Guild Wars 2

Melee is viable. But you need skill to make up for it.

Edge.4180:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The rest of the list, well, you didn’t respond to them so I can only conclude you conceded them as being valid points.

Now who is trying to score points on whom? Didn’t you scold someone twice recently in one of these threads for doing that to you?

No, I didn’t cover the other specific events in your list because I know you’re unable to monitor the status of all of them on your own server 24/7, much less all of the servers, thus making the list rather pointless. The truth is, you have no idea how often those locations are being completed.

Cripes, I have yet to participate in Laughing Gull Island because it has been broken on my server every single time I go by there, and I drop by that zone a lot.

Regardless if they can monitor it or not. Because Anet put it in (who can monitor such events and has data I presume) and hasn’t removed it, I’m sure they consider this new loot table to be a positive incentive because a lot more people are willing to do it.

If you want to talk about fun, they really need to make it more challenging. IMO, people either want a challenge or good loot, if you have neither, than it’s not worth doing for most people. No, I do not monitor these events 24/7 but from my experience, most of the people who do them are just waiting for a precursor drop anyways and complain about blues/greens even before this loot system was put into place.

I think a solution to your problem would be a way to fix the overflow/dragon lag. I think what you are suggesting is just a knee-jerk reaction to being unable to fight against a dragon due to the high population and you neglect the better solution of just figuring out a way for players to all make the dragon fight and not either lag or be put into overflow.

This was a good thing.

Graveling scavengers in AC Exp.

I’d save it for future items. You could insta-buy the first new legendary on the TP (could be armor or trinkets!)

Awlbiste.1803:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Are we facing each other later today as well? I’m not sure how to check 3/1 matchups and I noticed we don’t have a thread for SBI yet :x

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA Scroll down to “Next Matchup.” Best way to tell who you will be against next reset.

Thank you sir!

[VZ] Valor Zeal is recruiting and we are looking for more friends to join the our increasing numbers to have all sorts of fun with! Very low expectations as long as you are willing to get better. We are located in SBI and we are highly experienced in dungeons, WvW, and some sPvP. All of us are competent and friendly players. If you want to have fun, and roam with one of the best/knowledgable groups around, please let me know!

edit: In addition, we require no vent/raidcall/teamspeak—we usually type to communicate.

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Columba.9730:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jportell.2197:

Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

The problem is, the people who want stealth for thieves nerfed will only settle with stealth being nerfed immensely without agreeing to any compromises or following up on any suggestions. They just want nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. And don’t even know specifically what they want. They just want Anet to nerf nerf nerf. Come on guys, you can use your heads, pose a solution instead of a whine and insult.

Completely untrue. I advocate a small change to one stealth timer, test and see if this prevents permastealthing. Yet the thief apologists act like the NRA and scream that any nerf destroys the class.

Nah, not completely. I actually agree to some of the viewpoints of people with suggestions, I just haven’t seen one by Xsorus except his agreement with phasing, which I’d have to go back and see what phasing even is.

I thought Xsorus was the one who suggested Caltrops and Choking Gas should break stealth?

I’d have to look back, maybe he suggested indirectly when he mentioned that you could do that, but not sure. Then yes, I agree with his point there. I don’t believe you should be able to use anything in stealth without revealing yourself.

Actually, what do you guys think of a more obvious in/out of stealth animation. Like a puff of smoke when you come out of stealth? Not sure if that’d help.

Are we facing each other later today as well? I’m not sure how to check 3/1 matchups and I noticed we don’t have a thread for SBI yet :x

Columba.9730:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jportell.2197:

Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

The problem is, the people who want stealth for thieves nerfed will only settle with stealth being nerfed immensely without agreeing to any compromises or following up on any suggestions. They just want nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. And don’t even know specifically what they want. They just want Anet to nerf nerf nerf. Come on guys, you can use your heads, pose a solution instead of a whine and insult.

Completely untrue. I advocate a small change to one stealth timer, test and see if this prevents permastealthing. Yet the thief apologists act like the NRA and scream that any nerf destroys the class.

Nah, not completely. I actually agree to some of the viewpoints of people with suggestions, I just haven’t seen one by Xsorus except his agreement with phasing, which I’d have to go back and see what phasing even is.

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

jportell.2197:

jkctmc.8754:

Roysten.3456:

jportell.2197:

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.

I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.

Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.

Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.

The problem are in cooldowns. I can reapply conditions between the 16 second (Guardian), and the long 30 second cooldowns. I can apply a lot of Bleeds, Burning, and Poison between those cooldowns. Not to mention the other conditions. The Theif is the only class that doesn’t suffer from the 66% reuse on skills from Chill that the other classes do. That’s why I try to have as close to a permanent uptime on Chill that I can on any of my classes, and the primary reason I dominate Elementalists.

What initiative regen are you running/do you have the +3 initiative trait? jw

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jportell.2197:

Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.

No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.

That’s the cards you’re playing. You’re doing everything in your power to make the thread unconstructive, so you can go cry to the mods to close it. Wow you really should take a look at yourself now.

I’ve said repeatedly I disagree with Xsorus on nerfing the Thief, but I’ll be kitten if I’ll sit back and watch you, and others downplay the strength of the Thief to make your points. There is nothing I dislike more, than people who will lie to get ahead in life, and this makes gaming no exception.

I even pleaded with you to quit the nonsense you’ve been spewing, and try to convince Xsorus that getting buffs for other classes like the Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer is a better course of action. But you’re more inclined to throw around the l2p, or umad nonsense because you can’t construct a reasonable argument.

My only quarrel with you is that you always seem mad, and you don’t make your points clear. You throw insults like no tomorrow and you don’t seem to try to understand my frustration with various things. My arguments are directed towards differnt people because they all have different views. You took my stance against Xsorus and made it into your own battle when it didn’t even direct attention towards you. That’s what pushes my buttons.

And like before, I agree with your method of improvement. I am not trying to downplay the thief. I am just trying to bring it to the level where it really is. It is not a God Tier. But it’s a lot better than most classes.

What a lot of people have showed interest in is nerfing stealth, which I do not agree with because for once we have a game that almost does stealth justice. If we revert back to a transparency/fake stealth or remove it totally, it would just make me sad as to how adventurous gw2 seems to be in the combat design. I don’t mind buffing other classes, or modding other areas to make stealth less potent. But I still want a thief to be able to disappear when he stealhes. We can remove CnD, lower stealth attacks, inc reveal debuff, remove infiltraitor’s arrow, etc. But the mechanic works well and it’s refreshing to see in a game for once.

There you go playing the umad bro card again. Do you know how silly that is? Words generally convey no emotions, and those emotions are generally applied by the reader, rather than the writer, unless the writer is a professional, and knows how to play on the readers emotions. If you’re seeing anger, maybe you’re the one having the issue?

As discussed with another poster, and I agree with him, at this point in the games timeline we should be balancing classes with themselves. First by fixing traits, and weapon choices so that everything is viable to certain builds, and nothing is worthless. Start with classes who have the greatest issues, like the Ranger, Necromancer, and Engineer, and move on to the other classes, yes even the Thief.

For example the Thief P/P is rather worthless, and needs a complete revamp.

Well I’m sorry, I really think our personas just clashed, so it’s my bad for making a big deal about it. Putting personal issues aside, I agree with looking at the weaker points of classes and making them better, I don’t know why flamethower is still kinda useless for an engi and what the scepter is the only ranged weapon for Guard.

jportell.2197:

Stiv.1820:

jportell.2197:

jkctmc.8754:

Roysten.3456:

jportell.2197:

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.

I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.

Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.

Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.

Oh they are still there… but the thing that irks me about it however I do like the torch for condi removal but it doesn’t remove all conditions. other classes just get it built into their heals for the most part… except I think engi’s and maybe necros not sure on that one…

Engi’s can trait to heal cond for each elixer skill (including their healing elixer) they use. Necros have the healing skill “feast…something something” and it removes all conditions and heals more for each condition.

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jportell.2197:

Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.

No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.

That’s the cards you’re playing. You’re doing everything in your power to make the thread unconstructive, so you can go cry to the mods to close it. Wow you really should take a look at yourself now.

I’ve said repeatedly I disagree with Xsorus on nerfing the Thief, but I’ll be kitten if I’ll sit back and watch you, and others downplay the strength of the Thief to make your points. There is nothing I dislike more, than people who will lie to get ahead in life, and this makes gaming no exception.

I even pleaded with you to quit the nonsense you’ve been spewing, and try to convince Xsorus that getting buffs for other classes like the Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer is a better course of action. But you’re more inclined to throw around the l2p, or umad nonsense because you can’t construct a reasonable argument.

My only quarrel with you is that you always seem mad, and you don’t make your points clear. You throw insults like no tomorrow and you don’t seem to try to understand my frustration with various things. My arguments are directed towards differnt people because they all have different views. You took my stance against Xsorus and made it into your own battle when it didn’t even direct attention towards you. That’s what pushes my buttons.

And like before, I agree with your method of improvement. I am not trying to downplay the thief. I am just trying to bring it to the level where it really is. It is not a God Tier. But it’s a lot better than most classes.

What a lot of people have showed interest in is nerfing stealth, which I do not agree with because for once we have a game that almost does stealth justice. If we revert back to a transparency/fake stealth or remove it totally, it would just make me sad as to how adventurous gw2 seems to be in the combat design. I don’t mind buffing other classes, or modding other areas to make stealth less potent. But I still want a thief to be able to disappear when he stealhes. We can remove CnD, lower stealth attacks, inc reveal debuff, remove infiltraitor’s arrow, etc. But the mechanic works well and it’s refreshing to see in a game for once.

jportell.2197:

Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.

No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.

And my suggestions are, as something to satisfy these crybabies.
1) Inc time on revealed debuff to maybe 5 seconds
2) Make all non-stealth skills/utilities cause revealed debuff
3) Make stealth attacks weaker/you take more damage in stealth

And also, I believe GOOD theives tell thier fellow mates how to take them on. I believe BAD thieves are the ones who think they are OP and cannot be taken down no matter what cause they are so good. WHich most of the whiners are doing. They provide no suggestions on how to take on thieves—-it’s just impossible, no mattter what, and it has to be in the perfect scenario or your argument is invalid.

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

Art.9820:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Lol @ thread.

If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.

Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.

The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).

This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.

Heals a little?

I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…

To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.

You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)

you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.

And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision

When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?

He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.

When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.

An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.

I can kill any elementalist solo, on my Ranger. I absolutely dominate them on my Thief, and Mesmer, though could fight them for ever on my Guardian, and no one dies.

There is no way in hell a Elementalist could fight more than two people, if I was there. You’re either lying, or you really do suck at playing the Thief.

You honestly can’t see the benefit of my five man Thief team killing a Zerg, who tries for a camp, and fails because of us? You really can not see the benefit of this? Holy mother of God, take of the blinders, and see the world around you.

A five man group of Thieves can starve an entire map of its most precious resources, and take towers to boot, or even open the wall of a keep for their Zerg to come hit at their leisure. If you think that doesn’t contribute to WvW, I don’t know what to say.

Why are you so angry all the time. Since your first post, you just seem sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo freaking kitten for whatever reason. Screw stealth, take a chill pill as my advice first. Then actually face a good ele. Oh and I’ll play your card, if the ele doesn’t get away after facing a zerg and messing with them, they must REALLY SUCK with an ele. And using a camp npc for distraction isn’t really fighting a zerg head on. Show me a video or this can go on for 12 more pages bud. Oh and fyi take a chill pill if you forgot by the time you read this sentence.

jportell.2197:

Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them

1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way

The problem is, the people who want stealth for thieves nerfed will only settle with stealth being nerfed immensely without agreeing to any compromises or following up on any suggestions. They just want nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. And don’t even know specifically what they want. They just want Anet to nerf nerf nerf. Come on guys, you can use your heads, pose a solution instead of a whine and insult.

jkctmc.8754:

Stiv.1820:

jkctmc.8754:

Art.9820:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Lol @ thread.

If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.

Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.

The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).

This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.

Heals a little?

I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…

To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.

You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)

you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.

And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision

When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?

He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.

When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.

Oh yea.. imagine 5 poison arrows.. oh no….. one condition clear…

I now know why you suck at playing the Thief.

Dude, you are calling everyone who doesn’t play your thief, a bad thief. Seriously stop it and provide better feedback.

jkctmc.8754:

Art.9820:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Xsorus.2507:

Suralin.3947:

Lol @ thread.

If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.

Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.

The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).

This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.

Heals a little?

I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…

To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.

You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)

you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.

And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision

When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?

He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.

When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.

An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.

Xsorus, have you ever tried to learn how to overcome current thieves. If Anet never fixed this in the next decade and you wanted to pvp. What would you do to take down a thief? Or would you just quit or play a thief. Because a real player would learn how to fight a thief on his main—which I assume is your ranger. But seems like you already took the short route and rolled a thief believing it’s stealth mechanic is the best in the game.

Also, I have no idea why you think running away for you is a win. If you ran away, in retrospect, the enemy got away from you as well and they can continue onward to do whatever they want. You may have slowed him down, but he also prevented you from harassing others who you could have potentially killed. I see all your points very close minded and not considering other perspectives. I would enjoy having a better dicussion if you would answer things through the light of opposing perspectives instead of your stubborn “My opinions are right, you guys don’t get it at all, sarcasm sarcasm grin” attitude.

And to support the other side as a decent player, fine, if you want a stealth nerf, at most increase the revealed debuff, or make them more weak/vulnerable in stealth aka take more damage, do less damage with stealthed skills. And any skill/utility move proc the revealed debuff. I do not believe in changing the stealth mechanic though.

Binding blade will find a stealthed thief.

Might have been a coincidence or people just starting leveling there alt necros at the same time.

And can a mod move this to the “Thief and it’s gameplay mechanics” thread please?

hammer.9721:

heres why people have such a hard times with thieves in wvw

they dont know how to spec
they dont dodge
they dont auto face
they stand still

my necro lost to 1 thief out of over a hundred 1v1 fights and im a average player that does everything on my little list but most others who play this game just want to pew pew then run to the boards when they die.

now for all those saying removing stealth wont hurt thieves grab yourself a p/d and dont use stealth in fights and come back here and let people know how you did or better yet record it.

Agreed totally!

Now comes the argument of if you lose to a thief, then they are a bad thief and aren’t doing it right.

Then there comes some other people saying you can trait without stealth so join ‘my playstyle’ when he doesn’t realize so many playstyles would be obsolete if a big nerf came. It’s cool and all that you can build a thief without stealth, but you are going to destroy one of the most popular traitlines because you ‘think’ you are OP.

Fact: So far no patch notes recently have addressed stealth. And why does it have to be stealth? Why not nerf thief dps. Why not buff other classes. I think a lot of people just dislike stealth mechanics because they can’t bother to learn how to play against them but instead choose to play as them and find some baddies to try to prove a moot point.

jportell.2197:

Okay then you are taking away any reliable swiftness durations mesmers get from their runes because (centaur/air) they have the worst mobility in game… Veggie pizza will look into.. but consumables have been nerfed not sure if it will be more or less help. In any case we should not have to rely on veggie pizzas to help with freaking condition removal… I know that mesmer condi removal is meant to be sub par compared to other classes because we are so overpowered (lol) other wise…. But the fact that mesmers have to go sooo heavily into traits to even come close thieves/eles condi removal (the classes with the lowest HP). Can we beat a p/d thief… I imagine so… But we have to build to do nothing but counter P/d thieves… Now if traited our focus can mitigate a lot of the initial damage but since the focus skills have a (somewhat) long cooldown the thief can reopen with the burst later in the fight (3 seconds) and all our initial damage mitigation is gone… I appreciate your input on going to counter this.. but it is not as much of a help as I would hope… Not dismissing it and I will try the veggie pizzas out for sure… But P/d thief is a huge weakness to mesmers.

Blink + focus 4 which quite a few mesmers use in wvw provide the only speed buffs really necessary for them.

Columba.9730:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

I said I wasn’t going to reply anymore, but one thing bugs me, who is most of us and most thieves? I don’t think you can make such a claim, only Anet can.

Most players have thief Alts, lol. Secondly, there are many thieves who have posted that agree with me.

Agree to many, but most != many. lol just a small thing, but a big difference. That’s all I wanted to correct.

<Player looking for a team>
Ingame name: Sky Avalon/Miss Railgun/Ayasteria/Lilia Faiden/Otenkii/Rwoarbear/Kia Tsuki/Aerlume
Main Class / Potential Classes (Incase team requires): Can play all classes, I consider my guard my main but I have the also good results with my thief/engi/mesmer then I am decent with the other professions.
Region: NA (EST)
Practice Times: Anytime after EST 5pm.
Experience: 50 games with each profession (mostly hotjoins)
Other (Anything else that you would like to add): I have all characters at level 80 in PvE so I am familiar with them and really competent with builds and effective skills/traits. I am pretty stingy about changing my builds because so far they work pretty well but if they are detrimental to the team whatsoever I am willing to consider accomodating.

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

I said I wasn’t going to reply anymore, but one thing bugs me, who is most of us and most thieves? I don’t think you can make such a claim, only Anet can.

Although it doesn’t work as well in PvE, in WvW it’s much easier to face people not that I’ve gotten into more serious sPvP play.

Xsorus.2507:

A. they copied most of DAOC, DAOC’s Relics were basically the “Winning” of that game vs match points. They’re copying it even more by doing the Realm Rank system next patch.

B. I’m not sure you’re understanding what i’m saying..I play a thief….I think Stealth is overpowered….I’m commenting on the fact if I could one shot people it would be overpowered, and thus should be changed… just like Stealth should be changed….Even though it has nothing to do with “points” in world vs world. I’m thinking you think I’m complaining about thieves because I died to one or something..which isn’t the case.

C. I’m on SBI mate….As for your post about beating a Thief? I’m sure there are specs out there that can kill most thieves 1v1 (I know i can kill them on my Ranger 1v1 if they’re certain specs and they decide to stay and fight) hell.. the spec i’m using P/D is countered by other thieves using D/P… So not really sure what you’re saying there…If a Thief generally dies in a 1v1 he dies because he screwed up..or because he just didn’t want to run away.

A. I mean, I’ve never played DAOC so I believe you. But given that the realm rank system hasn’t been released yet, my view still stand that balancing around small fights is not important. If it comes out and kills matter on a bigger scale, then sure, let’s consider some more balancing but still don’t think stealth minus culling should be an issue.

B. I think you should use stealth of an example of why it’s overpowered instead of another overpowered example and saying stealth is just like that IMHO. And the 3 seconds of reveal or bursting or shooting or whatever out of stealth is the primetime to strike a thief, and he’s terribly vulnerable. Even more so when he think he’s safe and you use aoes to get him out.

Facts:
1. Theives can only cloak using the stealth heal, blinding powder, and refuge. Using CnD requires hitting the opponent, so if you dodge CnD, it wastes their initiative and they do not cloak unless other utilities are under cooldown.
2. Thief will be knocked out of stealth if he’s hit outside of the shadow refuge circle. Most thieves will have this under utility. Prepare some good cc’s for that scenario because most likely thieves will not have access to stability.
3. If you shoot at a thief before he cloaks, it will still hit him when he cloaks. i.e. Using the rangers multi-shot can finish off a thief if he tries to leave in a jam.

C. I guess we have different views about fighting so unless we agree, this argument will really be looping for more threads. But I’ll leave it at this, I believe that in this type of game. Mess ups count. I don’t believe in ‘the perfect’ game where the thief and opposing party pulls off perfect tactics and one or the other comes out on top. I believe in the average joe which is what wvw makes up of mostly ( I assume). And I believe the average joe makes mistakes. And also, you cannot discount the opposing party being better which causes more ‘mistakes’ to happen for the thief. I don’t believe you can really claim that the best thief can always win a fight otherwise he’s doing it wrong, unless we have a real pvp system where you can fight 1s, no one will ever know. It’s only pseudo scenarios you are thinking of given your experiences. I could easily say, if I do not win as a d/d ele, I’m doing it wrong or such and such and give my ‘legitimate reasons’ but as long as there’s not proof, you could easily say differently til trumpets sound. And another view I have diffeernt from yours is when an enemy is running away from a fight—it’s a victory. If I was on a goodCC class, if they come back, I’ll keep on fighting them until they mess up because from ‘my’ experiences, I never die on a class (non-thief) against thieves.

Anyways, I hope there’s a compromise for whatever you are looking for, just wanted to provide some feedback on the opposing side of a stealth nerf.

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

edit

By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….

I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.

I’ve never played WoW. -_- Nor will I ever. I play mostly fighting games, and trust me when I say, I know what freaking balance is. Stealth is not a big issue. And the only thing I’m trying to convey is that WvW is not catered for PvPers so don’t expect it to be totally PvP balanced. Apparently, all you care about is trying to see WvW as a DAOC potential or whatever the heck that is. It’s not, killing people does matter, but not the way you are describing, which is small petty fights.

And quit twisting my words around. Balance is important, but stealth is not imbalanced. It’s more potent due to culling which will be attempted to be addressed in March. You are directing balance towards a huge nerf to theives when it isn’t even a class issue.

WvW is designed after DAOC, and in DAOC class balance was just as important as it is here…Cause Class Balance is always important when you consider PvP in a game.

If I could one shot people, and escape freely, You’d consider that a problem…Because it would be broken…

Also this culling excuse you guys keep using it, Let me just say, That’s not going to fly in a month when they remove Culling, so i suggest you start working up another excuse..Because I have a thief, I fight thieves….I know what BS that excuse is..

By the way, I love that you believe WvW is not catered to PvPers

They should advertise that

Rofl..

They took the idea of DAOC, but obviously it has it’s own unique qualities, in so many ways. I’ve never played DAOC, but I am just going to jump the gun and say that GW2’s gameplay is different so the PvP balancing in DAOC can’t apply to GW2, unless you literally had all the GW2 mechanics point by point in that game. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges when talking about solutions.

My view is anything goes in open world, so don’t be off guard or don’t be so down when it happens. If you get one-shotted, you have to figure out why. Was it because your traits/equipment were low or all zerk? Was it because the class was in fact overpowered? Was it avoidable? Could you have stunbroken or invulnerable or distort out? Can you do anything about it? —- You aren’t asking those questions first nor do you give examples so I find your passion for thief nerfing moot. But seriously what are we talking about here? Stealth or being one-shotted or both? Make your point clear and quiting bringing other possible issues into it.

I am not making an excuse when I mention culling. Obviously it’s an issue. If you want to say culling isn’t an issue then come guest to SBI and let’s duke it out in the Mists where it isn’t. Choose a thief, and I will do my best to show you how any class other than thief can still handle them with whatever game tactic you choose with him. And if I beat you with at least one of them consistently, go to a corner and starting using your brain before coming here with sarcastic/know-it-all/inconsistent comments.

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

A. Classes balances happens for who knows what reason, sPvP, PvE, maybe WvW but doubt that WvW 1v1s is where they make their real decisions. The only major thing that really did for WvW was take out annoying consumables and put a CD on crit chance consumables.

B. If you play poker, and you made a meta-game where whoever had the most 7s that game was the victor, you’d still lose because that’s not what the game is about. If you play a tower defense game and all you cared about was getting kills and not protecting the towers, you would lose the game. If you hop onto WvW and kill people and fail to take camps, you lost the game. Class balance or not, it doesn’t affect the type of game at hand.

C. Have you not considered that most people who WvW considers taking keeps, getting points as having fun? There are quite a number of people/guilds who actually take it seriously. I still see zergs or mini groups of them roaming about trying to take points because they still care to fight. I’m sorry that you don’t feel that way—but seriously don’t queue up for WvW if you aren’t going to actually play the WvW game. Commanders would hate people like you unless you are scouting at the least.

You would probably see more posters in this thread if it actually mattered, but it’s just you and few others really complaining, while oZii and I are at least trying to aid you if coming to this easy reckoning that maybe class balance doesn’t matter when

1. You can use food buffs
2. There is no lvl req to enter WvW
3. You can run into any x number of people at anytime. 1v1s are not a gurantee
4. Killing people does not add to points
5. There is not equipment req to enter Wvw (you can run in all whites) heck, as a thief, even if you wreck 10 people and get away with it, you don’t even know if they have any exotic gear whatsoever.
6. Escaping a battle does nothing in WvW, it just doesn’t satisfy your own self-fish desire to kill them
7. You have access to banner buffs/outmanned buffs/gem buffs

When did class balance = thieves nerfed. I agree with buffing other classes maybe. But it seems very childish to say “Oh yeah, I run x/x and trait x/x/x/x/x and can pwn class y with y/y even if he’s bunker”—-“Nuh uh, I can beat you blah blah blah” We will never know unless they open up a real deathmatch pvp realm which WvW is NOT. No matter what you say, that’s not what it is. Anet doesn’t have to cater to people who seriously needs to just L2P or man up.

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

edit

By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….

I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.

I’ve never played WoW. -_- Nor will I ever. I play mostly fighting games, and trust me when I say, I know what freaking balance is. Stealth is not a big issue. And the only thing I’m trying to convey is that WvW is not catered for PvPers so don’t expect it to be totally PvP balanced. Apparently, all you care about is trying to see WvW as a DAOC potential or whatever the heck that is. It’s not, killing people does matter, but not the way you are describing, which is small petty fights.

And quit twisting my words around. Balance is important, but stealth is not imbalanced. It’s more potent due to culling which will be attempted to be addressed in March. You are directing balance towards a huge nerf to theives when it isn’t even a class issue.

edit there’s a huge difference between crying for class balance and just hating on thieves because you (yourself) can’t fight against one with a differing class

Just don’t fuse them until it’s fixed. Which won’t be awhile so you could probably sell 1 and remake.

But hey, there’s a march patch that’s going to supposedly fix culling. Let’s continue our talk then and see if you still have problems with thieves.

Xsorus.2507:

A. Classes aren’t balanced in WvW, that’s why they continue to change them..even as recently as 2 days ago.

B. The scenario presented in this thread? What scenario? you made the video about me not defending the camp from being taken…You made the video about me not asking people to come zerg the already out gunned side..I never said anything about the Supply camp up until that point..I made the video to show how I can bloody stealth over and over again and kill multiple enemies while escaping..Just because your argument didn’t hold wait about Class balance, you can’t go back and change your original complaint on the video. You entire excuse for that has been “Well Class balance doesn’t matter cause you couldn’t stop them from taking a camp”

C. The Goal of the game? The Goal of the Game Mode is to have fun….We were going to make it about points then the people on TC/Devona’s shouldn’t even both playing right now because they’re to far behind to catch up in points…So I guess they wont’ be out there when I log in.

D. The fact that you don’t understand why most people got upset is rather funny..People didn’t get upset because they were losing their rankings..They got upset because the matches were almost balanced out, and all the ranking reset would of done would be putting high population servers against low population servers for a good ole thrashing…If they’d done it at the start..It would of been fine, but they were waiting till the last minute to do it when the issue was almost fixed.

A. Classes balances happens for who knows what reason, sPvP, PvE, maybe WvW but doubt that WvW 1v1s is where they make their real decisions. The only major thing that really did for WvW was take out annoying consumables and put a CD on crit chance consumables.

B. If you play poker, and you made a meta-game where whoever had the most 7s that game was the victor, you’d still lose because that’s not what the game is about. If you play a tower defense game and all you cared about was getting kills and not protecting the towers, you would lose the game. If you hop onto WvW and kill people and fail to take camps, you lost the game. Class balance or not, it doesn’t affect the type of game at hand.

C. Have you not considered that most people who WvW considers taking keeps, getting points as having fun? There are quite a number of people/guilds who actually take it seriously. I still see zergs or mini groups of them roaming about trying to take points because they still care to fight. I’m sorry that you don’t feel that way—but seriously don’t queue up for WvW if you aren’t going to actually play the WvW game. Commanders would hate people like you unless you are scouting at the least.

You would probably see more posters in this thread if it actually mattered, but it’s just you and few others really complaining, while oZii and I are at least trying to aid you if coming to this easy reckoning that maybe class balance doesn’t matter when

1. You can use food buffs
2. There is no lvl req to enter WvW
3. You can run into any x number of people at anytime. 1v1s are not a gurantee
4. Killing people does not add to points
5. There is not equipment req to enter Wvw (you can run in all whites) heck, as a thief, even if you wreck 10 people and get away with it, you don’t even know if they have any exotic gear whatsoever.
6. Escaping a battle does nothing in WvW, it just doesn’t satisfy your own self-fish desire to kill them
7. You have access to banner buffs/outmanned buffs/gem buffs

When did class balance = thieves nerfed. I agree with buffing other classes maybe. But it seems very childish to say “Oh yeah, I run x/x and trait x/x/x/x/x and can pwn class y with y/y even if he’s bunker”—-“Nuh uh, I can beat you blah blah blah” We will never know unless they open up a real deathmatch pvp realm which WvW is NOT. No matter what you say, that’s not what it is. Anet doesn’t have to cater to people who seriously needs to just L2P or man up.

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve not only soloed Supply camps on my thief, but Towers…

If you think Thieves are somehow weak in this department, you’re mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOogi5r4x68

Give it a bit, and it’ll pop up.

This is me solo killing the champion at the keep, I’d already killed the guards before I bothered to record.

It’s not very hard to do this either….Same method as players, Poison field the mobs and drop caltrops…

I mean…no one was there. I don’t see your point.

jkctmc.8754:

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

I have never, nor will I ever say any class is OP, in any game. Learn to read.

All I’m saying is this. If you’re dying as a Thief, enough that you believe other classes don’t need some kind of buff, you need to learn how to play. I have to be both tired, and drunk to die on my Thief, even then, I rarely ever die.

Quit bringing up sPvP in a WvW forums. No one cares about that carebear system.

For starters, sPvP is the illusion of balance, so saying it is epitome of balance only ruins your argument. You are correct, the current format is a zerg vs zerg format. Grats, you have figured it out man. You’re da man. Wish I had thought of it. I mean after DAoC, War, and so on, who would have thought to come up with such an idea?

I could easily take 20 Thieves, and catpure points, as easy as any other group made up of a scattering of classes. Hell, I take keeps/towers in my Karma train runs with people levels 1-80, when everyone is leveling alts. Doing points is easy, and anyone can do it. I’m not sure why you’re even going there, but ok.

You can not judge a class in sPvP, in regards to WvW. Quit even suggesting it. It’s not even worth discussing it.

As for classes needing buffed, pointing to OP classes, that is a very odd way to look at things. I don’t see any class as OP, but see a lot of bugs that need fixed, and classes like the Engineer, and Ranger needing buffs. Why is that so hard to understand?

Agree to disagree, but now I finally see your main point—and it’s not hard to understand, you just came into this forum assumed a lot of things with quite a bad attitude and making it very ambiguous that all you wanted was some class fixes/buffs to bring their game up. If all you wanted was class buffs, make it clear in your first post, not about how you rock with thief and apparently I suck with thief when I made no mention that I even played thief. Bad attitudes can create even worse attitudes from the replying party, please take that lesson when you post next time.

I know capturing points is easy, but that’s really what WvW is all about and that’s why actual fighting is pointless. I am not against buffs/fixes for classes, but nerfing a thief is what I am against (I don’t even play a thief outside PvE!) because they are getting so much hate for L2P issues or classes lacking issues which should be aimed towards individual classes getting buffs so they fix those classes overall in PvP and PvE. So yes, we’ve been on the same page since the beginning if that’s what you wanted, nothing more to discuss because our viewpoints won’t change much.

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

This is the WvW forums, NOT the nerfed, and dumbed down state sPvP is. Why would you even bring up the boring aspect of sPvP, in the WvW forums?

You act as if you know what WvW is about—which obviously you don’t. I said if you really want to say a class is OP, play in sPvP where the class actually matters—not where the equipment, food buffs, culling, huge maps, etc come into play.

No matter how much you want to make WvW a balanced pvp-zone, it’s not going to be unless Anet puts a lvl req on WvW and an equipment req. And frankly, a lot of people in WvW do not know how to fight as mentioned by some others. Most of them really suck at fighting and kudos to you for owning them.

Seriously guys, L2P. and for you jkctmc, get over yourself.

I have never, nor will I ever say any class is OP, in any game. Learn to read.

All I’m saying is this. If you’re dying as a Thief, enough that you believe other classes don’t need some kind of buff, you need to learn how to play. I have to be both tired, and drunk to die on my Thief, even then, I rarely ever die.

Quit bringing up sPvP in a WvW forums. No one cares about that carebear system.

Why would other classes need a buff and not the thief, if the class wasn’t OP? Why is thief not OP if you can literally wreck anyone unless you are tired or drunk? Are you sure you aren’t inebriated currently? And way to ignore my other points.

Don’t talk about class balancing when you are playing a game field that isn’t balanced. sPvP does it a lot better than WvW (newsflash). And regardless if you hate sPvP or not, the way it sets up armor/equipment/stats is more equal than WvW will ever be. If you really want to know which class needs a buff you need to play them on an equal playing field. I’ll take buffs any day just for the sake of buffs, but not because Thief is at a better state than any other class (because it’s not)

A server of many really good thieves can still not stop a good WvW servers from stomping points and winning. What part of that do you not understand. Quit bringing deathmatches into WvW forum. This is about capturing points, learn to play that game first.

Korgov.7645:

Mysteries.3659:

I’m a thief, a good one at that. I constantly have new thieves asking me for advice on builds for WvW. That being said, bunker builds aren’t killable for me. Obviously I can get away because I don’t know of a single bunker build that can burst down all my health while I’m stealthing and healing and stunning and rolling. But I can’t kill them. Not the bunker ranger, not the toughness gs warriors, and definitely not the bunker guardian. It really is a L2P thing.

So you cannot kill a bunker warrior, ranger or guardian. But they cannot kill you either.

As the fight drags along it is likely one of you gets allies helping. If he gets allies, you escape the fight. If you get allies, he dies.

And what about all the other builds and professions? Would their LP2 thing equal to deleting their character and creating a bunker guardian instead?

Learn how to WvW right. If you are taking a camp, and he runs. take the camp. Force the guy to get his friends and retake the camp wasting zerg time while you get allies and get a new camp or keep. A real WvWer isn’t going to stand there and wait for the thief to come back. Learn to WvW or quit wasting queue space for petty fights.

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

This is the WvW forums, NOT the nerfed, and dumbed down state sPvP is. Why would you even bring up the boring aspect of sPvP, in the WvW forums?

You act as if you know what WvW is about—which obviously you don’t. I said if you really want to say a class is OP, play in sPvP where the class actually matters—not where the equipment, food buffs, culling, huge maps, etc come into play.

No matter how much you want to make WvW a balanced pvp-zone, it’s not going to be unless Anet puts a lvl req on WvW and an equipment req. And frankly, a lot of people in WvW do not know how to fight as mentioned by some others. Most of them really suck at fighting and kudos to you for owning them.

Seriously guys, L2P. and for you jkctmc, get over yourself.

Xsorus.2507:

I’m still liking the idea of “phasing” of the thief, kind of like Dodge… but not Dodge.

I would like to add a suggestion of seeing damage output pop up when you hit them in stealth, so you have some sort of feedback. Ofc leave the condition damage out because that would let them know their exact location and defeat the purpose of stealth. But having some sort of feedback is good.

killimandros.5087:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

So, your point here is that with an already overpowered class, you can one vs one anyone? I must say that “to prove a point”thingy rather shows how unbalanced it is than not, you know unless hes a thief himself, you will either win or draw…Ye man-pro, go show them

Jumping the gun, and he made claims about a s/p thief if you read. I meant 1v1ing with any class, it doesn’t have to be thief. I have all professions at lvl80 thank you. lol.

On your other post, I’m sorry to say, but that’s what WvW is about. If you don’t like the effects of culling, don’t play til it’s fixed. If you don’t like thief, then there has to be really a concrete case where they are obviously OP. As far as I know, they are good, really good. But they aren’t the best. D/d eles by far are one of the strongest in pvp from most posts. Most posts about thieves are wvw related and ganking/caught off guard related, which is really a L2P issue sad to say as much as I dislike hearing it.

Also, stick to one thing or another, you keep on hinting how much dislike you have with thieves especially and how OP they are but you talk about culling as the problem. Thieves are not OP. Culling is OP. Get that straight.

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

@oZii, he makes a great point in what I was trying to tell these very oblvious people.

The game type we are talking about is capture the point—I am pretty sure Anet knew what they were doing when they made stealth and available feature in this game type. Stealth means you can get away it doesn’t make you impossible to kill—especially if you are in a zerg or decent group. Do you really expect to go to war in the open battlefield and not get sniped? Or let alone (fantasy-wise) get assassinated? Run in a group, capture points.

Stealth has very little to no affect in gaining major points for WvW. And that’s why it’s not imbalanced in WvW. Balance should only be necessary if it actually affects winning or losing the game guys. -_- But a stealthed thief annoying a group and killing one or two guys doesn’t give you more points than a small group holding off a thief while killing a camp veteran.

And also I’m surprised no one is manning up to ask what they can do to which they cannot see. Because there are ways to live against these unseeable things and prevent them from recloaking.

His point is silly, Class Balance is needed in PvP, even if its just for “points”

I could of easily called for reinforcements for an already out gunned side to get screwed over..

We have over 80k points over that team already…

I think you are simplfying WvW though. A lot of factors go into the thieves advantages, it’s not a balance issue. Let’s say WvW was a map of at most 3000 units. Would finding a thief and killing him be bad? Prob not. WvW is so huge, the thief could use a number of areas as a window to escape. That’s one advantage.

The issue with culling, that’s another advantage. All this is present because WvW is a huge warring world, with many people there. The game type is making the thief better than he normally is (if not decent already). So balancing a class due to it’s effectiveness by external factors, not really the class itself is not a good move on a dev part.

The only really good suggestion for this fix is to load the name tags before the model, hopefully eliminating total blindness when they thief is supposed to be out of cloak.

And asking to change WvW’s game type is really out of the question. So it’s best to just play the game of coordination, defending keeps, and capturing points, not the mini-game of deatmatches.

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

@oZii, he makes a great point in what I was trying to tell these very oblvious people.

The game type we are talking about is capture the point—I am pretty sure Anet knew what they were doing when they made stealth and available feature in this game type. Stealth means you can get away it doesn’t make you impossible to kill—especially if you are in a zerg or decent group. Do you really expect to go to war in the open battlefield and not get sniped? Or let alone (fantasy-wise) get assassinated? Run in a group, capture points.

Stealth has very little to no affect in gaining major points for WvW. And that’s why it’s not imbalanced in WvW. Balance should only be necessary if it actually affects winning or losing the game guys. -_- But a stealthed thief annoying a group and killing one or two guys doesn’t give you more points than a small group holding off a thief while killing a camp veteran.

And also I’m surprised no one is manning up to ask what they can do to which they cannot see. Because there are ways to live against these unseeable things and prevent them from recloaking.

I would like to start detailed thread on class balancing—what would you do if you had control over the balancing of spvp?

If you want a nerf, please use various examples on why it is OP (overpowered), instead of just calling it OP only because you lost. If you want a buff, consider what it would not be OP if it was added.

Also I think everyone is overreacting. Influence can be bought with gold. Yes it’s more expensive on the individual members of the guild but let’s face it, you can’t expect to have a lot of money if you have a small guild unless they are exceptional in making money. Same with influence. Small guilds won’t die off, you will just have access to it later. It’s not going to kill you to just have access to it after the larger guilds do. And you can always recruit, invite friends, and make money ya kno.

Edit: And to add, I’m in a guild of 10 active members, and we are stoked to do it when we can.

I agree to some missions requiring larger guilds. But some missions shouldn’t. In my honest opinion, it should favor larger guilds than smaller but not in everything. Because I don’t think a guild of 4-5 people would be hired to protect from an invasion. Bounty—sure.

Ah I got it now. That was a stressful 5 minutes.

You did well for the time you were very useful, now I don’t know why I’d ever use you.

•Mesmer Portals can no longer be interacted with when there is an obstruction between them and the player.

Edit: false alarm, only fixes an exploit with people stuck in objects likes walls/doors. you can still port people in jps! wooo