Guild Wars 2

Skyline Crash.6254:

Asmodal.6489:

1. I think this is a problem of the “blade fan”. however since they pierce and are able to produce 9 hits in total I would say this is an exceptable downside.

2. #2 already has no cast time. making it truly instant could be interesting however I do not see a lof of additional uses besides with torch off hand.

3. #3 is more of a defensive skill (could be better yes). a dps loss is not so much of a problem if the defensiv effect would be better (more range + homing). removing the root would still be good. looking at all the new skills that are getting introduced a rooting effect on a skill is only valid if the effect is very strong.

What would help this skill more then anything is an actual block effect and not an absorb.

personally i feel that sword became more of a condi weapon due to its rapidly application of passiv F2. it will be interesting with DH and supreme justice since it will let you stick to a cripple target pretty kitten efficently.

9 hits in total? How so? To bosses or something?

3 piercing projectiles, each hitting 3 targets max.

Black Box.9312:

1. Yes, having cripple access outside of DH matters a lot because DH will make up at most 1/3 of a build. So that leaves 2/3 of your build that doesn’t get to take advantage of anything having to do with cripple. I want things that will work with all of my build, not just a piece of it. When you have one ability that can only provide small, short duration stacks of cripple, you don’t really have much of an opportunity to capitalize on it. Can you use it with cripple applied by other classes? Yes, but Guardian players are clearly looking for more self-sufficiency, and this is not how you go about providing self-sufficiency. Not even close.

DH provides a kitten ton of cripple within the same trait as the modifier alone. Dulled senses gives you access to cripple outside of in terms of skills and utilities. I showed you before how many knockbacks we have. I will not do it again. What you are basically saying is that you do not want anything in the elite spec that has not a inter-trait mechanic to all other available traitlines. You argument is so dumb I cant even begin to take it apart. its like saying valor is a kitten traitline because it leaves me with 2/3 traitlines that do not cater to meditations.

Black Box.9312:

2. The idea with a burst build is to optimize your burst potential. Having 2 damage modifiers but only being able to use one at a time is a waste because you can’t take advantage of any sort of window of opportunity when both of them will be active. You might as well just have one damage modifier and be done with it.

The window of opportunity is 6 seconds. jesus. Your argument is only valid if you asume that you will not be able to cripple without zealots aggression. how you can say that it is valuable in group play and then right after how its not valuable is beyond me.

Black Box.9312:

3. Meditations weren’t buffed, other than Litany (and arguably the addition of Smiter’s Boon). The traits involving them were condensed, but every single ability that Monk’s Focus now gives was already previously existent somewhere else in the old Valor line. We already had fury, and fury doesn’t stack in intensity with fury, so I don’t really know what your point is there. As for quickness, yeah, you get quickness, but it’s at the cost of taking FMW instead of RF, which for a Medi Guard is a pretty significant tradeoff. I’d rather have the extra survivability, honestly.

the point is we have mor fury uptime now which is a dps increase. what else would be the point? Combinig all medi traits into one and freeing two trait slots is a substantial buff to me.
Surviveability is really not the issue if we are talking about damage capabilities of a guard. But I gues all of a sudden the big picture is more relevant when it enforces you point of view.

Black Box.9312:

4. You completely glossed over the part where I specifically mentioned that it was more than just a 3% damage nerf; I recommend that you re-read that part.

I read that very well and understood that any argument that I made is irrelevant to your opinion because you had a build once that used a trait no one else did and that you sufferd a hugh damage nerf of not 3% but 13%.

Black Box.9312:

5. I also explained in rather acute detail how all of the nerfs we received actually took a rather large, singular hit on our offensive potential. If you want to call that nitpicking, that’s okay, but in that case I suggest you pick up a dictionary and do some studying tonight.

yes and you have been told that its not a large singular hit and that if you look at the class at a whole we have recieved additional damage options across all weapon sets after the trait revamp due to changes in many traits and utilites and burn damage. The real question is if these addition make up for YOUR 13% damage modifier nerfs and if they do not for ho much of it. If you do not want the math you can ask yourself if you hit harder then before the revamp. A question which I can answer with a definitiv yes.

But I guess its really easier to look at single trait number and say “well that is less then before, we got kittened”.

Killyox.3950:

Asmodal.6489:

its not really rng. last in first out. I do get what you are saying though. there is so much condi flying around and I get the feeling that each class has so much personal condi clear that they do not need us as much as before.

yet pure of voice can be very strong. vurn turns into protection, chill into resistence, burn into aegis. I would love to have means to target those directly.

Isn’t it how it used to be? Last in first out? I believe they changed to random already quite some time ago.

really? if so I missed that completely

Sube Dai.8496:

It’s seriously weak now. Great way to throw 10+ stacks of burn on yourself.

It needs resistance.

that would be awsome.

SyS should get a buff. The boons should always be at 10 secs, the resistance can stay at 5 secs. that would encourage smart play. allies can help out the guardian to get the condis off in the given time frame.

Black Box.9312:

Yes, and how much cripple access does a Guardian have? Oh right, none. Outside of taking DH and keeping your VoJ on passive, but then OH WAIT you can’t get the damage bonus from Big Game Hunter! BRAVO, bravo. Well played, Anet.

what the kitten does it matter if we have access to cripple outside DH if the damage modifier for it sits in DH? that argument doesnt even make sense. Is big game Hunter a waste for steady dps – yes. is it for a 6 second burst? to rack up 25 stacks of vurnability fast to increase overall self and group dps – no.

Black Box.9312:

Also, with the new Radiance you can have a total of 10% more critical chance than was previously possible. But only while burning is up. Awesome. So much better than losing raw damage.

yes because in the meatime we did not get meditations buffed and/or access to haste and a 50%+ fury uptime increase overall. all these things do not matter when I look at a specific trait and cry about a 3% damage nerf.

just picking on single issues and not putting them in perspective as a whole is really easy. yes it sucks that they keep making decisions that completely cater to keeping F2 passiv. so what? rahter then complaining about that I would argue for an increased effect on the active. make it hurt so people see a benefit of sacrificing the passiv.

its not really rng. last in first out. I do get what you are saying though. there is so much condi flying around and I get the feeling that each class has so much personal condi clear that they do not need us as much as before.

yet pure of voice can be very strong. vurn turns into protection, chill into resistence, burn into aegis. I would love to have means to target those directly.

1. I think this is a problem of the “blade fan”. however since they pierce and are able to produce 9 hits in total I would say this is an exceptable downside.

2. #2 already has no cast time. making it truly instant could be interesting however I do not see a lof of additional uses besides with torch off hand.

3. #3 is more of a defensive skill (could be better yes). a dps loss is not so much of a problem if the defensiv effect would be better (more range + homing). removing the root would still be good. looking at all the new skills that are getting introduced a rooting effect on a skill is only valid if the effect is very strong.

What would help this skill more then anything is an actual block effect and not an absorb.

personally i feel that sword became more of a condi weapon due to its rapidly application of passiv F2. it will be interesting with DH and supreme justice since it will let you stick to a cripple target pretty kitten efficently.

Black Box.9312:

DPS builds are not going to give up Fiery Wrath for Pure of Sight.

I hope you mean zealots aggression.

again its geat that you only shine hte light at things that matter to you. everything was better in the old days, right?. Traits that no one used are now relevant because you had them in a build.

you only see the glass half empty. it is a fact that you can take the radiance traitline and have higher overall crit chance with any wepaon now then before the changes. but you just focus on the sword and call it a hard nerf.

there are lots of others example in you post just along this line. taht does not mean they are invalid. and ned to be looked at. but overall I feel Guardian is now a lot more powerful then before. stronger then others? maybe not.

engis hammer is so rediculous over powered and tied in an elite spec with even further rediculous traits. I think it will be hard to justify any improvement.

The AA is mocking any exisiting weapon. Compare what it does to Guardian GS. or empowering might. A master tier trait.

three targets and rune of strength and you be able to maintian 25 stacks yourself simply by slotting this weapon. 750power. and you want more damage on the AA.
on a weapon that has a tripple leap finisher, eades for three seconds and can heal for 3.5k in water field on a frigging 10 second CD that can grant stability for 3 secs

This gotta be a joke.

Hi,

I think you should consider changing you stats. you apply a lot of burn, take burn enhancing traits but you have like zero condi damage in you set up.

Zealous scepter is an okay trait if you build for many procs. In this build it will leave you with 4-5 stacks max which is 150 power and condi damage. add in you sigil you barely scratched bexond 500 condi damage. so imo this build has not yet decided what it wants to be.

swpping out radiance for virtues will increase you damage by a possible 28% since you are running SYS and retreat. on top you get good condi cleanse and stability as well as another stunbreaker.

The other option is to go full sinister toss zeal and go for virtues for permeating wrath and supreme justice.

Both options will increase you damage while sacreficing very little.

Zeal honor Virtues with full sinsiter works as well. especially if you really want Zealous scepter. Supereme justice will up stacks to about 6-9.

all in all i would say ditch the fire at this point. If you want shouts with strong might application maybe this will suite you better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRArf5dl8Ah+dYpQwWIQQEH4DVtACgzF/C7wSk3wPcEB-TBCBwAVOJAGV+Vb/BJKBxp+DgnAQK9DJM/RKgAnZB-e

the might stackign however is totally wasted in dungeons since you probably get that from somewhere else with a lot less invest.

so the burn alternative:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRArf5dl8Ah+dYpQwWIQQEHBEFuDShcwGAPwbmTwGcCB-TxhFABAcGACW9HO2fYYlf8qfAhHCgfKBJFwdztA-e

this will deal good damage and be quite supporty

Well there is no denying that. It has no place in pvp at the moment. I feel that it is too fast paced and does not offer crucial abilities like stun breaks, cleanse which all come out weaker if you stroll away from the traitlines that provide it.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Asmodal.6489:

I do not think we need a new thread for this but I still feel the need to point out that others have made similar points as you but with a lot less of the subjectiv tonality of yours.

Infact with the announced rework many feel that LB might become a good additon – some more tweaks are definitely needed some traits are questionable in mechanic and placement but numerous great ideas have been tossed around to tackle those.

The “Ghostweapons” are a whole different thing. Yes they are underwhelming in any game mode but open world PvE where basically anything goes.

All in all the DH as a result at the moment does not qualify for an “awful job”. The road to it could have definitely be better planned as it feels liek they had a rough idea of what it should be but got sidetracked a lot.

It’ll be officially awful if the spec is only used because we are forced to use it in certain raids for some arbitrary reason.

So far it seems like crap. I feel like warriors burn bow was meant for us, but was already given to them.

when you say seems does this mean you havent actually played it?

I played a good lot with them yesterday in open world pve to test some stuff and took them to unranked pvp and did quite well.

I think OPs ideas are all good I think the blind would be a little much and the CD mechanic would make the shield quite strong. The current Weapons do need some tweaks before we go to the general mechanic.

What they need:
What I found in both scenarios was infact that spiritweapons need to be cast instant or lowered to 1/2 second at least. The weapons already have a delay and a very slow hit rate. getting them out takes 1 1/2 seconds which is horrid.

if you have a target Sword + hammer should spawn with the command skill at the targets location when in range.

In addition their hits should also count twords F1 sprocs. They do not at the moment which is weird since they trigger sigils. Note that this would be a hugeh thin in Permeating wrath builds and probably OP as hell. I expect a burn nerf however so it might be working out then.

Manging their durations is also a big issues because in pvp for example I precast them when I see an enemy closing in. Often enough he decided to move to a different point which basically ment you wasted a utility for nothing.

I think SW will also need more synergy. With DH it will be interesting since the F2 will give you serious means to protect them from damage while they dish out and it would be a great way to make use of Defenders Dogma.

Greatsword needs to blink to target on command. The animation is very slow and hard to place. The blink would actually make them work and increase the “on target” time. Sometimes its anyoing when 25% of the time they are out is spent for running to the target.

The bow needs a bouncing attack like focus. The command should create a waterfield and/or function like eles healing rain.

The GM should not be a contender to shattered Aegis. I would merge these two GMs – I feel Aegis is a spirit weapon somehwo anyways. Shattered Aegis has so much potetial to work great with SW. It multiplies the effect in solo play.

What they do already pretty good:

If you haste them they can apply 4 fairly long lasting burn stacks per weapon very effectively. wait for rotation to end and command right after.

The Hammer command and chain is glorious with Purging flames. knock down > chain 1+2 > cast purging flames > knock the enemy back > leaving them with 10 stacks. This worked very well in spvp with Scepter #3+#2. (most people do not know what the hammer will do.

They wreck normal mobs with a sinsiter build.

The can crit for 2k damage easily in a sinsiter build

Most of the suggetion are QoL Changes that would make them even more fun to play with.

I do not think we need a new thread for this but I still feel the need to point out that others have made similar points as you but with a lot less of the subjectiv tonality of yours.

Infact with the announced rework many feel that LB might become a good additon – some more tweaks are definitely needed some traits are questionable in mechanic and placement but numerous great ideas have been tossed around to tackle those.

The “Ghostweapons” are a whole different thing. Yes they are underwhelming in any game mode but open world PvE where basically anything goes.

All in all the DH as a result at the moment does not qualify for an “awful job”. The road to it could have definitely be better planned as it feels liek they had a rough idea of what it should be but got sidetracked a lot.

Darknicrofia.2604:

not since the glacial heart nerf

the nerf being that was moved to virtues line and has AR as a contender. IF you menage to cleanse conditon a different way it actually got buffed.

I think you are on the wrong track. the Traits should interact with the core mechanic and the new twist the Elite specialisation brings. not with the weapon. that it actually the biggest gripe for most. yes have two or three traits that will boost bow and traps but not more.

yes its possible. it will not work in pvp though.

I tinkered with that myself (valor instead of DH). the build has 100% chill duration. But it is basically a fun build. you do not pump out enough chill to be relevant in WvWvW.

however i might give the idea another try with DH coming up.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJASSnkIClDhVDBmCB8Dhl4BrKA8AqXy/vC4BMLF9kmRA-T1hBABAcJAsS53d6C4Z/hIeCATq+TZKBJFwdDrA-w

I will probably not go for a 1chill duration or extra application but I think there might be a nice burst combo that use the f2 offensively.

> activate f2 >
> Activate JI >
> Activate Smite conditions if needed >
> Apply three aoe damage hits, apply 3+ stacks of burn, immob., vurnability, cripple, glacial heart > chill (75% chance), another aoe damage
> activate mighty blow
> wack away

it is a nice combo to really pin someone down. they basically have to pull a cleanse all utility or invurnability. as every on of our bursts it can be completely outplayed and you sacrafice basically everything defensive wise.

Ele is hard. I am able to kill them with my Condi bild. Once. After they know whats coming its not possible anymore. basically a good elel can play point defense and sit there forever if you do not 3vs1 him quickly.

Nike.2631:

Rashagar.8349:

Fashion Mage.3712:

- Which new weapon should it allow access to?

Main hand focus, so you can dual-wield books! =D

As cute as that sounds it won’t happen. Main hand and off-hand-only weapons are priced differently at vendor so they’re not gonna let you use an off-hand-only in the main hand.

yes because changing that is the hardest part when creating an elite specialisation

ArchonWing.9480:

I’m not really sure why meditation builds would be needed for pve…

In Living story or SW, The healing’s alright, but in pve that’s not really the main priority because sustain damage is rarely what kills you, plus medis wouldn’t give any support in SW. In dungeons they give 0 group support and sustain is even more useless in it.

OP did not ask for a full glass build but soemthing that gets her through LS alive. For somebody that has that problem Medis are the best shot at doing so. So all you arguments are correct but this is the wrong place for them.

Saiyan.1704:

I am using Guard runes.
You do get 2 stacks per block per second.

O.o?

hmm could have sworn the build had Balthazar runes when I first clicked it.

DeWolfe.2174:

Sigfodr.9576:

For WvW reta is the main reason ele’s dont run full zerker, the reta hurt when you use meteor shower.

Actually, many Ele’s run full zerk in WvW. The Retal damage that is returned to you when attacking a target is based on the source of the retal buff, not your own. You target may even be full condi and yet hit you with a very powerful retaliation, if the retal was given by a high power build.

I think he ment that the retaliation damage is – whoever it is coming from – hurts to frequently to risk full zerker because it gives a too low health pool.

Black Box.9312:

You missed my point entirely. Zeal had a pretty easily accessible +10% damage modifier, but it was deemed “too powerful”, so it got the nerfbat. Meanwhile, they’re trying to make the DH traitline look more appealing by putting some of our lost damage there instead.

It’s not working, and people like me are kittened off that they’d do something so obnoxious. Just ask any Thief player.

So I missed you point entirely from this …

Black Box.9312:

Zeal did.

But then lol nerfed.

Next time maybe make a point?

So now that you have actually made one. I think we getting to the root of the problem. You think that a 3% damage nerf to an easy 10% damage modifer is a scheme to make a
DH look better which uses the exact same mechanic.

So its not working for you. because you can not trait zeal and DH together? At least make the point that this is actually only a valid for our lost honor, scepter or sword damage trait.

I get (now) what you are saying. However I do not agree with you.
- The 3% are a non issue
- The lost honor 10% are not really an issue since you wouldnt spec that traitline if you would go for a high dps build anyway. if it was still there you probably would go for DH anyways. if you are not running shout honor is waste. (which is a whole different story)
- scepter trait has seen as much game play as spirit weapons. It actually benefits from DH because of the additional 10% damage modifier in there. IF you want to play scepter DH will be the go to traitline for dps builds. as it can provide a 35% damage multiplier alone.

So all in all we lost the 10% sword mastery, which only applies IF you use these weapons (which however would be likely for sword). That is an issue. but instead of embracing a traitline that can add 25% damage modifiers to a burst with any weapon, you gripe about a 3% damage nerf.

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

DH offers an easy to maintain 10% damage modifier across all weapon sets. which other line does that?

Zeal did.

But then lol nerfed.

exactly. which would make DH actually the got to DPS line in conjunction with Zealot’s Aggression and Dulled Senses. you can expect a steady 10%+5% damage increase. heck get 50% condiduration in and we are looking at 20% with a little ramp up time.

yes the minors are questionable in function and placement. But the traitline offers a definite dps option esepcially if you are not running GS – with a very good GM Trait that helps.

@ Karl:
looking at other classes and I get the feeling some of their devs tend to get a little overboard with the chance of getting nerfs later on. You seem to me like a guy that wants to avoid that. however sometimes its good to aim a little higher to land where you want. So I am okay with tiny steps. How about making hunters fortification covnert condis into boons. ;-)

If you want a power build I suggest this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR5dnkICVDhlDBmCBEEhjAi6utRQGYDgH4NzJ4DGhA-TFSBwAFV+hT9nIPBQJ4t9HSpZAlOAEm/AcRAIFAgjBA-w

- if you get used to it you can change the focus for torch
- The build works with carrion and sinsiter gear as well. might want to spec into permeating wrath
- radicance it more of the condi line but it will provide you with perma fury and +10% crit damage. On top do not forget to spam your f1 when the dirst mob goes down. you can perma blind the enemies while dishing out the kill strokes.
- If you feel really confident you can swap radiance for zeal and come out full glass here:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR5dnkICVDhlDBmCBEEhj4hqGANQ9e33YIHyp4LGjA-TlRBwAReCgSwiK/ut/o+DKdDIM/B4iAQKAAHDA-w

Retreat in this build is more of a placeholder for if you need the swiftness. you can swap it out for anything you want with the right food. The soldier gear are the training wheels. I would recommend however to not use it in the first place. It forces you to git good faster and really this build is a cookie cutter in SW. It is more important to know the enemies attacks. In some cases you might need scepter for ranged weapons.

Or you can just slot runes of the guardian … with no interal CD and have two stacks per block per second.

Lucentfir.7430:

Defender’s Dogma – This trait isn’t doing much, and it kind of makes you not want to use your Spear of Justice. When you use spear this doesn’t do anything for you and in some cases this trait does not really feel any sort impactful. Suggestion for it to work better would be to have Spear of Justice retain it’s passive after so it feels like a decent minor that does something. The other suggesting for this would be to rework it to refresh Spear of Justice when you block while attaching a ICD to it. Say 15 or 20 second ICD sounds fair. As it stands now though the current state of this trait is pretty much nothing.

I really do not get the hate for defenders dogma. our F3 wil be blocking a ton. Imagine a team fight on point where you will get like 4-6 blocks. toss in permeating wrath and GS #2, a symbol or a trap and F3 turns into a AOE burn burst while you and your teammates are protected. In general it will proc the passiv more often. why is that bad?

yes it makes you not want to use SoJ but that is actually a problem with the activ of SoJ. Its just not worthwhile at the moment. It does nothing special. Burn and vurnability and a 10% damage boost for 6 seconds .. to miss out on passiv burn and cripple procs for 14secs?

It will get strong with virtues and radiance when it is on a 17 sec CD and applies Pbaoe blind. but in itself its not really impressiv for our key mechanic.

I am looking forward to defenders dogma + F3

DH offers an easy to maintain 10% damage modifier across all weapon sets. which other line does that?

Hum …
so LB sucks because it has lower dps then our highest single target dps weapon/combo?

I have zero problems with shield #5 as it is now. #4 is wahts boterhing me. the protection is just so marginal that it is just not worth it. Changing the buff or adding 4 seconds resistance would fix shield imo.

Not every weapon has to be perfect for every game mode.

In Before: the following build is not viable for PVP, WVWVW and has issues in Dungeons as well. I think it is a good example why Dragonhunter can be fun but also shows the obvious flaws.

Lets begin:
With the upcoming changes to DH there are some nice high damage combos that will be fun and devestating in open world pve. Yet in executing the flaws of some traits become visable.

’The Build:*
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJASTnsAB9ChtCB+7AkdilAiSu7L/13KAy23MLBfwJE-TlRBABRcJAua/R5He6CA4JAQp6PmpEkUARM1C-w

It was my attempt to create a build that uses SoJ and get as much damage modifiers as possible as well as bow and at least one trap.

Rotation:

Dragons Maw >
> move back to take advantage of pure of sight (lol) >
>pull a group of 5 enemies in the trap >
> just before the trap snaps LB#4
> mobs get pulled
> activate SoJ (hit all of them – not actually planable in the huddle) recieve retaliation
> SYS (optional)
> LB #2
> LB #3
> F3 (if needed for protection or UA refresh)
> LB #5
> LB #2

This should down everything in the trap.
After you F1 you will benefit from the following damage modifers for 6 seconds:

+ 20 % Unsceathed Contender
+ 10% Radiant Power
+ 10% Big game Hunter
+ 10% Pure of Sight
+ 10% Zealots Aggression
+ 10 % Rune of the scholar
+ 7% Power of Virtues
+ 5% Sigil of Force

so in total 82%
these Modifiers are applied to two hits that are essentially two mighty blows if deflecting shot blocks something (which in HoT wil always be the case)

Now here comes the dumbest thing ever. Even though this is a straight up power build Big Game Hunter makes no sense. In this build it would also be more beneficial to keep SoJ on passiv and gain the retaliation from SYS anways since it also adds the 7% damage modifier

Even without Permeating Wrath the rotation will grant 15 hits on each target and would cause 15 burn stacks on every mob in the trap. Dulled Senses that will give basically the same amount of Vurnability as Big Game Hunter. Traiting Permeating Wrath would increase the burn and vurnability to 20 stacks. The damage gain though burn (without Condi damge) comes close to outways then the loss of the remaining 5% damage modifier benefit from BGH. It might get interesting if you can stack more SOJ. In group play enemies tend to have 25 stacks of viurnability anyways.

So BGH and SoJ need some serious additon to make them useful even in non high end competitive sceanrios. I would vote for a flip skill that pulls in all effected enemies (900 range) and cause 5 2s stacks of burn. (this might be a tad OP considering you can pull them through a purging flames twice. Yet it would make traps a lot more useful. since you have a destinctive means to pull the enemy in. I vote for voice acting “Get over here”.

This would make SOJ a signiture skill for DH.

Brutaly.6257:

Some might find the LB to be fun but its not in any way or form competitive due to the relative strength of the other traitlines, valor, virtues, radiance and honor in particular.

This is true. unfortunately true.

I like the idea. But ohhhh noo without traps we have to rename the Elite Sepc because Dragonhunter wouldnt be fitting… well you cant have it all.

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

Berserker has far more potential than Dragonhunter ever will.

said the person that told everyone when burn stacking was anounced, that condi guards will suck.

I said that condi guard is a gimmick, actually, which it is. It just happens to be somewhat effective currently because of burning being too strong of a condition. It has nothing to do with the actual build.

Was just a stupid jab.
But saying that the performance of a condition doesnt have anything to Do with a build is incorrect. It makes or brakes trait and utility choices.

In burn gets nerfed some of them will not See as much play.

I think some of you need to look up what redundant means

I created a retaliation/condi build once. its some fun in WvWvW when your retal hit for 500+ damage especially if you use it with litaney of wrath. If you want to be seriou sabout it I would recommend not relying on signet for the retaliation. going for a shout build and some extra boon duration. will be plenty. also virtues in combination with radiance is a far better retal generator then anything else.

to make full use of retal you need to soak up damage. the hp in you build is way too low for that. Dire should be the gear of chocie and radiant retaliation the catalyst. you can pump your condi damage up to 3000 for 650 retal a pop. add in burns for 600 damage and you got an idea.

the build you posted is not good at all.

Perikittenor.1892:

Problem with a melee weapon combined with Dragonhunter, is a missed out or wasted damage / traits. Not saying it will not work, but something working is not the same as being good.

a lot of damage traits are conditional. The ones that are harder to maintain are however heigher. I think a lot lesse people would have a porblem with the trait if it was 20%. There are numerous examples of minors that only give benefit in certain situations. other then that DH can provide a steady 10%+ another 15% short duration damage modifier that will also burn and cripple. That is not as bad as you make it out to be.

you can actually create a reasonable combo of a total of 85% damage modifiers on longbow at 600 +range.

maybe our F2 should have been a 700 yards backwards retreat (wings of salvation) still rooting the target.

Perikittenor.1892:

The problem could be compared with the scepter trait being placed in Zeal.
Sure it works as your other weapon can have symbol, but while you are using the scepter itself all those minor are being wasted and potentially a GM trait as well.

Absolutely. That is the reason why I always feel torn when choosing complementing traitlines. You basically go in a traitline for 1 sometimes 2 specifics Trait and the otheres are more or less gap closeres. honor and valor are a perfect example. radiance has it too if you do not want to go burn guard.

personally I think Symbolic Avanger should create a Symbol of swiftness on dodge (in and out of combat) with a 10sec CD. This would be awsome and could also help uns with the swiftness issue.

Black Box.9312:

Berserker has far more potential than Dragonhunter ever will.

said the person that told everyone when burn stacking was anounced, that condi guards will suck.

This has been discussed lengthly. no need for a new thread. add it to the feedback thread please.

works well.
personally I also run sinsiter but with medi utilites. Port in with kittenite conditions + traited and medi heal works well to dish out fast damage and many stacks.

I run this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJAWRnkIClDhVDBmCBEEhj4h6uvTaOUDgtsAypYLOjA-TxhFABafJAA4JAEs6Pst/wwK/6VXQVKBJFwdDrA-e

adding in communal defense and zeal is also pretty effectiv to get a hugh damage burst and many aoe hits. however it will cost you radiance which is not that bad imo because you can run kindled zeal. to make the mos of it: if you open up with Ji and smite condition and have aegis on you can look at the CD of smite condition (16s). if its ready again you know communal defense is back up to at which point you can activate retreat or f3 if needed and enough targets are there. sigil of fire is very important since it adds hits twords f1 passiv. sigil of mischief does also 4 hits and they have more range then geomency or hydromancy which would be fine too. Rune of the mad king are for the #6 effect whcih will cause 3 birds to swoop down, everyone delivering 16 hits to a target. so essentially this could cause 16 stacks of burn on three targets close to each other.

Avit.3165:

Go check Rev traits. Rev can be build to be better Guardian then any real Guardian, with the right gear set Rev will be more useful.
Basically, Anet sacrifice Guardian to find spot for the Revenant, alot of the skills and traits they give to the Rev should be given to the Guardian long time ago.
DH its a joke, joke which was requested by many PvE players on this forum, and now even they dont laugh to this joke.

Be careful what you wish.

I think it will be that way. yes rev can not do all things at once but for most pve encounters you can simply switch your stances and b extremely versetile for any encounter while your teammates can focus on dps or close the gaps you will not fill for the next battle.

dace.8019:

Fuji.7021:

I agree with you. Not only that, the DH is by far the most boring class specialization I’ve played. Not sure how Arenanet didn’t catch this.

High-five.

There’s a couple of things I’d cherry pick off DH to put somewhere else if I could but I won’t take the whole spec not because it’s flawed (which it is), weak (which it is), off-piste for the Guardian (which it is) but because it’s boring and unfulfilling in equal measure.

that really is a matter of perception. I find Berserker and Dare Devil extremely dull. ther is really nothing new to the class.

Mesmer and Reaper are really cool but I think reaper might get dull fast as well.

I do not know if I am a pro bunker player but that is basically all I play in pvp.
I also tend to run goofy setups like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAW5el8AhahYrQwYIQQEHJE1dZDgDA3AhQKknh/LAB-TJBGABPXGAgLCwBPBgU2fAA

This build was actually an accident because (took the wrong amulet) but it turned out that in many matches the high vit was perfect against hybrids of condi and dps. howver i created it to securely pump out my heal and staff #4. hollowed ground is questionable here but in team fights it easily pulses for around 2k healing in addition to providing a lot of stability to hold points secure stomps. if you go cleric you can not use it though you need the extra condi removal.

more improtantly however against the classes you mentioned it would work with either amulet. With this build I need to be focused by at least two to give me any sweat regardless if they are full dps or full condi. the cleanse + the vit is enough to hold out.

I really like the spike attitude of the build for your team. helps a lot to take down eles or other bunkers that feel to confident.

the shield is needed to give you breathing room or to push others of point. focus works too but I got enough selfish stuff in that build.

Also important: if ou encounter these clases one on one you should ping the map
I normly also prepare a chat massage and if I think it will get tough i just double tap enter.

Although I am a strong defender of DH and want it to work out Revenant is tempting.

Ragnarox.9601:

Jerus.4350:

Did rev get on demand Aegis in different forms? If not I think we’re good

For PVE and WvW I doubt we’ll ever be considered a bad option, not optimal in PVE maybe but we’re already sitting there, but surely nice to have.

For tPVP /shrug, as far as I understood we already weren’t an optimal selection.

Either way we’re a solid profession with many strengths, it won’t ever be an issue IMO.

Aegis is overrated. 1 block on 50+ sec cd is bad.

Guards are slowly replaced by Revenants which are straight upgrade to us.

that is true because renewd focus, retreat, courgous return, communal defense, fragements of faith and pure of voice which converts burn to aegis were magically removed from the game to support this argument.

Hunter.4783:

PVE zerg events? GS and staff reign supreme
PVE zerg bosses? Why waste a traitline for longbow when scepter focus is FAR superior
PVE Solo questing/events? scepter/focus and GS or Sword/focus and Scepter/torch for hybrid builds are simply FAR stronger
WvW? Longbow is a death sentence…unless you are outzerging/snowballing the enemy team, and at that point, running around naked with a lvl 1 blue staff is equally as effective….and end up tagging more players too
Dungeons? Why would ANYONE even CONSIDER longbow and DH over a plethora of builds involving a combination of our traitlines which again are stronger. And being 1200 range pretty much puts you out of PS warrior might stacking range
sPvP? ahahaha…haha…haha is that a joke?

sadly this is true. I have fun with the longbow but other options are stronger.
It might feel different with the increased damage on #2 + #3 and a high projectile velocity. I think LB has a chance to become viable when it forces the enemy in melee range. to achieve that it hast hit like a truck from afar.

Misguided.5139:

Asmodal.6489:

Misguided.5139:

The traps aren’t the issue, though I’d like the bleed trait back. I’d rather keep using scepter/torch than longbow.

what is the issue then?

I don’t know. Maybe it’s just me wanting a change. I was expecting more SOMETHING. A new damaging condition to play with. Some method of applying conditions other than Justice. It isn’t that DH is awful for condition builds, but outside of maybe working a trap into the build, there’s not much reason to.

Understand that I was really looking forward to DH, unlike many. The name didn’t bother me. Heck, I bought the Dwayna LB skin to use on my Guardian. Now I’m just not feeling it. There are too many other shiny new things out there that are a lot more fun.

Well I understand. i do not think that trap are all terrible. tehy are just not interesting enough. Any build I come up with has at max one trap. They need to become more awsome for sure.

What enjoyed with DH was a really glassy LB/Staff build that completely focuses in killing tuff at range and keeping it there. this is a completely different playstyle and it was not easy to get used to but it is extremely effectiv in HoT where I see people dieing to single veteran mobs all the time -whcih would never happen in old maps.

Jerus.4350:

Did rev get on demand Aegis in different forms? If not I think we’re good

revenant can definitely bee seen as a competitor for boon distribution, healing, condi cleanse and what not but guard axcels at aegis and stability.

yes rev can push out stability but in hard content max stability uptime will be desirable imo. guards can actively prevent 3 hits on every teammate, add in communal defense, you get a fourth. we can do pretty much everythin a revenenant can do but with longer CD which imo is the key factor here. I think however that everyone needs to consider that also rev has to make a choice you cannot have everything at once in a fight.

Again we are talking here about minmax situations which are generally posionous for any community. I think we will be looking at more verstile ways to beat content and that is a good thing.

Black Box.9312:

snip

read all of it and I respect that time you invest in the matter. I understand your position but it still derives purely from a competetive and minmaxing perspective.

Your rethorical apporach is note worthy yet you keep generalizeing things too much. yes you can dodge traps. with two of our traps that will not matter at all. anyone who dodges in LJ or PoB just wasted a dodge. you can dodge in the heal trap whoopdidoo the enemy is not blinded. … you still get you heal. With test of faith you lose the inital damage but the swords are there. you can not completly evade over a trap if you do not pixel excatly know wher its at.
you make it seem that all traps are totally made useless by one dodge which is not true. people read it repeat it and thats that.

you have lots of control over the battlefield. why to people dodge WW? because it hurts. people tend to avoid red circles and taek detours. people can be knocked back or pulled. herding a player into your trap is skillful play. will it work on pro player. maybe not but maybe it will. the question then remains is it worth it. If the trap would read something like “effected palyers are downed” you would slot that trap because it is strong. In the end that desides if a utility gets slotted. Look at purging flames. before the condition revamp it hardly saw any play. know there are meta builds that run them.

Your arguement to look at how traps are not used at the moment lacks because of just that. If the traps were stronger more effectiv they would see gameplay. Projecting your frustration on the mechanic itself is because you dislike the effect is unispired. Trap rangers are a thing.

Also who says that skills need to be applicable everywhere? whos rule is this? that is your opinion. you can look at any class and find skills and utilites that are rarely or never used. I give you that however that guard has probably the most of those to begin with (singets, SW, sanctuary, MI – not even talking about traits). Still WoR is a great example. by your logic this skill should be removed. because its not applicable in scenarios where your enemy does not use projectiles. No people like it because in some situations it is awsome. that should be the goal for traps. make them awsome – the mechanic is not the problem.

your NBA example failed because its not about making the rules so a 5 year old can score. mo one said that. its about keeping the hoop where it is but acknowledging that not everybody is lebron james and that most do not even aspire to be.

so yes you are not lying. but your glass is definetly half empty.

Nike.2631:

So who did either BWE with Runes of the Trapper? or Traveler?

wanted to and had everything prepared but they did not copy the bank again like I thought they would.