Guild Wars 2

There’s always a guaranteed Saturday temple run if you don’t find anything open by then.

This week it’ll be on an unknown server, so keep your guesting options free.

Sahnz.2546:

Does anyone have links to ANet stances on condition stacks, or know any ANet staff who is interested in the topic?

Something like this?

Aberrant.6749:

@ Anti

Yes but they also need the experiences of the players to refine their tool. At first glance using the description for those purposes seems fine. However the players don’t read them so it becomes a problem.

It already does filter by which dungeon… which is good, but it needs more options and that would be a great thing for it… you know… what they were asking and talking about what we wanted it to evolve into. They weren’t just like oh here it is deal with it lol.

I agree you shouldn’t HAVE to fill out all these options, but they should be there and automatically filter people once you’ve set them. As the joining player you wouldn’t have to do anything different other than select what path you wanted. The rest could just be automated. If you wanted to create a party with those specifics though you could spend the extra time. Just have an optional advanced tab for that. It could be done very simply.

Still waiting on how my reasoning that filters are a good thing for both casuals and experts (just not party crashers) is wrong.

Well, if the data they gather really shows that this is in fact a problem, they will make proper adjustments. Just keep in mind that such adjustments might not be what you or I want or expect.

The automatic filters you propose might not be desirable from their perspective. There are a lot more obscure reasons for that (slightly beyond my understanding, so I’ll just stick to things I’ve already said in this thread). Just because you and a numberof players want them doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, which is probably why they were omitted.

You keep approaching this issue as if the developers somehow were unaware of gw2lfg.com or WoW or whatever, and unintentionally made a tool that is lacking supposedly important features that gw2lfg.com had since forever. In reality, one of the two guys in the video introduced himself as QA, so again, not a random person that somehow forgot to test for a level or class filter.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

I don’t need to read their minds. Most of what you are talking about is covered towards the end of their video, where they explain the “forced join” feature.

There is a metric kittenton of reasons why turning the tool into a filter would make it worse, most of them have been explained very well in the previous eleven pages. Do I really have to go through that again? Nah, I think I’ll pass.

They said they were testing it to see what improvements they could make… not that there isn’t any room for improvement or change and that they don’t care who you are tossed in a party with and the problems that causes. The devs asked how we would like to see it evolve. More filters is the answer because (no fault of their own) players simply do not read the descriptions.

Getting a group fast is great, but not when it causes a whole host of issues. That would show that the LFG poorly designed. “If you’re spending a lot of time in the tool we didn’t do our job right.” That’s exactly what’s happening. I’m spending a time messing around with people that didn’t read and the tool… and thus not getting into the dungeon because of these issues. Again… the developers didn’t do anything wrong. It’s the players that are not using the tool properly and do not bother to read the description for even the most basic information such as what path. I’ve been merged into parties looking for other paths multiple times because they didn’t read. Been forced to re-list over and over because people didn’t read etc. etc. The solution (since you can’t force the player to read) are more filters.

Heck, they go into using the description for what path you want, zerker only, speedruns etc. They don’t have a problem with these types of players. The other players have caused this problem since they don’t read or simply ignore the description. They sounded like they want these players to be able to find a party of like minded players quickly.

So yes… you would need to read their minds as to what they will and will not consider without more information. I highly doubt their only goal is to just get you any party what so ever without any considerations for what the players in those parties want though.

As far as the reasons the only ones I’ve seen have been that it’ll ruin the game like game XYZ and then they blame the LFG for that and ignore all of the other problems those games had. That’s poor logic once again. It doesn’t harm either casuals or experienced players to add in more filters. It helps both parties as I have explained multiple times and have yet to hear a single reason I’m wrong.

Don’t forget that the devs are not random players on a forum. They have access to years of data, and they’ve spent a lot of time and money designing this tool.

What they came up with is not a filter, and it’s most likely not going to be one. They will not just throw away all that work just because a small subset wants more checkboxes that were considered unnecessary to include so far (again, data, they didn’t just randomly decide that nobody needs them).

If they wanted to make a filter, they would have finished it much sooner, not an entire year later. A filter is easy to make, see gw2lfg.com. An optimized tool that serves a specific purpose, is not. I bet you anything that this is what took them so long.

More filter is not the answer to anything, simply because most players shouldn’t be forced to fill out a questionnaire every time they want to make a group. Checkboxes are bad, filters are bad, input boxes are bad, you must always use the least possible amount of them if you want an optimized tool instead of an excel spreadsheet.

They will make minor improvements where needed, fix bugs, adjust a few things. But still, I’m pretty sure this is the tool we’re going to have in the end.

laokoko.7403:

AntiGw.9367:

Although, I’ve already said several times that some elitist features will probably make it into the final tool, despite of what I think would be best.

I hope you can read my post and make a reply.

Answer me why no lvl80 ever join a lfg which says lvl35 thief lfm.

You act like those elitist that are bad. When infact the the noob are even worse, they dont’ even want to group with each other. There are enough low level which can fill an AC group quickly. Why dont’ they just group up. Most of the people I see joining low level group are clueless people who never done dungeon before.

If you see two post. One says lfm speed run. The other says lvl35 thief lfm AC. Which one will you join? Even if you are willing to join the low level group. Try to do that everyday. I’m pretty sure you dont’ want to do it too.

There are plenty of lvl80 that join a lvl 35 thief.

It doesn’t really matter who joins low level groups. What matters is that people are able to easily find each other when they want to.

I personally wouldn’t join a speedrun, I’ll take the thief any day.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

I am right. They explicitly said things along the lines of “our main goal is to get players into a dungeon as fast as possible”, and many similar things.

That, and those other things tell a lot about their intentions. Maybe my interpretation is a bit off, but it should be close enough.

Although, I’ve already said several times that some elitist features will probably make it into the final tool, despite of what I think would be best.

You can’t read their minds bro. Them saying that they want us to have a tool that lets us find a party quickly doesn’t mean that they think we should be forced to just accept everyone that comes along for whatever path they want regardless of their gear or experience levels, and filter it out ourselves after. Once again… it’s not mutually exclusive (please look up what this means you seem to not understand the concept with your posts). So no you don’t know if you’re right.

I’m still waiting to hear why giving players tools to help them play with other like minded players is bad as well… since the only group that would be negatively impacted by adding in more filters would be the party crashers.

I don’t need to read their minds. Most of what you are talking about is covered towards the end of their video, where they explain the “forced join” feature.

There is a metric kittenton of reasons why turning the tool into a filter would make it worse, most of them have been explained very well in the previous eleven pages. Do I really have to go through that again? Nah, I think I’ll pass.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

Aberrant.6749:

Generally if it’s not said I don’t try to interpret what the devs intend. I am in no way a mind reader and things can be easily misinterpreted. The only time I do is when it possible that it could be considered an exploit… then I stay away from whatever that is.

They were pretty obvious regarding where their priorities lie.

Say you’re right and that is their first priority, that doesn’t mean that other things couldn’t be done to improve it for everyone. Since it’s a beta I’m sure they want to know about how we would like to see it changed/improved. It’s not as if the two things are in any way mutually exclusive.

I am right. They explicitly said things along the lines of “our main goal is to get players into a dungeon as fast as possible”, and many similar things.

That, and those other things tell a lot about their intentions. Maybe my interpretation is a bit off, but it should be close enough.

Although, I’ve already said several times that some elitist features will probably make it into the final tool, despite of what I think would be best.

Don’t post it for 2000g in the first place.

It only affects direct drops. Feel free to just open the chests.

see wiki

Aberrant.6749:

Generally if it’s not said I don’t try to interpret what the devs intend. I am in no way a mind reader and things can be easily misinterpreted. The only time I do is when it possible that it could be considered an exploit… then I stay away from whatever that is.

They were pretty obvious regarding where their priorities lie.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

There is no in-game need for a filter. Literally all of the things elitists ask for would work in a highly imperfect fashion and would have undesirable effects on the community.

It’s not a filter. It’s a tool that heps you find other people. It doesn’t replace the need for communication, and it really shouldn’t.

If you treat it as a filter, you certainly will be disappointed. Just as you would be if you wanted the game to have a trinity, subscription model and other things it’s not designed to have.

I’ve already given reasons why it’s needed and would be a good thing for both of the communities… and haven’t read anyone give reasons why I was wrong (I could have missed some posts though).

As far as the need for communication… if people were willing to read 2-4 words before joining we wouldn’t have this need. However the majority don’t. Since people aren’t willing to communicate (read) these things are needed.

Again I havn’t seen any dev chime in on what exactly they want to be allowed and not allowed… so your view of what this beta tool should be used for isn’t necessarily what it will be when it’s finished. It’s a beta… it’s for them to figure out problems and ways to improve. That’s what we’re trying to help them do with our feedback.

Just essentially saying “No. This is what I think this tool is for.” again isn’t helping the conversation be constructive.

There is no need to penalize the entire playerbase just because some people are unwilling to read your description. The result would be much worse.

My posts are based on my interpretation of the video devs posted. Maybe I’m reading too much between the lines, but that’s the impression I got from listening to them, so that’s where my view is coming from.

My guess is because you can instantly find a group and join it as soon as you’re ready. That is, being logged in with the character that can actually do the dungeon.

Although I would support having this as a toggleable option.

There is no in-game need for a filter. Literally all of the things elitists ask for would work in a highly imperfect fashion and would have undesirable effects on the community.

It’s not a filter. It’s a tool that heps you find other people. It doesn’t replace the need for communication, and it really shouldn’t.

If you treat it as a filter, you certainly will be disappointed. Just as you would be if you wanted the game to have a trinity, subscription model and other things it’s not designed to have.

It’s for role-playing.

The most important thing that so many people are still unable to understand, is that the lfg tool is not supposed to help you filter groups or people. At all.

It simply flags you as available for a specific dungeon run, and you still have to do the work of filtering yourself (through the description message and whispering). Then, when you are sure the group is what you need, you can instantly join it.

That means that regular players can instantly find a group, which is a good thing. It also means that elitists can use their elite filtering skills to get organized with each other.

Why is it so hard to understand?

Downscaling removes any need for separating groups by level.

A group of level 80s has nothing significant to lose if a level 40 joins their run. Elitists will argue that yada-yada, but as I said, nothing significant that warrants a separation option.

Draco.2806:

And then there’s THIS guy again…

You’re saying that wrong. What’s with the “guy” thing?

TooBz.3065:

If you had said “hey, can we get a check box for speed runs?” I don’t think you’d see a huge backlash. It could even be required that groups match (your only presented with people who select speed runs).

Backlash aside, you also need to think about the design consequences of such a checkbox.

Does it reduce the list of groups people are immediately exposed to?
- Yes → remove checkboxes unless absolutely necessary (and most elitist features are not absolutely necessary)

Does it increase the number of steps one needs to make when looking for group? Can this be avoided or with a simpler interface, or the same goal be reached with a simpler interface?
- Yes → you can use the description box to find the perfect group (which will result in about the same effort and amount of steps)

Does it cost more money?
- Yes, the list is dynamically updated, the longer you keep it open the more money you are draining → your group needs to be removed asap.

Harper.4173:

AntiGw.9367:

Harper.4173:

Aberrant.6749:

Harper.4173:

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.

That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.

It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.

No, that’s definitely griefing. If any of them records that on video, you’re toast.

So ragequitting is now griefing.
By this logic ragequitting any event or activity is now griefing.

You can call it whatever you like. What you are doing is rules lawyering that’s not going to save you when a rational person reviews any accusations against you.

Harper.4173:

Eurhetemec.9052:

Harper.4173:

How about you people respect OUR rights to not play with you if we so choose to?

You have that right. It is being respected. You can always leave a group you don’t want to be in.

What you are demanding is the opposite of that the right to exclude, not the right to leave.

So if i make a group – and 3 people who don’t fit my criteria join, I’m supposed to leave now?

Why do we even have to have this situation in the first place?

Leave or kick them.

The devs clearly explained their reasoning for designing the “forced join” mechanic that way.

Harper.4173:

Aberrant.6749:

Harper.4173:

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.

That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.

It is not griefing.
I didn’t kick anybody – i left.
If they can choose not to take advice, be stubborn and insult me – i can choose to leave later rather than sooner.
I’m playing the game the way I want. There’s no griefing. By your definition everything could be considered griefing.
If i tell them not to aggro the boss until we’re set up and they don’t do it and go ahead and aggro – is that griefing?
No – it’s bads being bad.

No, that’s definitely griefing. If any of them records that on video, you’re toast.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

Aberrant.6749:

I’m still seeing a lot of players that don’t understand that “play how you want” is a two way street. Hypocritical posts everywhere.

“Playing how you want” does not include being abusive towards other players.

I agree, and if some one is verbally abusive to you then report it. Wanting a speed run is NOT abusive. Heck, from personal experience it’s far more often than not that it’s the casuals that are harassing/verbally abusive to the people that want to speed run and not the other way around.

AntiGw.9367:

Also, it does not mean that your particular playstyle is worth including in the LFG (see Mr. Sparkles groups). Especially if it’s detrimental to the healthy function of the rest of the tool (see gearcheck/APcheck groups).

If a group of players wants to do something like make a video of everyone doing a dung with Mr.Sparkes who are you to tell them they shouldn’t? How is that detrimental to the tool or the game? These sorts of players are telling other people how they should play… while getting upset at the groups that are telling others how they want to play. Hypocrisy. No one is asking for a Mr.Sparkles filter, so nice try with the strawman argument.

A gear/AP wouldn’t be detrimental either. It would just help people who are at the same level of gameplay/time investment/whatever find each other.

AntiGw.9367:

The #1 priority of the tool is doing the dungeon. Not sitting in LA for 15 minutes waiting for the conformist elite team. It’s about going in asap, possibly wiping for those same 15 minutes, while doing the kittening dungeon.

And that’s how you want to play. That’s not how others want to play. Others would rather wait the extra time (they can have gw2 on another monitor or windowed and watch a show in the mean time) vs spending it wiping.

Once again I do help out new players when I have the time and am feeling up to it. When I don’t I don’t. No one should be forced to help new players if they don’t want to, but it’s nice when they do.

These anti-speed run anti-filter arguments are just filled with hypocrisy and poor arguments. Please take half a minute to go think about things not just from your own POV, but the POV of everyone involved. It’ll really help your argument.

If players would read the text to help find other players like them, then we wouldn’t have a need for more filters… and everyone would be playing the way that they wanted to. Alas, this is not the case.

Abusive behavior is not limited to verbal abuse.

Wanting to make a video of Mr. Sparkles run does not warrant adding a LFG checkbox that lets you find people who also want it.

Noone is asking for a Mr. Sparkles filter, but that doesn’t mean that your speed run groups are more important than a Mr. Sparkle group. You don’t get a filter either, because neither your speed runs or Mr. Sparkle runs contribute something of value to the community at which this particular tool is targeted. You can still use the tool for either, but you won’t get an interface checkbox that supports it.

(in practice, you might actually get some checkbox after the devs finish gathering usage data and such)

Aberrant.6749:

I’m still seeing a lot of players that don’t understand that “play how you want” is a two way street. Hypocritical posts everywhere.

“Playing how you want” does not include being abusive towards other players.

Also, it does not mean that your particular playstyle is worth including in the LFG (see Mr. Sparkles groups). Especially if it’s detrimental to the healthy function of the rest of the tool (see gearcheck/APcheck groups).

The #1 priority of the tool is doing the dungeon. Not sitting in LA for 15 minutes waiting for the conformist elite team. It’s about going in asap, possibly wiping for those same 15 minutes, while doing the kittening dungeon.

Harper.4173:

There’s nothing to get better at?
How about missing half their dodges.
How about Arah being considered hard.
How about wiping 2-3 times at bosses like P1 AC or P2 AC – or even worse – P3 Sorrow’s.

All those are learned after running a path three-four times, they have nothing to do with the LFG tool and cannot be prevented by it.

Harper.4173:

Improving might not mean wearing the gear us elitists want – but it might mean doing the dungeons faster, being able to complete MORE dungeons and doing it with a higher success rate and lower boss wipe rate.
All these would be promoted if people were being forced in a sense to step up their game.

What you call “improving” means exactly wearing the gear you elitists want. Also being the right class, having the right traits etc.

Harper.4173:

What’s going to start giving them a challenge? Farm events like Scarlet Invasions?

If elitists are allowed to harass the population, sure.

Harper.4173:

The dungeons right now aren’t even a challenge to a good player – but to the inexperienced they are a terrible trap.
I’ve seen people who not only fail to dodge or use proper game mechanics but who don’t even know the dungeons or what to do.

Nobody is supposed to know the dungeons the first time they enter them. The point of dungeons is exploring them, not farming them. Noboody should feel forced to watch spoilers on youtube before they even enter an instance.

Harper.4173:

They NEED to improve. If you think that there’s no need to improve from the bads and newbies – you’re off by far.

Also – what am I asking for?

A chance to be able to set an AP limit to those to join my parties.
A chance to set a class restriction on who joins ( say we have 2 light, 1 heavy, 1 medium and need a guardian) – i should be able to set a filter so that I only get joins by guardians. Or only they could join.
A chance to be able to kick people who failed to take into account the inclusion criteria for my party without queue consequences or other problems.
A chance to play the game and enjoy it on my own terms – far from those who take away my fun and wear away at my patience.

What you are asking for is exactly what I’ve explained is irrelevant to the current intent and design of the game and the LFG tool.

It’s as irrelevant as adding a checkbox to only let people who own Mr. Sparkles into your group. Nobody needs MR. Sparkles, zerker gear, youtube or whatever to complete dungeons in this game.

Harper.4173:

If my attitude of setting the bar high is keeping bads away from my dungeons runs – I’m not exactly sad about it.

People are staying away from dungeons not because of the " elitists " but because of bad pug runs that they refuse to learn from.
Instead of going " oh – i probably suck at this dungeon – my party told me so and kicked me – i better man up and get better at whatever I’m not doing good" all this anti-elitist attitude has made them go " oh you’re telling me what to do – kitten you elitist scum, i’ll play how I want"

And that’s why people aren’t improving.
Elitism – Exclusion from runs or content – the primary selective ppressor is being eliminated – so what’s lelf to force them to change?

There is nothing to improve or get better at. There is no content that requires any particular gear or stat or skill/trait combination. All content is designed to be completed by anyone.

Elitists want people to use particular gear/stat/trait combinations to suit their personal convenience (faster runs).

You are asking for a feature that supports what makes no sense to support – there’s no content that would require what you are asking for.

Odokuro.5049:

Wait, what???

How do you sell a dungeon, lol..

Pfft only noobs sell dungeons. I’m selling Lion’s Arch!

Vol.5241:

Stormcrow.7513:

+1 to everything there.
We were promised an update from the devs regarding a performance patch and so far I have seen 0 impact if it was included into the Teq patch.

Don’t make stuff up to promote your false opinion. We were never promised a specific update for performance. What we were promised was that they are constantly looking for ways to improve performance.

Actually we were promised a specific update with at least some improvement, supposed to be live at about one of the current weeks.

TooBz.3065:

Two points, first, no check box or gear selection option on a LFG tool is going to weed out that kind of “bad.”

The way LFG is being designed, it would simply make your party invisible to anyone that doesn’t have a certain weapon or a certain skill equipped, so yeah it could weed out quite a lot.

The obvious problem with that is that would work more effectively than anyone can imagine or predict, causing a lot of issues.

Harper.4173:

You’re saying the game should basically oppose our way of playing just because it’s different than yours. Or because it doesn’t adhere to your ideas and policies about what the game should be like.

No, I’m saying this because I’ve seen several games die, and whose deaths were highly accelerated, if not outright caused, by elitism that was left unchecked.

Shiren.9532:

The lfg tool is full of people like you, the only way that will change is if you let the elitists intimidate you from participating.

The game itself needs to actively stomp elitism. Expecting people to not be discouraged from participating is not going to work, like it hasn’t been working for the last year, so many people don’t even bother to do dungeons because they were given the impression that they are not good enough.

Even all those “go watch youtube” types are doing more damage than helping, although some of them are genuinely trying to be helpful.

ellesee.8297:

the tool is fantastic. i just wish we could view other groups while advertising for one.

Apparently you can, but it only shows groups that are smaller than your own (or large enough to let you merge) and only in your dungeon category. Supposedly it helps you merge with similar groups more easily.

I’m having doubts about this feature.

It’s not making running dungeons worse, it’s encouraging more people to participate, especially the ones that were discouraged by elitists from ever joining a dungeon.

colesy.8490:

So you’re allowed to play how you want, but I’m not? Is that what you’re saying?

You are allowed, just don’t expect that the tool will support your specific style of playing, just like it’s not going to support parties only for people that own a mini Mr Sparkles. You can still make such parties, but the tool won’t prevent people who don’t own Mr. Sparkles from joining.

I assume the devs will try to find a balance between fullscale elitist mode and features that support community building. You may get some options, that will be limited at a point where the tool doesn’t cause too much damage to the game’s social aspect.

Draco.2806:

Odokuro.5049:

What I get from your post is that you DO NOT want to work for anything

YES

What exactly is the attraction of having a second job you have to pay for?

In fact, isn’t this the biggest promise Guild Wars 2 rode into the spotlight on its shiny white stallion? That it wouldn’t be like other MMOs?That it wouldn’t be a grind? That it wouldn’t be “work”? That it would be simply “fun”?

This shouldn’t be a second job. It’s absurd. It shouldn’t require “work”. It’s a GAME. For PLAYING. For FUN.

“Work” in this case means “overcoming a challenge”.

There are many ways to “work” for things in games, so that word should be used with caution.

You are too attached to your karma and laurels. Learn to let go.

If they implement new stuff, you’ll see what you an get at that point. Que sera, sera.

xephire.8324:

cool down for lfg?ROFL.

Yes, you need to actually pay attention to what you are joining.

Mirta.5029:

My only complaint is that story and explorable isn’t separated. If it was, it would just bring a nice new level of cleanliness that I think the tool could use

Maybe this too was intentional, it’s just too obvious to forget to include it.

If it was omitted for simplicity’s sake, I would support making a small checkbox and color-code the background of the listings…

Actually no, screw that too, too much clutter. It’s just easier to type P1/P2/P3 in the beginning of the description.

Harper.4173:

Why would anyone want more challenge? The content can be challenging the first few times you play through. After that it’s just a drag and a chore. You do it for loot. Why would I want to get loot slower?

You mean you do it for pixels.

Here’s an idea – open Photoshop, draw some loot. You can get way more loot that way, why are you even bothering playing the game if you don’t enjoy it?

moiraine.2753:

AntiGw,
Of course it is related.I will repeat what i already said once.

The problem is that the playerbase doesn’t bloody read the descripntion of the post.When i put a specific requirements in my post i expect of people 2 things:
1st to read what is written
2nd to do what is wanted from the poster
When neither of those 2 things is not met then why are people joining the group???
It’s actually quite simple.
Follow the bloody text.

1st, you can kick people that really did join an irrelevant group (like joining the wrong dungeon or something).

2nd, a lot of content is designed for a very broad range of skill and gear, so it’s not right to add a restriction to the tool itself. You may want someone with 45 AR, but what if the content can be handled with 30, just with some additional challenge?

Do you have the right to only accept people with 45AR? Yes.

Do you have the right to have a tool that lets you exclude anyone under 45AR? kitten no.

The tool, as explained by devs, lets you find people who can complete a dungeon. That means, as interpreted by me, that nobody under level 30 can join AC. People in white gear with 0 achievement points can still complete it when they hit level 30, so it wouldn’t make sense to exclude them.

The tool doesn’t let you enforce arbitrary standards that let you make faster runs to the detriment of the community. Note the “detriment” part.

moiraine.2753:

AntiGw.9367:

moiraine.2753:

AntiGw,
Really?I mean really?Elitists?

I have 2 stories for you.

Oh noes, people wiped. The horror.

I have one story for you. The whole party wiped at Jade Maw, except one person with one crystal. Then the whole party was revived repeatedly until more crystals were farmed and it was defeated.

Your elitist groups would simply disband at the horrific inefficiency of all that. Our group faced the challenge and prevailed. That’s what made it all the more enjoyable.

Yeah, I have no sympathy for your likes :/

Do you even understand that i’m NOT bothered with the casuals?But of the lack of reading comprehansion.

I make a post which is looking for something specific like berzerker for instance.This means i don’t freeking want PVT players because i already have such in my group and i don’t need 2nd one.
Or in my post is written lvl38 fractal 40AR is needed.And if i get someone with less AR how exactly is this Elitist behaviour from my side when i kick him???
If i kick someone it’s their fault for not reading my post.It’s a common knowledge.

Not having enough AR is not even remotely the same with your previous examples.

moiraine.2753:

AntiGw,
Really?I mean really?Elitists?

I have 2 stories for you.

Oh noes, people wiped. The horror.

I have one story for you. The whole party wiped at Jade Maw, except one person with one crystal. Then the whole party was revived repeatedly until more crystals were farmed and it was defeated.

Your elitist groups would simply disband at the horrific inefficiency of all that. Our group faced the challenge and prevailed. That’s what made it all the more enjoyable.

Yeah, I have no sympathy for your likes :/

Rose Solane.1027:

Did you watch the video? I guess not.

No.

Rose Solane.1027:

First of all: The video WP made is an advertise for this boss fight. He really likes it.
Secondly: After the good WP explains what he find bad and ugly. And he does this with arguments. And that took 32 minutes.

Whatever.

Rose Solane.1027:

I wanted to make a post to draw more attention to this video. As it is an fine example of how to make an entertaining, informative video about content and give feedback in a positive way. OP already did. You totally missed the point.

Th only thing OP did was make a “go watch this long video for feedback” topic.

If you want to post WPs feedback here, even though WP himself can’t be kitten d to do it himself for some reason (can’t go back to being a nobody on the forums?), you need to post at least a decent summary of the video.

You missed the point yourself. I don’t think you should post topics that just want people to watch a long video, which could be summarized in 5 text lines on the forum. That is not feedback, it’s not useful, and it’s advertisement.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

There’s an entire dev twitch that explains what it’s designed for and what it’s not designed for.

I may be misinterpreting some of the things they say or imply, but I’m pretty sure the post you quoted is fairly accurate.

It even explains that you can kick randoms who don’t read your description, and they can even get suspended if they try to join you again.

I don’t remember hearing them say that it wasn’t OK to ask for specific types of players in that twitch, but I could have missed it.

IMO them adding in more filters to prevent needing to kick randoms who don’t read would be a better solution Vs. wait until they do it to the point where it’s harassment and then reporting them for it. Even if it was just for the different paths speed run or casual run etc. would be huge improvements.

It’s ok to ask for specific players.

It’s just that the tool isn’t designed for it, and will not work very well for it. Simply put, somebody will quickly join your group, or the other elitist player groups before you’ll even get the chance to see them.

The problem isn’t the tool, it’s that your elitist standards exclude a huge amount of population from playing with you. This tool is designed to be convenient to that huge amount of people that don’t see this game as a job.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

What we are discussing is the design of the LFG tool.

It’s designed to find you any group fast, not to find you a highly specialized “elite” group slowly.

Joining a guild is more suitable for slowly searching highly specialized people. Slowly searching is not within the scope of the LFG tool as it’s currently designed.

Anything unclear?

Got a quote that says that’s what it’s designed for and that it shouldn’t be used for anything else other than total randoms who can’t even be bothered to read what path the group wants to do?

There’s an entire dev twitch that explains what it’s designed for and what it’s not designed for.

I may be misinterpreting some of the things they say or imply, but I’m pretty sure the post you quoted is fairly accurate.

It even explains that you can kick randoms who don’t read your description, and they can even get suspended if they try to join you again.

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

Well that makes you an exception, not a rule. Did you even read the opening post? He wouldn’t accept anyone below a certain amount of AP, sorry but that is elitism. Don’t know why you are defending it if you clearly don’t agree with it.

Why do you care if some people want to run with only experienced people. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that and if you are new, as i said before, join a guild and ask there or join one of the groups that say anyone welcome and have fun with those 1 hr ac p3 runs.

What we are discussing is the design of the LFG tool.

It’s designed to find you any group fast, not to find you a highly specialized “elite” group slowly.

Joining a guild is more suitable for slowly searching highly specialized people. Slowly searching is not within the scope of the LFG tool as it’s currently designed.

Anything unclear?

Wolfheart.1938:

AntiGw.9367:

If it was important, he could post it on these forums himself, instead of farming youtube views.

OP considers it important, not Wooden Potatoes himself. Not only that, but if he posted it himself wouldn’t that be the very definition of “farming” youtube views? Besides, what is the point of this post other than flamebaiting?

The point is that advertising some guy’s talking on youtube for half an hour that could be summed up in 5 lines of forum text is not “feedback”, but attention whoring.

Watching youtube videos is not a requirement for anything in this game, and never will be.

Part of the fun is discovering things for yourself, and if you don’t like that, the LFG tool is not for you. Find an “experienced” group in map chat.

If it was important, he could post it on these forums himself, instead of farming youtube views.

Harper.4173:

IF you hate us so much why not give us the chance to never have anything to do with you? Isn’t that what you want? You can then pretend we don’t even exist.

You already have that chance. It’s called gw2lfg.com, and it’s not going anywhere.

Yenn.9185:

AntiGw.9367:

It’s a tool that doesn’t differentiate between casuals and hardcore.

If you want to make groups that promote intolerance, there’s always the lfg website that everyone was using until now.

The tool does differentiate between casuals and hardcore. It was by Anet’s design to exclude features that would otherwise help some to party with people they chose to.

The LFG site is now out of the question because why would hardcore need to use a resource that is similarly available in-game.

They’ll include some features that will help you discriminate agaiinst other players.

If you look at the history of this game’s development, you’ll notice how they decide to add things for all crowds, even stuff that probably shouldn’t be there.

Pandeh.5248:

AntiGw.9367:

Again, people are missing the point of the LFG tool.

It’s not there to help you find the best possible group according to some standards. It’s there to help you socialize.

If you are trying to use it to filter out “bad” players, you are using it wrong, and it’ll be useless to you. Just stick to lfg-ing in map chat as much as you like.

This was commented on above, so people that want to be efficient are not allowed to make LFGs? Only casual groups are allowed?

Why?

It’s a tool that doesn’t differentiate between casuals and hardcore.

If you want to make groups that promote intolerance, there’s always the lfg website that everyone was using until now.