Guild Wars 2

Ichor.9360:

Thanks for the feedback. I have some comments/questions though:

1) For EHP, I didn’t say 1 Toughness: 1 Vitality. In fact, I don’t think that’s a correct way to gauge EHP. I did realize, however, that the calculator I pulled that 1:10 ratio from was from GW1, so I’m not sure if it holds true for GW2. Anyway, how is optimizing effective health only a Necromancer and Warrior thing? Since I’m not really familiar with other classes on that level, can you provide examples of how Elementalists get more out of Toughness and Healing Power? Or how Mesmer and Guardian value Vitality? Guardian valuing Vitality doesn’t make sense to me BECAUSE they have so much Aegis/Protection/Regeneration.

2) I’m familiar with the playstyles and situations that DPS Necro builds require. But another thing that annoys me/I find unfair is how people say we can ignore defensive stats in builds, so long as X condition is satisfied. We don’t deserve to have to rely on kiting everything or party composition because the "attrition" buffer they’ve given us isn’t enough to compensate. This all goes back to my argument that the massive amount of health available to us isn’t as effective as other means of damage mitigation and limits our gear/trait choices from an efficiency standpoint.

1) Since 1T=1 Armor and 1Vit=10Hp i hold it pretty much the same (base armor from light to heavy is around a 300 difference, so its pretty much as if protection gives heavy a 40% reduction instead of 33% if we take light as the base without special stats on gear, having indirect diminishing returns the more the person gets his toughness up in terms of hp worth), but true i should have stated it as armor:hp not T:Vit.

Also i think you mistook my point in T:Vit only being a necro and warrior thing, i ment their value for effective hp, not the only ones worth doing it on, since Toughness and Vitality were the main 2 stats pointed out in the post.

Elementalists low hp pool can be used with their high boon uptime as what i mentioned in part 3, deceptive hp, since there are between 4 to 7 easy skills they can use that have over a 0.5 healing ratio lets a ele go up to 60~80% hp from under 10%. And since toughness decreases the amount of punishment taken it gives it a higher effective hp value than vitality. On a Mesmer on the other hand (and lesser degree a guardian) catching one off guard since their defensive options tend to be more reactive puts him at a weaker spot, thus having a higher initial buffer with blocking/reduction to compensate/work with the fact that reactive skills cannot hold up in hit and run fights (mesmers getting more benefits from armor in phantasam builds and guardians having a higher benefit from healing power if build for offensive use because of trait synergy and high ratios, but thats going into specific builds again).

2) While i do see what you are trying to say, i dont agree on the point that a build/setup designed to do one thing should be efficient at doing other, thats kinda what tends to cause power creep effects and "being overpowered"; here i shall use the example of a character in league of legends that is pretty simmilar to the necro in design, Cho’Gath, he has crowd control, minior healing effects, a inefficient hp buffer, mostly based on aoe and one high damage trick (lich form in necro case/transfusion on DS), being a melee with no mobility the base build falls into medium damage and high survivability, but if the team is set so that he can chose a pure offensive role, bothering with the survivability just weakens the setup.
*On a personal note, i think that both Cho and Necros in GW2 should never be the main damage dealers because the effciency we can push out with base stats and defensive options gives a bigger net benefit, but hey if the offensive setups make sense im not the one to stop it*

Traits lines are picked... well for the traits, not the stats.

Last but not least i do agree that DS is inefficient as the main damage migration necros can use (workaround being using chill and weakness, but that putting a bandage on a infected bleeding wound, sure it helps for a while but after some time it does more harm than good).

Sorry for wall of text.

Yoh.8469:

Oh great, you again.

Semantics are important, definitions are important, otherwise what we get are people like you with definitions so broad as to include mutually exclusive things.

Please dont mix semen and semantics..

T-down to anything that includes Necro + Burning/Rifle/Pistols/Bows/Mass boons.

1.) Its no that there is a golden ratio across the board for effective health, the 1T=1Vit is mostly a Necro and Warrior thing when min maxing (with healing power having only half their value unless support), Eles for example get more out of Toughness and Healing power than Vitality, Mesmer and Guardian setups value Vitality (because of mass aegis and protection with high regen uptimes), Thief Engie and Ranger all get minior benefits from all 3 defensive stats resulting in a 1Vit=1T=1Heal worth.
2. With a high base hp pool you dont need to spec for defensive stats unless you want to run a protective/tanking fractal setup or for Arah and even then with a coordinated group (or 2 of ele/guard/warr in it), the defensive stats can also be ignored for zerker/rampager/rabid.
3. Honestly id love to see life siphon and/or LF gain scale off vitality too, it would give a bigger hp variation over a fight making our effective hp even more deceptive than a eles.

True Minion Pack (aka version for guys in terms of commercialization):
1) Aatxe instead of Flesh Turkey elite
2) Reduce Demon Sperm (aka shade/shadow fiend) into a animation and it summons a Rift Warden instead
3) Bone minions are the small claw piles of flesh they were in GW1 while Jhorrors turn into undead chicken from orr
4) Bone Fiend also gets his half cut raptor form back from GW1
5) Lich = Dhuum

Grave-warden pack (aka girl version)
1) Bone minions are patched up pale skeleton princesses (like the human wintersday mini, but nightmare before christmas skin)
2) Bone fiend is a nice little skeleton with top hat and cane that throws his own head.
3) Blood fiend gets to be a flesh bat with nice blobbing blood crying eyes
4) Flesh Wurm is now a nice big shadow tentacle that shoots off blobs of green goo~
5) Flesh Turkey elite now gets to be a ghastly charger warhorse with flames under his feet

Only reason why necros suggest minions during leveling is because till 60 they can kill most content while you are afk drinking tea and reading the local newspaper (that is if they aggro the same enemy). Any necro setup works to around 74 (start of orr) since open pve aint that hard, just take care on some bosses that have a really small aggro range that will regenerate even if you are hitting them in lich form *cough abominations and flame effigies*

You know a screenshot that isnt in the shadows with your character all in black could help point out where the animation is.

Could that happen in one of the next SAB zone updates?
Those crocs are really cute and using one as a warhorn would be awesome.

Yoh.8469:

That’s some shotty math.

While I agree with you on the Grenades, been awhile since I used them, besides the auto-attacks, most of the weapons I listed do have attacks that are not projectiles.
Like the laser on the Mesmer scepter, and the counter, offhand focus’s clone is definantly not a projectile and is plenty offensive, and can even be traited to reflect projectiles.

2 of 3 of the Guardian focus are not projectiles.

And at least half the Elementalist weapon skills are not projectiles.

So my point still stands.
His point was that the Necro was unique because it had some ranged attacks that were not projectiles, well so does just about every other bloody profession.
He was wrong.

Shotty? Shotgun?

Guardian focus has 1 projectile and 1 shield… it was never mentioned here… If you ment scepter true that the main burst isnt, but just like on Necro axe you have to fill the time between hits with the auto attack.
Mesmer scepter isnt the confusion stacking weapon anymore and both other attacks are projectiles (one being a block into line pierce blind other the main attack chain with the clone effect) also while the focus doesnt have projectiles, it isnt a offensive weapon, you dont use the phantasam to deal damage because its projectile destruction effect and condition cleanse with TC is way better, if you want a damage phantasam Warden is on the same level as Mage, as in close to useless (its locked in location unless shatter ordered and being a melee damage cast in a offensive way it dies in a few seconds).
Last but not least 1/3 of ele skills aint projectiles, 1/3 are and the last third are supportive skills with no effect on the enemy.

While i dont deny that marks aint something necros should brag (ranger traps are better either way and on shorter cds for damage), being wrong on numbers of skill effects is something that kitten es me off because it causes stupid comments like “blocking and reflection skills are fine, only 4 out of 8 classes can use them in a reliable way whats totally balanced” or “why can skill x get increased range from elevation if skill y cant, while skill z thats same on effect like y but a giant floating tooth also gets increase like x”.
For short both of you were wrong on points that dont contribute to anything except making people angry. Necros may be dead, but you cannot leave out tje Un thats infront of it.
Undead and necrophilia go hand in hand~

Yoh.8469:

Mesmer = Greatsword, Scepter, Focus.
Guardian = Scepter, Staff.
Engineer = Grenades, Flamethrower, Elixergun.
Elementalist = Staff, Scepter, Focus.

First note, all said takes into account game type of attack not if its a actual projectile finisher for combos.

Mesmer = Scepter, Focus – Scepter clone attack is a projectile, so is secondary 2, Focus isnt a offensive offhand (projectile blocking, condition cleanse, cc and swiftness for team, using Warden for damage is stupid)
Guardian = Scepter – again primary attack a projectile
Engineer = Grenades, Elixergun – offensive uses are projectiles (only fumes on Egun aint)
Elementalist = Staff, Scepter, Focus – 5 skills on both staff and scepter are projectiles (and with 4 skills on staff not having any offensive use at all you can safely say that a only a third for both staff and scepter are equivelent to marks) and again Focus aint used for the offensive options(with only 3 skills actually dealing damage and the strongest being the one used as a condition cleanse).

If you are only right on ~27%, of your comeback (what is shown) then chances are your main reasoning is also only 27% close to the truth.

Didnt everyone go over this once at least, 25 cap is ok, set pve party and tournament setups are organized so that there aint more than 1 or 2 condition (not just damage) specs, hybrids dont go all out on either way so the cap aint much of a problem in that case and for wvwvw the only place it might turn out to be a problem is in smaller groups.
And event bosses, well they now can be golded if you hit them 10 times with scepter or are just in the general area doing something to do with the meta event with the amount of people on them (at least Claw and SB can).

Heh Heh, You Said kjiitztzen. * dies from laughter * Not funny.

Yoh.8469:

Underwater Weapons
No one cares.
-
-

In Closing
~Yoh

Actually, except for staff, these are the only current necro weapons i care about, because they are… well necromancerish? Cold, poison, a ton of planktons that eat flesh, a ton of shrimp that eat flesh, a giant tombstone on a chain, black scythe attack that spins you around like a chara in Soul Eater does, etc.

Also we are Necro- theme/Illus Mesmer/Form Dervish/Aoe zone control Ritualists now.

Downed players count as interaction objects, so no, it is intended that they dont trigger (but i still dont get how you can both trigger the mark and dodge trough its effect or even dodge them in general).

Rule of thumb defensive stat for necros by build:
Minions, Condition damage on crit, Secondary condition spread- toughness
Crit zerker and true hybrid – vitality
Supportive well (and probably siphoning when they fix it)- healing power

To level 60 going minions (no real trait requirement but as people said 20 into DM helps) is usually the fastest way, gearing up your fine (blue) weapons and armor every 5~6 levels (the base ones go from 40 copper to 1 silver and aint soulbound thus can be sold back to tp after use) is also a big thing. On another note always having any cheap food (the kill xp bonus), the zones levels gathering tools to gather everything and killing off mobs in remote places helps a lot.

On that note last patch increased staff animations (hand shoots out and marks drop after the scythe swing not right on … arm flail? like they did before).

deepwinter.9015:

My Ranger is my “main,” and if you want to talk about lack of synergy and variety then Necros do not fit in that definition.

I am having an absolute blast with my Necromancer. I really enjoy the condition AoE spreading which is absolutely devastating and doesn’t compare to a Trapper built Ranger. A Necromancer in a WvW group provides amazing group support and AoE damage.

Well, Marks, Plague, Epidemic, Deathshroud are all just a few examples of how much better a condition Necromancer is compared to any condition-built Ranger. With Bleed Duration, a Necro can sacrifice condition damage for higher, longer stacks of Bleed – a Ranger can’t stack nearly as high nor as quickly.

I must object to this statement, a) ranger trait setups have a lot more synergy with utilities and build options (but true that the builds are limited to a stric utility line what necros dont have to bother with) and Shortbow/Axe and Torch with Eagle pet can dish out more condition damage than a necro can.
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ranger/?6.0|5.1b.h14|7.1b.h17.f.1b.9a|1o.7g.1o.7g.1o.7g.1o.7g.1o.7g.1o.7g|2y.d12.2y.d12.3y.d16.2y.d12.3y.d16.2s.d12|k28.u28b.a5.0.a5|30.d|4j.51.52.50.54|e – quick example.

Going going tanky is good on a necro, but all out tank is kinda a Crippling Overspecialization (tvtropes it), having some utility effect runes and sigils seems a better option most of the time. Clerics is only useful if you go all out with it (going 0/0/10/30/30) for WoB, Regen and Invigoration, but if you do go all out tank, getting Dolyak runes is probably the best option, despite the regen being kinda low, it does helps when you are on 30+k hp and for sigils, the best ones on a tanky necro are the on swap, killstacks dont do much outside of open world pve/farming and on crits wont proc enough times while in soldier gear to make the worth it. More endurance or aoe conditions are always nice, on staff leeching kinda a ok option.

spoj.9672:

Skyro.3108:

I would actually highly recommend Soul Marks instead.

Because staff is a really good weapon….

Its the best weapon necros have, also 60% life force in 5 seconds is no weak thing.

Ratty.5176:

The Kit Swap trait is all but unusable for Multi-Kit Engineers after the patch, it has nice utility, but due to the new 20s Global Cooldown it’s almost impossible to trigger them when you need them, meaning about 90% of the time it will be on Cooldown and when it triggers it’s not likely to be useful.

From what I can see Grenades still need to have a path to the target, they just don’t need to target a piece of ground you can see. Which means you can curve them over things, which is nice I agree.

But overall the Engineer updates left me kindof cold, I don’t think my build really gained anything much in most situations, and I lost quite a lot of utility and healing from the changes to the kit swap trait.

So overall, yes lots of changes, but quite a few Engineers feel they were a bit rushed.

Wait what? It has a 20 second cooldown? Sorry, never checked (and when i was plaing a bit on engie i never really paid attention, it was mostly stuff blows up when i dodge and i run with a giant flame infront of me; aka pyro suicide playstyle from TF2; he is one of my bank pack mules now since i got bored of hotjoins a while ago), as for grenades, i mean it in a indirect way (like you can place marks on walls) not actually letting stuff go trough walls, that is just stupid, what overall means you can throw them down ledges right under you/onto walls that you couldnt before.

900 is fine on scepter, the range increases i would like is Warhorn daze (to 900 and full cone, making it a 1 second cast) and dagger (overall double 1 add 300 to 2 and 3). Maybe Dark Path too, but overall from all the weapons Scepter and Staff are on their best.

blurps.2340:

Both classes received heavy handed nerfs far outweighing the minor buffs actually, although in the case of Warriors they came in the form of the global quickness adjustment rather than a class specific change.

Quickness wasnt a real class nerf, just weakening one build (that was unviable either way; outside of hotjoins), Engies got better turrets, stronger base power on kits, insane utility with that swap trait and grenades no longer need LoS. So weakening 2 high burst tricks (quickness whoring and the grenade/elixir swap 1500 ranged burst that was on par with arcane grab and 100b – both melee) for higher single utility strength and thus more build options.
Not that i dont understand the rage (i want the BWE 1 necro back), but both were cheap tricks.

jakalofnaar.1702:

While they might have had many nerfs aswell as buffs, they still got far more attention from Anet than the necro did. I mean health siphoning from walls i W3, really? Was there really nothing more important they could have used their time on. Perhaps it’s a W3 thing, I don’t do much W3 so can’t comment really..

I really aint sure about WvWvW walls, but even prior to patch vampiric worked of everything that had a hitbox, even trigger events like the geyser in Southsun and wall/blocks like the rocks in AC (that you cant target but are categorized as objects and change upon set values). Hell you can even damage Jade maw who is immune to all damage if you hit him, it is only 25 damage for some 40k or so hp bar, but still it works. So pretty sure it was put in just to give more text.

Same question from me as last time in terms of pvp, how much is the lack of non-transformation stability hurting necros?

spoj.9672:

DS works exactly as before, just you can actually see all the boons and conditions which is more than i could of ever hoped for in a patch. I was sort of able to heal in DS. Used life transfer just as i was about to run out of lifeforce, the ability continued to channel as it always did if you cast it just before you lost all your lifeforce. And because I aoe crit’d a group of enemies with 20 points in blood magic I went from almost no hp to half in a second. Its just a shame you cant force this to happen everytime anymore seeing as lifetransfer cancels if you switch out of DS manually (Was fixed a while ago and noone mentioned it).

Natural LF degeneration forces it, Casting it while the Life force bar is just about 1 cm away from the edge/spam tapping it while casting the last life blast lets you self heal via transfusion, isnt that public necromancer knowledge?

Step 1: Take underwater DS
Step 2: Place Life transfer as skill 5 and Doom as 4
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

Bas.7406:

Signets are 75 percent of the time awful. No one disagrees with this. We all use one or two of them, but a build around them or using more than one of them in a build is just a bad idea.

We will never get a regular use of Vigor or Stability. I think Anet realizes how badly those two were implemented into the game, that they may actually bring some classes usage of it down (this is all supposition on my part). I don’t like it, no one likes it, but getting up every morning to hit the forums to complain about it won’t get results.

You cannot heal while in Death Shroud, and the slow cast time and slow speed of Life Blast is brutal. They tried healing while in Death Shroud in Beta 1 in backfired in a major way, then they tried allowing us to build Life Force in Death Shroud and again it turned us into unstoppable machines. They tried giving us major boon access to stability and retal, and we would literally park on a spot and let people kill themselves on us. I honestly believe they don’t know what to do with Death Shroud.

This is probably a completely different thread that should be made to discuss each of these points. I am only trying to limit the complete negativity about the class that is completely unfounded and based on a few misconceptions. I readily agree we need fixes, but not on the same level as Rangers do or Engineers did. We are not broken, there are a couple of classes that have crazy niche roles, that could use some reworking.

50% of the time, Undeath is probably the best signet in game if you look at the uses (Cd brings it down to the middle ground where all of them should be), Plague if its active worked right (not just targeting requirement for conditions but stun break part too vs knockdown) would be awesome and Locust is needed for roamers (i guess).

Vigor – no, Stability – i wish, the amount of time a necro takes to dish out their set base damage is stupid, but the strongest hitters (wells and dagger 1) are almost instant, that is plain bad. If DS entry/exit was a stun break like it used to be it would be fine, but only 3 sources of stabilty with 2 being elites is bad…

The LF in DS wasnt such a problem, it was the no set trait choices (no adept master grandmaster) and general lack of play knowledge that was. True there were obviously unfair things with perma SS retail (aka stop hitting yourself stop hitting yourself) and so on, but that wouldnt be a problem with the current setup.

On terms of minions, i went a bit into my old GW screenshots and realized, the minions use same ai, the same shambling horrors running into walls or moonwalking golems they used to, its just that this time we dont have 10+ of random minions that die every 3 seconds in a gory glory of bile and death and then 5 new ones spawn within 3 seconds, but 5~ that have longer recharges than the stronges used to have.

Last but not least we all like to troll a bit, its just that sometimes the minion talk does get obnoxious since both sides go so much over the top after a while that Charlie Sheen, BRIAN BLESSED, William Sh(KHHHAN!!!)tner and Arrrnold Schwarzenegger would make a intervention.

blurps.2340:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Maybe we’ll get proper attention next now that engineers have finally been brought up to par.

You better hope Necros don’t get the same treatment Engineers did, that’s all I’ll say.

They got some pretty major buffs… I mean grenades no longer need LoS.

Btw they managed to break Lich 5 boon strip from enemies.

Sad about the green ui tentacles we had over the skill bar in DS, but really happy about the condition/boon thing (i still think we should just get the DS buttons over the weapon ones but the actual weapon and utilites be a bit lower and show the cooldowns). So for DS YAY~

Another LOS nerf (epidemic)… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgP0aUKlmNw – i think that everyone knows my hate for LoS and projectile limitations because of how poorly the game calculates em.

Dark Path shadowstep was working even if blocked/aegised so just a change for the sake of change (comes from a person who loves his permachill).

Life siphon – well… IT WORKED ON OBJECTS PRE PATCH ALREADY…

Staff – thank god, i know its another pointless thing, but i was really getting annoyed by scythes under/over other scythes

Overall patch was a net 1+ (1 benefit/fix 1 negative/fix, a great ui and visual change, rest changes for the sake of change). Nothing to be happy about like engie, but nothing to be angry about. I am kinda kitten off that they added a patch note about something that already worked pre patch, noone really cares about the size of the wall of text as long as its good. What i am angry about is no items in dungeons, thus all terror grawl totem spam is over.

Depends on if you have a set group of friends (and if so what professions/builds they are going), but if not; going wells with all out zerker is nice for pugging and speed runs

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|7.1g.h2.d.1g.a7|6.1g.h2|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|3s.d19.2s.d13.3s.d19.2s.d13.3s.d19.2s.d13|0.u59c.a4.0.u38c|39.7|3t.4d.4a.4b.4e|e

Kravick.4906:

John Peters. Hes a GW2 developer. Came to these forums and basically told everyone to “L2P” regarding using death shroud. The backlash was… huge. We haven’t really seen a dev post since.

You must add that he is also the person (well one of many devs) that said you should use DS before you die…

Bas.7406:

Kravick.4906:

Rangers don’t have this issue. Mesmers don’t have this issue.

Have you ever talked to mesmers or rangers? I have spoken to some of the top mesmer’s in the game. Their AI is worse than ours, and Rangers have the same complaint about F buttons not working because the pet doesn’t always respond. So your complaint is again ridiculously ignorant.

Ranger pets do have attack controls, but you still cannot control their skills or movement patterns causing for some funny teleports (not to mention that half their F2 skills dont do what is said in their description) thus Kravick you are wrong on that point. On the mesmer side (from the 20 levels i got in pve and 15~ matches in pvp) i have never seen them be useless, they work for their role and how they are summoned, being ultra aggressive copies that die when their summon target dies, the only one i can think of that is a idiot in terms of attacking is Phantasmal Warden because he wont continue casting Whirling Defenses if there are no melee enemies near him but projectiles are hitting him, thus here Bas you are wrong (it would be nice that the clones shatter on the selected target, but them shattering on their attack isnt a real problem since you can always use distortion (defensive) or cry of frustration (offensive) if you need the clones gone and not waste the 2 higher damage shatters.

Terok.7315:

Stop thinking we’re all inexperienced players stamping our feet because we think the class should work our way. That isn’t the case and never was, it’s a red herring and simply untrue. Let’s make the necromancers forums a place for discussing the class honestly, with all the pimples and warts. I mean, you do agree that the minion AI doesn’t work correctly, right? I know you think the problem is trivial, but you do agree that it needs attention?

I think i said it before (and i dont mean it as a actual insult, but it is a good description), but when you try to talk to bas about minions he goes troll mode.

Anchoku.8142:

Ideas and opinions on skills

Spectral skills

• Change wall to a dome
• Add stability to armor
• Change grasp to forced enemy shadowstep

Signets
- Cut CD of Spite and Locust
- Give Locust higher damage, remove heal pre target part, make it a full lifesteal and be a ground targeted aoe (2.4k base with 0.4 scailing 1200 range 240 radius)
- Undeath doesnt lose passive upon use
- Plague signet spreads personal and allied conditions in 600 aoe

Wells – Power and Darkness need base cd put to 45 seconds too or be given the same damage setup as corruption

Marks
Fine

General
Specific minior trait at 25 points pre trait line that changes DS to work with setup (secondary condition application, enemy boon stripping, boon application, lifesteal, spectral effect/more LF generation).

Fixed X3

Kravick.4906:

Elementalists are pigeon holed into 30 arcane and at least 20 in water with their trait trees because the other 3 are so god awful. This is why you see nothing but dagger/dagger elementalists every where. Staff is ok in dungeons but you can’t PvP outside of a zerg with staff as an elementalist without getting curb stomped. Scepter is dependent on skills that are extremely hard to hit moving targets with and focus is a pure utility weapon.

Its more that 30 into arcane is pretty overpowered giving them 1 additional skill pre set without cast time (not that they already had 2 more weapon slots than other classes), both fire and earth are great for what they are set to do, Its just that in trying to give every trait line the same type of bonus, they gave some useless (20% bonus while under 33% hp is really bad if you think longer about how much you invest) and some overpowered (on 1% increase in damage for everyone that you can proc on crit, you get a additional 20% damage, really?).

@;Navani.5281 – necros are nice, really efficient and their whole kit always has a good base utility (thus being reliable solo PvE chain farmers and team supports in dungeons), but thus their biggest hitters are on utility cooldowns (1 of our wells that have between 30 to 60 second cooldowns ususally have about as strong max damage as slot 2 casts of a primary burst weapon of other classes that are on 6 to 12 second cooldowns), in terms of elite and healing skills we got the ones with highest solo potential and probably the strongest tanking elite in game (even outdoing the 3 second invul of the guardian) with plague form.

For a new necromancer id suggest using the following skills: Consume Conditions, Blood is Power, Well of Corruption, Well of Darkness, Spectral Walk, Epidemic, Plague Form
Primary weapon set depends on damage type you wanna go for, but having Staff is a must.
For traits getting 10 in DM for greater marks (great training wheels in PvE and mandatory in WvWvW and sPvP) and 10 in Soul Reaping for Gluttony/Unyielding Blast seem like musts for me since they greatly improve PvE play. If still leveling and under 50~60 going all minions is pretty fun because you wont ever get hit… they do die but the enemy dies pretty fast too and the personal story can be done by chain summoning bone minions while having a wurm hold you in combat and blowing them up while being at a safe distance.

Also except for the Theif (because of long stealth), then Necro is probably the top class to roam around the world and explore/do jumping puzzles, Death Shroud can take any fall since a patch and even if you dont have life force Spectral Walk ensures you get a second try at a jump.

I was going with Giver+Undead vs Rabid+krait/Nightmare combo, as mentioned in my first reply…

Rennoko.5731:

Not sure this is right.

Full undead runes in rabid gear would get you around 265 or so condition damage from the runes, and the 5% bonus from toughness (roughly). Nightmare and krait would give you 10% to all conditions, 25% to bleed, and about 110 condition damage.

If you go Giver’s weapons, then you are giving up 180 condition damage on your weapons.

Nightmare + Krait + Rabid weapons = 290 condition damage and 25% bleed/10% all
Undead + Givers’ weapons = 260 condition damage and 20% all

Just further evidence that Giver’s are poorly implemented and executed from a stats perspective. Horribly under-budget, and WITHOUT condition damage… even though they have a primary stat for condition duration… just silly.

That being said, if you want to maximize damage, you really have to go undead runes, and get your duration from somewhere else… Spite/rare veggie/hemo. Don’t go giver’s weapons, as 10% increased condition duration is not worth losing 180 or 90 condition damage, (at least not for necro).

Both the vit (DS) and precision (more crit chance for bleeds) help on the givers weapons, in total in best in slot rabid you lose out on 60 condition damage (rounded up ofc, its like 29.4; whats around 60 dps loss if you manage to do nothing but spam bip and scepter 1 and 2 while critting at least every 3rd hit to hold around 25 stacks) in trade for 10% more condition duration on poison, vuln, weakness and chill, not to mention that givers and undead runes are the cheaper to craft and the gap is reduced the more toughness you get (ally traits, warrior banners and weapon swapping to a rabid staff, etc)
Also if the person has 30 into spite (30%), pizza (40%), hemo (20%); 1 givers weapon is enough to push it to 100% bleed duration resulting in a 60 condition damage gain.
Not that you are wrong with givers not being the optimal setup, but it does provide overall more efficent benefits than a bleed rune setup would in conjunction with best in slot weapons (be it givers on staff if you want to get the BiP and chill/poison/fear durations up a bit;whats pointless; or on scepter for longer spammy bleeds; as in something that can be noticed).

Kravick.4906:

And the dredge fractal? God, why is it that every time the dredge are involved it always ends up being one of the most god awful things to run.

Well they are actually useful in SE, also Well of corruption kittenes~

I think its on the bug list (up on the 4 special mentions of the forums), but if not Swalk (and signet for that matter) dont work right vs Basilisk venom (and the underwater fish rock thing, but does against the basilisk lazor stuns on the map under LA for some reason), knockdowns and knockbacks unless you time it at least half a second after you get hit by the cc.

On a rabid setup going givers weapons on Scepter and Dagger while having Undead Runes ends up with more condition damage at the cost of only 5% bleed duration.

… you know that CC has a base 5,240 heal right, not 5840. I gain 105 from the Death into Life trait at 2k power (missing 2 ascended trinkets to full soldiers; well except a ring that trades vit to precision to get to the 10% crit chance).

PinCushion.7390:

Maybe they want us to be that spooky monster that drags people into the depths, so they made us super OP underwater and fairly mediocre on land.

I told you, i told you all, the kraitmancers are on the way, RUN!!!

necros do have a lot of ties with the krait X3*

You know, i dont think necros would need vigor if DS actually counted as a full second life bar (as in can tank just as much, but still degenerates), especially on a LF generation setup via Staff/Dagger & Warhorn

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

I agree with your idea of buffing weakness but, there is a problem with that: people right now (as you said) focus on protection & regeneration, if you buff weakness without touching those buffs, burst will become trash because of weakness+protection+regeneration.

I think it will be better buff weakness and nerf a bit protection (I already saw this suggestion several times in sPvP subforum). How about protection being reduced to 25% instead of 33%?

Id take Protection down to 10%, but increase the effect of toughness, that would also make guardian and ele builds unable to tank/bunker without actually investing in defensive setups.

Softspoken.2410:

You may have noticed I’m picking and choosing what parts to reply to: I generally only reply to things I strongly disagree with. The rest I’m content to let stand.

Just like DS, unless you give a active focus on life stealing or spectral skills, they are medicore at best as a defensive/survivability effect and in offensive builds being a total waste because the points spent could be used on damage.

Well so far i know that a Warrior, Guardian, Thief, Elementalist and Mesmer got to solo GL, my guess is that we can too, just with enough tries and the right build setup.
I know its not really a feat, but if a necro can get to Lyssa boss (before he dies over and over again because of 25 confusion stacks to just have 2 tokens at the end before giving up) in half masterworked half rare gear on release Arah, anything can be done with enough planning.

DarkniteJ.8053:

I love your accent. It reminds me of my fave childhood hero: Arnold Schwarzenneger.

Arrhhhnuld, ladedadada, ill eat chu, ill eat chuz all!
What killed zeah dinosaurs, se ICE AGE!
Ill be buck!
Sorry had to, all love to Arnold and CHIPS is just as great as the rest of fellow necros (as in does just as many stupid things as smart ones X3), but that wasnt even close to Austrian… But ofc, my pronunciations were about as bad (Ren and Bas are crystal clear on the other hand).

Dont know, i used them (swapped to 2 king 2 lyssa, 2 orbs later on), MK worked with Lich in the dungeon, then again there are numerous runes that work/dont work/work in a different way pre patch.

In PvP nightmare is bugged giving 20% (16% on 4th rune), in PvE it plain doesnt work (with Lich), not sure if they patched it trough.

Well i ment it more as a joke, you can still understand everything in core, just some words end up sounding like something that has nothing to do with the curret topic, but the meaning of everything was pretty clear.
BTW please hold this site up during the podcast in case someone cannot remember the name of a skill, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_necromancer_skills