fools think necros are unwanted or unneeded in groups.

And only fools think their dps is low.

A) Main condition needs to maintain 15-20 bleeds or 10+ and burning or confusion, necro cant do that on a reliable basis like thief – Lotus caltrops, warriors – S/S or Rangers – if not even looking at pet potential just shortbow spam; it is the secondary condition user that holds the utility (chill, cripple, weakness, poison, blind) and condition control, all where necros are epic, thus no, if possible a necro shouldnt be the main condition damage dealer unless the other person is vastly undergeared.
P.S. – the only way 25 stacks can be held on a boss with necro is with depleted power crystals~
B) If you wanna bet i can show you that by supporting a zerk warrior with WoB, Transfusion, Invigoration, Mark of Blood, Blind/Weakness/Chill he will do more than you could with your “strong dps” if not twice as much, also why would a warrior need to stop being useful to heal up if he can just swap to either one of his ranged weapons or if full melee mace/shield and tank like a boss for a while?
C) Despite all said above, if combined with a high single target bleeder (ranger, warrior, ele) epidemic+high cond damage does make a a exception to the rule but just because its Epi-demi-c.

Overkillengine.6084:

Bleed is the red headed step child really. You’d hear a lot less complaints about condition damage being low if you doubled the base damage coefficient but halved the base duration.

You’d have bleeds that were far more dangerous because they’d get in far more DPS before getting cleansed, and more effective DPS in 25 stacks.

Burns do pretty nasty damage as is, and poisons…well, you don’t really use those for the damage.

That sounds a lot like something i remember, oh yes confusion, it was op as hell in pvp till the 50% cut.

Brew Pinch.5731:

Direct Damage hits per second caps are kind of necessary in PvE. Imagine having more than 1-3 players hitting an enemy at a time for 2000 damage every half second, that could reach WAY over 10000 damage per second! The game is currently balanced with the damage cap in mind, if they didn’t have it, they would need to increase boss HP for some illogical arbitrary reason.
See what I did there?
Getting sick of seeing that ridiculous argument to be honest…

Despite my hate for some of Bhawbs logical gymnastics that would break the spine of every being alive, he was actually right here because direct damage does have a cap, its called the armor of the boss and crit chance. Good exaple is Claw of Jormag who while not weakned by imafirinmahlazor asura cannons takes about 40% of normal direct damage while still taking full condition damage.

Posted by me in a different version multiple times before already, being able to summon additional minions at the cost of cutting of parts of your life force untill all minions of the type are destroyed, thus giving the minion masters true armies for management while not making a necro unkillable because of both flesh walls and DS.

Snafoo.2869:

Twice as many for direct damage and they all increase the potential of one another. Couple that with the fact so much condition damage is wasted (by hitting the cap, by the target simply dying with multiple stacks on him or by cleansing) and the small advantage of conditions bypassing mitigation just isn’t enough to compare.

The main reason you still see condition builds at all is some classes are being very forcefully pushed in that direction by the utilities and traits they get and that’s mostly because of the tPvP meta which is all about very focused small scale combat.

While i do agree that crits are too strong in terms of general damage (it by importance it should be Power=>Precision>Crit Damage not Precision>Crit Damage=>Power), remember that all of direct damage also gets reduced by armor/toughness, conditions plain do damage to hp.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180???
Almost no mobs (and for a fact no dragons) except the ones that you are forced to avoid on one god kitten annoying heart or DA (dont remember there is a joke threat about it here on necro forums) are immune to conditions…

While using it in the main hand it equips itself with the blade up not down unlike all other daggers causing some funny animations with the 1 chain.

When used in the mystic forge… i mean mystic toilet it does the exact same thing as a real toilet does to stuff, it goes away without you getting anything.

(4 Opal Mithril Earring (Mastercrafted) dont give a return, tested it once again to be sure it wasnt a one time kitten out after the first time since they are cheap on TP, would be nice if this could be fixed).

Bhawb.7408:

Andele.1306:

While comparisons are bad between 2 different builds, the only condition that ele cant apply just as good as necros is poison and maybe weakness… but for that they have burn and multiple ways of hard cc in just weapons making your while point flawed again.

Okay, lets say an ele stacks a bunch of conditions on me, I just transfer them back. An ele can use 5cds to force a bunch of conditions on me sure, but then I staff 4 and now they have all their conditions on CD, and I have all mine up, and the ele is still the one sitting around with all the conditions on them.

One does not simply out condition a necro, it just doesn’t happen.

Another fallacy since it seems i didnt explain as well, what i pointed out is that they do not lack the continous application conditions that you mentioned as a class strength for the necromancer, i did not say they would need to use them in combat that often since updraft earthquake and boon reapplication take care of the damage migration components. Also a as a ele you can remove 3+ conditions every 10 seconds so no, they wont stick around for long and also you did waste your stun break (or god forbid heal) and strongest mark what is in no way having all your skills up. Unless you go into zone bunker control mode (staying on 1 point with plague and not letting the ele force you to chase him or letting him knock you down in time for combo to go off), trying to outlast a ele is a very stupid idea.
*I even said that back in the days when people said ele are kitten that the kite control they give is just as strong as a necromancers or guardians zone control…

Bhawb.7408:

Why? Because that’s what they are made to do. Elementalist’s are made to have high boon access, they are made to have strong heals, it is in their class design. However Necromancer’s have huge HP advantages over Elementalists. We also have access to poison, chill, weakness, vulnerability, cripples, and condition transfer that they just don’t.

While comparisons are bad between 2 different builds, the only condition that ele cant apply just as good as necros is poison and maybe weakness… but for that they have burn and multiple ways of hard cc in just weapons making your while point flawed again.

In general:
Also if classes should be compared at least do it in a way so that one isnt weak to the others strengths (lack of stability and cc for necro, boon removal and ability to be a one point fortress with max range projectiles for ele).
Mesmer-Ranger
Necro-Theif
Ele-Guardian
Warrior-Engie