As for their ‘solid reasoning’, I personally don’t think that “because we want you guys to group faster” is a ‘solid’ excuse for such a design flaw.
The idea is that you have to compromise and be more tolerant if you use the tool. It’s not a design flaw, it’s a design goal. The design itself is bullet-proof, since it does reach that goal perfectly.
Just the ability to accept/reject people from your party would already be a huge leap forward. I don’t get why that didn’t get implemented to start with.
A dev and a QA explained very clearly in their video why that didn’t get implemented, and their reasoning was very solid.
Link/explanation? Because I’m trying my best to come up with a reasoning behind such a ret*rded feature, but I’m failing horribly.
I know how they all want everyone to get along and sing songs and fart rainbows, but that’s just not reality. The reality is that some people don’t want to play with some other people, and by not having this feature available, they are making it impossible for those some people to filter out those other people (and this goes both ways), causing great frustrations everywhere.
It doesn’t cause great frustrations anywhere. Several, exactly the same, people posting in the Dungeons subforum to complain about “scrubs” and “rabble” all the time is not “everywhere”.
Just the ability to accept/reject people from your party would already be a huge leap forward. I don’t get why that didn’t get implemented to start with.
A dev and a QA explained very clearly in their video why that didn’t get implemented, and their reasoning was very solid.
For some reason it is not enough for people like yourself to play like you think the game is supposed to be played.
We don’t think that the game is supposed to be played in a certain way. Certain things are supposed to be played in a number of fairly certain ways. You don’t design a bunch of fights just to have everyone skip them all.
Boring mobs and/or not rewarding enough? Design failure, the fights should redesigned until they are fun enough to make them worth killing regardless of rewards.
People skip fights in a way that makes no sense? (no features that would make it a realistic option). Redesign until they fight everything they are supposed to (until the mobs won’t let you rush through their entire fortress to kill their boss, while they have a party upstairs).
This is not exactly a new player question. The only way to answer is to play the game on several classes and see what you like. Seeing as you can do that on a level 1 character, that shouldn’t be too difficult
You can start with sPvP, since that lets you use all your skills and traits. There are test dummies that you can practice on to see what works for you.
Then run around WvW a bit to see what more experienced people are doing, and try to make a build that you would enjoy and that would also work with what you’d like to do in WvW. If you don’t want to or can’t run with a zerg, perhaps a teamwork build is not for you, and you, or the opposite.
Having to kick and being kicked are both bad things. It causes bad feelings on all sides.
No, it causes bad feelings only for the elitists that demand too much of unnecessary crap.
Non-picky people have nothing to win from filters, they can only lose.
So people dont get annoyed when they are kicked from a group? Thats news to me. Ill feel less guilty about kicking pugs when they waste mine and their own time in future.
Normal people don’t really have that problem, because there are only a few elitists that do that. Most people simply open the LFG Tool, and play a few seconds later.
As we’ve seen from the previous topic that got deleted, elitists can barely fill a few 5-man parties at any given moment. They are pretty much the only ones having problems with the way the tool has been working.
Should the tool be re-designed to cater to these people, even though that will inconvenience everyone else in many ways? Hell no.
It seems logical that they purposely made the lfg tool the way it is to make it more difficult for people to be picky about who they pick up in their team. Once the people start to flow in it becomes increasingly difficult to kick.
They didn’t make it that way to make it more difficult for the picky people, they did it to make it more easy for the non-picky people.
You can’t make it easy for both without undesired side-effects.
Before the LFG tool, all the gear-check and achievement-check discussions…
Again, you are trying to somehow reverse the term “elitist” and stick it to people that are tolerant and play the game without discriminating or cheesing. Not gonna work, I promise.
No, skipping is not a game at all. It’s a path of least resistance. Don’t tell me that anyone does it because he simply likes skipping mobs.
The thing is, why do something that you consider to be a big enough chore to justify skipping it? Because it gives you a lot of loot. If there was no loot, you wouldn’t be there at all, skiping or not.
Skipping is often harder than clearing. It takes much more skill to skip some of the encounters expert dungeon runners often skip than to slowly and methodically clear all the mobs out. It’s higher risk for high reward.
Clearing everything is like laying up short of the water with your iron for a safe, conservative wedge shot to the green. Or, you can put on your big girl/boy pants, take out your 3W and send that motherkittener home.
No, it’s more risky than clearing, not harder, because you endanger your entire party by running through mobs instead of facing them as a group. Everyone is on his own when you skip. If someone doesn’t keep up, he’s toast (at which point the elitists often consider him a noob and kick him).
It doesn’t take any skill to take advantage of bad AI, you need to stop making yourself feel better about it by calling yourself “skilled”.
This is what we did in GW1, this was fun. I bought GW2, and I continue to do the same thing because it is fun.
Get over yourself. Different people find different things fun. Your way to play is not the only way.
Oh yeah, attacking a fortified location that nobody wants you to enter.
Your tactic: run in guns blazing no guns at all, deeper and deeper, ignoring everything that hits you. Your party member got downed? Screw him, he’s a noob. A million enemies chasing you? Meh, they’ll just get bored and give up after a few yards. Makes sense? Nope, it’s just taking advantage of bad AI.
The fun you had was what exactly? Shouting buffs on everyone while running like hell? Do you really need a dungeon to do that? You can do the same thing without leaving LA.
I quoted the line for you.
I quoted another line for you.
There are no mobs in LA, there is no objective to work towards. You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
If you want to kill every mob, you can kill every mob. I won’t tell you your way of playing the game is wrong, just because I disagree with it.
For your intents and purposes, there are no mobs in the dungeons either.
Skipping would be a valid tactic if the game was specifically designed to include such elements and objectives. For example, running to a lever and closing a gate preventing some mobs from reaching you.
What you are doing, is taking advantage of badly designed game mechanics and call it fun to justify your cheesy way to avoid actually facing the challenges.
What you don’t realise, AntiGw is that a lot of the guys here ran Arah back when the rewards sucked. No 3g, not even lodestones or champ loot. Just junk chests of blues and vile essence plus the tokens + silvers at the end. They’re not just skipping for loot, the loot is a plus.
And yet they found ways to do it as optimally as possible.
Skipping mobs is part of that, and to offer you an example, skipping Deadeyes is actually more challenging than something like Simin because it’s an immediate down if you get hit by a Deadeye and your party most likely ran ahead. The fact that it keeps you on your toes is what makes skipping them fun rather than just LoSing, pulling and cleaving.
You just dislike skipping and don’t consider it a legitimate form of play so you deny that it even counts as playing the game. You don’t think we should play how we want.
Who are these people? They certainly don’t include you. You specifically said all those things I mentioned earlier about wanting the runs to take as less time as possible.
What is legitimate about skipping? Surviving until you pass the AI range of a mob group? Jumping on a certain stone to glitch-reset the mob and make it run away?
You know how the devs put an invisible barrier on jumping platforms that prevents mobs from falling down when you knock them back? Take a hint from that. It’s to avoid cheesy ways to one-shot enemies, negating the challenge. Which would have the same result as skipping you are currently doing.
This is what we did in GW1, this was fun. I bought GW2, and I continue to do the same thing because it is fun.
Get over yourself. Different people find different things fun. Your way to play is not the only way.
Oh yeah, attacking a fortified location that nobody wants you to enter.
Your tactic: run in guns blazing no guns at all, deeper and deeper, ignoring everything that hits you. Your party member got downed? Screw him, he’s a noob. A million enemies chasing you? Meh, they’ll just get bored and give up after a few yards. Makes sense? Nope, it’s just taking advantage of bad AI.
The fun you had was what exactly? Shouting buffs on everyone while running like hell? Do you really need a dungeon to do that? You can do the same thing without leaving LA.
This is what we did in GW1, this was fun. I bought GW2, and I continue to do the same thing because it is fun.
Get over yourself. Different people find different things fun. Your way to play is not the only way.
Oh yeah, attacking a fortified location that nobody wants you to enter.
Your tactic: run in guns blazing no guns at all, deeper and deeper, ignoring everything that hits you. Your party member got downed? Screw him, he’s a noob. A million enemies chasing you? Meh, they’ll just get bored and give up after a few yards. Makes sense? Nope, it’s just taking advantage of bad AI.
The fun you had was what exactly? Shouting buffs on everyone while running like hell? Do you really need a dungeon to do that? You can do the same thing without leaving LA.
Skipping content isn’t playing, it’s actually not playing.
No, skipping is a game of it’s own especially when dealing with Deadeyes where you utilize more game mechanics than any bearbow ranger/gs camping mesmer/support guardian.
If you’re employing more game mechanics than the above players are, it’s highly arguable that you are playing to a greater extent than those who refuse to acknowledge such mechanics: dodge, cleave, LoS and combo fields.
‘Play’ in gameplay is extremely subjective and could be argued to no end. The mere fact that you fail to see play from other player’s perspectives and indeed are an elitist of your own kind. The people who YOU deem elitist are actually very wise people who are more versed in builds and perspective, they are simply tired of preaching optimal play to those whom like yourself are too ignorant to listen.
No, skipping is not a game at all. It’s a path of least resistance. Don’t tell me that anyone does it because he simply likes skipping mobs.
The thing is, why do something that you consider to be a big enough chore to justify skipping it? Because it gives you a lot of loot. If there was no loot, you wouldn’t be there at all, skiping or not.
Like I said, it’s pretty sad to see so many people call their not playing the game a “playstyle”. It’s like watching people who hate soccer play “soccer” by picking up the ball and throwing it into a basket, you know there’s another game that lets you do just that.
As for players, many of them aren’t actually playing the game my way, they use efficient strats and watch the gold number in their wallet going up. If the dungeons weren’t giving gold, they wouldn’t even be there.
And of course, they are always harassed by the some other playerbase jealous of their “watching gold number” game until their “tactics” involves carrying them in dungeons, instead of enjoying the game itself.
FTFY
Are you suggesting that watching a number go up is just a “way to play this game”? Because I can recommend a game that does it better: Microsoft Excel.
This game is about dungeons and monsters. If your “way” is to avoid all that, than you really should be playing something else.
whoa what happened to “I play how I want”? elitism much?
Playing how you want requires at least playing in the first place. Skipping content isn’t playing, it’s actually not playing.
It’s very sad that people who hate dungeons and want nothing to do with them (as they admit themselves) are dictating how to run them. So thanks to them exploiting of design flaws and loopholes to make dungeon runs as short as possible always becomes mainstream.
Elitism much? What happened to the baddies cheer of “I play how I want”. All of a sudden when there’s something they don’t like they scream “That’s not playing!”
Skipping mobs has a certain tactic to it as well. If you do it scattered and don’t bring running/escape skills, you’re going to die and wipe repeatedly. The fact that many people complain about how hard it is, and many people say how it’s much easier, means that it’s a skill that needs to be acquired.
On a side note, this was my attempt to bring the conversation back to an actual topic instead of huehuehue #5 #4 huehuehue
I don’t think you know what elitism means.
Just because you’re obviously casual doesn’t mean you can’t be elitist.
If one guy says “zerker is the only way to play” and you brand him elitist, but you, in your case, insist that “killing everything is the only way to play,” what’s the difference in attitude? Why is one sweeping assessment of what is allowed more elitist than another sweeping statement about what is allowed?
I’ve seen more casual elitists than skilled elitists, truly.
There’s a big difference between not killing everything, and intentionally trying to kill as few things as possible just so you can watch your gold number go up.
Like I said, these people don’t want to play the dungeon, they admit it themselves. They see it as a chore, and are only there to get the gold. They try to avoid doing the dungeon, and their avoidance tactics are becoming mainstream and forced on people that actually like the dungeons and want to experience them.
When they can exploit or hack their way through the dungeons without consequences, they do just that. When they can’t, they find the most “optimal” way to avoid as much of the dungeon as possible and we get what we have here in GW2.
So these people are playing in a way that requires a minimum of grinding through boring mobs.
They are still playing the game.
So how are you not being elitist by saying that clearing the mobs is the only way to play?
So these people find fighting the mobs “grinding”. That means that they are not enjoying the dungeon, doesn’kitten
They are not “still playing the game”. They are forcing themselves to do something they obviously don’t like, and try to find as many shortcuts as possible.
Worse than that, whenever someone that genuinely likes fighting mobs and doing the dungeon comes along, he is insulted and kicked for wanting to actually play the game.
As for players, many of them aren’t actually playing the game my way, they use efficient strats and watch the gold number in their wallet going up. If the dungeons weren’t giving gold, they wouldn’t even be there.
And of course, they are always harassed by the some other playerbase jealous of their “watching gold number” game until their “tactics” involves carrying them in dungeons, instead of enjoying the game itself.
FTFY
Are you suggesting that watching a number go up is just a “way to play this game”? Because I can recommend a game that does it better: Microsoft Excel.
This game is about dungeons and monsters. If your “way” is to avoid all that, than you really should be playing something else.
whoa what happened to “I play how I want”? elitism much?
Playing how you want requires at least playing in the first place. Skipping content isn’t playing, it’s actually not playing.
It’s very sad that people who hate dungeons and want nothing to do with them (as they admit themselves) are dictating how to run them. So thanks to them exploiting of design flaws and loopholes to make dungeon runs as short as possible always becomes mainstream.
Elitism much? What happened to the baddies cheer of “I play how I want”. All of a sudden when there’s something they don’t like they scream “That’s not playing!”
Skipping mobs has a certain tactic to it as well. If you do it scattered and don’t bring running/escape skills, you’re going to die and wipe repeatedly. The fact that many people complain about how hard it is, and many people say how it’s much easier, means that it’s a skill that needs to be acquired.
On a side note, this was my attempt to bring the conversation back to an actual topic instead of huehuehue #5 #4 huehuehue
I don’t think you know what elitism means.
Just because you’re obviously casual doesn’t mean you can’t be elitist.
If one guy says “zerker is the only way to play” and you brand him elitist, but you, in your case, insist that “killing everything is the only way to play,” what’s the difference in attitude? Why is one sweeping assessment of what is allowed more elitist than another sweeping statement about what is allowed?
I’ve seen more casual elitists than skilled elitists, truly.
There’s a big difference between not killing everything, and intentionally trying to kill as few things as possible just so you can watch your gold number go up.
Like I said, these people don’t want to play the dungeon, they admit it themselves. They see it as a chore, and are only there to get the gold. They try to avoid doing the dungeon, and their avoidance tactics are becoming mainstream and forced on people that actually like the dungeons and want to experience them.
When they can exploit or hack their way through the dungeons without consequences, they do just that. When they can’t, they find the most “optimal” way to avoid as much of the dungeon as possible and we get what we have here in GW2.
As for players, many of them aren’t actually playing the game my way, they use efficient strats and watch the gold number in their wallet going up. If the dungeons weren’t giving gold, they wouldn’t even be there.
And of course, they are always harassed by the some other playerbase jealous of their “watching gold number” game until their “tactics” involves carrying them in dungeons, instead of enjoying the game itself.
FTFY
Are you suggesting that watching a number go up is just a “way to play this game”? Because I can recommend a game that does it better: Microsoft Excel.
This game is about dungeons and monsters. If your “way” is to avoid all that, than you really should be playing something else.
whoa what happened to “I play how I want”? elitism much?
Playing how you want requires at least playing in the first place. Skipping content isn’t playing, it’s actually not playing.
It’s very sad that people who hate dungeons and want nothing to do with them (as they admit themselves) are dictating how to run them. So thanks to them exploiting of design flaws and loopholes to make dungeon runs as short as possible always becomes mainstream.
Elitism much? What happened to the baddies cheer of “I play how I want”. All of a sudden when there’s something they don’t like they scream “That’s not playing!”
Skipping mobs has a certain tactic to it as well. If you do it scattered and don’t bring running/escape skills, you’re going to die and wipe repeatedly. The fact that many people complain about how hard it is, and many people say how it’s much easier, means that it’s a skill that needs to be acquired.
On a side note, this was my attempt to bring the conversation back to an actual topic instead of huehuehue #5 #4 huehuehue
I got a group together one day for AC when I was level 40ish. Everyone else was level 80. They all said they wanted to kick me, but did nothing about it. Everything went perfectly fine in AC, everything was going smooth and I never died, but everyone else in my party got downed at least twice. 2 minutes later, I get a kick and a nice whisper saying, “Don’t come back until you’re level 80”. I sent them a nice message saying, “L2P”. Needless to say, I added them to my friends list so I could plan revenge one day.
I leveled to 80, got a commander title, world completion, and I made a build that let me farm CoF extremely quickly, so quickly in fact, that I actually had people lining up in a queue to join my party for CoF farm runs. So I’m farming one day, and lo and behold, 2 guys that kicked me from AC showed up begging for a run. I let them in. I whisper the other members of the party explaining what happened to me and I tell them my plan. We get to the final boss, and I vote to kick them both when the boss was at 10% health. I got some pretty mean whispers, but all I said was, “Remember me? Now don’t kick lowbies or they may own your life one day”.
I somehow doubt that anyone was lining up in queue to run dungeons with you.
As for players, many of them aren’t actually playing the game my way, they use efficient strats and watch the gold number in their wallet going up. If the dungeons weren’t giving gold, they wouldn’t even be there.
And of course, they are always harassed by the some other playerbase jealous of their “watching gold number” game until their “tactics” involves carrying them in dungeons, instead of enjoying the game itself.
FTFY
Are you suggesting that watching a number go up is just a “way to play this game”? Because I can recommend a game that does it better: Microsoft Excel.
This game is about dungeons and monsters. If your “way” is to avoid all that, than you really should be playing something else.
whoa what happened to “I play how I want”? elitism much?
Playing how you want requires at least playing in the first place. Skipping content isn’t playing, it’s actually not playing.
It’s very sad that people who hate dungeons and want nothing to do with them (as they admit themselves) are dictating how to run them. So thanks to them exploiting of design flaws and loopholes to make dungeon runs as short as possible always becomes mainstream.
As for players, many of them aren’t actually playing the game my way, they use efficient strats and watch the gold number in their wallet going up. If the dungeons weren’t giving gold, they wouldn’t even be there.
And of course, they are always harassed by the some other playerbase jealous of their “watching gold number” game until their “tactics” involves carrying them in dungeons, instead of enjoying the game itself.
FTFY
Are you suggesting that watching a number go up is just a “way to play this game”? Because I can recommend a game that does it better: Microsoft Excel.
This game is about dungeons and monsters. If your “way” is to avoid all that, than you really should be playing something else.
It’s not really an exploit, but more of a design failure.
As for players, many of them aren’t actually playing the game, they merely watch the gold number in their wallet going up. If the dungeons weren’t giving gold, they wouldn’t even be there.
And of course, they are always trying to pull the entire playerbase into their “watching gold number” game until such “tactics” become mainstream, instead of enjoying the game itself.
You can start at lvl 1 if you want (you’ll be scaled to 80) but basically you won’t find a group to begin with. So wait till you reach lvl 80, get some decent gears and start doing fractal
On the contrary, a lot of people are afraid of doing fractal because elitists spread this crap everywhere.
You’ll be able to find people willing to do 1-10 fractals at any level, if you specify “first timer” in your description. Any class can do fine there.
I have several posts in the Ascended Armor Impressions, but it doesn’t display the little arrow icon that lets you know that you have replied to a topic.
I think simply being able to accept or deny people joining your group as the one who is the leader (made the post) would be sufficient.
So right – but sadly the “anti-elitist” people won’t have that.
Not just by anti-elitist people. The devs themselves explicitly stated that “forced join” is intentional, and explained why. And I agree with them, it makes the tool more convenient overall.
I am really concerned if they will continue this trend and only put the good looking armor sets into the cash shop – for doubly obvious reasons.
That would be a perfectly acceptable thing to do. Cosmetic skins in the shop.
There’s a flaw in that stance.
ANet seems to want to revert to horizontal progression rather than vertical once Ascended is all out. We’ve yet to see the proposed skill system, so we have no idea if that will work out. Skins have been part of horizontal progression going back to GW. Failing to provide skins that people can feel they are playing to get (not just farming gold to buy gems) is going to sink that part of horizontal progression.
There needs to be a mix of skins so that some can be obtained through play and some can be bought. It can’t just be unappealing skins and back pieces through play. Well, not if they’re serious about horizontal progression as a major component of endgame.
There are plenty of nice skins, both in-game ane in gem shop. And there will be more.
You can’t complain if the weight is going to be more on the shop. That’s how the game was always supposed to be funded.
You think the description in the lfg tool was supposed to be used?!?!? wheres anitgw when you need him to instill some sense in these entitled elitists
Of course the description of grouping should be read, a description of for desired groups does not an elitist make.
Ah this is true, however for some reason people will have arguments with you that the tool was supposed to be used to find groups fast not to find specific groups.
(prob should have added a /s at the end of that post)
If this REALLY were the case then a description field would not have been added.
This really were the case, although not the way that guy is saying it (because he didn’t read my posts that actually explain that).
The box was added simply to let other people know what you are looking for. Once they join, it’s your responsibility to figure things out among yourselves. The tool itself was indeed designed with a priority on finding groups fast (and let you talk things out after that), not finding you groups that fit specific criteria.
You think people will read it? They never will. This will be a big problem in the current iteration of the LFG FOREVER.
This is why developers should make the LFG tool idiot proof. Unfortunately, ANet didn’t make it idiot proof so we all will suffer.
This is not a problem, big or small, and will not be. People that don’t read will eventually get tired of being kicked and suspended from joining groups.
Anet really needs to force people to read the description when joining.
Adding a confirmation button with the party text/description above it and a 5 second delay before enabling it would probably do the job.
And what happens while the person is looking at the confirmation button? Does the group get removed from the list for 5 seconds, or are people still able to see it and also click join? What if many people start clicking join at the same time, do they get placed into a queue or something?
The tool was designed to find you a group fast, and your idea doesn’t help that (I had thought of something like that myself, before discarding it for the same reasons).
Exactly what happens when they click join. A spot gets filled up, also add a cancel button so when they actually realize the group isn’t for them before 5 seconds they don’t waste their time & the party.
I’d argue against finding a group fast being a priority vs finding a correct group. If that was what was intended then why even bother having a description text to be filled up?
So your group can effectively be kept off the list by people who can’t decide what they want. Meanwhile everybody else who does know what he’s clicking the join button for, is being slowed down by the tool.
The reading issue is not big enough to inconvenience the entire playerbase who is having a great time with the tool already.
